So... I was wondering, if what my licensing agent does is the norm or not... I know that licensing agent has to do inspection and make suggestions and monitor your program if you're in some sort of state program or what not, but just how much do they usually do?

It seems most people have trouble with children's behavior or the parents' behavior, but no one seems to say anything about licensing agent. Is it because of the same reason as I have (that I am afraid if I speak up I'd lose my license)? or just simply no problem whatsoever? What do they do when they come to your house for inspection?? What kind of things can they give you advice on? I'm afraid to ask anything, I'm afraid to just say yes/no to everything that's asked, I'm not sure which one's a trap and which one is not... Is this how everyone else feels when they have inspection?

On the side note: I don't have a problem with licensing agent due to incompetency or anything, the parents have left me extremely good evaluations and I did comply to everything the licensing agent asked me to do - I just don't know why this licensing agent keeps on pushing me...

Following things, I've already done on top of following the regular guidelines about child safety issues and other basic children's needs and toys, etc.: In addition to everything, I purchased about $500 more toys and educational toys and painting, etc.etc. to cover age group from age 0 to 4 (I already had things that covers age 0 - 8, which I spent almost $1000 just for that) - I only have 4 children, no intention to expand, so considering the income (I don't charge for vacation, absence, or anything, just about $30~40 a day while providing all meals and snacks), it is a lot of money. (Other than toys and educational toys, I spent additional $1000+ on safety features around the child care spaces and stuff).

I've gotten booster seats like I was told to, I've gotten specific toys the agent described, I take children outside everyday unless there's a severe weather warning, I do participate in potty training children whose parents asked me to, and do not do laundry/dishes/cleaning of any kind except for clearing the table after the meals because licensing agent told me I cannot do any type of housework but only play with the children during the child care hours. I also prepare meals before the care hours if the meals take more than 30~40 minutes to prepare (for example, I would make spaghetti sauce from scratch the night before if I'm serving it the next day since it'll take too long to make), and even while cooking, I still read books to children and sing songs with them and such because I was told that's what I have to do.

I also do not do discipline except for asking children to reconcile (if age appropriate) by talking it out, or redirecting to another play by suggesting it, or having them share/take turns, and only in severe harm's done then I would put the child in time out.

I try to be equal with all children, so I cycle through age 1 to age 4 activities throughout the day, because it is unfair if I were only to read age 4 books or activities for age 4 when age 1~2 are sitting there bored, and vice versa.

After the children are gone, I do all the laundry (I wash sheets and blankets in case there was accident - I used to have a child with accident almost everyday till was potty trained fully for weeks and never complained about it; and also wash art smocks everyday since children use them almost everyday), all the dishes, prepare dinner for my family, vacuum everyday, clean bathroom everyday.

The children and I engage in imaginary play, science/nature exploration, pretend play, outdoor water play, story time, rock painting, water color, finger painting, coloring on the sidewalk, cut &paste crafts, origami, cooking, baking, field trips to museums, Coast Guard boats, fire station, city park, Local Children's play group (parents signed slips), library reading/craft time, sing along with gestures, alphabets, numbers, manners (thank you, please, helping clean up toys, putting cups/plates away) and so much more. With winter approaching, I have also made efforts to make sure I have extra items on hand to cover the children in the event of bad weather while the children are here. Everything from additional medical supplies, extra emergency food,
revised winter emergency plan for the children, several gallons more water, more emergency candles.

Basically, the moment a child gets here, I play with them except for going to bathroom and cooking for a little bit (even during cooking, I engage them) until the moment they leave.

I feel like I'm doing a lot, and even so, I felt that this agent might just pull my license if I don't comply, so I did, and... I just had a hunch and finally requested the department to see a copy of my file. This licensing agent kept complaining about this and that and put down things on the evaluation as if I don't do any of these activities and as if I am really incompetent that she had to SHOW me what to do. I'm upset and extremely baffled by this. Of course, there's no 3rd person, so it really is what she says vs. what I say, only thing I have is that there are people who see me with these children in town who tell me how excellent I am with them, and the parents who are extremely satisfied. When I brought it up, she immediately sent emails to her supervisor and several other people "praising" how great I am as a child care provider. But when I requested this email to be included in my official file, she denied saying it was only a personal email between her and her supervisors so have nothing to do with me even if it clearly had my child care evaluation. I have a feeling that she's just really manipulative and playing politics.

When she was here to inspect, she basically got in the way of doing ANY sort of activities with children, the children naturally got curious as to who she was, and she kept favoring older children and whenever I tried to do scheduled activities, she just interrupted me and let the older children do whatever they chose to do (I often switch activities depending on what children want to do, but it's different when she overrides me verbally in front of the children), then just left me hanging with younger children who kept getting distracted by other things going on (it was not age appropriate activity for the younger children) and wouldn't participate in any sort of activities due to distraction. Not only that, she disregarded couple of safety measures when we were outside and I was extremely upset about it, too. But of course, I was so afraid that I didn't say anything.

Then she started talking about how I spend way too much time cooking that the children don't get enough attention. I felt like, 'excuse me, what are you talking about?' but I just kept my mouth shut and explained that I believe in homecooked meals balanced with protein, vegetable and carbs and provide meals as such (and I keep a log of every meal served here on a notebook) - after browsing through the notebook, she said my meals are way too complicated and no way I can make them in 30~40 minutes. I felt that it was very closed-mindedness for my culture, because I grew up where moms cook all the time and I've seen them cook, learned to cook, took nutritional courses in middle school (all that jazz about some mg of vitamins and what not, I learned that in MIDDLE SCHOOL, that's how interested I was in the subject). I CAN cook stuff within 30 minutes for some of those made from scratch menus and I actually pulled it off while she was here WHILE doing sing along with children. There was no mention of that in the evaluation at all. She just wrote what SHE did with children and did not mention a single thing I did with the children, rated me with terrible 1-10 scale points on several categories.

So I am here, trying to find out if this is the norm. Is this what licensing agent normally does when they visit your home for inspection? Am I supposed to feel this much intimidated? And is it legitimate that she sent email to her supervisors and some others about how good of a child care provider I am (she claims), and yet refuse to include that evaluation email to my file? I was so stressed out during that inspection due to her interruption of the daily plan (by the way, the older children acted out and didn't listen at all the next a few days, which was very difficult to handle, whenever I asked them of something, such as washing hands after a meal or getting back from outside, they simply said, "Oh, I don't want to." and I had to persuade them to wash hands. That's just about hands. It kept happening with every single activitiy through days!), just putting me down in front of children constantly verbally, then trying to talk to parents about "concerns" about me. -_-; Fortunately one parent that she spoke with totally told her that I was the best one that they've ever had as a child care provider. - anyway, that day with inspection, I ended up going to E.R. later that evening due to stress.

So... if someone could describe what really happens with their licensing agent throughout the day that agent's there, like, step by step, would be helpful, because this is my first time, and not sure if I'm overreacting or this is the norm for them to keep asking more from you, etc. She told me to buy cushions for children to play and share with and I told her no because my cats may pee on cushions and it would be unsanitary (the children have dogs at home and my cats don't like other animal smell) She told me to keep all the linens and bedding separately stored for each child for sanitary reasons, but then they can share cushions?? - she wrote on the evaluation that I said no to cushions, not why I said no. I would love to have cushions because I am pregnant and that would add to my comfort, too, but after having a child with head lice problem, and it didn't spread because I didn't really have fabric items to worry about, I decided against it. Isn't that legitimate enough reason?

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Umm, nope, sorry yours is a hard a**! I thought mine was bad. Is there anyone else you can get switched to? A director you can complain to (send this in an email or something) ?

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What state are you in?!

Almost everything you state here would get Utah licensing staff fired

Our inspectors have a 13 page long list of (tiny print) questions and observations. We have the same exact list available to us on our state web site so we know exactly what will be asked and/or looked at. They can ask ONLY the questions on the list. We can ASK their opinion on something if we want, but it's just that...an opinion.

We cannot be written up on anything not on the list. If it's not in the state official rules, then it's none of their business. They must be able to show us the exact reg in the manual if they find something wrong. When the inspection is over, the provider gets a list of any findings and has to sign a form saying she understands them and gets a copy. We also have to sign a form if there are NO findings. This so the inspector can't go back to the office and write up whatever she feels like.

If a provider ever has a problem and feels like she is being picked on, she can request a 3rd person be there from the licensing office.

We are told over and over again, that we and licensing are a TEAM working together for the good of Utah's children. They are not our enemy and are there to HELP us run a good program.

They cannot tell us how to run our day care. Their responsibility is to make sure that health and safety is met. They inspect toys for safety. They have no say so in WHAT toys we have or how many.

They have no say so in our food prep or menus etc. The food program oversees that.

Get a copy of your state regs and read them until you are VERY familiar with them.

In your case, I would ask for a 3rd person to witness her inspections. Every time she finds something she doesn't like, ask to see the official reg. EVERY TIME.

Ask for everything in writing BEFORE she leaves your home.

It sounds as if your state leaves it wide open for some SERIOUS abuse of power. There should never be room for it to become a she said/she said debate.

If an inspector started overiding my authority with the kids in MY day care, I would show her the door and call state HQ...not her office supervisor who may also be her friend.

Don't be afraid. They cannnot pull your license because they feel like it. There has to be a very good reason. Speak up..this is YOUR business.

Good luck to you...I know some states are harder to work with. All the more reason to be in charge and not just accept what thrown at you.

Go git 'em

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I have never had my licenser tell me anything about food, how much./little i cooked, asked me questions about how i spent my time, or engaged with the children in any way. That is uncalled for. i would ask for someone to come along next time for them to see how she is, or ask them if what she is doing is the norm. I can tell you i dont care where you are from that is NOT the norm.

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Oh my! My licensor was just here today and she was here for about 35 minutes. She looked at all the daycare rooms, checked one smoke detector per level of the house, asked a few questions based on my answers to a list of questions I had to return to her prior to her visit, checked that I had proof of trainings, proof of rabies shots, proof of fire/storm drills, and asked if my policies were the same as when I opened. She is very nice and I constantly amaze her by how my house is set up for the kids and how well behaved they are even with some one new in the room. She barely interacts with them and hardly gets in our way. She was in and out as fast as possible so we could get on with our day. I don't know how I'd deal with someone as pushy as yours aside from memorizing the daycare rules and keeping her on task with what is part of the rules and what is not.

I can't imagine doing all the cleaning and cooking outside of daycare hours either. We at home daycare providers and are suppose to raise these kids in a home like environment. Homes need to do cleaning and cooking even with the kids around. Kids learn so much by watching the adults cook and clean or even by playing by themselves while the adult does the 'boring' stuff.

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in.

freaking.

SANE.

you may quote me on that.

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My licensor is very nice and helpful. She has been here twice and really did not go overboard at all. The fire inspector asked more questions and asked me to change some items before I became licensed. I have a structured morning including our learning hour, circle time, music lesson, gross motor play and science exploration. We have lunch and then naptime. After nap it is free time and I clean during free time for about 30-40 min. My kitchen overlooks our playroom so I can sweep, load dishes, do counters, mop and start dinner. I think it is good for the kids to get a chance to play with eachother and also see me cleaning and keeping a healthy home. I have received many compliments on the cleanliness of my home and, " how do you do it?" questions knowing I care for 5-8 children a day. It is all about balance. I praise you for devoting 100% of your day to the children. I think the kids also learn from each other and also need time to play together without an adult on the floor with them to gain independence.

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I see, I do have a list of "inspection" stuff, which I think one of you is referring, to... She did check those for the very first time before I opened, but I don't ever remember signing that myself, she just did it herself. I don't know if it's different because I operate on a military base? Her supervisor is in the same can, he is even more political than she is, I had to deal with them before. And she's the only licensor in this area that I know of, for military. But they did mention that they do try their best to follow state guidelines, so perhaps I should go find out if that's the norm in this state. There are a few things I cannot change in this house because this is a federal housing (such as, I cannot regulate hot water temperature unless the military base command decides to dig up all the water pipes that connects all these houses and changes all of them).

I did speak with the local child evaluator, and she told me that at 1.5+ year old, the child is usually able to play by oneself for about 10 minutes or so without looking for an adult. In the beginning when I started, that was about the norm for the younger children I took care of. After 3 months or so of doing what the licensor told me, the children just STARE at me, unable to play by themselves because they seriously don't know how without me in my house (I spoke with parents and they say they're capable of playing by themselves at their own homes) - I tried rotating toys, taking all the toys out, etc.etc., nope, they just stare until I say "hey, let's do sing along" or "hey, look, let's go on a picnic, where would you like to go? (park, outside, pretend to go outside, etc.) "Would you like to paint?" or some sort of ideas... if I just ask, "what would you like to do?" the older ones say, read books, paint, or what not, but the younger ones just stare at me! I was getting seriously concerned about their independence due to sticking with what this licensor told me to do. When she was here, I was making morning snack and made some blueberry pancakes - pour it on the pan, come back to read a book to children, then go flip it, then come back, then start next one, so on (I only use back burners, and the children can't get to the kitchen without me noticing them since I'm doing activities with them, so it's safe)

I crawl around with kids for imaginary pretend animals in the wild play, etc, too, and she wrote on the evaluation that SHE played with children such as imaginary animal play, etc. - um. ... I didn't see her crawling around with them at all - all she did, "oooh, you're being such a good pet. Here's food (asks kids to pretend to eat snack out of her hands, then pets them), you're being such a good pet." - I didn't grow up in the U.S., came here in high school. So I may not be familiar with what children play with or what they sing (I literally memorized about 15 children's songs right when I started the business because I didn't grow up with English children's songs, and did my best to learn all the hand gestures, etc, etc, so I could play with children!) - but is it normal for playing "pet-owner" game? That looked very odd to me. I'd never treat children like pets. (although I do know some people do love pets as their own children, it's just not the same to me!)

One child protested he wanted to drink HER juice out of her bag (he's young), and I told him I do have the juice in the fridge and tried to redirect him and she told me to give him juice out of her bottle that she drank from. That's not sanitary, is it?

Then when we were outside, she asked me if she could bring children to the treeline area for picking up leaves for science exploration. I replied that that's the area I mentioned to her that bears frequent and I don't take children there. And she said, "oooh, *** (oldest child in care), would you like to see the bear?" and took her there, with two younger children who don't know what's going on, got curious, ran after them. I couldn't say no, because children are already walking over there and I was so stressed out by her ongoing trampling on my words in front of children, not to mention I started getting several contractions (I am pregnant) due to stress. She stayed the entire morning, from about 8:45 to 12. I thought my stress level would go down and tried to relax after children were gone, but it got worse as I thought over and over what happened, I even got scared that some of the things she asked me for "permission" (such as juice incident) was to test me, like a trap, or what not, that I ended up going E.R. The doctor informed me that due to stress, it caused some complication and I may have to worry about pre term labor (higher risk of preterm labor).

I started the care because my 1.5 year old didn't get much interaction with other children due to severe winter season here (the playground gets closed down due to snow, etc), and I thought it would be a wonderful opportunity for my child as well as some extra income, not to mention I really like children a lot. But sigh, after all this, and charging really a low rate, too, I just don't want to deal with the situation, so I decided to tell the licensor that I am taking off due to my pregnancy, and also informed the parents, gave them notices according to contract.

Mainly, I don't know when she's gonna try to talk to parents again and try to turn one against me again, I really don't feel like getting backstabbed again, but I am concerned about her evaluations of me that she turned in, which is completely opposite of what I have from parents. When I did mention some things to her supervisor's supervisor, she immediately sent off emails to those people (supervisor and all) who are "important" that I am an excellent provider and praised my child care supposedly - but she's refusing to put THAT email evaluation in my official file. These documents will stay there for quite a long time, and in case I do start a child care again after delivery, I do want this corrected... It seems odd to me that she can refuse to put a relevant email (that includes my child care evaluation) in my file. Or am I wrong? She keeps protesting that the email was intended for those eyes only that she doesn't have to put it in my file. Does that mean this email of praising me was just another political maneuver, she's playing both sides to be safe but has no intention of giving me any good evaluation? I just don't know how to handle this situation/person. I've always been perfectly honest with parents and children, and they respect me for being transparent, couple of them even write back to me to my daily email (yes, I sent them daily email that includes daily meals, potty schedule, activities they did, funny things their kid said, good things they did, not so good things they did, supplies I need such as underwear/pants if necessary, and what we could do to guide their child if something didn't go well, usually took 30~40 minutes for each family) - so yeah... She really try hard to scare me, but that didn't work since it's not even true and I have every evidence to back me up.

It's like a roller coaster ride. I loved being out there with children, playing with them, sometimes they'd ask me questions or tell me secrets (like they like some boy at school...), or if they're mad at their parents about something, etc. etc., and I always am honest with children and ask them if they want me to talk to their parents about it so they understand, or what not... I believe that if you treat children with honesty and respect, they return the favor, and it has been that way for the most part so far. but seriously? I have to deal with a licensor who either thinks she's got some major power over me, or perhaps she had really bad child care providers before that she thinks all the ccps are liars or something? I really can't figure it out. At this point, this is holiday season, and I am close to my delivery and I just had to make a decision - my family or dealing with her - I wonder if I could request for a chance of licensor, but I doubt it. I've heard some rumors about this licensor in negative side, but military families come and go - they don't stick around to deal with the same person for long, so I don't think anyone actually filed complaint because no one wants to deal with drama. I don't, either. But I wonder if she got away with all this for so long because of that precise reason - that no one wants to get their hands dirty by filing that complaint.

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I did day care on a an Air Force base in Oklahoma when I first started. We had to meet Oklahoma licensing rules and Air Force rules. But our inspections were NEVER like that.

I do not understand how a woman can just write down nothing but her own opinions and that becomes record???? It doesn't make sense.

You need to talk with your local CCRR, any training instructors etc.

Also. your state must have a web site or place parents can go to find licensed providers. Maybe you could call some of the local providers and ask them about THEIR inspections. They may be able to help guide you.

What state are you in? Maybe some forum members are in your state and can tell you whether their experiences are similar???

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