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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>4 Year Old Doesn't Want To Listen
lilmonkeys 10:40 AM 06-08-2016
I have a 4 year old that almost refuses to follow all directions. he had been coming here for 7 months. for about the past 5 months he seems to ignore all forms of direction and rules I give him. he is gone 1 day out of the week and that one day he is gone all the other kids listen and daycare is calm etc. then when he is here its complete chaos all day. I like his parents so I try to work with them a lot but it's starting to get very frustrating. is it OK to charge more for a difficult child as such, or better to just provide a term notice.
suggestions please. thank you
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KiwiKids 11:01 AM 06-08-2016
I always try and work with parents first and then if a month later we don't have significant improvement I will term. Especially when the group dynamic is affected so badly. It has only happened twice in my 11 years but each time it was the right decision.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:58 AM 06-08-2016
Originally Posted by KiwiKids:
I always try and work with parents first and then if a month later we don't have significant improvement I will term. Especially when the group dynamic is affected so badly. It has only happened twice in my 11 years but each time it was the right decision.
If you can't get it under control then you can either term or you can cope until he leaves. I have tried to "make it work" with families in the past because I liked the parents but I ultimately end up terming because dealing with that for over 1-1.5 years wears you out.

I understand how exhausting it is. I have a new child (also a 4yo boy) who is very much so like this but there isn't an option of not listening, really. You can either listen or you can go sit at the table and work on an activity by yourself. If you won't budge, then I'll lead you by hand. If we're being defiant or rude then we don't get to do the REALLY SUPER COOL fun things the other kids are doing with me. That's so sad...
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Ariana 12:14 PM 06-08-2016
Does he have a hearing problem? I am assuming you are giving comsequences for not listening but he is just not complying? I have never had a child not comply through consequences that were followed through consistantly.

What have you tried? Maybe we can help?
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Thriftylady 09:54 AM 06-09-2016
I have this child, he is now 5. I have had him since Jan. I have begged the parents to get his vision and hearing checked and get an assessment but they won't. I think with mine it is a processing problem. I was asking him to repeat what I just said, he can NEVER do it. It is like the words just go in one ear and out the other and never touch his brain. It is beyond frustrating for me, but I don't think it is his fault.
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adnilwis 11:51 AM 06-09-2016
Originally Posted by lilmonkeys:
I have a 4 year old that almost refuses to follow all directions. he had been coming here for 7 months. for about the past 5 months he seems to ignore all forms of direction and rules I give him. he is gone 1 day out of the week and that one day he is gone all the other kids listen and daycare is calm etc. then when he is here its complete chaos all day. I like his parents so I try to work with them a lot but it's starting to get very frustrating. is it OK to charge more for a difficult child as such, or better to just provide a term notice.
suggestions please. thank you
Wow we must watch the same child. I've watched him 8 months and have him until he goes to 4k September 1st. He refuses to listen and I've mentioned it to dad and dad said maybe I just need to yell more. He's supposedly super well behaved at home but is an only child. If I tell him to do something he yells no at me and then sometimes spits at me and laughs at me when I tell him what he's doing is wrong. He also tries to get my 3 yo son to misbehave with him. I know he loses privileges at home when he isn't good here. I'm just trying to wait it out. I do give consequences and usually that results in him getting mad and throwing something. I don't know what else to do. I physically remove him from an area when he isn't listening and he comes right back misbehaving.
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AmyKidsCo 12:59 PM 06-09-2016
What kind of directions is he refusing? Can you give him choices instead of commands? For instance, "Do you want to wash up for breakfast now or in 2 minutes?" "Do you want to play quietly in the play room or yell in the hallway?"

Some kids (and adults, like me!) don't like being told what to do but will respond when given choices.
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adnilwis 01:10 PM 06-09-2016
Typical stuff like not cleaning up toys is a big one. But other ones are if he's hurting someone and I tell him to stop or he throwing toys against my wall. He likes to pretend he's in a cave but I don't like him turning the lights off and on so often so I tell him before getting out the tent that he can play with it nicely with the lights on or I'll put it away. Not even two minutes into playing he will turn the lights off. He just doesn't ever take me serious and his dad says he has a hard time with that at home too.
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AmyKidsCo 01:20 PM 06-09-2016
Originally Posted by adnilwis:
Typical stuff like not cleaning up toys is a big one. But other ones are if he's hurting someone and I tell him to stop or he throwing toys against my wall. He likes to pretend he's in a cave but I don't like him turning the lights off and on so often so I tell him before getting out the tent that he can play with it nicely with the lights on or I'll put it away. Not even two minutes into playing he will turn the lights off. He just doesn't ever take me serious and his dad says he has a hard time with that at home too.
Lovely.

What about "Do you want to clean up the blocks or the books?" Or find something he does clean up and put him in charge of that "because you clean up the ______ SO well!" I also make a game of it - can you clean up the _______ before I count to 10? Then I count silly - fast, slow, backwards, half numbers, etc.

I have wool balls for throwing inside so anytime other toys are thrown I redirect them to the balls.

Turning my lights off is a BIG no-no. The tent idea is great - "You can play with the tent as long as there are no problems." When the lights go off it's a problem: "Oh dear, the lights are off. That's a problem. What a bummer." (as you're putting away the tent.)
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adnilwis 01:26 PM 06-09-2016
Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo:
Lovely.

What about "Do you want to clean up the blocks or the books?" Or find something he does clean up and put him in charge of that "because you clean up the ______ SO well!"
This wouldn't work because then he gets upset someone else is picking up _____ and he's not.


Turning my lights off is a BIG no-no. The tent idea is great - "You can play with the tent as long as there are no problems." When the lights go off it's a problem: "Oh dear, the lights are off. That's a problem. What a bummer." (as you're putting away the tent.)
I do say it's so sad we lost the tent because the lights got turned off. Doesn't phase him one bit. He just laughs at me. Sometimes I give him multiple chances at it too. Nope. Doesn't care. He will throw balls against the wall too. Once I sent him outside to scream since he was doing it inside and he kicked the screen door and ripped the screen
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AmyKidsCo 01:30 PM 06-09-2016
Originally Posted by adnilwis:
I do say it's so sad we lost the tent because the lights got turned off. Doesn't phase him one bit. He just laughs at me. Sometimes I give him multiple chances at it too. Nope. Doesn't care. He will throw balls against the wall too. Once I sent him outside to scream since he was doing it inside and he kicked the screen door and ripped the screen


Maybe it's time to start interviewing - it sounds like he's not a good fit for your program.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 03:36 PM 06-09-2016
Originally Posted by adnilwis:
I do say it's so sad we lost the tent because the lights got turned off. Doesn't phase him one bit. He just laughs at me. Sometimes I give him multiple chances at it too. Nope. Doesn't care. He will throw balls against the wall too. Once I sent him outside to scream since he was doing it inside and he kicked the screen door and ripped the screen
You're a patient woman.
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daycarediva 03:11 AM 06-10-2016
Oh HECK NO. His parents would have paid to have my door fixed.

Here is what I would do during the termination period. ()Tell him beforehand what the expectations are. If he disobeys ONCE there are NO chances. He immediately goes to sit out and then he does an activity (as boring as possible) of MY choosing.
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Blackcat31 06:24 AM 06-10-2016
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Oh HECK NO. His parents would have paid to have my door fixed.

Here is what I would do during the termination period. ()Tell him beforehand what the expectations are. If he disobeys ONCE there are NO chances. He immediately goes to sit out and then he does an activity (as boring as possible) of MY choosing.
I agree! I think this child simply needs a bit more guidance as to how he is expected to behave.... and he needs FIRM and authoritative guidance more so than he needs choices and suggestions.

Choices are for kids who have a tough time deciding between good/bad behavior....it sounds like this one KNOWS the difference but enjoys the results of choosing the negative behavior/choice.
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Blackcat31 06:25 AM 06-10-2016
Originally Posted by lilmonkeys:
I have a 4 year old that almost refuses to follow all directions. he had been coming here for 7 months. for about the past 5 months he seems to ignore all forms of direction and rules I give him. he is gone 1 day out of the week and that one day he is gone all the other kids listen and daycare is calm etc. then when he is here its complete chaos all day. I like his parents so I try to work with them a lot but it's starting to get very frustrating. is it OK to charge more for a difficult child as such, or better to just provide a term notice.
suggestions please. thank you
I'm not understanding how more money has anything to do with managing this child's behavior? Unless you are using it to hire a second set of hands or an assistant to help out when he is in care.
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Ariana 07:25 AM 06-10-2016
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Oh HECK NO. His parents would have paid to have my door fixed.

Here is what I would do during the termination period. ()Tell him beforehand what the expectations are. If he disobeys ONCE there are NO chances. He immediately goes to sit out and then he does an activity (as boring as possible) of MY choosing.
This! It sounds to me like this behavior is just going unchecked because he has worn everybody out. This kid would be sitting out a LOT! I might even be putting him to bed early.
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Unregistered 11:12 AM 06-10-2016
I couldn't keep this child around! You are a saint!

If my firmness, no dealing with craziness, setting expectations, monitoring carefully, observing triggers, consistent consequences, making sure I had a good bond with him and he had positive interactions with me (not just negative attention) FIRMNESS again, didn't work I'd have to say goodbye!

I'm super fun, silly, love to have great engaging activities for the kids, interact lovingly and build a positive relationship with each child but I don't put up with rude and aggressive behavior.

I'm always looking to learn about new positive behavior management techniques, etc. I understand all kids have their moments and do crazy kid stuff but if they are not open to teachable moments, are rude, spitting, out of control they have to become someone else's problem!
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adnilwis 11:25 AM 06-10-2016
Originally Posted by Ariana:
This! It sounds to me like this behavior is just going unchecked because he has worn everybody out. This kid would be sitting out a LOT! I might even be putting him to bed early.
I try to have him sit out then he screams at me and runs over by what we are doing and pushes everyone out of his way so he can join in. He usually goes to bed by 7 because he refuses to lay down and nap most days too.

I don't have a lot of places to put him where he won't get right back up other than a high chair which I have done. Today he chose not to do his art project, he sat with the paintbrush in his hand for a good 10 minutes. I told him I'd give him 2 more minutes to paint or he wasn't doing it. Still didnt. I told him he was done , took the brush and threw his paper away, huge meltdown for at least 20 minutes because he wanted to do it. Ugh!

Choice method also didn't work today. I told him he could tell me what he wanted out of the basement or he could play with what was already out. He said no and kept opening the door (with child safety knob on it) trying to get it out himself then went and wrecked the block towers the younger ones were playing with and threw blocks at them. Finally he did tell me what he wanted but just frustrates me to no end!
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childcaremom 11:30 AM 06-10-2016
Dear dcps,

Here is my 2 weeks notice. Dcb has outgrown my care. I wish you the best.

Your worn out provider


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adnilwis 11:47 AM 06-10-2016
I am torn between telling his parents I'm done or just waiting it out but I like his parents and I know his grandma who I worked with at the daycare center I worked at before starting inhome. Just don't want any bad feelings or relationships if I do term,
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hgonzalez 12:04 PM 06-10-2016
I could have written this. I have 2 more days with the one here, and I can barely take it any more. I spent a few minutes talking to Mom about his behavior at pick up time. She tried to get him to go to the car with her and he ran all over my front yard not listening to her and then had the nerve to come back up to my door and window and press his face up against it and bang on it.
And she doesn't know what behaviors I am talking about....get a CLUE woman!
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AmyKidsCo 09:13 AM 06-13-2016
Originally Posted by lilmonkeys:
I have a 4 year old that almost refuses to follow all directions. he had been coming here for 7 months. for about the past 5 months he seems to ignore all forms of direction and rules I give him. he is gone 1 day out of the week and that one day he is gone all the other kids listen and daycare is calm etc. then when he is here its complete chaos all day. I like his parents so I try to work with them a lot but it's starting to get very frustrating. is it OK to charge more for a difficult child as such, or better to just provide a term notice.
suggestions please. thank you
I believe Tom Copeland says that as long as you don't discriminate illegally (gender, special needs, etc) you can charge different families different amounts. The sticky thing is if the family discovers that you're charging them more and asks why. They may not appreciate "Because your child is a PITB."
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Unregistered 10:36 AM 06-13-2016
I do have a PITB surcharge
They will never know because no two families have the same rate due to different hours and number of days. It's only a couple of $$ but it makes me instead of
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