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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>parents throwing a fit over new rule
daycare 12:45 PM 06-26-2012
I do field trips all of the time. I plan these for the DCK.

Well most of my mom's are SAHM. They often want to attend these functions with us, which I don't have a problem with, as long as they take their kid with them when they leave.

THe new rule that was added is that I am not allowing for the DCP to bring siblings, young family members or friends. I need to be able to focus on the group that I have and not have to deal with a ton of other kids.

Do you think that I am being out of line? Some of my DCP always have young friends or family with them at pick up and several times I have had to ask them to go outside do to behavior.

What is your thought on this? Should I drop it or should I continue to put my foot down.
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Country Kids 12:53 PM 06-26-2012
Stick with it!!! Alot of schools, centers, etc have this very same rule so why wouldn't it apply to you. Anytime I do anything with my child in the schools, I always checked to see if I could bring siblings/dcks to the function first. They were usually pretty good because they knew my circumstance but I always checked first.
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cheerfuldom 12:53 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I do field trips all of the time. I plan these for the DCK.

Well most of my mom's are SAHM. They often want to attend these functions with us, which I don't have a problem with, as long as they take their kid with them when they leave.

THe new rule that was added is that I am not allowing for the DCP to bring siblings, young family members or friends. I need to be able to focus on the group that I have and not have to deal with a ton of other kids.

Do you think that I am being out of line? Some of my DCP always have young friends or family with them at pick up and several times I have had to ask them to go outside do to behavior.

What is your thought on this? Should I drop it or should I continue to put my foot down.
continue to put your foot down. you could get in a huge mess if one of these random kids get hurts on an activity you planned, whether they are daycare kid or not. There is some liability involved in having these extra people along for the trip that you dont necessarily have control over. Plus, your service is a daycare service, not a play group.

Are people complaining about this rule and getting confrontational? or are they just disappointed that things are changing a bit?

I would follow up with a letter explaining why, if you havent done that already. Focus on stating that you are doing your best to take care of the children currently enrolled in your daycare and are not able to do your job to the fullest if you have other kids tagging along. You can also blame it on licensing or insurance rules...being out of ratio and whatnot. OR you might consider offering a few spots for each trip where the parent pays your daily drop in rate so their child can come with your group for the day and be assured to have the supervision/ratio that you feel okay handling.
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Willow 12:59 PM 06-26-2012
I'm surprised you even let parents come along! I'd worry about having too many cooks in the proverbial kitchen spoiling the dynamic of the group.

You're not at all out of line, and in my opinion you've already been beyond accommodating as it is!
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youretooloud 01:11 PM 06-26-2012
I wouldn't mind the field trips so much, but there is NOTHING I hate more than parents who come in with a pack of older kids who want to come in and play. I've had kids i've never seen come in and trash a cleaned room in less than five minutes, then the parents just think it's no big deal. Like I'm a free playground or something. The chaos it causes is huge.
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Heidi 01:41 PM 06-26-2012
Well...we recently had this same situation at school.

One of my dcm's mom was attended a field trip, and had to bring dcb along because I was closed that day. He is the younger sib of her schoolager. It was take dcb or she couldn't go to chaperone.

Since she was providing her own transportation and it was a public place, and she was paying any admission, I don't think the school should say "you cannot bring younger sibs". Nor do I think it's very nice, really.

When my oldest two were in school, sibs were always welcome on field trips. It was part of the family-friendly atmosphere at the school.

BUT....


I do understand what you are saying, though, and it is your daycare, so you have to decide your rules. For me, personally, I would say as long as the parents are meeting us there and providing their own transportation, and as long as they take ALL their children home afterwards, I wouldn't say no. Last winter, I organized a trip to a local (indoor) water park. Because we had so many dck's, sibs, and friends, they gave us a great deal!
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Blackcat31 01:44 PM 06-26-2012
What does your liability insurance say about it?

My insurance covers enrolled/registered daycare children and their custodial parent only. This is for any funtion or activity we are doing during normal business hours.

Maybe you could use insurance as a reason to not have sibs tag along if you don't want them to.
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daycare 01:53 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
What does your liability insurance say about it?

My insurance covers enrolled/registered daycare children and their custodial parent only. This is for any funtion or activity we are doing during normal business hours.

Maybe you could use insurance as a reason to not have sibs tag along if you don't want them to.
my insurance is kind of grey about this because of the fact that it is off site in a public meeting area. So I could use that excuse, however, LIC states that I have to be within my regulations at all times. Off site or on....

HOWEVER, LIC also states that since the parent is present, that they are the one assuming the responsibility. What sucks is if that kid does something to one of my kids, I am still responsible.........Not too sure how that is fair....
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cheerfuldom 02:00 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
my insurance is kind of grey about this because of the fact that it is off site in a public meeting area. So I could use that excuse, however, LIC states that I have to be within my regulations at all times. Off site or on....

HOWEVER, LIC also states that since the parent is present, that they are the one assuming the responsibility. What sucks is if that kid does something to one of my kids, I am still responsible.........Not too sure how that is fair....
well obviously licensing is holding you responsible to a certain extent because you are responsible for your own kids and that includes their environment and who they are around. Its vague but definitely a reason that you can use in order to give some sort of explanation to the parents.
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grandmom 02:11 PM 06-26-2012
As a family provider, I'm always bugged by older siblings coming in with the parent. They run for the toys. I'm always worried that they will get hurt, leave the gate open, anything. I'm thinking of adding a statement to my parent handbook saying children not currently enrolled must be right with the parent. Anyone got any ideas?
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daycare 02:12 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
well obviously licensing is holding you responsible to a certain extent because you are responsible for your own kids and that includes their environment and who they are around. Its vague but definitely a reason that you can use in order to give some sort of explanation to the parents.
When I told the parents this, they came back with well what are you going to do about all of the other people and children that will be present in the PUBLIC place that you are taking them. They have a point, just not valid enough for me.
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BumbleBee 02:14 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I do field trips all of the time. I plan these for the DCK.

Well most of my mom's are SAHM. They often want to attend these functions with us, which I don't have a problem with, as long as they take their kid with them when they leave.

THe new rule that was added is that I am not allowing for the DCP to bring siblings, young family members or friends. I need to be able to focus on the group that I have and not have to deal with a ton of other kids.

Do you think that I am being out of line? Some of my DCP always have young friends or family with them at pick up and several times I have had to ask them to go outside do to behavior.

What is your thought on this? Should I drop it or should I continue to put my foot down.
Personally I think it's a great rule. Many people do not like change if it affects them but does not benefit them. Last year at the center we did our annual field trip to the pumpkin patch and many parents came along. They also brought siblings who were not enrolled at the center. At one point a number of parents got to chatting and not watching their kids. I ended up having to supervise 10 kids, 6 of whom were not enrolled at the center. Nobody got injured but what if they had? This is exactly the reason I think you should put your foot down and keep the rule.
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daycare 02:21 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
Personally I think it's a great rule. Many people do not like change if it affects them but does not benefit them. Last year at the center we did our annual field trip to the pumpkin patch and many parents came along. They also brought siblings who were not enrolled at the center. At one point a number of parents got to chatting and not watching their kids. I ended up having to supervise 10 kids, 6 of whom were not enrolled at the center. Nobody got injured but what if they had? This is exactly the reason I think you should put your foot down and keep the rule.
This is exactly why.....Parents come in and want to make it social hour, while I would love to, it takes away from my ability to care for the other kids in care. I told the parents that if they want to socialize they need to do it off of my property. My insurance will consider it my problem, until they are completely off my property.

I quit going to the library reading hour because all of the SAHM woudl come and use it as a time to socialize, let their kids run around the room and poor lady running it had no control over any of it....It was pure chaos..

Thanks everyone for responding, I am really happy that I am not feeling alone with this policy.....I will continue to enforce it...
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Willow 02:21 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
When I told the parents this, they came back with well what are you going to do about all of the other people and children that will be present in the PUBLIC place that you are taking them.

You are not affiliated with nor responsible for any of those kids though.

For me it would be just as much of a liability issue as a reputation one. If you're seen around town with a bunch of non-enrolled kids acting any which way they want to people are going to start assuming things about the type of care you provide.

Your group. Your rules. Your control.

That's why I'd have a very hard time blurring the lines and even letting parents come along. Too many of mine, although very well meaning, allow their kids to get away with things I never would. Who would be responsible for taking control of a situation like that? I know I'd have a difficult time disciplining a child right in front of the parent if they were choosing not to act. Consider how confusing that would be for the child, and the can of worms it could open for your working relationship with the parent.
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JenNJ 02:26 PM 06-26-2012
I think if you are going to a public place, they are paying their own way and the additional child's, you have no right to say who can and cannot come. What you can do is say that if behavior from additional kids disrupts your group, you will be forced to separate from the parent and they will have to take their child with them.
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daycare 02:33 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
I think if you are going to a public place, they are paying their own way and the additional child's, you have no right to say who can and cannot come. What you can do is say that if behavior from additional kids disrupts your group, you will be forced to separate from the parent and they will have to take their child with them.
I know what you are saying and I do agree with it. But I am not going to put myself in a situation where I even have to tell a parent that. I would just rather not even allow it. It will be hard enough to control the behavior of my own group and now add some kids into the mix that are not apart of my group...No thanks.

The larger the group, the more chaos. No matter who is responsible for who.

I don't care if the parents want to attend that day with their entire family. Sure I can't tell them no, but I can tell them that they cannot hang out with our group.
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Country Kids 02:44 PM 06-26-2012
OK, how about something like this for your handbook, newsletter, etc.

***X childcare does take weekly, monthly fieldtrips. During these fieldtrips it is wonderful to have parents attend and I encourage parents to come with us. Please remember that the fieldtrips are for the children only that are enrolled in ***X childcare. If a parent shows up with additional children, I will have to ask you to take the fieldtrip seperate from us as having additional children is a liability, distraction, for the childcare. Should you have any questions please feel free to ask me and we can discuss the matter further.

Now, I'm not the best writer but you can turn this into however you are needing it to sound/read.
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cheerfuldom 03:24 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
When I told the parents this, they came back with well what are you going to do about all of the other people and children that will be present in the PUBLIC place that you are taking them. They have a point, just not valid enough for me.
"These people are clearly not connected with the daycare in any way and I would not be liable for them or their children, because we are strangers and I did not set up this activity with them as a part of it. Even if you dont understand all the ins and outs of this rule, I have to insist that you abide by it. Thanks."
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EntropyControlSpecialist 03:26 PM 06-26-2012
Originally Posted by grandmom:
As a family provider, I'm always bugged by older siblings coming in with the parent. They run for the toys. I'm always worried that they will get hurt, leave the gate open, anything. I'm thinking of adding a statement to my parent handbook saying children not currently enrolled must be right with the parent. Anyone got any ideas?
We put up a gate (with no door) into the entryway that leads to the daycare at the end of the day. No one goes back in. Sibling or enrolled child.

OP, I think your rule is great. Stick with it.
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daycare 03:40 PM 06-26-2012
My no siblings or other children not enrolled was easy for me for two reasons.

1. capacity for LIC
2. My insurance will not cover it when at my house.

This has been in my policy for quite some time
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sharlan 04:51 PM 06-26-2012
I am very laid back and easy going. I love having parents join us on our field trips, always have. I had a former family meet up with us at Raging Waters today. It was great because the older kids were so happy to pal around with my younger kids leaving me with the 2 infants.

BUT, I would also draw the line at the parents bringing other kids that are not well behaved. I generally have all the kids in the family so it's pretty much been a non-issue for me. Plus, none of my parents are SAHMs.

IMHO, YOUR outings = YOUR rules. If the parents don't like it then they can keep their children home and take them on all the outings they want.
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EchoMom 06:38 PM 06-26-2012
When I was a classroom teacher in 3rd grade and then Kindergarten I never let parents bring siblings. With a class of 28 kids and multiple parent volunteers to organize the last thing I needed was MORE kids to worry about and divide the parents attention. However, with my small group of 6 I wouldn't mind at all, and even if I was larger and had 12 I might not mind. I think it's your choice.
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saved4always 05:27 AM 06-27-2012
Schools and daycare centers only allow the children who are enrolled to go on fieldtrips. No siblings....same for being a room parent at parties at the schools here. If a parent is going on a field trip for a center or school, it is to be another chaperone for the group enrolled, not for a family excursion. Extra kids mixing with the enrolled group adds too much chaos. I find that the more kids there are in the group, the more difficult it is to keep track of my own group. And, when you add siblings and other friends into the group, behavior mya not be as good, too, because there is a different mix. I think you should stick to your policy.
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texascare 05:42 AM 06-27-2012
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpe******t:
We put up a gate (with no door) into the entryway that leads to the daycare at the end of the day. No one goes back in. Sibling or enrolled child.

OP, I think your rule is great. Stick with it.
Love it. This is what I had to do because parents and kids would walk in the entry way right into the living room and sit on my couch and start watching tv with my children. I could never get them out. I also had situations where older siblings would come in and go right for the toys an dthen not clean them up so now my rule is parents in the entry way only-we have a gste up that seperates the entry way from the rest of the house. I have found that gates are the BEST invention.

Also siblings are not allowed in the daycar room at all. I tell them for germ and safety reasons.

Your house, your rules.
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Countrygal 06:00 AM 06-27-2012
I haven't read all responses, but I agree with Heidi. If they want to bring other children, they transport and they are responsible for the children they bring. IF the children misbehave, you should reserve the right to ask the parent to remove them from the group - not to leave, just to go separately so they are not distracting your group. They, technically, are not there as part of the field trip, but under their own initiative and are just joining you there.

IMO
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Meeko 09:13 AM 06-27-2012
More trouble than it's worth.

I am a large group and I don't do field trips now due to the transportation issues etc. But I used to be much smaller.

One summer we took a trip to Hogle Zoo in Salt Lake City. DCM gets all excited and invites herself along saying she'd love to "help out".

It was a disaster!

I had planned well. Planned the route around the zoo. Planned potty stops, drink/rest stops. The parents had pre-payed for a meal. I was going to order exactly the same thing for each child so there was no arguments.

Now I liked "Cindy Lou"'s mom. Nice, pleasant lady. but NEVER again!

Every five minutes.......

"Wait up you guys! Cindy Lou wants to go over here!"
"Wait a second! Cindy Lou wants to get something from the gift shop!"
"I'll get Cindy Lou's lunch...she wants this instead of that"
"Cindy Lou wants the tiger keepsake cup, not the disposable one"

My husband was having a hard time biting his tongue and I was feeling stressed to the limit as I dealt with him and meltdowns from other kids who didn't understand why Cindy Lou was getting special all day long. Her mom paid for all the "extras" that weren't in our field trip budget.

As the mom was using her own money in a public place...I felt I couldn't tell her that she couldn't buy a gift for her own daughter.

Cindy Lou's mom was oblivious to the fact SHE was the one causing the problem. After we got home, she made a comment about how great I was handling the "difficult" kids. They weren't difficult kids at all. They were being normal kids who got upset when they didn't get all the special stuff Cindy Lou was getting!

Parents come along on field trips for the "fun" part and NOT the "help" part, regardless of how they say it......which adds liability to the provider.
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daycare 12:41 PM 06-27-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
More trouble than it's worth.

I am a large group and I don't do field trips now due to the transportation issues etc. But I used to be much smaller.

One summer we took a trip to Hogle Zoo in Salt Lake City. DCM gets all excited and invites herself along saying she'd love to "help out".

It was a disaster!

I had planned well. Planned the route around the zoo. Planned potty stops, drink/rest stops. The parents had pre-payed for a meal. I was going to order exactly the same thing for each child so there was no arguments.

Now I liked "Cindy Lou"'s mom. Nice, pleasant lady. but NEVER again!

Every five minutes.......

"Wait up you guys! Cindy Lou wants to go over here!"
"Wait a second! Cindy Lou wants to get something from the gift shop!"
"I'll get Cindy Lou's lunch...she wants this instead of that"
"Cindy Lou wants the tiger keepsake cup, not the disposable one"

My husband was having a hard time biting his tongue and I was feeling stressed to the limit as I dealt with him and meltdowns from other kids who didn't understand why Cindy Lou was getting special all day long. Her mom paid for all the "extras" that weren't in our field trip budget.

As the mom was using her own money in a public place...I felt I couldn't tell her that she couldn't buy a gift for her own daughter.

Cindy Lou's mom was oblivious to the fact SHE was the one causing the problem. After we got home, she made a comment about how great I was handling the "difficult" kids. They weren't difficult kids at all. They were being normal kids who got upset when they didn't get all the special stuff Cindy Lou was getting!

Parents come along on field trips for the "fun" part and NOT the "help" part, regardless of how they say it......which adds liability to the provider.
THis right here is my fear.....thank you for sharing that story....this is exactly what I want to avoid...

One time my own husband took our son to the gift shop to buy him a toy while out on a field trip with kids and I made him go back in and buy one for everyone else....lol He was mad at first, but then understood why.....
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