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  #1  
Old 01-02-2011, 01:04 PM
momatheart
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Default Child's Behavior At Pick Up

When the child's behavior is wild or they don't listen to their mom, or they do something mean to another child (eg. kick a friend or mess up what their friend is playing with) why do they do this when it is time to leave? Or they show this behavior only infront of their parents?

I have said that my rules still apply when mom is here and that has toned it down some what but the child needs reminders that this behavior is NOT ok.

Why or what causes a child to behave like this? Is it a parenting issue?

I have one child in my care who does this. I also know of another family who has a child who behaves horribly when mom is in the room. This child is not in my care.
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2011, 02:13 PM
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nannyde nannyde is offline
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I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act differently to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not seize control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allowing the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:30 PM
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Michael Michael is online now
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A few more earlier threads on Pick Up Behaviour: http://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.ph...ck+up+behavior

I love the Machiavelli in your nannyde: "When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours." haha

Nice post.

Last edited by Michael; 01-02-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:38 PM
momatheart
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I like that "Changing of the Guard". Thanks.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:59 PM
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Unbelievable, blame the parent for not "parenting". Obviously you have a child that does not have ADHD or some other type of issue that makes transitioning extremely difficult for some children. Parents have enough trouble in this day and age with all of the guilt that is thrown their way, not being tough enough, being too tough etc. It takes a village to raise a child, when you see a parent struggle, step in and help, don't just stand there judging.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Unbelievable, blame the parent for not "parenting". Obviously you have a child that does not have ADHD or some other type of issue that makes transitioning extremely difficult for some children. Parents have enough trouble in this day and age with all of the guilt that is thrown their way, not being tough enough, being too tough etc. It takes a village to raise a child, when you see a parent struggle, step in and help, don't just stand there judging.
For some situations, I'm sure that can be the case. From my own experience, what Nanny has said is spot on. I have used her technique and it worked PERFECTLY. What a change to drop off/pick up behavior! Any time they are with their parent, they rule the roost (it's extremely obvious). When they are in MY home, they behave perfectly. I believe in my day to day activities AND implementing this technique I AM helping the child and the parents. It is not wrong of me to not permit this behavior in my home when they can do it perfectly fine when their parents are not around.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:31 PM
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hwichlaz hwichlaz is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Unbelievable, blame the parent for not "parenting". Obviously you have a child that does not have ADHD or some other type of issue that makes transitioning extremely difficult for some children. Parents have enough trouble in this day and age with all of the guilt that is thrown their way, not being tough enough, being too tough etc. It takes a village to raise a child, when you see a parent struggle, step in and help, don't just stand there judging.
We're seeing it with our own eyes. Children that are perfectly capable of behaving for us turning into beasts when mom or dad arrives. Transitions are hard, yes. But we can train them to handle them if we don't coddle.
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:09 PM
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Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Unbelievable, blame the parent for not "parenting". Obviously you have a child that does not have ADHD or some other type of issue that makes transitioning extremely difficult for some children. Parents have enough trouble in this day and age with all of the guilt that is thrown their way, not being tough enough, being too tough etc. It takes a village to raise a child, when you see a parent struggle, step in and help, don't just stand there judging.
Sorry, I've seen the village so count me out.

Also, there is a big difference between a parent struggling and a parent being lazy.

It's also a good rule of thumb to never hang your success or failure on the opinions and judgements of others.

Why give anyone the power to effect you that way?

Opinions don't define your reality and judgements are a confession of character but neither make me who I am or force me to act/behave in a certain way. Knowing and accepting that makes for a much happy life.

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Old 07-27-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Sorry, I've seen the village so count me out.

Also, there is a big difference between a parent struggling and a parent being lazy.

It's also a good rule of thumb to never hang your success or failure on the opinions and judgements of others.

Why give anyone the power to effect you that way?

Opinions don't define your reality and judgements are a confession of character but neither make me who I am or force me to act/behave in a certain way. Knowing and accepting that makes for a much happy life.

I wish I had your way with words!
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Unbelievable, blame the parent for not "parenting". Obviously you have a child that does not have ADHD or some other type of issue that makes transitioning extremely difficult for some children. Parents have enough trouble in this day and age with all of the guilt that is thrown their way, not being tough enough, being too tough etc. It takes a village to raise a child, when you see a parent struggle, step in and help, don't just stand there judging.
I have had children in care who ARE..truly.... ADHD.

I have had far more children in care who according to their parents are ADHD and yet behave perfectly well for me. It's just easier for a parent to throw "ADHD" around like it's an excuse... than to actually parent. Children can't be perfectly well behaved here and suddenly become ADHD at home. Sorry. Doesn't work that way.

Parents of true ADHD kids have their hands full and my heart aches for the exhausting labor of love it is. It annoys me no end when children are labelled ADHD because it's easier for mom to excuse her lack of parenting.
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Unbelievable, blame the parent for not "parenting". Obviously you have a child that does not have ADHD or some other type of issue that makes transitioning extremely difficult for some children. Parents have enough trouble in this day and age with all of the guilt that is thrown their way, not being tough enough, being too tough etc. It takes a village to raise a child, when you see a parent struggle, step in and help, don't just stand there judging.
I'm another vote for "99% of the time, it's the parent's lack of parenting". I've been doing this for 5 years. I feel so bad for my new self back then.. Lol. My 3rd daycare child, I had a similar situation. The kid would go crazy at pickup time! He would throw large toys across the room, almost hitting the other children! He would start the day throwing a fit at drop off (candy bar in hand because Dad bribed him to behave enough to get up and ready in the morning), calm down within an hour and behave well all day, then the minute Mom picked up, he would start acting up. I hadn't found this board and the experience from these providers yet, so I tolerated a certain amount. The day he threw the large toy was the day I stepped in and parented FOR Mom.

I picked him up off the floor, walked him to the door, opened it, handed his coat to Mom and said "have a good night!" He actually attached himself to the pole on my front porch and they stood out there for 10 minutes with her trying to talk him down and bribe him.... As I said, he would start the day trying to act up with me and I just didn't tolerate it, so it wasn't an issue of him not being able to help it. It was an issue of him lacking an authority figure. I've had 2 of those Moms who say "I just don't know how you get him to mind" and my response is "be consistent and let them know what your expect."
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Unbelievable, blame the parent for not "parenting". Obviously you have a child that does not have ADHD or some other type of issue that makes transitioning extremely difficult for some children. Parents have enough trouble in this day and age with all of the guilt that is thrown their way, not being tough enough, being too tough etc. It takes a village to raise a child, when you see a parent struggle, step in and help, don't just stand there judging.
I'm both a provider and a parent with a child (now grown) who has autism and adhd. When my ds was young, he had a great deal of trouble with transition times. His diagnosis wasn't used as an excuse for poor behavior; it was used to help me figure out what was causing the behavior and how best to help him improve it. Believe me when I say I know how it feels to be judged. You can't win no matter what you do so you just have to decide what is best for you and your family and ignore people who try to judge you.

Because I know how it feels to be judged as a parent, I try not to judge the parents of the kids in my care but it's not always easy. I've been a day care provider for over 20 years and have to say that based on those years of experience, what Nannyde wrote is spot on. There are exceptions to every rule but for the most part, the kids who misbehave the most, especially at drop off and pick up times, are the kids (and parents) she described - to a tee! I said to my most recent challenging kid, "That behavior doesn't work at my house." He responded, "Well, it does at mine." I know. We wouldn't be having the problems we're having if it didn't!
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