Operating an Unlicensed Daycare

[seashell]

CORI - Criminal Offender Record Information
SORI - Sex Offender Registry

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I just turned in a resident in my town for operating an unlicensed daycare - I inspect daycares in Massachusetts as part of my job. This woman and her husband own a nice home and have two college kids. He, the husband works outside the home, full-time and she has five or six unrelated daycare kids at her house full time, Monday thru Friday. She has a pool, not fenced in and an unfenced yard.

Here in Mass., daycare rules are very strict, for a reason - the state runs Cori and Sori checks, inspects playground equipment - pools, everything! In Mass you also have to carry hefty liability insurance which is expensive. The State promptly came to her house and shut her down. (I knew she was unlicensed because I did my homework and called the State first) I hope she incurred a hefty fine as well. Who in their right mind would run an unlicensed daycare and care for other's children? Full-time daycare in Mass. runs $300 and up per child - I'd like to make about 60 to 70K, tax free, per year.

My son, who is in college, pays 43k per year to go to school - my husband and I have taken out huge loans to help him out and we both work full time and pay huge taxes. It's called greed, plain and simple and a lot of people think they are above the law. Shame on the parents of these children, as well, for not checking to see if this daycare was licensed in the first place. I stewed for about a year about this before I called the state. There is no excuse for this.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you did this for job security purposes.

You inspect licensed daycares for a living, and you narced on an unlicensed daycare?

Yup, selfish personal interest.

And as far as you taking out huge loans to pay for your kids $43k per year schooling.....that's a personal problem. I don't see how that relates the the safety of an unlicensed daycare. Once again, selfish personal interest/jealousy.

The un-fenced pool.....that's not cool....but then again, even in our extremely rural area, we have laws regarding pools and restricting access, even if you don't have a daycare.

[tinytotzdaycare]

Originally Posted by Chickenhauler

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you did this for job security purposes.

You inspect licensed daycares for a living, and you narced on an unlicensed daycare?

Yup, selfish personal interest.

And as far as you taking out huge loans to pay for your kids $43k per year schooling.....that's a personal problem. I don't see how that relates the the safety of an unlicensed daycare. Once again, selfish personal interest/jealousy.

The un-fenced pool.....that's not cool....but then again, even in our extremely rural area, we have laws regarding pools and restricting access, even if you don't have a daycare.

very well said chickenhauler!!

Originally Posted by Missiw22

I was wondering if someone could help me find out what the regulations are for an unlicensed childcare provider in the state of NY. I've been trying to figure it out and keep coming to dead ends because everything I've found is about licensed care! I already do childcare but I've gotten so many contradictory answers from people on another site that I'm really confused now! I don't know where to turn. I want to be sure that I'm following my state's regulations properly.

I live in NY. The law says that if you are unlisenced you may not care for more than 2 unrelated children at one time. If you have 3 children in care, but only 2 at one time, that is legal. If it is family then you are allowed more, but need to apply as a legally exempt provider. I was unlisenced for many years and just recently became registered. I now can be a part of CACFP, where I get a large check per month to reimburse me for serving healthy meals. Call the child care council and they will give it to you straight. They are employed by OCFS.

Originally Posted by Stephan

My next door neighbor appears to be operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area of our sub-division. I know that unlicensed daycare operations can be legal under certain Indiana law requirements. Can you tell me what the law says about operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area in the state of Indiana. Thank you.

Are the children at risk? If not, mind your own business.

What goes around comes around, it always comes back.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I just turned in a resident in my town for operating an unlicensed daycare - I inspect daycares in Massachusetts as part of my job. This woman and her husband own a nice home and have two college kids. He, the husband works outside the home, full-time and she has five or six unrelated daycare kids at her house full time, Monday thru Friday. She has a pool, not fenced in and an unfenced yard.

Here in Mass., daycare rules are very strict, for a reason - the state runs Cori and Sori checks, inspects playground equipment - pools, everything! In Mass you also have to carry hefty liability insurance which is expensive. The State promptly came to her house and shut her down. (I knew she was unlicensed because I did my homework and called the State first) I hope she incurred a hefty fine as well. Who in their right mind would run an unlicensed daycare and care for other's children? Full-time daycare in Mass. runs $300 and up per child - I'd like to make about 60 to 70K, tax free, per year.

My son, who is in college, pays 43k per year to go to school - my husband and I have taken out huge loans to help him out and we both work full time and pay huge taxes. It's called greed, plain and simple and a lot of people think they are above the law. Shame on the parents of these children, as well, for not checking to see if this daycare was licensed in the first place. I stewed for about a year about this before I called the state. There is no excuse for this.

First, I agree with prior poster. Job Security (maybe nosey nelly wanna be do gooder)

Anyways, Your son's college.... Your issue and no one else's. This has nothing to do with the situation or your job. Stupid comment that's all

Second, did you do "your homework" with the IRS?? How do you know she doesn't report it? I was unregistered for years. Guess what. It was all reported. I am now registered and .... Guess what?? It's still reported, but who exactly is making me?? The IRS doesn't know I am registered if I don't tell them so paying taxes has nothing - absolutely NOTHING to do with being registered or not.

There are deadbeats that work "real" jobs that don't pay taxes because they have judgements or just don't feel like paying. So don't make this out to be about freakin taxes and college.

Grow up... Some professional. By the way, it's people like you that keep people from becoming registered.

[gbcc]

Originally Posted by daycare provider

First, I agree with prior poster. Job Security (maybe nosey nelly wanna be do gooder)

Anyways, Your son's college.... Your issue and no one else's. This has nothing to do with the situation or your job. Stupid comment that's all

Second, did you do "your homework" with the IRS?? How do you know she doesn't report it? I was unregistered for years. Guess what. It was all reported. I am now registered and .... Guess what?? It's still reported, but who exactly is making me?? The IRS doesn't know I am registered if I don't tell them so paying taxes has nothing - absolutely NOTHING to do with being registered or not.

There are deadbeats that work "real" jobs that don't pay taxes because they have judgements or just don't feel like paying. So don't make this out to be about freakin taxes and college.

Grow up... Some professional. By the way, it's people like you that keep people from becoming registered.

Another well said point

[HappyCamper]

I have to pipe in here...

Although I've been a registered provider since 2008, I worked for many, many years as an unlicensed provider because I chose to only watch 1 to 3 children at a time. During this time, even though it wasn't required, I received my infant/child CPR certification, Food Handler's certification, was cleared by the criminal data base, and took
continuing education classes in child development. I did this because I wanted to give the best service possible.

So... The moral of the story is... There are many unlicensed providers who pay taxes and give premium service (as I did). On the other hand, there are many UP's who don't follow any health and/or safety guildlines and those are the ones to steer clear of.

[Crystal]

Hi everyone! My name is Crystal. I realize I am new here, and I do not mean to offend anyone, but I'd like to share a story, that explains why I consider a license to be pertinent.

When I opened my program 13 years ago, I went through the licensing process. I knew a lady down the street from my home who, at the same time, chose to operate an unlicensed program, which is against regs here in Ca. unless care is only for one family. I chose to mind my own business, I knew her, she seemed like a fine person, as did her (what I thought was) husband, who did some volunteer work for the elementary school that my children were attending. I did lose out on a couple of potential clients, who decided that cheaper was the way to go, but I figure those parents were only thinking about the bottom line, so I probably didn't want them as clients anyway. She ran her business there for about three years, until one day I noticed helicopters flying overhead. This woman, who I never had an issue with, who seemed to be doing all the right things, had alot to hide, hence the reason for not being licensed. The man living in her home had been molesting her daughter (with Mom's knowledge) and had been molesting two three year olds attending her program for some time. He also had several prior felony convictions for drugs and assault charges and the provider herself had done jail time for other offenses. The man is now serving 25 years to life and she did time as well for not preventing it from happening.

I have kicked myself for years over not reporting her unlicensed program to licensing. I COULD have prevented children from being molested, but I chose to "look the other way" because her unlicensed program was "none of my business". In some regard, I have always felt responsible for what occurred in that home.

That being said, of course there are many, many unlicensed programs that go above and beyond. But without that background check, how do we TRULY know that the people operating these programs are who they say they are? Is it a gut instinct that parents should have about the person they are interviewing?

I will NEVER look the other way again. If I EVER come across an unlicensed program, it will immediately be reported, regardless of how clean their home is, how nice they seem to be, or whether or not I "see" any violations other than not having a license. As they say "never judge a book by it's cover" and I think that applies here.

[gbcc]

Crystal, I understand your point and your concern. However, it is still very possible for that senerio to happen in a registered home. At least in my state. It is up to you to state who resides in your home. You could easily not disclose that information. No one has ever inspected my entire home. They only inspect the area that the children will be playing in. I could have someone move in and store their stuff in my bedroom (not that I would) and never disclose to the registrar that someone was living with me.

Also, as stated before in this tread or another thread (I cant remember). I think a good example out of your story is that cheaper is not always the answer. Parents are all about rates that it is hard to see past the money aspect. Maybe she had a good program, I don't know but chances are she was choosen only because she was cheap. It's aweful those children went through that.

[jen]

Hey Crystal! I hear you and I understand how you feel but really it was the parent's responsiblity to ensure that a background check was performed. Just because a provider is unlicensed doesn't mean a parent can't run the appropriate checks. They can and they certainly should.

Here is another story of a LICENSED home in my area. A licensed daycare provider in a very nice area was running a meth lab out of her daycare. Turns out her brother had been release from prison and moved in with her. She obviously chose not to inform licesning of the change in living arrangements. http://www.methpedia.org/news.php?id=565

Anyway, my point is this. A licensed daycare operator who wants to get around the rules, can find a way. People do it all the time and while being licensed may be a slight deterrant it is in no way a sure thing. You could have reported, and maybe it would have been stopped but more than likely she wouldn't have told them that the boyfriend lived there and just gone ahead and gotten her license based on lie. I'm sure it happens all the time.

[Carole's Daycare]

Originally Posted by jen

Hey Crystal! I hear you and I understand how you feel but really it was the parent's responsiblity to ensure that a background check was performed. Just because a provider is unlicensed doesn't mean a parent can't run the appropriate checks. They can and they certainly should.

Here is another story of a LICENSED home in my area. A licensed daycare provider in a very nice area was running a meth lab out of her daycare. Turns out her brother had been release from prison and moved in with her. She obviously chose not to inform licesning of the change in living arrangements. http://www.methpedia.org/news.php?id=565

Anyway, my point is this. A licensed daycare operator who wants to get around the rules, can find a way. People do it all the time and while being licensed may be a slight deterrant it is in no way a sure thing. You could have reported, and maybe it would have been stopped but more than likely she wouldn't have told them that the boyfriend lived there and just gone ahead and gotten her license based on lie. I'm sure it happens all the time.

Licensing is certainly not a guarantee of quality. I am & have always operated as a licensed daycare, but used both licensed and unlicensed providers when my teenage daughter was young.he unlicensed one was a horrible experience. She sat on her but in front of the TV doing nothing- and I found my 3 yr old playing in the street unsupervised. The provider blamed the child for being naughty, I was appalled. I had done background checks and she and her spouse had no record, she was just lazy and stupid, and I settled because I was in a hurry to find care so I could keep my job. I reported her , and she subsequently became licensed! I hope her quality improved. Every states rules vary regarding the operation of unlicensed care- here it is one family in addition to your own family members. That can still be a large number of children, if one non related family has 2 or 3 kids and you watch several nieces and nephews plus your own. Licensing is expensive yet does little to ensure quality care- many providers barely passed english yet are expected to be your childs primary language influence. Unlicensed care flourishes because these providers are willing to cut rates operating off the books so its cheaper, but they dont incure the costs of training and facility maintenance that a licensed provider does. As long as families are more worried about money than quality they will continue to operate under the radar and unknown to county oversight. The end result is those poor quality facilities make a negative reputation for the profession as a whole, making it difficult for licensed providers to charge a reasonable rate given the overhead costs, or get treated as professionals. That said- the first poster seems to have some personal beef- maybe angry because she cant afford a pool? You seem to focus a lot of vitriol regarding your unhappy finances and life on one misinformed daycare- who probably does pay taxes and may have been watching one or two families and her own and needed simply to be made aware her pool should be fenced in. As for your insane idea that we make tons of money- after my elec and water bill that are twice as high, my exhorbitant grocery bill, the huge cost of daycare insurance, the cost of high quality preschool curriculum and supplies, the constant repair and maintenance of home and yard and replacement of equipment I average considerably less than a county worker for my 5:30 am to6:00 pm workday, not counting all the time to clean, sterilize, do lesson plans, attend required training etc.

[Crystal]

Agreed that any licensed provider can hide things, agreed that licensed does not always mean better, BUT, the probability of a licensed provider hiding things, over the unlicensed provider who did not get licensed BECAUSE they have things to hide is less likely.

The point I was making in my previous post is that I am not ever going to take that chance again, and I have no concerns whatsoever about competition, I am a highly qualified and well regarded professional in my area and my program operates with a waitlist....in fact I'll be the first provider to refer potential clients to my competition if i know they are on the up and up.

[mac60]

Quote from Carole's Daycare "Unlicensed care flourishes because these providers are willing to cut rates operating off the books so its cheaper, but they dont incure the costs of training and facility maintenance that a licensed provider does. As long as families are more worried about money than quality they will continue to operate under the radar and unknown to county oversight. The end result is those poor quality facilities make a negative reputation for the profession as a whole, making it difficult for licensed providers to charge a reasonable rate given the overhead costs, or get treated as professionals."

As an unlicensed provider, I find your theory false and demeaning to many of us providers. I provide a high quality program, I do not cut rates and I do not operate off the books. And other than not paying licensing fees, I too incur the same cost as a licensed provider. Please don't put all unlicensed providers in your generalizations.

[AfterSchoolMom]

I'm going to put myself out there and tell you all that I am not licensed. I do before and after school care only, and in my state you can have up to five unrelated school aged children without being licensed. However, I do pay taxes, I keep my home immaculate, and both my husband and myself have had voluntary background checks done - in fact, my husband has a security clearance for his job. I have a college degree and I am CPR certified. Even though the youngest child in my home is 6 years old, I still keep the chemicals locked up, the garbage covered, the water temp kept at a safe level, and even the outlets plugged, among other safety measures. We even do a fire drill once per month! I do these things because not only do I take pride in what I do, but because I have my own children as well and want to provide the best care for them that I can.

I'm absolutely not saying all of this to "toot my own horn", but rather to stand up for those of us who visit and love this forum and the information and support that we get here, yet on the other hand are made to feel like substandard providers because we don't have a license, including the OP's neighbor - unless the OP has first hand knowledge and proof that this provider is substandard, neglectful, etc...I agree that it would be be better to just try to have a conversation with them neighbor to neighbor. Though I think that the neighbor issues and the childcare issues should be seperate anyway.

[jen]

Originally Posted by AfterSchoolMom

I'm going to put myself out there and tell you all that I am not licensed. I do before and after school care only, and in my state you can have up to five unrelated school aged children without being licensed. However, I do pay taxes, I keep my home immaculate, and both my husband and myself have had voluntary background checks done - in fact, my husband has a security clearance for his job. I have a college degree and I am CPR certified. Even though the youngest child in my home is 6 years old, I still keep the chemicals locked up, the garbage covered, the water temp kept at a safe level, and even the outlets plugged, among other safety measures. We even do a fire drill once per month! I do these things because not only do I take pride in what I do, but because I have my own children as well and want to provide the best care for them that I can.

I'm absolutely not saying all of this to "toot my own horn", but rather to stand up for those of us who visit and love this forum and the information and support that we get here, yet on the other hand are made to feel like substandard providers because we don't have a license, including the OP's neighbor - unless the OP has first hand knowledge and proof that this provider is substandard, neglectful, etc...I agree that it would be be better to just try to have a conversation with them neighbor to neighbor. Though I think that the neighbor issues and the childcare issues should be seperate anyway.

I am a licensed provider, although in the past I have operated as unlicensed. I couldn't agree with you more. I provided equally good care regardless of my licensing status! Not all of us feel about unlicensed providers as some. Personally, if I didn't need to be licensed, I wouldn't.

[Carole's Daycare]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You are way out of line. Just b/c she is inlicsenced it does not mean that she is not followign safety guidlines. There are many licsenced centers that do not follow proper safety codes. It needs to be the responsibility of the parents and the daycare provider. Unless there is abuse or neglect, it should not involve the neighbor.
You should not speculate the reasons of someone who would choose to not become licsenced. You do not know her situation. Perhaps she is just starting out. You are probably unaware but it takes a lot of time and money to become licsenced. The pay is not consistant, and after taking care of expenses it is not as much as you would think. Very few people have the time and money to become licsenced before starting to get families in their daycare. I run a home daycare.I am not licsenced, for a few diff reasons. One is that the work hasn't been consistant enough for me to take the time and spend the money needed to become licsenced. Another reason is that I only plan on being a provider for a few years , until my kids go back to school. And the biggest reason is that None of my parents give a hoot. THey all love me, and it is because I know what I am doing, and they know they can trust me.

Sorry, but if you are operating a "legal" unlicensed daycare, than it's no big deal if someone stops by for a quick visit to make sure. Licensed daycares get unnanounced visits by licensing and food programs. If she's OK, then it was a 15 mn interuption. If not, some children were protected from sub-standard care. Licensing fees are not so high that they are prohibitive in most places, and the benefits financially far outweigh the cost. As a licensed provider you can accept payments from county assistance programs, and at a higher rate than unlicensed. You have to be licenced to participate in the food programs, which, for me at least, subsidize 1/2 or more of my food costs and provide a couple of hours per year of nutrition and USDA guideline training. All that's required is you maintain decent records (assuming you are a legit tax paying provider, you should be doing that), that you feed decent food (once again, a decent provider, unlicensed or not, does that) you maintain a clean home and safe food handling practices (once again...) and you get around 6 visits to your home per year from your food program as well as your licensing inspections. 1 month of food program reimbursement covers the most exhorbitant licensing fees, so no money for licensing is no excuse. My cost was about $190 for licensing and background checks. It took an hour or two of paperwork, completing some basic required trainings and a couple hours home visit and inspection with a licensor to get my license. I pay that $190 every other year. I have a college degree but I get 20-30 hs of continuing education/yr not counting First Aid & CPR, most of which costs $15-$30 per 2 hr class through local Child Care Resource & Referral- (available to LICENCED providers) If you are indeed doing everything appropriately, the only difference is a background check and some inspections to give everyone peace of mind. I have a hard time believing /trusting the good word of all these fabulous unlicensed providers with absolutely no verification- when it sounds like all that's keeping them unlicensed is a few bucks and being willing to have inspections. My cost was less than a video game system. If you have a Wii you can afford licensing. Having clients doesnt make you good. Their are plenty of loving but young or uneducated parents who don't understand what quality childcare is. Thats why we have licensing- for their children's sake. Improved quality and standards in Early Childhood Education, including daycare, will go a long way toward improving results in Elementary Schools and beyond. Even if someone is "nice", reasonably clean or well intentioned does not mean they should be providing childcare services. To have someone who has little education in child development, or even grasp of the english language or basic spelling be your childs primary influence during those crucial early years of development has significant consequences in the long run. It may be a parents responsibility, but ultimately it is society that suffers when childrens needs are not met, and children with parents unable or unwilling to make quality choices still deserve the best we can offer them.

[gbcc]

We all have our opinions, but honestly. If I could make money by not being registered I would not go through the hassel. In my state I can only have 2 children without being registered. I was much happier with my job prior to being registered. There is a lot of unneccassary paperwork. I do understand the safety issues. No complaint on that. But for instance immunizations. If a child has a birthday today and requires immunizations she can not come to care until they are done. Now my doctor wont give shots until the actual birthday. I would never spoil my child's birthday with shots, I don't know anyone that would. But my child could not attend care until the shots were done. That is rediculous. If you were to let them attend you will get a hit as being unsafe on the state website and also a fine. Yes immunizations are important but there should be a grace period. Another issue. My sub could not sub because she bounced a check in 1988. That is rediculous. What does that have to do with childcare? Plus it was 22 years ago. There are other issues I have with the state controlling what we do but I have rambled on enought. I am basically saying honestly if I had to do it all over again, I would have never become registered.

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by gbcc

But for instance immunizations. If a child has a birthday today and requires immunizations she can not come to care until they are done. Now my doctor wont give shots until the actual birthday. I would never spoil my child's birthday with shots, I don't know anyone that would. But my child could not attend care until the shots were done. That is rediculous. If you were to let them attend you will get a hit as being unsafe on the state website and also a fine. Yes immunizations are important but there should be a grace period.

That's simple-find a doctor who doesn't have cranial-rectal insertion syndrome.

Originally Posted by Stephan

My next door neighbor appears to be operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area of our sub-division. I know that unlicensed daycare operations can be legal under certain Indiana law requirements. Can you tell me what the law says about operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area in the state of Indiana. Thank you.

It's not up to you to decide whether this person is capable or should be trusted to watch these children, you can have children in your home without a license. How many children may depend on your state, but it is legal. You are not the parent of any of the children and quite frankly it's not for you to judge. These parents have trusted this person with their children, therefore, this person must be doing an okay job. If not they wouldn't have so many kids.

wow I just came on here to see what the requirements were for running an in home day care. amazing to see how hateful perfect strangers can be to each other... confused is this a informational site or a pi**ing match?

Do not let the State scare you with their anger talk. As long as you love the children - spend quality time with them - thats all it matter. What can they throw you in jail for?. Oh you make MONEY!!? .. Seriously that's what this world is boiling down too - who makes the most money.. And reading topics before mine - unlicensed daycare is just as better as a licensed daycare?.. Yes I agree!!.

I watch the news every day & hear licensed daycares having their licensed revoke due to neglecting child(s) - physical abuse and so on. I'll tell you this - back in the 1970's before the law past that anyone oroviding care for more than two families are required to be licensed!. WELL watching the news everyday for number of years, I see more & more children being sexually,physically & emotionally abused in a licensed daycare. So in another words - back in the years before the law past to be licensed, children were better off in a private home daycare.Being a licensed daycare is STRESSFUL because they're so many strict regulations & the more money you make - the more taxes you have to pay back to the government!. And with a license certificate - the state can come to your home anytime they want & you are not allow to lock them out or you'll have your license revoked!.Being a license family home provider - you have to run the daycare the way the state wants you too.

I'm not talking about spanking a child because that is ABUSE!. I'm talking about semi-structure - close to running a preschool some what.Being licensed with the State - The State OWNS YOUR HOME & has access to your home anytime..So with the State being all over you and owning you - it does make it hard to be licensed & its not fair to the children to fear you,(that your nervous).As a mother myself to four beautiful children - a granddaughter, I do not have a record of being a child abuser. I have a CPR certificate in children and adult. I know how to raise children properly. So many, many family home licensed daycares are opening everyday & alot of those licensed daycares are getting their licensed revoked everydat!. Your better off running a private home daycare.

If you suspect your being investigated because your running a daycare - don't fear because your nothing comparing to those licensed daycares that are being shut down everyday!. My yard is protected with safe equipments & I have been running a private daycare for years.. Parents that have their children in my daycare prefer a unlicensed daycare anyways and refuse to talk to the state because they know they're out to look for trouble..I except checks to and have cashed them for years. What the State doesn't find - you'll be alright. Like I said - it's all money talk and bull**** walks. I mention above - I watch the news everyday,(read the newspaper where the Stare has revoked daycares and were cited into court where the Daycares have got their licensed back). YES the state HAS revoked daycares for wrong reasons and have lost and had to give the daycare providers their licensed back... Believe it or not, they're SO MANY,MANY in home daycares licensed with no High School dIploma.Any High School drop out can get licensed with the State to run a daycare. So again, your better off to be private!. Its less headaches to deal with the State owning your home & you!. I have had suspious vechiles watching me & cops coming to my house. Without a warrant, the cops have to leave. And being watch, I have just as much rights to have them leave.Its Stalking & against the law!. Without evidence and being a proud parent and a Daycare parent - thats all it matters. Your fine & I'm still running a private daycare in my home,(have been for years) & I love it!!.

Children have their freedom, especially during the summer vacation when school is out. But being licensed with the State - children have less freedom and have to have semi school all year around with no break!. Is that fair to the children?...My daycare children can not wait to come to my home & believe it or not, the kids actually kick their parents out.LOL They are happy- go lucky kids!...

[MarinaVanessa]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

More children are hurt at licensed day care than at unlicensed day care.

I am not trying to argue with you but I would like to point out that there may be more REPORTED children hurt at licensed daycare's because of the fact that the provider is licensed. In CA when a child hurts himself we are required fill out accident reports and REPORT them to our licensor. How many unregistered providers and/or parent's are required to do that? And I am talking about any incidents as minor as bruisings. As a parent with a child in a licensed childcare home you well know that if you have any concerns all you have to do is make a phone call to the licensing board and immediately the provider will get a phone call or visit and become questioned and in most cases at least a small investigation started.

When un-licensed and you suspect child abuse or neglect you have to call CPS and that takes FOREVER to even get someone to go to the home. I know because I've done so. In many cases there is no longer proof of the abuse and so they can do nothing. Also when you are licensed you open your home to the licensing board and they can show up un-announced during your business hours to check on things. I think this is great. The best way to be caught doing bad things is when you think no one is looking. If you are un-licensed then no one can just show up to your home so there really isn't any way to tell if there is abuse going on or to catch it in time.

Also, everybody please keep in mind that regulations vary from state to state. Some states require you to be licensed others don't. Some that don't at least require you to register. I think that in the case of the original post Stephan you should first learn about your state's and county's regulation on operating a home daycare are. You can review your areas regulations right here on this site. Then ask yourself why it bothers you. Are the children in danger? Or are they just driving you crazy? If your concerns are genuinely for the well being of the children and your area requires you to be licensed, call the licensing office. If they just need to be registered find out who to call to report it. If neither is needed to care for those kids call CPS. And if it only bothers you because they're too loud, disrespectful, blocking your driveway, parking in your parking spot (street parking is fair game for all), hit your car (ask her for the parent's name and file a police report) or for any other reason other than they're in danger, Why not just walk over and talk to her to address your concerns? When my neoghbors have concerns and address them nicely I immediately talk to the parents (I have clauses in my contract about blocking driveways, noise etc.).

And for everyone else, before I get a blizzard of angry responses, please note that I am speaking of people in violation of their state's laws. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I for one do not appreciate it when I follow all of states regulations and become licenced (In CA you are required) and others don't. Why should some get to pick and choose which laws they want to follow? But again, for all we know she can be following her states regulations and doesn't need to be licensed or registered.

Originally Posted by Chickenhauler

IN HOME DAYCARES PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES.... EVERYTHING is a tax write off-utilities, heat, water, power, garbage, mileage on the car, repairs and maintenance on the home, toys, apparatus, PETS, cleaning supplies, food, furniture, even the lawn mower and any repairs/supplies needed to run it.

Wow, where do I sign up for this?? Those are only tax deductible if they specifically have to do with your daycare and even then only on a time/space percentage. Meaning: You take how much time you take care of kids and the square footage you use in your home and that's the percent that you can use as a tax deductible. Still, it's nice to get up to 40% (sometimes more) tax deductions on everyday things.

[Crystal]

MarinaVannessa, thank you for your post. I agree 100%.

Originally Posted by Chickenhauler

That's simple-find a doctor who doesn't have cranial-rectal insertion syndrome.

I live in florida and I have never found a doctor that will give your Child its shot before its Birthday. But here in florida they have 30 days to update the shot record and you have that after registering your child to get it to them sounds to me like the state is crazy!!!

[AfterSchoolMom]

Everyone keeps talking about how easy it is to get licensed, but the requirements in my area are long, time consuming, and yes, expensive. Also, I know for a fact (as I have a friend in our development who went through it) that I'd be required to install a fence around my property. I can't afford that and my HOA would not approve it without a fight. Licensing isn't required here and I choose not to do it.

Good for those of you who are licensed - I'm not saying it's a bad thing! What I object to is those who automatically assume that I provide substandard care, that I abuse children or am otherwise trying to hide something, or that I'm uneducated because I don't have a license.

I don't think this debate will ever be over!

[momofboys]

Originally Posted by AfterSchoolMom

Everyone keeps talking about how easy it is to get licensed, but the requirements in my area are long, time consuming, and yes, expensive. Also, I know for a fact (as I have a friend in our development who went through it) that I'd be required to install a fence around my property. I can't afford that and my HOA would not approve it without a fight. Licensing isn't required here and I choose not to do it.

Good for those of you who are licensed - I'm not saying it's a bad thing! What I object to is those who automatically assume that I provide substandard care, that I abuse children or am otherwise trying to hide something, or that I'm uneducated because I don't have a license.

I don't think this debate will ever be over!

In total agreement with you! Yes, there are bad providers out there but I hate when people lump all unlicensed providers into this ball of "you are not a good provider b/c you are unlicensed". Simply not true! I have a 4 year college degree, my state does not require licensing & I chose not to become licensed b/c of the expense to do so & the fact that my state does not require it.

[Chickenhauler]

Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa

Wow, where do I sign up for this?? Those are only tax deductible if they specifically have to do with your daycare and even then only on a time/space percentage. Meaning: You take how much time you take care of kids and the square footage you use in your home and that's the percent that you can use as a tax deductible. Still, it's nice to get up to 40% (sometimes more) tax deductions on everyday things.

You can sign up with any good CPA or tax professional.

The tax advantages of operating a home based business are tremendous, anyone who doesn't think so should prepare their taxes twice....once using the same income numbers and expenses under the rules for a home based business, and then re-figure the numbers as if you were an employee (same income, but no business related deductions).

Before you do, be sure you have your nitro pills close by if you have a heart condition.

how about in AZ?

Where can i go to report an unlicensed daycare and does the state of AZ care if a child is in an unlicensed daycare?

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

how about in AZ?

Where can i go to report an unlicensed daycare and does the state of AZ care if a child is in an unlicensed daycare?

https://app.azdhs.gov/ls/online_comp...Complaint.aspx

What is the child to care provider ratio in the state of missouri for and unlicenced provider???

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What is the child to care provider ratio in the state of missouri for and unlicenced provider???

Please see: http://www.daycare.com/missouri/

Originally Posted by mac60

This statement is not true. Just because someone runs an unlicensed daycare, DOES NOT mean they are not following the safety guidelines. I am an unlicensed daycare and follow the guidelines of my state. Just because someone isn't licensed does not mean they do not operate a quality program. I am sure just as there are "bad" unlicensed providers, there are just as many "bad" licensed providers. In my opinion, it simply comes down to people not minding their own business.

i agree totally! when i was going to college for my bachelor's degree in early childhood development (which i now have) i worked at and my own children attended one of the so-called "best daycares" in town. i was disgusted by the place. they always operated at the maximum ratio and i mean ALWAYS. i had more education than my center's director!

i am preparing to start keeping children in my home and i will not be licensed. i can keep up to 4 children without a license - and that's what i'm going to do. just because i'm not a licensed daycare doesn't mean i'm not qualified - i'm licensed teacher, and have more experience/education than most licensed center operators. i like the idea of not being licensed because i can be more flexible. for example, i don't HAVE to take the kids outside just because it's 33 degrees out.

i may get licensed in the future after i see how this works out, but not having a license by no means you are not qualified.

I don't know where you got your information from. But you have to be licensed in Massachusetts to take care of any amount of children. So if you only take one child, you need to be licensed. Even if there is no money exchange, you need to have a license. Please try to understand that when you have that license you are not only protecting those precious children but yourself and your valuble property. So do the right thing and get the license.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When would you say it becomes our business? How about when the parents parking for dropoff/pick-up block the area designated for MY vehicles or MY guests as they hang out and chat for twenty minutes every afternoon? How about when they actually block MY DRIVEWAY? How about when they hit MY CAR PARKED IN FRONT OF MY OWN HOME as they barrel out of the daycare's driveway? How about when a daycare parent parks in front on my home for well over an hour, blocking my garbage can and causing the weekly pick-up to skip collection at my home for the week?


Hmmm?

All happened.

Is it MY business then?

YOUR business should not interfere with me or my residence. If and when it does, then it becomes MY business.

These rules and regulations exist for a reason.

Oh, and btw, I happened to run a LICENSED home daycare for several years. So, yes, you better believe I will report anything not on the up-and-up.

I have some RUDE neighbors who are running an unlicensed daycare and they are constantly interfering with my parking situation and my other very nice neighbors' parking spaces. If they would like me to "mind my own business" then they should stop having their business interfere with my daily living. They should go out of their way to accommodate their neighbors. It just blows my mind that these particular people will not even respond to a nice smile and a "hello" or "good morning." I have no problem turning them in and will do so if I am continued to be pushed.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When would you say it becomes our business? How about when the parents parking for dropoff/pick-up block the area designated for MY vehicles or MY guests as they hang out and chat for twenty minutes every afternoon? How about when they actually block MY DRIVEWAY? How about when they hit MY CAR PARKED IN FRONT OF MY OWN HOME as they barrel out of the daycare's driveway? How about when a daycare parent parks in front on my home for well over an hour, blocking my garbage can and causing the weekly pick-up to skip collection at my home for the week?


Hmmm?

All happened.

Is it MY business then?

YOUR business should not interfere with me or my residence. If and when it does, then it becomes MY business.

These rules and regulations exist for a reason.

Oh, and btw, I happened to run a LICENSED home daycare for several years. So, yes, you better believe I will report anything not on the up-and-up.

why is that? because you are better than the rest of them?? because you were licensed? give me a break. ANYONE can get licensed. doesnt mean that you are better or know more. Not by a long shot.

I live in a townhouse community. Two doors down from me are people renting a small, 3 bedroom townhouse. The couple that seem to permanently live there have been heard having domestic arguments. I banged down the door one afternoon when I smelled smoke and heard fire alarms going off for 10 minutes to have the guy come to the door in a confused state--he either sleeps incredibly soundly or he was drunk or high. I hear the way she screams blue murder at her kids when they're just dorking around like kids do... moving slow, not coming inside when they're told, etc. But she seems to take it to the extreme and screams at them. The kids are little--all under 5. Today I watched an SUV load up 8 kids who had to all be under the age of 5. Given how quickly the kids were shoved into the car, I really have to doubt if they had car seats and seatbelts for them all. I'm worried for the kids and I'm concerned for my neighborhood. THe house has numerous cars coming and going from the house. The people come and go with radios blaring, then people get out and hang around their cars cackling and yacking on their cell phones for 10, 20, 30 mins at a time. THe rest of the neighborhood is a quiet, low key kind of place. I've personally witnessed realtors come in with potential renters/buyers while all of this is going on and I can only imagine what they're thinking. Hoopdy's out front, woman screaming borderline obscenities at their tiny children, 20-something year old fathers high as a kite. In this situation I'm wondering whether to report the place as a possible unlicensed day care--for the sake of those kids and the neighborhood.

[jen]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I live in a townhouse community. Two doors down from me are people renting a small, 3 bedroom townhouse. The couple that seem to permanently live there have been heard having domestic arguments. I banged down the door one afternoon when I smelled smoke and heard fire alarms going off for 10 minutes to have the guy come to the door in a confused state--he either sleeps incredibly soundly or he was drunk or high. I hear the way she screams blue murder at her kids when they're just dorking around like kids do... moving slow, not coming inside when they're told, etc. But she seems to take it to the extreme and screams at them. The kids are little--all under 5. Today I watched an SUV load up 8 kids who had to all be under the age of 5. Given how quickly the kids were shoved into the car, I really have to doubt if they had car seats and seatbelts for them all. I'm worried for the kids and I'm concerned for my neighborhood. THe house has numerous cars coming and going from the house. The people come and go with radios blaring, then people get out and hang around their cars cackling and yacking on their cell phones for 10, 20, 30 mins at a time. THe rest of the neighborhood is a quiet, low key kind of place. I've personally witnessed realtors come in with potential renters/buyers while all of this is going on and I can only imagine what they're thinking. Hoopdy's out front, woman screaming borderline obscenities at their tiny children, 20-something year old fathers high as a kite. In this situation I'm wondering whether to report the place as a possible unlicensed day care--for the sake of those kids and the neighborhood.

If you are EVER, EVER concerned about the safety of a child report.

[HeatherB]

ITA.. the best statement yet on here! I am also an unlicensed home care provider..however OHIO does not require u to be licensed.. I follw all the rules as one and claim taxes also.

Originally Posted by Smiles

I felt I should add to this topic after reading the posts. I am currently an unlicensed home care provider. I owned a large center for 10 years that was licensed. Hard as I tried, my staff didn't always follow the rules when they thought no one was looking. Having a license DOES NOT mean that the rules are being followed. In fact, I think that unlicensed providers work harder to follow the rules because they have more to lose if they dont. If a licensed provider doesn't was his or her hands after a diaper change? They get written up, but they don't lose their business. If an unlicensed provider doesn't wash? It becomes a federal case and she is closed down.

I am unlicensed because I do not believe having a license makes you a good caregiver and I do not believe in the system. I have seen the people who work for the state first hand and I have seen the inconsistancy and lack of knowledge these people posess. I believe child care is between the parent and the provider. End of story. If a parent is happy, they will stay where they are. If they are unhappy, they will leave. Child abuse and neglect is a sad fact of life. But it will happen, license or not. Parents should take responsiblilty to ensure their children are safe. By putting their faith in a system that is outdated, underfunded and often run by people with no background in early childhood education parents have a false sense of trust. Parents visit the daycare everyday. How often does the state visit the center?

Just my 2 cents

[Anna]

IN HAWAII I don't understand why people don't get licensed. It is super easy here. Basically all you have to do is get background checked, FBI fingerprinted, Employee history checked, and have your house checked. you don't have to take any classes or anything. Also here you can only have two children unrelated to you. So if I were a parent I would be a little suspicious of my provider if she wasn't licensed. There are plenty of people who seem so friendly and nice and turn out to be complete lunatics behind closed doors. If I were a parent and was going to bring my children to an unlicensed childcare I would at least ask for a background check. I am in no way saying that any of you unlicensed childcare providers are in anyway lunatics or not fit to watch children.

Also, lets try to be a little civil. You are either a parent or a provider if you are on this forum which means you should be setting examples and acting like adults. There is no need to get immediately defensive and type aggressive things. We all know better than that. If our kids were fighting like some of you are, we would put them in a time out.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Are the children at risk? If not, mind your own business.

What goes around comes around, it always comes back.

Then why should you care? You don't live next door, do you? You don't see what goes on, do you? There are plenty of unqualified people out there looking to make a fast buck who should not even be allowed to have custody of their own children. My opinion is that if you want to run a daycare, rent space in an approved building and stop disrupting your neighbors lives. I doubt they moved there figuring you'd be setting up a glorified babysitting service. Have some respect.

[QualiTcare]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Then why should you care? You don't live next door, do you? You don't see what goes on, do you? There are plenty of unqualified people out there looking to make a fast buck who should not even be allowed to have custody of their own children. My opinion is that if you want to run a daycare, rent space in an approved building and stop disrupting your neighbors lives. I doubt they moved there figuring you'd be setting up a glorified babysitting service. Have some respect.

well, there are some pretty insane people in the world. i have an old nosey neighbor that has NOTHING better to do than keep up with what everybody on our street is doing. i could see her reporting an "unlicensed daycare" even if it the person didn't require a license - just because she's nosey as hell.

this lady is actually my husband's cousin although she's much older than him. she used to come over and talk to me all the time when i was outside....until one DREADFUL day...my children (4 and 6) went to check the mailbox and being the children that they are - GASP! checked hers, too.....

the MINUTE my daughter came in and told me the postman accidentally put the neighbor's mail in our box (LIE!) i sent her to the neighbor's house to return it and apologize.

SHE HASN'T SPOKEN TO ME OR MY CHILDREN SINCE!!!

you'd think they had stolen a check and cashed it or something. if that had been me, i would've thought nothing about it. who CARES!! if things like that are the biggest worries you have in life, consider yourself LUCKY!

reminds me of a song...

If everybody minded their own business
They'd be too busy to worry 'bout mine

- joe nichols

[mac60]

Some people just thrive on being in other people's business. My neighbors Avon lady, who is probably in her 70's, asked me when I saw her at the grocery store how many children I cared for. It is NONE of her business, would I ask her HOW MUCH she makes per month on her Social Sercurity check, how much she makes selling Avon, no I wouldn't, rude and not my business. I gave her an answer, but decided after that moment, if someone ever ask me how many children I care for again, I will simply say "Not enough to pay the bills", because really, it is no ones business how much I make. Just like it is rude to ask another person how much they are paid at their job. I would never to that. Nosy nosy nosy.

Been inside of this persons house and see how she lives? Everyone put's up a front for on lookers outside of the house, but do you know whats really going on inside the house. Shoutiing at the children, filth endangering the childs health, neglect by allowing the child to scream and suffer while the babysitter prefers to talk on the phone or do thier homework etc etc. Theres a lot of things that can be going on in that house that people don't know about. 85% of molested, rape victims were violated during thier childhood by a relative or someone they know like a babysitter. Do your research before you slander someone whos trying to do the right thing. That's the problem with the world today, PEOPLE WANT TO TURN THE HEADS TO DOING THE RIGHT THING INSTEAD OF DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY. IN AMERICA, YOU PAY TAXES TO HELP OUT THE NEEDY. IF YOUR TRYING NOT TO PAY TAXES, THEN YOU ARE TOO SELFISH TO EVER PROSPER IN LIFE.... KARMA IS REAL, NOT JUST HEARSAY!!!!

[mac60]

Huh??????????

[jen]

LOL! Someone needs a haldol!

HOLY CRAP! Jen, I think that the unregistered person just may have forgotten it's haldol!!!

I really don't like it when people post insanity like that! It was the incoherent ramblings that I might expect to hear from someone who has lost touch with reality!

In any case, here in MI, you have to be licensed so I got licensed. I don't know that I necessarily would if I didn't have to. I don't think that not having a license means that you aren't capable of doing the job well. I don't think that people who decide not to get licensed are trying to not pay taxes. CHildren can suffer abuse at licensed daycares as well as unlicensed.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Running an unlicensed daycare does typically say "the type of care you do provide". If it is a state law that you MUST be licensed to run a daycare in your state, then you SHOULD be LICENSED. If you can break that law, what other laws could you be breaking??? It is not difficult to get daycare licensing. The law is there for a reason. It is to govern daycare providers so that they follow the rules and regulations for that business. The state has this law so that in case there is a problem with the care your child(ren) are receiving in a daycare, it can be handled. I myself, as a parent DO WANT A LICENSED DAYARE PROVIDER FOR MY CHILDREN. I am willing to pay the going rate or more for a licensed daycare provider just for the peace of mind of knowing that that provider and whoever is in her household that will be around my children have a complete criminal background check for the safety of my children. Why would anyone put their child's safety or life in someone else's hand without checking them out first. Being a licensed daycare provider, I at least know that the place has to be inspected for safety and that there will be random unnotified inspections that the provider will receive as well as having to go to classes to update her knowledge as being a daycare provider; such as CPR, First Aid, how to discipline, ect. And by the way, what reason would you not have as to getting licensed? Do you not want to claim your income at tax time? Wake up people, there alot of crazy nuts out there as it is, why would you even think about risking the safety of your child. I am not saying that all unlicensed daycare providers are this way but what is the downfall in NOT BEING LICENSED? Besides, being a licensed daycare provider will get you more business. When parents are looking for daycare they usually call the state licensing office for a list of providers in their area. And to be on the side of the licensed providers, I give them much credit for dealing with the crap that they have to go through in order to be a LIGITIMATE LICENSED DAYCARE PROVIDER. My neighbor is also a non-licensed daycare provider and it erks me to no end that she provides daycare to other peoples children when she neglects the 3 kids she has (ages 10, 6, ans 3). I can say this because she pawns her kids as well as her daycare kids off in my yard so that they can play with my children and I end up watching them so that they don't get hurt, while she sits on her A** all day with her husband (who doesn't work because he was fired for watching **** on the computer at his job). This is one of those reasons why I say GET A LICENSED DAYCARE PROVIDER so that everyone that is around your children can be checked out. Better to be safe then sorry. Your child only has 1 life!!! A caring mother in Laurel, Delaware.

I have worked in a licensed daycare facility and know that just because there is a background done on these workers dosent mean that they don't show up to the job stoned or even still drunk from the night before if at all. When they don't show up that leaves the facility short staffed and the teachers in class rooms of 20 two year olds by themselves(hows that for legal). Then the directors are praying that this is not the day that child protective services come in. I am now a mom who choose me as the provider. I am what is best for my children and will eat out less, shop less and make sacrifices to be with my kids. I am aware that not all parents can do this and I do watch a few kids part time to help those parents out. I love each and every one of those kids and have a great relationship with each of the parents. You as a parent should use your own intuition to decide whats right for your family and you shouldn't judge whats right for someone else's.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'll tell what makes it my business.....i have to pay taxes on my earnings. This daycare providers income is hers!!!!!!!!!! She drives a new car (a charger). I guess it pays well. That along with all the welfare she qualifies for because her income is not reported.....yeah, it makes me mad as hell!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like you are just envying the fact that your neighbor has a successful home business that allows her to be home and doing something she loves. I run an unlicensed home daycare with the hopes of opening a licensed daycare facility threw the church that my husband will be called to. My husband is in grad school and I work from home watching 3 children a week on top of the my own 2 children. I also have a new car although its not because my home daycare brings in a ton of money its because my husband and I are able to budget our spending and we spend wisely rather than wasting money on useless items. I report all of my income to taxes I have an EID number for taxes and use quickbooks to document all daycare income coming in how it is paid and who pays it. I report all of this! Maybe if you think she isn't reporting her information or if she is a horrible sitter you should contact someone that can check on her. Also if she isn't making that much money she doesn't have to report it to the government or to qualify for public aid. Maybe you should keep to your own business rather than jumping to conclusions about other people.

I find it funny how people have the time argue with someone on the internet and to assume they know the reason for wanting to know how to report an unlicensed day care. I really don't see why an unlicensed day care provider should be made out to be anything other one big excuse. The whole point to being licensed is to know our children are safe, sure you might be unlicensed and a great care provider but how do any of us know since we're all out at work while you watch our children. No surveyor is going to drop in on you to do a check to make sure you're following guidelines if they don't know about you. If someone wants to report an unlicensed provider they can, don't get so ticked off about it. After all they are following the rules unlike the provider.

The idea that anyone who is unlicensed providing childcare should be "turned in" is ignorant. If someone is clearly violating the exempt childcare provider guidelines(taking more children on then is allowed with the ratio rules) then I can see it may be necessary to report. Here in NY a few things are true, if I have three of my own children I can watch an additional two children though only two of them can be under the age of 2 without being licensed; if I operate a preschool I do not have to be regulated in anyway(no licensing required in Ny state what so ever) scary but true, you cannot turn in a provider who is running a preschool simply for being unlicensed, the State does not regulate preschools in the same way they regulate daycare. You need to know your states rules before you go flying off the deep end about licenses. Many unlicensed providers provide excellent care. Many stay at home Moms are unlicensed providers not interested in jumping through the hoops to get a license mostly because it is a temporary position so they can stay at home with their children too. It is not (contrary to a few posters positions), some sneaky move to hide illegal wrongdoings. If you think a provider is violating rules that place the children in danger whether they are licensed or unlicensed should not make a difference you turn them in.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What are the consequences from operating an UNLICENSED daycare in IL? Is there a fine to pay? I am unlicensed and have run a home daycare for 3 1/2 years now. ALL the parents that I babysit for KNOW that I am unlicensed, it isn't something that I hide. And I claim ALL OF MY INCOME! I give them my SSN at the end of the year with a total of daycare paid. Everything is completely safe but I'm just not licensed. The process is going to require me to take time off AND find a daycare to put my own children in. I'm worried about being turned in for NOT being licensed.

I hate to put the parents out when they DON'T CARE if I'm licensed or not. They are going to have to make other arrangements while I take these classes.

Hello Fellow Illinoisan,
I am in the same boat, want to go from lic. exempt w/ 3 children to more children (the correct ages) and can't honestly afford to close my business for 6 months ? while I wait for licensing. If there is such a shortage of qualtiy dc in Il. then they should do a rush process for these cases where dc is being offered, so that families and myself are not put out.
Any tips or info is much appreciated

Whether a person is registered or not doesn't mean you get better care. Was a registered provide and any tom dick or harry can file a report on you everyday and the state then makes you jump thru hoops just to try and keep your licenses. I understand believe me i have 5 grown kids of my own and we have to protect the next generation. But when you have your whole life and family put thru the mill and all allegations are unfound then you wonder why people don't what to go thru all the hassle of becoming license when your license does little to protect you. I have my credentials in FDC and CDA i go to every possible trainings I can to improve my daycare only to be slapped in the face after 6 yrs of having my own daycare I gave them my license the other day the registor is a nightmare i swear the job has gone to her head. I just feel sorry for all the people I help. I provided care days evenings and weekends and now who's going to do it, i was the only license facility in a 65 mile radius. But unfortunately when it starts hurting my family and other people I have no choice. Then they wonder why people aren't license

Originally Posted by Stephan

My next door neighbor appears to be operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area of our sub-division. I know that unlicensed daycare operations can be legal under certain Indiana law requirements. Can you tell me what the law says about operating an unlicensed daycare in a residential area in the state of Indiana. Thank you.

How do you know she's not licensed? Find out the facts first.

Originally Posted by unregistered

people need to mind there business. If she is not bothering you, then why are you worried. Let that woman make her money. If she was abusing or neglecting the children, nobody would have anything to say. That's what is wrong with the world today, people report the wrong things.

i bet you would if in your neighborhood.

Unlicensed and licensed childcare facilities can be equally bad or appalling. I sent my son to a large licensed center one summer - it was great - and yanked him the next summer because of negligent medical care relating to an untreated asthma incident and a gash on his foot. I put him into a home daycare and she was great! She inspired to start my own; we both run clean, safe and comfortable home daycares for our kids. Our kids love us, and I am teaching my two who go into K next year to read and write, as I want them to be ahead. While WE are both licensed, I also know unlicensed providers in the area who offer programming, outings, and high levels of safety and comfort to their children. Licensing DOES NOT guarrantee a quality or safe program, just hopefully that the provider is not a pedophile and has not had TB. That's it. That's all you get in the end. A super clean home should be a red flag. A home covered in grime and smelling like cat urine should be a red flag. Happy kids in either case are great! Parents have a responsibility to their children to perform due diligence when researching childcare, and to look up any complaints and ask for references - and to know what questions to ask those references.

For the lady whose neighbor is allowing the parents to block her driveway and hit her car - that's not right. Report it as a hit and run. That's what it is. And it's illegal to block someone's driveway. It's just rude. But be careful also, you don't want to make an enemy (unless she is committing some sort of crime there then by all means, make an enemy).

Best of luck to you all.

There is an existing water runoff ditch down one side of my property and I don't want the children to wander over and fall in. It's pretty deep and it's part of the natural features of the property. I'm not allowed to fill it in, as the neighborhood storm water flows into it.

A mobile home recently set up on the property adjacent to my ditch. Septic tank installed, but no water so septic is not operational; nor electricity. About 20 children are being dropped off and picked up at this mobile home. The door remains open and adults and children are in and out of it. Monday through Friday. So far, I'm minding my own business because I unfortunately live in a drug dealing weapon wielding neighborhood.

I'll take my chances on a drive by shooting at my house; I just have to do something. Can't be healthy for the children at all!

Advice?

[SilverSabre25]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

. A super clean home should be a red flag. A home covered in grime and smelling like cat urine should be a red flag.

I'm just wondering why on earth a super clean home should be a red flag? That seems like an odd statement to make.

I also have a neighbor that is not licensed. She is not a stable person. I don't think it is healthy for the children.

hello iam starting my day care unlicensed i moved from ny so i have to be licensed all over again i wanted to ask what is a reasonable rate for caring for a two year old an a three year old partime 3 days a week in my home in provide the food and snacks? .

I am suprised she has enrollment without a license. I wouldn't send my child to a daycare that didn't have a license, not in a million years. Not only is she breaking the law, but what if she is caught and is closed down. Actually that wouldn't happen, they would fine her for every day she has been open without a license, and every day until she gets one. That fat fine might just put her out of business. Don't run the risk, just get the license. Here in Ca. they have stoped issuing licenses, due to budget cuts. There are not enough case workers to keep up with all the licensed daycares. Even in that case if someone was running a daycare without one, I still would not enroll my child. Never, and it makes me wonder about the parents who do go there.

[QualiTcare]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am suprised she has enrollment without a license. I wouldn't send my child to a daycare that didn't have a license, not in a million years. Not only is she breaking the law, but what if she is caught and is closed down. Actually that wouldn't happen, they would fine her for every day she has been open without a license, and every day until she gets one. That fat fine might just put her out of business. Don't run the risk, just get the license. Here in Ca. they have stoped issuing licenses, due to budget cuts. There are not enough case workers to keep up with all the licensed daycares. Even in that case if someone was running a daycare without one, I still would not enroll my child. Never, and it makes me wonder about the parents who do go there.

not everyone has to be licensed depending on the number of children they keep. i wasn't licensed when i did child care because i didn't have to be. i am a licensed teacher and can teach in any elementary school in my state so parents had no problem leaving their children with me. unlicensed doesn't mean inexperienced, illegal, or uneducated. i wasn't sure how long i would stick with it, and i'm glad i didn't get licensed because i did change my mind!

[dEHmom]

This is a late response but I see this post has been going on for some time now.
I couldn't possibly read every single post on this thread, but here is my input...


Unlicensed daycare aren't "Breaking the law". Depending what your state requires.
Lots of families prefer unlicensed dayhomes because they can provide things that a licensed facility may not. Including variable hours.
Most unlicensed day homes will follow the regulations set forth by the the government in terms of cleanliness, food guidelines etc.

I do not disagree with contacting the agency. It's not a matter of minding your own business as much as it is the safety and well being of the children in the care of your neighbor. If in fact she is providing care and following the guidelines, and nothing is awry then she has nothing to worry about. If she is breaking the law, or the welfare of the children are at stake, then rest assured she will be shut down, fined, etc. I hope most parents wouldn't leave their child in the care of someone unable to care for them or provide them a safe environment.

And as mentioned previously, DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY ARE LICENSED OR UNLICENSED, accidents/abuse/neglect can happen anywhere! Heck, even in the churches!
Point here is that you need to know, trust and do your research on anyone you are willing to leave your child with. You wouldn't walk up to someone on the street and say "hey, if I pay you will you watch my child and not abuse her or anything?"

If you have an issue with her and are just looking for a means to hit her where it hurts, well then you would need some help. This is this womans income, regardless of anything else. If you decided you wanted to take up a living by working in your garage building things, making things, fixing cars, and you paid your bills this way, would you want your neighbors calling authorities on you?

I am new also to this forum and have been reading all the threads about this subject. First , I AM an unlicensed home daycare provider going on 28 years now. I first started to do daycare as a favor to a friend years ago when my kids were toddlers. It was just her child and my own, 2 boys. I really enjoyed it and decided to make it my career as I love kids. Checked into being licensed and found out how much it would cost me, which at that time we did not have the money for me to do that and we would have had to changed a lot of things with the house, which we also couldn't afford. So therefor I decided to not be licensed, my choice. For 28 yrs now, I have had no complaints from parents about this and have had NO accidents to the children while in my care.I guess I have tried to be more careful about safety with the kids because I am not licensed. I only have ever taken care of 2 at a time, which is legal. Yes. licensed providers are checked out by the state and can have more children, but I BELIEVE that you can not give the kids the attention that they need and deserve when you have a ton of kids in your care. I have seen licensed providers let kids be in wet and poopy diapers for hours because they can't get to all of them when they need to be changed. That is one thing I am religious about, is that when they are wet or messy, they get changed right away,I only have 2 kids, so I have the time.

What I am trying to say is, that we are just as good providers as licensed providers, and it is up to you as parents to feel comfortable with your provider and trust her no matter if she is licensed or not, it is your gut feelings at an interview and the first few days of care that should tell you if you picked a good provider. I always tell parents to use their first impression of the provider and your gut feelings, if you feel comfortable or not. We are as good a providers as licensed ones, so don't put us down!!!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

People need to mind there business. If she is not bothering you, then why are you worried. Let that woman make her money. If she was abusing or neglecting the children, nobody would have anything to say. That's what is wrong with the world today, people report the wrong things.

The problem is that there are people out there that are doing all the legal steps to make a living in child care and people that are undercutting fees are taking in way to many children making it unsafe for the kids. State licensing is there for a reason. Being registured with the state holds the provider accountable it gives the parents leverage. Parents that want the best for their children should think b 4 they just leave their kids with just anyone. I feel good being able to tell my parents I am cpr and first aid certified, have insurance for any thing that may happen in my home, offer structured loving care and will never have too many children that i can not do my best to give each child what they need and deserve. There is a lady in my town that keeps 20 plus kids in her home by herself and any parent that thinks that is safe for their kid is crazy!!!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

More children are hurt at licensed day care than at unlicensed day care. How does a piece of paper make a difference as to what kind of care you provide?
I know parents that have pulled their children from licensed day care to put them in unlicensed. Here in our town a woman was arrested for abusing(pretty badly) her own daughter and guess what she was a licensed day care provider. Oh and hey the lady down the street has a unlicensed daycare and guess what ....she has never done time or abused any children. So abuse and neglect can happen anywhere at anytime. Just because you have had someone from the state come in and tell you what needs to be done and how to run your business doesn't mean that all Unlicensed day care are bad or hurtful to children!!! Oh and its Spell Check. Not spellcheck!

Abuse and neglect can happen anywhere however the reason you dont hear about unlicensed daycare abuses as much is because alot are covered up, providers are not held as accountable as licensed ones. parents be careful no matter where you choose to have your child left. Ask the right questions if a daycare has to many kids for one person maybe you should look else where. how much is your childs safety worth to you.

[lvt77]

can i ask why it bothers you if she is or is not?? I agree that eveyone should have to follow the rules, but maybe she is not aware of the rules....

Maybe you can ask her, help her instead of hurt her. What about all of those kids...what will happen to them...

she may be the most loving provider and it could devistate those children if they lost her...

even though it may upset you that someone is not following the rules, maybe there is a reason why..

open your heart and mind and reach out to this person so that they dont lose everything they have. If you are a person with a good heart and a soul you would help them instead of hurt them......

You never know what someone else situtaion is.........

I feel your frustration, but do you really know the providers situation?

Having a licensed day care is a huge responsibility. The larger your day care the more people you answer to on a daily basis. You have the children to care for without the children you have no day care, (if the State comes in and closes you down what happens to the children then, will the parents still feel comfortable leaving their children in your care after that?) Your staff needs to be educated and trained properly to care for the children in your care. Meet the health and safety laws that are required of a home day care. This should also include the State day care regulations. You are accountable to State Licensing Agency, Food Program, Liability Insurance company, (this protects you and your business from allegations that can be made against you by a parent or someone who chooses to call you in to Social Services because they are upset with you over something silly. The license is your way of stating that your heart and intentions should be in the right place and you are willing to put yourself and your reputation on the line to care for another persons child. The majority of providers understand whats at stake here they do go the extra mile to put themselves in a bad situation. Situations come from lack of education and not knowing how to protect yourself and your business with less liability. Most allegations are misleading, when the state comes out if your following the rules your allegations will written as unfounded. If your up front and honest with your parents and they know everything that goes on in your day care. They will back you up and support you and your day care. Have written policies in place for parents and employees that cuts down your liability. Know your laws and regulations, yeah you will slip up we are not perfect. The state will always find something that is their job. You also get all the write offs that come with the business when your licensed. Advertising requires that you show your license license number any time you advertise your business and are looking for clients. (On line or in the newspaper) you can be fined for not having a license number. Payroll for your Employees, DOJ clearance on each of your employees, If your unlicensed who is checking up on your help making sure the children in your care are safe and protected from unwanted sexual offenders? How about yourself what kind of guarantee does the parent have that you have a clean bill of health and cleared DOJ/Clear child index record on file. When your licensed, your parents know that you have jumped through all those hoops and everyone in that household over 18 years of age have been cleared and there is a record on all these people should anything go wrong, this protects you. The State keeps track of the people residing in your home. TB tests should be run on the Director to make sure their is no spreading of TB and all Directors and at least one helper should have CPR/Child/Infant, First Aid. You are also accountable to EDD, Workman's Comp, Unemployment taxes, State Disability Insurance, United States Treasury (Federal- for your Self-Employment Taxes), business bookkeeping making sure your cash flow meets the needs of your day care on a daily basis. Large day cares have to have a city permit and be approved by the Fire Department to make sure the children in your care are protected in case of an emergency. It's not fair to the providers who have set up their businesses followed all the laws, pay their taxes on their business while unlicensed providers work under the table and have no legal obligations to follow all the rules we are required to follow. You should have a daily curriculum and activities set up for the children in your care. Yes, licensed providers get written up by the State, as long as your doing your job and your records are in order, and your facility meets the major requirements of the State they are not going to shut you down. Yes, they will hold you accountable for the infractions. But, at the end of the day you have the piece of mind of not having to worry about what's going to happen if someone turns me in for running an unlicensed facility. What happens if a child has a seizure that has been fever induced or someone falls and gets hurt. You have to make an emergency phone call for help. We are required to fill out an Unusual Incident Report which covers us as licensed providers, the emergency providers will file a report with Social Services explaining in great detail the events leading up to the incident and they will report if you are in fact licensed or unlicensed along with how many children were in your care at the time. If your licensed or unlicensed you will get a follow up visit from Social Services with in day or so of that report being sent to them. It's not worth risk of something happening that is out of your control, at that point they are going to scrutinize everything about you, your business, they can talk to the parents, the children, your help, your neighbors you are opening up all areas of your life to the Department of Social Services and heaven help you if they find someone there that has a criminal back ground and no background check or Exemption Status as been issued by the Department of Social Services. I personally would rather fight with all my ducks in row, rather than go in fighting like I may have something to hide by not following the rules and giving them the upper hand in a bad situation that was out everyone's control. This can give then grounds to deny a future day care license to you for endangering the safety and well being of a child while in your care.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

And ya know that is your right as a parent to prefer a licensed daycare provider. However, it is not state law that i be licensed if i only keep certin amount of children.So I'm not breaking the law! Also what makes you think that unlicensed daycare providers donn't claim there income? I pay my taxes just like everyone else. And another thing, you don't have to "licensed" to take child care courses! I am certified CPR (Adult, infant and child) and i also have 15 years of education all related to my career. All paid for out of my pocket! I have excellent references and a clean background. Oh ya, and i did nanny for 5 years for a family. I'm sorry but just because i don't hold that LICENSE doesn't mean that I am uneducated or a bad daycare provider. FYI: i haven't had to advertise for 5 years now, i operate on word of mouth and i also have a 6 month waiting list. Hows that for UNLICENSED.

sounds like you have had alot of experience with children, so why not be legal they have laws in place to protect you as much as the children ,i had a licensed daycare for about 5 years and it was really good ,they came in ever so often to check things out,but also they pay you for each childs breakfast,lunch and a snack.the rules helped me to give the best possible care i could, I look at it like this what would i want for my own kids thats one reason that i became licensed,you may be doing everything right but there are people who really get greedy and it becomes more about the money and less about the children .To me this becomes a real problem & instead of providing great care our children become paychecks i don't know about you all but i'm not willing to take chances with precious gifts God has blessed us with , so thank about this please when you know about illegal daycares,someone has to stand up for the care of our children . precious gifts

I agree that licensed or un-licensed you need to follow the rules of your state. Follow the law...... I have fees, training requirements, lots of paperwork, drop in visits etc... in order for me to be licensed. Who is holding un-licensed to be accountable for proper training in cpr or first aid. I am sure there is great providers and bad providers no matter if you are licensed or not.
It is the business of all if she is not reporting her income and living off of the government and getting huge tax breaks etc. I have to report my income and pay in. Everyone has a story. I would hope in either way honesty is always the best policy and do what your gut is telling you to do is right. Make sure for the kids sake she is following your state laws.
www.daycareheadquarters.com

[dEHmom]

Originally Posted by lvt77

can i ask why it bothers you if she is or is not?? I agree that eveyone should have to follow the rules, but maybe she is not aware of the rules....

Maybe you can ask her, help her instead of hurt her. What about all of those kids...what will happen to them...

she may be the most loving provider and it could devistate those children if they lost her...

even though it may upset you that someone is not following the rules, maybe there is a reason why..

open your heart and mind and reach out to this person so that they dont lose everything they have. If you are a person with a good heart and a soul you would help them instead of hurt them......

You never know what someone else situtaion is.........

I feel your frustration, but do you really know the providers situation?

Good points lvt!

[jen]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

sounds like you have had alot of experience with children, so why not be legal they have laws in place to protect you as much as the children ,i had a licensed daycare for about 5 years and it was really good ,they came in ever so often to check things out,but also they pay you for each childs breakfast,lunch and a snack.the rules helped me to give the best possible care i could, I look at it like this what would i want for my own kids thats one reason that i became licensed,you may be doing everything right but there are people who really get greedy and it becomes more about the money and less about the children .To me this becomes a real problem & instead of providing great care our children become paychecks i don't know about you all but i'm not willing to take chances with precious gifts God has blessed us with , so thank about this please when you know about illegal daycares,someone has to stand up for the care of our children . precious gifts

If you read her post, she clearly states that she is an unlicensed, LEGAL provider. She is complying with the laws in her area.

It is a no-brainer, folks. The laws are the laws. If your STATE requires that a home daycare be licensed if they are watching a certain number of kids, then they should be licensed. For those following the law as listed in posts here, hopefully, if you fall within the guidelines of having children over the minimum, then you will follow those guidelines and get licensed. I can't understand all the bickering back and forth about people minding their own busines, etc. My babysitter is not licensed. She should be because she has over the state limit. I've asked her if she was going to get licensed and she always said maybe. But she doesn't and refuses to giver her SS# so parents can claim taxes on their daycare costs. Now I pay taxes on my income but what, home babysitters are above the law and shouldn't have to? That is ridiculous. Instead, the babysitter is USING the system and having her kids on state medical insurance because she claims no income and her husbands income is used as the only income for a very large household. She is able to buy all new furniture, add a room, and remodel her kitchen all while I incur 1) hospital costs for a 3 day stay in the hospital for my child who got pneumonia from a baby in her care who had pneumonia 2) urgent care bills for a slammed finger in a door and 3) now that I qualify for child care assistance through the state cannot use it with her because she doesn't want to draw any attention to her predictament and take the chance of having to pay taxes on anything. Falling on deaf ears, maybe but people like me end up over-paying because of situations like this.. and YES before getting bombarded, I am looking for new daycare.

[jen]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It is a no-brainer, folks. The laws are the laws. If your STATE requires that a home daycare be licensed if they are watching a certain number of kids, then they should be licensed. For those following the law as listed in posts here, hopefully, if you fall within the guidelines of having children over the minimum, then you will follow those guidelines and get licensed. I can't understand all the bickering back and forth about people minding their own busines, etc. My babysitter is not licensed. She should be because she has over the state limit. I've asked her if she was going to get licensed and she always said maybe. But she doesn't and refuses to giver her SS# so parents can claim taxes on their daycare costs. Now I pay taxes on my income but what, home babysitters are above the law and shouldn't have to? That is ridiculous. Instead, the babysitter is USING the system and having her kids on state medical insurance because she claims no income and her husbands income is used as the only income for a very large household. She is able to buy all new furniture, add a room, and remodel her kitchen all while I incur 1) hospital costs for a 3 day stay in the hospital for my child who got pneumonia from a baby in her care who had pneumonia 2) urgent care bills for a slammed finger in a door and 3) now that I qualify for child care assistance through the state cannot use it with her because she doesn't want to draw any attention to her predictament and take the chance of having to pay taxes on anything. Falling on deaf ears, maybe but people like me end up over-paying because of situations like this.. and YES before getting bombarded, I am looking for new daycare.

So...if you are so unhappy, and she is not following the rules in your state, and your child is not safe WHY would you bring him/her back there for even one more day? Why haven't you contacted the state to report her? Why did you bring your child there in the first place???

People like you should use an unlicensed illegal provider and then have the nerve to complain about it! You are just as much a part of the problem as she it!

My son is at daycare which is unregistered, she has 6 kids in her daycare - but always on demand for money and goods that must be sent to the daycare for the kids but I can see there is no improvement as to what she does with the money. what are the laws of her being in so much demand. she refuses to get registered - Cape Town, Retreat

At the beginning of this strand when the poster asked what his or her state regulations,

Everyone judged and argued before truly asking why they wanted to report. Up to five kids-fine, taxes-gray area as a professional childcare provider and one subsidized daycare owner I can say we don't make much with those low ratios. But I found my way to message board to try to find out how to report an a home daycare I recently assisted at. There were regularly 15-22 children in the home, it was filthly, and her care for child 2 years and above was to put them in of two rooms to watch televison and play video games. If they came out the rooms other than to use the restroom they were lterally yelled at to go back to the room and sometimes "swatted"!

Infants and toddlers were locked in room for hours with fan on so as to dull their sreaming because as she put it "there was nothing else to do with them". When I briefly cuddled an ill infant she asked me not to hold the babies so they did not "get spoiled."

She wiped childrens faces and hands with same rags used to wipe counters, tables, and floors. Her idea of me assisting her was to leave alone all day and come there only during child drop-off and pick-up so the parents thought she was there all along. She made at $3,000 a week and didi report any. So much ,in fact, that the home daycare was her first home, the home she and family lived in is a much larger home in nearby, nicer neighborhood.

So, yes-there is for consistant oversight and liscensing. Come on people, we are talking about here!

My kids were going to an unlicensed daycare. That said. My lady was really good, until she started getting greedy. She fired my daughter after leavinig her outside all day for time out. YES FOLKS OUTSIDE!!! She has about 15 to 20 kids at any given time, and about almost all of them, are under the age of 3. She doesn't pay taxes on more than $3K per child, because thats all you can benefit from in the Child Care Credit world. So this gal, is pulling in 150K a year and only claiming on about 45K per year.

It is the responsibility of the parent, as it was mine, to find the best care for my child. I kept turning a blind eye. After the incident above, I was ready to pull my baby girl anyway.
Bottom line, it is not anyone's business to decide if it is a good daycare or not based on licensing, it is our responsibility as a parents to put our children in good hands. So shame on us if we didn't/don't.

The real question is WHY isn't she licensed? Of course it's our business. If someone is operating a business outside of the law that requires a license then it is against the law. What if a doctor in town was running a clinic without a professional license? These protections are in place for the safety of children and respect for the market.

If she is operating a legally unlicensed child care business, then unless we see neglect or abuse it is none of our business.

Sorry for the anonymous post; I'm not registered for this site yet, but I just had to respond.

Kathy Scovill

[JenNJ]

I agree that each daycare needs to fall within guidelines from the state but until parents demand it and refuse to use those who don't follow the rules, it will continue.

In my state a provider doesn't need to be licensed for up to 5 kids. I am upfront with my clients and tell them 5 is my limit BC I don't want to take days off 6 extra days this year for ridiculous classes like diaper changing 101 when I have a CDA, tons of CE courses, and I was a preschool teacher and nanny before I became a mother.

Communication is key!!!!!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"People need to mind there business. If she is not bothering you, then why are you worried. Let that woman make her money. If she was abusing or neglecting the children, nobody would have anything to say. That's what is wrong with the world today, people report the wrong things."

First of all, get yourself a spellchecker.....it's THEIR not THERE. Further, unlicensed daycare cast a pall upon all the good care providers out there that follow the law. What's wrong with the world is people like you that think only certain laws and statutes are important. Operating an unlicensed day care is the equivalent of operating a restaurant without the proper safety and cleanliness guidelines. If the woman wants to "make her money" then let her comply with the same statutes and laws that licensed day care facilities must abide by.

...and you need to see a licensed english teacher "is the equivalent" should be is the equivalence, moving right along. who are you to make the assumption that her home isn't up to par to care for children and if you were really worried so much that you came on the internet to question the credentials of a care provider you should have saved face and called your local health dept.or family and social service office..quit meddling and hating off the next woman and her hustle! jealousy wont get you anywhere in life...she must be making more money than you

Originally Posted by Unregistered

People need to mind there business. If she is not bothering you, then why are you worried. Let that woman make her money. If she was abusing or neglecting the children, nobody would have anything to say. That's what is wrong with the world today, people report the wrong things.

What if you're not sure if the person is doing something illegal with the children, but you notice how unsanitary she is; leaving dirty diapers tied in bags outside the door all day long in the heat attracting flies & gnats? Makes me wonder what the inside is like or if she just sweeps trash to a hidden location while the parents are dropping off the children. How about when they are blocking the entrances & exits & you try to reason with your neighbor, but she is so crazy she threatens to call the police & when they show up they tell her that SHE is becoming a nuisance for calling for no reason & threaten to lock her up if she calls again because she & her guests are at fault since there is a NO PARKING sign where they like to park & congregate. I have no problem with people making their money, but when it starts to interfere with my world, it becomes MY PROBLEM!!! The problem with world today is that people like you don't care enough!!!

[cheerfuldom]

just my two cents, I am currently unlicensed and am not legally required to be licensed. I am aware of the state regulations and programs and do not see licensing to provide any advantage to my program nor am I wanting to increase the number of kids here. I have no problem keeping my spots full and all of the parents are aware that I am unlicensed (but still "legal"). Some people are like me and have the education, etc, etc to be licensed but just don't. That doesn't reflect the quality of care the kids here receive.

Originally Posted by Janet

HOLY CRAP! Jen, I think that the unregistered person just may have forgotten it's haldol!!!

I really don't like it when people post insanity like that! It was the incoherent ramblings that I might expect to hear from someone who has lost touch with reality!

In any case, here in MI, you have to be licensed so I got licensed. I don't know that I necessarily would if I didn't have to. I don't think that not having a license means that you aren't capable of doing the job well. I don't think that people who decide not to get licensed are trying to not pay taxes. CHildren can suffer abuse at licensed daycares as well as unlicensed.

I totally agree I had my 2 children in a licensed childcare in Michigan and they never wanted to go I couldn't figure out why. I switched and started having a friend watch them (who is not licensed) A few months later the old child care was shut down and under investigation apparently she was allowing her son (who was 12) to take baths with the younger kids and he was molesting them. Yup doesn't make one bit of difference if you are licsened or not it is the person that is caring for you children that matters!

Those of you who believe that people should "mind their own business" with regards to illegal day care are completely ridiculous. The original question asked here was whether or not this person should report what she/he believes to be an illegal, or unlicensed, day care center. The first few responses to the original posting were obviously from people in similar situations as the person running the illegal day care because the tone of their responses was extremely defensive. You didn't bother to give a yes or no with an argument to back up your position. Instead you followed it with another questions..."how do you know it is illegal?". What does that matter? The question is should I or should I not report it. All I need from you is a yes or a no and why. The fact that someone is intentionally sidestepping the established laws doesn't seem to factor into your argument at all. What it comes down to is this...if it is run illegally then it should be reported. If the law is on the books and is not being followed, then it is a crime. Period! We all have an obligation to report a crime we know, or believe, to have taken place. This is a fundamental responsibility we all share as citizens. For those of you who are not citizens, it applies to you as well. The only people who would not report these crimes are those who would commit them themselves.

[jen]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Those of you who believe that people should "mind their own business" with regards to illegal day care are completely ridiculous. The original question asked here was whether or not this person should report what she/he believes to be an illegal, or unlicensed, day care center. The first few responses to the original posting were obviously from people in similar situations as the person running the illegal day care because the tone of their responses was extremely defensive. You didn't bother to give a yes or no with an argument to back up your position. Instead you followed it with another questions..."how do you know it is illegal?". What does that matter? The question is should I or should I not report it. All I need from you is a yes or a no and why. The fact that someone is intentionally sidestepping the established laws doesn't seem to factor into your argument at all. What it comes down to is this...if it is run illegally then it should be reported. If the law is on the books and is not being followed, then it is a crime. Period! We all have an obligation to report a crime we know, or believe, to have taken place. This is a fundamental responsibility we all share as citizens. For those of you who are not citizens, it applies to you as well. The only people who would not report these crimes are those who would commit them themselves.

OR..we could just let parents decide what they want for their kids. By the way, do you follow people around and call the police when the jaywalk, speed or litter? Those things are against the law too.

The reason people are asking *WHY* do you think the daycare is illegal is because we don't want people calling up to report every daycare provider that they see based on a hunch that they might be...

By the way...I AM a licensed provider and there is an unlicensed illegal daycare across the street from me. I wouldn't dream of reporting her so your assumption that the only people who wouldn't report are those who would/are commiting these "crimes" isn't correct. I have never seen anything that appears to be abusive and therefore I wouldn't report. PARENTS can decide for themselves if they want to go with a licensed provider or not.

Originally Posted by commonsense

Yes, you should care. If that person is running an unlicensed daycare, they most likely won't be following safety guidelines either. In this day and age, unfortunately, people are really messed up. If you have concerns. Call. The authorities would much rather check it out and it be fine then you not call and the children be not taken care of properly, or worse.

everyone should care i know someone that is running daycare from the home at times 10 - 12 children w/o help God forbid there was a fire she could get herself out and her 3 kids what about the rest . if she was licensed saftey guidlines would have been followed ( which they are not ) and that is why it should be everybodys business to look out for the small children

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

everyone should care i know someone that is running daycare from the home at times 10 - 12 children w/o help God forbid there was a fire she could get herself out and her 3 kids what about the rest . if she was licensed saftey guidlines would have been followed ( which they are not ) and that is why it should be everybodys business to look out for the small children

This is the thread that goes on and on and on and on......

FTR, I am licensed for 10-12 children ALONE WITHOUT HELP. It is fully within my licensing guidelines to have that many children without the requirement of another adult or even a helper to be present. I practice fire drills on a regular basis. Please do not assume all providers operate illegally. Every state has a different set of rules and they seem to vary greatly.

You are right though, it should be everyone's responsibility to look out for small children however, it should also be everyone's responsibility to know the rules and guidelines if they are going to concern themselves with someone else's business...kwim?

[jen]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

FTR, I am licensed for 10-12 children ALONE WITHOUT HELP. It is fully within my licensing guidelines to have that many children without the requirement of another adult or even a helper to be present. I practice fire drills on a regular basis. Please do not assume all providers operate illegally. Every state has a different set of rules and they seem to vary greatly.

Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by mac60

This statement is not true. Just because someone runs an unlicensed daycare, DOES NOT mean they are not following the safety guidelines. I am an unlicensed daycare and follow the guidelines of my state. Just because someone isn't licensed does not mean they do not operate a quality program. I am sure just as there are "bad" unlicensed providers, there are just as many "bad" licensed providers. In my opinion, it simply comes down to people not minding their own business.

Well I was an Registered Child care in Iowa and a Licensed Child care in California and I am no longer taking care of children because my "Licensed" Child care in California required that I carry a $1,000,00 insurance policy, not only on the kids I took car of which I didn't have a problem with that , but I also was REQUIRED to carry a $1,000,000 policy on the Superintendent of Schools here. When I questioned why I needed to have a Childcare policy cover the Superintendent of Schools office, I was told so they can be sure I am insured, when in fact the Super, of Schools here is also the overseers of the Foster Care Program and due to the many Foster Cares that have either abused children or placed kids in Foster Cares that have actually been directly responsible for the deaths of children in their Licensed foster cares that the state was running out of money and the state could no longer take on the burden of the lawsuits that resulted from those deaths. Having been on both ends of the issue although I was never un registered, I am 4 square against the licensing of Child Cares and am in favor of Registering Childcare homes. When the state gets their grubby hands in peoples jobs in the name of "LICENSING", then the people not longer have rights, and are forced to unreasonable requirements that completely run the good facilities out of business in the name of regulations. I was Registered and Licensed for over 25 years and licensing regulations ran me out of business because I was the provider who took kids no one else wanted. There are good Child care homes and facilities and I guarantee you that requiring me to carry an insurance policy in the amount of $1,000,000 dollars, would not make me a better childcare......Oh I forgot to mention that the only entity that I could get to carry a $1,000,000 policy on the Super of Schools office was the state itself, thus generating more income for the state from the lowely child cares. Go figure!

[sharlan]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well I was an Registered Child care in Iowa and a Licensed Child care in California and I am no longer taking care of children because my "Licensed" Child care in California required that I carry a $1,000,00 insurance policy, not only on the kids I took car of which I didn't have a problem with that , but I also was REQUIRED to carry a $1,000,000 policy on the Superintendent of Schools here. When I questioned why I needed to have a Childcare policy cover the Superintendent of Schools office, I was told so they can be sure I am insured, when in fact the Super, of Schools here is also the overseers of the Foster Care Program and due to the many Foster Cares that have either abused children or placed kids in Foster Cares that have actually been directly responsible for the deaths of children in their Licensed foster cares that the state was running out of money and the state could no longer take on the burden of the lawsuits that resulted from those deaths. Having been on both ends of the issue although I was never un registered, I am 4 square against the licensing of Child Cares and am in favor of Registering Childcare homes. When the state gets their grubby hands in peoples jobs in the name of "LICENSING", then the people not longer have rights, and are forced to unreasonable requirements that completely run the good facilities out of business in the name of regulations. I was Registered and Licensed for over 25 years and licensing regulations ran me out of business because I was the provider who took kids no one else wanted. There are good Child care homes and facilities and I guarantee you that requiring me to carry an insurance policy in the amount of $1,000,000 dollars, would not make me a better childcare......Oh I forgot to mention that the only entity that I could get to carry a $1,000,000 policy on the Super of Schools office was the state itself, thus generating more income for the state from the lowely child cares. Go figure!

I'm sorry, but I do not understand this post. In CA you do not have to have liablility insurance for daycare. I've never had it.

The superintendent of schools has nothing to do with family daycare.

Are you talking about a foster care home?

[familyschoolcare]

Originally Posted by sharlan

I'm sorry, but I do not understand this post. In CA you do not have to have liablility insurance for daycare. I've never had it.

The superintendent of schools has nothing to do with family daycare.

Are you talking about a foster care home?

perhaps she was trying to be licensed 24/7 in cal. in order to do that you have to be licensed as a foster care home

Any one that is UNLICENSED is UNLICENSED for a reason -- they do not follow the rules otherwise they would see to it to be LICENSED even if it was not required for the number of children they keep. People that babysit inside their homes are usually uneducated to begin with-- or they would set up a proper business.

Originally Posted by jen

OR..we could just let parents decide what they want for their kids. By the way, do you follow people around and call the police when the jaywalk, speed or litter? Those things are against the law too.

The reason people are asking *WHY* do you think the daycare is illegal is because we don't want people calling up to report every daycare provider that they see based on a hunch that they might be...

By the way...I AM a licensed provider and there is an unlicensed illegal daycare across the street from me. I wouldn't dream of reporting her so your assumption that the only people who wouldn't report are those who would/are commiting these "crimes" isn't correct. I have never seen anything that appears to be abusive and therefore I wouldn't report. PARENTS can decide for themselves if they want to go with a licensed provider or not.

No kidding, doing this forever I can honestly say I've seen just as many bad licensed daycares as non licensed, and vice versa. In my state they don't have to be licensed, but looking into everything I don't see where licensed is an advantage to anyone except the state. A lady I know chose to get licensed as a group home, and she put her husband on since he was home and retired. Guess who really watched the 10 children? And maybe she is really good... but I don't think it makes a hill of beans, and many parents do know the license doesn't make a difference. Many clients come from the larger daycares that are licensed and warehouse kids, and all I ever hear is biting, aggression and basically a lack of one on one.

This is the thread that goes on and on because you will always have people that are jealous instead of productive. They like to see what's on everyone elses plate because it just might be better.

[sharlan]

Not feeding the trolls.

Originally Posted by ms.sue

my question is the same as one of the other posts ---how do you know 100% that this person is un-licensed???????????????????

Ms.sue

you can go to city hall or just call give them their address and they will tell you if they have one or not.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Any one that is UNLICENSED is UNLICENSED for a reason -- they do not follow the rules otherwise they would see to it to be LICENSED even if it was not required for the number of children they keep. People that babysit inside their homes are usually uneducated to begin with-- or they would set up a proper business.

just for the record, I watch children in my home without being registered. This does not mean that I am uneducated, as I am not. I am doing this so I can spend more time with my own children as well as give some people an option to more affordable daycare for their children. The reason I am unlicensed is because I would rather spend time with my kids than filling out paperwork! I am CPR certified, have been through several child care classes, and love being around children. This is why I do what I do, not because I am not capable of anything else. I have ran my own business and it doesn't compare to how happy I am now.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It is a no-brainer, folks. The laws are the laws. If your STATE requires that a home daycare be licensed if they are watching a certain number of kids, then they should be licensed. For those following the law as listed in posts here, hopefully, if you fall within the guidelines of having children over the minimum, then you will follow those guidelines and get licensed. I can't understand all the bickering back and forth about people minding their own busines, etc. My babysitter is not licensed. She should be because she has over the state limit. I've asked her if she was going to get licensed and she always said maybe. But she doesn't and refuses to giver her SS# so parents can claim taxes on their daycare costs. Now I pay taxes on my income but what, home babysitters are above the law and shouldn't have to? That is ridiculous. Instead, the babysitter is USING the system and having her kids on state medical insurance because she claims no income and her husbands income is used as the only income for a very large household. She is able to buy all new furniture, add a room, and remodel her kitchen all while I incur 1) hospital costs for a 3 day stay in the hospital for my child who got pneumonia from a baby in her care who had pneumonia 2) urgent care bills for a slammed finger in a door and 3) now that I qualify for child care assistance through the state cannot use it with her because she doesn't want to draw any attention to her predictament and take the chance of having to pay taxes on anything. Falling on deaf ears, maybe but people like me end up over-paying because of situations like this.. and YES before getting bombarded, I am looking for new daycare.

I realize this is a old post, but I had to respond because it's so full of holes and b.s.
You decided to use a "babysitter" because you were getting a smoking deal, and you figured it out, and determined you were going to still come out waaay ahead not making her pay the taxes. Then at the end of the year knowing she is a home sitter you got greedy and demanded her Soc. Sec. You wanted even a bigger break.. Did you ask her for a tax i.d.? And for one I would never give out my social either. Basically you knew this in the beginning, and accepted the terms and decided to cry wolf later. And yes I pay the taxes, but as a home sitter most parents do not ask for a tax i.d. and fyi I am completely legal. That was YOUR responsibility in the beginning.

Hard to believe BUT there are many parents that realize sitters have a hard job, they provide great care and they are getting a good break, and often don't ask. Really it is your job to find that out in the beginning, her taxes are her business, and how she spends her money.
Do you really think most people care if sitters are paying all of their taxes? You might want to investigate where your social security payments are going, and how well that gov't entity is managed, lol.

Your post is mainly about sour grapes which you didn't mention because I suspect it has nothing to do with the taxes. And btw you can still claim without her social...but I suspect you'll have issues with your next sitter. Hopefully she doesn't remodel her kitchen or buy new furniture!

I have an in home unlicensed daycare, and I love what I do. I will admit that getting it started was very hard and my husband and I had some hard times trying to pay our bills while I was doing it. I will also like to admit that i do not pay taxes on the income that I make weekly. I have only been doing daycare for 3 years now and have just now got to a point where I am making money. I only charge 75 per week so I provide a service to people who cannot afford licensed daycares and every parent knows I am unlicensed and I do not pay taxes on my income. I am very good at what I do and the kids are happy here. I am BARELY making a profit at all afetr food, drinks, crafts, toys, electricity, toiletries, etc.

Now on the subject at hand...

I think that there are unlicensed and licensed daycare that should NOT be open and I have no idea why people would take their kids there in the first place. The pool is no big deal as long as she is watching the kids and they arent out there playing around it. She should have respect for you and your house and if she is aware that she is affecting your income, maybe that should be something that you could talk to her about like adults.

I personally don't want to get licensed because of the fact that those people can come into my home anytime they want and if they see something that they don't like, they will take my kids! Drug addicts, alcoholics, people who have no business having kids all don't have to worry about keeping their kids but I can't spank my kids in Walmart fr throwing a fit.... You just never know anymore if what your doing with your kids coincides with the laws. The laws contradict themselves. You can't whoop your kids but a certain way and your kids aren't allowed to get into trouble without the parent getting into trouble, but discipline is not allowed... craziness. Anyways, I'm sure some of you women have something to say so lay it on.

Daycare being run out of a rented condo. Landlord not aware . individual there for 4 months on section 8. damage to the toilet , electrical outlets, and ceiling from toilet being broken. Landlord being told each time something is broken multiple number of children being cared for approx. more than 6. In California is there any law to help the landlord remove this tenant who is very difficult to deal with in regards to property damage.

[familyschoolcare]

Sorry. but this is not what you want to hear but it is the truth.

In California the landlord can not stop someone from running a licensed day care on the property.

http://www.childaction.org/providers...ord_Issues.pdf