To "potty training" a kid (3) who is not verbal enough to tell you they have to go?

DCB 3 was back on Wednesday after a long break. Mom said she was working on potty training with him at home. She said he went 1 full day without diapers. I thought..."Great!!!"....but then she said she had to ask him every 20 min or so if he needed to go (to which he'd nod his head yes 100% of the time). She said there are 3 pair of underwear and an extra outfit in his bag if you want to try.

He is sleeping when he gets here at 6:45, and will sleep until 12pm unless I wake him. I woke him at 8:45, and he was dry so I set him on the toilet (didn't even ask) and he peed. He KNOWS what to do. I let him sit on the potty for awhile, to make sure he didn't need to poop. I asked if he was done, he shook his head yes. I said we are going to try underwear now, if you need to poop..you tell me and I will help you. Can you do that??? (Nods head yes).

5 min later he CRAPPED HIS PANTS. There wasn't even a visible facial cue or hiding in a corner, or squatting down, pushing like my 4 kids at PT age. He. Just. Crapped!!!!! And then proceeded to play in it until I noticed the smell.....

I take him to the toilet every time his diaper is dry and have been since he was 2 years old. BUT I don't think me asking him every 20 min if he needs to go is potty training. He's 3, he should be able to express in some way that he needs to go..right??? Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he had his mom trained over break, not the other way around?

DCM is preggers so I understand her desperation to get him potty trained...but I think until she realizes the delay in communication he has, it will not happen to a point he will tell her (or me, or dad) that he has to go. He honestly doesn't care if his pants are wet, or poopie. It doesn't phase him at all. GRRRRRR!!!!

Reply

I potty trained a non verbal autistic child when I worked in a public school a few years back. She couldn't communicate with you at all as far as shaking/nodding head when asked questions. I took her to the bathroom every 45 min, she still had accidents here and there but she eventually started going into the bathroom by herself! Before I quit working in the school district she was fully potty trained!

Now, I have 2 dck's that are 2 who understands and goes potty by themselves at home (at least that's what the dcm's tell me) who I have to ask every 30 minutes if they need to go potty

Reply

I have potty trained many non-verbal special needs kids. One option would be to give him access to a photo of a potty, so he has a non-verbal way to communicate his needs. Another option would be the ASL sign for bathroom.

That being said, you are in a daycare situation and not a school situation. If you are not up for the challenge (and I wouldn't be, in your shoes), then tell his mother he has to be trained at home, completely, first. I usually recommend parents try it over an extended break at home.

And, if he is 3 and has NO communication skills, he needs to be evaluated by a speech pathologist. That is pretty old for no communication in any way.

Good Luck!!!

Reply

He CAN communicate. He just doesn't. He talks to my kids all the time. Not very clearly (like maybe that of a 12-18 month old). He talks to his mom too. He just wont talk to me ever, nor will he tell any adult he needs to potty. I think he has a form of selective multisim. I don't think. I know. I've expressed my concerns to mom many times. She just laughs it off. His older brother was in head-start when with me (m-f, 11:30 - 3:30). I hope she sends him too...though I don't know if they take non potty trained 3-4s?

I could give him a picture of the potty, but he would never use it. I've told him he can just come tug on my leg if he needs to go, he won't do that either. When he wants something, he will sometimes come and stare at me or my husband. No words, just staring...and you have to play 20 questions (to which he will nod yes to all of them) to figure out what he wants. I'm really sad, because he's such a CUTE little boy, and very kind, very sweet. He was STARTING to make more noise (cooing, and such which he never did as a baby) with me right before vacation, and now we are back to square 1 with him being quiet as a mouse all day. He's so quiet, when people stop by during the week, they wouldn't know he was even here if I didn't make it known.

Reply

I think three is waiting until the last second to potty train IMO. Obvs not your fault, I'd just do it.

I have potty trained 4 and i still have to remind my 7 yr old ds to go potty.

He also was potty trained with pee first, weird if you ask me but kids can be strange lol

Reply

MN Mom, I hear and agree with your frustration. I have a very nonverbal DCK who is roughly the same age as yours. Mom wants this one trained too because a newbie is on the way so I get it but I won't let it be my problem.

I think it is important that kids be able to express themselves in some way shape or form to be toilet trained here. I can't just read their mind or assume they need to go or even take time to routinely sit them on the toilet.

If mom wants to train him, I would tell her to go for it but at your house he has to wear pull ups or diapers untilhe is capable of either telling you he needs to go or simply going on his own.

Mine is 80% there. They don't verbally tell me they need to go but they do go by themselves when they do need to go. They are skilled in dressing and undressing (thankfully) so the need to "tell" me isn't really necessary....although I would prefer it, it isn't necessary. kwim?

So maybe aproach mom from that angle. He needs to be able to go into the bathroom and undress and redress on his own. That's enough communication for me to know what he is doing, needing or wanting to do.

I wouldn't stress about it though. You can only support a child who is engaged in a healthy training process. You can't force it, take control of it or let it be your problem.

Support mom in teaching self help skills first if the verbal part isn't there. But no way wouuld I be simply taking a kid to the bathroom every 30 minutes or so or asking him and waiting for a nod or reply.

Reply

being verbal is not a criteria for toilet training. what about deaf children?

You can teach him the sign for potty

my question is if the child is non verbal at 3 WHY and are they getting him help. At 3 the child should have many words..

Truthfully none of my kids tell me they have to go to the bathroom. They are either at the stage I remind them go at regular intervals or they just go themselves.

So is it worth it.... yes the child needs to learn. It would have been easier when the child was younger but they still have to master it.

Sorry to those who do not believe but BRIBE him.... m n ms work wonders.

Reply

starting at age 3 children qualify for early childhood special ed including speech and OT non verbal should qualify him. Mom needs to call the school district and get testing started. Including a hearing test.

In the mean time learn and teach him ad all the children some signs. one at a time ad use them daily

cracker, milk, cookie,potty, shoes, more, please, sorry, pizza, mommy, daddy, start there and add more. The kids love it so it helps the child that needs help.

Please encourage dcm to contact the school and get testing started.

Reply

oh HE** no! Pullups until accident free for two weeks. One day is not nearly enough.

Reply

I agree! Non-verbal and/or autistic kids can totally be potty trained. It's hard convincing their parents of that sometimes though.

Reply

I would LOVE for him to learn signs. He will not use them. He doesn't even parrot me. He never has...believe me when I say I've tried. It always ends up with me being frustrated and depressed because he can't /won't. He talks at home among his brothers (and mom insists he talks to her and dad). He talks to my kids. He just will NOT talk to me or my DH, and is now starting to not talk to my 13 year old. He won't mimic, he won't participate in singing, clapping, nothing unless its around little kids. I've tried spanish and english with him. Still no response...just stares and nods. I used to think it was just plain stubbornness, but seriously...how can he go alone ALL day with not making a sound around me? I talk to him constantly, but really feel like I'm talking to a corner lol.

When he does talk to other kids, it is not enunciated, and it's very nasally sounding. He can hear me fine though, because I will call his name (both quite whisper and loud) when he's not looking and he will turn around.

Reply

Has something happened to him that he won't speak to adults? It sounds like that to me because of him now not talking to your 13 year old. Like he sees the 13 year old turning into an adult and then the trust is gone. If he talks to the little ones it sounds like he trusts them but not adults.

Reply

Not that I'm aware of. I've only ever seen bruises and scrapes on him once the entire time he's been here. Mom called him out 2 days in a row last year. When he came back his arm was bruised and burned/scrapped, and so was his leg and face. She said her middle child turned the dryer on with DCB inside. He never went to the doctor AFIK though. It was suspicious...but it's the ONLY time he's ever shown signs of injury and the parents didn't act scared or weird when I asked what happened.

He's been quite with me since he was a baby though. Never cooed, never babbled, he would only cry when needed changed or fed or held. He never smiled much either. I can get him to laugh hysterically now though when I do my silly dance for him.

Today he found a Christmas ornament my son made for me under the tree. It has my sons picture in it. My son spends a lot of time at DCB's house because he's really good friends with middle child, so DCB knows my son well. He showed me the ornament, and pointed at my son's picture. I said "Who is that? Can you tell me his name? Who is that silly boy?!?" and he just kept pointing. I repeated my question and then he pointed to under the tree where he found it. He knows my son, and his name but wouldn't tell me when asked.

Reply

I think I win the cake when it comes to PT issues, parents and children......


Here is what I did. I had one that was 3yrs old and one that was 4yrs old.

I tell them to go to the bathroom. THey MUST go on their own. they must be able to take down their own pants, sit on the toilet and etc.....

If they can't do that, then I won't even try to PT them.

What I have found that works with those kids that are defiant or struggle, is for the first 30 days to tell them to go to the bathroom every 25-30 min. They must go on their own. If they have an accident, at this age, they can clean it up on their own too. I hold them accountable for their bodies.


After that, I stop telling them and see what happens.... Usually, they will start asking me to go to the toilet around week 3. If after the 30 days has passed and I see NO results then I stop. No more. This means that they are not ready or that the parents are not doing it at home...

In the start of PT I also print out my policies and expectation of PT with the parents while at home. I make it very clear to the parents that if we are all not doing the same thing here and at home that I WILL NOT continue to assist in PTing.

I don't let the parents run the show with PTing when it comes to my house. If they tell me that their child is PT at home, I say great let's see if we can get them to do it here for at least two solid weeks so that we can get them into underwear...

honestly I can't stand having to PT kids......Why, cuz most parents these days are lazy and expect us to do it.....

Reply

I would think there is more going on. You know he can talk because he talks to the kids he's with. Does you middle child ever hear him talk at his house when he is over there? There must be something witht the adults that makes him not communicate with him.

How long was he in the dryer!!! He would have had to be in there long enough to receive burn so that isn't a quick thing. That poor little guy and to only be 2 when that happened.

Reply

For this child think toilet taught first. Then later potty trained. The nonverbal 4 year old I currently have came to me " fully" potty trained about 3months ago, was really toilet taught as long as you took him to the bathroom every hour he was fine would and still does everything on his own. Now he will take himself to the bathroom when he needs to poo., and during the fieldtrip last week and this week he wore a pull up (parents requeast) but didn't go in it he held it.

Reply

I think I'm going to try telling him to go potty and see what happens. I honestly never even thought of that! He is smart enough to put his dirty dishes in the sink and throw his own garbage away, and he will put his shoes on when I ask (even though mom and dad won't let him do it himself yet, they do it for him still). I don't have any pull ups today, only diapers and underwear. I'm going to put some undies on him and try telling him to go and see what happens.

Reply

sorry I missed that post.... I have a child here who is 4 and has selected mutism. He only talks at home and NEVER talks at dc..

we just discovered this. Thanks to the form, someone here responded to my post and I was able to talk to the parents about it. They went to the docs and then they took it from there and confirmed it just right before christmas...

just so you know, before even knowing that he had this, I was able to potty train him. He understands, just does not talk when talked to.

Reply

You need to talk to the parents.........he MUST be self sufficient in order to PT..

If he is not, then that is where you need to start.....tell the parents that they need to do this at home with him and continue to help teach him to be able to conduct the process on his own...

here is what I tell the parents where we will start.......

at age 2 or sooner if they are showing signs of readiness..

1. go to the bathroom when told with out being lead
2. pull down pants on own
3. get up on toilet and sit down on own. sign full ABCs
4. Wipe, will assist with this for a while
5. get off of the toilet on own
6. flush the toilet
7. pull up pants
8. wash hands and dry
9. turn off the light
10. repeat

When the kid is doing all of these steps, I stand in the hallway right outside the door. I do not stand in the bathroom, just peep in to see that they are doing what is needed.

If I see them start to get frustrated, cry or struggle then I will step in and ask "do you need help?" I will not do it for them, I will only assist them...

If a child cannot do the steps above, then in my eyes they are not ready. I will not go in and do all of those steps for them....

HOWEVER in some rare ocassions, I have had kids younger than 2 tell me when they need to go, but can't do the above steps,. so we work with them so that they don't regress....

Reply

[ If they have an accident, at this age, they can clean it up on their own too. I hold them accountable for their bodies.



I don't agree with this above- having a child clean up his own urine or poo

They are learning-

Reply

I have read in many threads like this one that many of you providers don't potty train your DCKs, that it has to be done all at home and they must be accident free for weeks before you'll start. I completely understand why this is but I always wonder how on earth a parent could potty train a child when they spend nearly all of their awake time at daycare. I recently PT'd my own DS and if we reverted back to diapers even once for a long outing or for a day at grandparents' house it was like starting all over again! If they are picking up at 5 or later and going home they might not even need to potty before getting a diaper for bedtime so that leaves only the weekends when they are likely running all of their errands. My DCKs are getting to the PT age here and I just sit them on their little potties while I change the younger kids' diapers and always again before nap time or going outside. It doesn't take any more time than changing their diaper and they are able to get used to the idea in anticipation of full potty training. It actually helped my DS because he loved having "potty buddies." It got him to break away from playing more easily. I even stole an idea from a center, we'd start a "potty train" we'd go around the house pretending to be a train then head into "bathroom station" every hour or so. They loved it! It seems a little silly to refuse to help at all. Don't you all want them to be PT'd as soon as possible?

Reply

It's not a punishment... and it is really not a big deal at all.... this is age 3 and 4

It's all about how it is done. If the kids pee, they take off the dirty pull up, put it in the trash, wipe clean and put on a new one. If they poop and it's not a messy one, then they also do as above.

when it happens, we just say let's try to remember to listen to our bodies and go in the toilet. nothing else is said.

why is this wrong????

Reply

When a child spills a cup of milk do you have them clean it up? When a three old runs into the table causing stuff to fall to the ground do you make them clean it up?

Reply

yes... and I never scold them either..... accidents happen we are human and its a fact of life..

If they were running, they would be told to walk........

Reply

Not disagreeing or agreeing here but there is a big difference between having a child clean up body fluids vs cleaning up milk....kwim?

Licensing requires us to wear gloves as well as wash our hands and sanitize the area if body fluids are involved. Gloves are not required nor necessary when serving or cleaning up milk.

Just sayin'

Reply

I have two DCK that are supposedly ready to be potty trained according to their parents. One doesn't even show readiness (I think she put it out there when she say me training my DD) and the other I wasn't even aware they were training her and she doesn't show readiness.

One of my DCK's won't speak. He doesn't speak here at all. Mom and his older sibling says he speaks at home but from visiting their home, his speech is very inaudible, they can't understand him either.

*sigh*

*lurks*

Reply

I guess I should be more clear on this.... I will have the kids clean themselves up if the accident is contained in their pull up. They would not be touching anything but the pull up. If they pee or poop on the floor, well then I would clean that.

again these are kids that are more than able to simply take off a dirty pull up and throw it in the trash.

we are not talking about a blow out that would require adult assistance.

Reply