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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Help! Texas Montessori Preschool Looking For Location But Fire Code=Impossible!
montessorimom 02:02 PM 02-27-2017
I am helping our local not for profit preschool here in a west Texas town find a location to rent for the next school year. There are approx 24 kids, and the school is fully licensed. Their current building is being sold, and we're looking for another church location to rent a 5 classrooms for next school year. Well... fire code says there has to be sprinklers in every room or a door to the exterior. All of these buildings were built a LONG time ago, and to code at the time, but the fire Marshall is a stickler on this. Is there anything we can do? There are 2 potential locations, one that's perfect but no sprinklers and the rooms are up stairs. Another that's downstairs but no sprinklers either.
Could it be possible that the fire Marshall is enforcing what he PREFERS and not what is required? What about having fire extinguishers in each room?
Any ideas you guys??
Could it be possible that the fire Marshall is enforcing what he PREFERS and not what is required? What about having fire extinguishers in each room?
Any ideas you guys??
Blackcat31 02:09 PM 02-27-2017
Originally Posted by montessorimom:
I am helping our local not for profit preschool here in a west Texas town find a location to rent for the next school year. There are approx 24 kids, and the school is fully licensed. Their current building is being sold, and we're looking for another church location to rent a 5 classrooms for next school year. Well... fire code says there has to be sprinklers in every room or a door to the exterior. All of these buildings were built a LONG time ago, and to code at the time, but the fire Marshall is a stickler on this. Is there anything we can do? There are 2 potential locations, one that's perfect but no sprinklers and the rooms are up stairs. Another that's downstairs but no sprinklers either.
Could it be possible that the fire Marshall is enforcing what he PREFERS and not what is required? What about having fire extinguishers in each room?
Any ideas you guys??
You can check your state's licensing requirements here: https://www.daycare.com/texas/I am helping our local not for profit preschool here in a west Texas town find a location to rent for the next school year. There are approx 24 kids, and the school is fully licensed. Their current building is being sold, and we're looking for another church location to rent a 5 classrooms for next school year. Well... fire code says there has to be sprinklers in every room or a door to the exterior. All of these buildings were built a LONG time ago, and to code at the time, but the fire Marshall is a stickler on this. Is there anything we can do? There are 2 potential locations, one that's perfect but no sprinklers and the rooms are up stairs. Another that's downstairs but no sprinklers either.
Could it be possible that the fire Marshall is enforcing what he PREFERS and not what is required? What about having fire extinguishers in each room?
Any ideas you guys??
I highly doubt the fire marshall is just doing what he prefers.... the requirements are there for safety reasons no matter when the building was built.
There are many cases where providers and centers have had to upgrade their facility to meet the requirements so your issue is nothing new.
montessorimom 02:11 PM 02-27-2017
The only reason I suggested that was because my contractor here who builds some of the public schools suggested that maybe the fire marshall may be giving us different information than a state code inspector and that he may want to see certain things put in place, but it's possible it's not actually required :-/
Rockgirl 02:27 PM 02-27-2017
Curious--which town are you in? You can pm me if you'd rather. Just wondering if you're near me. 
Blackcat31 02:30 PM 02-27-2017
Originally Posted by montessorimom:
The only reason I suggested that was because my contractor here who builds some of the public schools suggested that maybe the fire marshall may be giving us different information than a state code inspector and that he may want to see certain things put in place, but it's possible it's not actually required :-/
Oh, I understand what you mean but it is common for child cares to have to have certain things in place or have them upgraded to meet licensing requirements. The only reason I suggested that was because my contractor here who builds some of the public schools suggested that maybe the fire marshall may be giving us different information than a state code inspector and that he may want to see certain things put in place, but it's possible it's not actually required :-/
The good news is that you (or the license holder/owner) is entitled to see the rules and requirements so that you/they will know if any changes are actually required or suggested.
e.j. 06:03 PM 02-27-2017
I ran your question by my son who works in the fire protection industry. First of all, he said fire standards are a bare minimum requirement and fire codes are adopted from those standards. Fire codes are determined by "the local authority that has jurisdiction" which, in your case, could be that fire marshal.
He said he can't speak to Texas fire codes but in this state, while fire standards cover basic requirements, the local authority - fire chief, fire captain, fire marshal - whatever the case may be - has the authority to dictate additional requirements and has final say as to what exactly is required as long as it meets or exceeds fire standards.
Your contractor may be correct in saying that a state inspector would give you different information and that what the fire marshal is requiring may be over and above what the standards require but the fire marshal follows the codes of his jurisdiction so you may have no other recourse than to comply with what he's telling you.
He also said the likelihood of getting the fire marshal to ok the use of fire extinguishers vs sprinklers is slim to none because the differences between the two are night and day.
Also, occupancy plays a big role in the decision. The more helpless the occupants are in a fire, the stricter the requirements will be. The younger the occupants are, the more dependent they'll be in the event of a fire. Fire personnel want fire protection to be as fast and as fool proof as possible.
Probably not what you want to hear but I hope it helps explain why the fire marshal may be saying one thing and your contractor thinks the state inspectors may say something else.
He said he can't speak to Texas fire codes but in this state, while fire standards cover basic requirements, the local authority - fire chief, fire captain, fire marshal - whatever the case may be - has the authority to dictate additional requirements and has final say as to what exactly is required as long as it meets or exceeds fire standards.
Your contractor may be correct in saying that a state inspector would give you different information and that what the fire marshal is requiring may be over and above what the standards require but the fire marshal follows the codes of his jurisdiction so you may have no other recourse than to comply with what he's telling you.
He also said the likelihood of getting the fire marshal to ok the use of fire extinguishers vs sprinklers is slim to none because the differences between the two are night and day.
Also, occupancy plays a big role in the decision. The more helpless the occupants are in a fire, the stricter the requirements will be. The younger the occupants are, the more dependent they'll be in the event of a fire. Fire personnel want fire protection to be as fast and as fool proof as possible.
Probably not what you want to hear but I hope it helps explain why the fire marshal may be saying one thing and your contractor thinks the state inspectors may say something else.
Pestle 07:11 PM 02-27-2017
Everything that e.j. said. I know enough about code to tell you that:
The strictest standard always rules.
So if the federal life safety standard is stricter than the local standard, you have to meed federal guidelines. If the local standard is stricter (which is usually how it works), you have to meet the local standard.
And, just going with my gut--your clients couldn't and shouldn't operate a day care center of that size on the second floor of an unsprinklered building in any city in America. I know it's a huge expense and could be prohibitive, but it's an absolute requirement for life safety. I'm sorry if this doesn't work out, but there's a reason those codes exist. Check out the following for examples from different cities:
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/bds/article/226130
http://city.milwaukee.gov/DNS/planni...rectrbldcd.pdf
I don't suppose you've got one of those newfangled neo-Calvinist franchise megachurches kicking around town. . . they might have new-construction classroom space available in the weekday.
The strictest standard always rules.
So if the federal life safety standard is stricter than the local standard, you have to meed federal guidelines. If the local standard is stricter (which is usually how it works), you have to meet the local standard.
And, just going with my gut--your clients couldn't and shouldn't operate a day care center of that size on the second floor of an unsprinklered building in any city in America. I know it's a huge expense and could be prohibitive, but it's an absolute requirement for life safety. I'm sorry if this doesn't work out, but there's a reason those codes exist. Check out the following for examples from different cities:
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/bds/article/226130
http://city.milwaukee.gov/DNS/planni...rectrbldcd.pdf
I don't suppose you've got one of those newfangled neo-Calvinist franchise megachurches kicking around town. . . they might have new-construction classroom space available in the weekday.
TXhomedaycare 11:19 AM 02-28-2017
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I ran your question by my son who works in the fire protection industry. First of all, he said fire standards are a bare minimum requirement and fire codes are adopted from those standards. Fire codes are determined by "the local authority that has jurisdiction" which, in your case, could be that fire marshal.
He said he can't speak to Texas fire codes but in this state, while fire standards cover basic requirements, the local authority - fire chief, fire captain, fire marshal - whatever the case may be - has the authority to dictate additional requirements and has final say as to what exactly is required as long as it meets or exceeds fire standards.
Your contractor may be correct in saying that a state inspector would give you different information and that what the fire marshal is requiring may be over and above what the standards require but the fire marshal follows the codes of his jurisdiction so you may have no other recourse than to comply with what he's telling you.
He also said the likelihood of getting the fire marshal to ok the use of fire extinguishers vs sprinklers is slim to none because the differences between the two are night and day.
Also, occupancy plays a big role in the decision. The more helpless the occupants are in a fire, the stricter the requirements will be. The younger the occupants are, the more dependent they'll be in the event of a fire. Fire personnel want fire protection to be as fast and as fool proof as possible.
Probably not what you want to hear but I hope it helps explain why the fire marshal may be saying one thing and your contractor thinks the state inspectors may say something else.
I ran your question by my son who works in the fire protection industry. First of all, he said fire standards are a bare minimum requirement and fire codes are adopted from those standards. Fire codes are determined by "the local authority that has jurisdiction" which, in your case, could be that fire marshal.
He said he can't speak to Texas fire codes but in this state, while fire standards cover basic requirements, the local authority - fire chief, fire captain, fire marshal - whatever the case may be - has the authority to dictate additional requirements and has final say as to what exactly is required as long as it meets or exceeds fire standards.
Your contractor may be correct in saying that a state inspector would give you different information and that what the fire marshal is requiring may be over and above what the standards require but the fire marshal follows the codes of his jurisdiction so you may have no other recourse than to comply with what he's telling you.
He also said the likelihood of getting the fire marshal to ok the use of fire extinguishers vs sprinklers is slim to none because the differences between the two are night and day.
Also, occupancy plays a big role in the decision. The more helpless the occupants are in a fire, the stricter the requirements will be. The younger the occupants are, the more dependent they'll be in the event of a fire. Fire personnel want fire protection to be as fast and as fool proof as possible.
Probably not what you want to hear but I hope it helps explain why the fire marshal may be saying one thing and your contractor thinks the state inspectors may say something else.
I did commercial property management before I did in home daycare and lets just say the fire Marshall was the worst part about doing construction. He has the final say. You will have to choose the cheapest option and make it happen.