I have a DCF that is really pushing PTing on their child age 20 months. They claim that the DCB is going on the toilet all day every day at home.

Well here it is a no go. will not go willingly and I will NOT force him. Well right now I tried to see if he would go, nope. So I said ok well then lets see if you are wet and he was. I told him that we need to change him, but now he is refusing to allow me to change him.

he is kicking and screaming in the bathroom in a dirty pull up. I walked away to give him space and to allow him to calm down. I keep going in and out to see if I can change him while typing this and he won't let me.

He will be picked up in about 15 minutes, do I just let him wait for his parents to come and take care of it? I have never had this issue before. I don't want to force myself on the child to change them and he is completely refusing.

Any advice??

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If the child is in a wet pull-up he HAS to be changed...tantrum or no tantrum. Try distracting him...give him a toy...etc. If that doesn't work..you may just have to change anyway. I have a 14 month old that cries tears everytime I change him....but it gets done. He does the samet thing when his parents change him. Good luck!!!!

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I would tell the parents that having a tantrum like that during diaper changes is a sign that he is NOT ready to be potty trained at daycare. In fact, its a sign that he is going to be very reluctant about it and possibly put up a fight and be traumatized if you keep pushing it on him and he is not ready. Tell them if they still want to try at home you may be willing to try in another week or 2. But for now, I personal would just tell them "From what I have observed, he is not 100% ready to be actively potty training at this time"

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I think its hard for parents to realize things are different at daycare, I see posts like this all the time here, Parents "think" their kid is ready,but the providers all know better, yeah 20months probably not quite, but its probably a first child, and we all know that kids go through that phase where they discover the potty, and they are so excited to see their parents excitement, they keep going and going, its not quite as exciting for them at daycare, when I still had my son in daycare at almost 2, he was using the potty all the time at home, and over a xmas break when he was turning 2, I had a week off and stripped him to his bare butt for a few days so he was free without the burden of clothes to go whenever he wanted, by the 3rd day I had him dressed and the rest of the vacation he told me every time he needed to go, and he had only 1 accident, fast forward 6 more days to daycare, he was in a diaper and soaked when I brought him home, we got home that night, and I took the diaper off, put underwear on him, and he didn't have an accident at home, she said he never asked to go, we never really talked about it, but I'm pretty sure she never encouraged it, thinking I was a dumb first time parent thinking my kid was potty trained, now that I do daycare, I can see how distracting it is for kids to take a break to go potty when they are playing with other kids, and I don't think he felt as free to go there, either way, what I saw as a parent was my kid telling me and going potty every time at home, and everyday her probably putting him right in a diaper after I dropped him off. I also ended up leaving my job to stay home 1 month later, and he's never been in a diaper since. I feel sometimes like parents are judged so harshly, but I say again as I've said before, that there is no way they can know how different it is a daycare house from their own home, more kids more distractions, all they see is their own child, and thats all they need to see. I mean I never believed my daycare provider telling me he never asked to go.

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I agree that daycare & home are VERY different. While he may go at home, it may take a while to get him asking at daycare.

I also have the opposite problem. A dcg here that emulates a slightly older girl and hasn't had an accident in two months, (she is just 2), but at home she refuses.

I don't understand the PUSHING that some parents do though, they will go when they go. Don't stress them (and everyone else) out.

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My policy with potty training is that I introduce them at every diaper change- they sit for a bit but I do not consider a child toilet trained until they can independently recognise the need to go and also can pull up/down their own clothing with minimal support. Otherwise it is the parent who is trained to take the child on a regular basis rather than the child being trained.

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I have a two year old that is ready too. She was off for about 3 weeks & I encouraged her mother start her potty training during that time. She didn't & now wants me to start her potty training. He mother is just lazy. Period...

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The kids that fight like that are those who are being pushed WAY. TOO. HARD.

Makes any elimination fraught with fear of disappointment, fear, shame and lots of kids end up all out oppositional to the process as a means to cope with the feelings of being forced to control something they don't even have a means to control at all.

I make it clear during interviews that I do not take families who believe in forceful training. It puts way too much pressure on the kid and it's not good for their bodies to be holding it at that young age. There have been studies done on this, it can literally and permanently damage their kidneys and colons.

To boot 20 months is too young to adequately explain that what's happening at home won't happen there so he can relax and not worry about that for awhile.


If I were you I'd have left the child wet for the parent to deal with and explained their pushing combined with the very young age of the child has created that mess. Forcing a diaper/pull up change at that point you'd undoubtedly make the situation even worse.

I would refuse to participate in further damaging the child and tell them they need to back off or find a new provider.



This is one of my biggest pet peeves as a provider. I'd rather deal with parents that don't pay me rather than a child who is being damaged by pushy "training."

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But you have no idea that they are forcing it, he may only be throwing that fit at daycare and happily going potty at home, you have no idea what the little one is like at home, I always tell the parents, I will take them potty as often as they are willing, but they sometimes are only willing to go at home with mom and dad.

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If a 20 month old is kicking and screaming over a diaper change like that - they are forcing it.

Period.

That's not a normal response in any way shape or form and does indicate desperation for control or just complete and utter confusion/shame/fear.

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Were going to have to agree to disagree, I have a 2 year old, that kicks and screams right now at diaper changes, and both her parents and I are having her go potty, she happily goes potty, but hates a diaper change, you again have no idea if he is doing the same thing at home.............I'm not saying hes not being forced.......I am saying that you do not know, he may only act that way with his provider, not his mom. possibly the provider is trying to push him to hard to go potty, since the parents told her to, so then he's being pushed at daycare, but happily going potty at home, you don't know his home life, so I'm saying you can;t be so quick to judge the parents, when you do not know the whole situation...Period

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Yep, agree to disagree.

I disagree it's normal for a child that old to kick and scream through a diaper change.

Having a child happily comply with going potty when prompted by an adult is moot, that level of resistance with *any* part of "training" process has everything to do with control, conflict and unreadiness.

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Willow......

the reason that I asked if I should let them stay in the bathroom for that 10-15 min until pick up was becuase I wanted the parent to see that their child is refusing to cooperate, which means that the child is NOT ready.

I do agree with everything you said....The only thing is, is that according to the parenrts, the child is fully PT at home. Which could be possible, yet do to the childs reaction yesterday, I am going to say that they are NOT...

I do tell the parents that it is better for a child (especially part timers) to become successful at home for about two weeks before trying here.

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At some point, control has to be mastered. I feel by making it a non issue, and more of a "this is what we do" that is when true training takes place. Consistency is the key to make it happen- I feel this happens when a child can get down a few things like knowing they are wet or pooped, asking about the potty, able to sit on the potty and not be scared, helping to pull down clothes and being able to say they have to go.

I don't know to many adults that pee and poop themselves, so at some point it does and will happen.

I think cost is what pushes some parents, and laziness that doesn't others.

Anyhow happy hump day-

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Not everyone who allows their child to eliminate into a potty instead of a diaper is "forcing" just because its a infant/toddler under any specific age. Yes I don't doubt there may be parents who try to force their little one to eliminate in s potty when the poor xhild has no idea how, or has no bodily awareness , let alone even know that the potty is FOR poop/pee pee.

The reason Im saying this is because those moms like me who beleive in elimination communication often get jusged wrongly and also get accused of "forcing" their child or being " parent trained" when neither of that is true because its not about potty training but teaching bodily awareness ad communication from the very beginning (usually since birth/early infancy) so when it is *IS* time to switch to underwear and when it *IS* time to start getting the child to porposely practice going on his/her own and staying dry for an extended period of time the foundation is already laid.... That child will not only already know how to ask for the potty when he/she goes , but that child will feel COMFORTABLE enough with their body to RELEASE their bowels/bladder all the way and going IN the potty. Most cases as a aide affect the child ends up preferring the potty over diapers. It is a GENTLE method . A lot of people say its about communication but personally I think its a combination of gentle conditioning and teaching the child to communicate as WE communicate to them too. I did this with my son and by a year of age he was asking to use the potty several times a day (it was in the bathroom out of sight). If it was within sight, he would crawl to it and want me to sit him on it since he wasn't able to climb on/walk yet.
I feel doing day are has stopped him from going any further and it transitioning into potty training because there are too many distractions for him when there are so many toys and another 16month old and 9month old here that I'm busy with. MY child was in a position where he could have been potty trained by now, not because I was forcing him but because he was taught bosily awareness and how to sign toilet & communicate with me from early infancy. But my home is almost like as if he goes to daycare himself every day with having a mom who does daycare is as distracted as a provider enough to be unable to take him as often as he would need or he is too distracted to bother asking to be taken any more. All because his environment is like he is IN daycare himself.
Last year I worked outside the home for three weeks and took him to another provider . This was wen he was doing grwat asking to go on the potty and everything at home. He had not pooped in his diaper in about 5months+ (was pooping in the potty) . Well she teied offering the potty and he acted scared and would cry . He refused . Until the last day . When I picked him up that day, he also signed toilet to me wanting to go, right in front of her! So I let her watch as I took him and he went. I have to back up the PP who said it doesn't automaticly mean the child is being forced at home. They may not be comfortable letting anyone take them, or going in front of anyone but certain people. I once knew a person who's son refused to go potty unless their mother took them.
If anything its that the CHILD is either used to being in control of mom&dad and knows they get away with getting their own way (not having to sit on potty) after behaving like tht throwing a fit/crying .
Or they are testing you. I don't see anything wrong with not allowing an older child to get up from the potty if YOU know they have to go and THEY know they have to go. And if they just simply don't want to go and would rather use the diaper. I had a 23month old who was almost completely PT and he didn't want to sit . I said too bad you have to sit because I know you have to go. He started kicking &crying&throwing a fit. I counted in my head how many seconds it took for him to go deapite his protesting. Guess what, it took 19 seconds ! When he felt and saw that he was going and I didnt give in to his tantrum, he gave up the crying like a lifht switch and shouted Pee pee ad was so proud of himself. We clapped and cheered. I gave him a treat. He was not traumatized ! Infact my making him sit whether he wanted to or not stopped any further attempts to resist and with all those successes he felt proud ! Also teaching kids to obey and follow directions whether they want to or not helps them pottytrain easier too.

If the child doesn't think he/she is queen almighty of the household and ruler of the parents, he/she is not going to throw a tantrum or br kicking&resisting when they need to sit on the potty or get a diaper change. That's why I say the child very likely knows he will get his way or is used to getting their way when behaving like that.
However, if a daycare kid faught diaper changes that bad I would not feel comfortable forcing a diaper change on them. And if it didnt stop I would have to terminate care since it obviously would be something keeping me from being able to properly care for them. But I do feel the child should not be acting like yhat in the first place unless they do have a true fear of something bad happening . But Its not my place to judge the parent and say it must automaticly mean the parents are forcing anything on them.
If my DD starts theowing a fit because she doesnt want to eat her broccoli I know its because I as a parent made the mistake of not introducing it early enough or often enough in the late infancy/early toddler periods to help her aquare a taste and/or be consistent offering and making her sit their until she eats it. Because I made the mistake of allowing her to eat something alternative and now we are starting from square 1 with healthier eating habits. And she thinks all this ruckus will get me to give her something different because its a change and shes testing me, because we used to give in to her antics before.
Same principal with everything else.
My 15month old would probably resist the potty too, had he never been taught the gentle way from infancy that its a safe place he can trust to eliminate, besides just his diaper. So he goes every single time the potty is offered IF he has to go. If anything, teaching him to be comfortable pottying early on and emtying his bladder&bowels when he has to go is healthier than those kids who are forced to wear diapers for 2yrs straight ad then expected to suddenly start learning to eliminate elsewhere reaulting in problems with with-holding and getting constipated or urinary tract infections as a tesult of the child holding &holding because they wait for the diaper to go back on. All because its harder to atop playing to make a run to the reatroom, than a child who learns earlier and learns that the faster they get it OUT &in the potty, the faster they get to go back to playing again .

So that's my perspective and why I feel kids are taught way too late nowadays . And why its not harmful to teach them this skill earlier *IF DONE RIGHT*
All the talk of kids being "damaged" comes from the old days of them being forced and bad methods being used. Nothing to do with the age of the child.

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Holiday - I have no idea what elimination communication or broccoli has to do with a near two year old kicking and screaming not letting their regular daycare provider change their soiled diaper.


Edited - off topic.

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You could be right. And, you could be wrong.

I have seen children throw huge, screaming, crying fits when being changed by their parent here, but would never dream of doing that with me. These are 2 year olds who are not even potty training, so it has absolutley nothing to do with being forced to train. It is simply something they can "boss" their parents around with and they do it. SO, it could simply be that this child is showing the provider who's boss, and the kid thinks he's the boss!

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yes, i know my 2 yr old who started getting reaaly upset about diaper changing, had nothing to do with her potty training, and everything to do with having to stop what she was doing, power struggling me, that only lasted 2 days though and its over now. And she only stated there was one kicking screaming fit, not that it happened everytime, and to just leave the kid in the dirty diaper screaming to prove a point to the parents I disagree with, the provider could have been very frustrated also, which lead to more of a battle.

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the DCK did have a horrible fit every time I took them to the toilet. THis was the very first day at my house that they even tried and I am not one to ever force a child to do anything.

In the morning during daycare, when I told the child it was time to use the potty, as soon as I said that, the child said no and had a melt down. I was able to talk them down and with some coaching get them into the bathroom to at least let me change them. The child did have one successful trip to the toilet, but that was only because I think the DCK was trying to delay nap time. They did not pee or poo while on it, just was able to get them to sit.

DCM called in during nap time to see how things were going with PTing here. I told her not too well, that DCK does not want to. DCM was in disbelief that her child was acting out like this here with the PTing, because at home they always went when asked.

I did not have time to get detailed about the OP, because I was looking for advice on what to do with the child. There was no way I was going to power struggle the child in any way. I was not at all frustrated, in fact, I told dck I am going to walk away now and when you are done screaming, I will come change you, but that only resulted in the child screaming and kicking even more.

I feel I did the right thing and the DCM got to see what I was talking about. Before DCM left, I asked her to work on it at home for another good solid week before I would try to do it here again. The child is very part time, so it seems that working on it at home first and mastering more of the skills is going to be necessary....

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