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View Poll Results: Did You Develop a 6th sense?
Yes 8 47.06%
No 5 29.41%
Thnking about it 4 23.53%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Who's On The Other Side Of The Computer Screen
Michael 04:09 PM 04-01-2012
I find this topic fascinating. It is distinctly special to our time and place in the virtual world. We've evolved over thousands of years relying on sound, body language and appearance to evaluate people which are mostly void here.

Many times when I write something to someone it can be political, parental even gender or culture driven. After all, we tend to be drawn to those who are most like ourselves. That has been the case in the past but these days it’s like we almost need a 6th sense.

Let’s say you are talking with a liberal or conservative bias, is the other person on the other side of the screen also liberal/conservative? Are we sure they have the same intentions or are they evaluating us as biased or correct? If you are talking about a female or male gender issue, are you sure the "entity" on the other end is the same gender? How do you know?

I don't think this is a bad thing, although one never knows what the true intention of the other person is. The internet allows us anonymity. Someone like me who uses his name and picture has to be careful about the appearance of my statements. I sometimes would like to have a second more “fuzzy” avatar and name. I could always do that but I wonder why I don’t? I’m not vulnerable or gullible. I've lived in NYC and Los Angeles and been in some of the most dangerous situations but I am still trusting of “mostly” everyone I come across.

I find even with the conversation about the 17 year old that was shot in Florida an almost white/black polarization in the physical world which carried over into the virtual world. We’ve taken our evaluations from our physical world into the virtual world. We carry the mental images and biases along with the narrative. I never know if someone on this forum is black/white/yellow or any other color for that matter. It really doesn’t matter and I think that is an advance in our cognitive and “spiritual” evolution. Are we more color/culture neutral in the space? Being so, are we more understanding and communal?

I thought I would just bring up this conversation on this slow sunny day here in California. Some may think this is somewhat creepy but I think it is a necessity in surviving and flourishing in this ever advancing new world. Did I develop a 6th sense? Did you?
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Mary Poppins 05:35 PM 04-01-2012
I have a HORRIBLE sense of who people are on the other side of the screen so I tend not to trust most people online and I try to avoid discussions that might offend them.
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Michael 06:36 PM 04-01-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
Oh and I have a HORRIBLE sense of who people are on the other side of the screen (since that was your question). So I tend not to trust most people online and I try to avoid discussions that might offend them.
Do you think you will ever develop that sense?
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Mary Poppins 06:49 PM 04-01-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
Do you think you will ever develop that sense?
I doubt it, I don't spend enough time interacting directly with people enough online. It's uncomfortable because of the screen barrier.

I prefer real life relationships and even then, I have found that my judgment of character is often skewed. People who I thought were one thing turned out to be quite another.

I have no sense of direction (as in compass-wise), either. Maybe the two are related?
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Michael 06:56 PM 04-01-2012
When I moved to New York City after living in Florida I was unaware of many of the dangers that were ever present. Over time I could sense if someone was approaching in a bad manner. I even use to comment to friends from other states to watch "what would happen next" when someone approached an unsuspecting tourist. You get a sense of things and I feel the same thing can be acquired on the internet over time.
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Mary Poppins 07:24 PM 04-01-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
When I moved to New York City after living in Florida I was unaware of many of the dangers that were ever present. Over time I could sense if someone was approaching in a bad manner. I even use to comment to friends from other states to watch "what would happen next" when someone approached an unsuspecting tourist. You get a sense of things and I feel the same thing can be acquired on the internet over time.
(I edited my original answer because I only read the title before answering )

I envy your street smarts. I grew up in California and spent a lot of time in LA and San Fran, and learned not to trust anyone to a certain degree but I still had a hard time because I like to think most people are genuine and nice (which is how you get lured in of course).

Interacting online feels much like being back in Cali, really. I WANT to think everyone is nice and genuine but then I pull back and start thinking they are really a Nigerian with too much money and nowhere safe to keep it.
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Michael 01:24 AM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
(I edited my original answer because I only read the title before answering )

I envy your street smarts. I grew up in California and spent a lot of time in LA and San Fran, and learned not to trust anyone to a certain degree but I still had a hard time because I like to think most people are genuine and nice (which is how you get lured in of course).

Interacting online feels much like being back in Cali, really. I WANT to think everyone is nice and genuine but then I pull back and start thinking they are really a Nigerian with too much money and nowhere safe to keep it.
I had a friend that actually paid money to that Nigerian scam and she had a Masters Degree.
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Kaddidle Care 05:59 AM 04-02-2012
Book Smarts does not = common sense.

After reading forums for about 10 years, I can usually get a sense of who is legit and who is a phoney baloney. But it takes me a while reading their posts to do so.

On one forum we used to play games with each other, changing our names or creating new ones just to see if our friends could guess who we were. It takes some skill but there are subtle expressions and posting times that help to identify people.

I once discovered a knucklehead/phoney baloney on my own town forum that changed his name and then posted an excellent rating about his own restaurant. He thought he got away with it until he accidentally responded to someone on that thread in his other persona. Snagged! (While he did remove his post, it was not before I saw it.)
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nannyde 06:02 AM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
Nannyde PM'd me a long but good reply to this thread. I don't think I explained myself well enough on what I was trying to put forth in my original opener.

You all know who I am and some may know my history but lets for a moment consider that I am new member.

My name is Jane and I am single with one child. I am 24 years old and I live in NYC and of Chinese decent. These are all the things I mention in my New Member thread.

How do you know I'm not this person/description? You may not care at this point but lets say a few of you over time become good friends with me on the forum, Facebook or twitter. You form a visual picture in your mind with some feelings and over time have added a few more features to my vitual profile.

Would it bother you at some point if you found out I was not that description? Would it make you pause about what you may have told me. Take it a step further. You actually have extended feelings toward me but I may really be "your" father, mother or a family member but I never have to tell you since we never meet ot talk via "normal" interactive situations. We have become avatars in non-sensory space. We can be whoever we want.

Now that would be very unsettling for me as I am sure it would be for many of you. There are things I would never say to a family member or opposite sex. I would really want that 6th sense. Or would you rather not know?

I am sure many of you will not comment on this thread but haven't any of you wondered about this? Maybe that is why a PM is more appropriate then posting it here.

Should I even be writing this thread in public?

Thanks to Mary Poppins for making my Sunday more interesting.
Did you fall asleep in the middle of my pm? Better than any sleeping medicatation you could buy over the counter... that's for sure.

I'll tell ya a story but it will most likely make you drowsy so don't operate any heavy machinery after reading this until you have had a cup of joe.

Back in the day I was on an adoption debate board with a lot of women who were trying to adopt and some who had adopted or were adopted. Open adoption was a HOT HOT topic in those days. It would cause explosive fireworks debates in a split second. Most of the pro open adoption folks were birthmothers who were denied access to their child after being told when they relinquished parental rights that they would have access to them (face to face visits promised). So the birthmothers were the walking wounded because of the betrayal.

The folks against face to face open adoption were primarily the prospective adoptive parents and some already adopters.

So we are on the boards for YEARS together and there was a lady on there who had a three year old adopted daughter AND the child's birthmother was on the board too. They had a really magical open adoption and were very entwined into each others lives. Whenever the debate threads were ready to die down the birthmother of her kid would come on and tell us how wonderful the adoptive parent was and how sad she was that there was so many of the adopters who didn't care enough about the birthmother and their child to share the child.

Well come to find out the adoptive mother made up the birthmother. She wasn't on the board... had never posted... the whole thing was a made up deal. The adoptive mother had befriended a number of the board birthmothers and gave out contact info. They had gone as far as talking on the phone many times over the years. The adoptive mother counselled a LOT of hurting women.

The adoptive mother decided to kill off the birthmother and that's when it got very very nasty. She claimed she committed suicide. The suspicious posters started digging and found out that no one by the name, age, or sex of the birthmother had died in the area they had "both" claimed to live in. At that time newspapers were starting to print obits and with a young woman such as the birthmother there was suspicion because there was NOTHING in the press and nothing in the obits.

So one of the birthmothers who the adoptive parent befriended lived really close to where the adoptive mom lived and did some online research about the names given and somehow actually found the birthmother. She found her working at a big box drug store alive and well. She had never heard of the board and was not in an open adoption. She was mentally handicapped and lost her baby by adoption because she was unable to care for her. The only part of the story that was true was she had placed her daughter for adoption to this poster. The rest was all made up.

This ruse went on for YEARS. The adoptive mom posting about OA and then soon enough the birthmother came along and verified what a great adoptive mom she was. It was impossible to even debate the adoptive mom because she had her own child's birthmother coming along saying how wonderful she was and how whatever open adoption relationship she was debating was true and easy to do.

The adoptive mom had given SO many real life details that when she killed off the birthmother in her ruse it was enough details to figure out the story wasn't real.

Now I never suspected the birthmother wasn't real. The only thing I suspected was that the stories weren't real. They just didn't make sense. I never had any non board convos with her and I debated her pretty strongly. The birthmothers were very upset because they had developed a personal relationship with her and gave her a ton of their personal stories they would want private over YEARS.

It took a long time for the people who were hoodwinked by her to get over it. It reset the board because the ultimate open adoption with verification posters were no longer there. It reset the debates because the outer limit had just been found to be not real.

I'm still friends with two of the ladies on that board. It was a trip and honestly very hurtful to the ones who spent a couple of years confiding in her and following her advice.
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Countrygal 07:20 AM 04-02-2012
I voted "thinking about it" because the best answer I can give is "Sometimes". There have also been times that I have been completely fooled by someone.

For me, the time I spend "talking" to them makes a difference. Oftentimes there are little things you can pick up on.

Have you ever talked to one of the trollers trying to get you to buy something or send them some money? Have you ever purposely kept the conversation going? It's rather fun. Usually they won't play along, but sometimes you get a young one or a new one or a bored one and they'll actually open up a little. I learned a lot that way.

On normal threads like this, I definitely sometimes pick up on stuff, but not quickly and only if I am searching. If I'm just reading and not paying much attention, then "no".

But then, I've been fooled by people in real life as well!

The points you bring up are very true and very valid. The ways I find out if people are who they really say they are, IF I am interested in finding out are 1) become a "friend" to them, realizing that I am doing it to get to know that person no matter who they turn out to be - even a prison inmate pretending to be someone else (there is a LOT of this)
2) "follow" them as much as possible. Ask them their interests and try to find them on other forums, and ask what other forums they are on and become members. "friend" them on Facebook and Twitter and wherever else they have an account, follow their blogs
3) Spend copious amounts of time with them. IMO, that's about the only way I, personally, can get even an inkling of who the person really is.

Another thing to really think about are the "lurkers". One of my fears/worries is that all social service workers are members of this forum. I know if I was a Daycare Certifier I would be. I'm sure many of them are. They read everything I post. If I slip up, well........ who knows??

Anyway, I know none of my family "follows" me because most of them barely have internet! But there are other people that could, like my very nosey neighbor, my ex, my gs's parents. Lots of people I would not want to see everything I am thinking.

This is not a world for "confessing", in my mind. No sixth sense will really tell you what that person will do with that information, just like there are always those who will be able to fool you in "real" life.

My opinions only!
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Countrygal 07:33 AM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
I had a friend that actually paid money to that Nigerian scam and she had a Masters Degree.
Those are the ones I actually talked to on several occasions. One guy even told me where he lived and about his family, and yes, he finally, after about an hour admitted the scam, but only because he knew I knew, I didn't hide the fact. I made it clear from the start I knew it was a scam and that I wanted to talk to him about HIM, I wasn't interested in the scam.
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Blackcat31 07:39 AM 04-02-2012
I personally enjoy the virtual world. Not because people can be someone other than who they really are, but because I truly believe that despite who people "pretend" or try to be, their real personalities come out and give them away.....at least to me.

My rational for this is that appearances create a thousand pre-conceived notions about a person loooong before they even utter a word. I may look at someone's clothing, facial expression, body language and a million other things and decide a few things based on what I see. The conclusions I come to when I "see" someone are rooted deeply into the cultures, customs and basically tied to the way I was raised and grown. They may not all be right or wrong assumptions but they are immediate knee jerk assumptions that come to mind. We ALL do this. We may not all come up with the same assumptions, but we do all make these quick little judgements when we see someone before speaking with them.

I prefer the internet/virtual world for getting to really know someone. (Like you, Michael, I tend to trust everyone unless I have reason to do so.) However, I am also able to pick up little things in a person's words that tells me ALOT about the person. I "see" things in the words they use, the sentence structure and the general feel of what they say. Yes, people can "pretend" to be something/someone they are not but it is truly a difficult thing to pull off post after post after post without giving something (even miniscule) away.

I am also drawn to certain posters for the same little reasons. The places they add smilies to, the words they choose, the things they are offended by and the things they laugh at are all indicators of commonality between myself and someone else.

I also think a person's self-esteem or self-image plays alot into how well you are able to really read another person as who they are. I don't take offense when someone says something that could be taken harshly unless they outright say somthing like, "you suck" or whatever, I assume the best in most folks and always assume most people are simply looking for something (what they are looking for is as individual as the person) but rarely is it to hurt another person or to outright lie to them or be someone they are not.

Then there is the other side of the coin (me). If I do find someone's motives to be untrue or false or even just plain mean or deceitful, I can be a very unforgiving. I tend to simply stand back and allow them the space they need to "out" themselves as I believe most people cannot continue a charade forever (unless truly psychopathic or mentally unstable in the first place) and most times will stumble or trip and give themselves away. How long that takes is also an individual thing.

I also believe I am also a pretty good judge of character and can forgive when warranted, tolerate when necessary and also be a bit vindictive and revengeful if I feel the need. Which in my opinion, vindictive and or revengeful tendencies are self-serving so it is not often I go that route. I am an optimist and believe that there is a good in everyone and that we all deserve to be trusted and perceived as having positive intentions before others become attached or muddle up in any negative or biased judgments against us.


(I don't really believe in horoscopes or those kinds of things but I am a Scorpio if that adds anything to the mix...... LOL!! )
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Childminder 07:49 AM 04-02-2012
I believe I've developed a sense over the years not because of the internet but it has carried over to the internet. I tend to be dead on about people with my first impressions. My issue is that I don't always listen to theses feelings like I should, as often as I should. I feel like I am a good person and wish to believe others are too even though I had that "feeling". Reading a posting I get these feelings about the person but giving the anonymity of the internet I tend to just avoid and not really care. Liken it to reading a story, book, a novel and take from it what I want.
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Meeko 08:56 AM 04-02-2012
After a while I think the "real" person starts to creep out anyway. If some of the posters here were to write something as unregistered, I may know who they are simply by the WAY they write. There are some here who have a very distinctive writing pattern. They use the same words often, spell the same word wrong all the time...that kind of thing.

I discovered that posting unregistered doesn't work for me. I tried it when I was new to the boards and wrote some mean things to a few people in temper. That was before I came to know and understand their "personalities" better and now greatly respect them.

I am now going to "come out" because I hope it will help people "know" me better. Maybe some of you more intuitive ones will not be surprised by this.

"Unregistered" posted about her son being a sociopath and some of the problems this has caused. That was me.

I find this thread interesting because I have seen first hand how what people may see and perceive is not always genuine.

Many think of my son (he is 30) as a very sweet person. A pillar of the community. They would trust him with their lives. Those who have had closer contact with him begin to see that "something isn't right" and those who have been in the thick of it his whole life, know hell in it's true form.

I guess the way we look at people, our expectations, shape us as humans. Sometimes our personalities mesh...sometimes they don't. Sometimes we really just don't know a person like we think we do.

Maybe your best friend is someone I don't ever want to be around. Maybe the neighbor you can't stand is someone I would adore.......

Online relationships can be even more complex as we cannot see the facial expressions, hear the voice etc. We "see" the person very differently from say, a next door neighbor.

I think we do develop a sixth sense, but the question is whether it's telling us the truth??

We are such complex creatures are we not?! I guess that's why I love dogs so much...easier to understand!!!
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Blackcat31 09:18 AM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
After a while I think the "real" person starts to creep out anyway. If some of the posters here were to write something as unregistered, I may know who they are simply by the WAY they write. There are some here who have a very distinctive writing pattern. They use the same words often, spell the same word wrong all the time...that kind of thing.

I discovered that posting unregistered doesn't work for me. I tried it when I was new to the boards and wrote some mean things to a few people in temper. That was before I came to know and understand their "personalities" better and now greatly respect them.

I am now going to "come out" because I hope it will help people "know" me better. Maybe some of you more intuitive ones will not be surprised by this.

"Unregistered" posted about her son being a sociopath and some of the problems this has caused. That was me.

I find this thread interesting because I have seen first hand how what people may see and perceive is not always genuine.

Many think of my son (he is 30) as a very sweet person. A pillar of the community. They would trust him with their lives. Those who have had closer contact with him begin to see that "something isn't right" and those who have been in the thick of it his whole life, know hell in it's true form.

I guess the way we look at people, our expectations, shape us as humans. Sometimes our personalities mesh...sometimes they don't. Sometimes we really just don't know a person like we think we do.

Maybe your best friend is someone I don't ever want to be around. Maybe the neighbor you can't stand is someone I would adore.......

Online relationships can be even more complex as we cannot see the facial expressions, hear the voice etc. We "see" the person very differently from say, a next door neighbor.

I think we do develop a sixth sense, but the question is whether it's telling us the truth??

We are such complex creatures are we not?! I guess that's why I love dogs so much...easier to understand!!!
Meeko~ I just wanted to tell you that you are spot on with what you saying IMHO. I knew "unregistered" was you in regards to your son. How did I know? Because of the "feel" of your words and the way you worded your sentences. Mostly though because of my 6th sense or my own instincts.

I do think some people pay no mind to those types of things but I do, not always conscientiously but I know I pay attention to that.

I also feel I have gotten to know a bit about you just chatting and some of the things you feel strongly about or even things you let slide, tell me that you have had experience with a person like your son. I have been there as well and maybe that is why I picked up on that when you posted I don't know, but I do think our own experiences influence our 6th sense immensely.

I also think we are naturally drawn to people we have things in common with.

Whether our 6th sense is lying or telling the truth is something to consider but again, I think that has to do with our own perceptions and understanding of ourselves from within.
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nannyde 09:39 AM 04-02-2012
I think there is a switchover now with non verbal behavior that is in large part what happens from our fingertips out.

IRL and on tv I have noticed a huge surge in fingertip expression and full body language that supports the concentration of body energy at the fingertips. I see it in the kids when they are playing with a play phone. They used to hold it in one palm of one hand and with the other hand fingerpoint pressing the button. Now when they play phone they hold it with two hands and have their thumbs do the button pressing.

That's happened over the last three years or so.

My son found a phone outside the other day. He'll pick up anything off of the ground and the cell phone without a battery was a HUGE score. He carried it around all day yesterday and even tho he's never had a cell phone he was able to completely copy the body language that comes with a phone. I know the little bugger has it in his pocket at school today.. but I forgot to frisk him before he left.

When you watch shows like teen mom or any "reality" show... watch their body language and at the end of each scene ask yourself how much of that body language was about the using, holding, checking of the phone. Watch how the phone plays a part in when they are happy and sad. Watch what they do when they are stressed.

Whether we want it or not... there is a part of our behavior that is manifested by what comes out our fingertips both by phone and computers. It's not separate. We have the technology now that the electronic stuff has now been intergrated into who we are.
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Kaddidle Care 10:49 AM 04-02-2012
Nannyde - your story reminded me of a situation on a Golden Retriever forum where a woman (who was very involved in Rescue) wrote a horrendous story about her dog being SHOT in the shoulder while they were on a Golf Course.

About a month later she posted lovely photos of her dog, showing him from both sides and folks, there was no shaved shoulder - which you know there would be had it really been shot and they would have had to remove a bullet. Phoney Baloney! I hate to say it but for every person in Rescue that is good, there are just as many that are over the top nutters!

Blackcat - It would be hard for me to post "unregistered" as I do have a distinct writing style. (If you could call it that.)
BTW - an online friend who calls herself Scorpio tends to do a lot of online mooning. She just loves that little smilie that shows it's rear!

While I pride myself on telling the truth, I'm not very free with providing folks online with my real name, etc. Some forums I belong to have mailing lists and send each other cards and such. My name and address are not on those lists.

I will get close... but not too close. KWIM?
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My3cents 10:53 AM 04-02-2012
I grilled you Michael when I first started posting on the boards. I was curious why a male would be hanging around daycare boards, that didn't do daycare. Read your bio, and called you out on it. A red flag came up for me that scared me. Why...... because of background that has nothing to do with this board or me, and it was where I was at the time. I didn't trust you. I thought your wife was posting for you. My 6th sense went into overdrive. I did my homework and found out more about you and now feel "safe", safe enough to share my personal information with you and the board mods and to know it's not going anywhere other then for your eyes and information only. Michael if I needed help on anything techno- I would come to you for help. You earned my trust probably without even realizing.

Even though I have not met any of you- I consider you friends, online friends. Some of you are closer friends to me then others and that is because I can relate to you more then others. I wouldn't say that I am drawn to people that share the same interest, I am drawn to what draws me.

I easily get side tracked so many of you would know it was me posting and I don't have the best grammar and spelling. Spell check is my friend. I love to use faces, maybe not always as they are intended for. I know what I want to say but forming that in my head and then putting it out for all of you doesn't come easy to me. I have to work at it.

I have always had a sixth sense about me. I am not always right on, but when I am, I am

I have been "friends" with another board for over 14 years. Seen tons of quack jobs on that board.Trolls, trouble starters, agitators etc.. Have not met these people but I still consider them my friends. Talked on the tele to some.

I like that I don't see what you look like- it allows me to be friends with you and not judge you or put up a notion that your someone other then who you are inside. I try very hard not to judge, but we all do it as a defense mechanism to guard us from many things. Blackcat, I could have wrote your post.....even down to the Scorpio. Until someone runs at the mouth and make me not think well of you, I try to think the best in everyone.

Some of you on this board are closer to me then you know. I consider you friends even if you don't.

I think you can develop a 6th over time, just by being active here or wherever you frequent on the net. I often read post but don't respond- I can't. I don't have time for everyone of them. I pick and chose what interest me or what I feel I can offer to others for helps.

Anywhoooo tooooo deep for Monday
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nannyde 11:23 AM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by My3cents:
I grilled you Michael when I first started posting on the boards. I was curious why a male would be hanging around daycare boards, that didn't do daycare.
I lurked here for a long time before I posted so Michael being a guy didn't phase me at all.

All I could think of was that he was brilliant enough to put the two words "day" and "care" together and get the domain name. Then he built it out.

I would have never searched the word "daycare" together. I always used "day care". It took me a long time to adjust to the word once I came upon this place.
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My3cents 12:17 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by My3cents:
I grilled you Michael when I first started posting on the boards. I was curious why a male would be hanging around daycare boards, that didn't do daycare.
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I lurked here for a long time before I posted so Michael being a guy didn't phase me at all.

All I could think of was that he was brilliant enough to put the two words "day" and "care" together and get the domain name. Then he built it out.

I would have never searched the word "daycare" together. I always used "day care". It took me a long time to adjust to the word once I came upon this place.
I lurked too, for a long time
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Michael 01:12 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by My3cents:
I lurked too, for a long time
....and if I had registered as a female? I think there are more males on the forum then we preceive. You are making my point for me.
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Greenplasticwateringcans 01:56 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Did you fall asleep in the middle of my pm? Better than any sleeping medicatation you could buy over the counter... that's for sure.

I'll tell ya a story but it will most likely make you drowsy so don't operate any heavy machinery after reading this until you have had a cup of joe.

Back in the day I was on an adoption debate board with a lot of women who were trying to adopt and some who had adopted or were adopted. Open adoption was a HOT HOT topic in those days. It would cause explosive fireworks debates in a split second. Most of the pro open adoption folks were birthmothers who were denied access to their child after being told when they relinquished parental rights that they would have access to them (face to face visits promised). So the birthmothers were the walking wounded because of the betrayal.

The folks against face to face open adoption were primarily the prospective adoptive parents and some already adopters.

So we are on the boards for YEARS together and there was a lady on there who had a three year old adopted daughter AND the child's birthmother was on the board too. They had a really magical open adoption and were very entwined into each others lives. Whenever the debate threads were ready to die down the birthmother of her kid would come on and tell us how wonderful the adoptive parent was and how sad she was that there was so many of the adopters who didn't care enough about the birthmother and their child to share the child.

Well come to find out the adoptive mother made up the birthmother. She wasn't on the board... had never posted... the whole thing was a made up deal. The adoptive mother had befriended a number of the board birthmothers and gave out contact info. They had gone as far as talking on the phone many times over the years. The adoptive mother counselled a LOT of hurting women.

The adoptive mother decided to kill off the birthmother and that's when it got very very nasty. She claimed she committed suicide. The suspicious posters started digging and found out that no one by the name, age, or sex of the birthmother had died in the area they had "both" claimed to live in. At that time newspapers were starting to print obits and with a young woman such as the birthmother there was suspicion because there was NOTHING in the press and nothing in the obits.

So one of the birthmothers who the adoptive parent befriended lived really close to where the adoptive mom lived and did some online research about the names given and somehow actually found the birthmother. She found her working at a big box drug store alive and well. She had never heard of the board and was not in an open adoption. She was mentally handicapped and lost her baby by adoption because she was unable to care for her. The only part of the story that was true was she had placed her daughter for adoption to this poster. The rest was all made up.

This ruse went on for YEARS. The adoptive mom posting about OA and then soon enough the birthmother came along and verified what a great adoptive mom she was. It was impossible to even debate the adoptive mom because she had her own child's birthmother coming along saying how wonderful she was and how whatever open adoption relationship she was debating was true and easy to do.

The adoptive mom had given SO many real life details that when she killed off the birthmother in her ruse it was enough details to figure out the story wasn't real.

Now I never suspected the birthmother wasn't real. The only thing I suspected was that the stories weren't real. They just didn't make sense. I never had any non board convos with her and I debated her pretty strongly. The birthmothers were very upset because they had developed a personal relationship with her and gave her a ton of their personal stories they would want private over YEARS.

It took a long time for the people who were hoodwinked by her to get over it. It reset the board because the ultimate open adoption with verification posters were no longer there. It reset the debates because the outer limit had just been found to be not real.

I'm still friends with two of the ladies on that board. It was a trip and honestly very hurtful to the ones who spent a couple of years confiding in her and following her advice.
That is a heart breaking story

I don't even have the words to articulate how sad that is.

Not totally shocked though as I've seen a lot of appalling behavioir on adoption boards.
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nannyde 02:22 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
....and if I had registered as a female? I think there are more males on the forum then we preceive. You are making my point for me.
hmmm

you could be Mickayla and have all your sentences end with



How many versions of Michael in girl form could we come up with?
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Blackcat31 02:28 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
hmmm

you could be Mickayla and have all your sentences end with



How many versions of Michael in girl form could we come up with?
My friend from high school has Michael, Randy and Tyler. They are all girls.
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nannyde 02:31 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My friend from high school has Michael, Randy and Tyler. They are all girls.
Mickaleena pronounced:
Mick-ah-lee-nah
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Michael 02:33 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Mickaleena pronounced:
Mick-ah-lee-nah
Ok, I was hoping this line of conversation was going to change. I am ALL guy/male/opposite sex. And in Nannyde's words KNOCK IT OFF
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nannyde 02:37 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
Ok, I was hoping this line of conversation was going to change. I am ALL guy/male/opposite sex. And in Nannyde's words KNOCK IT OFF
I've seen you on videotape. You and your brother look a lot alike. Talk like the peeps in NYC to my ears.

Would it matter if you were a girl though? I don't think so. If I found out today that someone was impostering you and they were female... I would be shocked about the turn of events but I would still know that the words between us were from "you".

There would be a sense of betrayal I suppose but I would adjust and figure you had your reasons why. It still wouldn't change the "relationship" that much.
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Kaddidle Care 02:38 PM 04-02-2012
Snickers... OK now I'm showing my age. All that variety talk about Michael brought this song to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYPxqZa5CAI&feature=fvst
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Michael 02:43 PM 04-02-2012
After chatting with BlackCat about deep conversation I decided to post what I deleted late last night. Maybe this will stir up some more conversation on the matter.

--------------------------


Nannyde PM'd me a long but good reply to this thread. I don't think I explained myself well enough on what I was trying to put forth in my original opener.

You all know who I am and some may know my history but let’s, for a moment, consider that I am new member.

My name is Mickaleena and I am single with one child. I am 24 years old and I live in NYC and of Chinese decent. These are all the things I mention in my New Member thread.

How do you know I'm not this person/description? You may not care at this point but let’s say a few of you over time become good friends with Mickaleena on the forum, Facebook or twitter. You form a visual picture in your mind with some feelings and over time have added a few more features to her virtual profile. You've even told Mickaleena some personal things between women.

Would it bother you at some point if you found out Mickaleena was not that description? Would it make you pause about what you may have told her? Take it a step further. You actually have extended feelings toward Mickaleena but she may really be "your" father, mother, family member or neighbor but she never has to told you since you never have meet or talk via "normal" interactive situations.

We have become avatars in non-sensory space. We can be whoever we choose to be.

Now that would be very unsettling for me as I am sure it would be for many of you. There are things I would never say to a family member or opposite sex. I would really want that 6th sense. Or would you rather not know? Ignorance is bliss?

I am sure some of you will not comment on this thread but haven't any of you wondered about this?

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Michael 02:51 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I've seen you on videotape. You and your brother look a lot alike. Talk like the peeps in NYC to my ears.

Would it matter if you were a girl though? I don't think so. If I found out today that someone was impostering you and they were female... I would be shocked about the turn of events but I would still know that the words between us were from "you".

There would be a sense of betrayal I suppose but I would adjust and figure you had your reasons why. It still wouldn't change the "relationship" that much.
You bring up another interest point! What if someone impersonated you and said disparaging things to others. What if someone no longer talked to you and you could not figure out why. Someone could easily do damage with character/avatar assassination. You would never know that someone used your avatar to become you for a moment. There is a lot of room for mischief in this space and that 6th sense is important to nurture IMO.

There is a good book or movie in this I’m sure. I think I have a great story line for my next webisode.

Maybe:
Doppleganger
Deadenders
Hidden Messages
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Michelle 02:55 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
hmmm

you could be Mickayla and have all your sentences end with



How many versions of Michael in girl form could we come up with?
Mickey!
Mimi!
Kiki
Michelle! hehehe
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Country Kids 03:02 PM 04-02-2012
I'm confused-. Are we talking about this happening on this forum?

How would they take our avatiar and name? Wouldn't they have to have our password?

Did something happen on here that I missed? I'm thinking it would be a case of identity theft.

Also, if you think about it, on dating sights you really, really never know who you are talking to. How often to you hear that it was a kid, older person, bald, same sex, etc.
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Blackcat31 03:06 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I've seen you on videotape. You and your brother look a lot alike. Talk like the peeps in NYC to my ears.

Would it matter if you were a girl though? I don't think so. If I found out today that someone was impostering you and they were female... I would be shocked about the turn of events but I would still know that the words between us were from "you".

There would be a sense of betrayal I suppose but I would adjust and figure you had your reasons why. It still wouldn't change the "relationship" that much.
I don't think though that would be a betrayal so to speak if he NEVER said in any words whether he was male or female. If YOU assumed he was one or the other, then that part would be on you.

When I first came on this forum, I did for a little while think that Michael was a girl. NOT because of anything he said or did but because this is a daycare forum and "most" men have no interest in daycare or any type of "hen pecking chatter" as my brothers so lovingly refer to woman who chat daily.

I assumed his avatar was a photo of "her" spouse. As a matter of fact, the photo you (Michael) were using when I first came on board is a standard issue photo I think... (???) and the fact that his name was Michael did not throw me in the slightest as I have a daughter with a VERY masculine name so...

Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care:
Snickers... OK now I'm showing my age. All that variety talk about Michael brought this song to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYPxqZa5CAI&feature=fvst
Kaddidle, I clicked into that link and immediately back out again after reading he title...NO WAY I want that song stuck in my head all day!

Originally Posted by Michael:
You bring up another interest point! What if someone impersonated you and said disparaging things to others. What if someone no longer talked to you and you could not figure out why. Someone could easily do damage with character/avatar assassination. You would never know that someone used your avatar to become you for a moment. There is a lot of room for mischief in this space and that 6th sense is important nurture IMO.
There is a good book or movie in this I’m sure. I think I have a great story line for my next webisode.
Like I said to you in chat.....a person's avatar is only an image and to me, people are far more acurately represented by their words, tones and patterns than they are by their pictures. I would hope that most of my long term virtual friends would know after a bit of chit chat that I was being impersonated.

As far as needing to know who a person really is, we have to trust our instincts and our senses. We have people living double lives and fake persona's right in front of us everyday. I read a lot of true crime/serial killers type books and people who are like that are capable of fooling even their own families so really the only thing we can trust is our own gut instincts and yes, we all make mistakes and could possibly get taken for a ride or have the wool pulled over our eyes, but the trick is to not do it repeatedly.
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Michael 03:09 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I'm confused-. Are we talking about this happening on this forum?

How would they take our avatiar and name? Wouldn't they have to have our password?

Did something happen on here that I missed? I'm thinking it would be a case of identity theft.

Also, if you think about it, on dating sights you really, really never know who you are talking to. How often to you hear that it was a kid, older person, bald, same sex, etc.
Its an open topic of discussion. It is not happening here but what I am trying to make users of the internet understand, is it can happen anywhere.

If someone wanted to try it here they could say that they are registered but logged out. I think some at first would believe this and what was said could do some short term damage until the true member got hold of what was happening and did damage control. Not a big deal here but what if someone continued this play and when to other social websites and continued the damage.

Don't get me wrong, I am for an unregulated internet but these are the issues that will be used in order to get us to give up much of the freedoms we have now on the internet. I see similar movement in our political and social environment within our own nation and world.

Just having some deep discussion today.
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Kaddidle Care 03:10 PM 04-02-2012
I used to chat and play online games with someone that had what I thought was a "Male" moniker. A bunch of us thought this person was male. Well.. I met HER in person. Gorgeous Red Head! We just laughed. "I thought you were a guy!"

I guess it depends on how personal your conversations get.

I think there is a huge difference between say.. playing a character online and downright deceit.

But.. this is why we need to look over our children's shoulders from time to time so that they don't end up in a chat room with some nut job.
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Michael 03:14 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
...a person's avatar is only an image and to me, people are far more acurately represented by their words, tones and patterns than they are by their pictures. I would hope that most of my long term virtual friends would know after a bit of chit chat that I was being impersonated.
Well in here you touch on the foundations of the 6th sense. "words, tones and patterns" do not have to be of a physical nature. These can also be sensed in the virtual space and something that will evolve over time if need be for our "data" survival.
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Lucy 09:12 PM 04-02-2012
Originally Posted by Meeko:
If some of the posters here were to write something as unregistered, I may know who they are simply by the WAY they write. There are some here who have a very distinctive writing pattern. They use the same words often, spell the same word wrong all the time...that kind of thing.
Yes!! I have done that a time or two. Like you say, it's all in the use of particular words, whether they have a good vocabulary, good grammar skills, and their misspellings of certain words repeatedly. I've read some "I'm registered but signed out for privacy" postings, and thought to myself, "this is totally so-and-so".
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Lianne 05:07 AM 04-03-2012
I tend to take people online at face (heh) value but with a hint of skepticism/cynicism which is when my instincts come in. My level of skepticism or cynicism depends on how personal or sensitive the board's purpose is for me.

Take this board, for example. If someone is lying about who they say they are on here, it doesn't really make any difference to the purpose of the board which is to discuss daycare issues. If I was on a board about adoption, to use NannyDe's experience, or childhood abuse where people are sharing personal, sensitive stories, my sense of skepticism would be heightened. I'm not saying I assume any new person is automatically lying but I'm more likely to feel something is 'off' about a poster and much more likely to care if they are lying.

Lets face it, someone lying about a sensitive topic like abuse or adoption is going to be more hurtful than someone lying about running/working a daycare

If my instincts tell me something is off with a poster, I keep a mental note of it and observe them over time. Depending on the situation and how things unfold, I may bring my concerns to a mod or back away from the board quietly. I may also realize I was wrong. My instincts are pretty good. Not just in sussing out online liars, lol, but in most aspects of my life. I try hard to listen to and to respect my gut instinct in all things....except at 1am when my instincts tell me there are boogey men in my basement or under my bed
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My3cents 11:58 AM 04-03-2012
Michael,

You could still be anyone and I/we would never know it. This stuff happens in "real" life. Craigslist Killer, the husband that lives another life with another women, etc.....

It's about choice. I choose to believe, that you are who you say you are and until I know differently I choose to friend you. I do it with caution. (With everyone and for reasons personal to me) This is why I am the worst mother on the planet, because I won't allow my 14 year old daughter to have a facebook account. Sorry to many nut jobs out there.

Unless your very outspoken or maybe non caring towards this subject, I think many people like having their identity hidden behind an avatar. It gives us the freedom to say what we think with out being scrutinized as much as we would be if we told say a "real" friend

I may chat with the Flinstone Stoner here, whereas if I were out in public would stay away from that person, for anything more then a hello....even a hello is pushing it. I don't like to think of myself as racist/stereotype r but deep down within all of us that instinct is there....6th sense...yes. I believe it is. Protective instincts and choice of how I don't want to live.

I come here to make use of the wealth of information available, to escape for a bit and connect with adults, to learn share and hopefully help and maybe even make someone's day brighter by an encouraging word or two. I come here for many reasons and none of them to be deceitful or hurt another human being. Because no matter who you are on the other end your a human with feelings. I do fall short often and I am sorry if I have ever hurt someone by my little old 3cents.

Tooooooooooooooo deep for me
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My3cents 12:06 PM 04-03-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
Its an open topic of discussion. It is not happening here but what I am trying to make users of the internet understand, is it can happen anywhere.

If someone wanted to try it here they could say that they are registered but logged out. I think some at first would believe this and what was said could do some short term damage until the true member got hold of what was happening and did damage control. Not a big deal here but what if someone continued this play and when to other social websites and continued the damage.

Don't get me wrong, I am for an unregulated internet but these are the issues that will be used in order to get us to give up much of the freedoms we have now on the internet. I see similar movement in our political and social environment within our own nation and world.

Just having some deep discussion today.



Its already out there. If you commit a crime. The first thing they do is take your computer and go right through it. Once you put something out there on the internet, it never really goes away. Same with your cell phones.

Deep discussions that make me think outside of kiddo land are one of the biggest reasons I like to come to the forums. It's a social escape for me, other then kid talk.

Thanks to all of you- I appreciate each and everyone of you. If your not who you say you are.......well thanks too, thanks for taking me for a ride. I hope if your not who you are you are someone fabulous in your make believe world I hope that you don't hurt me with your pretend games. I just don't need that, enough of that in the real world-
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dEHmom 12:33 PM 04-03-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I personally enjoy the virtual world. Not because people can be someone other than who they really are, but because I truly believe that despite who people "pretend" or try to be, their real personalities come out and give them away.....at least to me.

My rational for this is that appearances create a thousand pre-conceived notions about a person loooong before they even utter a word. I may look at someone's clothing, facial expression, body language and a million other things and decide a few things based on what I see. The conclusions I come to when I "see" someone are rooted deeply into the cultures, customs and basically tied to the way I was raised and grown. They may not all be right or wrong assumptions but they are immediate knee jerk assumptions that come to mind. We ALL do this. We may not all come up with the same assumptions, but we do all make these quick little judgements when we see someone before speaking with them.

I prefer the internet/virtual world for getting to really know someone. (Like you, Michael, I tend to trust everyone unless I have reason to do so.) However, I am also able to pick up little things in a person's words that tells me ALOT about the person. I "see" things in the words they use, the sentence structure and the general feel of what they say. Yes, people can "pretend" to be something/someone they are not but it is truly a difficult thing to pull off post after post after post without giving something (even miniscule) away.

I am also drawn to certain posters for the same little reasons. The places they add smilies to, the words they choose, the things they are offended by and the things they laugh at are all indicators of commonality between myself and someone else.

I also think a person's self-esteem or self-image plays alot into how well you are able to really read another person as who they are. I don't take offense when someone says something that could be taken harshly unless they outright say somthing like, "you suck" or whatever, I assume the best in most folks and always assume most people are simply looking for something (what they are looking for is as individual as the person) but rarely is it to hurt another person or to outright lie to them or be someone they are not.

Then there is the other side of the coin (me). If I do find someone's motives to be untrue or false or even just plain mean or deceitful, I can be a very unforgiving. I tend to simply stand back and allow them the space they need to "out" themselves as I believe most people cannot continue a charade forever (unless truly psychopathic or mentally unstable in the first place) and most times will stumble or trip and give themselves away. How long that takes is also an individual thing.

I also believe I am also a pretty good judge of character and can forgive when warranted, tolerate when necessary and also be a bit vindictive and revengeful if I feel the need. Which in my opinion, vindictive and or revengeful tendencies are self-serving so it is not often I go that route. I am an optimist and believe that there is a good in everyone and that we all deserve to be trusted and perceived as having positive intentions before others become attached or muddle up in any negative or biased judgments against us.


(I don't really believe in horoscopes or those kinds of things but I am a Scorpio if that adds anything to the mix...... LOL!! )
to be honest, aside from your awesome words, this sounds like me.
i agree to everything above
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MsMe 01:03 PM 04-03-2012
I met my BF online and he turned out to be everything he said he was.

We had such great luck (and quick too! We met afterjust two weeks on the site) we encouraged his Mother to join...she has met nothing but men who are fibbing about who they are
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Michael 02:22 PM 04-03-2012
Originally Posted by Lianne:
If my instincts tell me something is off with a poster, I keep a mental note of it and observe them over time. Depending on the situation and how things unfold, I may bring my concerns to a mod or back away from the board quietly. I may also realize I was wrong. My instincts are pretty good. Not just in sussing out online liars, lol, but in most aspects of my life. I try hard to listen to and to respect my gut instinct in all things....except at 1am when my instincts tell me there are boogey men in my basement or under my bed
Why is it always a boogey men and never boogey women. No wonder guys are not welcome here? jk

Take it a step further with your analogy. If you knew someone was behind the screen but both of you did not correspond; could you sense who they were? They know you're there, you know they are there. Do you have that ability? Could you develop that ability? I think over time as a species we will "because" of the internet. Otherwise everything will have to be managed and labeled by the government as "approved". I think even twitter does that with personality brands. "so & so" is Validated.

Are we going to allow the government or other entity to tell us what is real and what's not? I say, develop those faculties ourselves.

Originally Posted by My3cents:
Michael,

You could still be anyone and I/we would never know it. This stuff happens in "real" life. Craigslist Killer, the husband that lives another life with another women, etc.....

I come here to make use of the wealth of information available, to escape for a bit and connect with adults, to learn share and hopefully help and maybe even make someone's day brighter by an encouraging word or two. I come here for many reasons and none of them to be deceitful or hurt another human being. Because no matter who you are on the other end your a human with feelings. I do fall short often and I am sorry if I have ever hurt someone by my little old 3cents.

Tooooooooooooooo deep for me
Never too deep, I enjoy discussion. Our country does not do it so well anymore because we have become so polarized with eveyone being lableed as this or that. I am both a liberal and conservative. Some will say there is no such thing.

I appreciate that you enjoy the forum but do you know why I pay for it and "man" it every day? I am not going to answer my question and it is not rhetorical in its intent. I want to know what some of you think. What does you inner sense tell you? You can log off if you want to answer this. haha


Originally Posted by My3cents:
[/b]

Its already out there. If you commit a crime. The first thing they do is take your computer and go right through it. Once you put something out there on the internet, it never really goes away. Same with your cell phones.

Deep discussions that make me think outside of kiddo land are one of the biggest reasons I like to come to the forums. It's a social escape for me, other then kid talk.

Thanks to all of you- I appreciate each and everyone of you. If your not who you say you are.......well thanks too, thanks for taking me for a ride. I hope if your not who you are you are someone fabulous in your make believe world I hope that you don't hurt me with your pretend games. I just don't need that, enough of that in the real world-
Thanks for the nice words.

There in itself you make my point. If we develop these skills within ourselves they can't take our brains and unload them, yet.

You don't even need to commit a crime for them to get access to you. Heck, in my opinion Facebook, Google and a slew of other companies are already doing it with your permission.

Read the fine lines before you sign up. Understand what they mean when they say they use "what" information to do "what". We never really take the time or "have" the time to go through it all. We think, if my friends do it, it must be ok. Really? Do you approve someone as a Facebook friend (not knowing who they are) because many of your friends have already befriended them? Be careful, corporations study very closely how to mass manage their audiences and consumers.

NannyDe writes about King Corn, Sugar Blues, and the Got Milk industries. I could even be sued for writing about it! Remember Oprah having to protect herself against the meat industry? You can move anybody one little step at a time. Before you know it, we are them.

I'm going way off chart here but I felt like writing today.
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Lucy 02:33 PM 04-03-2012
Ok, ok!!! I'm a 62 yr old MAN!! Are you satisfied???


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Mary Poppins 02:45 PM 04-03-2012
Originally Posted by Lucy:
Ok, ok!!! I'm a 62 yr old MAN!! Are you satisfied???

No, but if you come by later with some liquor and a bottle of little blue pills...

Nevermind.
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Michael 02:46 PM 04-03-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
No, but if you come by later with some liquor and a bottle of little blue pills...

Nevermind.
hahahaha now that's funny.
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Country Kids 02:50 PM 04-03-2012
Originally Posted by Lucy:
Ok, ok!!! I'm a 62 yr old MAN!! Are you satisfied???

Well that ruins it! I was going to try and do a get together sometime for all the people in our area but not sure now! Being a 62 year old man might change the atmosphere somewhat-
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Lucy 02:56 PM 04-03-2012
Originally Posted by Mary Poppins:
No, but if you come by later with some liquor and a bottle of little blue pills...

Nevermind.
LOL. And also... ewwwww!!!
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My3cents 12:41 PM 04-05-2012
Originally Posted by Michael:
Why is it always a boogey men and never boogey women. No wonder guys are not welcome here? jk

Take it a step further with your analogy. If you knew someone was behind the screen but both of you did not correspond; could you sense who they were? They know you're there, you know they are there. Do you have that ability? Could you develop that ability? I think over time as a species we will "because" of the internet. Otherwise everything will have to be managed and labeled by the government as "approved". I think even twitter does that with personality brands. "so & so" is Validated.

Are we going to allow the government or other entity to tell us what is real and what's not? I say, develop those faculties ourselves.



Never too deep, I enjoy discussion. Our country does not do it so well anymore because we have become so polarized with eveyone being lableed as this or that. I am both a liberal and conservative. Some will say there is no such thing.I like what I like so I believe you can be both and I am. I knew I liked you-6th sense?

I appreciate that you enjoy the forum but do you know why I pay for it and "man" it every day? I am not going to answer my question and it is not rhetorical in its intent. I want to know what some of you think. What does you inner sense tell you? You can log off if you want to answer this. haha I believe you have a 6thsense too.......because I already thought this question and I don't have the answer to it. I hope you will share. My guess is advertising and the trickle down effect is has toward your other interest. I would like to know the answer to your question that was stuck inside my head as a question I wanted to ask but thought maybe I would be pushing it if I did.




Thanks for the nice words.

There in itself you make my point. If we develop these skills within ourselves they can't take our brains and unload them, yet. Unless we are a phenomenon I don't think that 6th sense is fully there, otherwise we would be able to tell important things like where missing kids are and who committed the crime etc... I think the 6th sense is common sense, and luck combined, but I have had moments that I knew of certain things before they happened and don't know why- but nothing big that could be a help to others like stated above.

You don't even need to commit a crime for them to get access to you. Heck, in my opinion Facebook, Google and a slew of other companies are already doing it with your permission. I agree and how scary. Why do you think those commercials advertising cold medicines, that time of the month products are on the TV at just the right time. Your info is out there, the minute you buy something, use your phone. This is nothing new, its been going on for a long time now, dates back to the first Census

Read the fine lines before you sign up. Understand what they mean when they say they use "what" information to do "what". We never really take the time or "have" the time to go through it all. We think, if my friends do it, it must be ok. Really? Do you approve someone as a Facebook friend (not knowing who they are) because many of your friends have already befriended them? Be careful, corporations study very closely how to mass manage their audiences and consumers.we don't have the time, we don't take the time, we believe we are safe because others do it, our minds are being controlled. Read the fine print they used to say.......I have facebook friends that I don't even know, they were my farmville buddies back in the day of me playing that. I do feel in order to extend ourselves we have to take chances and have hope in other people, until they show us that we were wrong.

NannyDe writes about King Corn, Sugar Blues, and the Got Milk industries. I could even be sued for writing about it! Remember Oprah having to protect herself against the meat industry? You can move anybody one little step at a time. Before you know it, we are them. I am getting the vibe of where you are going with all this and agree- suing over coffee being too hot. $$$ is the root of all evil. I love Nan's organic ways- for me that would not go over with my family, too pricey and my hubby always tells me organic just means more bugs...I don't like bugs. For those of you that do all Organic, I applaud you. No debate here- organic is great!

I'm going way off chart here but I felt like writing today.
glad I am not the only one that does this.......after talking with the littles all day it's nice to just think like an adult for a bit

kiddo's are up and break time is over....awwwwgh.
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Tags:6th sense, creepy, internet, weirdness
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