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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Do You Allow "Weapons"?
Christina72684 06:51 AM 03-18-2014
My kids, especially the boys, want to turn anything and everything into a weapon and play with it.....legos become a gun, toy screw driver is a sword, these round connecting things called Popoids bc futuristic space guns, etc. I tell them over and over, "No weapons at daycare."

Do you allow them to pretend to use guns, swords, etc or do you tell them they can't? I like them to use their imagination and no one pretends to die or anything gruesome, but I just don't like violence.
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Leanna 06:56 AM 03-18-2014
I run a gun/weapon free daycare. I do not allow weapon toys of any kind. I do see their creativity when they turn something into a gun/sword/alien ray shooter/etc., but I explain that guns hurt people and that we don't hurt each other, real or pretend. I also do not allow "dead" or "kill" play. I tell them that so many people would be so, so very sad if they died so we don't pretend it.
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KIDZRMYBIZ 06:59 AM 03-18-2014
I have a "no shooting" rule. They get way too rowdy when they play this way, inside and outside. There is plenty other ways to play here and things to do. That kind of play is forbidden at school. Why should I allow it here?
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Second Home 07:05 AM 03-18-2014
No guns or weapons here either , I try to redirect them or say they can pretend to squirt
water .
The new dcb came in today with a 2 ft long sword , sorry it has to stay in tbe cubby or back in tne car .
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nannyde 07:08 AM 03-18-2014
No gun play. It's so limiting and they fixate on it. It shuts down their ability to move onto anything else.

I don't allow any noise toys for the same reason. I don't like how it paralyzes their desire to do anything else.
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Blackcat31 07:13 AM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by KIDZRMYBIZ:
I have a "no shooting" rule. They get way too rowdy when they play this way, inside and outside. There is plenty other ways to play here and things to do. That kind of play is forbidden at school. Why should I allow it here?
I DO allow it. I totally understand why the schools can't and won't but I do allow it because I believe it is a part of healthy development.

Some kids focus on it a bit more than others, some take it to extremes and some have never participated or desired to take part in anything of the sort.

The kids that try to take it to the extreme are prime candidates for education and the ones who do choose to play, do so in developmentally appropriate ways.

Gun play, sword fighting and other similar play behaviors are all part of the timeless struggle between good guys and the bad guys. The female sex takes part in their own ways (Beauty & the Beast, Cinderella & her wicked step-mother....etc). It's all part of good verses evil.

It's fantasy play that can be used and done in a productive manner.

Banning something is never the cure. Education and moderation serves me much better and in much more positive ways than outright not allowing something that has been proven time and time again to be inherent in the behavior of humans.

There have been many studies that have proven this theory.

IMHO, gun play is no more the cause of violence than toy kitchen sets are the cause of obesity.
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spinnymarie 07:26 AM 03-18-2014
I won't *encourage* it, by having look-alike weapons around. However, shooters made out of Legos, swords made out of pipe cleaners... I'm fine with it. We talk about it, we don't ever fight real people, only imaginary people or bad guys or 'bad animals' as my son calls it. And if a real person gets hurt by the pretend fighting, then it is over for the day.
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daycare 07:37 AM 03-18-2014
where we lives guns are not acceptable by society, so NO. We do not allow any kind of violent play with or without weapons.

I also don't allow for the kids to play games in which they state, "I killed you, you're dead." Or things like this.
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daycare 07:39 AM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I DO allow it. I totally understand why the schools can't and won't but I do allow it because I believe it is a part of healthy development.

Some kids focus on it a bit more than others, some take it to extremes and some have never participated or desired to take part in anything of the sort.

The kids that try to take it to the extreme are prime candidates for education and the ones who do choose to play, do so in developmentally appropriate ways.

Gun play, sword fighting and other similar play behaviors are all part of the timeless struggle between good guys and the bad guys. The female sex takes part in their own ways (Beauty & the Beast, Cinderella & her wicked step-mother....etc). It's all part of good verses evil.

It's fantasy play that can be used and done in a productive manner.

Banning something is never the cure. Education and moderation serves me much better and in much more positive ways than outright not allowing something that has been proven time and time again to be inherent in the behavior of humans.

There have been many studies that have proven this theory.

IMHO, gun play is no more the cause of violence than toy kitchen sets are the cause of obesity.
your last line made me laugh..... This could be so true. Thank goodness we don't have a toy fryer.

I can see your point, you live in an area where it is normal to have a gun right??
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llpa 07:40 AM 03-18-2014
I also do not encourage it and do not forbid it. If it comes up in play thruout the day, we discuss whatever is appropriate and move on. I don't know if I will always feel that way, but so far it hasn't been a big deal here. That is prob because my dcks are younger. (2 & 3)
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Blackcat31 07:53 AM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
your last line made me laugh..... This could be so true. Thank goodness we don't have a toy fryer.

I can see your point, you live in an area where it is normal to have a gun right??
Yes. I live in an area where having guns is common.

I don't think I know a single family that doesn't own a gun.

Plinking guns for back yard target practice
Rifles for small/large game
Hand guns for personal protection

Guns are VERY common here. So is education and safety.
99.9% of the kids in my community take Gun Safety courses/classes at 12 yrs old. Both my son and my daughter included.
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Patches 11:03 AM 03-18-2014
Nope. No guns, no swords, no play fighting. I also may be taking it to the extreme here, but i also dont allow superheroes.
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daycarediva 11:14 AM 03-18-2014
I think power play is SUPER important and I don't discourage it. I allow power play, with limits set. No gun play. Designated area. Designated times. If I allowed gun play locally, I would have a hard time keeping clients (although 2 of my current clients not only allow gun play, but inappropriate adult tv violence and rated M video games).

This is an awesome handout from Lisa Murphy about power play.

http://www.ooeygooey.com/wp-content/...youre-dead.pdf

They get creative with their power play because of it. One little dude loves being a police officer. He comes up with different reasons why he doesn't have his gun, dropped it, left it home, bad guy stole it, out of ammo, can't see in the fog, etc.

It works well here for my group. I do a LOT of redirection with the two children I mentioned above, but the rest understand it beautifully.
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Heidi 11:15 AM 03-18-2014
Precisely because so many families here have guns is why I do not allow gun play. There is no way a 3 year old can tell the difference between a real gun and a toy one, IMO. So, no gun play at daycare.

Now, if I had SA"s, I might handle it differently, or ask them to save it for at home (as an example for the littles). But, with my particular age group, I don't think gun play is appropriate.

Years ago, we visited a friend whose 2 1/2 yo had a very real looking rifle. When he chased my son around with it, my son was scared (also 2 1/2). I asked mom if it was possible to put it away for the weekend. She said "oh, come on, we don't want G* to be afraid of guns".

Um, yes, we DO! Sorry, but if my 2 1/2 year old (or more likely 4 year old) is at a friends house, and friends says "hey, want to see my dad's cool gun?" I prayed he'd say "Ah...NO!"

I don't have any problem at all with owning guns, hunting, target shooting, etc. But, they are a weapon, not a toy.
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Heidi 11:16 AM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I think power play is SUPER important and I don't discourage it. I allow power play, with limits set. No gun play. Designated area. Designated times. If I allowed gun play locally, I would have a hard time keeping clients (although 2 of my current clients not only allow gun play, but inappropriate adult tv violence and rated M video games).

This is an awesome handout from Lisa Murphy about power play.

http://www.ooeygooey.com/wp-content/...youre-dead.pdf

They get creative with their power play because of it. One little dude loves being a police officer. He comes up with different reasons why he doesn't have his gun, dropped it, left it home, bad guy stole it, out of ammo, can't see in the fog, etc.

It works well here for my group. I do a LOT of redirection with the two children I mentioned above, but the rest understand it beautifully.

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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:43 AM 03-18-2014
Mine can pretend that it is a laser. LOL. Seriously, that is as far as I let it go. And, boy do they go!
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WImom 11:45 AM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by KIDZRMYBIZ:
I have a "no shooting" rule. They get way too rowdy when they play this way, inside and outside. There is plenty other ways to play here and things to do. That kind of play is forbidden at school. Why should I allow it here?
Same here. I don't like hearing shooting noises all day as well. My kids will play superhero - I require them to all be good superhero's though and not shooting or they play "monster" but it can only be outside.
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AmyLeigh 11:49 AM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I DO allow it. I totally understand why the schools can't and won't but I do allow it because I believe it is a part of healthy development.

Some kids focus on it a bit more than others, some take it to extremes and some have never participated or desired to take part in anything of the sort.

The kids that try to take it to the extreme are prime candidates for education and the ones who do choose to play, do so in developmentally appropriate ways.

Gun play, sword fighting and other similar play behaviors are all part of the timeless struggle between good guys and the bad guys. The female sex takes part in their own ways (Beauty & the Beast, Cinderella & her wicked step-mother....etc). It's all part of good verses evil.

It's fantasy play that can be used and done in a productive manner.

Banning something is never the cure. Education and moderation serves me much better and in much more positive ways than outright not allowing something that has been proven time and time again to be inherent in the behavior of humans.

There have been many studies that have proven this theory.

IMHO, gun play is no more the cause of violence than toy kitchen sets are the cause of obesity.
I'm with BC on this one.
This is a really good article about how to moderate gun play by pbs: http://www.pbs.org/parents/raisingbo...ression05.html
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Blackcat31 11:55 AM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Precisely because so many families here have guns is why I do not allow gun play. There is no way a 3 year old can tell the difference between a real gun and a toy one, IMO. So, no gun play at daycare.

Now, if I had SA"s, I might handle it differently, or ask them to save it for at home (as an example for the littles). But, with my particular age group, I don't think gun play is appropriate.

Years ago, we visited a friend whose 2 1/2 yo had a very real looking rifle. When he chased my son around with it, my son was scared (also 2 1/2). I asked mom if it was possible to put it away for the weekend. She said "oh, come on, we don't want G* to be afraid of guns".

Um, yes, we DO! Sorry, but if my 2 1/2 year old (or more likely 4 year old) is at a friends house, and friends says "hey, want to see my dad's cool gun?" I prayed he'd say "Ah...NO!"

I don't have any problem at all with owning guns, hunting, target shooting, etc. But, they are a weapon, not a toy.
There is no way a 3 yr old knows whether or not a liquid cleaning product is dangerous either but we don't stop cleaning just because cleaning products are hazardous.
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Heidi 11:59 AM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
There is no way a 3 yr old knows whether or not a liquid cleaning product is dangerous either but we don't stop cleaning just because cleaning products are hazardous.
True....we lock them up. It's funny, but some people are more cautious with their Windex than their guns. I also never had car keys in reach...and yes, my kids had toy cars. I also have to say, while most kids under 5 have probably witnessed people shooting guns at each other on TV (on a variety of shows), they have not seen people shooting Windex at each other, and it's not nearly as deadly. My biggest fear, honestly, is that a child would mistake a real gone for a toy and shoot another child. I would just not want to be party to that risk.

I absolutely respect your opinion, and respect people's right to own guns. But, as a parent or childcare provider, safety is going to trump anything else, and I want my kiddos afraid of guns. A healthy fear, in my opinion. Older children can be taught the difference, and can be taught gun safety. Parents can do as they choose at their homes. But my house, my rules, as we often like to say here.
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Blackcat31 12:12 PM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
True....we lock them up. It's funny, but some people are more cautious with their Windex than their guns. I also never had car keys in reach...and yes, my kids had toy cars. I also have to say, while most kids under 5 have probably witnessed people shooting guns at each other on TV (on a variety of shows), they have not seen people shooting Windex at each other, and it's not nearly as deadly. My biggest fear, honestly, is that a child would mistake a real gone for a toy and shoot another child. I would just not want to be party to that risk.

I absolutely respect your opinion, and respect people's right to own guns. But, as a parent or childcare provider, safety is going to trump anything else, and I want my kiddos afraid of guns. A healthy fear, in my opinion. Older children can be taught the difference, and can be taught gun safety. Parents can do as they choose at their homes. But my house, my rules, as we often like to say here.

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Heidi 12:20 PM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You know it, sister.
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craftymissbeth 12:24 PM 03-18-2014
Nope. No gun play here at all.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/03/ab...-and-candy-sho

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132159

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...guns-year.html


Even children who have extensive education about gun safety have a very difficult time NOT touching a found gun. For me, it's just so much easier and makes me feel a whole lot better to just not allow gun play here at all. And it's a type of play that seems "ugly" to me... not sure how to explain it.
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Jack Sprat 12:31 PM 03-18-2014
No gun play here. It was never a concern until new dcb started. He needs a lot of reminding that we don't play guns or knives here.
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Evansmom 12:36 PM 03-18-2014
We allow guns and power play here. But it's a total non-issue. The boys do not fixate on it, sometimes they play guns, sometimes they doctor stuffed animals. I believe because I don't police it strictly that it's just a non-issue with them. They can take it or leave it.
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Blackcat31 12:45 PM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Nope. No gun play here at all.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/03/ab...-and-candy-sho

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132159

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...guns-year.html


Even children who have extensive education about gun safety have a very difficult time NOT touching a found gun. For me, it's just so much easier and makes me feel a whole lot better to just not allow gun play here at all. And it's a type of play that seems "ugly" to me... not sure how to explain it.
Your links all reference the same ABC study/experiment.

Kids who have never been allowed to engage in fantasy (gun) play, as well as never received any type of introduction/education in regards to guns and gun safety they ARE drawn to it. Because its the unknown and human nature dictates that we are instinctively drawn to things unknown.
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Lyss 12:54 PM 03-18-2014
I allow it. Unlike BC and others we don't live in an area where the majority of people have guns but I still allow it and personally feel it's part of their development.

I have provider friends that don't allow it or any sort of superhero (good guy vs bad guy) play and I accept it's their choice, it is after all their home, I just have a different set of rules. I've never had any issues with kids being overly violent or strictly out to inflict pain (which I would have concern with) while engaging in this sort of play.
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daycare 12:58 PM 03-18-2014
I grew up in a country where guns where every where. Everyone owned at least 3-4 guns. NOt just hand guns, but machine guns are normal for people to own too. There is supposed to be a law that says you have to be 21 to own one in egypt, but no one regulates anything to do with the guns. YOu can see children running up and down the street with them at very young ages. They are sold on streets in street markets, anyone can buy one.

I lived in a safer area where I was not so subjected to a lot of violence daily if I stayed near my home, but I would see kids walking around with missing limbs, finger, etc from accidental shooting themselves or friend. Of course, Egypt you can not compare to USA, but the deaths caused by accidental guns there is much higher than here. Maybe about 2000 a year there vs 200 here.

It's been a long time since I lived back in my home country, but I doubt anything has improved.

Because of this, I have a great fear of guns. I would just rather parents take the responsibility to teach or not teach their children about weapons of any kind. They won't learn it from me, because we don't allow it here. I will not have any part of their lack of or over abundance of knowledge of them.

1 gun can kill many people instantly without warning. I don't want to be responsible for teaching anything about them.
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craftymissbeth 01:04 PM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I grew up in a country where guns where every where. Everyone owned at least 3-4 guns. NOt just hand guns, but machine guns are normal for people to own too. There is supposed to be a law that says you have to be 21 to own one in egypt, but no one regulates anything to do with the guns. YOu can see children running up and down the street with them at very young ages. They are sold on streets in street markets, anyone can buy one.

I lived in a safer area where I was not so subjected to a lot of violence daily if I stayed near my home, but I would see kids walking around with missing limbs, finger, etc from accidental shooting themselves or friend. Of course, Egypt you can not compare to USA, but the deaths caused by accidental guns there is much higher than here. Maybe about 2000 a year there vs 200 here.

It's been a long time since I lived back in my home country, but I doubt anything has improved.

Because of this, I have a great fear of guns. I would just rather parents take the responsibility to teach or not teach their children about weapons of any kind. They won't learn it from me, because we don't allow it here. I will not have any part of their lack of or over abundance of knowledge of them.

1 gun can kill many people instantly without warning. I don't want to be responsible for teaching anything about them.

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Kabob 02:01 PM 03-18-2014
I'm from the same area as Blackcat so I also know a lot of people with guns. My dad being one of them. I grew up watching my dad shoot at targets but never live animals, though. He taught me gun safety and that we don't kill for fun. But he always kept his guns locked up as per my mom's request. My dad also used to joke "fight fair kids; guns and knives only."

I'd say I turned out pretty normal. My brother was actually afraid of guns or anything like that...he hated the idea of someone possibly getting hurt and was terrified of the sound guns made...he never joined us in target practice. He would cry for me if I fell and scraped my knee, for instance. So really, it depends on the person and their background.

But I still don't let the daycare kids pretend to use weapons...because someone always ends up getting hurt and I don't know what their parents are teaching them at home. Same thing with wrestling. They can do it on their own time but I don't need more potential for injuries during daycare. After daycare, my son enjoys some "wrestling" with daddy though...
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Meeko 04:05 PM 03-18-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
I run a gun/weapon free daycare. I do not allow weapon toys of any kind. I do see their creativity when they turn something into a gun/sword/alien ray shooter/etc., but I explain that guns hurt people and that we don't hurt each other, real or pretend. I also do not allow "dead" or "kill" play. I tell them that so many people would be so, so very sad if they died so we don't pretend it.
This exactly.

No weapons of any kind. I tell the parents that there are ENDLESS things the kids can play and imagine. Killing each other doesn't need to be one of them.
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LadyMacbeth 05:12 PM 03-18-2014
I try to redirect them without placing emphasis on the weapon. I'll point to their hand or arm and explain that the length and force of their movements can hurt somebody.

Even though I'm anti guns, I do believe there is no harm in gun play and that children are just imitating what they see on tv. The problem arises, I believe, from tv, movies, and video games that glorify crime and make it seem cool, instead of irresponsible.

Another issue is that I'm in a very pro gun part of the US. It's the parents responsibility to set these limits for their children and I don't want to go against their teachings
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Stepping 04:36 PM 03-19-2014
I've always believed, and learned as part of my training, that power, aggressive and gun play are a part of healthy, normal development.

However, I was raised in a different country where we don't often have to worry about our children having ready access to guns.

Now that I'm in the US, I have to admit, I'm conflicted about this. Luckily, none of my boys have started gun play yet so I haven't had to make a choice yet.
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Play Care 03:17 AM 03-20-2014
Gun play is like wrestling, a part of healthy development, and one that I strongly believe should take place at HOME, not day care.

I have a wide age range and gun play leads to wrestling, which leads to fighting, etc. And with bigger boys someone always gets hurt. A few years ago I gained a dcb from another (highly regarded) provider. The parents issue? There was too much gun play/wrestling and her child was coming home covered in bruises and scratches (more than normal) He was fine here (as was she ) but I do run a tighter ship with the wrestling/gun play.
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KidGrind 04:00 AM 03-20-2014
No weapon toys are allowed. If the DCKs make a gun out of Mega Blocks, I do not mind. None of my DCKs focus or obsess about with shooting one another. I rarely see it. Though I feel abused by books & storytelling. All of them except the baby are obsessed with books and story time.

Growing up in California, most people I knew had guns. It was nothing to go into a neighbors home and see one on a side, kitchen or cocktail table. I grew up thinking Dads have guns. I never thought to touch it or play with them. With gun safety in the media I’m sure it’s not as common to see a gun laying around.
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lovemykidstoo 04:59 AM 03-20-2014
The boys that I care for are always playing shoot'em they call it. They do not have actual toy guns or swords, but rather they make things out of legos typically or one of my wood sticks that we use for music. I have never had real toy guns. I don't mind it. I don't believe that a 2 year old playing with a lego made gun has ever been proven to be the cause of a 15 year old going in a school and shooting someone. Having said that, I don't allow them to shoot each other. They need to shoot the dragons in the backyard or a bird or squirrel.
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Familycare71 05:03 AM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by Stepping:
I've always believed, and learned as part of my training, that power, aggressive and gun play are a part of healthy, normal development.

However, I was raised in a different country where we don't often have to worry about our children having ready access to guns.

Now that I'm in the US, I have to admit, I'm conflicted about this. Luckily, none of my boys have started gun play yet so I haven't had to make a choice yet.
WHERE in the US do children have a "ready access to guns"!?

I grew up in a hunting family- I was taught (as we're each of my kids) to shoot at 8. But The general exposure much earlier. We do not fear guns-
I also have a healthy respect for good vs evil play-
With that said I still don't allow weapon play and "bad guy" play here. I don't like the way it escalates. Even my own kids weren't allowed during daycare hours. I find it too hard to control in a group setting...
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Annalee 09:45 AM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
IMHO, gun play is no more the cause of violence than toy kitchen sets are the cause of obesity.
AMEN!!!!

When QRIS started with assessment and guns or action figures were a definite no-no, providers explained how certain children have parents with jobs who have guns...Do we teach the children the parents are wrong? NO, we explain how every person has their place in the world and what is expected when these "community helpers" have a gun. Many dads/moms hunt with guns, bows, etc. While I do monitor closely when children in my care talk/play guns, I feel it is a great opportunity to teach safety as well.
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Texasjeepgirl 12:32 PM 03-20-2014
I'd just like to say..
This thread is what I love about this forum...

Personally.. I do not allow weapon toys...
I don't allow gunplay... or pretending to shoot one another...

I have a sister that has two sons...she has also taught elementary level school for 20 years...
At one time she told me that her son 'turns everything' into a POW POW....
so we had that discussion...about the fact that you can IMAGINE that a banana is a POW POW...but ultimately...it is a banana... only a toy gun is actually a POW POW..
anyway.. I do have my own opinion about violent type play with weapon toys...

But...as a side bar..
My husband is a Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor.
He has many guns.. all locked away in another part of our building..
He has gun classes all the time...and I've heard him speak about
non violent conflict resolution.
I have been with him...at an IHOP late one night...when a fight broke out...it was near our table...and although he is very protective of me...
he was very upset afterward...
If he were to have become involved...and something happened... it would affect his Instructor license... so he is all about NOT getting caught in someone else's conflict ...

Anyway... I enjoyed reading Blackcats opinion on this subject...and I have clicked on many of the links to read through them as well..
Thanks all for always broadening my knowledge...just by expressing your various opinions and insight...

www.tammyschildcare.com

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Stepping 01:25 PM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
WHERE in the US do children have a "ready access to guns"!?

I grew up in a hunting family- I was taught (as we're each of my kids) to shoot at 8. But The general exposure much earlier. We do not fear guns-
I also have a healthy respect for good vs evil play-
With that said I still don't allow weapon play and "bad guy" play here. I don't like the way it escalates. Even my own kids weren't allowed during daycare hours. I find it too hard to control in a group setting...
I apologize if my comments offended or angered you, that wasn't my intention. However, the US has far more gun crime than most other western countries and rightly or wrongly this is a common impression of the US.

See comment above about a provider who frequently saw guns around people's homes growing up.

"Growing up in California, most people I knew had guns. It was nothing to go into a neighbors home and see one on a side, kitchen or cocktail table. I grew up thinking Dads have guns. I never thought to touch it or play with them. With gun safety in the media I’m sure it’s not as common to see a gun laying around"
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Play Care 04:01 PM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by Stepping:
I apologize if my comments offended or angered you, that wasn't my intention. However, the US has far more gun crime than most other western countries and rightly or wrongly this is a common impression of the US.

See comment above about a provider who frequently saw guns around people's homes growing up.

"Growing up in California, most people I knew had guns. It was nothing to go into a neighbors home and see one on a side, kitchen or cocktail table. I grew up thinking Dads have guns. I never thought to touch it or play with them. With gun safety in the media I’m sure it’s not as common to see a gun laying around"
I don't think you are wrong. We've had several children in our area die after being shot with a gun a parent left lying around. And it's been incredibly difficult to prosecute the parents for absolute negligence.
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