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BBurris1 09:44 AM 01-14-2016
I am a new provider and only have 1 dcg (2 years old) and my son (16 months old).
DCG is very challenging for me.
1. We started off with constant screaming, crying and tantrums about EVERYTHING. I figured it was because she was in a new place. She was also VERY mean to my son. She would hit, kick, pinch, push... every time she thought I wasn't looking. I had to bring DS out of the toy room every time I had to leave to prepare food, use the bathroom, etc. Both of these behaviors have subsided a little over the 7 weeks she's been here, but still occur frequently.

2. DCG will not follow the rules AT ALL! I remind her over and over and over. I give her 2 minute time-outs every time she breaks a rule. It restarts when she gets up before its over, so most end up being closer to 10 minutes! Then she gets up and goes right back to whatever she was doing! I've tried praising her for doing things right, but that made no difference either. My least favorite of the rule breaking is that my DS will do something (for example, jump on the couch) and while I'm telling him that it is not okay, DCG will drop what she's doing and run to the couch in order to jump on it too!!

3. She has very limited vocabulary, so I've been trying to work with her, but she won't even try. She just whimpers and whines. When she does this at drop off or pick up, her mom just tries to guess what she wants until she gets it right. I tell her to use her words because I don't understand crying. This usually results in an all-out tantrum.

4. She's destructive too. I've watched her purposely tear the cover off 3 board books. I had to remove them from the daycare area! This is unfair to DS and any other children that sign up. I let my DS play alone in his bedroom in the afternoon just so he can "read" his books. She's also broken a couple of other small toys and tried to break others.

5. She uses "potty" and "cup" to try and get attention. Most commonly, she decides she's done pushing her food around and gets up from the table so I send her back to the toy room. There is only a gate separating that and the table, so she stands at the gate while my DS continues to eat. She gets tired of it and cries "Potty! Potty! Potty!" until I take her. I don't want to make her wait if she actually has to go, but I am not comfortable leaving DS alone while he eats. The same goes for wanting a drink. If anyone else gets a drink, she whines "cup! Cup! Cup!" until its handed to her. If I make her wait, she has a meltdown. Even if its only a wait to refill the cup!

6. She scolds DS for everything. He was sitting in his high chair the other day staring into space (it was almost nap time) and she started telling him off. I don't want to tell her not to tell him "no" because there are times its appropriate. I usually tell her "DCG, worry about yourself." but it makes no difference.

7. DCG will not play alone. My husband works second shift, so when he gets up, he takes DS downstairs to spend time together. During that time, I have to prepare lunch. She used to sit on the couch and do absolutely nothing. I've stopped allowing her on the couch due to repeated jumping on it and a tendencies to take her clothes off and pee. Now, she sits in a corner and builds a wall of toys around herself, then just tugs on her hair.

8. I've noticed she is SLIGHTLY better behaved when she gets enough sleep, but that is infrequent. She has absolutely no structure or schedule at home. I've asked her mom what rules are and what discipline is like at home. Her responses are always either "yeah... We're working on that..." or "Well, I guess sometimes we give her a little pat on the butt." If I question anything, DCM acts like I'm just being really nosy. Half the time she changes the subject without answering!

9. DCG has been sick 5 of the 7 weeks she's been enrolled too. She was coughing so hard she threw up 2 days in a row and was sent home. Her nose runs like a faucet. I don't mind a little runny nose. I think that's expected with the cold winter weather. But now my DS and I both have runny noses to the point where he wakes up unable to breathe 2-3 times a night. I can't send her home 4 out of 5 days, but its unfair to my family for her to get us sick this often.

The whole situation is grating on every nerve. I want to term. Badly. But I can't because I won't be able to pay the bills without the income from caring for her. So, until I get a few more kids signed up, I need to keep watching her. Do you have any advice to make the situation more bearable?
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Blackcat31 10:25 AM 01-14-2016
Originally Posted by BBurris1:
I am a new provider and only have 1 dcg (2 years old) and my son (16 months old).
DCG is very challenging for me.
1. We started off with constant screaming, crying and tantrums about EVERYTHING. I figured it was because she was in a new place. She was also VERY mean to my son. She would hit, kick, pinch, push... every time she thought I wasn't looking. I had to bring DS out of the toy room every time I had to leave to prepare food, use the bathroom, etc. Both of these behaviors have subsided a little over the 7 weeks she's been here, but still occur frequently.

2. DCG will not follow the rules AT ALL! I remind her over and over and over. I give her 2 minute time-outs every time she breaks a rule. It restarts when she gets up before its over, so most end up being closer to 10 minutes! Then she gets up and goes right back to whatever she was doing! I've tried praising her for doing things right, but that made no difference either. My least favorite of the rule breaking is that my DS will do something (for example, jump on the couch) and while I'm telling him that it is not okay, DCG will drop what she's doing and run to the couch in order to jump on it too!!

3. She has very limited vocabulary, so I've been trying to work with her, but she won't even try. She just whimpers and whines. When she does this at drop off or pick up, her mom just tries to guess what she wants until she gets it right. I tell her to use her words because I don't understand crying. This usually results in an all-out tantrum.

4. She's destructive too. I've watched her purposely tear the cover off 3 board books. I had to remove them from the daycare area! This is unfair to DS and any other children that sign up. I let my DS play alone in his bedroom in the afternoon just so he can "read" his books. She's also broken a couple of other small toys and tried to break others.

5. She uses "potty" and "cup" to try and get attention. Most commonly, she decides she's done pushing her food around and gets up from the table so I send her back to the toy room. There is only a gate separating that and the table, so she stands at the gate while my DS continues to eat. She gets tired of it and cries "Potty! Potty! Potty!" until I take her. I don't want to make her wait if she actually has to go, but I am not comfortable leaving DS alone while he eats. The same goes for wanting a drink. If anyone else gets a drink, she whines "cup! Cup! Cup!" until its handed to her. If I make her wait, she has a meltdown. Even if its only a wait to refill the cup!

6. She scolds DS for everything. He was sitting in his high chair the other day staring into space (it was almost nap time) and she started telling him off. I don't want to tell her not to tell him "no" because there are times its appropriate. I usually tell her "DCG, worry about yourself." but it makes no difference.

7. DCG will not play alone. My husband works second shift, so when he gets up, he takes DS downstairs to spend time together. During that time, I have to prepare lunch. She used to sit on the couch and do absolutely nothing. I've stopped allowing her on the couch due to repeated jumping on it and a tendencies to take her clothes off and pee. Now, she sits in a corner and builds a wall of toys around herself, then just tugs on her hair.

8. I've noticed she is SLIGHTLY better behaved when she gets enough sleep, but that is infrequent. She has absolutely no structure or schedule at home. I've asked her mom what rules are and what discipline is like at home. Her responses are always either "yeah... We're working on that..." or "Well, I guess sometimes we give her a little pat on the butt." If I question anything, DCM acts like I'm just being really nosy. Half the time she changes the subject without answering!

9. DCG has been sick 5 of the 7 weeks she's been enrolled too. She was coughing so hard she threw up 2 days in a row and was sent home. Her nose runs like a faucet. I don't mind a little runny nose. I think that's expected with the cold winter weather. But now my DS and I both have runny noses to the point where he wakes up unable to breathe 2-3 times a night. I can't send her home 4 out of 5 days, but its unfair to my family for her to get us sick this often.

The whole situation is grating on every nerve. I want to term. Badly. But I can't because I won't be able to pay the bills without the income from caring for her. So, until I get a few more kids signed up, I need to keep watching her. Do you have any advice to make the situation more bearable?
I would go back to the basics.

A few toys (soft so she cannot throw) and durable (so she cannot break them).

FIRST offense of anything physical nets her alone play.

For meal times, you need to have her use the potty BEFORE sitting down. Once she leaves the table and starts to fuss about the potty, tell her no. You KNOW she does not have to go.

The cup thing....ignore. Hand it to her when you are ready to give it to her. You can shush her or say something like "Wait." If she continues to screech....remove her from the table.

She needs to have some natural (and provider induced) consequences. It appears that on some occasions that even you are giving into her just to avoid bigger meltdown. All that teaches her is that her methods of gaining attention (or whatever else she is looking for) is working.

Stop giving her books she can destroy. Cloth books only.
Just because a child is a certain age it doesn't automatically mean she HAS to have specific toys etc... If she cannot manage books without ripping them then she needs to have soft cloth books only.

Keep advertising....... There is a severe shortage of infant/toddler spaces in my area of the state (I am in MN too) so finding a replacement may be easy. But I would absolutely replace.
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Josiegirl 10:26 AM 01-14-2016
She sounds like a handful. If she's being mean to your ds I'd place her on a blanket in your sight with a couple toys to play with. When she's good she can get up and play again. Several providers here use that and it's worked for me. Most kids do not want to be away from their friends for too long.

What does she like to do most? Is she a child who enjoys art more, or sensory play, reading books, puzzles, blocks? Try to find what she enjoys the most and build from there. Try to find different things for them to do together; the novelty of the activity might distract her. Does she like music and dancing? Whenever we're having an off day, I'll put on their favorite jazzy music, they get out their dress-up clothes and boogie away their anger. Plus I've found another thing that helps prevent altercations when I sense kids are heading that way, is we start to get silly here. I'll crawl around the corner and surprise them or say 'I'm a great big bear and I go quack!' They catch on pretty quick and my dcks LOVE being silly! This time of year is hard because outdoor time is limited. They need it as much as we do.

As far as dcg coming in sick all the time, only you can determine how sick you want to deal with. Sometimes it's a fine line when they've just got runny noses. Keep dcm up on your illness policies and remind her often if you need to.

Good luck and advertise!!!!!
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Laurel 10:40 AM 01-14-2016
It sounds like you should term as the hitting and coming sick are out of the ordinary but I know you want ideas until you can so here are things I would try.

-Make as few rules to follow as possible. Is it possible you have too many rules for a 2 year old? (is she an early 2 or late 2?). Just the basics like we don't hit, we don't destroy toys, etc.

-Give her extra naps if need be. If you think sleep would improve her disposition let her sleep more. You can afford to do it because you only have 2 at the moment and why not? It would be better than the behavior. I would try to be consistent with the times if possible. If she arrives 'in a mood' tell her that she must be tired because children who aren't tired don't do _______(fill in the blank). Try to time it so she will still sleep at your scheduled naptime. You can even let her take a short nap say in the morning and then wake her up after an hour. My provider friend told me to do that once and I didn't think it would work but it did. The child was a lot better and still napped at nap time.

-It took me a few years to get rid of my couch in the room and I just put in a chair for me that was wide and would fit me and one child. Children can sit on the floor. Mine was a family room and I had a couch in the living room for my family. I only used the family room for daycare. So you may not have that option. I also put a little molded plastic slide/climber in the room so when they needed some large muscle inside it was there.

-For sickness, I would give her orange juice every day. I used to serve o.j. every morning for breakfast and I swear my daycare kids were sick less than other daycare kids. Really. You can't beat vitamin C.

-If time out isn't working for this particular child, try something else. I had that happen with one child in 20 years of doing childcare. She was my granddaughter so I wasn't going to term but what I did was when she needed a time out was to sit her at the dining room table and give her a coloring book and crayons. Some might say it is a reward but I was desperate, it worked, and today she is a happy well adjusted straight A student and quite talented at art, btw. Sometimes you have to do what works and not what the 'experts' say.

-If she tries to break toys, she loses the toy and gets an unbreakable one, something like wooden blocks, every single time. "Oh you can't have that as I see you are being rough with it, here are the blocks." Spread out a little rug or something to define her space and put the blocks there. She goes there with a toy of your choice until she gets tired of trying to break toys.
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Ariana 10:45 AM 01-14-2016
I agree with what Blackcat has said. She has learned to crave and get off on negative behavior which is probably the worst behavior to deal with. She really needs to know you are THE BOSS. Don't be afraid to be extremely assertive with her and don't back down from consequences or give in.

I once had a 2 yr old DCG who hit my daughter her first week with me. I scared the bejeebus out of her the first time she did it. I "grabbed" her by the shoulders and in a VERY stern voice (not yelling) said "do not EVER hit her again....do you hear me"? She never hit after that, even though she continued it at home. I think kids are just really missing that assertive angry emotion from their parents. There is nothing wrong with being mad and being super firm with kids who need it. I also had a DCB recently kick my oldest daughter in the stomach, he is 6. I had the same reaction, he cried and got very upset and he never did it again. I take physical violence VERY seriously.
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Laurel 11:08 AM 01-14-2016
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I agree with what Blackcat has said. She has learned to crave and get off on negative behavior which is probably the worst behavior to deal with. She really needs to know you are THE BOSS. Don't be afraid to be extremely assertive with her and don't back down from consequences or give in.

I once had a 2 yr old DCG who hit my daughter her first week with me. I scared the bejeebus out of her the first time she did it. I "grabbed" her by the shoulders and in a VERY stern voice (not yelling) said "do not EVER hit her again....do you hear me"? She never hit after that, even though she continued it at home. I think kids are just really missing that assertive angry emotion from their parents. There is nothing wrong with being mad and being super firm with kids who need it. I also had a DCB recently kick my oldest daughter in the stomach, he is 6. I had the same reaction, he cried and got very upset and he never did it again. I take physical violence VERY seriously.


I agree. I have done that a few times as well.

I think my daughter is 'too soft' on my grandson and I watch him after daycare. I pick him up about 3. The other day I used a stern voice and he actually said "Grandma, you need to say you're sorry." Wow did THAT piss me off! I gave him the lecture of his life letting him know that he is the child and I am the adult and he doesn't get to tell grandma to apologize. Just so no one thinks I don't believe in never apologizing to children, I do if warranted, but not for routine things like he pulled.

For violence and direct defiance, it is needed sometimes I agree.

I have to mention one thing even though this is getting long. I worked in a school once and it was my 1st week there. I was with another teacher or two supervising the lunchroom where multiple ages were for some reason...can't remember. It wasn't lunch. Maybe after school group? Anyway, this one about 4th or 5th grader was directly defiant to me and I was soooo angry and I just couldn't let it pass and let this child do this. I knew I couldn't touch him and everyone was watching. Plus it is my first week. I didn't want to get fired. So I moved forward and he moved backwards until he was up against the wall. I put one hand on the wall on each side of him and looked him right in the eyes and said "Don't you ever talk to me like that again. Do you understand?" I was a little scared being so new that someone might say something to me but they didn't. Not a word. He never talked to me like that again.

Ok, one more. I was subbing for a receptionist at a high school once. This snobby jock looking student walked up to my desk...my first day there. I said "May I help you?" He actually said very snottily "Isn't that what you're here for?"
I was GREAT. Very calmly I said "Since you talked to me that way, no, I will not help you but I will get someone to help you. I got up and started walking to the principal's office and said "Would you like me to get Mr. Baker to assist you?" He just walked away. Oh that was a great moment. I did call my husband and ask him to come up and follow me home after work because he was a big football player type and I was a little scared that he might retaliate but he didn't.

P.S. And had that principal not introduced himself and showed me where his office was about a half hour before this happened I wouldn't have even known his name.
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rosieteddy 10:17 AM 01-15-2016
Laurel we are so much alike......I really do think that children need firm rules.If this child was hurting another (mine no less) they would be definitely taken away from group.
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Laurel 11:39 AM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by rosieteddy:
Laurel we are so much alike......I really do think that children need firm rules.If this child was hurting another (mine no less) they would be definitely taken away from group.

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Blackcat31 12:23 PM 01-15-2016
I Laurel too! She's a Judge Judy fan!
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Laurel 08:37 PM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I Laurel too! She's a Judge Judy fan!

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Josiegirl 04:28 AM 01-16-2016
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I agree with what Blackcat has said. She has learned to crave and get off on negative behavior which is probably the worst behavior to deal with. She really needs to know you are THE BOSS. Don't be afraid to be extremely assertive with her and don't back down from consequences or give in.

I once had a 2 yr old DCG who hit my daughter her first week with me. I scared the bejeebus out of her the first time she did it. I "grabbed" her by the shoulders and in a VERY stern voice (not yelling) said "do not EVER hit her again....do you hear me"? She never hit after that, even though she continued it at home. I think kids are just really missing that assertive angry emotion from their parents. There is nothing wrong with being mad and being super firm with kids who need it. I also had a DCB recently kick my oldest daughter in the stomach, he is 6. I had the same reaction, he cried and got very upset and he never did it again. I take physical violence VERY seriously.
Ok, I have a question about that reaction of grabbing her shoulders. I remember in another thread posted it was discussed about how you can't physically touch a child like that. Or did I misunderstand??? Maybe BC can help me understand cause I know she was involved with that convo. And I totally would have handled it the same way because I think kids are led to believe they can get away with things too easily and wagging our fingers while saying 'nono we mustn't do that' does nothing. Well not exactly that way but hope YKWIM. I just need further understanding.
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Blackcat31 07:53 AM 01-16-2016
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Ok, I have a question about that reaction of grabbing her shoulders. I remember in another thread posted it was discussed about how you can't physically touch a child like that. Or did I misunderstand??? Maybe BC can help me understand cause I know she was involved with that convo. And I totally would have handled it the same way because I think kids are led to believe they can get away with things too easily and wagging our fingers while saying 'nono we mustn't do that' does nothing. Well not exactly that way but hope YKWIM. I just need further understanding.
The difference TO ME between the two are that physically touching a child to have them turn and face me is completely different in engaging in a back and forth physical power struggle.

Ariana said "grabbed"
She put the word in quotes which again TO ME means she is trying to express that word a bit differently.....(I really have no idea how to explain in words without tone what I am trying to say )

I pushed her
I "pushed" her

TO ME that ^ means two different things ....

In the other thread the provider was continuing to physically make the child stay in time out and/or go to time out.

In Ariana's statement I took her situation as "grabbing" the child's shoulders so the child would face her so she could speak directly and sternly to her.

The child was not resisting or struggling in return.
Nor was she out of control/screaming etc.

I think that was stern, assertive and authorative behavior.

Whereas struggling physically to keep an out of control, screaming child in one spot REPEATEDLY is basically just chaos and more of a physical battle for control.

^^That type of engagment with a child is not okay in my opinion.

Others may agree/disagree. I am sharing MY perspective and how/why I see the two scenarios differently.

.......hopefully makes sense....
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Josiegirl 10:22 AM 01-16-2016
Ok Thanks BC! I do what the PP does too and have done it while angry so didn't know if it made a difference or not but was hoping it was ok. Now that you've explained it better to me I do understand the difference. I mean, sometimes you *do* need to 'grab'. There's always a fine line we walk every day; so much is left to individual interpretation, AND as with any method of using words versus seeing direct actions IRL, it's really difficult to 'read' the situation.
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BBurris1 06:53 AM 01-18-2016
Thank you everyone for your input!
Some of the things you mentioned I have already tried, but many things I hadn't thought of. I will continue to work with DCG and hope things get better!
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Ariana 09:05 AM 01-18-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The difference TO ME between the two are that physically touching a child to have them turn and face me is completely different in engaging in a back and forth physical power struggle.

Ariana said "grabbed"
She put the word in quotes which again TO ME means she is trying to express that word a bit differently.....(I really have no idea how to explain in words without tone what I am trying to say )

I pushed her
I "pushed" her

TO ME that ^ means two different things ....

In the other thread the provider was continuing to physically make the child stay in time out and/or go to time out.

In Ariana's statement I took her situation as "grabbing" the child's shoulders so the child would face her so she could speak directly and sternly to her.

The child was not resisting or struggling in return.
Nor was she out of control/screaming etc.

I think that was stern, assertive and authorative behavior.

Whereas struggling physically to keep an out of control, screaming child in one spot REPEATEDLY is basically just chaos and more of a physical battle for control.

^^That type of engagment with a child is not okay in my opinion.

Others may agree/disagree. I am sharing MY perspective and how/why I see the two scenarios differently.

.......hopefully makes sense....
Exactly. I "grabbed" her arms/shoulders as in I placed my hand firmly on her without squeezing hard or shaking. My intention was to get her attention and to speak firmly into her face. To me actual grabbing is much more violent with heavy squeezing and slight shaking even. Like imagine grabbing a child forcefully and their head snapping back or something (which I have witnessed before sadly) I would never ever do something like that to a child ever.

As you can see it is hard to describe which is why I put it in quotations.

It is similar to guiding a child with your hands towards an area...some people might say "pushing" but to me this is not actual pushing.
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Tags:bathroom problems, challenging child, destructive, disobedient, help me, illness, parent - interaction, play alone, rules, vocabulary
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