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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Best Movement Monitor?
Mom2Two 06:35 PM 09-18-2017
I have a 10 wk old starting tomorrow, and I'm required to have an apnea device. Snuza go or hero gets good ratings on Amazon and Angelcare too.

I ended up ordering Angelcare movement only on Amazon with express delivery, which means that tomorrow I'll have to have the baby sleep in the same place as me.

I'd like to go buy a Snuza tonight (I wouldn't mind having both), but darn it I can't find it anywhere! Not even at Babies R Us.

Anyway...which do you like if you use them?
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Michael 01:34 AM 09-19-2017
A similar thread: https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83554
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Blackcat31 07:36 AM 09-19-2017
Originally Posted by Mom2Two:
I have a 10 wk old starting tomorrow, and I'm required to have an apnea device. Snuza go or hero gets good ratings on Amazon and Angelcare too.

I ended up ordering Angelcare movement only on Amazon with express delivery, which means that tomorrow I'll have to have the baby sleep in the same place as me.

I'd like to go buy a Snuza tonight (I wouldn't mind having both), but darn it I can't find it anywhere! Not even at Babies R Us.

Anyway...which do you like if you use them?
Can I ask what state are you in that they require you to have an apnea device? My state is adamantly against provider's using them so it seems odd to me that another state requires it.
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Cat Herder 07:41 AM 09-19-2017
Is this a SIDS sibling? If so, IME, they should be the ones providing the equipment and monitoring services.
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Mom2Two 08:39 AM 09-19-2017
Oh my, I think they've changed the rule since my last baby! I just looked it up and it's not there anymore.

I am vaguely remembering that it might be because a couple of babies strangled on the angelcare cord a few years back.
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Mom2Two 09:11 AM 09-19-2017
Originally Posted by Michael:
A similar thread: https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83554
That is an interesting thread!

@blackcat Did they ever make that law where daycare providers would be held responsible for sids deaths in care? I'm with the other who said they would go to a no-infant program if that was the case. Sheesh!
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Blackcat31 09:51 AM 09-19-2017
Originally Posted by Mom2Two:
That is an interesting thread!

@blackcat Did they ever make that law where daycare providers would be held responsible for sids deaths in care? I'm with the other who said they would go to a no-infant program if that was the case. Sheesh!
Not that I am aware of but I know in my state we are not allowed to use any type of monitors like that because it gives a false sense of security and providers make get lazy and stop doing physical checks on infants.

We are also not allowed to have anything in the crib or attached to the child. Fines range from $200-$1000.
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Unregistered 09:27 PM 09-20-2017
Glad I found this thread. I have recently been cited for lack of supervision and I am fighting it. I am complying with the minimum standards but the rep is going above and beyond them. I have had other reps in here and no problems. This is specific to the new girl.

In SIDS training there has been a huge emphasis on NOT relying on supervision devices, that nothing replaces physically checking on the baby. Minimum standards state visual or sound monitoring. Oh boy can I hear them and within a few steps I am in there rooms.

I also found the following docs links from the American Academy of Pediatrics, National Institute of Health, and the FDA stating very clearly to NOT use those devices or that they can NOT be trusted and give a false sense of security.

https://www.nichd.nih.gov/sts/about/Pages/faq.aspx
https://www.nichd.nih.gov/sts/about/...es/reduce.aspx
https://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Con.../ucm275847.htm

So I am torn. I have tried visual monitors but they are not clear enough to see breathing and they don't notify you if they stop, so I returned them in the past. So if I am in the bathroom with a toddler the monitor right outside in the living room is useless. Even if portable I am not going to hold the viewer(cell) in one hand while I sit a toddler on the potty and wipe her butt with the other (that was suggested). Small house 1200 sq ft and all kids sleep in the separate rooms with hard flooring so sound travels!

So I offered to look into bed pads, and sleep apnea monitors but I am hearing nothing but bad things. Moms seem to feel better, but no science to back it up.

This would be a marketing ploy at this point and be going against the above organization recommendations. But that is a lot of money for straight up marketing to make everyone "feel better". Honestly I don't have it right now.

Any tips appreciated. I am writing a formal complaint and fighting it but I really want to find a compromise.
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Blackcat31 07:18 AM 09-21-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Glad I found this thread. I have recently been cited for lack of supervision and I am fighting it. I am complying with the minimum standards but the rep is going above and beyond them. I have had other reps in here and no problems. This is specific to the new girl.

In SIDS training there has been a huge emphasis on NOT relying on supervision devices, that nothing replaces physically checking on the baby. Minimum standards state visual or sound monitoring. Oh boy can I hear them and within a few steps I am in there rooms.

I also found the following docs links from the American Academy of Pediatrics, National Institute of Health, and the FDA stating very clearly to NOT use those devices or that they can NOT be trusted and give a false sense of security.

https://www.nichd.nih.gov/sts/about/Pages/faq.aspx
https://www.nichd.nih.gov/sts/about/...es/reduce.aspx
https://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Con.../ucm275847.htm

So I am torn. I have tried visual monitors but they are not clear enough to see breathing and they don't notify you if they stop, so I returned them in the past. So if I am in the bathroom with a toddler the monitor right outside in the living room is useless. Even if portable I am not going to hold the viewer(cell) in one hand while I sit a toddler on the potty and wipe her butt with the other (that was suggested). Small house 1200 sq ft and all kids sleep in the separate rooms with hard flooring so sound travels!

So I offered to look into bed pads, and sleep apnea monitors but I am hearing nothing but bad things. Moms seem to feel better, but no science to back it up.

This would be a marketing ploy at this point and be going against the above organization recommendations. But that is a lot of money for straight up marketing to make everyone "feel better". Honestly I don't have it right now.

Any tips appreciated. I am writing a formal complaint and fighting it but I really want to find a compromise.
That is exactly what I do.... I carry the monitor with me.

However, it does not pose an issue for me as I do NOT "take" children to the bathroom and I do not wipe their butts for them. Toilet trained means being able to do those things on their own. I am group care. The needs of the youngest child in care always supersedes the needs of others (other than safety/danger situations).

Learning self-help skills in regards to dressing/undressing prior to training is ultimate for group care as this eliminates the need for me to be physically in the bathroom with children and creates an atmosphere where an infant (under 12 months here) is always within my direct sight and sound.

What was happening/going on when you were cited for lack of supervision? I am not understanding how you could be cited for lack of supervision unless the licensor was present when you left the room. Which in that case, the kids were left with an adult present so I don't understand.
Can you elaborate? What state are you in?
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Unregistered 07:32 AM 09-21-2017
Texas. I put the baby down for a nap in their room. They stated since I do not have a visual on them at all times then it is lack of supervision. This has never been a problem in the past. Even though licensing min standards state "visual and or audio monitoring at all times" which I comply with.

My focus is on infants so none can do self-care. My oldest is transitioning at 16 m to potty training and will need help. Even 2 and 3 yr olds I know need someone to wipe them properly in my experience. Turn on the water, help them wash their hands etc. So I will be in the bathroom or another room, which I can still clearly hear then babbling or crying.

Due to having infants at various stages of sleep schedules, I do have them in separate rooms so they can get quality sleep without another child waking them. That concept is central to my business model. I have a strict system of physical monitoring. BUt admit I am constantly moving back and forth across the house, not sitting in front of a video monitoring. With up to 4 kids I can't have 3 (rooms)monitor camera viewers on me at all times.

Only central location for placing those is my desk area next to the kitchen, but that is 4 feet away from where the camera would be in one of my kid's rooms. Not viewable from everywhere and doesn't notify me if anything is wrong.

I am considering keeping a clipboard on the wall near the crib with spots to put time and date when I physically check on them, and keeping and resetting a timer on the kitchen counter to remind me to at least physically every 15 min check on them and document it.

Thanks guys for helping find a solution.
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Blackcat31 07:45 AM 09-21-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Texas. I put the baby down for a nap in their room. They stated since I do not have a visual on them at all times then it is lack of supervision. This has never been a problem in the past. Even though licensing min standards state "visual and or audio monitoring at all times" which I comply with.

My focus is on infants so none can do self-care. My oldest is transitioning at 16 m to potty training and will need help. Even 2 and 3 yr olds I know need someone to wipe them properly in my experience. Turn on the water, help them wash their hands etc. So I will be in the bathroom or another room, which I can still clearly hear then babbling or crying.

Due to having infants at various stages of sleep schedules, I do have them in separate rooms so they can get quality sleep without another child waking them. That concept is central to my business model. I have a strict system of physical monitoring. BUt admit I am constantly moving back and forth across the house, not sitting in front of a video monitoring. With up to 4 kids I can't have 3 (rooms)monitor camera viewers on me at all times.

Only central location for placing those is my desk area next to the kitchen, but that is 4 feet away from where the camera would be in one of my kid's rooms. Not viewable from everywhere and doesn't notify me if anything is wrong.

I am considering keeping a clipboard on the wall near the crib with spots to put time and date when I physically check on them, and keeping and resetting a timer on the kitchen counter to remind me to at least physically every 15 min check on them and document it.

Thanks guys for helping find a solution.
Thank you....the picture is a bit more clear now..

I would absolutely fight that as the state can not cite you for not doing more than minimum standards.

If sight OR sound is the only requirement I would ask specifically why you are being cited as you COULD hear/see. If they simply continue to say "Lack of supervision" I would insist they state exactly what you were not doing in regards to supervision. For example..."Provider was outside of ear shot when licensor was present. Provider was not able to hear or see infant". I would personally re-enact the situation and prove that you COULD see/hear.

I despise licensing reps that feel they can interpret the rule in whatever manner they want.... my state (MN) is working towards mandatory training for all licensors so that no rule is interpreted differently. Which is important for providers across the state since every set up is different and individual environments need to be considered.

In my honest opinion most citations are simply situations in which the licensor doesn't understand or feels the need to cite someone. My licensor shared with me not too long ago the state made a comment to all county licensors that it's impossible for any provider to go 10 or more years with out a citation and if that is the case, the licensor is not doing his/her job Thankfully my licensor was apalled at such a statement.

Anyways I would absolutely appeal the citation you received and would ask for clarification as to what exactly you were not doing and how that applies to your state regulations. Technically and legally they cannot cite you if they can not show what you were doing wrong and where the written rule is you violated. If they cannot show you where it is written, there is no violation.
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MarinaVanessa 08:18 AM 09-21-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Texas. I put the baby down for a nap in their room. They stated since I do not have a visual on them at all times then it is lack of supervision. This has never been a problem in the past. Even though licensing min standards state "visual and or audio monitoring at all times" which I comply with.

My focus is on infants so none can do self-care. My oldest is transitioning at 16 m to potty training and will need help. Even 2 and 3 yr olds I know need someone to wipe them properly in my experience. Turn on the water, help them wash their hands etc. So I will be in the bathroom or another room, which I can still clearly hear then babbling or crying.

Due to having infants at various stages of sleep schedules, I do have them in separate rooms so they can get quality sleep without another child waking them. That concept is central to my business model. I have a strict system of physical monitoring. BUt admit I am constantly moving back and forth across the house, not sitting in front of a video monitoring. With up to 4 kids I can't have 3 (rooms)monitor camera viewers on me at all times.

Only central location for placing those is my desk area next to the kitchen, but that is 4 feet away from where the camera would be in one of my kid's rooms. Not viewable from everywhere and doesn't notify me if anything is wrong.

I am considering keeping a clipboard on the wall near the crib with spots to put time and date when I physically check on them, and keeping and resetting a timer on the kitchen counter to remind me to at least physically every 15 min check on them and document it.

Thanks guys for helping find a solution.
Why not change the system you use? I have several cameras in my home and even though mine are for security purposes they could work as baby monitors. I can't remember exactly what the cameras make/models are at the moment but there are several on the market that work the same.

The cameras have both video & audio and the audio works both ways ... as in you can hear what's going on in the room as well as talk through the camera into the room (not that you'd need that option but it's cool ). You can set the system to record or just monitor always (see the feed but not record, saves space) and can set it to start recording if it senses movement and it starts recording at that time for a little bit and notified you to your smart phone or device by sending an alert through it's app.

You can connect several cameras and view them simultaneously on your smart phone screen or computer monitor. So you can keep the feed running continuously on a monitor and then if you need to step away from it for any reason you can pull the feed up on your smart phone and still see 4 camera feeds. Maybe get one of those phone covers that has a built in stand and you can set it on the bathroom counter while you or you LO do your business, while you cook in the kitchen etc.

I can't remember exactly how much it cost us but I can check. The cameras cost us about $25-$50 ea I think and they're wireless so not cables hanging down and since you don't have to plug them in you're not limited to having to mount it near an outlet.

Anyway, just a though. There are other options.
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Unregistered 09:23 AM 09-21-2017
I am going to fight it. I agree with the citation bit.

As far as the cameras there is no way to visually monitor at all times. According to her concern. Even if there is a console in my bathroom that could help thereby not having to get the phone out of my pocket and click on the app to view the kids. Good idea. That to me is something I could do and see as providing a real not just perceived extra layer of safety.

Do you know the system you found that had cameras that cheap that could connect? I am seeing individual ones but then you get into multiples and you are dealing with a new whole security system and the price skyrockets.

So I need multiple connected cameras, console I can have in bathroom, log in via my desk top. App on phone not ideal, I would have to get a new phone (none have windows apps) As you can see all of this is adding up very quickly.

Got a quote from Vivint and it is over $1600 in equipment and to come set it up and sync it and give me extra monitor pads.

Thanks for the suggestions, please keep them coming.
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Blackcat31 10:04 AM 09-21-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am going to fight it. I agree with the citation bit.

As far as the cameras there is no way to visually monitor at all times. According to her concern. Even if there is a console in my bathroom that could help thereby not having to get the phone out of my pocket and click on the app to view the kids. Good idea. That to me is something I could do and see as providing a real not just perceived extra layer of safety.

Do you know the system you found that had cameras that cheap that could connect? I am seeing individual ones but then you get into multiples and you are dealing with a new whole security system and the price skyrockets.

So I need multiple connected cameras, console I can have in bathroom, log in via my desk top. App on phone not ideal, I would have to get a new phone (none have windows apps) As you can see all of this is adding up very quickly.

Got a quote from Vivint and it is over $1600 in equipment and to come set it up and sync it and give me extra monitor pads.

Thanks for the suggestions, please keep them coming.
I use a system called Nightowl.

You can buy a small system and add anytime.
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MarinaVanessa 03:11 PM 09-21-2017
I got the Arlo system. I asked my DH about the $50 camera and he got the additional camera from Staples but he had them price match it when Fry's had them on clearance. So this was the best deal I could find at the moment sorry:

One home base and 1 camera for $155
https://www.amazon.com/Arlo-VMS3130-...ds=arlo+camera


One home base and 2 camera's for $269 (extra camera would cost you $114 more than the option above if you get this set)
https://www.amazon.com/Arlo-Security...ds=arlo+camera

Extra camera only $99 (refurbished)
https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Certi...ds=arlo+camera

Or you can get new camera's for $150. Sorry I didn't realize that he had gotten ours at a deal.

There are other similar options too, this is just the option we went with because it fit our needs. We can see a clear picture (HD), we can access the feed on our phones and tablets, night vision is great ... we got ours because my oldest daughter was staying up and messing around in her room on school nights (12yo) or sneaking downstairs and eating ALL of the snacks, as in everything that was meant to last 2 weeks as snacks and as part of her and her brother's lunches would get eaten in one night by her. So the clarity of the night vision is amazing for this.

The first night we set the camera's up she watched us and was salty about it but she didn't say anything. During the night she she got up and I got an alert (we have them set up to be off only at night unless it senses movement). So I watch on my phone as she walks across the living room and into the kitchen and starts to open the snack pantry and I very loudly say into the camera
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"
and she must have jumped 5 feet in the air. That was the last time she tried to go downstairs.

I added a screenshot. Don't mind the mess, nap time just finished and I still haven't tidied up.
Attached: 0002.png (344.9 KB) 
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Unregistered 04:15 PM 09-22-2017
Thanks for the response I will check them out in a few minutes.

It really is about having the monitors where I can glance up and look and they are big enough. I am even looking at setting up a CCTV system with actual small tv's. The screens are so small on the baby monitors that you can't glance and see them across the room much less if they are split 4 ways to include all the cameras.

I am still in research phase thanks for the input.
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Tags:monitor, movement moniter sids, research participants
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