Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Enrolling DCM Complaint, Discrimination
PitterPatter 09:35 AM 01-17-2012
First of all I charge simply by the day or 1/2 day. I am open from 8am-5pm now. Clients are permitted to use any time frame in that window.
So now I have a new DCM enrolling and we hit a snag. She found out that some clients (subsidy) only pay $1.00 per day and that the total I receive from the state for any subsidy child is $20 up to the age of 5. After 5yrs I receive $17 per child per day. She now wants this rate too.
I have always charged my private pay clients $25 per day when I have them. I only accept the $20 because I MUST in order to get subsidy clients. Now I have DCM complaining it's not fair I am taking advantage of her and that's discrimination. I never looked at it this way. IF I could charge the subsidy families more I would do so but am not allowed. So now because I accept subsidized care am I required to charge my private paying clients the same?
Is this a form of discrimination?
So now I have a new DCM enrolling and we hit a snag. She found out that some clients (subsidy) only pay $1.00 per day and that the total I receive from the state for any subsidy child is $20 up to the age of 5. After 5yrs I receive $17 per child per day. She now wants this rate too.
I have always charged my private pay clients $25 per day when I have them. I only accept the $20 because I MUST in order to get subsidy clients. Now I have DCM complaining it's not fair I am taking advantage of her and that's discrimination. I never looked at it this way. IF I could charge the subsidy families more I would do so but am not allowed. So now because I accept subsidized care am I required to charge my private paying clients the same?
Is this a form of discrimination?
Cat Herder 09:41 AM 01-17-2012
NO.
It is an entitlement issue on the part of the DCM.
Your business agreements with other clients is NONE of her business.
Beyond rude.
It is an entitlement issue on the part of the DCM.
Your business agreements with other clients is NONE of her business.
Beyond rude.
AmyLeigh 09:46 AM 01-17-2012
Remind her that the subsidy families are low-income. If she wants subsidy rate, she can get a lower paying job and jump through all of the hoops to get qualified, right? 
DCMom 09:47 AM 01-17-2012
I charge everyone the same. If my daily rate is $25 and I get reimbursed $20 from the state, then the parents would be pays other $5 in addition to any co-pay that they may have.
Besides, what you charge other families is not her business. How did she find out what the other family is paying?
Besides, what you charge other families is not her business. How did she find out what the other family is paying?
Childminder 09:48 AM 01-17-2012
Did she sign a contract with you? Tell her if she wants that rate then she will have to get put on subsidy. You are already getting screwed by taking subsidy. You are a business not a charity!!!
DaycareMama 09:50 AM 01-17-2012
I was told that we had to charge the same for everyone or it was considered discrimination. BUT I am allowed to charge my subsidy families more to make up the difference. they just have to pay more out of their pocket. Or find somewhere else.
Zoe 09:50 AM 01-17-2012
The only thing you would be doing wrong is if you raised your regular rates to get more from the state, which is NOT what you are doing. Just because the state subsidy pays you a certain amount does not determine the top rate you are able to charge private paying clients. That is YOUR business and if the dcm doesn't like it, she can either apply for subsidy or find someone else.
Stick to your policy!
Stick to your policy!
Crazy8 09:51 AM 01-17-2012
honestly, she's arguing over $4/day - I know that adds up but if this is her issue right upon enrollment I wouldn't even take them on.
I agree with Catherder - you are free to make per client decisions and what you charge other clients is none of her business!!!
I agree with Catherder - you are free to make per client decisions and what you charge other clients is none of her business!!!
PitterPatter 10:04 AM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by DCMom:
I charge everyone the same. If my daily rate is $25 and I get reimbursed $20 from the state, then the parents would be pays other $5 in addition to any co-pay that they may have.
Besides, what you charge other families is not her business. How did she find out what the other family is paying?
I would love to charge the subs families the difference but in my state I am not allowed to charge the subsidy clients anything extra. I am only to collect the portion fee that the state doesn't cover. We did finally get permission recently to charge late fees though!I charge everyone the same. If my daily rate is $25 and I get reimbursed $20 from the state, then the parents would be pays other $5 in addition to any co-pay that they may have.
Besides, what you charge other families is not her business. How did she find out what the other family is paying?
I guess she asked someone to get the info because it wasn't in question at first. She must have been talking to someone who is on subsidy or had been because she knew a lot!
Thank God I require 2 visits now so no contract signed yet. As much as I need clients I won't be signing the contract for care. I can just imagine the other issues that will pop up later!
Thanks everyone, I just want to be sure I am doing the right thing.
cheerfuldom 10:07 AM 01-17-2012
I think you did the right thing. You don't have to justify the way you run your business and frankly, I would not have even gone into a huge explanation. I would have just told her that your contract outlines your rates. If she is not happy with that arrangement, she is welcome to look elsewhere for care.
Blackcat31 10:09 AM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by PitterPatter:
Oh and for the record she is white and works in a bank! Not elligible for assistance
Oh and for the record she is white and works in a bank! Not elligible for assistance
what does race and place of work have to do with eligibility for subsidy payments?
Heidi 10:34 AM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
what does race and place of work have to do with eligibility for subsidy payments?
because the client was suggesting that she was being discriminated against. White banker is not a protected class... what does race and place of work have to do with eligibility for subsidy payments? Well, unless they work on Wall Street! 
legal definition of discrimination, per freedictionary.com:
Federal laws, supplemented by court decisions, prohibit discrimination in such areas as employment, housing, voting rights, education, and access to public facilities.
They also proscribe discrimination on the basis of race, age, sex, nationality, disability, or religion.
wdmmom 10:47 AM 01-17-2012
Subsidy means you have to accept what the government is paying you. You do not have to accept it from private pay clients. If they are low income and can qualify for subsidy, tell them you will honor the lower rate. Until then...too bad!
snbauser 10:56 AM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by DaycareMama:
I was told that we had to charge the same for everyone or it was considered discrimination. BUT I am allowed to charge my subsidy families more to make up the difference. they just have to pay more out of their pocket. Or find somewhere else.
Same here. Our rates have to be set regardless of how we get paid.I was told that we had to charge the same for everyone or it was considered discrimination. BUT I am allowed to charge my subsidy families more to make up the difference. they just have to pay more out of their pocket. Or find somewhere else.
Blackcat31 11:16 AM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by bbo:
because the client was suggesting that she was being discriminated against. White banker is not a protected class... Well, unless they work on Wall Street!
legal definition of discrimination, per freedictionary.com:
Federal laws, supplemented by court decisions, prohibit discrimination in such areas as employment, housing, voting rights, education, and access to public facilities.
They also proscribe discrimination on the basis of race, age, sex, nationality, disability, or religion.
I understand what discrimination is, but the daycare parent felt she was being discriminated against for being a cash paying parent. She mentioned nothing about race or job choice. Discrimination can be for many many different reasons, which not all of them are about color. because the client was suggesting that she was being discriminated against. White banker is not a protected class...
Well, unless they work on Wall Street! legal definition of discrimination, per freedictionary.com:
Federal laws, supplemented by court decisions, prohibit discrimination in such areas as employment, housing, voting rights, education, and access to public facilities.
They also proscribe discrimination on the basis of race, age, sex, nationality, disability, or religion.
I personally, just thought the comment was really uncalled for.
Heidi 11:48 AM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I understand what discrimination is, but the daycare parent felt she was being discriminated against for being a cash paying parent. She mentioned nothing about race or job choice. Discrimination can be for many many different reasons, which not all of them are about color.
I personally, just thought the comment was really uncalled for.
I respect what you're saying, Cat. I think OP was just trying to tell us that because this person was white & a banker (and possibly from her own color/creed/etc..), that she had no case for calling it discrimination. I understand what discrimination is, but the daycare parent felt she was being discriminated against for being a cash paying parent. She mentioned nothing about race or job choice. Discrimination can be for many many different reasons, which not all of them are about color.
I personally, just thought the comment was really uncalled for.
I added the definition of discrimination on my post for OP (to back her up) because having too high of an income to be eligible for subsidy is not a protected class.
momma2girls 12:33 PM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by PitterPatter:
I would love to charge the subs families the difference but in my state I am not allowed to charge the subsidy clients anything extra. I am only to collect the portion fee that the state doesn't cover. We did finally get permission recently to charge late fees though!
I guess she asked someone to get the info because it wasn't in question at first. She must have been talking to someone who is on subsidy or had been because she knew a lot!
Thank God I require 2 visits now so no contract signed yet. As much as I need clients I won't be signing the contract for care. I can just imagine the other issues that will pop up later!
Thanks everyone, I just want to be sure I am doing the right thing.
Oh and for the record she is white and works in a bank! Not elligible for assistance
When I first starting doing daycare, I had one family, which was on state. I originally told her that she would pay the difference of what state would be paying me. About 8 yrs. ago, state only paid $7.00 per 4 hr. increments. So I would receive $14.00 per day- I charged $25.00 a day. Then she told state, she couldn't ever afford to pay me, the difference. I never knew it was against the law where I live to charge the family the difference. She also had 2 children in my daycare in the summer. So I was losing out ALOT of money!!! It was $11.00 per day, per child- Needless to say that family didn't work out at all. I caught the children, lying, stealing money, etc.....I would love to charge the subs families the difference but in my state I am not allowed to charge the subsidy clients anything extra. I am only to collect the portion fee that the state doesn't cover. We did finally get permission recently to charge late fees though!
I guess she asked someone to get the info because it wasn't in question at first. She must have been talking to someone who is on subsidy or had been because she knew a lot!
Thank God I require 2 visits now so no contract signed yet. As much as I need clients I won't be signing the contract for care. I can just imagine the other issues that will pop up later!
Thanks everyone, I just want to be sure I am doing the right thing.
Oh and for the record she is white and works in a bank! Not elligible for assistance
PitterPatter 08:02 PM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
what does race and place of work have to do with eligibility for subsidy payments?
I meant no offense by that comment. I just meant she was trying to accuse me of discriminating against her which I do not do! MANY dif people of ALL races can be on subidy! I simply meant because she was trying to act better than subsidised yet when she found out they paid less she then tried to turn the tables and wanted their rate and blamed me for treating her different. She blamed ME for discriminating against her. what does race and place of work have to do with eligibility for subsidy payments? Most of my clients are subsidised I have nothing against ANY color! I just found her to be arrogant and mad because she couldn't get the same as the lower income families. She acted like she was holier than tho, nice enough but higher class type attitude in the beginning... yet wants their payments so she tried playing the poor me card and told me she actually is in need. She even made comments like "just because i dont work in the ghetto or flip burgers for a living doesn't mean you can charge me more" She bragged about climbing the ladder of sucess, on her way to managment at first etc. THEN turned the tables and said she too needed cheaper daycare so she can pay off her new car (forget what she called it). The people in subsidised NEED help she doesn't. It makes me mad when people that are well off think they should get handed to. It's bad enough we have some subsidy people that don't really need it or plan to live off of it. She was arrogant and tried to make me feel ashamed like she was a minority and I was talking something away from her!
PitterPatter 08:05 PM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I understand what discrimination is, but the daycare parent felt she was being discriminated against for being a cash paying parent. She mentioned nothing about race or job choice. Discrimination can be for many many different reasons, which not all of them are about color.
I personally, just thought the comment was really uncalled for.
Again my aplogies. Other than the word you didn't like do you have an opinion on the issue?I understand what discrimination is, but the daycare parent felt she was being discriminated against for being a cash paying parent. She mentioned nothing about race or job choice. Discrimination can be for many many different reasons, which not all of them are about color.
I personally, just thought the comment was really uncalled for.
PitterPatter 08:06 PM 01-17-2012
Originally Posted by bbo:
I respect what you're saying, Cat. I think OP was just trying to tell us that because this person was white & a banker (and possibly from her own color/creed/etc..), that she had no case for calling it discrimination.
I added the definition of discrimination on my post for OP (to back her up) because having too high of an income to be eligible for subsidy is not a protected class.
Thank you EXACTLY how I felt!! She had no right to complain she was being discriminated against when there is REAL discrimination going on every day! She's just mad because I won't bend for her snotty arse!I respect what you're saying, Cat. I think OP was just trying to tell us that because this person was white & a banker (and possibly from her own color/creed/etc..), that she had no case for calling it discrimination.
I added the definition of discrimination on my post for OP (to back her up) because having too high of an income to be eligible for subsidy is not a protected class.
awestbrook713 04:05 AM 01-18-2012
My daily rate is also $25 a day and I charge a weekly rate based on the daily rate multiplied by number of days the child is here a week.
I had this same issue Subsidy dcm talked to her friend who pays out of pocket and so out of pocket dcm thought they were being charged different rates but they weren't.
Subsidy is help with payment but they are still responsible for paying the difference between the state assistance and their weekly rate, so if I have a child with a weekly rate of $100 and the state only pays $80 that family is responsible for the additional $20.
Are you not allowed to charge them the remaining amount due to state rules on subsidy or are you just doing this as a favor to low income families?Never mind I see you answered this above. That stinks that your state won't let you charge the difference. I only know I can because I have called and asked or else I would not take subsidy because it would not be worth it.
I had this same issue Subsidy dcm talked to her friend who pays out of pocket and so out of pocket dcm thought they were being charged different rates but they weren't.
Subsidy is help with payment but they are still responsible for paying the difference between the state assistance and their weekly rate, so if I have a child with a weekly rate of $100 and the state only pays $80 that family is responsible for the additional $20.
Are you not allowed to charge them the remaining amount due to state rules on subsidy or are you just doing this as a favor to low income families?Never mind I see you answered this above. That stinks that your state won't let you charge the difference. I only know I can because I have called and asked or else I would not take subsidy because it would not be worth it.
small_steps 05:06 AM 01-18-2012
Does your state assistance provide anything extra ever? In texas our state assistance provides us (sometimes) with training hours, CDA trainings for free, and the past two years we have even gotten grants for new toys/supplies from them. If they offer those types of benefits I would tell her that to make up for their lower pay rate they provide us with those types of things.
It really isn't any of her business in my opinion either but if I told her anything I might tell her that.
Our state doesn't allow us to charge extra either. We have to take what the state pays.
It really isn't any of her business in my opinion either but if I told her anything I might tell her that.
Our state doesn't allow us to charge extra either. We have to take what the state pays.
PitterPatter 06:32 AM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by small_steps:
Does your state assistance provide anything extra ever? In texas our state assistance provides us (sometimes) with training hours, CDA trainings for free, and the past two years we have even gotten grants for new toys/supplies from them. If they offer those types of benefits I would tell her that to make up for their lower pay rate they provide us with those types of things.
It really isn't any of her business in my opinion either but if I told her anything I might tell her that.
Our state doesn't allow us to charge extra either. We have to take what the state pays.
Yes our trainings are free except for the CPR & 1st aid I pay $70 for those every year. We are able to apply for grants once per year to furnish/replace safety items such as the fire extinguisher, smoke and carbon detectors, safety gates etc. They did have another grant for furniture and such but they said it was tapped out and were doing away with it a couple years ago.Does your state assistance provide anything extra ever? In texas our state assistance provides us (sometimes) with training hours, CDA trainings for free, and the past two years we have even gotten grants for new toys/supplies from them. If they offer those types of benefits I would tell her that to make up for their lower pay rate they provide us with those types of things.
It really isn't any of her business in my opinion either but if I told her anything I might tell her that.
Our state doesn't allow us to charge extra either. We have to take what the state pays.
The more I replayed this womans words in my head the more upset I got so I refuse to give her anymore info. Last I told her was if she thought I was discriminating then she should call the CCRR and discuss it with them.
Blackcat31 07:00 AM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by PitterPatter:
I meant no offense by that comment. I just meant she was trying to accuse me of discriminating against her which I do not do! MANY dif people of ALL races can be on subidy! I simply meant because she was trying to act better than subsidised yet when she found out they paid less she then tried to turn the tables and wanted their rate and blamed me for treating her different. She blamed ME for discriminating against her.
Most of my clients are subsidised I have nothing against ANY color! I just found her to be arrogant and mad because she couldn't get the same as the lower income families. She acted like she was holier than tho, nice enough but higher class type attitude in the beginning... yet wants their payments so she tried playing the poor me card and told me she actually is in need. She even made comments like "just because i dont work in the ghetto or flip burgers for a living doesn't mean you can charge me more" She bragged about climbing the ladder of sucess, on her way to managment at first etc. THEN turned the tables and said she too needed cheaper daycare so she can pay off her new car (forget what she called it). The people in subsidised NEED help she doesn't. It makes me mad when people that are well off think they should get handed to. It's bad enough we have some subsidy people that don't really need it or plan to live off of it. She was arrogant and tried to make me feel ashamed like she was a minority and I was talking something away from her!
I meant no offense by that comment. I just meant she was trying to accuse me of discriminating against her which I do not do! MANY dif people of ALL races can be on subidy! I simply meant because she was trying to act better than subsidised yet when she found out they paid less she then tried to turn the tables and wanted their rate and blamed me for treating her different. She blamed ME for discriminating against her.
Most of my clients are subsidised I have nothing against ANY color! I just found her to be arrogant and mad because she couldn't get the same as the lower income families. She acted like she was holier than tho, nice enough but higher class type attitude in the beginning... yet wants their payments so she tried playing the poor me card and told me she actually is in need. She even made comments like "just because i dont work in the ghetto or flip burgers for a living doesn't mean you can charge me more" She bragged about climbing the ladder of sucess, on her way to managment at first etc. THEN turned the tables and said she too needed cheaper daycare so she can pay off her new car (forget what she called it). The people in subsidised NEED help she doesn't. It makes me mad when people that are well off think they should get handed to. It's bad enough we have some subsidy people that don't really need it or plan to live off of it. She was arrogant and tried to make me feel ashamed like she was a minority and I was talking something away from her!
No worries! Knowing you (or rather the general 'tone' of your posts) I know that you didn't necessarily mean anything by it either. I probably shouldn't have been so sensitive but it is just one of those "hot buttons" for me. 
Rather than discrimination, I think this mother feels entitled. I would simply let her know that every family in your care has a rate that coordinates with their individual needs and their method of payment. If she feels she would like to apply to receive subsidy, then send her in that direction.
I also strongly urge you to let her know that you will NOT discuss other DCF's rates and that her rate is $____, and you will NO longer be discussing this issue again. PERIOD.
If she chooses to leave then so be it. Her choice.
PitterPatter 09:04 AM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
No worries! Knowing you (or rather the general 'tone' of your posts) I know that you didn't necessarily mean anything by it either. I probably shouldn't have been so sensitive but it is just one of those "hot buttons" for me.
Rather than discrimination, I think this mother feels entitled. I would simply let her know that every family in your care has a rate that coordinates with their individual needs and their method of payment. If she feels she would like to apply to receive subsidy, then send her in that direction.
I also strongly urge you to let her know that you will NOT discuss other DCF's rates and that her rate is $____, and you will NO longer be discussing this issue again. PERIOD.
If she chooses to leave then so be it. Her choice.
Thanks Blackcat No worries! Knowing you (or rather the general 'tone' of your posts) I know that you didn't necessarily mean anything by it either. I probably shouldn't have been so sensitive but it is just one of those "hot buttons" for me. Rather than discrimination, I think this mother feels entitled. I would simply let her know that every family in your care has a rate that coordinates with their individual needs and their method of payment. If she feels she would like to apply to receive subsidy, then send her in that direction.
I also strongly urge you to let her know that you will NOT discuss other DCF's rates and that her rate is $____, and you will NO longer be discussing this issue again. PERIOD.
If she chooses to leave then so be it. Her choice.
I was hoping you would know me better by now. When the lady complained about paying the higher rate I told her she was more than welcome to apply for the subsidy program and even offered her the phone number to get started. She got snooty and said she "made too much money to receieve public aid". That's why I did not understand her complaint at all! BUT I wanted to be sure I wasn't discriminating against her as she accused me of.
youretooloud 09:14 AM 01-18-2012
Originally Posted by AmyLeigh:
Remind her that the subsidy families are low-income. If she wants subsidy rate, she can get a lower paying job and jump through all of the hoops to get qualified, right?
Yes..this... there are forms to fill out, lines to stand in, if she's willing to put in that extra work, then that's great for her.Remind her that the subsidy families are low-income. If she wants subsidy rate, she can get a lower paying job and jump through all of the hoops to get qualified, right?