Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Why So Mean?
MissAnn 08:25 AM 08-14-2014
OK....this is a vent and a concern. I even put a movie on for the kids so I could write this out.
I have a girl who is 5 and is just plain mean. I have had her about 6 months and I have not been successful in ridding of the mean. She has a mean expression on her face most of the day. If I take a picture of another kid I have to make sure she is not in the background because she will be mad I'm not taking a picture of her. There it is....the mean face ruining a picture of another kid.
Here's a scenario that happened this morning. First of all, my kids work activities either at a table or a rug. They need to ask if they can play before joining in. The other kid can say yes, no thank you, maybe later....etc. She LOVES to do this......
Girl is playing at a rug. A new boy asks if he can play with her
Girl: NO THANK YOU!!!!!! (mean voice)
She then looks at another boy and in an angelic voice......
Girl: Do you want to play with me?????
Now she has the right to say no to one kid and yes to another. This is fine with me......it's the WAY she does it. It's like she revels in it. Takes pure pleasure in being mean.....at least that what it seems like.
Today, outside....she took a toy away from another kid and gave it to another kid. She also had the same toy. I told her she needed to give hers to the boy she took a toy from. Reluctantly she did.....stomping to the corner of the playground and singing loudly....in opera.....about how she wants her toy back. Everyone ignored her. So, she came closer to us and acted like she was on the phone, complaining to her mom how everyone was mean to her. Everyone ignored her. Then an airplane went overhead and she yelled for the airplane to come down and rescue her. Again...everyone ignored. It's like they don't hear her any more.....she does this stuff all the time.
This morning she came in and the new boy ran up to her and told her hi. She screamed at him. I told the girl in front of her mom that there was no need for screaming and if he was in her face she could use her big voice and words to speak to him. The mom took sides with the girl and acted like the boy was all up into her face.......he wasn't.
I remember there was a thread about over praising......(I started one of them)....this girl is a praise and attention hound. If I say one kids picture is awesome....she will get mad if I don't say hers is awesome. If I pat a kids back she will insist I pat her back. This goes on constantly. Usually I will say.....what do you think of your picture? Other times when she's not demanding it, I will praise her for things that are well deserved....not for every little thing.
OK....there is so much more I could say. Sorry if there are typos....but I don't have time to proof read...gotta make lunch. Advice is welcome! Oh.....and some of those awesome hug icons would be great too!!!!!! LOL Thanks for letting me vent. I want the best for this girl and I want to help her become a more tolerable person to be around.
I have a girl who is 5 and is just plain mean. I have had her about 6 months and I have not been successful in ridding of the mean. She has a mean expression on her face most of the day. If I take a picture of another kid I have to make sure she is not in the background because she will be mad I'm not taking a picture of her. There it is....the mean face ruining a picture of another kid.
Here's a scenario that happened this morning. First of all, my kids work activities either at a table or a rug. They need to ask if they can play before joining in. The other kid can say yes, no thank you, maybe later....etc. She LOVES to do this......
Girl is playing at a rug. A new boy asks if he can play with her
Girl: NO THANK YOU!!!!!! (mean voice)
She then looks at another boy and in an angelic voice......
Girl: Do you want to play with me?????
Now she has the right to say no to one kid and yes to another. This is fine with me......it's the WAY she does it. It's like she revels in it. Takes pure pleasure in being mean.....at least that what it seems like.
Today, outside....she took a toy away from another kid and gave it to another kid. She also had the same toy. I told her she needed to give hers to the boy she took a toy from. Reluctantly she did.....stomping to the corner of the playground and singing loudly....in opera.....about how she wants her toy back. Everyone ignored her. So, she came closer to us and acted like she was on the phone, complaining to her mom how everyone was mean to her. Everyone ignored her. Then an airplane went overhead and she yelled for the airplane to come down and rescue her. Again...everyone ignored. It's like they don't hear her any more.....she does this stuff all the time.
This morning she came in and the new boy ran up to her and told her hi. She screamed at him. I told the girl in front of her mom that there was no need for screaming and if he was in her face she could use her big voice and words to speak to him. The mom took sides with the girl and acted like the boy was all up into her face.......he wasn't.
I remember there was a thread about over praising......(I started one of them)....this girl is a praise and attention hound. If I say one kids picture is awesome....she will get mad if I don't say hers is awesome. If I pat a kids back she will insist I pat her back. This goes on constantly. Usually I will say.....what do you think of your picture? Other times when she's not demanding it, I will praise her for things that are well deserved....not for every little thing.
OK....there is so much more I could say. Sorry if there are typos....but I don't have time to proof read...gotta make lunch. Advice is welcome! Oh.....and some of those awesome hug icons would be great too!!!!!! LOL Thanks for letting me vent. I want the best for this girl and I want to help her become a more tolerable person to be around.
drseuss 08:36 AM 08-14-2014
The only real unpleasant term I've had to do was a child just like this. Nothing worked, the girl was just. plain. mean. Four years later the parents still will not look me in the eye.
Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???
Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???
Cat Herder 08:39 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???
Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it. Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???
Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on Aspergers.
I really don't worry about the labels... just the techniques that come out of the research of those labels. I hope that makes sense??
Frankly, I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere.
drseuss 08:42 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.
Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on this.
Ok, just wondering... In my years of experience with it, I have never known AS and mean or aggressive behavior to go hand in hand. I get a little on the defensive about it.Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.
Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on this.
CedarCreek 08:43 AM 08-14-2014
That's rough! She's got a bit of a drama queen problem as well, doesn't she?
Honestly, it sounds like you're doing fine ignoring the attempt at drama and correcting the behavior. The problem is probably Mom reinforcing this behavior at home.
Has Mom ever brought up that she complains about everyone "being mean" to her?
Honestly, it sounds like you're doing fine ignoring the attempt at drama and correcting the behavior. The problem is probably Mom reinforcing this behavior at home.
Has Mom ever brought up that she complains about everyone "being mean" to her?
Thriftylady 08:45 AM 08-14-2014
It is really hard when a mother reinforces the bad behavior. When mom took her side about the screaming I would have said something like "but in my home we don't treat others like that, it's a rule".
Cat Herder 08:47 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
Ok, just wondering... In my years of experience with it, I have never known AS and mean or aggressive behavior to go hand in hand. I get a little on the defensive about it.
I am with you. Ok, just wondering... In my years of experience with it, I have never known AS and mean or aggressive behavior to go hand in hand. I get a little on the defensive about it.
I have to look up some links to verify what I see in the post.. I don't have time for big replies, now.. I hoped BC, Nan or Jen would see it and read my mind... They often do. 
MissAnn 09:01 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.
Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on Aspergers.
I really don't worry about the labels... just the techniques that come out of the research of those labels. I hope that makes sense??
Frankly, I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere.
Makes sense to me. She does not seem at all like she has aspergers but I understand techniques used for aspergers could help this one. HOPE!Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.
Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on Aspergers.
I really don't worry about the labels... just the techniques that come out of the research of those labels. I hope that makes sense??
Frankly, I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere.
MissAnn 09:05 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by CedarCreek:
That's rough! She's got a bit of a drama queen problem as well, doesn't she?
Honestly, it sounds like you're doing fine ignoring the attempt at drama and correcting the behavior. The problem is probably Mom reinforcing this behavior at home.
Has Mom ever brought up that she complains about everyone "being mean" to her?
Yes.....in fact I was told by her previous daycare that they would have warned me about her...had they known she was coming here. That's rough! She's got a bit of a drama queen problem as well, doesn't she?
Honestly, it sounds like you're doing fine ignoring the attempt at drama and correcting the behavior. The problem is probably Mom reinforcing this behavior at home.
Has Mom ever brought up that she complains about everyone "being mean" to her?
The parents are aware she is a bit difficult....I just don't think they understand their part in it. She told her parents a kid was "bullying" her at her previous place. They took it seriously and was not happy when the daycare didn't take action against the kid. Now I don't know all the details...but no kid in their right mind would bully this girl. Parents are hoodwinked.
Play Care 09:10 AM 08-14-2014
I had a mean girl in my day care. She was also my neighbors child
In my case she was older, so much sneakier about it - I'm still finding out just how mean and nasty she could be...The parents think the sun shines out of her bottom
IME, you will not be able to do anything with this girl, and it will get worse.
In my case she was older, so much sneakier about it - I'm still finding out just how mean and nasty she could be...The parents think the sun shines out of her bottom
IME, you will not be able to do anything with this girl, and it will get worse.
MissAnn 09:10 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
It is really hard when a mother reinforces the bad behavior. When mom took her side about the screaming I would have said something like "but in my home we don't treat others like that, it's a rule".
I told her there have been other instances like this and I'm trying to teach her the appropriate way to speak her feelings. Mom seemed like she had a light bulb moment....but that won't last long. I am trying to teach mom as much as kid.It is really hard when a mother reinforces the bad behavior. When mom took her side about the screaming I would have said something like "but in my home we don't treat others like that, it's a rule".
deliberateliterate 10:02 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I had a mean girl in my day care. She was also my neighbors child
In my case she was older, so much sneakier about it - I'm still finding out just how mean and nasty she could be...The parents think the sun shines out of her bottom
IME, you will not be able to do anything with this girl, and it will get worse.
Are you me?? Mine is now occasional, thank god.I had a mean girl in my day care. She was also my neighbors child
In my case she was older, so much sneakier about it - I'm still finding out just how mean and nasty she could be...The parents think the sun shines out of her bottom
IME, you will not be able to do anything with this girl, and it will get worse.
sugar buzz 10:06 AM 08-14-2014
It sounds like an old-fashioned case of spoiled-rotten-itis to me. (Does anyone remember Mrs. Piggle Wiggle?) Her ability to compose songs, photo-bomb, and make herself the victim shows some master manipulation skills--a budding little narcissist. I watched a SA like this, who actually asked me, "HOW MUCH IS MY MOM PAYING YOU?!!!!" (Not enough, kid....) It's sort of like a daily exorcism because they don't understand why their well-played bad behavior isn't being rewarded. I gritted my teeth and stayed consistent, reminding her that those types of behavior weren't okay HERE. I eventually earned her respect, and underneath the facade was a pretty cool little girl, who just had WAY TOO MUCH power at home. 
MissAnn 10:06 AM 08-14-2014
There HAS been SOME progress. So that's good. On her second day a mom brought in a birthday present for another kid. This girl was 4 1/2 at the time. She pitched a holy fit. I've never seen one like that here! I'm talking kicking feet and screaming at the mom....demanding where her present is!!!! The mom was horrified and I told her to not worry, this is a life lesson. I then asked the child if today is her birthday and she said no. So I said, you will get presents on your birthday.
Also, when she was new.....a boy was playing in the outdoor kitchen. He was standing on a stood. This girl ran from clear across the playground and pushed the boy off the stool. He wasn't hurt but easily could have been. A piece of furniture was in front of him and also in back of him. When I asked the girl why she did that.....she replied that she wanted the bowl he had. She did that sort of thing a lot. Grab things from kids and say.....I wanted it. I never once let her get by with it. Writing this out makes me feel a little better. I am able to notice the things that have changed for the better. She doesn't grab toys from other kids very often any more.
Also, when she was new.....a boy was playing in the outdoor kitchen. He was standing on a stood. This girl ran from clear across the playground and pushed the boy off the stool. He wasn't hurt but easily could have been. A piece of furniture was in front of him and also in back of him. When I asked the girl why she did that.....she replied that she wanted the bowl he had. She did that sort of thing a lot. Grab things from kids and say.....I wanted it. I never once let her get by with it. Writing this out makes me feel a little better. I am able to notice the things that have changed for the better. She doesn't grab toys from other kids very often any more.
NeedaVaca 10:12 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by sugar buzz:
It sounds like an old-fashioned case of spoiled-rotten-itis to me. (Does anyone remember Mrs. Piggle Wiggle?) Her ability to compose songs, photo-bomb, and make herself the victim shows some master manipulation skills--a budding little narcissist. I watched a SA like this, who actually asked me, "HOW MUCH IS MY MOM PAYING YOU?!!!!" (Not enough, kid....) It's sort of like a daily exorcism because they don't understand why their well-played bad behavior isn't being rewarded. I gritted my teeth and stayed consistent, reminding her that those types of behavior weren't okay HERE. I eventually earned her respect, and underneath the facade was a pretty cool little girl, who just had WAY TOO MUCH power at home.
I love Mrs. Piggle Wiggle, I still have copies of all the books!It sounds like an old-fashioned case of spoiled-rotten-itis to me. (Does anyone remember Mrs. Piggle Wiggle?) Her ability to compose songs, photo-bomb, and make herself the victim shows some master manipulation skills--a budding little narcissist. I watched a SA like this, who actually asked me, "HOW MUCH IS MY MOM PAYING YOU?!!!!" (Not enough, kid....) It's sort of like a daily exorcism because they don't understand why their well-played bad behavior isn't being rewarded. I gritted my teeth and stayed consistent, reminding her that those types of behavior weren't okay HERE. I eventually earned her respect, and underneath the facade was a pretty cool little girl, who just had WAY TOO MUCH power at home.
Laurel 10:21 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by MissAnn:
OK....this is a vent and a concern. I even put a movie on for the kids so I could write this out.
I have a girl who is 5 and is just plain mean. I have had her about 6 months and I have not been successful in ridding of the mean. She has a mean expression on her face most of the day. If I take a picture of another kid I have to make sure she is not in the background because she will be mad I'm not taking a picture of her. There it is....the mean face ruining a picture of another kid.
Here's a scenario that happened this morning. First of all, my kids work activities either at a table or a rug. They need to ask if they can play before joining in. The other kid can say yes, no thank you, maybe later....etc. She LOVES to do this......
Girl is playing at a rug. A new boy asks if he can play with her
Girl: NO THANK YOU!!!!!! (mean voice)
She then looks at another boy and in an angelic voice......
Girl: Do you want to play with me?????
Now she has the right to say no to one kid and yes to another. This is fine with me......it's the WAY she does it. It's like she revels in it. Takes pure pleasure in being mean.....at least that what it seems like.
Today, outside....she took a toy away from another kid and gave it to another kid. She also had the same toy. I told her she needed to give hers to the boy she took a toy from. Reluctantly she did.....stomping to the corner of the playground and singing loudly....in opera.....about how she wants her toy back. Everyone ignored her. So, she came closer to us and acted like she was on the phone, complaining to her mom how everyone was mean to her. Everyone ignored her. Then an airplane went overhead and she yelled for the airplane to come down and rescue her. Again...everyone ignored. It's like they don't hear her any more.....she does this stuff all the time.
This morning she came in and the new boy ran up to her and told her hi. She screamed at him. I told the girl in front of her mom that there was no need for screaming and if he was in her face she could use her big voice and words to speak to him. The mom took sides with the girl and acted like the boy was all up into her face.......he wasn't.
I remember there was a thread about over praising......(I started one of them)....this girl is a praise and attention hound. If I say one kids picture is awesome....she will get mad if I don't say hers is awesome. If I pat a kids back she will insist I pat her back. This goes on constantly. Usually I will say.....what do you think of your picture? Other times when she's not demanding it, I will praise her for things that are well deserved....not for every little thing.
OK....there is so much more I could say. Sorry if there are typos....but I don't have time to proof read...gotta make lunch. Advice is welcome! Oh.....and some of those awesome hug icons would be great too!!!!!! LOL Thanks for letting me vent. I want the best for this girl and I want to help her become a more tolerable person to be around.
At 5 she is plenty old enough to understand what she is doing. I would have a talk with her. I'd tell her she is being mean and nasty and I am tired of it and it won't go on. I would give her a few specific examples of things she has done and tell her it won't be tolerated anymore, period. I'd make my 'lecture' as short as possible.OK....this is a vent and a concern. I even put a movie on for the kids so I could write this out.
I have a girl who is 5 and is just plain mean. I have had her about 6 months and I have not been successful in ridding of the mean. She has a mean expression on her face most of the day. If I take a picture of another kid I have to make sure she is not in the background because she will be mad I'm not taking a picture of her. There it is....the mean face ruining a picture of another kid.
Here's a scenario that happened this morning. First of all, my kids work activities either at a table or a rug. They need to ask if they can play before joining in. The other kid can say yes, no thank you, maybe later....etc. She LOVES to do this......
Girl is playing at a rug. A new boy asks if he can play with her
Girl: NO THANK YOU!!!!!! (mean voice)
She then looks at another boy and in an angelic voice......
Girl: Do you want to play with me?????
Now she has the right to say no to one kid and yes to another. This is fine with me......it's the WAY she does it. It's like she revels in it. Takes pure pleasure in being mean.....at least that what it seems like.
Today, outside....she took a toy away from another kid and gave it to another kid. She also had the same toy. I told her she needed to give hers to the boy she took a toy from. Reluctantly she did.....stomping to the corner of the playground and singing loudly....in opera.....about how she wants her toy back. Everyone ignored her. So, she came closer to us and acted like she was on the phone, complaining to her mom how everyone was mean to her. Everyone ignored her. Then an airplane went overhead and she yelled for the airplane to come down and rescue her. Again...everyone ignored. It's like they don't hear her any more.....she does this stuff all the time.
This morning she came in and the new boy ran up to her and told her hi. She screamed at him. I told the girl in front of her mom that there was no need for screaming and if he was in her face she could use her big voice and words to speak to him. The mom took sides with the girl and acted like the boy was all up into her face.......he wasn't.
I remember there was a thread about over praising......(I started one of them)....this girl is a praise and attention hound. If I say one kids picture is awesome....she will get mad if I don't say hers is awesome. If I pat a kids back she will insist I pat her back. This goes on constantly. Usually I will say.....what do you think of your picture? Other times when she's not demanding it, I will praise her for things that are well deserved....not for every little thing.
OK....there is so much more I could say. Sorry if there are typos....but I don't have time to proof read...gotta make lunch. Advice is welcome! Oh.....and some of those awesome hug icons would be great too!!!!!! LOL Thanks for letting me vent. I want the best for this girl and I want to help her become a more tolerable person to be around.
When she starts with the mean faces, I'd tell her to get that look off her face and go sit at the table where I would choose something for her to do. If she takes a toy from someone in a nasty way, I'd take it away from her and she wouldn't get it the rest of the day. Then she'd go back to the table.
Rinse and repeat. I wouldn't engage if she starts to argue. I would tell her to 'go to the table." Outside I'd have an area for her too maybe a picnic table.
She is old enough to know what she is doing and old enough to control herself.
Laurel
NightOwl 10:33 AM 08-14-2014
Kids who are aggressive or bossy often times feel out of control, so they are trying to control any little aspect of their lives that they can. Is she given choices? Are her parents the "children should be seen and not heard" type or the "my way or the highway" type? Every kid needs to feel they have some kind of control over their lives and it sounds like she had none, so she just takes it.
Also, on the flip side, if there are no boundaries at home and she is running the household, that can be a very scary thing for a kid. They NEED structure and predictability. It makes them feel safe knowing that someone else is running the show and has their back. If that's not there, they may lash out like little tyrants.
Also, on the flip side, if there are no boundaries at home and she is running the household, that can be a very scary thing for a kid. They NEED structure and predictability. It makes them feel safe knowing that someone else is running the show and has their back. If that's not there, they may lash out like little tyrants.
SignMeUp 10:35 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.
Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on Aspergers.
I really don't worry about the labels... just the techniques that come out of the research of those labels. I hope that makes sense??
Frankly, I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere.
Because I am working on a reply of TWO of my clients who had some of these issues and were later DX'ed with it.
Not a rush to judgement... there are techniques that will help even if not on the spectrum from the research on Aspergers.
I really don't worry about the labels... just the techniques that come out of the research of those labels. I hope that makes sense??
Frankly, I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere.
this! I have learned so much from my childcare kids' special ed teachers who were willing to share techniques and reasons with me. And I find that so much of what they've taught me also applies to "typical" children.
Cat Herder 10:37 AM 08-14-2014
http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010...-tips-for.html
http://www.ourlifewithaspergers.blog...aspergers.html
http://www.empoweringparents.com/How...-Children.php#
This should be a good start.
Again, please ignore the labels and check out the techniques. When used in group care they seem to work well for meeting the needs of the ENTIRE group. All ages, on the "spectrum" or not... They help to seal the gap and get the kids on the same page.
As I said above, I have had two former clients that were diagnosed with Aspergers over the years. When their parents gave me the tips they were given I was able to see the value of those techniques for ALL kids in group care. Especially mixed age groups. They help level the decks.
I have been given tips for other special needs as well, but these seem to be the easiest, most effective, to implement in a home environment. (IMHO, of course. After trial and much past failure.
) I had a very wordy reply going on word, but this hits my point quicker... 
http://www.ourlifewithaspergers.blog...aspergers.html
http://www.empoweringparents.com/How...-Children.php#
This should be a good start.
Again, please ignore the labels and check out the techniques. When used in group care they seem to work well for meeting the needs of the ENTIRE group. All ages, on the "spectrum" or not... They help to seal the gap and get the kids on the same page.
As I said above, I have had two former clients that were diagnosed with Aspergers over the years. When their parents gave me the tips they were given I was able to see the value of those techniques for ALL kids in group care. Especially mixed age groups. They help level the decks.
I have been given tips for other special needs as well, but these seem to be the easiest, most effective, to implement in a home environment. (IMHO, of course. After trial and much past failure.
) I had a very wordy reply going on word, but this hits my point quicker...
EntropyControlSpecialist 10:56 AM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
The only real unpleasant term I've had to do was a child just like this. Nothing worked, the girl was just. plain. mean. Four years later the parents still will not look me in the eye.
Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???
I am an Aspie and while I am certainly extremely blunt if I am not working very hard at being more gentle I wouldn't say I was purposely mean acting either. The only real unpleasant term I've had to do was a child just like this. Nothing worked, the girl was just. plain. mean. Four years later the parents still will not look me in the eye.
Why, oh why, does this thread have 'asperger's' in the tag line???
Maybe I am and I just don't see it.OP-I have had mean kids and never could make them more tolerable. Their parents were concerned, too, after I made a big deal out of it to a certain extent BUT there were also a lot of excuses and blame placed elsewhere.
Cat Herder 10:59 AM 08-14-2014
I took aspergers out of the tag line.
I was using the tag to find some links for techniques.
I am sorry.
I was using the tag to find some links for techniques.
I am sorry.
AmyKidsCo 05:54 PM 08-14-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
Kids who are aggressive or bossy often times feel out of control, so they are trying to control any little aspect of their lives that they can. Is she given choices? Are her parents the "children should be seen and not heard" type or the "my way or the highway" type? Every kid needs to feel they have some kind of control over their lives and it sounds like she had none, so she just takes it.
Also, on the flip side, if there are no boundaries at home and she is running the household, that can be a very scary thing for a kid. They NEED structure and predictability. It makes them feel safe knowing that someone else is running the show and has their back. If that's not there, they may lash out like little tyrants.
Kids who are aggressive or bossy often times feel out of control, so they are trying to control any little aspect of their lives that they can. Is she given choices? Are her parents the "children should be seen and not heard" type or the "my way or the highway" type? Every kid needs to feel they have some kind of control over their lives and it sounds like she had none, so she just takes it.
Also, on the flip side, if there are no boundaries at home and she is running the household, that can be a very scary thing for a kid. They NEED structure and predictability. It makes them feel safe knowing that someone else is running the show and has their back. If that's not there, they may lash out like little tyrants.
I was going to post that it sounds like a control/power issue. Try giving her LOTS of choices over little things you don't care about: Do you want 1 scoop of cereal or 2? (2 little scoops) Do you want a pink bowl or a yellow bowl? Do you want to wear your coat or carry it? Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.
I also agree that it could be that she doesn't have enough limits at home so she's pushing to see where the limits are with you so she'll feel safe and secure. The frustrating thing is that kids test limits under every circumstance - what happens if I do ____ on Monday? On Tuesday? In the morning? In the afternoon? In my pink shirt? Barefoot? Etc.
Hopefully a combination of giving her lots of control over small things and setting firm limits will help her get over her "meanies"
drseuss 05:12 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I took aspergers out of the tag line.
I was using the tag to find some links for techniques.
I am sorry.
Sorry I jumped on you. I am over sensitive about AS and how others perceive it. I must have been extra edgy yesterday on top of that. I took aspergers out of the tag line.
I was using the tag to find some links for techniques.
I am sorry.
Cat Herder 05:22 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
Sorry I jumped on you. I am over sensitive about AS and how others perceive it. I must have been extra edgy yesterday on top of that.
No, being sensitive about that is fair. Sorry I jumped on you. I am over sensitive about AS and how others perceive it. I must have been extra edgy yesterday on top of that.
I am a total a$$ about safe sleep, allowing kids to torment each other and forcing kids to eat. We all have our hot buttons. I think that sometimes people confuse the tags below with judgements about the post itself, not as the tool that leads to more information from previous posts like this.
Blackcat31 05:32 AM 08-15-2014
My son is an Aspie and his blunt manner of speaking was often mistaken as mean or aggressive-like behavior by others.
I think it was the lack of tone or appropriate response during communicating.
It wasn't meant as mean or aggressive but was often perceived that way by many so I can see where Asperger's and "mean" could be connected.
I think it was the lack of tone or appropriate response during communicating.
It wasn't meant as mean or aggressive but was often perceived that way by many so I can see where Asperger's and "mean" could be connected.
EntropyControlSpecialist 05:57 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My son is an Aspie and his blunt manner of speaking was often mistaken as mean or aggressive-like behavior by others.
I think it was the lack of tone or appropriate response during communicating.
It wasn't meant as mean or aggressive but was often perceived that way by many so I can see where Asperger's and "mean" could be connected.
I get told that I am blunt often. Now I am wondering if it is people meaning to say I am mean but not knowing how to do it and not "hurt" my feelings. My son is an Aspie and his blunt manner of speaking was often mistaken as mean or aggressive-like behavior by others.
I think it was the lack of tone or appropriate response during communicating.
It wasn't meant as mean or aggressive but was often perceived that way by many so I can see where Asperger's and "mean" could be connected.
I never really took it as them possibly meaning that I am mean until this thread although I wish people would say, "That sounded mean!" so I could let them know that I did NOT intend it that way. I never intend to be mean.
Ah, self reflection. It is constant thing.
Blackcat31 06:24 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
I get told that I am blunt often. Now I am wondering if it is people meaning to say I am mean but not knowing how to do it and not "hurt" my feelings.
I never really took it as them possibly meaning that I am mean until this thread although I wish people would say, "That sounded mean!" so I could let them know that I did NOT intend it that way. I never intend to be mean.
Ah, self reflection. It is constant thing.
Yes, the continual cycle of self-reflection. I get told that I am blunt often. Now I am wondering if it is people meaning to say I am mean but not knowing how to do it and not "hurt" my feelings.
I never really took it as them possibly meaning that I am mean until this thread although I wish people would say, "That sounded mean!" so I could let them know that I did NOT intend it that way. I never intend to be mean.
Ah, self reflection. It is constant thing.
I think my son had issues because it hurt his feeling when others thought he was being mean (and hurting their feelings) and coupled with the fact he took everything others said very personally made social exchanges hard for him.
Now, it seems he prefaces almost everything he says with some form of
"Don't take this the wrong way..." or "I don't mean this rudely" or some version of a "pre-apology" just in case others misinterpret his intentions.
Makes me sad that he feels he has to "correct" himself before he even says anything.
NightOwl 06:39 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
I was going to post that it sounds like a control/power issue. Try giving her LOTS of choices over little things you don't care about: Do you want 1 scoop of cereal or 2? (2 little scoops) Do you want a pink bowl or a yellow bowl? Do you want to wear your coat or carry it? Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.
I also agree that it could be that she doesn't have enough limits at home so she's pushing to see where the limits are with you so she'll feel safe and secure. The frustrating thing is that kids test limits under every circumstance - what happens if I do ____ on Monday? On Tuesday? In the morning? In the afternoon? In my pink shirt? Barefoot? Etc.
Hopefully a combination of giving her lots of control over small things and setting firm limits will help her get over her "meanies"
We are definitely on the same page!I was going to post that it sounds like a control/power issue. Try giving her LOTS of choices over little things you don't care about: Do you want 1 scoop of cereal or 2? (2 little scoops) Do you want a pink bowl or a yellow bowl? Do you want to wear your coat or carry it? Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.
I also agree that it could be that she doesn't have enough limits at home so she's pushing to see where the limits are with you so she'll feel safe and secure. The frustrating thing is that kids test limits under every circumstance - what happens if I do ____ on Monday? On Tuesday? In the morning? In the afternoon? In my pink shirt? Barefoot? Etc.
Hopefully a combination of giving her lots of control over small things and setting firm limits will help her get over her "meanies"
daycare 08:24 AM 08-15-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
We are definitely on the same page!
I agree with this as well. I have a DCG now age 6 who has been in my care since she was 16 months old.We are definitely on the same page!
Lets just say in this case the apple does not fall far from the tree.
She needs to be in control of everything and everyone and when she is, she is mean. SHe needs to feel the sense of control all of the time.
I have given her other things to do like wash the little kids hands, help them put their shoes, jacket, wash the tables, hand out dishes. She is in control in a very positive way.
If she even thinks about being mean, I set her aside and have her read to herself.
Her mother probably never gives her options, so she is used to being told
do this do that
go to bed
clean your room
etc etc etc
MissAnn 11:21 AM 08-15-2014
Yesterday my girl said "I wish Fred (made up name for DH) was my teacher instead of YOU!!!!! Very snotty tone.
I couldn't help myself...
"I wish Sammy (her brother) was my student instead of YOU!!!!! I said it jokingly, but it still got the point across.
Ever since she has been saccharine sweet towards me.
I couldn't help myself...
"I wish Sammy (her brother) was my student instead of YOU!!!!! I said it jokingly, but it still got the point across.
Ever since she has been saccharine sweet towards me.
Unregistered 10:20 PM 08-15-2014
Wow! I have a 4 year old dcg that is just the same but everytime i put her in a timeout for bad behavior she screams at the top of her lungs that im beating, hitting, throwning her when im 20 feet from her. Im afraid that my neighbors would call the cops because it happens at least once a day. Then today i found out from her 10 year old brother and 6year old sister that she tells her mom and her boyfriend everyday that i beat her before they come to daycare. The family Ida dealing with cps on sexual abuse on this little girl but I'm afraid that she will tell them lies also. I have told the boyfriend(as he is the one that drops off and does most of the pick ups) about each time she is mean or doesn't listen out screams like that. I have told the mom but she does nothing when she sees her kids hitting and bitting each other at pick upand just says they don't do this at home. My husband's thinks i should give them one week to fit this problem as its been told to them for 2.5 months now or they have to find a new daycare for all 5 of their children. I have taken care of kids for 20 years now and never had kids this bad. They smile and laugh when someone gets hurt or in trouble. Any other ideas on how to handle this?
debbiedoeszip 05:48 AM 08-16-2014
I have a friend who works (as in provides professional therapy) with children who have very difficult behaviours. Her advice would probably be (this is based on advice she has given in similar situations) that if the behaviour is merely unpleasant (not violent or destructive) towards another child, then give a brief "that's not nice" or "we don't treat others like that" and then make a big fuss over the "victim" ("Oh, sweetie, are you ok? It doesn't feel very nice when someone shouts at you, does it? There, there. Would you like to do a special activity with me?". Also, make a big (positive) fuss over anyone communicating properly or showing kindness/patience/sharing to others.
NightOwl 10:53 AM 08-16-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Wow! I have a 4 year old dcg that is just the same but everytime i put her in a timeout for bad behavior she screams at the top of her lungs that im beating, hitting, throwning her when im 20 feet from her. Im afraid that my neighbors would call the cops because it happens at least once a day. Then today i found out from her 10 year old brother and 6year old sister that she tells her mom and her boyfriend everyday that i beat her before they come to daycare. The family Ida dealing with cps on sexual abuse on this little girl but I'm afraid that she will tell them lies also. I have told the boyfriend(as he is the one that drops off and does most of the pick ups) about each time she is mean or doesn't listen out screams like that. I have told the mom but she does nothing when she sees her kids hitting and bitting each other at pick upand just says they don't do this at home. My husband's thinks i should give them one week to fit this problem as its been told to them for 2.5 months now or they have to find a new daycare for all 5 of their children. I have taken care of kids for 20 years now and never had kids this bad. They smile and laugh when someone gets hurt or in trouble. Any other ideas on how to handle this?
Woah.... My only advice here is to hand them their walking papers IMMEDIATELY. And I don't say that lightly because I would always rather attempt to solve the issues and termination be a last resort. But this little girl is a threat to your very livelihood and your reputation. With cps already in their business, you are in serious danger of being investigated for child abuse. And this has been going on for 2.5 months? I think you are fortunate that they haven't come knocking yet. Let these people go before they ruin you! And call your licensing rep to tell her the entire situation. 5 kids, that's a huge loss, but not as huge as being shut down pending an investigation.Wow! I have a 4 year old dcg that is just the same but everytime i put her in a timeout for bad behavior she screams at the top of her lungs that im beating, hitting, throwning her when im 20 feet from her. Im afraid that my neighbors would call the cops because it happens at least once a day. Then today i found out from her 10 year old brother and 6year old sister that she tells her mom and her boyfriend everyday that i beat her before they come to daycare. The family Ida dealing with cps on sexual abuse on this little girl but I'm afraid that she will tell them lies also. I have told the boyfriend(as he is the one that drops off and does most of the pick ups) about each time she is mean or doesn't listen out screams like that. I have told the mom but she does nothing when she sees her kids hitting and bitting each other at pick upand just says they don't do this at home. My husband's thinks i should give them one week to fit this problem as its been told to them for 2.5 months now or they have to find a new daycare for all 5 of their children. I have taken care of kids for 20 years now and never had kids this bad. They smile and laugh when someone gets hurt or in trouble. Any other ideas on how to handle this?
EntropyControlSpecialist 01:21 PM 08-16-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yes, the continual cycle of self-reflection.
I think my son had issues because it hurt his feeling when others thought he was being mean (and hurting their feelings) and coupled with the fact he took everything others said very personally made social exchanges hard for him.
Now, it seems he prefaces almost everything he says with some form of
"Don't take this the wrong way..." or "I don't mean this rudely" or some version of a "pre-apology" just in case others misinterpret his intentions.
Makes me sad that he feels he has to "correct" himself before he even says anything.
I do that all the time to my clients. How interesting.Yes, the continual cycle of self-reflection.
I think my son had issues because it hurt his feeling when others thought he was being mean (and hurting their feelings) and coupled with the fact he took everything others said very personally made social exchanges hard for him.
Now, it seems he prefaces almost everything he says with some form of
"Don't take this the wrong way..." or "I don't mean this rudely" or some version of a "pre-apology" just in case others misinterpret his intentions.
Makes me sad that he feels he has to "correct" himself before he even says anything.
EntropyControlSpecialist 01:24 PM 08-16-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
Woah.... My only advice here is to hand them their walking papers IMMEDIATELY. And I don't say that lightly because I would always rather attempt to solve the issues and termination be a last resort. But this little girl is a threat to your very livelihood and your reputation. With cps already in their business, you are in serious danger of being investigated for child abuse. And this has been going on for 2.5 months? I think you are fortunate that they haven't come knocking yet. Let these people go before they ruin you! And call your licensing rep to tell her the entire situation. 5 kids, that's a huge loss, but not as huge as being shut down pending an investigation.
I totally agree. I wouldn't care for her for one more SECOND.Woah.... My only advice here is to hand them their walking papers IMMEDIATELY. And I don't say that lightly because I would always rather attempt to solve the issues and termination be a last resort. But this little girl is a threat to your very livelihood and your reputation. With cps already in their business, you are in serious danger of being investigated for child abuse. And this has been going on for 2.5 months? I think you are fortunate that they haven't come knocking yet. Let these people go before they ruin you! And call your licensing rep to tell her the entire situation. 5 kids, that's a huge loss, but not as huge as being shut down pending an investigation.
Indianadaycare 04:17 PM 08-16-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
Woah.... My only advice here is to hand them their walking papers IMMEDIATELY. And I don't say that lightly because I would always rather attempt to solve the issues and termination be a last resort. But this little girl is a threat to your very livelihood and your reputation. With cps already in their business, you are in serious danger of being investigated for child abuse. And this has been going on for 2.5 months? I think you are fortunate that they haven't come knocking yet. Let these people go before they ruin you! And call your licensing rep to tell her the entire situation. 5 kids, that's a huge loss, but not as huge as being shut down pending an investigation.
Absolutely agree!! I would terminate immediately or risk losing everything you've worked 20 years for. Good luck! I'm sorry you've had to deal with this. Woah.... My only advice here is to hand them their walking papers IMMEDIATELY. And I don't say that lightly because I would always rather attempt to solve the issues and termination be a last resort. But this little girl is a threat to your very livelihood and your reputation. With cps already in their business, you are in serious danger of being investigated for child abuse. And this has been going on for 2.5 months? I think you are fortunate that they haven't come knocking yet. Let these people go before they ruin you! And call your licensing rep to tell her the entire situation. 5 kids, that's a huge loss, but not as huge as being shut down pending an investigation.
Unregistered 09:47 PM 08-16-2014
I so want to kick them to the curb but I finally got my paperwork from the state today so I can get my back payment and just found out that the state is only going to pay from 7/13/14 and I started watching them 5/7/13 with only covering 30 per week for only 4 of the children. So this lady with her copayment owes me over $3500 for the childcare I have already provided. I really could use that money right now but don't think I'll even see any of it from her. I have truly learned my lessen with this lady and how I'm going to change my contract and set rules for my house in writing. I'm dropping the family but any ideas of how to get the money they owe me. I have talked with her caseworker and found out many lies that the mother told me about paperwork being in and etc haven't been true. Any ideas how to get her to pay me if I drop her first or should I wait till she starts paying then drop her and take her to court for the rest?
Angelsj 03:23 AM 08-17-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I so want to kick them to the curb but I finally got my paperwork from the state today so I can get my back payment and just found out that the state is only going to pay from 7/13/14 and I started watching them 5/7/13 with only covering 30 per week for only 4 of the children. So this lady with her copayment owes me over $3500 for the childcare I have already provided. I really could use that money right now but don't think I'll even see any of it from her. I have truly learned my lessen with this lady and how I'm going to change my contract and set rules for my house in writing. I'm dropping the family but any ideas of how to get the money they owe me. I have talked with her caseworker and found out many lies that the mother told me about paperwork being in and etc haven't been true. Any ideas how to get her to pay me if I drop her first or should I wait till she starts paying then drop her and take her to court for the rest?
Even if she didn't have the paperwork in, if you provided services and she was eligible at the time, when you go to small claims, add your oversight agency (ours is DHS, but use whatever yours is) as part of the claim.I so want to kick them to the curb but I finally got my paperwork from the state today so I can get my back payment and just found out that the state is only going to pay from 7/13/14 and I started watching them 5/7/13 with only covering 30 per week for only 4 of the children. So this lady with her copayment owes me over $3500 for the childcare I have already provided. I really could use that money right now but don't think I'll even see any of it from her. I have truly learned my lessen with this lady and how I'm going to change my contract and set rules for my house in writing. I'm dropping the family but any ideas of how to get the money they owe me. I have talked with her caseworker and found out many lies that the mother told me about paperwork being in and etc haven't been true. Any ideas how to get her to pay me if I drop her first or should I wait till she starts paying then drop her and take her to court for the rest?
In a similar situation (also with five kids) I won the suit and DHS paid all but $40 of the claim.
MissAnn 06:03 AM 08-18-2014
I have an update on my mean girl......
This morning was a repeat of the morning a few weeks ago when she screamed at a boy when he arrived after he told her hello. This morning she yelled "NO THANK YOU!!!!" just because he said hello to her. The mom seemed not to notice. I brought it to her attention and told her we are working on her social skills.....that she doesn't have to play with the other kids, she can politely say, "no thank you"....but if a kid says hello to her she should say "hello" back.
Her mom said.....I have NEVER seen her act like that?
I said.....do you remember the other day? It was the same situation. We are working on her social skills though. I just wanted you to be aware.
Has she met her child? Her child acts like this 75% of the time!
This morning was a repeat of the morning a few weeks ago when she screamed at a boy when he arrived after he told her hello. This morning she yelled "NO THANK YOU!!!!" just because he said hello to her. The mom seemed not to notice. I brought it to her attention and told her we are working on her social skills.....that she doesn't have to play with the other kids, she can politely say, "no thank you"....but if a kid says hello to her she should say "hello" back.
Her mom said.....I have NEVER seen her act like that?
I said.....do you remember the other day? It was the same situation. We are working on her social skills though. I just wanted you to be aware.
Has she met her child? Her child acts like this 75% of the time!
EntropyControlSpecialist 08:08 AM 08-18-2014
Originally Posted by MissAnn:
I have an update on my mean girl......
This morning was a repeat of the morning a few weeks ago when she screamed at a boy when he arrived after he told her hello. This morning she yelled "NO THANK YOU!!!!" just because he said hello to her. The mom seemed not to notice. I brought it to her attention and told her we are working on her social skills.....that she doesn't have to play with the other kids, she can politely say, "no thank you"....but if a kid says hello to her she should say "hello" back.
Her mom said.....I have NEVER seen her act like that?
I said.....do you remember the other day? It was the same situation. We are working on her social skills though. I just wanted you to be aware.
Has she met her child? Her child acts like this 75% of the time!
That is just sad.I have an update on my mean girl......
This morning was a repeat of the morning a few weeks ago when she screamed at a boy when he arrived after he told her hello. This morning she yelled "NO THANK YOU!!!!" just because he said hello to her. The mom seemed not to notice. I brought it to her attention and told her we are working on her social skills.....that she doesn't have to play with the other kids, she can politely say, "no thank you"....but if a kid says hello to her she should say "hello" back.
Her mom said.....I have NEVER seen her act like that?
I said.....do you remember the other day? It was the same situation. We are working on her social skills though. I just wanted you to be aware.
Has she met her child? Her child acts like this 75% of the time!