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Old 04-23-2013, 10:51 AM
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Hey all,

I have had some problems with a DCP recently, and not sure what I can do if anything. Here is what is going on:

My children are good children.... And I am not one of those mothers that says her rotten kid is good. You can ask anyone who has spent any amount of time with my kids and they will tell you the same thing. Some daycares are just not a good fit, but if a daycare is not a good fit, then admit it for what it is. Don’t blame it on the child! Don’t force parents to move their children quickly by charging them an outrageous amount of money.

My oldest son is in the Autism spectrum. His areas are sensory, social situations and communication. He tends to seek out certain sensations (tickling, heavy touch, rough housing) and avoids others (kisses, anything sticky) He does not understand appropriate social behavior and has a hard time communicating with his peers. He is a very black and white rule oriented child. Either its ok or its not. He has been attending ABC daycare since September 2012. From the time my children started there they have been rough housing with the providers husband. It is a “special treat” and something they get to do if they have had a good day/week. Soon after they started there my youngest son scratched another kid in the eye (her child). It was a inappropriate reaction, but it was also provoked. A few months later my oldest son hit another child. The provider, had assigned my son as her “helper.” It was clean up time and the toddler boy would not clean up, my son took the toy away from him to put away, the toddler took the toy back, my son hit him. When I talked to my son about it he admitted that he had hit him because he “took the toy away from him and wouldn’t clean up” the last incident was the one that caused the provider to remove my children from her daycare. The boys (my oldest, my youngest, her 5 year old and her 3 year old) were “racing” outside. The 3 year old was in the lead an my son pushed him, the child fell and busted his lip open. When my son was asked why he pushed the other child he said it was “because he wanted to win.” The 3 incidents listed are the only ones I have been notified about besides some rough-housing.

On 4/18/13 I received a letter from the provider after she picked up my oldest son at preschool stating that my childcare was being terminated because my children are too rough. I had 4 weeks to remove my children and I needed to pay $1200 plus whatever I was past due (300 for the week I received the termination notice) on or before 4/26/13. As that dollar amount was more than my entire paycheck, I was forced to find temporary daycare as soon as possible. I was able to find someone for the following Monday, so my children would only need to attend her daycare for one more day. I decided not to inform her until the last minute that my children would no longer be attending. But due to my oldest overhearing a phone conversation, 11:00 that day she was made aware that it would be their last day. She asked if I was going to pay her. I let her know that I would pay her 4/26/13. (this is not only the normal day that I paid her but the day specified in my written notice). She said "OK." After leaving and heading back to work I received a text message from her saying I need to pay her 300.00 cash (I have never paid cash) by 515 that day or she would turn me over to collection.

The provider never notified me that there was a problem other then the ones i have mentioned already. I don't pick up my children most days as i work longer hours. MY boyfriend or my mother usually picks them up. We all work together to make sure my boys are where they need to be when they need to be there and we are all able to fulfill our work obligations. Even though I might not be there at pick up or drop off time. she has my number and she does not hesitate to contact me about getting paid. but I have heard nothing about my childs behavior.
My childcare was terminated because my children were "too rough." I have called preschool teachers, special ED teachers, back up and former daycare providers. None of the people I have contacted have any reports of either one of my children is being rough. As I said before, my oldest sees everything in black and white. Good or bad, wright or wrong. Her husband was roughhousing with my son earlier this week. It happens frequently, and my son seeks it out because it is a sensation he enjoys. The provider will grab him and tickle him in a form of roughhouse play, this I have also witnessed recently. I don’t have a problem with this behavior because it is enjoyable for my son. But here lies the problem. The providers have made it ok for my son to roughhouse but now no longer want him to attend their daycare because he is too rough. My son doesn’t understand that something is ok sometimes and not ok other times. He doesn’t understand that it is ok to do things with some people and not with others. He knows They are the boss at daycare. They roughhouse with him at daycare. Therefore roughhousing is ok at daycare. He doesn’t understand that others have feelings, and he doesn’t understand when it is to stop a behavior. So this rough behavior that he is being punished for, is caused by them. But my son is the one who is punished.

So even though his behavior is not ok, it is caused by the environment. But instead of taking responsibility for cause of the behavior, she decides that my children are too rough to attend her daycare. I receive a text message every other thursday night before payment is due reminding me to pay the following day but not one message about my sons behavior. I now think my children were asked to leave for another reason. On the list you sent me I noticed Provider was listed under the self-declared providers, and as a self declared provider, she is only allowed to have 5 children, including her own. the provider had 8. she had my two boys, plus 4 other children, only one of my boys where there until 1030-1100 each day. She also has 2 after school. From 3 to 5 she had 8 kids. And i was contacted from someone who wanted to ask me some questions about her daycare because her 10 month old was starting on Monday. She also posted on her facebook site that her mom was moving to town, and once that happened she would be taking on more kids.

Another issue I have is that i have been required to pay for every time she has been closed. Her contract does state I have to pay if my child is there or not, and she has paid holidays and lists the holidays. It does not state anything about sick days or vacation days being paid. But I have paid for all of them. this has been a total of 10 days since the 1st of the year. I have had to pay for vacation days before with past daycares and have no problem with that, but with past daycares it was always stated clearly in the contract to expect those charges. This is particularly upsetting to me now in light of what happened today.

As I mentioned before. I received a text message at 1154 am, after we had verbally agreed that i would pay on 4/26/13, "I will need the $300.00 tonight by 5:15. And cash only? Also if not pd it will. go to collections. I will have there. things packed up." I called my boyfriend and explained the text message and situation as he picks up the kids. I told him i do not have 300.00 right now, I could not go to the bank to get cash and wouldn't have it anyways until my payday (4/26/13). He said he would speak with the provider for me when he picked up the boys. I did not respond to her message. When boyfriend arrived to pick up my boys, she asked if i had given him any money. He told her I had not and would pay her on the previously agreed upon day. She refused to give my children the blankets that they had brought to daycare for quite time because I had not paid. This caused my autistic son much distress and he had a total melt down. My son was heartbroken. All he wanted was his blanket and she refused to give it to him until I pay her the 300.00.

I understand that neither one of us have probably handled the situation very well, but her completely unprofessional behavior is uncalled for. She has a dispute with me, not my son. He does not deserve the treatment He has received. All the poor kid wanted was his angry birds blanket, I have never not paid or shorted her before. Every check i have given her has been good. If there were any financial problems I would make her aware of them and make arrangements with her. there is no reason for her to believe that I would not pay her on the date we originally agreed. And to cause my child to have a complete meltdown to prove a point to me, is completely uncalled for.

Change is not an easy thing for a child with autism. And the events that happened today will definitely have a negative affect on my son. I did tell my children that Provider did not want them to go to her house anymore. They wanted to know why today was there last day, and I do not believe in lying to my children, especially when it is something they may overhear in a conversation. Since DS is so grounded in rules and reality, not in pretend or the abstract, if i am truthful in my answers with him and explain things in a logical way that he will understand he his more accepting of the change.

I contacted social services and they are going to look into the roughhousing and the too many children, but they cannot address "contract disputes" and feel that the rest of my issue are contract related. I am not sure what I can do. I live in an area where childcare is very hard to find and alot of providers are taking advantage of this. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 04-23-2013 at 12:06 PM. Reason: removed identifying info
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:00 AM
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I am not understanding why she initially wanted $1200.

She gave you a two week notice period. You opted to terminate care earlier. How many weeks notice did the contract you signed say you needed to provide?
Is any of the termination (her terminating the contract or you) in writing?
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:02 AM
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1200 is the charge for 4 weeks. she actually wanted 1500. 1200 for the 4 weeks she agreed to keep my children and 300 for the previous week. The contract stated that I need to give 4 weeks notice if I am terminating care. It did not say anything if she is terminating care.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:07 AM
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The termination notice is in writing and is

"I am giving you your notice for Daycare Termination as of 4-18-13 for your children, XXXXX and XXXXX. You will have four weeks to find other arrangements. As a Daycare provider, I cannot allow your children to be rough in my Daycare. We have had too many accidents with other children getting hurt and after reviewing the circumstances, I have made decision let them go. You will have to pay $1200.00 for the care of the xxxxx and xxxx for 4 weeks of childcare, plus your current balance, within or by 4-16-13, this is also stated within the Full Contract you have signed."

When I reviewed the contract I signed, it stated that when I termintated care i needed to give 4 weeks notice and payment was due upon reciept of notice for the 4 weeks. it said nothing about the provider terminating notice.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 04-23-2013 at 12:08 PM. Reason: removed identifying info
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:20 AM
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If a provider terminates care you are not required to pay the 4 week notice. She terminated the contract. You do need to pay the 300 on the date it is due on. If she turns it into collection you dispute the charge stating provider terminated care and the 1200 is for services not provided.

As far as the blanket I would go back and ask for it to be returned. It is stealing. If you happen to know an off duty officer it would be nice if they went with you.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:40 AM
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Although the contract says nothing about the provider terminating care she has given you a 4 week notice of termination which you would have to pay if you were the one who decided to terminate services. If however she gave you a 2 week notice and expected you to pay for 4 weeks then you would not be obligated to pay for those additional 2 weeks of care that you would not be given. Even though she has given you notice you are obligated to give a minimum of 4 weeks notice if you terminate so you can't really get out of paying for 4 weeks KWIM?

So it's your decision now whether you keep your child with her or not for the remaining time of your termination notice but you will be obligated to pay her regardless of whether your kids stay there or not.

As far as payment goes well ... I send a certified letter to her quoting the amount on the signed contract that was agreed upon as well as the payment due dates. There is no reason why you should have to pay a huge lump sum on a particular day simply because now she is demanding it. You can continue to pay the amount that you owe each week on the day that the contact says. For example if your contract says you are required to pay $300 on Mondays for the week then you can continue to pay $300 on Mondays.

Can you quote your payment terms for your contract for us?

If you are late in paying your DCP for last week already then really you owe her that money. If she has late payment fees in the contract then she is owed those as well. If you are late paying the $300 then yes she can report you to collections for the debt that is due because it is late but not for the remaining $1200 because that amount is not due yet.

When was this $300 due?

As far as your child being black and white and not understanding that rough housing is only appropriate some of the time and not others ... I am sorry but apparently he does because your child knows that it's not appropriate behavior anywhere else except while at your DC providers home (you stated that your child doesn't have these issues anywhere else).

I know that it is difficult for children with certain disorders or behavioral issues to understand certain things however at this point you have to realize that whether it's your provider's fault or not your child has now become a liability which can lead to a potentially more dangerous situation. If it is her fault and she initiated the approval of this behavior in her daycare which led to the aggresive nehavior towards other children it seems to me as if she now realizes this and is correcting the situation now by removing your child. And regardless or not whether the provider approved of the rough housing ... so did you ... you knew it was happening and were okay with it until it became a problem for you (the provider terminating) and did not discourage it or ask for it to stop knowing that your child is "black and white" and might not be able to distinguish between when the play is appropriate and when it isn't.

As difficukt as it is for you to see it from her stand-point it is just as difficult for her to see it from yours. I think the best thing for your family and hers is to go your seperate ways, which you are doing.

She has given you 4 weeks notice of termination, if you want to leave earlier than that you can but unfortunately you are still liable to pay for the final termination period .
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itlw8 View Post
If a provider terminates care you are not required to pay the 4 week notice. She terminated the contract. You do need to pay the 300 on the date it is due on. If she turns it into collection you dispute the charge stating provider terminated care and the 1200 is for services not provided.

As far as the blanket I would go back and ask for it to be returned. It is stealing. If you happen to know an off duty officer it would be nice if they went with you.
I disagree with this and know of a provider in my state (CA) who fought a situation like this and won. The provider is not terminating care until 4 weeks which means that the contract is still valid for 4 weeks from the date of the notice regardless of whether the contract has anything in it about provider termination. The parent is choosing to remove their child before the 4 weeks are up but technically the contract is still valid for another 4 weeks. If the contract says that the parent must pay regardless of attendance then she may still be obligated to pay.

To Parent: Can you quote the contract that talks about this so that we can get a little more insight please?

I'm sure it can be different in every state and the parent might have a chance if she fights this in court and although even I think that paying for 4 weeks is unfair the parent is probably still obligated to follow the contract that she agreed to.

Upon thinking about this situation further the parent could also take the provider to court to remove the charges nd try to claim that why if the provider thought that her child was so dangerous that she had to terminate care would she want him for another 4 weeks vs terminating his care immediately??? Money of course. The provider gets paid for an addition 4 weeks vs none.

Personally I would terminate care for this child immediately and call it a wash if it was as "dangerous" as the parent says the provider is claiming.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:56 AM
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my payments were due every other friday. the 300 is not due until 4/26/13 (I pay 600.00 every other friday two weeks care at a time)

When my son hit the toddler at daycare, I mentioned that he was a black and white child. I have actually mentioned this lots of times. And I asked if it had happened after roughhousing with her husband when it was reported to me. I explained to her that once he starts roughhousing, he does not always know when to stop or that its not ok to do it with the other kids. I told her I was ok with the roughhousing, since it is a sensation he enjoys as long as it was not causing any problems for her. But I did warn her. I also gave her resources to read about my child and started a conversation between her, myself and his preschool teacher about some of his behaviors and potential triggers.

He roughhoused there because it was made ok. He understands that some behaviors are ok in some places and not in others. Church we are quiet because it is church, that is the rule. outside is for running, that is the rule. Grandmas we dont roughhouse, thats the rule. Moms we dont roughhouse thats the rule. School we sit in our desk and dont run in the halls, thats the rule. Daycare we roughhouse with Mr Joe. When they would roughhouse there it would be her two boys and my two boys and the husband. Since it Mr. Joe did it with him and the other boys, it must be ok.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 04-23-2013 at 12:10 PM. Reason: removed identifying info
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I disagree with this and know of a provider in my state (CA) who fought a situation like this and won. The provider is not terminating care until 4 weeks which means that the contract is still valid for 4 weeks from the date of the notice regardless of whether the contract has anything in it about provider termination. The parent is choosing to remove their child before the 4 weeks are up but technically the contract is still valid for another 4 weeks. If the contract says that the parent must pay regardless of attendance then she may still be obligated to pay.
My only arguement on this is that the notice she provided me is that care was terminated that day. My children have been pulled out, and that is why she demanded payment early. When she found out friday was going to be the last day my children would be there, she only wanted the 300 for that week. but she wanted cash on the spot. She is no longer asking for the 1200.00 so i think that amount was because she knew i would not be able to pay it and to get my children out before the end of the 4 weeks.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:22 PM
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I guess I don't understand what the problem is?? If the contract says the payment would be due on 4/26 and it doesn't say anything about it being due on the last day of services if services are terminated then the payment is due on 4/26. That is only 3 days from now- if you pay her then I seriously doubt she would send you to collections. What would she send you for? You wouldn't owe any late fees and you would have already paid her. Am I missing something?

It sounds like this daycare was not a good fit for either your family or the provider. That happens sometimes. Every family is different and every provider is different and sometimes that just doesn't mesh well. Personally I see lots of things that would not mesh well with me as a parent, or me as a provider on both sides of the issue per your post.

All said and done though- if the provider doesn't feel that she can provide the correct level/type of care for your child and keep everyone safe then it is not a good fit and it is best for everyone to part ways.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:25 PM
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The reasons that she terminated your contract really don't matter in this situation. She gave you 4 weeks notice and agreed to provide care for those four weeks. You owe her the normal amount of tuition for those 4 weeks plus whatever you are past due. An argument could be made that you can pay her on your normal schedule during the termination period rather than all at once.

I'm sure the reason she wants you to pay the past due amount of $300 now is because you decided to pull your kids with no notice and the only way she found out about it is because of something your child said. Those are the signs that a provider is getting ready to be stiffed.

All of the other issues will have no bearing on anything if this goes to court. The only thing that will be taken into consideration there will be the terms of the contract.

As far as the blanket situation, that was just unprofessional on her part, so shame on her for that.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:31 PM
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I agree that it is time to part ways. the whole thing came to me as a shock and that had me upset. What also has me upset is the refusal to give my son his blanket. I know there are only a few days left until the due date, and incidently my payday (why i cannot pay this early) but every day my son doesnt have it is not an enjoyable day.

I feel like this DCP has been charging me unethically since the getgo, and this is the most recient example. This area has a complete lack of childcare providers, so I have been paying charges I do not agree with because I thought I had found a decent provider. I was not aware of the issues she was having with him besides the 2 isolated issues. in the last 4 months I have paid for every day she has been closed. A total of 10 days (besides holidays). I do know every DCP has the right to paid vacation, just like I do, but there is nothing on the contract stating this. The contract says I need to pay every day my child is not at daycare, and she has the following paid holidays: new years, easter, memeorial day, independence day, labor day, thanksgiving day, day after thanksgiving, christmas eve and christmas day. These days are paid even if they fall on a weekend. It doesnt say anything about being required to pay all vacation and sick days she takes as well.

I feel ripped off. And i dont want others to get ripped off, but also feel like in this situation, I have no rights.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:39 PM
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There is a difference between "roughhousing" and hitting and pushing. It is up to the provider to decide on the safety of the children in her care. If she feels the other children (even if they are her own) are being injured by your child, despite the fact that he has autism, it is up to her whether she lets him go or not.
As far as payment, your contract seems to state that four weeks notice of termination is required by you as well as payment for these weeks. So she is terminating but giving you that notice. If you decide to pull out before that 4 weeks, you must still pay. She also stated that the fees for the 4 weeks is due at the beginning of the final four weeks. As for the $300, is that to cover care that has already happened (regardless of when it's due)? If so, this provider is just trying to get her money in the even that you may try to disappear and not pay her at all (it happens all the time). I have also with held children's items until payment has been made. I don't say "shame on her". I have kept items and the family never came back to pay me ever, so their items were sold in the next year's yard sale, in order to recoup a pittance of what they owed me.
As far as paying for sick days and vacationd days, you said her contract states that you must pay for days regardless of attendance - obviously covers sick days and vacation days.
Just a question.....were these blankets that stayed at the providers? I just wondered why your son was so upset if it was something that normally stayed there anyways. But perhaps the blankets went back and forth from home everyday, something I wouldn't allow.

In the end it sounds like this provider is abiding by all the policies in her contract and making sure she receives all monies owed to her. I'm sorry this has happened and I'm sure it is upsetting to be terminated, but I don't see that this provider has done anything outside of her contract.

oops, was it her holidays and vacation days you had to pay, or yours? If it was hers, then if there was nothing in the contract covering this I would have brought it up at the time it happened. But you payed her and continued to pay her and keep your child there until this incident. It's a little late to say you didn't like her policies (whether fair or not) after you've been let go. If unhappy (in future arrangements) with care or policies you should look for alternate arrangements on your own

Last edited by daycaremum; 04-23-2013 at 12:42 PM. Reason: added text
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:34 PM
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I agree I shoucl have said something at the time, but I was fearful of loosing my daycare. I am a single mother. my son is 5. 5 year olds sometimes hit, and sometimes push. He pushed 1 time that was reported to me and hit 1 time that was reported to me. both were 3 months apart and the only 2 things that happened since september 2012. Both were never repeated. If a rule is clearly defined my son will follow it. My son was hit so he hit back. Once he was told it was not ok to hit even if someone hits you 1st. he never did it again. He pushed a kid while they were racing to get ahead of him. Once he was told we dont push and when we push while playing a game or sport to win, its called cheating and we lose, it never happened again.

I do not feel this are out of the ordinary behavior for a 5 year old, autistic or not.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:02 PM
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It was a blanket I supplied for daycare use and stayed at daycare. He picked it out as his "daycare blanket" and was for quiet time. A child with autism does not process things the same as a "normal" child will. They are very grounded in routine and rules. the rule is at quiet time he grabs his daycare blanket and lays down on his mat. He knew he was not going to be going back to that daycare, and he cannot do quiet time without his blanket. He "needs" it to go to the new daycare for quiet time. I have tried a different blanket until we get his back, but it does not work.

Its the same when i drop him off at preschool. I have to wave at him from outside after i drop him off. If this does not happen it disrupts his entire routine, he will melt down and will not be able to cooperate with anything until I wave. The teachers have called me on my cellphone to come wave at him when someone else dropped him off and forgot. They could not get him to do anything until this happened. He just sat and cried "grandma forgot to wave"

The simplest of things can set off his entire routine, and will make the enire day difficult
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:02 PM
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Slightly OT: as providers, are we legally able to withhold items that belong to clients?
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
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my payments were due every other friday. the 300 is not due until 4/26/13 (I pay 600.00 every other friday two weeks care at a time)
Okay I see now, if your payment due date is 4/26 then that is when the payment is due. She can't tell you to pay it in full now or send you to collections if you don't pay it now because contractually it isn't late until 4/26.

If she sends you to collections anyway she will have to show proof of the debt that is owed to her. If the agency is smart and professional they will not take her claim, if they aren't and decide to take a gamble and take the claim anyway you can wait for a collection notice and communicate with the agency in writing. Send them copies of your contract and the notice. I would also send your provider a certified letter recapping that she is letting you pull you child without having to pay the 4 weeks termination notice and request in that same letter that she has items belonging to your child (itemize and describe them) and that she is refusing to return them to you until you pay the $300 which is not due until 4/26. Attach a copy of the contract to the letter and highlight that part. Request that she immediately return your child's belongings as you are not in breach of the contract and that all further communication be done in writing via certified mail, text or email (so that you have a paper trail).

Quote:
When my son hit the toddler at daycare, I mentioned that he was a black and white child. I have actually mentioned this lots of times....
Thank you for this additional information. It makes a big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imtatum View Post
My only arguement on this is that the notice she provided me is that care was terminated that day.
By who? If the provider gave you a 4 week notice then your contract is valid for 4 more weeks regardless of whether or not your child attends the daycare. If it was your choice to pull your children then you are legally still obligated to pay for that time unless she agrees to release you from the contract. From how you worded it, it seemed to me as if you found immediate alternative arrangements and were not going to notify her of this until the last minute ... meaning you were going to leave and stiff her for the remainind balance.

When she asked you about it after hearing about it from your child did she then agree to release you from your contract without having to pay the remaining balance? If this is the case then yes, you are only obligated to pay the $300 that she is agreed to allow you to pay.

In any case I would not pay the $300 in cash unless she gives you a receipt. I can see why she wants the $300 immediately, she is afraid that you will not pay her for the week that she is owed. You can always explain that you do not have the money and won't it have until your next paycheck and ask her if she would agree to a post dated check in exchange for your child's items. If not then just pick up the items when you give her the $300. If you pay cash, get a receipt.

You can then also attempt to negotiate a partial payment for the return of your child's blanket and agree to pay the remainder of the balance on the 26th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imtatum View Post
I feel like this DCP has been charging me unethically since the getgo, ... in the last 4 months I have paid for every day she has been closed. A total of 10 days (besides holidays). I do know every DCP has the right to paid vacation, just like I do, but there is nothing on the contract stating this. The contract says I need to pay every day my child is not at daycare, and she has the following paid holidays: new years, easter, memeorial day, independence day, labor day, thanksgiving day, day after thanksgiving, christmas eve and christmas day. These days are paid even if they fall on a weekend. It doesnt say anything about being required to pay all vacation and sick days she takes as well.
If this is true and you have a way to prove this (maybe talk to one of the other DC parents??) then you can take her to small claims court for this. If you paid for days that weren't in the contract as being pad days then you should have never paid for them. It is YOUR responsibility to make sure that you are paying as contracted, I would never have paid for these days if I didn't sign a contract for this.

You might be able to deduct the prorated amount for these days from your balance owed and send her a letter notifying her of this if but she will probably keep your child's items and might take you to small claims court and it will then be up to you to prove that you were charged for days that you should not have been charged for. You have the burden of proof to show the amounts that you paid, your child's attendance, your child's absences and the contract. If you can't prove this then this money is a lost cause.

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Originally Posted by imtatum View Post
5 year olds sometimes hit, and sometimes push. I do not feel this are out of the ordinary behavior for a 5 year old, autistic or not.
I disagree. Although I agree that it is not out of the scope that some children with disorders and developmental delays may show aggression and they "don't know better" I believe that it is absolutely not normal for a typical 5 year old to do so. At age 5 they should already know the difference between right and wrong and know that physical aggresion is not acceptible. Any child age 5 or older that is aggressive has not been properly taught how to handle their emotions. On top of the 2 infants that I care for I have two 2 year olds, two 3 year olds, one 4 year old and an 8 yo. None of them hit. It would be normal for the 2yo's or an early 3yo to hit, but not so much for children older than that. I expect that a 4yo child know without a doubt that hitting is not appropriate. Your child is autistic and depending on the severity of it I would agree that it is typical behavior of some autistic children to show aggression.
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Last edited by Blackcat31; 04-23-2013 at 02:34 PM. Reason: fixed quotations
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by craftymissbeth View Post
Slightly OT: as providers, are we legally able to withhold items that belong to clients?
No, I do not believe it is legal to withhold belongings from a family because of money being owed.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:33 PM
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IMO I think there must be other issues leading up to the termination. Either your child has been being aggressive other times, or dealing with his individual needs is more than she feels she is capable of doing while also caring for other children.

As providers, even when we care for little ones for a living because we love it, it is still for a living. It doesn't benefit the provider to term a paying client, chance having a parent cause problems for her (rightly or wrongly), and have to re-fill that opening. I can't imagine a provider terming a family for 2 instances 3 months apart, with no notice to the parent that the term was coming if XYZ didn't change.

It is possible she didn't inform you of these issues (per your email she has been less than professional in other ways so maybe she is inexperienced?). Either way it is best for your child to not be in the care of a provider unable to care for him w/i her group of children.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:14 PM
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It has to be extreme for my autistic child to hit or push. It is not normal behavior for,him. After both incidents I contacted his teachers and therapist. The teacher, who also teaches the child of the provider, asked me if I believed it. She did not think it happened. A fit yes but not aggression. His therapist also was shocked. He can be aggressive with his brother but,usually it is the,other way around.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:17 PM
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There is a daycare crises here right now. I found out after my kids,were out she was over her limit, and already had my Childers spots filled.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:26 PM
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There is a daycare crises here right now. I found out after my kids,were out she was over her limit, and already had my Childers spots filled.
If she is over her limit then this is reportable to licensing and could be dangerous
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:34 PM
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If she is over her limit then this is reportable to licensing and could be dangerous
It has been reported. IMO she terminated my care because it is in my contract that my rates won't be raised until 2014. She can charge more money and have an easier child by letting mine go. I didn't keep mg pulling them a secret to stiff her. I am not that kind of person. But with everything else going on I was worried. And I didn't have confirmation until after I dropped off the boys that morning that they could start in the temp place on Monday.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:09 PM
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It has been reported. IMO she terminated my care because it is in my contract that my rates won't be raised until 2014. She can charge more money and have an easier child by letting mine go. I didn't keep mg pulling them a secret to stiff her. I am not that kind of person. But with everything else going on I was worried. And I didn't have confirmation until after I dropped off the boys that morning that they could start in the temp place on Monday.
So once you knew you discussed it with her correct? And she released you of your contract? As in she agreed that you didn't have to stay and pay the rest of the month's fees correct? I'm still wondering about this.

I'm not saying that you are "that type of person", just saying that it's what it looks like. If your provider was looking for a reason to terminate your care then filling your spot with someone else could be a good reason, it would make sense to let you leave early and not expect payment if she had someone to fill your spot for more money that what she would be getting from you.

Did she give you receipts for your payments? Did you give her checks? These could serve to your purpose as evidence that you paid the same amount every week. If you can convince another parent to stand as your witness that there were days that she closed other than holidays and that can remember or has written the dates down then this can be the proof you need in small claims court should she take you there if you decide to deduct the amount for these days from your amount owed. You never know it might help (if that is something that you are entertaining). It would be best to talk to a lawyer about it but I know how difficult that is financially.

Let this also serve as a learning experience. Make sure that the next place has a clause in the contract about termination and that it charges you correctly. If you were paying cash before make sure to expect receipts this time or pay through checks so that you have proof that you paid. It stinks that this situation got nasty but at least your child will be in better hands.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:49 PM
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I don't know...I've been following this thread all day and something is just not feeling right to me. I think there are multiple issues and some things seem "off". The $ part for one as well as the contract. Since I can't see the actual document all I can say is you need to follow it and from what I gathered the provider was trying to do it in the right way but it was very confusing in the OP's original post and PP's have attempted to go through that part so I won't other than to say it "seemed" like the provider was doing what was right in a very round about way. The contract may be vague about her taking vacations/personal/sick days so the OP now knows what to look for in the future but why not ask for clarification the FIRST time it happened??

It also seems to me that the OP is not taking responsibility for her DS actions and instead is making excuses for them. There have been contradictions as well regarding this. In the OP she says he admitted to hitting another child but then later says he's not aggressive and after talking to his teacher and therapist wonders if it happened at all?

I would not allow violence in my daycare period. Once I made a decision to term I would start advertising asap hoping to fill the spot with no gap to my income. This provider could also have a waiting list. Once the OP said she was not coming back of course the spot would be filled...Maybe the spot was ready for someone after the 4 weeks notice the provider gave and when she realized you were leaving with no notice she let the new family know they could start sooner. If I had a family act so secretive about leaving I would also have asked for a cash payment and wonder about checks clearing or if in fact I would even be paid.

Something just seems off about this whole story IMO...
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NeedaVaca View Post
I don't know...I've been following this thread all day and something is just not feeling right to me. I think there are multiple issues and some things seem "off". The $ part for one as well as the contract. Since I can't see the actual document all I can say is you need to follow it and from what I gathered the provider was trying to do it in the right way but it was very confusing in the OP's original post and PP's have attempted to go through that part so I won't other than to say it "seemed" like the provider was doing what was right in a very round about way. The contract may be vague about her taking vacations/personal/sick days so the OP now knows what to look for in the future but why not ask for clarification the FIRST time it happened??

It also seems to me that the OP is not taking responsibility for her DS actions and instead is making excuses for them. There have been contradictions as well regarding this. In the OP she says he admitted to hitting another child but then later says he's not aggressive and after talking to his teacher and therapist wonders if it happened at all?

I would not allow violence in my daycare period. Once I made a decision to term I would start advertising asap hoping to fill the spot with no gap to my income. This provider could also have a waiting list. Once the OP said she was not coming back of course the spot would be filled...Maybe the spot was ready for someone after the 4 weeks notice the provider gave and when she realized you were leaving with no notice she let the new family know they could start sooner. If I had a family act so secretive about leaving I would also have asked for a cash payment and wonder about checks clearing or if in fact I would even be paid.

Something just seems off about this whole story IMO...
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NeedaVaca View Post
Since I can't see the actual document all I can say is you need to follow it and from what I gathered the provider was trying to do it in the right way but it was very confusing in the OP's original post and PP's have attempted to go through that part so I won't other than to say it "seemed" like the provider was doing what was right in a very round about way.
I suppose I can see what you mean about this part. I know I for one have asked at least 3 times whether the provider agreed to release her from the contract before the 4 weeks were up and still have not gotten an answer. Pretty much everything else was answered except for this question
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:32 PM
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How did you find special needs childcare so fast in a childcare crisis time?
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:04 AM
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Good question queen nannyde... Lol.. My special needs 10 year old daughter and I were reading some of your very awesome methods on your website and peanut looked at me and said... Mama she's the queen nanny!!

Anyway... I got distracted sorry... I'm also curious about if the provider nixed the 1200 .. If she DID.. You better get that in writing for real!!

As the mom and provider of a few special needs in my time, I do have to completely agree that hitting and pushing are NOT normal for a five year old. However, it's actually not that abnormal at all for an autistic five year old. They have a horrible time socially and how they relate to other les is very skewed... Sometimes even reality is skewed. But gosh yes, they are well known for the concrete thinking... The gray areas totally set them off. My daughter when she was smaller had a lot more issues with it. I had to keep reminding myself that socially she was not her age and I never compared her to how the AVERAGE five year old etc would respond to something.

Having said that, there does seem to be more to the story. Personally I'd say a good rule of thumb for the future...l go exactly by that contract. If something doesn't follow it, bring it up. Letting things go just leads to resentments and your kids feed off of that.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post

Did she give you receipts for your payments? Did you give her checks? These could serve to your purpose as evidence that you paid the same amount every week. If you can convince another parent to stand as your witness that there were days that she closed other than holidays and that can remember or has written the dates down then this can be the proof you need in small claims court should she take you there if you decide to deduct the amount for these days from your amount owed. You never know it might help (if that is something that you are entertaining). It would be best to talk to a lawyer about it but I know how difficult that is financially.

.
I always paid with a check as well as get a reciept. I have allways done this as a portion of my child support is dependent on childcare cost. And I have learned a very valuble lesson on this. And continue to. legal action is not an option for me at this time, and since i didnt say anything at the time of the charges, I am letting it go. I guess I am still at a point where I want others to know and beware.

I have reported what I can to social services and she did only ask me for the 300.00 not any more. I will be paying it on friday as originally agreed and will be paying by check. My only concern is if she is going to accept my check since she demanded cash and if she is going to return my sons blanket. I have done what i can to try to substitute for my son but it is still majorly affecting his routine and is a daily issue.

I am most upset because I feel like a dispute between her and I was taken much further than needed and my son was harmed. It might not seem like a big deal to most, but if you have ever dealt with an autistic child you understand how bid of a deal it can be.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by NeedaVaca View Post

It also seems to me that the OP is not taking responsibility for her DS actions and instead is making excuses for them. There have been contradictions as well regarding this. In the OP she says he admitted to hitting another child but then later says he's not aggressive and after talking to his teacher and therapist wonders if it happened at all?
I believe my son hit the child. He admited it. He was also provoked. My point is, it is not normal behavior for him. The situation was delt with and he never hit again in the 4 more months he was there. He pushed a child the day before he was terminated. He admitted it, it was addressed with hiim. It was also an out of the ordinary experiance.

I am not makeing excuses for him.... but is not aggressive ANYWHERE else. That is my point. I believe after reviewing the situations it happened, but they were also very avoidable. He is autistic and does have special needs.

I didnt want to let her know i wasnt staying the 4 weeks right away because i was fearful it would affect my childs care. was it a sound fear, maybe, maybe not. I know it was a highly emotional situation for both me and the provider and a possibility.

but you are right. there is one more thing that i have left out. Up until this happend, i was friends with the provider. Our families did things together outside of daycare. I was upset (now just hurt) that she would not talk to me about a problem she was having with my son. Whenever we talked she understood his triggers and avoiding them.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
How did you find special needs childcare so fast in a childcare crisis time?
a friend and SAHM is watching my boys until i find a new daycare. She was my backup daycare and has a son who is also autistic the same age as my son
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post

Anyway... I got distracted sorry... I'm also curious about if the provider nixed the 1200 .. If she DID.. You better get that in writing for real!!

As the mom and provider of a few special needs in my time, I do have to completely agree that hitting and pushing are NOT normal for a five year old. However, it's actually not that abnormal at all for an autistic five year old. They have a horrible time socially and how they relate to other les is very skewed... Sometimes even reality is skewed. But gosh yes, they are well known for the concrete thinking... The gray areas totally set them off. My daughter when she was smaller had a lot more issues with it. I had to keep reminding myself that socially she was not her age and I never compared her to how the AVERAGE five year old etc would respond to something.
I have it in text message, that is all. and i am still not completely sure since she only wanted the 300.00 but wanted it a week early.

It was wrong of me to say it is normal for a 5 year old to hit and push in general. I feel in the same situation a child of 5 may have the same behavior, but it is almost certain to happen with an autistic child. My son is very concrete and gray areas are a major issue. He is also very concerned with belongings and space. On of his fixations is "is it mine" and if it is his, its HIS. thats why the blanket is such and issue. its his and he doesnt have it. At preschool he has his table, his chair, his watch, his glue, his weighted blanket ect. he wont use anything that is not his, and nobody can use what is his.

The mother that is watching them now does not want to do it permenently. But she is helping me out because what has happened to me is the reason she is a SAHM and she understands. My boyfriends schedule is changing at the end of the month so i will only need someone 3 days a week for the summer until school starts. This made it easier for my friend to agree until the end of summer at the absolute latest. then we are going to try the afterschool program, but I am concerned that it might not work.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:45 PM
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If you are quiting then you need to pay her what is due for that week! If you are not staying until that due date you Should pay for the week that she watched him. Be glad she is NOT keeping you to the four weeks as she could as "you" are choosing not to stay in care the last four weeks.
Im not really seeing what the problem is if you are quiting and she is only making you pay the 300 dollars which you stated is due? If you are not staying until the 26th? then you should pay the last day of care. I would not trust anyone to pay after they left care as most likely that is a sign they are not going to pay!
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