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  #1  
Old 10-26-2010, 02:34 PM
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Default Question About Terming Children

I really really don't mean to offend anyone (ok, there's a loaded way to start a post, right...), but I have a question.

I'm used to working in centers. My most recent center that I worked at was a publicly funded one and we were not allowed to terminate children unless there was HUGE amounts of documentation, meetings with the parents, goals set, etc etc etc. It was a huge deal to term a child that often took weeks and weeks.

So, coming in here it seems pretty commonplace and I feel sad or confused as to why it happens so often...

Have you termed a child and what were the circumstances? Did you give it a long time and try different ways of working with the child or did you decide quickly that it wasn't working out...Have you ever regretted terming??

Again, I really don't mean to offend anyone, I just never expected to see soo many kids being termed...

Thanks!
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:01 PM
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I've only had to term a 3x times in 16 years. Only one time was due to the child themselves. He was really aggressive and mean and I could not get mom to work with me on disciplining him. He bit a 15 month old dcg once and he was 5. Dcm said that the dcg must have done something to deserve it!! He told me constantly that he did not have to listen and that I was not his boss. I did not have the extra hands or the resources to work with this child. The safety of all the others came first. The other couple times I had to term was due to parents and not paying on time. After awhile one bill got so big and I couldn't handle it financially so they had to go. I ended up writing off ALOT that year! They never paid and have made a trail of daycares in our town that the family owes $$ to. The other family was like two steps forward and 4 steps back..they had a running balance that just never got anywhere. When I discussed it with mom, she got all pissy and when the attitude changed toward me it became an unbearable situation that was not healthy for the children or me so she had to go. Now I am pre-pay so payments are not an issue anymore.
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:06 PM
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I have only terminated one family in 18 years - the kid cussed like a sailor and the parents thought it was cute, cute, cute. Other than that, I have always interviewed carefully to find families that I feel confident will be on the same page as I am when it comes to daycare, which has worked well for me.
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:35 PM
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I termed one child so far. He was here for a total of 2 full days and 2 half days. I couldn't deal with him. He didn't want to play with toys, the other kids, or do crafts. He refused to eat, drink, or sleep. He screamed and cried so much that the other kids were playing with their hands on their ears. He cried for every minute of each day he was here. there was no talking to him or reasoning with him. On his last day, he got himself so worked up that he vomited all over me, my floor, and the chair he was sitting in. I called mom that minute and terminated by phone.

He was not happy, I was not happy, and the other kids were not happy. I do NOT feel guilty one bit for terminating him. I am not a good provider if I do what is good for one child/family. I am a great provider if I do what is best for me, my family, my dc kids/families as a whole.

Center care is NOTHING like home daycare. Comparing the 2 is like comparing apples to steaks. Home daycares are private businesses and residences. If I don't like the way a parent looks at me, I am able to terminate. This is my home and my family and that is what is most important to me. That is what comes first.
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenNJ View Post
Center care is NOTHING like home daycare. Comparing the 2 is like comparing apples to steaks. Home daycares are private businesses and residences. If I don't like the way a parent looks at me, I am able to terminate. This is my home and my family and that is what is most important to me. That is what comes first.
Nicely said

I have termed a few times. One was non-payment; one was a 20 pound 4 month old who needed to be held to keep from crying (terminated during trial); one was a 1 year old who never stopped screaming even while eating (terminated during trial); one was due to parent not respecting my policy of dropping child off by 9am and getting mad that we were on a walk at 9:03 when he came to drop her off as well as many other unrespectful things before that; several were drop-ins that didn't sign a contract when I updated it; and one because she was a drop-in wanting to change to part-time and her kid was a terror that I couldn't handle that often.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:33 PM
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I've termed one family due to outright disrespect from a parent. I put up with it for 7 months and finally termed. Best thing I've ever done. I do NOT have to allow people into my home who make me uncomfortable.

I'm guessing that we "see" it on this forum a lot because this is where providers come when they need help - and I don't know of a whole lot of things more intimidating and stressful than letting a family go. I don't really think it's happening all that frequently, this just happens to be a place to turn to for support when it does happen. I could be way off base but that's my guess!
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:36 PM
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Two children for us. Both had major behavior issues (won't go into detail, there'd be too much lol), the first one cussed really bad and parents thought it was funny, he was extremely physically aggressive to all the other children and myself and the owner, and then the family started to threaten us like they'd turn us in to state or something. On his last day we knew we'd made the right decision when the Dad called the owner and yelled at her and threatend her so bad. We even had to have the owner's husband come in long enough for Dad to pick him up because we didn't know what he'd do. And we weren't the first daycare to have to term them. None of the others kept him for even 2 weeks. But for both children we tried everything we could think of, discussed it with parents, then tried more things, and on and on for a few months. Other families started getting leery of leaving their children with us, and we lost a few families in the process. We learned that when the case is that bad, the sooner we term, the better. If we didn't, we'd lose all our business. I don't ever want a child in my care to be afraid to come to Daycare because of what a certain other child might do to them that day. If they don't feel protected in our care, we may as well close our doors.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmcp2001 View Post

I'm guessing that we "see" it on this forum a lot because this is where providers come when they need help - and I don't know of a whole lot of things more intimidating and stressful than letting a family go. I don't really think it's happening all that frequently, this just happens to be a place to turn to for support when it does happen. I could be way off base but that's my guess!
Yes, I'm sure this is true...

Thank you everyone for your responses. Like I said, it's something that I am soooo unfamiliar with.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendallina View Post
I really really don't mean to offend anyone (ok, there's a loaded way to start a post, right...), but I have a question.

I'm used to working in centers. My most recent center that I worked at was a publicly funded one and we were not allowed to terminate children unless there was HUGE amounts of documentation, meetings with the parents, goals set, etc etc etc. It was a huge deal to term a child that often took weeks and weeks.

So, coming in here it seems pretty commonplace and I feel sad or confused as to why it happens so often...

Have you termed a child and what were the circumstances? Did you give it a long time and try different ways of working with the child or did you decide quickly that it wasn't working out...Have you ever regretted terming??

Again, I really don't mean to offend anyone, I just never expected to see soo many kids being termed...

Thanks!
I termed a family but it was only b/c of the parents, had nothing to do with the kids. Parents were unappreciative, frequently picked up late, was always arriving late (making the kids miss the bus they were supposed to be on, meaning I was then inconvenienced & had to drive them), asked me for discounts they were not entitled to, lol!!! I could go on & on. I for one feel since I am in control of my clientele why should I have to put up with such bad parental behavior? I did give the parent 2 month's notice (over summer break when they were off, client was a teacher).
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:07 PM
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Kendallina....you're right, it does seem very common....to me, it seems especially common here and it's saddening in some cases. I fear we are doing a huge disservice to children when we just "pass the buck" because of behavior issues. It only prolongs and perpetuates the problem for the child.

Anyways, it is more common than many realize, there was a study done on this and it is actually much more frequent in private programs than in state-funded. Here is a link:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=2290
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2010, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
Kendallina....you're right, it does seem very common....to me, it seems especially common here and it's saddening in some cases. I fear we are doing a huge disservice to children when we just "pass the buck" because of behavior issues. It only prolongs and perpetuates the problem for the child.

Anyways, it is more common than many realize, there was a study done on this and it is actually much more frequent in private programs than in state-funded. Here is a link:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=2290
Thanks for posting that, I'll take a look when I'm not quite soooo tired...lol

But, yeh, I feel really torn about the whole issue. I completely see it from the provider's side.
1. It's my house and my business
2. I'm the only adult here much of the time, if it's too much for me to handle, then it's too much (at least at the center we could help each other out, swap out for a few minutes, take a break, etc)

But, being trained in a center it was about what was best for the child. And, yes, in the state funded center we had several children that had difficult behavior and we took the stance that it was our job to do what we could to make sure the child had a successful experience. But, of course, that was preschool and the next step would be kindergarten and goodness knows the kinder teachers do not have the time/resources/etc to put up with any kind of bad behavior. So, obviously, it doesn't compare well to a home child care setting, as many pointed out.

But I'm just rambling and still torn...lol. Keep the posts coming though, I appreciate the info for when/if I come across this situation myself.

One last thing, I guess I don't think twice about a provider terming a family because of non-payment or not following policies. We would have termed families for the same thing and I would do it now. It's just the child behavior ones that stump me a bit...
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2010, 06:50 PM
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i have only had to do it once and it was to protect the other children in care from an abusive child
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:03 PM
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So far I consider myself very blessed, i've had great families and children. not perfect of course, but if there's a problem, we've been able to work it out.
I worked in a center before I started from my home (so 20 years ago!) and it is much easier to deal with issues in that environment. You have more help, you're not responsible for all the food, clean-up..., and it's easier to say something is "center policy" than "My policy"!
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:50 PM
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I just termed my 1st one because of behaviour. He was only 17 months old, but was extremely hyper, rough and violent and he was ruining my home because of his roughness. Rocking the pnp's, ramming toys and stuff into my furniture, closets, walls, jumping on my furniture, throwing food on the floor, screaming at the top of his lungs when he didnt get his way, etc. Too much for me to handle and I was his 4th dcp....I hated to give up the money, but I needed my sanity back more!
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legomom922 View Post
I just termed my 1st one because of behaviour. He was only 17 months old, but was extremely hyper, rough and violent and he was ruining my home because of his roughness. Rocking the pnp's, ramming toys and stuff into my furniture, closets, walls, jumping on my furniture, throwing food on the floor, screaming at the top of his lungs when he didnt get his way, etc. Too much for me to handle and I was his 4th dcp....I hated to give up the money, but I needed my sanity back more!
The part I bolded.....that is sad.
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:21 AM
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I've termed twice, and both times it's taking a lot of consideration. The first one, I still feel badly about. I was new and inexperienced and I think I may have overreacted in the situation. But the second one, it had been months of horrendous aggressive behaviour and I was finished dealing with it. This child had been termed from several daycares in 2 different cities, I stuck it out because I didn't want to "give up" on him, but there comes a point when you have to realize that you can't be the hero all the time. It broke my heart to terminate, but there was truly nothing else I could do for him. The parents and I had had several "conferences" about the issue, I'd referred him to several programs and specialists and the mother simply wasn't taking the issue seriously. After I dunno how many people had terminated him. That fact was frustrating enough in itself.

I agree that it seems common on here and in other forums because we are seeking advice from others. The majority of what you will see on forums would be the most difficult problems providers face, and vents. Plus there's the fact that in family child care we are alone to face the problem, and it's more difficult to separate a problem child from other children, thus there's the issue of protecting/sheltering the others.

Yeah, comparing centre care to family child care is like apples to oranges. I try all the time. I have a little guy with autism, so he has a support worker that works with him here. I always ask her, "What do they do in centres?" and the answer is always something that's simply not possible in my home.

I NEVER look at a termination like "It's my home, if I don't like you, you're out." I always work my hardest to help the child before I get to the point of even considering terminating.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:35 AM
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I would always become a different person when this little guy was around. He could put me in the worst mood, and it didnt end when he left. The effects lingered in me hrs after he was gone, and I would dread the next day. I was totaly miserable! I think that's when you know one has to go! I am counting down the days until he's gone and I dont have to deal with him anymore, and I feel sorry for his next dcp who has no clue what she is in for...
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:49 AM
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I have to say truthfully that I agree completely with lego's most recent post. I know how she feels. I run a well oiled machine here and if one of the kiddos is being disruptive daily for an extended amount of time(read months) and you have done your best to work with the parents and things still aren't getting better then it is best to move on. Some kids do best with a nanny...some in daycare.
In the end I am not their mom.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:58 AM
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i dont come right out and terminate, but if i know the child will be better suited somewhere else, i gently "nudge" them out.

i had one mom who was sooo demanding, instead of terminating, i talked her into rearranging her work schedule to be home more and hiring a part time nanny. afterward, she told me it was the best thing she ever did

i once convinced a mom to put her son in headstart. he just didnt "fit" in, and he needed more then i could offer. she was excited about it, but she said she felt guilty that she was leaving me hanging (see- i made it look like it was her decision) but it really is what was best for the little guy, so i know i did the right thing.

i just pushed out the SA, just because i just cant handle that age group anymore. not really a termination, but more of a " i want to gear my business more towards the younger children, and can no longer accomodate the SA" kind of thing.

the only time i came right out and term'd immediately, was for a 12 year old boy who hit a female lifeguard (while we were at the lake) and told her to F-off, all because she told him not to throw rocks where the kids were swimming. no way was that gonna fly....
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:50 PM
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I haven't had to term many in the 15 years I've been doing daycare. Mostly because I have become pretty good at interviewing families and figuring out who I want.
I don't mean to sound bit#$y, but I am a daycare provider, not a therapist, and I can not "fix" every kid that comes with problems or issues because of poor parenting. Don't even want to try.
When my children were younger I used to look at potential clients and children and decide if these were the kind of friends I wanted them to be exposed to. I still try to use the same discretion.
I am only allowed 6 children in my home, so I want those 6 to fit well together.
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legomom922 View Post
I would always become a different person when this little guy was around. He could put me in the worst mood, and it didnt end when he left. The effects lingered in me hrs after he was gone, and I would dread the next day. I was totaly miserable! I think that's when you know one has to go! I am counting down the days until he's gone and I dont have to deal with him anymore, and I feel sorry for his next dcp who has no clue what she is in for...
I have a dck who I am like this for but keep holding on hoping I can last until they are old enough for school.
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by legomom922 View Post
I would always become a different person when this little guy was around. He could put me in the worst mood, and it didnt end when he left. The effects lingered in me hrs after he was gone, and I would dread the next day. I was totaly miserable! I think that's when you know one has to go! I am counting down the days until he's gone and I dont have to deal with him anymore, and I feel sorry for his next dcp who has no clue what she is in for...
Yeah, that's when you know it's time.

BTW, when I said it's sad he had 4 providers, I didn't mean anything toward you. It's just sad.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:08 PM
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BTW, when I said it's sad he had 4 providers, I didn't mean anything toward you. It's just sad.
I know. It's ok. It is sad, and I feel bad that I can't deal with him either. Hek he's only a baby! I am so desparate for money right now, but I cannot continue with him..thats how bad he makes me feel. he has SOOO much energy and never stops running, walking, he is buzzing around here all the time and I can never sit when he is here. He is into everything.
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