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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Does This Sound Crazy Or Brilliant?
Fiddlesticks 07:20 AM 08-26-2015
I have been a home daycare provider for 20+ years, and I have always followed a pretty typical schedule: 8 am breakfast, free play, preschool time, outdoor time, 11:30 lunch, nap from 12/12:30-3:00, 3:00 snack, outdoor time until pick up.

But the last few years the kids come to me SO.TIRED. they are cranky and uncooperative (for one if he sits still for two minutes he falls asleep). Lately, it is all I can do to get them to lunch time so we can have nap, lunch has been creeping earlier and earlier to where we are now eating at 11 and some of the children are falling asleep during that.

So I have been kicking around the idea of turning my schedule upside down. The children will wait for breakfast until 9 (they all have something on the way over so breakfast has typically been poorly eaten so this change should not be an issue) and then go down for nap at 10, lunch will be served at 1:00 and then we will have preschool time, snack will move back to 3:30 then outdoors. The children should go home a little less hungry and maybe more ready for bed at the 6:30-7 parents these days seem to insist on (which leads to a 5 am wake up time and very tired kids for me…) I think it would work REALLY well for the littles transitioning to one nap, and for the infants, they would likely be soundly asleep for their second nap during our preschool time, which is another win.

Is this crazy? Brilliant? Has anyone tried this?
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mamamanda 07:34 AM 08-26-2015
If your kids would go down that early I think it would be awesome. I've got a couple that mom drags out of bed at 8:00 & carries them to the car to come so they'd never nap that early, but if yours will I'd go for it! I would love that schedule if my kids were up for it.
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Blackcat31 07:39 AM 08-26-2015
Originally Posted by Fiddlesticks:
I have been a home daycare provider for 20+ years, and I have always followed a pretty typical schedule: 8 am breakfast, free play, preschool time, outdoor time, 11:30 lunch, nap from 12/12:30-3:00, 3:00 snack, outdoor time until pick up.

But the last few years the kids come to me SO.TIRED. they are cranky and uncooperative (for one if he sits still for two minutes he falls asleep). Lately, it is all I can do to get them to lunch time so we can have nap, lunch has been creeping earlier and earlier to where we are now eating at 11 and some of the children are falling asleep during that.

So I have been kicking around the idea of turning my schedule upside down. The children will wait for breakfast until 9 (they all have something on the way over so breakfast has typically been poorly eaten so this change should not be an issue) and then go down for nap at 10, lunch will be served at 1:00 and then we will have preschool time, snack will move back to 3:30 then outdoors. The children should go home a little less hungry and maybe more ready for bed at the 6:30-7 parents these days seem to insist on (which leads to a 5 am wake up time and very tired kids for me…) I think it would work REALLY well for the littles transitioning to one nap, and for the infants, they would likely be soundly asleep for their second nap during our preschool time, which is another win.

Is this crazy? Brilliant? Has anyone tried this?
That is pretty much how I run my day (no breakfast until 9am) but I did not swap nap and lunch time. Instead our morning time (before 9am) is quiet time for those that need it or free play for those that don't.

If someone is tired and cranky when they arrive, they go to the quiet room/area and lay down until they are either ready to join the others or until breakfast at 9am. I have a couple (one preschooler and one toddler) that sleep in the mornings every single day and it seems to make a difference as the days when I haven't had them go back down (for whatever reasons) have been awful so now I make a conscious effort to have those that need it go lay down.

Lunch is still at 11:30 and rest time is from 12:30-3:00 pm.

So not exactly like you were thinking of doing but close and so far it works well for me so HTH
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bklsmum 07:40 AM 08-26-2015
I have been thinking about doing that with mine once the colder weather comes because it is usually warmer later in the day. I think you should go for it and let us know how it works out.
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Fiddlesticks 08:04 AM 08-26-2015
I don't even open until 7, and most children arrive between 7:30 and 8, I don't feel like they should be THIS tired so early, but it has been a nightmare lately. All of the parents try to put the kids to bed between 6:30 and 7 (which....what? but not my business...) and they say the kids were up and down all night and up for good between 5 and 5:30. I have suggested multiple times that the children probably are not ready for bed at 6:30, but it is not changing so I guess I need to change.

I am definitely going to give it a try when the school agers go back to school. Selfishly, I prefer the busy morning/quick afternoon that the later nap gives me, but my patience for whiny, unacceptable behavior has reached its end and I need to do something different.

Probably what will happen is the children will now be ready for an early bedtime, and ready to participate in the mornings, and nap time will become a struggle instead of the piece of cake it is now!
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Annalee 08:58 AM 08-26-2015
I have breakfast at 7:30....done by 8:00. Lunch at 10:30 and nap at 11:30....all are asleep by 12:00 and get up at 2:00. Snack at 2:15....
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laundrymom 09:08 AM 08-26-2015
My worry would be, what happens when this group ages out? Are you wanting to go back to typical schedule? Or stay on this.
Personally, I adjust the schedule for myself. I tweek daily to meet needs but the flopped schedule would have to work for me for it to be considered here I do snack between 9&930
Lunch between 11&1230
And a supper at 4:05.

They seem to not be hungry as much as before and I don't waste food for breakfasts. I serve milk and fruit/cereal/cheese or yogurt for what I claim as snack on FP but we call it bfast for the kids.
Then lunch is served when they seem ready for it. If they're playing well and not fighting I hold it to 1230.
I then serve a single helping meal with all dinner meal components at 4:05.
The kids go home with more in their bellies, giving mom or dad more time to get dinner for them.
It works for us.
I'm interested in how this works out for you should you choose to flip your day. I am curious how the parent reaction goes. Keep us updated.
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daycarediva 09:13 AM 08-26-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
That is pretty much how I run my day (no breakfast until 9am) but I did not swap nap and lunch time. Instead our morning time (before 9am) is quiet time for those that need it or free play for those that don't.

If someone is tired and cranky when they arrive, they go to the quiet room/area and lay down until they are either ready to join the others or until breakfast at 9am. I have a couple (one preschooler and one toddler) that sleep in the mornings every single day and it seems to make a difference as the days when I haven't had them go back down (for whatever reasons) have been awful so now I make a conscious effort to have those that need it go lay down.

Lunch is still at 11:30 and rest time is from 12:30-3:00 pm.

So not exactly like you were thinking of doing but close and so far it works well for me so HTH
same schedule pretty much. I have two that come and lay down/fall asleep until breakfast. If they're exhausted (and they are most days) I do stories during lunch and by 12-12:15 they're all on mats and mostly asleep.
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littletots 09:27 AM 08-26-2015
Usda food program states meals no closer than 2hrs, no greater than 3 hrs. Your breakfast lunch would fall outside guidelines. If not on program and don't need to follow guidelines great. Totally give it a try. I would!
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Play Care 10:06 AM 08-26-2015
Originally Posted by littletots:
Usda food program states meals no closer than 2hrs, no greater than 3 hrs. Your breakfast lunch would fall outside guidelines. If not on program and don't need to follow guidelines great. Totally give it a try. I would!
I asked my program rep this and she said we had no rules about times between meals.
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CraftyMom 10:10 AM 08-26-2015
I would try it and see how it goes
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Fiddlesticks 10:16 AM 08-26-2015
My only requirements are that I offer food every four hours in care. If I serve their snack at 9:30 instead I would have the same gap I currently have.

As far as flipping this schedule just for this group... Well, I kind of would be, but when they age out it is not so much of a concern because the littles would already be used to the schedule as they grow. The more I think about it the more heavenly it sounds to make lunch in peace while they are napping! Plus, I almost always have a parent get here a little early while I am getting everyone up and changing diapers, it seems like such a hectic end of nap time, if nap ended in the middle of the day that whole wake up thing would be more leisurely (I am always waking at least one child at 3).

I mentioned this in passing to one dcm who has a 4 yo and a 15 mo and she thought it would be awesome. At home her 15 mo goes down for nap at 10 and sleeps until 2!! Here I have been trying to get her down to one nap but she cannot make it until after lunch.
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Fiddlesticks 10:18 AM 08-26-2015
I am going to start it the day after Labor Day (school starts!!) and I will let you all know how it goes.
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Play Care 10:55 AM 08-26-2015
I'll be honest, when I see a need for a schedule change I just do it. I don't tell the parents - even on my posted schedule it says it big letters at the bottom "schedule subject to change without notice"

People don't like change and parents are no exception I find when I tell them about minor things before hand they feel as though they have a say

So if you feel the need to make changes, do it! I'm all about anything that makes my day run more smoothly
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Annalee 11:00 AM 08-26-2015
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I'll be honest, when I see a need for a schedule change I just do it. I don't tell the parents - even on my posted schedule it says it big letters at the bottom "schedule subject to change without notice"

People don't like change and parents are no exception I find when I tell them about minor things before hand they feel as though they have a say

So if you feel the need to make changes, do it! I'm all about the hat makes my day run more smoothly
I agree with this, my times in pp are ballpark figures....if the kids are extra tired like on Mondays we may nap earlier or even longer....I don't discuss this with parents....IT IS MY DAYCARE
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Fiddlesticks 11:35 AM 08-26-2015
I thought I would inform the parents of the schedule change after two weeks or so, assuming it works out.
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crazydaycarelady 11:35 AM 08-26-2015
If that works better for your group then I would do it. The parents would probably like it too because the kids will most likely go to bed better.
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nannyde 11:44 AM 08-26-2015
I would put them to bed when they arrive so they can finish their nights sleep and then get them up for breakfast at nine.

Nap two hours in the afternoon.

When parents complain about them being up in the middle of the night and early morning, tell them they need at least five WAKING hours a day with their parents. If they are going to put them yo bed without giving them home awake time they will be up in the night and up really early.

The only way to deal with it is bedtime around nine pm, lots of outdoor time in the evening, a good healthy from scratch supper, a good bedtime routine of bath, books, and snuggles.

They have to actually parent at night. If they don't, the kids will force them to by being up during the time they want them to sleep.
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racemom 06:16 PM 08-26-2015
If I were you I would try it! It sounds like you have figured out how to make it work. That is,what is great about your position you can,so what is best for you and your dcks.
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permanentvacation 04:52 AM 08-27-2015
I've changed my schedule a few times based on the majority of the group's needs. I've put everyone back to bed as soon as they get here, I've moved my nap time to various times (depending on each group of kids), I've had 3 hour naps and I've had 1 hour naps.

Yes, I would suggest that you do what's best for your kids. If you can figure out a routine/schedule that fits their needs better than the one you typically have, then, yes, I think you should adjust your schedule for them.
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284878 07:00 AM 08-27-2015
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
My worry would be, what happens when this group ages out? Are you wanting to go back to typical schedule? Or stay on this.
Personally, I adjust the schedule for myself. I tweek daily to meet needs but the flopped schedule would have to work for me for it to be considered here I do snack between 9&930
Lunch between 11&1230
And a supper at 4:05.

They seem to not be hungry as much as before and I don't waste food for breakfasts. I serve milk and fruit/cereal/cheese or yogurt for what I claim as snack on FP but we call it bfast for the kids.
Then lunch is served when they seem ready for it. If they're playing well and not fighting I hold it to 1230.
I then serve a single helping meal with all dinner meal components at 4:05.
The kids go home with more in their bellies, giving mom or dad more time to get dinner for them.
It works for us.
I'm interested in how this works out for you should you choose to flip your day. I am curious how the parent reaction goes. Keep us updated.
Why not claim it as breakfast? You have all the components of a breakfast, you get more back for breakfast then snack. I do the same thing. I serve breakfast but call it snack. 2 of my odck eat breakfast at home when they get up and 2 ydck do not. So I serve breakfast with protein and they (odck) call it a snack. As long as I am feeding them what they need and not candy, who cares if I add protein.
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Former Teacher 07:19 PM 08-27-2015
Originally Posted by Fiddlesticks:
I have been a home daycare provider for 20+ years, and I have always followed a pretty typical schedule: 8 am breakfast, free play, preschool time, outdoor time, 11:30 lunch, nap from 12/12:30-3:00, 3:00 snack, outdoor time until pick up.

But the last few years the kids come to me SO.TIRED. they are cranky and uncooperative (for one if he sits still for two minutes he falls asleep). Lately, it is all I can do to get them to lunch time so we can have nap, lunch has been creeping earlier and earlier to where we are now eating at 11 and some of the children are falling asleep during that.

So I have been kicking around the idea of turning my schedule upside down. The children will wait for breakfast until 9 (they all have something on the way over so breakfast has typically been poorly eaten so this change should not be an issue) and then go down for nap at 10, lunch will be served at 1:00 and then we will have preschool time, snack will move back to 3:30 then outdoors. The children should go home a little less hungry and maybe more ready for bed at the 6:30-7 parents these days seem to insist on (which leads to a 5 am wake up time and very tired kids for me…) I think it would work REALLY well for the littles transitioning to one nap, and for the infants, they would likely be soundly asleep for their second nap during our preschool time, which is another win.

Is this crazy? Brilliant? Has anyone tried this?

I could be wrong, and things might be different in your state, but in TX, lunch must be BEFORE nap.


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Rockgirl 06:04 AM 08-28-2015
Originally Posted by Former Teacher:
I could be wrong, and things might be different in your state, but in TX, lunch must be BEFORE nap.

I'm not finding this in the standards. Not arguing, I just can't find it.
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Fiddlesticks 06:07 AM 10-23-2015
We have been following this new schedule for about 6 weeks now, and I LOVE it. The children are much better behaved, I am way less stressed and enjoying the children more now. Before it seemed it was all I could do to get through lunch time, then I would collapse on the couch during nap time. But now we have a pleasant morning, a hearty breakfast, and during nap I get things done. Then they get up for lunch and we have a wonderful afternoon that FLIES by. The children take a little longer to fall asleep than when they had the later nap, and sleep a little less also, but it is enough to make them rested and cooperative. I suspect they are going to bed better for their parents as well.

The best part is that I am guaranteed ALL of the children laying down at the same time for at least a little while everyday, because the older children are going down at the same time as the morning nap time for the little ones, which always tended to be their longer nap, so now if the littles don't take a second nap it doesn't bother me, because I already had my little break.

It also feels like we have more uninterrupted time for projects, because no on needs to eat or nap during circle time/project time. So we have a solid 2 hour block where everyone is rested, full, and happy. Heaven.
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Fiddlesticks 06:16 AM 10-23-2015
Originally Posted by Former Teacher:
I could be wrong, and things might be different in your state, but in TX, lunch must be BEFORE nap.

Well, what about the little ones who take a morning and afternoon nap? The morning nap would be before lunch. Our state rules don't mention meal scheduling other than to say I MUST offer them food every four hours they are in care. Both my licensor and food program rep have been here since the schedule change, during the new nap time, and were fine with it, so it must be one of those state by state issues.
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Preschool/daycare teacher 06:20 AM 10-23-2015
That's great! Thanks for the update : )
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Blackcat31 07:11 AM 10-23-2015
Originally Posted by Fiddlesticks:
Well, what about the little ones who take a morning and afternoon nap? The morning nap would be before lunch. Our state rules don't mention meal scheduling other than to say I MUST offer them food every four hours they are in care. Both my licensor and food program rep have been here since the schedule change, during the new nap time, and were fine with it, so it must be one of those state by state issues.
I'm in MN too and there is NO rule saying when we are to serve lunch or have nap.

Thankfully, our state is still one that allows providers to use common sense when implementing daily rules and routines.
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