Im a member but logged out just in case, as this is a touchy subject. Sorry but this is looooong!

Dcb is 4.5 and started with me just under a year ago. At the time he was transitioning from a montessori school and mom was expecting second child. There were some red flags at interview (he was very boisterous and they mentioned he had cried every day at drop off at previous school). Every day for 3 years! I had just opened up and accepted them despite this as I wanted to fill the two spots. I have worked with children with emotional behavioural difficulties so a boy with a bit of energy didn't bother me and I figured the crying was related to the hour drive they had to the previous school.

From the start he has been a very difficult child to be around. On a daily basis he is exhausting: Every. Tiny. Little. Thing results in a huge drama and debate. He needs to be the winner at everything, the first one to sit down, first to the door etc etc. I do not allow this kind of competition and usually make him wait until last if he aggressively pushes etc. this sometimes leads to 20 minute screaming sessions.

I tried giving him extra responsibility. Help prepare snack, be a good role model etc but then he flips out if anyone else is ever given attention so I had to stop that way of dealing with him. At the moment, he spends most of the day by my side because he is so aggressive and unkind to the little ones. He is the oldest in the group by over a year.

I have always been firm but fair and consistent in my approach but nothing ever makes a difference to his behaviour.

But this is not why I need to term! I can deal with behaviour like this, remain patient and wait it out until he goes to K. The bigger issue is pick up

To put it lightly, at least once a week, when mom walks in the door it's like a bomb exploded in the room! He screams, cries, kicks, punches and pushes his mom. Once, when she was holding the baby he walked up several stairs and launched a flying kick at her! She did nothing
Oh yeah! There's a baby in the mix too - he is often forgotten about because its all about the older kid!

On one occasion when we were outside playing, he ran to the outside gate, which is out of sight, and let my two year old out on to the street while I was distracted helping mom with the baby. When I told him this was unacceptable, he hit and kicked me in front of mom. Mom blamed me for over reacting.

Pick up usually takes about 20 minutes as there is always some issue that he is upset about. One day in the summer, pick up took 45 minutes and mom was holding her 25lb baby the whole time!

I have met with mom after hours and tried to talk through steps that we can take to help make pick up easier but she has been resistant to every single suggestion. I suggested bringing a stroller for baby so that she has hands free for 4 year old. Her response, baby cries in the stroller and she ends up carrying both children and pushing the empty stroller! I suggested I will get kiddos ready to leave for when she arrives. Her response, I don't want them getting too hot in their coats if I'm two minutes past pick up time!

Most of this is the tip of the ice berg. I'm exhausted! But I hate to give up on a child who just needs guidance and boundaries.

Yesterday, was the last straw. I was in preschool room with 4 year old dcb when mom arrived. All seemed ok so I got baby from the other room and passed him over. Then left to go tend to children left in the baby room. I assumed they had left, but 15 minutes later heard almighty screaming coming from the preschool room. When I went back in to see what was going on, 4 year old dcb was screaming in the doorway at mom. 11 month old dcb was left to wander around the preschool room unattended and completely unsafe. I picked baby up and held him until dad arrived to help mom get them out of the house.

I messaged parents today, reiterating that they must bring a stroller for baby so that he is safe while they deal with dcb. Again they resisted!

I have been reluctant to term for several reasons. One, This is a new business and terming contracts is not something I'm familiar with. Two, I love the baby. He is an absolute joy! Three, its tough to lose two sets of fees (although I have a wait list so think I could fill pretty quickly). Finally, I'm worried about word getting around that I couldn't 'cope' with a difficult child.

I think it's time to term but I would love to hear others' opinions. If you wouldn't term, why not? And what would you do differently to help this child cope with his extreme emotions?

If I do term,how do I do that? I'm closed Monday and I don't want this hanging over me all weekend. Do I hand them a letter on Tuesday or is it ok to email over the weekend? How do I word the term without laying blame? My contract states I can term for any reason if I give 4 weeks notice so I could just term without explanation but this seems unfair.

Sorry this was soooo long but I really needed to share what has been going on with people who understand. I also feel a need to prove that I don't give up on kids easily, which I'm realizing can be a weakness in this business

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Oh my! I honestly can't believe you have dealt with this for as long as you have...I wouldn't have given this more than 2-4 weeks tops! Please term. This mom is not even willing to work with you and has excuses for everything. Everything you have described is beyond ridiculous. My jaw just dropped reading this...I always have termed on a Friday and give 2 weeks notice but in your case I guess you could do it Tuesday...others might have better advice regarding that (I haven't had a lot of terms). I feel bad for you that the notice is 4 weeks, that will be a long wait for the final day

I'm sure you will get a lot more advice but I just wanted to say please don't feel bad over terming this family, no way in a million years would I put up with that kind of behavior!

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In my opinion, you're not terming because you can't handle a difficult child. You're terming because the parents are unwilling to work with you and it's creating a dangerous environment.

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I do believe you should term for multiple reasons. You have put a great deal of effort into trying to make it all work and it is not. The parents are unwilling to bend and work with you on this. The safety of the other children and yourself are at risk. Even if he does not do harm to the other children, having to watch such violence at pick up daily and listening to his outbursts daily are not good for them. Other parents may pull if they know this is what their kids are exposed to and that they are at risk. I would rather word got out that you took measures to protect the well being of all the children in care, rather than have an incident take place where word got out that you continued to keep a child that was an excessive risk to the group.

And last but not least, how is this impacting YOU and your family. It has to be a crazy stressful environment to face each week.

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Do you want their money? Do you want their money for a certain amount of time?

This is the ONLY question you need to ask yourself.

The concern about any other consequence is only in your mind. It's not real. You may have a call to licensing if you upset them but if you think they could go that route a pre term call to licensing to tell them of this dangerous situation should soften the blow of an unanounced visit.

This family is very very dangerous. Your chances of a serious injury on your property is through the ROOF! Get them off of your property asap. I wouldn't give notice.

I don't know of any business that would host this Mother's horrible disrespectful and dismissive behavior. She is putting you and your family at risk. She needs to take her dog and pony show somewhere else.

The kid... well he does cuz he can. The Mom is the one who will rock your world and not give a flip what it does to you, your kids, your home, your career, OR your freedom.

Call them and tell them you are DONE. Today!

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I hate terminating a family!! In my opinion terminating is your last option since the mom is not willing to working with you on the issues. I only have 2 week termination notice in my contract. If I am terming or if the family is terming it causes stress and awkwardness until they leave. I personally hate it! If I am the one terminating (depending on the situation) I will tell them that if they find someone else before the 2 weeks is over you are able to legally break the contract early.

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take this opportunity to terms asap, immediate termination is needed, you have already gave them plenty of chances, this parents are irresponsible, they need to go away, you deserve better, they have no respect for you, I know you love the little one, but think of yourself first, always...I would send an email terminating at will , no long explanation needed, they already know why....just make it short and to the point.
dear so and so
as of today I will no longer be able to care for your children.
you have until (one week) to pick up their belongings.

providerXX

Do no ask their opinion or negotiate, just stick to your decision , its final,this little boy has absolutely no boundaries and the parents have no guts, your peace of mind and health is Priceless.

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Yeah this except I don't agree that the parents don't have guts. They are very aggressive and unsafe.

The Mom watched her son hit and kick a full grown adult WOMAN and blamed the woman for her over reaction. That is extremely aggressive. It is saying you MUST be hurt by MY son if he wants to hurt you. I will bless it and tell you to get over your feelings about it if you want my money.

That power comes from one source: the power of money. This Mom isn't the first person to expect another human being to take abuse for money.

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I urge you to term effective immediately! This DCM has proven to be unwilling to work with you, and even more importantly first to place blame on you for things that are under her control (letting DCB allow you get child outside). You feel bad terming, but consider what would happen if someone is hurt due to this boys behavior and you could, at worse case scenario, lose your business. Write an email, state the reasons you are terming (unwillingness to keep baby DCB safe at PUs and DOs, unsafe behaviors of DCB, ect. And term effective immediately. No, it won't be pretty and she will probably turn you into licensing- but I think it would be that way no matter what. You need to look out for you, your business, your other daycare families, and your own family and term immediately!!
to you for trying so long, and I know you will miss the baby, but it is NOT worth your business and livelihood! Good luck

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I concur.

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As far as not looking like a good provider because you couldn't handle a difficult child that is faulty thinking. Have you considered that if the family keeps getting termed then they may finally be forced to do something about their situation? So, you terming, may actually be getting that child a step closer to some help. Keeping him makes it looks like you condone the family's dysfunction.

We had a child who needed more help then we could give in a preschool where I worked. We could all tell he needed professional help but family was in denial. The director wanted to keep him because she thought it would look like we couldn't handle him. One of our older and more wise teachers at the time said "Well just wait until he gets in kindergarten. They won't put up with this in a public school. They will require that he be tested and they will have the means to get him tested." The director finally did term. I personally think she did the child a favor.

Also, how bad would you feel (not to mention be in legal trouble) if he hurt another child?

My contract says nothing about terming except that if someone leaves please give me as much notice as possible as a courtesy. If there comes a time when I want a family gone, I want to have the option of having them gone tomorrow not two weeks or longer away.

Laurel

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Laurel

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when you can't do it no more and no one wants to help you then its time to pass them along. Eventually the parents will see that they have created a monster. Don't feel bad to term, he was already terminated from another place for the same behavior.

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As far as I know he wasn't terminated from his previous school. His parents pulled him out because it was too far and he would cry at drop off. They are really happy here because he no longer cries at drop off and it doesn't seem to bother them when he is aggressive at pickup.

Thank you everyone for your responses. You gave me the courage to finally make the decision. I will hand DCD a term letter at drop off on Tuesday, with 4 weeks notice. I did implement a new behaviour policy a couple of months ago when his behaviour escalated which states that I can term with immediate effect. So,I will put something in the letter that if there is one more violent outburst in that 4 week period, he will not be able to return the next day.

I did refer them to a behaviour therapist a few weeks ago so they are aware that he needs more help than I can give him. Unfortunately, they have not shared what the therapist suggested with me. They also seem to be dismissing the therapist already, saying she wasn't very helpful. Maybe terming will finally help them to take this seriously.

I know most people have agreed that I should term immediately but this feels like the right thing for me to do.

I'm sad that it has come to this but it's the best thing for all concerned.

It hadn't occurred to me that they may go to licensing. What grounds do they have for compliant?

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If you truly need the money and absolutely can't afford to term, then you need to put your foot down and tell mom how things are going to be in the future.

"Your children will be ready to go at XXX time. I will hand baby to you, and you can take him to the car. Then, you may come back and I will hand "brat" to you, and you can take him to the car. There will be no more extended pick ups. Your children will be handed to you on the front steps, NOT indoors. Please don't even come in the door at pick up time, because your son is trying to grab power from the adults here, and I am no longer willing to tolerate this behavior. As much as I would like to keep you as a client, I am not longer willing to allow your child the power to tantrum and ruin everyone's day. If this is acceptable to you, please sign here:_____. If this is not acceptable to you, then consider this letter to be your notice of immediate termination from my program."

Honestly, I would give a family a chance to adhere to some reasonable rules (which you have already done) before terming. Since parents are resistant to respecting you and your business, I think it's time to term, myself. Mom is disrespectful, child is out-of-control, and Mom is not at all interested in working on it. I would not have taken it for this long, and I would not take it for a moment longer.

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I'm not worried so much about the money as I'm confident I can fill the spots pretty quickly. Daycare is in high demand in my neighbourhood.

I have tried something similar to what you have suggested but mom just never sticks to anything. And to be honest,I would be worried about what dcb is doing back in the house while I'm handing over baby. He also is very aggressive if baby is picked up first, he always HAS to be FIRST! Also, they only live a half a block away so walk to and from daycare. On at least two occasions he has run off into the street while mom is getting baby ready.

Thank you for the suggestion and I wish I had the motivation to try one more thing but I'm ready to move on and terminate the contract.


Aargh! This part of the business is so hard

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Since you have made the decision to term (and good for you-it sounds like the right thing to do), I would still suggest you put your foot down and stop letting it happen. Stop letting mom in your home, and have the kids ready at the front door. If behaviors still occur, gently push the child out the door and close it. Make it HER problem, not yours.

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They don't need to have grounds for anything.


A termed parent can make up ANYTHING they want and the simple reporting of that lie would warrant a visit/investigation into you and your program.

ALWAYS be pro-active when terming a family. Call your licensor and tell her exactly what you have told us and that you are terming.

Then when the parent does decide to call and report you, you have already proven that it was in retaliation to the termination.


HTH

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Dear ____________,

This is your formal immediate termination notice. I am unable to keep the children (names) after (whatever date). The reason for termination is that I feel that the situation with (4yodck) has gotten out of hand. Your refusal to work with any of my suggestions and allowing him to continue to behave the way he does is not acceptable and has created a dangerous situation for the rest of the children I have in care. I hope you can find suitable care for both the children that better meets your needs.


Sincerely,

You.


I WOULD write it like that because if the parent had problems with a previous daycare and now you and they refuse to acknowledge the 4yo kids' behavior, then the problem lies with THEM and someone needs to point this out. Keep a copy of the letter in case they do try to retaliate.

First, I have been in similar situations. This girl I had (4.5 yo also and then a 1yo baby) did not want to cooperate with anything her mother said and did. The 1 yo had an evil cry! It scared me how long it could go on. The older would kick, scream, yell and throw things at pickup. EVERY DAY. I finally did what *I* wanted and not what the parent wanted. I got that child ready every day right before pickup time. Then *I* simply had the other kids follow me and I put the kid in the carseat and said goodbye. I'm in a warm climate and had a fenced front yard so no biggie for me to do this. Mom did not agree with me the first time I did it, but the kid wasn't about to kick ME. Her MOM might have been ridiculous enough to let her get away with that crap, but I was not going to allow it any more. I was sick of it. This worked like a charm for several months but the kid still acted up. I put up with a lot until the child acted up in my home and threw a block at my kid's head on purpose. Mom didn't want to acknowledge what happened and tried to dismiss my concern. So I termed ON the spot.

They DID go to CPS, but I beat her to it. I had that 'feeling' that she'd call on me so I explained to licensing what happened and WHY I finally termed. Licensing said "Wow you're patient, I would have termed after the first week!" When dcm finally called them, it was already on record that this was a retaliation. HOWEVER, that said, the state still had to come investigate; of course her false allegations were found out and my case was "unfounded".

People who don't want to acknowledge their kids' wrongdoings are doing a huge disservice to the new generations and they will see it in time. Of course, that'll be after the kid does something terrible and ends up hurting someone or going to jail or worse.

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He will have an outburst immediately. He doesn't understand term but mom does and she is going to beg him to be good, bribe him, or be very angry about being told no. All three of these will escalate him. He won't get why the energy is different but he will seize the moment and go for it.

So be prepared for an ugly deal that day. It will most likely happen at whatever frequency he has been blowing up. If that is every other day then it will happen on day one or two.

Get their stuff packed and within reach. Give back everything you possibly can the first drop off so you have little left to return. Make sure you have EVERYTHING for both kids. If you owe them money make sure you have that check written every day with their remaining balance. You want to do a QUICK we are done with zero communication after the blow up.

Call licensing and let them know you are terming. Tell the Mom you called them so they would be aware of the issues.

Don't apologize. Just let her know that he needs a different environment and he will do GREAT. Good luck. If they need care for the baby you could offer that but they would have to sign an agreement that the older child will not ever step foot on your property or be in a car on your property.

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I think you should call his previous childcare program. My licensor encouraged me to do this with a child. This will also give you background to discuss with your licensor should she file a complaint. A paper trail. I know she said the distance was the problem.....but she would not tell you otherwise. I always ask for previous childcare phone numbers and yes I do call. One family would not give it to me, so I told them I could not provide care. I was once investigated and had to close my program during investigation. You can't be too careful.

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He's been with op for a year. It would be interesting to know his history but it wouldn't really help.

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Please don't put yourself and your daycare kids in danger for another 4 weeks. Can you imagine what your other daycare parents would think if they saw his behavior? I would not bring my child back after witnessing his outbursts.

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