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MichellesKiddos 05:47 AM 07-27-2011
Ok, so I've already posted before about this dcg who is now 7 months old (the old post was about her only coming a total of 5 times the entire month and she cries the whole time she is here). Anyways, the past two weeks, dcm drops her off on days that she doesn't even have on the schedule (the first time she did it I didn't have any other kids that morning and she dropped her off at 6:15am..needless to say she sounded the 'dog' alarm when she knocked on the door! The second time being today, she dropped her off this morning at 6:15 again and AGAIN I didn't have her on the schedule). When she dropped her off this morning, dcm says they are switching her to half whole milk and half formula to save money. I told her that she really needs to have more formula until she is 1 because she needs the nutrients from it and suggested they switch to a cheaper brand of formula. She said no to me like it was some unheard of suggestion I used both similac and parents choice..both seem just fine to me! They wouldn't have it on the market if it didn't meet the needs of the child right?! I refuse to switch her to whole milk when she is only 7 months old...just don't know how to say that to dcm. On top of the schedule issues it really has not been a great start to my day
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AnneCordelia 06:04 AM 07-27-2011
7mo on milk? Parents Choice formula is superior in nutrition to cows milk for a 7mo. Could you ask her to discuss this dietary change with her doctor? Perhaps you could ask for a 'doctors note' just to get her into her Drs office to discuss this? At this age milk is so much of their diet.

I think that having her come two days early and without being on the schedule only happened twice because you allowed it to happen once. Did you make a big deal about it? I might have taken her if I had the space, but I would make a big deal about it being a one-time thing because she didn't know the rules. I would make a big deal about her not being scheduled, and therefore I have made other plans for the group today. I would make sure she knew to call first and not show up unexpected. Whew! That's nuts to just show up at someone's house at that time of day without being expected! That's nervy, IMO. I'm sorry. Does she just not seem to understand how it works?
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Auntie 06:14 AM 07-27-2011
Regarding her dropping off on a NONE schedualed day can you say oh I am sorry I don't have her on the schedual and I am full today. Even though you are not this may be what she needs to realize that this is just not cool to do.

Regarding her and the milk and formula ordeal, that is tough. I never took my child off of formula until a year. Also, know of people who only used formula for a few months then switched to whole milk this child is NOW on Soy milk because he can't tolerate regular milk he would keep throwing it up. He is 2.
So you could maybe let her know of the dangers to giving milk too early.
Could you say as a liscenced provider I am reguired by law to give formula up to a year. ???? Maybe do some research on the early introduction to milk and see what comes up and give her this information.
I take it the parent DOES NOT provide formula for the child while in your care you provide that.
I am kind of torn in regards to this. It seems that this is just another irritant that this parent is tossing in your direction. I guess I would just do as the parent says regarding feeding their child and have her sign a form stating that this is what she wants done so she can't come back to you after the dr tells her this is wrong and this is why her child has now developed milk allergies. I would hate for you to be thrown under the bus. Maybe call it a change in feeding instructions. Have mom fill out how she wants the bottles prepared and sign and date the form.
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MichellesKiddos 06:25 AM 07-27-2011
I don't think she is completely aware of how the whole daycare thing work..but I gave her my handbook and they signed the contract. I need to let her know that #1. today was their second and final offense..should it happen again I will not take her. and #2. I will not give her whole milk to replace her formula, period. My problem is that I need to get a backbone. Even though they are inconveniencing me by bringing the child on an unscheduled day, I can't just turn them away at the door when they have to go to work. UGH! I think I'll end up typing up a letter to send home...don't think it will be possible for me to say all of it to her face..especially with how ticked off I am about it right now.
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wdmmom 07:14 AM 07-27-2011
I would hand a probation letter to DCM at pick up. Tell her that you play the "3 strikes, You're out" game and she's at 2 and explain why.

As for milk at 7 months...without a doctors note, there's no way I would do it. I don't want to be responsible for messing up that babies tummy, gi tract, and intestines! Without a written note from the doctor stating the child's diet, tell her that you have no other alternative but to give solely formula. If she's not providing it and you need to, tell her the rate will be an additional $10 a day.
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MichellesKiddos 07:26 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by wdmmom:
I would hand a probation letter to DCM at pick up. Tell her that you play the "3 strikes, You're out" game and she's at 2 and explain why.

As for milk at 7 months...without a doctors note, there's no way I would do it. I don't want to be responsible for messing up that babies tummy, gi tract, and intestines! Without a written note from the doctor stating the child's diet, tell her that you have no other alternative but to give solely formula. If she's not providing it and you need to, tell her the rate will be an additional $10 a day.
I like this idea. Currently, they are providing the formula and I'm not sure if they would go so far as to say they aren't going to bring it anymore if I say I'm not giving her whole milk...I guess we'll find out! Also, I forgot to mention that they are not bringing baby food AT ALL for her..and they are supposed to be providing it. They claim she doesn't like it..but she eats it just fine for me when I give it to her. She told me today that I can just give her what the other kids are having for lunch...wtf?!?! Seriously?
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Maddy'sMommy 07:34 AM 07-27-2011
I use Parent's Choice and it's fine, and an inexpensive alternative to the brand name formulas. Baby formula is pretty regulated (at least where I am, you don't need to buy the most expensive one)

I have an 11.5 month DCG who is switching to milk this week, only so they can get her on the new stuff before they leave on vacay, incase there are any issues.
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Blackcat31 07:40 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by MichellesKiddos:
I like this idea. Currently, they are providing the formula and I'm not sure if they would go so far as to say they aren't going to bring it anymore if I say I'm not giving her whole milk...I guess we'll find out! Also, I forgot to mention that they are not bringing baby food AT ALL for her..and they are supposed to be providing it. They claim she doesn't like it..but she eats it just fine for me when I give it to her. She told me today that I can just give her what the other kids are having for lunch...wtf?!?! Seriously?
I would supply the formula and the baby food and then attach it to their bill. If mom doesn't want to pay you for it, then she should be bringing it herself if that is what she agreed to when she enrolled. If you are on a USDA food program, providers are required to offer at least one type of formula to infants. The food program also does not allow a 7 month old to be feed cow's milk unless accompanied by a doctor's note or special diet statement.

Another option is to simply call the mom when lunch time nears and have her pick up her child since they didnt bring lunch for her.

If you continue to accommodate her "unscheduled" lifestyle, this mom will just continue to take advantage of you because she can...
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Meyou 07:46 AM 07-27-2011
There is no way in heck I would give a 7 month old whole milk unless they gave me a doctors note with a diagnosis which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist in this situation. It's not safe IMO to switch them that early. Their little bodies can't tolerate cow's milk that early.

As for the early drop offs they KNEW they were going to work since they knew to set an alarm to get up and have their dd to you by 6:15. Therefore they chose to disrespect you and not call. I would turn them away next time and blame your numbers even if you have space. It would be easier to just tell them it's not acceptable but if you want to avoid conflict turning them away might be easier. Or just don't answer the door and when they call say they aren't scheduled.
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Meyou 07:48 AM 07-27-2011
I just read the rest of the posts and she wants the baby eating table food? She sounds like she doesn't have a sweet clue. I don't give solids at all until 8 months. :|
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MichellesKiddos 07:59 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by Meyou:
I just read the rest of the posts and she wants the baby eating table food? She sounds like she doesn't have a sweet clue. I don't give solids at all until 8 months. :|
You got it! She brought a little bowl of canned peas and nothing for breakfast telling me that she can just eat what ever the kids are having...at that point I was still reeling from her even dropping her off and then telling me she is doing half and half with whole milk and then switching her off completely soon.
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Angelwings36 08:16 AM 07-27-2011
I had a friend of mine that completely switched her 5 month old daughter from formula to whole milk, she said she had done the same with her son as well (he is 4 now). I was completely floored. I'm pretty sure it was a 'money' thing for her.
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Meyou 08:24 AM 07-27-2011
When my oldest dd was a baby my aunt told me to mix Carnation instant milk with an infant multivitamin and give that to her instead of formula. That was 12 years ago but I heard her tell the same thing to her pregnant daughter the other day. She said formula was a scam and it was just canned milk with a bit of vitamin throw in. lol
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cheerfuldom 08:29 AM 07-27-2011
yes you can turn her away at the door. she is holding you hostage by using the "I have to work, we can't afford formula, blah blah blah" and laying her problems on you. If she needed you she should have scheduled you, period. You are letting her walk all over you. I personally would not feed a 7 month old whole milk and big kid food. Thats a deal breaker for me and they can just find some other sucker to do their bidding, ain't gonna happen here
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MichellesKiddos 08:43 AM 07-27-2011
Thanks so much for all your input! So I'm going to hand her a letter at pick up regarding these issues, just not really sure how to word it exactly. Any ideas?
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MarinaVanessa 09:34 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by MichellesKiddos:
Thanks so much for all your input! So I'm going to hand her a letter at pick up regarding these issues, just not really sure how to word it exactly. Any ideas?
What exactly are your policies? Do you have a set opening and closing time, do you have a specific schedule for each child or do you do both? Some providers like me have business hours like open 6am-6pm but also require each family to have a set schedule of hours of usually 10 hours a day that they have to stick to like 6am-4pm or 8am-6pm and can't bring their child other than within those times. If they have a schedule that changes or rotates etc. businesses usually put the schedules up 2 weeks in advance. It's a good idea to require them to give you their schedule 2 weeks in advance and then stick to them and then give them a consequence like turning them away or having to pay an additional fee if they show up on a day or time that they aren't "scheduled" for. Do you have something like this?

What are your meal policies? Do you have a meal policy? If not you should think about adding one otherwise the parents will think that you will be ok with doing whatever they choose to have you do. I suggest something like following the food program guidelines even if you're not on the food program to prevent a lot of these meal issues.

I ask because it'll be easier for people to help you with your letter and give you ideas with this information. It's a little hard to write a blind letter KWIM? If you don't have some of the above policies or if your policies that you do have need to be expanded then maybe instead of writing the DCP a letter you should instead be giving a notice of policy addition and/or changes to all of your DCF's. Quote your policies and maybe I can help you better
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Blackcat31 09:34 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by Angelwings36:
I had a friend of mine that completely switched her 5 month old daughter from formula to whole milk, she said she had done the same with her son as well (he is 4 now). I was completely floored. I'm pretty sure it was a 'money' thing for her.
When my DS was about 6.5 months old, I switched him to whole milk. For us it had nothing to do with money. Granted that was almost 20 years ago and the options we have now for specialized formulas did not exist, but he also had several teeth and was eating (regular food) with utensils and drinking from a cup on his own at that same age so...

I know the guidelines say to do things alot differently now than they did then and it was my child versus a daycare child but my DS is healthy and has no medical issues so I am just saying....
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MichellesKiddos 09:46 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
What exactly are your policies? Do you have a set opening and closing time, do you have a specific schedule for each child or do you do both? Some providers like me have business hours like open 6am-6pm but also require each family to have a set schedule of hours of usually 10 hours a day that they have to stick to like 6am-4pm or 8am-6pm and can't bring their child other than within those times. If they have a schedule that changes or rotates etc. businesses usually put the schedules up 2 weeks in advance. It's a good idea to require them to give you their schedule 2 weeks in advance and then stick to them and then give them a consequence like turning them away or having to pay an additional fee if they show up on a day or time that they aren't "scheduled" for. Do you have something like this?

What are your meal policies? Do you have a meal policy? If not you should think about adding one otherwise the parents will think that you will be ok with doing whatever they choose to have you do. I suggest something like following the food program guidelines even if you're not on the food program to prevent a lot of these meal issues.

I ask because it'll be easier for people to help you with your letter and give you ideas with this information. It's a little hard to write a blind letter KWIM? If you don't have some of the above policies or if your policies that you do have need to be expanded then maybe instead of writing the DCP a letter you should instead be giving a notice of policy addition and/or changes to all of your DCF's. Quote your policies and maybe I can help you better


I only have one infant, so as far as feeding policies regarding infants, no I don't have anything. I've only been doing this for about a year and a half so I haven't run into this issue before. I don't think writing a ammendment for all of the parents would be very conducive at this point in time though, because it doesn't affect any of them. (I will, however, be adding it into the new handbook at the beginning of the year. Everyone gets new handbooks at the beginning of each year as a sort of refresher of sorts)
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Country Kids 09:48 AM 07-27-2011
I always think what did they do in the days before formula? That actually wasn't to long ago-may 30-40 years ago. We all came out ok and I know not every child was breastfeed and also children were put on real table food much earlier than today. Kids didn't eat processed foods for their first foods so maybe that is why they are so addicted to it today and also another reason there are bigger children.
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MarinaVanessa 09:51 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
When my DS was about 6.5 months old, I switched him to whole milk. For us it had nothing to do with money. Granted that was almost 20 years ago and the options we have now for specialized formulas did not exist, but he also had several teeth and was eating (regular food) with utensils and drinking from a cup on his own at that same age so...

I know the guidelines say to do things alot differently now than they did then and it was my child versus a daycare child but my DS is healthy and has no medical issues so I am just saying....
I know what you mean and I do think that every parent has a right to do as they please with their children at home too, there's so many ways to parent and so many styles out there and no one but the parent has a right to choose what they do for their kids (unless it's unsafe of course). I have an 8mo and I started offering cereal mixed with BM and 1st foods to him at 4mo (while still mainly BF) because BM wasn't satisfying him. He is now eating 2nd foods and even after eating a square jar of babyfood and drinking a 6oz bottle he wants some of whatever we are eating at the table. Of course the difference here between the DCM and I is that I was given these recommendations by my doctor, the DCM probably was not. My son is far from even being "chubby" and I won't give him something off of my plate that he hasn't already tried as baby food first so I get what you're saying.

I think that in this case it is not the providers own child, it is another persons child. If this DCK becomes alergic or has a bad reaction, gets sick etc. there's potential liability on Michelle. The mom can do what she wants at home, I agree, ignorant or not ... but I think that most providers would feel uneasy to take on this responsibility KWIM?
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MarinaVanessa 09:58 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by MichellesKiddos:
I only have one infant, so as far as feeding policies regarding infants, no I don't have anything. I've only been doing this for about a year and a half so I haven't run into this issue before. I don't think writing a ammendment for all of the parents would be very conducive at this point in time though, because it doesn't affect any of them. (I will, however, be adding it into the new handbook at the beginning of the year. Everyone gets new handbooks at the beginning of each year as a sort of refresher of sorts)
I think this is a great idea since, like you said, it doesn't affect your other families. In this case then a letter to this specific DCM does make better sense. What about your attendance policy? Like I said before, I'm just asking to read your specific policies because it's hard to write a letter without knowing your specific policy. I wouldn't want to write something that contradicts your current policy etc. since my policies are probably different than yours. I started with a simple 2 page contract and ended up with an 8 page (front and back) contract and a 27 page handbook (front and back) from changing and adding things over the years because of one issue or another
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Blackcat31 10:08 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I know what you mean and I do think that every parent has a right to do as they please with their children at home too, there's so many ways to parent and so many styles out there and no one but the parent has a right to choose what they do for their kids (unless it's unsafe of course). I have an 8mo and I started offering cereal mixed with BM and 1st foods to him at 4mo (while still mainly BF) because BM wasn't satisfying him. He is now eating 2nd foods and even after eating a square jar of babyfood and drinking a 6oz bottle he wants some of whatever we are eating at the table. Of course the difference here between the DCM and I is that I was given these recommendations by my doctor, the DCM probably was not. My son is far from even being "chubby" and I won't give him something off of my plate that he hasn't already tried as baby food first so I get what you're saying.

I think that in this case it is not the providers own child, it is another persons child. If this DCK becomes alergic or has a bad reaction, gets sick etc. there's potential liability on Michelle. The mom can do what she wants at home, I agree, ignorant or not ... but I think that most providers would feel uneasy to take on this responsibility KWIM?
I completely agree!! In response to the OP, I stand by my first post suggesting she follow the food program guidelines and either supply the formula herself or refuse to accept child without the proper supplies..ie. food etc. My response about my own child was directed at Angelwings who was floored that her friend had switched her child to whole milk at such an early age.

In a child care setting, and as a provider, I would never suggest that a provider do anything but what required by both your licensing agency and your food program. I also would NEVER want to assume the liability of doing anything outside of those rules and policies.
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e.j. 10:11 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by MichellesKiddos:
I don't think she is completely aware of how the whole daycare thing work...
If she's new to day care and you think it may be an innocent mistake on her part, I think I'd try explaining verbally how your day care schedule works before I resorted to written warnings. You could start by saying something like, "I think there may have been a misunderstanding about the care schedule you need for dcg. Can we talk about your schedule again? I'm bringing it up because you've showed up a couple of times now when I wasn't expecting you. I've been able to keep your dd both times but I'm afraid you may show up unexpectedly again at some point and I may not be able to care for her......Do we need to revise your contract? If she does it again, then she should get a written warning.

As far as the milk is concerned, if you're on the food program, I'd explain the regulation about formula/milk to her and the reasons for it. (Even if you're not part of the food program, you probably still have to follow USDA guidelines - I know we have to in our state.) If she's insistant on making the change, tell her you need a note from the dr. I had a parent who did the same thing and she actually did bring in a note from her pediatrician. I didn't agree with her decision but as long as I had a note in my files, I decided to view it as her right as a parent to make that decision and not my business. Her son is almost high school age and doing fine, btw.

The food issue is a little more challenging. If you don't belong to the fp, maybe you could either use a food processor to pulverize most of the same foods you serve to the other kids or if it's not convenient for you, explain that and tell her she has to supply enough food for the day if she want the dcg to remain in your care.
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nannyde 10:20 AM 07-27-2011
Good thread regarding "parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing".

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ghlight=anemia


Is the Mom on WIC?


https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ghlight=anemia



Most likely explanation is that she is not getting enough formula cans to cover the child's needs over the month. This begins to happen around the six to seventh month. There is a surplus of formula during the first six months and too little the last six months.

The Mom is either keeping the formula to use when she has the baby (it's easy and it is filling to the baby) and doesn't want to spend money to buy the cans to cover her during day care
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flightlessbird11 10:22 AM 07-27-2011
Originally Posted by AnneCordelia:
7mo on milk? Parents Choice formula is superior in nutrition to cows milk for a 7mo. Could you ask her to discuss this dietary change with her doctor? Perhaps you could ask for a 'doctors note' just to get her into her Drs office to discuss this? At this age milk is so much of their diet.


I totally agree with this.

I think that having her come two days early and without being on the schedule only happened twice because you allowed it to happen once. Did you make a big deal about it? I might have taken her if I had the space, but I would make a big deal about it being a one-time thing because she didn't know the rules. I would make a big deal about her not being scheduled, and therefore I have made other plans for the group today. I would make sure she knew to call first and not show up unexpected. Whew! That's nuts to just show up at someone's house at that time of day without being expected! That's nervy, IMO. I'm sorry. Does she just not seem to understand how it works?
I'd DEFINETELY demand a Dr.'s note if she wanted you to do that. Other wise, I'd tell her that you will continue to give her only formula. Blame it on the state regs. or something if that makes it easier.
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nannyde 10:23 AM 07-27-2011
This is my "baby eating table food young" post:

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...hlight=seizure

If an infant is eating adult food you can have a ton of problems with them. One of the biggest ones is gas pain and loose diarrhea with undigested food. Bouts of that cause diaper rashes and a bunch of full head to toe changes.

I had a nine month old baby years ago who had parents that couldn't afford baby food and wouldn't make it from scratch. They fed her whatever they were having and they were on a processed treat food diet. The poor baby was MISERABLE and they refused to acknowledge that all the bowel issues had anything to do with the diet.

She was also refusing formula because she got so many calories from treats and the nugget food group. Formula and whole foods taste bad to them when they have had high salt, high fat, high sugar foods introduced in their infantcy

I counselled them till I was blue in the face and required them to take her to the doctor for the bowel problems. The day they went to the appointment the kid had a first seizure right in front of the doc during the exam.

That was my last day of caring for her as I don't keep kids with seizure disorders so I never saw how it turned out.

She was sickly plain and simple... the bad bad nutrition surely didn't help.
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MichellesKiddos 10:55 AM 07-27-2011
Wow lots of different questions! Okay, this mom isn't necessarily new as I've had this girl now for 4 months so the whole showing up on unscheduled days thing is new. She isn't on WIC or any kind of assistance..she said it was just cheaper (obviously right?) to switch her to whole milk which is why I suggested a cheaper kind of formula. I am not on the food program at all so what dcm brings is what I get.

I realize that many years ago people did just fine without formula, but nowadays it is recommended by so many pediatricians and so forth that infants are on formula until the age of 1. It's almost like a parent telling me that they are only feeding their child chocolate and ice cream and expecting me to just do it..even though I know it's not good for their child. KWIM?! In my letter I explained the reasons why she needs the formula and what whole milk could potentially do to her system should she switch completely. I also stated that if she wishes for me to give dcg whole milk I will require a Dr.s note stating it is ok.

I don't know that I wouldn't write her up for bringing her unscheduled...and at 615am!...especially considering this is the second occurence in two weeks. I'm not sure how much more of this I really want to handle.
I think that covers em all...whew!
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laundrymom 12:46 PM 07-27-2011
My " sickly " kids are my vegetarian ones, they get all their meat, milk, dairy, and chips and bread from beans, I know soy is healthy but if it takes chemicals to take a bright colored bean into milk or a patty, it can't be better for you than cow milk. Or lean chicken. Jmo.

Originally Posted by nannyde:
This is my "baby eating table food young" post:

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...hlight=seizure

If an infant is eating adult food you can have a ton of problems with them. One of the biggest ones is gas pain and loose diarrhea with undigested food. Bouts of that cause diaper rashes and a bunch of full head to toe changes.

I had a nine month old baby years ago who had parents that couldn't afford baby food and wouldn't make it from scratch. They fed her whatever they were having and they were on a processed treat food diet. The poor baby was MISERABLE and they refused to acknowledge that all the bowel issues had anything to do with the diet.

She was also refusing formula because she got so many calories from treats and the nugget food group. Formula and whole foods taste bad to them when they have had high salt, high fat, high sugar foods introduced in their infantcy

I counselled them till I was blue in the face and required them to take her to the doctor for the bowel problems. The day they went to the appointment the kid had a first seizure right in front of the doc during the exam.

That was my last day of caring for her as I don't keep kids with seizure disorders so I never saw how it turned out.

She was sickly plain and simple... the bad bad nutrition surely didn't help.

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Tags:enforcing policies - consistency, parent - unrealistic expectations, parent - weird requests
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