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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Possible Child Abuse vs. Weird Things Kids Do - - ??
baybbuttrkup302 02:13 PM 11-08-2011
I have 2 sibling girls. One just turned 3 and the other just turned 4. I've had them in care since Jan of this year, so 11 months now. I see them part-time 11-12 days per month but long hours. They are both complicated children and from what mom has told me and what I observe with her, they deal with "adult problems".

A little background info. The parents are divorces, I believe just over 2 years now. The girls go one week on and one week off with each parent. They also stay with grandparents at times when mom and dad are working and I am closed. So mainly weekend days. According to mom, dad is VERY unstructured, lets them go to bed whenever they want, use binkies all day long (and professionally and personally speaking, they DONT needs them. I broke them both of using binkies in the first month they were here, and they basically did it themselves I just gave them the "help" to forget about them, KIDS ARE SMART!). Anyway, according to mom the older one gets ignored a lot by dad and the younger one gets a lot of 1:1 attention, like cuddling, hugs, etc. (I'm not so sure I believe this 100%). The older one is BOSSY when she's not in my care. I have had to set rules and boundaries and make her be a child, play, etc. But she acts sneaky and thinks I don't see some of the things she does. The younger one is a tantrum thrower and acts out because she can get away with it (Mind you both of the girls are MELLOW in my care!) They're completely different children when mom comes to pick them up or is dropping the off. I've never met dad.

What I see: Mom is ALWAYS last minute, in a rush, scatter brained, never has a solution or ideas about behavior issues that I do have with the girls. She just always says, you have such a good schedule it makes it easier for me to get them back on a schedule after they're here with you. (Routine!, ever child needs it.) Ok but that doesn't explain why the older girl shows her panties to other children (which I now require them to be in shorts and pants and they are no longer allowed to wear skirts or dresses without covers underneath.

My issues:
Other than mom being late many times and showing up 1-3 hours after she should be here and texting after she should be here saying she'll be late (very annoying since the girls are my earliest children I take 6:30am) All my other kids come at 8-9am and stay 6:30-7:30pm.

The older sister will pull the younger sisters shirt up and pinch her nipples. Ive seen her do it several times before she knows I see her. (She only does it when she thinks I can't see her or know what she's doing). The younger sister (sometimes) will giggle but most of the time she doesn't like it. And the older sister will continue. (I always remove her from the group and have quiet time by herself and tell her that is not appropriate. This also goes for the older one showing her panties to the other children and talking about it. She only does things like this when she doesn't think I can see her. The older sister generally likes to bug her younger sister (and of course the younger one feeds into it and does it back), Since they lay down in the mornings and at nap time I require them now to lay across the room from each other. When we watch a movies though I do allow them to sit or lay next to each other. (because they're sisters and they do enjoy playing together). But the older one likes to bully, push, flop on top of the younger one and even sometimes likes to pin her down. The younger one thinks it silly or funny until she gets irritated.

I talked to mom MANY times about these things and she never knows "why". OK, but as far as the pinching nipples goes she said, "oh yeah, they use to do that and I got them to stop because it's not ok but they're dad does that with them at his house." And my response was, "They can't do things like that here, it's inappropriate." OK, so she agreed but that's it. The solution to the underwear things was that I require them to wear pants, shorts, etc. Mom didn't understand this at first and said, well what if they sit sideways on the floor. I tried that and it's not a girly modesty issue, it's a behavior issue.

Weird things I've heard the girls and the mom say:

The older girl says things like, "were here all by ourselves." When I'm standing in the kitchen and she can't see me. Her mom said, "oh yeah she says that whenever she can't see anyone. She thinks she's alone." I just heard this last week.

That dad pinches their nipples and plays a lot of tickle games. That dad ignores the older sister whenever mom is around or sees them together (ie at drop-off, pick-up, etc) and gives the younger sister a lot of attention in the same scenarios. That dad has a room mate but it's non of mom's business who it is, when she asked about who he was. (Room mate is new about 4 months ago.) Mom moved and 2 weeks later dad moved.

I ask a lot of questions and have had many conversations with mom about the girls. I have this weird nagging feelings that "something" isn't right for them. I just don't really know what it is. I know there's relevant information I'm missing but I can always answer questions from other people if that helps.

I guess I would like some advice. I know kids so "funny things" but I also know kids do things that they know, learn and see.
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wdmmom 02:19 PM 11-08-2011
You could always ask DHS to do a welfare check on the girls while they are in the care of their dad.
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countrymom 02:38 PM 11-08-2011
I would get someone to check on them too, even if cas came in, they can check what is going on and talk to the girls. Something just doesn't sound right.
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baybbuttrkup302 03:10 PM 11-08-2011
That's how I feel as well. I just don't want to loose the girls as day care children. They've come a long way as far as listening, structure, etc when they're with me. But over the last few months they've started to do "weird" things.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I don't want to say "oh it's the dad!" or "oh it's the mom". The mom is all over the place as far as what I consider to be calm/stable. She's not weird or anything but she definitely does not take charge with her kids. And their dad saying "it's non of your business" about the room mate was enough of an answer for mom to not ask any more questions because she told me "her hands are tied". But in the same conversation she said she tried to get her lawyer from preventing their dad from moving far from her (closer to his job).

She also said she started talking to a behavior specialist recently about their sleeping habits. But instead of focusing on their behavior the mom said she thinks their sleeping habits are why they "act out". I don't agree with this at all. And the mom has not talked the the behavior specialist at all about the older sister or at all about the odd things I've talked to her about. She just said she wants to get their sleeping habits in order first.

This just made me irritated because she allows them to do what they want and then doesn't follow through. She also talks to them like adults. I don't like talking in front of children to parents about what "bad things" went on that day. Mom always probes! If I say anything then she'll turn around and ask the older one "oh you don't want me to know what you were doing wrong." or "oh you don't want me to tell her what you were doing yesterday." So I have stopped completely saying anything in depth (this last month and a half) unless it's a little vague like "we had some listening issues in the afternoon" or "they had a wonderful day and took a normal nap, woke up at 2:30) and will only call mom on a non-child care day or text her (due to her job) but almost always call.
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baybbuttrkup302 03:16 PM 11-08-2011
I guess mostly I don't know how to approach the situation. I do want to call child services, because even if I can't prove some kind of abuse I have an obligation if I suspect something is wrong. There are many forms of abuse even it is not physical. I DONT want mom to find out it's me who called and why. I know they are suppose to keep things confidential BUT I've been fired from a job previously from reporting child abuse where I KNEW for sure it was happening. (I worked for a family through the states children with disabilities section.) Mom found out because a police officer told her her what I had said and that I had called and was furious I didn't "talk to her first".

I should add though, it's more important that the kids are ok vs. loosing them in child care. I just want to prevent as much confrontation as possible in a smart way. Mom is emotional and I don't want that as much as I can help.
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Cat Herder 06:42 PM 11-08-2011
Originally Posted by baybbuttrkup302:
I DONT want mom to find out it's me who called and why. I know they are suppose to keep things confidential BUT I've been fired from a job previously from reporting child abuse where I KNEW for sure it was happening. (I worked for a family through the states children with disabilities section.) Mom found out because a police officer told her her what I had said and that I had called and was furious I didn't "talk to her first".
Unfortunately, as a mandated reporter, being anonymous isn't an option for childcare providers. Your former employer and your State agency should have explained that.

We do have a duty to report our suspicions. You can talk with your CCR&R Rep for some advice and assistance. They do have resources and plenty of experience in this.
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Lucy 07:47 PM 11-08-2011
Originally Posted by baybbuttrkup302:
I guess mostly I don't know how to approach the situation. I do want to call child services, because even if I can't prove some kind of abuse I have an obligation if I suspect something is wrong. There are many forms of abuse even it is not physical. I DONT want mom to find out it's me who called and why. I know they are suppose to keep things confidential BUT I've been fired from a job previously from reporting child abuse where I KNEW for sure it was happening. (I worked for a family through the states children with disabilities section.) Mom found out because a police officer told her her what I had said and that I had called and was furious I didn't "talk to her first".

I should add though, it's more important that the kids are ok vs. loosing them in child care. I just want to prevent as much confrontation as possible in a smart way. Mom is emotional and I don't want that as much as I can help.
In my state, we have a class that is a requirement to get licensed. It's called "Recognizing and Reporting Child Abuse and Neglect". It covers the signs to look for, what's normal and what's not, physical signs and behavioral signs of abuse, and then what to do about it. When you should call DHS and when you shouldn't. And what the process will be if you decide to make a report. They say if in doubt, call your licensing office. I think that's what I'd do in this case. Get the opinion of your licensor and she'll help you decide if this is a reportable case.
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misspollywog 08:38 PM 11-08-2011
Ugh. I know what sort of position you are in and this isn't easy at all.

I've had to make calls like this THREE TIMES in my life and believe me, those were the hardest calls I've ever made. The first time was for my niece who confided in me when I noticed some things going on with my sister's boyfriend and her (she was 12), then there was a 2yo I babysat who was still in diapers and it was obvious that her anatomy just wasn't right looking (to put it nicely) and then there was a little neighbor boy who rode up to me randomly on his bike and told me straight out that his uncle who was visiting was doing terribly inappropriate things with him and his brother.

It's a sickening feeling and I hate living on a planet with people who abuse children like this.

Do what your gut is telling you to do and call someone. I wish I could do it for you. (((hugs)))


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baybbuttrkup302 04:45 PM 11-11-2011
I've taken the child abuse and neglect class. It's also required here to become licensed.

I've had to call child services before on 2 occasions. Once for a family I worked for. I was 95% sure the boys I watched were being subject to either sexual abuse or seeing things they shouldn't of a sexual nature. They both had down syndrome and other things. One more severe than the other. One boy was completely non communicative and the other knew some sign language but non verbal. ...The mom found out I reported the father and she fired me. (I worked through the state but for the family.) Which I knew would happen and I said that in my phone call. I remember the lady I spoke to said, "you can't be fired for doing your job."... I just said, "well you aren't the one who has to worry about it but it will happen if she knows I called." Hey what do you know!

The second time was with my son and I didn't call child services I called the child care division who called child services (this was a year before I became a provider) and didn't know a whole lot of the business side of child care. I found out his provider was swaddling him in a giant blanket (like a burrito she said) and putting him in a play pen because he "all of a sudden" wouldn't nap for her. My son has his moments but emotionally he's always been a calm, thoughtful child and doesn't act obnoxious (unless it's for me.) He was almost 3 and sleeping in a toddler bed at home. She also wasn't allowing him to have access to fluids any time of the day and he had severe constipation issues at that time because we were trying to figure out the perfect diet for him. Fluids was one. Twice he ended up trying to poo at day care and both times he was severely constipated. She just let him cry it out and she ended up telling me (after the fact of what happened) that she just told him "to be a big boy and poop on him own." I was MAD, that's not a cry it out situation, it's called pain, and she should have called me at the first sign of him having a hard time so I could go get him and take him home. He needed help, not ignored. Especially when I forewarned her a LONG time in advance of that issue. (Sorry, it just makes me upset thinking about it!).

That lady is the reason I started my own child care business. To help families and make up for the intellectually challenged people who think they should or are good at providing for children.

Anyway, I am going to call on Monday after I am able to gather notes and things that I can use as a reference. I had these girls today and will tomorrow so I want to document more and be able to fully express what I've seen and heard effectively and thoroughly.
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Tags:abuse, acting out, child abuse, cps, laws, mandated reporter, misbehavior, reporting - suspected abuse
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