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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Was Given Details, Now What?
daycare 08:29 AM 11-06-2012
So I have a DCF that is divorced. The mom lives in another state and the DCD lives here. their child is in my care.
On Sunday, the DCM called me wanting to check in on her child. Said that she was concerned about her child due to things that she has been told by her friends that live near DCD, as well as things she felt I needed to know.
I told the DCM that I had no issue giving her updates about DCK, however, that I would not discuss anything to do with her and her ex-husbands relationship.
She tells me that I NEED To know some details about DCD abusing drugs in his past and that the mom fears hes doing them again. She wanted to know what my rules are on releasing the child to him if he does show up under the influence. She said that she is very worried about her child and feels horrible for leaving DCK in DCD care.
I tell her my policy, which is I would not release the child and call the police.
Anyways, I now just don't know what to do with this information....I don't want to say anything to the DCD. I don't even know if it is true or not???
What would you do if you were in my shoes?? Now I am starting to worry...
On Sunday, the DCM called me wanting to check in on her child. Said that she was concerned about her child due to things that she has been told by her friends that live near DCD, as well as things she felt I needed to know.
I told the DCM that I had no issue giving her updates about DCK, however, that I would not discuss anything to do with her and her ex-husbands relationship.
She tells me that I NEED To know some details about DCD abusing drugs in his past and that the mom fears hes doing them again. She wanted to know what my rules are on releasing the child to him if he does show up under the influence. She said that she is very worried about her child and feels horrible for leaving DCK in DCD care.
I tell her my policy, which is I would not release the child and call the police.
Anyways, I now just don't know what to do with this information....I don't want to say anything to the DCD. I don't even know if it is true or not???
What would you do if you were in my shoes?? Now I am starting to worry...
countrymom 08:37 AM 11-06-2012
its all heresay. One parent playing against another. Unless she has solid proof there really isnt anything you can do. Also, if there was a problem why does dad have the child. Obviously there must have been something because they have joint custody. If she feels horrible then why doesn't she go and see her lawyer asap and get an order so he doesn't have custody.
daycare 08:40 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by countrymom:
its all heresay. One parent playing against another. Unless she has solid proof there really isnt anything you can do. Also, if there was a problem why does dad have the child. Obviously there must have been something because they have joint custody. If she feels horrible then why doesn't she go and see her lawyer asap and get an order so he doesn't have custody.
This is what I thought too, however, there was an incident that occurred a few months ago, that does lead me to believe that this is true. I guess the only thing that I can do, is just make sure I pay attention to the DCD when he picks up and wait it out to see if it is hearsay or truth???its all heresay. One parent playing against another. Unless she has solid proof there really isnt anything you can do. Also, if there was a problem why does dad have the child. Obviously there must have been something because they have joint custody. If she feels horrible then why doesn't she go and see her lawyer asap and get an order so he doesn't have custody.
BTW there are no court papers defining custody of the child.
sharlan 08:48 AM 11-06-2012
She is so concerned about the safety of her child that she left the child????
MarinaVanessa 08:51 AM 11-06-2012
Unless YOU have reason to believe that the child is in danger or if YOU have reason to believe that the DCD is under the influence of drugs/alcohol etc. then I would note what DCM said (keep a log about it) and keep doing what you normally do.
Unless you have seen behavior that is suspicious there's nothing that you can do. If DCM has proof that DCD is doing things that he shouldn't be doing then it's up to her to get the ball rolling legally. If her friends see DCD doing drugs etc. then it's up to them to let DCM know so that they can be witnesses for her case. I wouldn't get involved in any of this without a subpeona.
Unless you have seen behavior that is suspicious there's nothing that you can do. If DCM has proof that DCD is doing things that he shouldn't be doing then it's up to her to get the ball rolling legally. If her friends see DCD doing drugs etc. then it's up to them to let DCM know so that they can be witnesses for her case. I wouldn't get involved in any of this without a subpeona.
daycare 08:59 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
She is so concerned about the safety of her child that she left the child????
Sharlan...She is so concerned about the safety of her child that she left the child????
My exact thoughts, but like I said, I really don't know up from down with this whole situation and I wish I was never told anything. I refuse to get involved in this matter in anyway. My responsibility is to provide a safe and healthy environment for their child.
I was told more, but am trying to be discreet about the details of it all.
itlw8 09:14 AM 11-06-2012
by the way you HAVE to release the child to the parent even if he is fall down drunk... You can try to delay him and call the police but if he wants to take the child you have to let him or you can be charged with kidnapping.
If you think this will happen write down the description of his car and license number so you can pass on the information.
If you think this will happen write down the description of his car and license number so you can pass on the information.
seebachers 09:17 AM 11-06-2012
Yep exactly what was said up above...you can be charged with kidnapping
daycare 09:21 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
by the way you HAVE to release the child to the parent even if he is fall down drunk... You can try to delay him and call the police but if he wants to take the child you have to let him or you can be charged with kidnapping.
If you think this will happen write down the description of his car and license number so you can pass on the information.
this is not true.... If I release the child, then I could be charged for endangering the child's life. I am to call the police and if they tell me to release the child, then i have no choice...by the way you HAVE to release the child to the parent even if he is fall down drunk... You can try to delay him and call the police but if he wants to take the child you have to let him or you can be charged with kidnapping.
If you think this will happen write down the description of his car and license number so you can pass on the information.
sharlan 09:30 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
by the way you HAVE to release the child to the parent even if he is fall down drunk... You can try to delay him and call the police but if he wants to take the child you have to let him or you can be charged with kidnapping.
If you think this will happen write down the description of his car and license number so you can pass on the information.
Fine, have me arrested for kidnapping. I'll take the risk vs allowing a child to get into a car with a drunk driver. What police officer in this country is going to arrest me for kidnapping? If the parent called the police, that parent is more apt to be arrested for public intoxication.by the way you HAVE to release the child to the parent even if he is fall down drunk... You can try to delay him and call the police but if he wants to take the child you have to let him or you can be charged with kidnapping.
If you think this will happen write down the description of his car and license number so you can pass on the information.
daycare 09:38 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Fine, have me arrested for kidnapping. I'll take the risk vs allowing a child to get into a car with a drunk driver. What police officer in this country is going to arrest me for kidnapping? If the parent called the police, that parent is more apt to be arrested for public intoxication.
im right with you sharlan... I was told by my licensing that this is what I am supposed to do if someone shows up in this state..... No way in heck is that child going out that door with someone under the influence of anything.....Fine, have me arrested for kidnapping. I'll take the risk vs allowing a child to get into a car with a drunk driver. What police officer in this country is going to arrest me for kidnapping? If the parent called the police, that parent is more apt to be arrested for public intoxication.
littlemissmuffet 09:41 AM 11-06-2012
Legally you do have to release a child to parent no matter what the circumstances are, unless there is a court order stating not to. I would just call the police as soon as the child/parent left.
I understand that's a difficult place to be in, but being arrested puts your own family and career on the line.
Anyways, OP, I would simply ignore the information you were given because you don't even know if it's true or not. I would tell the mom that you will only discuss matters that are directly related to the child, NOTHING having to do with the mom, or all communication will end.
YOU need to make your own informed decisions about a child's safety... not based on what a (possibly disgruntled) ex says.
If the mom was so worried, what is she doing living in another state?
I understand that's a difficult place to be in, but being arrested puts your own family and career on the line.
Anyways, OP, I would simply ignore the information you were given because you don't even know if it's true or not. I would tell the mom that you will only discuss matters that are directly related to the child, NOTHING having to do with the mom, or all communication will end.
YOU need to make your own informed decisions about a child's safety... not based on what a (possibly disgruntled) ex says.
If the mom was so worried, what is she doing living in another state?
sharlan 09:47 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Legally you do have to release a child to parent no matter what the circumstances are, unless there is a court order stating not to. I would just call the police as soon as the child/parent left.
I understand that's a difficult place to be in, but being arrested puts your own family and career on the line.
Anyways, OP, I would simply ignore the information you were given because you don't even know if it's true or not. I would tell the mom that you will only discuss matters that are directly related to the child, NOTHING having to do with the mom, or all communication will end.
YOU need to make your own informed decisions about a child's safety... not based on what a (possibly disgruntled) ex says.
If the mom was so worried, what is she doing living in another state?
There is no way I am going to allow a child in my care to leave with a drunk individual. I would call the police and let them deal with it. I can just about guarantee that no cop is going to arrest me prior to arresting the drunk parent. I can guarantee that allowing a child to get into a car with a drunk driver that ended up getting into an accident is going to cost me. The other parent is going to sue me for allowing it to happen, licensing is going to come in and demand to know why I let the child leave, etc...Legally you do have to release a child to parent no matter what the circumstances are, unless there is a court order stating not to. I would just call the police as soon as the child/parent left.
I understand that's a difficult place to be in, but being arrested puts your own family and career on the line.
Anyways, OP, I would simply ignore the information you were given because you don't even know if it's true or not. I would tell the mom that you will only discuss matters that are directly related to the child, NOTHING having to do with the mom, or all communication will end.
YOU need to make your own informed decisions about a child's safety... not based on what a (possibly disgruntled) ex says.
If the mom was so worried, what is she doing living in another state?
littlemissmuffet 11:14 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
There is no way I am going to allow a child in my care to leave with a drunk individual. I would call the police and let them deal with it. I can just about guarantee that no cop is going to arrest me prior to arresting the drunk parent. I can guarantee that allowing a child to get into a car with a drunk driver that ended up getting into an accident is going to cost me. The other parent is going to sue me for allowing it to happen, licensing is going to come in and demand to know why I let the child leave, etc...
I know what you are saying, but you are not legally obligated (or allowed) to keep the child from leaving - you ARE legally obligated to report it, however. There is no way I am going to allow a child in my care to leave with a drunk individual. I would call the police and let them deal with it. I can just about guarantee that no cop is going to arrest me prior to arresting the drunk parent. I can guarantee that allowing a child to get into a car with a drunk driver that ended up getting into an accident is going to cost me. The other parent is going to sue me for allowing it to happen, licensing is going to come in and demand to know why I let the child leave, etc...
I would never have a confrotation with a drunk (or otherwise under the influence) parent while any child was present - that's an incredibly dangerous situation to put yourself and children into.
How would safely stop a drunk parent from taking the child????
sharlan 11:23 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I know what you are saying, but you are not legally obligated (or allowed) to keep the child from leaving - you ARE legally obligated to report it, however.
I would never have a confrotation with a drunk (or otherwise under the influence) parent while any child was present - that's an incredibly dangerous situation to put yourself and children into.
How would safely stop a drunk parent from taking the child????
To be honest, I would have to play it out as it happened. I THINK what I would do is not let the parent in the house, step outside with the parent (my door automatically locks), and suggest that either someone else come pick up the child or I will drive the child home. If the parent persisted, I would call the police and have them come deal with it.I know what you are saying, but you are not legally obligated (or allowed) to keep the child from leaving - you ARE legally obligated to report it, however.
I would never have a confrotation with a drunk (or otherwise under the influence) parent while any child was present - that's an incredibly dangerous situation to put yourself and children into.
How would safely stop a drunk parent from taking the child????
My one an only experience with a drunk parent was over 20 yrs ago. The father showed up drunk, the mother's best friend was there to pick up her child. She took one look at the father and told him she was taking the child home with her. He got back in his car and left.
I told both parents the next day that I would not have let the child leave with the parents. Both said they understood, even the father.
littlemissmuffet 11:29 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
To be honest, I would have to play it out as it happened. I THINK what I would do is not let the parent in the house, step outside with the parent (my door automatically locks), and suggest that either someone else come pick up the child or I will drive the child home. If the parent persisted, I would call the police and have them come deal with it.
My one an only experience with a drunk parent was over 20 yrs ago. The father showed up drunk, the mother's best friend was there to pick up her child. She took one look at the father and told him she was taking the child home with her. He got back in his car and left.
I told both parents the next day that I would not have let the child leave with the parents. Both said they understood, even the father.
You likely wouldn't realize that the parent was under the influence until after s/he was inside your home. I realize you have no dealt with many drunk/drugged up people before, but you need to realize that while in that state they are obviously not using their best judgement - many are not going to simply be like "Oh okay" once you tell them someone else needs to pick up the child. Many are going to get really upset that you are keeping their child from them, many would/could get violent - and then what are you going to do?To be honest, I would have to play it out as it happened. I THINK what I would do is not let the parent in the house, step outside with the parent (my door automatically locks), and suggest that either someone else come pick up the child or I will drive the child home. If the parent persisted, I would call the police and have them come deal with it.
My one an only experience with a drunk parent was over 20 yrs ago. The father showed up drunk, the mother's best friend was there to pick up her child. She took one look at the father and told him she was taking the child home with her. He got back in his car and left.
I told both parents the next day that I would not have let the child leave with the parents. Both said they understood, even the father.
My husband is 250 pounds and carries a knife everywhere he goes - he's a teddybear, but you wouldn't know it by looking at him. He's not a drinker, but if he was and he was stupid enough to try and pick out child up while drunk or under the influence and you told him no... well, honestly, I'm not sure you'd see another day.
I don't think you realize how incredibly dangerous it can be when dealing with someone who is intoxicated and being told they can't have access to their kid.
Blackcat31 11:56 AM 11-06-2012
You HAVE to release the child because you are not qualified or trained to decide if a person is under the influence of anything.
Odd behavior could be caused by any number of things... such as a reaction to medications, lack of sleep, low blood sugar, or any other myriad of medical issues.
@Daycare, your first mistake in this situation was letting the mom tell you anything that was not directly related to YOUR care of the child. If she has "heard" things from others about the safety of her child, she needs to be telling CPS or anyone except you.
I know you said you have no issues giving her updates about the child but personally, I wouldn't even go that far as it makes you more involved than you should be....kwim?
If she wants updates about her child then she needs to get them from the other parent. If she wants to see her child, she needs to arrange those visits with the other parent as well.
I realize this mom now lives in another state but unless you packed up her belongings and drove her there, none of that is your issue.
Unless something directly effects how I care for the child then it isn't my business and I don't want to hear it. I am not a therapist, counselor or anything other than a care provider...the rest is confidential info I prefer they not share with me.
Odd behavior could be caused by any number of things... such as a reaction to medications, lack of sleep, low blood sugar, or any other myriad of medical issues.
@Daycare, your first mistake in this situation was letting the mom tell you anything that was not directly related to YOUR care of the child. If she has "heard" things from others about the safety of her child, she needs to be telling CPS or anyone except you.
I know you said you have no issues giving her updates about the child but personally, I wouldn't even go that far as it makes you more involved than you should be....kwim?
If she wants updates about her child then she needs to get them from the other parent. If she wants to see her child, she needs to arrange those visits with the other parent as well.
I realize this mom now lives in another state but unless you packed up her belongings and drove her there, none of that is your issue.
Unless something directly effects how I care for the child then it isn't my business and I don't want to hear it. I am not a therapist, counselor or anything other than a care provider...the rest is confidential info I prefer they not share with me.
daycare 11:59 AM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You HAVE to release the child because you are not qualified or trained to decide if a person is under the influence of anything.
Odd behavior could be caused by any number of things... such as a reaction to medications, lack of sleep, low blood sugar, or any other myriad of medical issues.
@Daycare, your first mistake in this situation was letting the mom tell you anything that was not directly related to YOUR care of the child. If she has "heard" things from others about the safety of her child, she needs to be telling CPS or anyone except you.
I know you said you have no issues giving her updates about the child but personally, I wouldn't even go that far as it makes you more involved than you should be....kwim?
If she wants updates about her child then she needs to get them from the other parent. If she wants to see her child, she needs to arrange those visits with the other parent as well.
I realize this mom now lives in another state but unless you packed up her belongings and drove her there, none of that is your issue.
Unless something directly effects how I care for the child then it isn't my business and I don't want to hear it. I am not a therapist, counselor or anything other than a care provider...the rest is confidential info I prefer they not share with me.
I agree with what you are saying cat.....but as the childs mother, she has every right to know how her child is doing here. She is on the paperwork, I have met her and she is not asking me for anything then to know how her kid is doing. You think that I should not let her know??You HAVE to release the child because you are not qualified or trained to decide if a person is under the influence of anything.
Odd behavior could be caused by any number of things... such as a reaction to medications, lack of sleep, low blood sugar, or any other myriad of medical issues.
@Daycare, your first mistake in this situation was letting the mom tell you anything that was not directly related to YOUR care of the child. If she has "heard" things from others about the safety of her child, she needs to be telling CPS or anyone except you.
I know you said you have no issues giving her updates about the child but personally, I wouldn't even go that far as it makes you more involved than you should be....kwim?
If she wants updates about her child then she needs to get them from the other parent. If she wants to see her child, she needs to arrange those visits with the other parent as well.
I realize this mom now lives in another state but unless you packed up her belongings and drove her there, none of that is your issue.
Unless something directly effects how I care for the child then it isn't my business and I don't want to hear it. I am not a therapist, counselor or anything other than a care provider...the rest is confidential info I prefer they not share with me.
The parents cannot talk without fighting, so she does not get any info from the dad, which is not my problem, but I don't see why I should not let the mom know how her child is doing here.....?? Please advise me on this.....
Blackcat31 12:09 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I agree with what you are saying cat.....but as the childs mother, she has every right to know how her child is doing here. She is on the paperwork, I have met her and she is not asking me for anything then to know how her kid is doing. You think that I should not let her know??
The parents cannot talk without fighting, so she does not get any info from the dad, which is not my problem, but I don't see why I should not let the mom know how her child is doing here.....?? Please advise me on this.....
You are correct, I think she does have a right to know how her child is doing at your house. How he sleeps, eats and plays. NOTHING else. I agree with what you are saying cat.....but as the childs mother, she has every right to know how her child is doing here. She is on the paperwork, I have met her and she is not asking me for anything then to know how her kid is doing. You think that I should not let her know??
The parents cannot talk without fighting, so she does not get any info from the dad, which is not my problem, but I don't see why I should not let the mom know how her child is doing here.....?? Please advise me on this.....
If she needs to know other things, she needs to get it from the dad. I know you said they can't talk without fighting but they would be doing everyone, especially their child, a favor if they both put on their big kid pants and acted like adults.
They are going to have to co-parent (in the same state or from afar) for the next several years and dragging their child's provider/teacher into their personal drama is so NOT cool!
The second she started talking about anything other than the child's eating, napping and educational habits, I would have cut her off and said "Please stop. Please do not put me in the middle. I am a trained professional and if I observe a situation in which I feel your child is in danger, I will call the proper authorities."
Telling you about her ex's past drug use is totally over stepping her boundaries and I would have immediately made some not so positive assumptions about her for trying to tell me such things.
MarinaVanessa 01:23 PM 11-06-2012
Ladies I have been in the situation where I had a parent show up intoxicated.
I am in CA and once a DCP arrived and you could smell the alcohol on him and he was slightly slurring his words. He drove here on his own. I did not allow the child to walk out my door or for the DCP to walk into my home. I asked the DCP to call someone else to pick both him and DCB up and he refused. DCP threatened to call the police, I told him to go ahead and then I myself called the police, then DCM. Police arrived, I explained my side, he explained his side, police told him to call someone to have him and DCB picked up and for someone to drive his car for him (it was obvious that he had been drinking). When DCM and a ride and driver arrived for DCD I released the DCB to the police, they released the child to the DCM (who was ubberly pissed off) and DCD got picked up by a friend. Nothing happened to me.
No one is going to fault you for withholding a child when you think that the child's life and safety could be at risk. Just call the police. If they release the child back to the parent that appeared to be under the influence then at least it's now on them, not you. If you simply keep a child because DCM tells you to then that is a different case altogether. If you have good reason to do so and were acting as a good samaratan then you won't get into any trouble.
I am in CA and once a DCP arrived and you could smell the alcohol on him and he was slightly slurring his words. He drove here on his own. I did not allow the child to walk out my door or for the DCP to walk into my home. I asked the DCP to call someone else to pick both him and DCB up and he refused. DCP threatened to call the police, I told him to go ahead and then I myself called the police, then DCM. Police arrived, I explained my side, he explained his side, police told him to call someone to have him and DCB picked up and for someone to drive his car for him (it was obvious that he had been drinking). When DCM and a ride and driver arrived for DCD I released the DCB to the police, they released the child to the DCM (who was ubberly pissed off) and DCD got picked up by a friend. Nothing happened to me.
No one is going to fault you for withholding a child when you think that the child's life and safety could be at risk. Just call the police. If they release the child back to the parent that appeared to be under the influence then at least it's now on them, not you. If you simply keep a child because DCM tells you to then that is a different case altogether. If you have good reason to do so and were acting as a good samaratan then you won't get into any trouble.
littlemissmuffet 01:33 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Ladies I have been in the situation where I had a parent show up intoxicated.
I am in CA and once a DCP arrived and you could smell the alcohol on him and he was slightly slurring his words. He drove here on his own. I did not allow the child to walk out my door or for the DCP to walk into my home. I asked the DCP to call someone else to pick both him and DCB up and he refused. DCP threatened to call the police, I told him to go ahead and then I myself called the police, then DCM. Police arrived, I explained my side, he explained his side, police told him to call someone to have him and DCB picked up and for someone to drive his car for him (it was obvious that he had been drinking). When DCM and a ride and driver arrived for DCD I released the DCB to the police, they released the child to the DCM (who was ubberly pissed off) and DCD got picked up by a friend. Nothing happened to me.
No one is going to fault you for withholding a child when you think that the child's life and safety could be at risk. Just call the police. If they release the child back to the parent that appeared to be under the influence then at least it's now on them, not you. If you simply keep a child because DCM tells you to then that is a different case altogether. If you have good reason to do so and were acting as a good samaratan then you won't get into any trouble.
I understand where you are coming from... but you are potentially putting the child, yourself and the other daycare children in harm's way by denying a drunk/drugged person their own child. What if he hurt you before you could call the police? What if he lost his mind and hurt everyone in the house? I'm glad that's not the case, but I know of cases where people have been killed over $10 or even A cigarette... we're talking about someone's child. Some people can still be level-headed while intoxicated, while many cannot.Ladies I have been in the situation where I had a parent show up intoxicated.
I am in CA and once a DCP arrived and you could smell the alcohol on him and he was slightly slurring his words. He drove here on his own. I did not allow the child to walk out my door or for the DCP to walk into my home. I asked the DCP to call someone else to pick both him and DCB up and he refused. DCP threatened to call the police, I told him to go ahead and then I myself called the police, then DCM. Police arrived, I explained my side, he explained his side, police told him to call someone to have him and DCB picked up and for someone to drive his car for him (it was obvious that he had been drinking). When DCM and a ride and driver arrived for DCD I released the DCB to the police, they released the child to the DCM (who was ubberly pissed off) and DCD got picked up by a friend. Nothing happened to me.
No one is going to fault you for withholding a child when you think that the child's life and safety could be at risk. Just call the police. If they release the child back to the parent that appeared to be under the influence then at least it's now on them, not you. If you simply keep a child because DCM tells you to then that is a different case altogether. If you have good reason to do so and were acting as a good samaratan then you won't get into any trouble.
We don't know why that parent shows up drunk. What if he was just fired from work and he's really on edge, he went to have some drinks after work to cool off - now you're telling him he can't take his kid (which I do agree, he shouldn't be taking the child) - do you think he's going to just say "Yeah, you're right, I'll call mom to come and get him?" It might work out this way some of the time but it's not going to end this way all of the time.
I wouldn't take the risk. I would call the cops - and you know they'd probably pull the parent over before even getting home.
Like I said, it's a difficult situation to be in!
Blackcat31 01:33 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
Ladies I have been in the situation where I had a parent show up intoxicated.
I am in CA and once a DCP arrived and you could smell the alcohol on him and he was slightly slurring his words. He drove here on his own. I did not allow the child to walk out my door or for the DCP to walk into my home. I asked the DCP to call someone else to pick both him and DCB up and he refused. DCP threatened to call the police, I told him to go ahead and then I myself called the police, then DCM. Police arrived, I explained my side, he explained his side, police told him to call someone to have him and DCB picked up and for someone to drive his car for him (it was obvious that he had been drinking). When DCM and a ride and driver arrived for DCD I released the DCB to the police, they released the child to the DCM (who was ubberly pissed off) and DCD got picked up by a friend. Nothing happened to me.
No one is going to fault you for withholding a child when you think that the child's life and safety could be at risk. Just call the police. If they release the child back to the parent that appeared to be under the influence then at least it's now on them, not you. If you simply keep a child because DCM tells you to then that is a different case altogether. If you have good reason to do so and were acting as a good samaratan then you won't get into any trouble.
You have a valid point MV, but I want to point out that an alcoholic smell of the breath and slurred words are the most common symptoms of low blood sugar for diabetics.Ladies I have been in the situation where I had a parent show up intoxicated.
I am in CA and once a DCP arrived and you could smell the alcohol on him and he was slightly slurring his words. He drove here on his own. I did not allow the child to walk out my door or for the DCP to walk into my home. I asked the DCP to call someone else to pick both him and DCB up and he refused. DCP threatened to call the police, I told him to go ahead and then I myself called the police, then DCM. Police arrived, I explained my side, he explained his side, police told him to call someone to have him and DCB picked up and for someone to drive his car for him (it was obvious that he had been drinking). When DCM and a ride and driver arrived for DCD I released the DCB to the police, they released the child to the DCM (who was ubberly pissed off) and DCD got picked up by a friend. Nothing happened to me.
No one is going to fault you for withholding a child when you think that the child's life and safety could be at risk. Just call the police. If they release the child back to the parent that appeared to be under the influence then at least it's now on them, not you. If you simply keep a child because DCM tells you to then that is a different case altogether. If you have good reason to do so and were acting as a good samaratan then you won't get into any trouble.
When my DH goes really low, if you didn't know that he was diabetic, you woud think he was plastered instead. Also low blood sugar can come on really quickly too so it isn't like he (DH) is even aware it is happening sometimes.
There was recently a case in Texas (?) where a young male driver was tased due to a car accident/issue and the officer said he smelled like alcohol and had slurred speech and when the young man didn't (or couldn't) respond to the police officer, the officer tased him for not complying with his orders.
It was later revealed the young man was a diabetic and had really low blodd sugar thus causing the situation.
daycare 01:46 PM 11-06-2012
Im sure that we all could come up with what if this or that. However, the parents in my daycare are aware that as part of my policy they are agreeing that if I feel that they are not stable enough to transport their child, then I will not release their child to them. SO they gave me this right from day one when they signed up.
If someone showed up and I felt that they could not transport, I would be calling someone on the emergency list to pick up. If an alternate came to pick up, I would be calling CPS right after to investigate. They are able to decide if someone is abusing drugs or not.
If someone showed up and I felt that they could not transport, I would be calling someone on the emergency list to pick up. If an alternate came to pick up, I would be calling CPS right after to investigate. They are able to decide if someone is abusing drugs or not.
Country Kids 01:48 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You have a valid point MV, but I want to point out that an alcoholic smell of the breath and slurred words are the most common symptoms of low blood sugar for diabetics.
When my DH goes really low, if you didn't know that he was diabetic, you woud think he was plastered instead. Also low blood sugar can come on really quickly too so it isn't like he (DH) is even aware it is happening sometimes.
There was recently a case in Texas (?) where a young male driver was tased due to a car accident/issue and the officer said he smelled like alcohol and had slurred speech and when the young man didn't (or couldn't) respond to the police officer, the officer tased him for not complying with his orders.
It was later revealed the young man was a diabetic and had really low blodd sugar thus causing the situation.
Even in this type of case I wouldn't want to release the child. What if the parent passed out at the wheel while driving or was in an accident to slow reaction time. Something doesn't seem right don't release the child!You have a valid point MV, but I want to point out that an alcoholic smell of the breath and slurred words are the most common symptoms of low blood sugar for diabetics.
When my DH goes really low, if you didn't know that he was diabetic, you woud think he was plastered instead. Also low blood sugar can come on really quickly too so it isn't like he (DH) is even aware it is happening sometimes.
There was recently a case in Texas (?) where a young male driver was tased due to a car accident/issue and the officer said he smelled like alcohol and had slurred speech and when the young man didn't (or couldn't) respond to the police officer, the officer tased him for not complying with his orders.
It was later revealed the young man was a diabetic and had really low blodd sugar thus causing the situation.
Blackcat31 02:02 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Even in this type of case I wouldn't want to release the child. What if the parent passed out at the wheel while driving or was in an accident to slow reaction time. Something doesn't seem right don't release the child!
In my state I am NOT allowed to with hold a child from a parent REGARDLESS of what condition they are in. I am to call the police/911 but canNOT keep a child from their parent. No matter what I think. Even in this type of case I wouldn't want to release the child. What if the parent passed out at the wheel while driving or was in an accident to slow reaction time. Something doesn't seem right don't release the child!
This topic is discussed in depth during the interview process so all of my parents know the rules I must follow.
Whether I agree or disagree with the law, I am going to follow it.
MarinaVanessa 02:06 PM 11-06-2012
Even in this case then a person with such extreme low blood sugar levels shouldn't be driving a vehicle either. I personally feel morally obligated to keep the kids safe. If I was to have allowed the child to leave with the father and they got into a wreck around the corner before the police arrived I would be guilt wracked knowing that I could have prevented it.
One of the reasons why I keep my doors locked is so that I can allow/dissalow my clients from coming in and out. I add these policies into my contract and handbook which all of my families are well aware of. If you appear to be under the influence of alcohol/drugs I won't let the child leave. They know this. They know that I will call the police and let them handle the situation. My job and moral duty is to keep these children safe, I know that this is a difficult situation to be in but I do not regret my decision nor would I change it. It's not a decision that everyone should make but I made it having policies in place knowing very well that if I released a child and something happened to that child I would never forgive myself. Had the parent pushed his way in and taken the child then no, I would not have followed him. But he didn't. I simply did not allow him access into my home and when he refused to call for a ride I shut and locked my front door and called the police.
I've actually had this happen twice but the other time the DCP did leave right away (two seperate families, go figure).
One of the reasons why I keep my doors locked is so that I can allow/dissalow my clients from coming in and out. I add these policies into my contract and handbook which all of my families are well aware of. If you appear to be under the influence of alcohol/drugs I won't let the child leave. They know this. They know that I will call the police and let them handle the situation. My job and moral duty is to keep these children safe, I know that this is a difficult situation to be in but I do not regret my decision nor would I change it. It's not a decision that everyone should make but I made it having policies in place knowing very well that if I released a child and something happened to that child I would never forgive myself. Had the parent pushed his way in and taken the child then no, I would not have followed him. But he didn't. I simply did not allow him access into my home and when he refused to call for a ride I shut and locked my front door and called the police.
I've actually had this happen twice but the other time the DCP did leave right away (two seperate families, go figure).
Country Kids 02:07 PM 11-06-2012
Oh, I have to release the child also but would feel horrible in the event something happened.
We had an incident one time in our neighborhood, it took 1 1/2 hours for the police to show up. There were guns involved, tire irons, people chasing others down the street and this was all during childcare hours!!!
So just because you call the police doesn't mean there will be immediate reaction.
We had an incident one time in our neighborhood, it took 1 1/2 hours for the police to show up. There were guns involved, tire irons, people chasing others down the street and this was all during childcare hours!!!
So just because you call the police doesn't mean there will be immediate reaction.
sharlan 02:09 PM 11-06-2012
The following is from my licensing analyst. As we all know, no one is CA agrees on anything (talking about licensing).
The Department would advise you to contact the local authorities in any cases where you feel that the child could be in danger if release to their parent(s).
You should attempt to talk the parent out of taking their due to their state of mind. If you are unable to do so, you should inform the parent of your concerns and let them know that you will be contacting the local authorities. If the parent leave with their child make sure you contact the local authorities and provide them with a detail description.
The Department would advise you to contact the local authorities in any cases where you feel that the child could be in danger if release to their parent(s).
You should attempt to talk the parent out of taking their due to their state of mind. If you are unable to do so, you should inform the parent of your concerns and let them know that you will be contacting the local authorities. If the parent leave with their child make sure you contact the local authorities and provide them with a detail description.
daycare 02:18 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
The following is from my licensing analyst. As we all know, no one is CA agrees on anything (talking about licensing).
The Department would advise you to contact the local authorities in any cases where you feel that the child could be in danger if release to their parent(s).
You should attempt to talk the parent out of taking their due to their state of mind. If you are unable to do so, you should inform the parent of your concerns and let them know that you will be contacting the local authorities. If the parent leave with their child make sure you contact the local authorities and provide them with a detail description.
OMG CA on the same page... I was told something very similar. I was told to talk them into allowing someone else to pick up both.The following is from my licensing analyst. As we all know, no one is CA agrees on anything (talking about licensing).
The Department would advise you to contact the local authorities in any cases where you feel that the child could be in danger if release to their parent(s).
You should attempt to talk the parent out of taking their due to their state of mind. If you are unable to do so, you should inform the parent of your concerns and let them know that you will be contacting the local authorities. If the parent leave with their child make sure you contact the local authorities and provide them with a detail description.
then report it with police or CPS. depending on the need. However, I have to report it.
sharlan 02:23 PM 11-06-2012
I would still do everything in my power to prevent that child from leaving my care. Since my phone is at my front door, I would be on the phone prior to the person getting a car started.
Back to the original question......I would tell both parents that I do not wish to be drug in the middle. I would only tell the mother the facts as to what goes on in my home - eating, sleeping, playing. I would not say a word about anything to do with the dad or his care - bathing, clothing, etc. The mom evidently has enough people doing that.
IMHO, if she was that concerned about the safety and welfare of her child, whe would never have left her in the first place.
Back to the original question......I would tell both parents that I do not wish to be drug in the middle. I would only tell the mother the facts as to what goes on in my home - eating, sleeping, playing. I would not say a word about anything to do with the dad or his care - bathing, clothing, etc. The mom evidently has enough people doing that.
IMHO, if she was that concerned about the safety and welfare of her child, whe would never have left her in the first place.
daycare 02:33 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
I would still do everything in my power to prevent that child from leaving my care. Since my phone is at my front door, I would be on the phone prior to the person getting a car started.
Back to the original question......I would tell both parents that I do not wish to be drug in the middle. I would only tell the mother the facts as to what goes on in my home - eating, sleeping, playing. I would not say a word about anything to do with the dad or his care - bathing, clothing, etc. The mom evidently has enough people doing that.
IMHO, if she was that concerned about the safety and welfare of her child, whe would never have left her in the first place.
I did ask the mom that question and she told me that he has been out of rehab for over a year and has been doing really well. She said that she had to move because it was a job offer that she could not refuse that will soon allow her to come back to see her child every two weeks off and on. So, I really don't know anything to tell you the truth.I would still do everything in my power to prevent that child from leaving my care. Since my phone is at my front door, I would be on the phone prior to the person getting a car started.
Back to the original question......I would tell both parents that I do not wish to be drug in the middle. I would only tell the mother the facts as to what goes on in my home - eating, sleeping, playing. I would not say a word about anything to do with the dad or his care - bathing, clothing, etc. The mom evidently has enough people doing that.
IMHO, if she was that concerned about the safety and welfare of her child, whe would never have left her in the first place.
All I told DCM was that I felt dad was doing a great job and the child is always happy when they arrive and leave to go home at the end of each day...
Willow 02:37 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
She tells me that I NEED To know some details about DCD abusing drugs in his past and that the mom fears hes doing them again. She wanted to know what my rules are on releasing the child to him if he does show up under the influence. She said that she is very worried about her child and feels horrible for leaving DCK in DCD care.
She tells me that I NEED To know some details about DCD abusing drugs in his past and that the mom fears hes doing them again. She wanted to know what my rules are on releasing the child to him if he does show up under the influence. She said that she is very worried about her child and feels horrible for leaving DCK in DCD care.
I'd call bs and would have asked her a single point blank question:
"If you were really concerned, really felt horrible about leaving your child behind.....then why in the H*LL did you do it?"
I would never ever ever......in a million years, not for millions of dollars, not for a fantastic job, or the perfect house, or a stellar man, or even if God himself told me to....leave my child with someone I even suspected was on drugs or might harm them in any way.
Not only has she left her child in his care but she MOVED OUT OF STATE AND LEFT THE CHILD THERE SEEMINGLY PERMANENTLY.
That's disgusting.
No mother who loved their child and thought their child was in any actual danger would EVER do such a thing. She either doesn't love her child, doesn't believe her child is in any danger at all or she's on drugs herself and is trying to stir up massive drama and garner undeserved sympathy.
I think she's lying. I'd be inclined to ask her if she was the one on drugs for behaving the way she has been (or at least that's what I'd be thinking anyway......).
daycare 02:50 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
I'd call bs and would have asked her a single point blank question:
"If you were really concerned, really felt horrible about leaving your child behind.....then why in the H*LL did you do it?"
I would never ever ever......in a million years, not for millions of dollars, not for a fantastic job, or the perfect house, or a stellar man, or even if God himself told me to....leave my child with someone I even suspected was on drugs or might harm them in any way.
Not only has she left her child in his care but she MOVED OUT OF STATE AND LEFT THE CHILD THERE SEEMINGLY PERMANENTLY.
That's disgusting.
No mother who loved their child and thought their child was in any actual danger would EVER do such a thing. She either doesn't love her child, doesn't believe her child is in any danger at all or she's on drugs herself and is trying to stir up massive drama and garner undeserved sympathy.
I think she's lying. I'd be inclined to ask her if she was the one on drugs for behaving the way she has been (or at least that's what I'd be thinking anyway......).
lol...I wish I had half of your backbone willow....lolI'd call bs and would have asked her a single point blank question:
"If you were really concerned, really felt horrible about leaving your child behind.....then why in the H*LL did you do it?"
I would never ever ever......in a million years, not for millions of dollars, not for a fantastic job, or the perfect house, or a stellar man, or even if God himself told me to....leave my child with someone I even suspected was on drugs or might harm them in any way.
Not only has she left her child in his care but she MOVED OUT OF STATE AND LEFT THE CHILD THERE SEEMINGLY PERMANENTLY.
That's disgusting.
No mother who loved their child and thought their child was in any actual danger would EVER do such a thing. She either doesn't love her child, doesn't believe her child is in any danger at all or she's on drugs herself and is trying to stir up massive drama and garner undeserved sympathy.
I think she's lying. I'd be inclined to ask her if she was the one on drugs for behaving the way she has been (or at least that's what I'd be thinking anyway......).
I just declined to say anything to either one of them at all. I copied BC's letter about parents divorcing and will be sending it to both of them.
I really don't know if the mom is stiring the pot or maybe there is some truth there, I just wish I didn't know...........
Angelsj 07:41 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
by the way you HAVE to release the child to the parent even if he is fall down drunk... You can try to delay him and call the police but if he wants to take the child you have to let him or you can be charged with kidnapping.
If you think this will happen write down the description of his car and license number so you can pass on the information.
It doesn't really matter. If a parent is drunk, YOU are placing the child at risk by allowing them to go with someone under the influence, and are on prosecutable ground. by the way you HAVE to release the child to the parent even if he is fall down drunk... You can try to delay him and call the police but if he wants to take the child you have to let him or you can be charged with kidnapping.
If you think this will happen write down the description of his car and license number so you can pass on the information.
Besides, what parent is going to argue this? If they are drunk and you tell them you cannot release the child to them, but are willing to release them to a sober pick up person of their choice..are they really going to argue?
Willow 07:56 PM 11-06-2012
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
It doesn't really matter. If a parent is drunk, YOU are placing the child at risk by allowing them to go with someone under the influence, and are on prosecutable ground.
No you're not.It doesn't really matter. If a parent is drunk, YOU are placing the child at risk by allowing them to go with someone under the influence, and are on prosecutable ground.
What you'd be on prosecutable ground for is being a non-relative, non-custodial individual who is keeping a child from their parent.....aka....kidnapping.
We are not allowed to play judge, jury and executioner simply because we believe something to be amiss. It doesn't matter how obvious it is to us, we don't have that right. Only law enforcement does.
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Besides, what parent is going to argue this? If they are drunk and you tell them you cannot release the child to them, but are willing to release them to a sober pick up person of their choice..are they really going to argue?
Yes.Besides, what parent is going to argue this? If they are drunk and you tell them you cannot release the child to them, but are willing to release them to a sober pick up person of their choice..are they really going to argue?
My ex-husband thinks he's superman when he drinks. That's what being drunk is. It takes you outside of being of sound mind and judgement.
If they're stupid enough to drink and drive in an attempt to go and pick up their child, you best believe they'll do far worse if you judge them and attempt to keep them from taking their child.
That doesn't just put you at risk, but every other child in your home.
Your best bet would be to call law enforcement immediately and have the vehicle make, model, license plate number and physical description of the parent and child available.
If I ever had to do that I'd be terminating to boot.
LK5kids 04:15 AM 11-07-2012
State regualtion states clearly that we are to have an open door policy, that parents can come into the center any time during the day to check on their child-so no locking the door to keep parents out. It also states you have to let the child go with the parent. My center is two blocks from the police station. As that parent and child were going down the steps I'd be calling 911.
littlemissmuffet 06:17 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
It doesn't really matter. If a parent is drunk, YOU are placing the child at risk by allowing them to go with someone under the influence, and are on prosecutable ground.
No, you are not. It ILLEGAL to withhold a child from their parent no matter the circumstances. We have no rights as a childcare provider to keep a child from their legal parent - ever, unless there is a court order instructed to do so! We are only obligated/required to report if a child leaves with a parent we suspect is under the influence/not safe to drive. It doesn't really matter. If a parent is drunk, YOU are placing the child at risk by allowing them to go with someone under the influence, and are on prosecutable ground.
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
Besides, what parent is going to argue this? If they are drunk and you tell them you cannot release the child to them, but are willing to release them to a sober pick up person of their choice..are they really going to argue?
Are you kidding me? I am glad that you have never had to encounter an angry or violent drunk or drugged up person... but I have on many occasions and to think every parent would just simply agree to not have their child released to them in a calm collected manner is completely and utterly niave.Besides, what parent is going to argue this? If they are drunk and you tell them you cannot release the child to them, but are willing to release them to a sober pick up person of their choice..are they really going to argue?
It disturbs me how some DC providers here would be willing to have a confrontation with a drunk or otherwise intoxicated parent without even considering their own safetly, the safety of the other children in your care and even the safety of the child if the parent flips out.
daycare 08:22 AM 11-07-2012
you know, I have to say......
that there is a difference between what is legally right and morally WRONG.
I do understand that we HAVE to release the children to their parents according to the laws of licensing.
But If I knew for a fact that a parent was impaired in any way and was about to place ANY child in danger, you bet your life I am going to fight that person to the ground. I don't care if that means I go to jail, if I saved a child from possibly being killed in a car accident or such I would be willing to risk my life.
I love these kids and no ONE is going to hurt them if I can help it.
that there is a difference between what is legally right and morally WRONG.
I do understand that we HAVE to release the children to their parents according to the laws of licensing.
But If I knew for a fact that a parent was impaired in any way and was about to place ANY child in danger, you bet your life I am going to fight that person to the ground. I don't care if that means I go to jail, if I saved a child from possibly being killed in a car accident or such I would be willing to risk my life.
I love these kids and no ONE is going to hurt them if I can help it.
Blackcat31 08:25 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
you know, I have to say......
that there is a difference between what is legally right and morally WRONG.
I do understand that we HAVE to release the children to their parents according to the laws of licensing.
But If I knew for a fact that a parent was impaired in any way and was about to place ANY child in danger, you bet your life I am going to fight that person to the ground. I don't care if that means I go to jail, if I saved a child from possibly being killed in a car accident or such I would be willing to risk my life.
I love these kids and no ONE is going to hurt them if I can help it.
....and what is going to happen to all the other children you have in care while you are busy wrestling with a drunk parent?you know, I have to say......
that there is a difference between what is legally right and morally WRONG.
I do understand that we HAVE to release the children to their parents according to the laws of licensing.
But If I knew for a fact that a parent was impaired in any way and was about to place ANY child in danger, you bet your life I am going to fight that person to the ground. I don't care if that means I go to jail, if I saved a child from possibly being killed in a car accident or such I would be willing to risk my life.
I love these kids and no ONE is going to hurt them if I can help it.
daycare 08:27 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
....and what is going to happen to all the other children you have in care while you are busy wrestling with a drunk parent?
my assistant can care for them.....and what is going to happen to all the other children you have in care while you are busy wrestling with a drunk parent?
Blackcat31 08:28 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
my assistant can care for them.
I PM'ed you my assistant can care for them.
Willow 08:31 AM 11-07-2012
I don't think anyone will argue it would be morally wrong for a parent to pull such a stunt....but I also think several people are are grossly under estimating their personal abilities.
An intoxicated person (whether it be via alcohol or drugs) can possess incredible strength and have an unfailing resistance to all pain. If you have a gun sitting there you could shoot many and they'd keep right on truckin' as if nothing happened.
I've seen it plenty of times first hand.
It is far safer and far more productive NOT to engage an intoxicated person. Especially if you are not at all within your legal rights nor are professionally trained to do so.
An intoxicated person (whether it be via alcohol or drugs) can possess incredible strength and have an unfailing resistance to all pain. If you have a gun sitting there you could shoot many and they'd keep right on truckin' as if nothing happened.
I've seen it plenty of times first hand.
It is far safer and far more productive NOT to engage an intoxicated person. Especially if you are not at all within your legal rights nor are professionally trained to do so.
daycare 08:34 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
I don't think anyone will argue it would be morally wrong for a parent to pull such a stunt....but I also think several people are are grossly under estimating their personal abilities.
An intoxicated person (whether it be via alcohol or drugs) can possess incredible strength and have an unfailing resistance to all pain. If you have a gun sitting there you could shoot many and they'd keep right on truckin' as if nothing happened.
I've seen it plenty of times first hand.
It is far safer and far more productive NOT to engage an intoxicated person. Especially if you are not at all within your legal rights nor are professionally trained to do so.
I know what you guys are saying and yes you are right I may not understand what I am up for. BUT this is what I would do, regardless.I don't think anyone will argue it would be morally wrong for a parent to pull such a stunt....but I also think several people are are grossly under estimating their personal abilities.
An intoxicated person (whether it be via alcohol or drugs) can possess incredible strength and have an unfailing resistance to all pain. If you have a gun sitting there you could shoot many and they'd keep right on truckin' as if nothing happened.
I've seen it plenty of times first hand.
It is far safer and far more productive NOT to engage an intoxicated person. Especially if you are not at all within your legal rights nor are professionally trained to do so.
Country Kids 08:35 AM 11-07-2012
Why does everyone think that the parents would all react violently, angry, and pretty much destroy anything in their path?
I have seen quite a few people in my day that were drinkers and not all were this way. Many you could actually reason with and such.
Your parents all must be a tough crowd-
I have seen quite a few people in my day that were drinkers and not all were this way. Many you could actually reason with and such.
Your parents all must be a tough crowd-
littlemissmuffet 08:42 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
you know, I have to say......
that there is a difference between what is legally right and morally WRONG.
I do understand that we HAVE to release the children to their parents according to the laws of licensing.
But If I knew for a fact that a parent was impaired in any way and was about to place ANY child in danger, you bet your life I am going to fight that person to the ground. I don't care if that means I go to jail, if I saved a child from possibly being killed in a car accident or such I would be willing to risk my life.
I love these kids and no ONE is going to hurt them if I can help it.
I am only arguing the legalities of a situation like this because there are people on this board who are grossly misinformed that a childcare provider could be sued or legally prosecuted for allowing a child to leave with an intoxicated parent. This is false.you know, I have to say......
that there is a difference between what is legally right and morally WRONG.
I do understand that we HAVE to release the children to their parents according to the laws of licensing.
But If I knew for a fact that a parent was impaired in any way and was about to place ANY child in danger, you bet your life I am going to fight that person to the ground. I don't care if that means I go to jail, if I saved a child from possibly being killed in a car accident or such I would be willing to risk my life.
I love these kids and no ONE is going to hurt them if I can help it.
I absolutely agree it's morally wrong for a parent to drive intoxicated with their child and intentionally put them in harm's way. It is NOT, however, morally wrong for me to decide to put my own safety and the safety of multiple other daycare children ahead of one daycare child's. It's a difficult decision, yes, but sometimes it's a decision that needs to be made.
I know of far too many addicts with violent tendancies (a few in particular who hate women) to ever encourage a confrontation of this sort. It's not hard to call the police the moment they leave and provide a description of vehical and driver and home address... they will not get far, I assure you.
This is one of those cases where blame is being put in the wrong hands. The parent is at fault, not the daycare provider who is simply following the law and considering the safety of a group as opposed to individual.
For the record, I love my daycare kids too, but I am not willing to risk my life/the lives of others "just in case" an accident were to occur.
If this were a housefire we were talking about, or an armed man broke in I would absolutely do everything in my power (and yes, even risk my life) to save and protect the kids.
daycare 08:52 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Why does everyone think that the parents would all react violently, angry, and pretty much destroy anything in their path?
I have seen quite a few people in my day that were drinkers and not all were this way. Many you could actually reason with and such.
Your parents all must be a tough crowd-
about 4 years ago, I did have some parents that showed up under the influence to pick up their kids from a parents night out. When they came to the door, their faces were bright red and I said, OMG did you guys have too much fun or what?? They were embarrassed and I said, I follow you home with the kids.... Why does everyone think that the parents would all react violently, angry, and pretty much destroy anything in their path?
I have seen quite a few people in my day that were drinkers and not all were this way. Many you could actually reason with and such.
Your parents all must be a tough crowd-
end of story
sharlan 08:52 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I am only arguing the legalities of a situation like this because there are people on this board who are grossly misinformed that a childcare provider could be sued or legally prosecuted for allowing a child to leave with an intoxicated parent. This is false.
I absolutely agree it's morally wrong for a parent to drive intoxicated with their child and intentionally put them in harm's way. It is NOT, however, morally wrong for me to decide to put my own safety and the safety of multiple other daycare children ahead of one daycare child's. It's a difficult decision, yes, but sometimes it's a decision that needs to be made.
I know of far too many addicts with violent tendancies (a few in particular who hate women) to ever encourage a confrontation of this sort. It's not hard to call the police the moment they leave and provide a description of vehical and driver and home address... they will not get far, I assure you.
This is one of those cases where blame is being put in the wrong hands. The parent is at fault, not the daycare provider who is simply following the law and considering the safety of a group as opposed to individual.
For the record, I love my daycare kids too, but I am not willing to risk my life/the lives of others "just in case" an accident were to occur.
If this were a housefire we were talking about, or an armed man broke in I would absolutely do everything in my power (and yes, even risk my life) to save and protect the kids.
Anybody can be sued for anything. Just ask Kimberli, who's being sued for using timeout on an uncontrolled child.I am only arguing the legalities of a situation like this because there are people on this board who are grossly misinformed that a childcare provider could be sued or legally prosecuted for allowing a child to leave with an intoxicated parent. This is false.
I absolutely agree it's morally wrong for a parent to drive intoxicated with their child and intentionally put them in harm's way. It is NOT, however, morally wrong for me to decide to put my own safety and the safety of multiple other daycare children ahead of one daycare child's. It's a difficult decision, yes, but sometimes it's a decision that needs to be made.
I know of far too many addicts with violent tendancies (a few in particular who hate women) to ever encourage a confrontation of this sort. It's not hard to call the police the moment they leave and provide a description of vehical and driver and home address... they will not get far, I assure you.
This is one of those cases where blame is being put in the wrong hands. The parent is at fault, not the daycare provider who is simply following the law and considering the safety of a group as opposed to individual.
For the record, I love my daycare kids too, but I am not willing to risk my life/the lives of others "just in case" an accident were to occur.
If this were a housefire we were talking about, or an armed man broke in I would absolutely do everything in my power (and yes, even risk my life) to save and protect the kids.
littlemissmuffet 08:58 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Anybody can be sued for anything. Just ask Kimberli, who's being sued for using timeout on an uncontrolled child.
LOL, I know - I meant sued and actually lose. Anybody can be sued for anything. Just ask Kimberli, who's being sued for using timeout on an uncontrolled child.
Where I live, something like this would be thrown out of court so fast your head would spin.
sharlan 09:00 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
LOL, I know - I meant sued and actually lose.
Where I live, something like this would be thrown out of court so fast your head would spin.
That's probably because you live in CAnada not CAlifornia.LOL, I know - I meant sued and actually lose.
Where I live, something like this would be thrown out of court so fast your head would spin.
daycare 09:06 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Anybody can be sued for anything. Just ask Kimberli, who's being sued for using timeout on an uncontrolled child.
I agree....they want to find someone to blame../..Anybody can be sued for anything. Just ask Kimberli, who's being sued for using timeout on an uncontrolled child.
littlemissmuffet 09:09 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by sharlan:
That's probably because you live in CAnada not CAlifornia.
Doesn't matter where I live. The fear of being sued is not greater than the fear of myself or other daycare kids) being hurt by a potentially dangerous intoxicated person That's probably because you live in CAnada not CAlifornia.
Anyways, I just called my local police dept. and a police officer friend in Texas. Both said that all a childcare provider is required to do is report the suspected intoxication to authorities, nothing more - we are not legally responsibile for the child once the parent has taken them. Both police officers said that they would argue in court that the daycare provider was acting in the best interest of the group as a whole as opposed to one individual child. Both agreed that the liklihood of a parent winning a case trying to sue you for responsibility of the child/child's life that the other parent put in danger was nill.
Country Kids 09:11 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Doesn't matter where I live. The fear of being sued is not greater than the fear of myself or other daycare kids) being hurt by a potentially dangerous intoxicated person
Anyways, I just called my local police dept. and a police officer friend in Texas. Both said that all a childcare provider is required to do is report the suspected intoxication to authorities, nothing more - we are not legally responsibile for the child once the parent has taken them. Both police officers said that they would argue in court that the daycare provider was acting in the best interest of the group as a whole as opposed to one individual child. Both agreed that the liklihood of a parent winning a case trying to sue you for responsibility of the child/child's life that the other parent put in danger was nill.
So bottom line....we cannot keep the parent from taking them.Doesn't matter where I live. The fear of being sued is not greater than the fear of myself or other daycare kids) being hurt by a potentially dangerous intoxicated person
Anyways, I just called my local police dept. and a police officer friend in Texas. Both said that all a childcare provider is required to do is report the suspected intoxication to authorities, nothing more - we are not legally responsibile for the child once the parent has taken them. Both police officers said that they would argue in court that the daycare provider was acting in the best interest of the group as a whole as opposed to one individual child. Both agreed that the liklihood of a parent winning a case trying to sue you for responsibility of the child/child's life that the other parent put in danger was nill.
Blackcat31 09:11 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I agree....they want to find someone to blame../..
I don't think it is so much that they want to find someone to blame as it is that everyone tinks they are somehow entitled to ...well everything they want and to always getting their way. I agree....they want to find someone to blame../..
Kimberli isn't being sued by the parents for disciplining the child, Kimberli is being sued because the state licensing dept didn't agree with how she handled the situation so the parent sued because they automatically think that entitles them to their money back or that in some way they were wronged so therefore they should be entitled to something.
Willow 09:11 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Why does everyone think that the parents would all react violently, angry, and pretty much destroy anything in their path?
I have seen quite a few people in my day that were drinkers and not all were this way. Many you could actually reason with and such.
Your parents all must be a tough crowd-
No one is saying all drinkers are violent. Why does everyone think that the parents would all react violently, angry, and pretty much destroy anything in their path?
I have seen quite a few people in my day that were drinkers and not all were this way. Many you could actually reason with and such.
Your parents all must be a tough crowd-
Most (all?) of us here and most people in general indulge occasionally and obviously don't have a problem.
I also don't have any parent I believe would ever be violent in any circumstance, much less show up intoxicated and proceed to get nasty.
That said, we are all human, and I don't socialize with my daycare parents in bars so I have no idea how they'd be. To boot, I am not psychic, and I don't see myself ever willing to bait that bull....
Most people would NEVER have guessed based on day to day behavior that when drunk my ex-husband loved to smash my head into walls and knock me unconscious and definitely found the physical strength to do so despite my desperate flight reflex. He almost killed me several times.
Bottom line is:
YOU. JUST. NEVER. KNOW.
At least not until you're in the middle of it and by then it could be far too late.
Blackcat31 09:18 AM 11-07-2012
Back in 2010 Professionalmom made this comment on the subject:
"Consent - If you have this in your contract (no release to intoxicated person), they have GIVEN consent for you to restrain them in this circumstance. "
I think she has touched on a brilliant way to work around this problem.
I know it wouldn't solve every situation but it is definitely worth adding to a contract/policy and discussing it with parents during the interview.
I would however, NEVER try to argue with a person under the influence but if I felt the parent was somewhat calm and non-violent, I would atleast try to remind them of the policy they agreed and signed.
If anything, even if they get back into their car and leave without their child (I would call 911 immediately)......not ideal to let them drive still but better than letting the child go with them.
"Consent - If you have this in your contract (no release to intoxicated person), they have GIVEN consent for you to restrain them in this circumstance. "
I think she has touched on a brilliant way to work around this problem.
I know it wouldn't solve every situation but it is definitely worth adding to a contract/policy and discussing it with parents during the interview.
I would however, NEVER try to argue with a person under the influence but if I felt the parent was somewhat calm and non-violent, I would atleast try to remind them of the policy they agreed and signed.
If anything, even if they get back into their car and leave without their child (I would call 911 immediately)......not ideal to let them drive still but better than letting the child go with them.
littlemissmuffet 09:25 AM 11-07-2012
Another scenerio...
I showed a friend this thread and she made a very good point from a personal experience that a family member experienced that I didn't know about until now.
Her ex tried picking up their child once from the child's DC center while high. The teacher knew DCD and recognized that he was high and told him he should phone mom to come and get their daughter. He refused. She then threatened to call the police, at which point he grabbed their daughter and took off... for 2 weeks!
He was so afraid of the police catching him high (had previous drug-related charges) and wasn't thinking clearly that he panicked. Once he left the daycare he knew the worker had called so he left town, so as not to be caught high while driving WITH A CHILD in the car.
So now look how quickly this situation spiraled out of control. Imagine how much more erradic this man's driving was while he was planning an escape? He not only made his own situation much worse (kidnapping charges now added) but the child's in MUCH more danger in this particular situation rather than going straight home/the cops pulling them over on the way home!
I showed a friend this thread and she made a very good point from a personal experience that a family member experienced that I didn't know about until now.
Her ex tried picking up their child once from the child's DC center while high. The teacher knew DCD and recognized that he was high and told him he should phone mom to come and get their daughter. He refused. She then threatened to call the police, at which point he grabbed their daughter and took off... for 2 weeks!
He was so afraid of the police catching him high (had previous drug-related charges) and wasn't thinking clearly that he panicked. Once he left the daycare he knew the worker had called so he left town, so as not to be caught high while driving WITH A CHILD in the car.
So now look how quickly this situation spiraled out of control. Imagine how much more erradic this man's driving was while he was planning an escape?
He not only made his own situation much worse (kidnapping charges now added) but the child's in MUCH more danger in this particular situation rather than going straight home/the cops pulling them over on the way home!
sharlan 09:32 AM 11-07-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Doesn't matter where I live. The fear of being sued is not greater than the fear of myself or other daycare kids) being hurt by a potentially dangerous intoxicated person
Anyways, I just called my local police dept. and a police officer friend in Texas. Both said that all a childcare provider is required to do is report the suspected intoxication to authorities, nothing more - we are not legally responsibile for the child once the parent has taken them. Both police officers said that they would argue in court that the daycare provider was acting in the best interest of the group as a whole as opposed to one individual child. Both agreed that the liklihood of a parent winning a case trying to sue you for responsibility of the child/child's life that the other parent put in danger was nill.
I was refering to frivolous lawsuits.Doesn't matter where I live. The fear of being sued is not greater than the fear of myself or other daycare kids) being hurt by a potentially dangerous intoxicated person
Anyways, I just called my local police dept. and a police officer friend in Texas. Both said that all a childcare provider is required to do is report the suspected intoxication to authorities, nothing more - we are not legally responsibile for the child once the parent has taken them. Both police officers said that they would argue in court that the daycare provider was acting in the best interest of the group as a whole as opposed to one individual child. Both agreed that the liklihood of a parent winning a case trying to sue you for responsibility of the child/child's life that the other parent put in danger was nill.
Angelsj 06:39 PM 11-07-2012
Naive? Really?
I have been doing this for over 30 years, and I HAVE had this issue come up a few times. (maybe 5 to six, as well as one 'kidnapping' of a child from a schizophrenic parent who was just being medically abusive...grandma came and got the little one)
The conversation usually goes something like this:
"What do you mean I can't have my kid?!!!"
Me: "I did not say that. I said, you signed my policy book, which states *I* cannot release a child to someone who is obviously 'under the influence.' You are..so, here are your choices. I can call someone else to come get the child, or I can call the police and let them decide."
Only once has a parent argued past this point. I called the police. They came, and THANKED ME for being willing to protect the child.
It may be true that you could be prosecuted, but I cannot imagine a judge doing so, nor a law enforcement officer being upset.
It also has to do with presence and respect (and maybe a black belt in TKD), but parents do NOT argue with me...ever. In 30 years, no parent has EVER tried to get belligerent with me.
I have been doing this for over 30 years, and I HAVE had this issue come up a few times. (maybe 5 to six, as well as one 'kidnapping' of a child from a schizophrenic parent who was just being medically abusive...grandma came and got the little one)
The conversation usually goes something like this:
"What do you mean I can't have my kid?!!!"
Me: "I did not say that. I said, you signed my policy book, which states *I* cannot release a child to someone who is obviously 'under the influence.' You are..so, here are your choices. I can call someone else to come get the child, or I can call the police and let them decide."
Only once has a parent argued past this point. I called the police. They came, and THANKED ME for being willing to protect the child.
It may be true that you could be prosecuted, but I cannot imagine a judge doing so, nor a law enforcement officer being upset.
It also has to do with presence and respect (and maybe a black belt in TKD), but parents do NOT argue with me...ever. In 30 years, no parent has EVER tried to get belligerent with me.