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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>DCM Shopping on MY Overtime?
DBug 03:17 AM 02-16-2012
I've been providing overtime (1.5 hours each night after closing) for a family for the last week and a half. Dcd is military and is away for training for 3 weeks. In the past I've provided overtime for other families in the same situation -- dad normally picks up, but because mom's hours go past closing, I'll offer to keep the child for my hourly rate. I've already decided I'm NOT doing that anymore. But here's my question:

Last night dcm waltzed in in makeup and day clothes (usually she's wearing scrubs), and told me about the spending spree she had just been on. My kids missed their evening activity last night just so I could watch dcg (hubby's away so he couldn't take them). They missed stuff last week and they'll miss things next week too, all because I'm doing overtime for this one dcg.

I plan on calling mom out about it this morning (since I've had time to figure out what to say ), but I'm wondering if I should tell her that I will no longer be able to provide overtime for next week (dcd's final week of training)? I'm very tempted to do it, and hand her a list of teenaged babysitters in our area at the same time. What would you do?

This is the family that has been repeatedly late with payment, and I think dcp's just don't get it at all. I don't think they're being intentionally disrespectful, I just don't think they get it.

Anyway, I'm done with my own kids missing out -- wwyd??
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DaisyMamma 03:50 AM 02-16-2012
OMG I would be really mad.
First off I hope you were charging a good amount for almost 10 hrs overtime.
Don't do it anymore. Don't give her the list of names, shes a big girl - she can figure it out.
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Cat Herder 05:30 AM 02-16-2012
Well..... For me it is very grey.

If she is paying extra for overtime, without exclusions, how she uses the time is her choice. Providers can't offer services, then get upset when clients use them, YKWIM?

If you have been doing it free, as a courtesy to help while DCD is away, then she is being selfish and you NEED to call her on it.

If you only offer overtime for clients who are working, clearly written out/explained in your contract, then you also should call her on it.

Never be afraid to enforce your policies, never put policies in your contract you won't enforce. It makes life easier. I know how frustrating it is to miss out on things with our own kids. Sometimes we have to remember that it really was our choice to begin with....not the DCP's. We make the rules.

IMHO, The best move would be to say no overtime during the school year as it interferes with your ability to meet your own children's needs. I have done it this way for a while, and it has saved me lot's of headaches... NOBODY argues a Mother needing to be able to help with homework and after school activities.
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Crazy8 05:37 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by Catherder:
Well..... For me it is very grey.

If she is paying extra for overtime, without exclusions, how she uses the time is her choice. Providers can't offer services, then get upset when clients use them, YKWIM?

If you have been doing it free, it as a courtesy to help while DCD is away, then she is being selfish and you NEED to call her on it.

If you only offer overtime for clients who are working, clearly written out/explained in your contract, then you also should call her on it.

Never be afraid to enforce your policies, never put policies in your contract you won't enforce. It makes life easier.
I tend to agree with this. While it would be NICE if parents only used our services during their working hours that is NOT always the case and I've found it's not worth getting upset over. You are OFFERING her the service and at a cost and she is paying for it, she has no obligation to worry about your kids missing their activities, etc. That is YOUR responsibility. I am all for helping out but not to the point where it takes away from my kids/family in my "off" hours.
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countrymom 06:19 AM 02-16-2012
I would tell her that you can't offer ot anymore, I will not allow my kids to miss activities because a parent has to work, I pay for my kids activities. I have a mom who needs after hour care, I'm good friends with her, she comes and picks her kids up right after work, sometimes she goes to the store and will call and ask me if I need something (we live in the county so the store is a distance) but she doesn't go shopping for no reason.
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Blackcat31 06:24 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by Catherder:
Well..... For me it is very grey.

If she is paying extra for overtime, without exclusions, how she uses the time is her choice. Providers can't offer services, then get upset when clients use them, YKWIM?

If you have been doing it free, as a courtesy to help while DCD is away, then she is being selfish and you NEED to call her on it.

If you only offer overtime for clients who are working, clearly written out/explained in your contract, then you also should call her on it.

Never be afraid to enforce your policies, never put policies in your contract you won't enforce. It makes life easier. I know how frustrating it is to miss out on things with our own kids. Sometimes we have to remember that it really was our choice to begin with....not the DCP's. We make the rules.

IMHO, The best move would be to say no overtime during the school year as it interferes with your ability to meet your own children's needs. I have done it this way for a while, and it has saved me lot's of headaches... NOBODY argues a Mother needing to be able to help with homework and after school activities.
Catherder gets my vote!

You can't offer something (overtime) and then be mad when she uses it as she sees fit unless you both had already agreed that it was for work only. If that wasn't discussed and she is paying, I feel she has a right to do as she pleases with that time.

You also can't really be mad about missing your kids' stuff because again, YOU agree to do so.

Would you be mad about missing the kids' stuff IF this mom had been working? Did the mom KNOW you thought she was or was that at all part of the agreement?

Lots of variables here and Catherder broke them down nicely.
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DBug 06:29 AM 02-16-2012
I hear you, and I am definitely NOT offering overtime ever again. Lesson learned!

This am:
Me: I should have asked last night, but do you get off early some nights?
Dcm: No, usually it's 6:00.
Me: You mentioned you went shopping yesterday, so did you get off early?
Dcm: Oh no, I didn't go in at all yesterday.
Me: My kids skipped their evening thing last night because dcg was here -- nest time please let me know so that my kids won't have to skip (while this: was boiling behind clenched teeth)
Dcm: Oh ... okay.

After she left I shot her an email reiterating what I had said and what it meant.

Seriously, I understand that she's paying overtime (by the hour, so she COULD technically leave dcg here as long as she wants ... as long as she pays the hourly wage), but if I were in her situation, I would NOT leave dcg in care PAST closing when I took the entire day off . I just don't get what she was thinking??

Like I said, lesson learned. No more special favours for military or anyone else .
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itlw8 06:33 AM 02-16-2012
I would tell her how you feel.

Dcm It upset me last night when you got here after being out shopping. I thought I was doing overtime because you had to work. As a result my children had to miss out on their activites I had paid for.

then listen to her answer. I bet she had no idea... Then together work out a solution.

These are the nights my children have activites and then she says these are the evenings I have to work.
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Blackcat31 06:33 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by DBug:
I hear you, and I am definitely NOT offering overtime ever again. Lesson learned!

This am:
Me: I should have asked last night, but do you get off early some nights?
Dcm: No, usually it's 6:00.
Me: You mentioned you went shopping yesterday, so did you get off early?
Dcm: Oh no, I didn't go in at all yesterday.
Me: My kids skipped their evening thing last night because dcg was here -- nest time please let me know so that my kids won't have to skip (while this: was boiling behind clenched teeth)
Dcm: Oh ... okay.

After she left I shot her an email reiterating what I had said and what it meant.

Seriously, I understand that she's paying overtime (by the hour, so she COULD technically leave dcg here as long as she wants ... as long as she pays the hourly wage), but if I were in her situation, I would NOT leave dcg in care PAST closing when I took the entire day off . I just don't get what she was thinking??

Like I said, lesson learned. No more special favours for military or anyone else .
I think you were great for trying to be so helpful and nice but with good intentions comes the risk of being used....so it is a tough situation to be in.

In the future I would make it VERY clear to mom that overtime is work ONLY or just stop doing the over time all together.

If this is their family situation, then she (DCM) will just have to figure it out.
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TBird 07:15 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You can't offer something (overtime) and then be mad when she uses it as she sees fit unless you both had already agreed that it was for work only. If that wasn't discussed and she is paying, I feel she has a right to do as she pleases with that time.
I respectfully agree with this. I provide overtime ONLYif it isn't slighting my own family and if I agree to providing it (and they're paying me what we agreed upon at the designated time) it's up to them what they do with the time.

And as I've posted on this issue before....if we stop solving all of the parents' problems, you'd be amazed at how efficient they are at solving their own!!!

Good luck Sweetie....stop doing it!!!
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Unregistered 07:36 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I think you were great for trying to be so helpful and nice but with good intentions comes the risk of being used....so it is a tough situation to be in.

In the future I would make it VERY clear to mom that overtime is work ONLY or just stop doing the over time all together.

If this is their family situation, then she (DCM) will just have to figure it out.
I would say Sally, my DC closes at 5pm, if you need care after this you'll need to let me know for what dates/times. I will check my schedule and let you know if I am able to accomodate you.

I am lucky, my parents (all but one) always ask me if i can do a schedule change, i always say let me check my schedule and i'll get back to you. If i cani will but they understand i have a family/life outsideof work and depend on reg hours to plan everyting else.
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mrsp'slilpeeps 07:40 AM 02-16-2012
Nope, Nope, Nope.

No overtime here.

Find a babysitter.
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DBug 09:11 AM 02-16-2012
Got it, Ladies No more overtime. Ever.

BUT, can I/should I cancel next week's overtime when I've already committed to it?
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joysjustlikehome 09:19 AM 02-16-2012
I would cancel, there's plenty of notice for her. ~Joy
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TBird 09:24 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by DBug:
Got it, Ladies No more overtime. Ever.

BUT, can I/should I cancel next week's overtime when I've already committed to it?
IMHO...probably not. I would make a clean, fresh start the week after.
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daycare 09:33 AM 02-16-2012
I have not read everyone elses post, but I am more than likely going to get flamed for this.

YOU are the one who decided to work over time. There is no way possible for you to know what parents are doing at any time of the day and really, you should not worry about it. As long as they are abiding by the rules and paying on time, then there is nothing you can do.

I do feel for you, I was duped into a situation several months back when a DCP came to me and told me that they needed 14 hours of care 5 days a week and was willing to pay me X amount of $$ for it. Their reason was that they could not get all of their work done with their family business. Later, the mom confessed to me that the real reason was that she could not handle the kids because they were monsters, her words not mine.

I was so angry that I fired them..... I too gave up a lot, including my family dinners, kids activities and etc.

Looks like you and I both learned the hard way that there is NO amount of money that you can put on your FAMILY TIME!!!

Sorry this happened to you, please make sure not to make this mistake again....
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My3cents 10:10 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I have not read everyone elses post, but I am more than likely going to get flamed for this.

YOU are the one who decided to work over time. There is no way possible for you to know what parents are doing at any time of the day and really, you should not worry about it. As long as they are abiding by the rules and paying on time, then there is nothing you can do.

I do feel for you, I was duped into a situation several months back when a DCP came to me and told me that they needed 14 hours of care 5 days a week and was willing to pay me X amount of $$ for it. Their reason was that they could not get all of their work done with their family business. Later, the mom confessed to me that the real reason was that she could not handle the kids because they were monsters, her words not mine.

I was so angry that I fired them..... I too gave up a lot, including my family dinners, kids activities and etc.

Looks like you and I both learned the hard way that there is NO amount of money that you can put on your FAMILY TIME!!!

Sorry this happened to you, please make sure not to make this mistake again....
I don't agree with this. I want to know how to reach my parents if I need to in an emergency situation. I am providing services for them to work or go to school. Babysitters provide services for the fun stuff and it don't come cheap, they make a lot more then I do If I am given a heads up on this type of stuff, I don't mind- My parents are good about telling me that they have a doctors appointment or are taking the day off. It's not about caring what they are doing, but it's about knowing how to reach them if I need. I have had parents that have brought their child to care because they want time to clean the house, do errands,need a break, want a day for themselves, and want to socialize the children. For those parents I just ask that they keep their cell phone on them in case I need to get a hold of them. Anywhooo, that is how I roll- I always tell my parents that when they are not working or committed they should be with their kids- but I do have understanding for those that do not abuse me and my services and feel it makes for better parents getting/taking a break. For the parent that can't handle her children, sad......monsters, sad. But......at least she is honest and putting them in a place that she feels is better then what she can offer- Kuddos to her for knowing she is not cutting it herself. I just find there are all different type of parents and they are not all a cookie cutter of me- have to respect that.
Not flaming, just difference of opinion
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DBug 10:19 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
I have not read everyone elses post, but I am more than likely going to get flamed for this.
Nope! Everyone else said the same thing as you .

And I agree -- I made a big mistake with this one. I'm not going to do overtime again. Stupid me ... we even cancelled our Valentine's plans because I thought dcm needed my help . Ugh.

I'm just trying to figure out how to ethically get out of doing next week's overtime . I've already told dcm I need to be done early on Wednesday. We do have other things going on the other nights, but we've already pushed them back because of dcg's schedule. Monday's a stat, so I'm closed (but I'm betting dcm will still try to drop off ).

Since I've already committed to it, I guess I'll have to deal with it. But there definitely won't be a next time!
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daycare 10:49 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by My3cents:
I don't agree with this. I want to know how to reach my parents if I need to in an emergency situation. I am providing services for them to work or go to school. Babysitters provide services for the fun stuff and it don't come cheap, they make a lot more then I do If I am given a heads up on this type of stuff, I don't mind- My parents are good about telling me that they have a doctors appointment or are taking the day off. It's not about caring what they are doing, but it's about knowing how to reach them if I need. I have had parents that have brought their child to care because they want time to clean the house, do errands,need a break, want a day for themselves, and want to socialize the children. For those parents I just ask that they keep their cell phone on them in case I need to get a hold of them. Anywhooo, that is how I roll- I always tell my parents that when they are not working or committed they should be with their kids- but I do have understanding for those that do not abuse me and my services and feel it makes for better parents getting/taking a break. For the parent that can't handle her children, sad......monsters, sad. But......at least she is honest and putting them in a place that she feels is better then what she can offer- Kuddos to her for knowing she is not cutting it herself. I just find there are all different type of parents and they are not all a cookie cutter of me- have to respect that.
Not flaming, just difference of opinion
So right now you can tell me where all of your daycare parents are? Do you have GPS on them or something? Alll joking aside, I understand what you are saying, but do you really think that DCP tell us everything that they are doing?

Yes, I agree, DCP MUST be able to be reached at all times and if they are not, then I need to have back up numbers to call and they MUST be able to pick up the child or make any decisions for the child in the parents absents. BUT that is a whole different thread.

I think a lot of us can agree that there is no way to police parents and what they are doing.
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countrymom 10:53 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by My3cents:
I don't agree with this. I want to know how to reach my parents if I need to in an emergency situation. I am providing services for them to work or go to school. Babysitters provide services for the fun stuff and it don't come cheap, they make a lot more then I do If I am given a heads up on this type of stuff, I don't mind- My parents are good about telling me that they have a doctors appointment or are taking the day off. It's not about caring what they are doing, but it's about knowing how to reach them if I need. I have had parents that have brought their child to care because they want time to clean the house, do errands,need a break, want a day for themselves, and want to socialize the children. For those parents I just ask that they keep their cell phone on them in case I need to get a hold of them. Anywhooo, that is how I roll- I always tell my parents that when they are not working or committed they should be with their kids- but I do have understanding for those that do not abuse me and my services and feel it makes for better parents getting/taking a break. For the parent that can't handle her children, sad......monsters, sad. But......at least she is honest and putting them in a place that she feels is better then what she can offer- Kuddos to her for knowing she is not cutting it herself. I just find there are all different type of parents and they are not all a cookie cutter of me- have to respect that.
Not flaming, just difference of opinion
I agree and thats I do it here too. Respect all the way around.
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daycare 10:54 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by DBug:
Nope! Everyone else said the same thing as you .

And I agree -- I made a big mistake with this one. I'm not going to do overtime again. Stupid me ... we even cancelled our Valentine's plans because I thought dcm needed my help . Ugh.

I'm just trying to figure out how to ethically get out of doing next week's overtime . I've already told dcm I need to be done early on Wednesday. We do have other things going on the other nights, but we've already pushed them back because of dcg's schedule. Monday's a stat, so I'm closed (but I'm betting dcm will still try to drop off ).

Since I've already committed to it, I guess I'll have to deal with it. But there definitely won't be a next time!
what does you contract say? I went by my contract and had to finish out the last two weeks. When I told them i could not participate in offering extended hours of care, the family gave notice. So be ready for that.

I was just honest and told the DCM I am really sorry, but I really did not think that by offering the small amount of overtime each week would hurt my family as much as it has. I am really sorry, but after *** date, I will no longer be able to offer extended hours.

i was so miserable when I did what I did, so I really feel for you....hugs Wish sometimes I wasn't such a people pleaser all the time....lol
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countrymom 10:55 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
So right now you can tell me where all of your daycare parents are? Do you have GPS on them or something? Alll joking aside, I understand what you are saying, but do you really think that DCP tell us everything that they are doing?

Yes, I agree, DCP MUST be able to be reached at all times and if they are not, then I need to have back up numbers to call and they MUST be able to pick up the child or make any decisions for the child in the parents absents. BUT that is a whole different thread.

I think a lot of us can agree that there is no way to police parents and what they are doing.
I do, some are at work, one mom is at work on face book (she's a good friend) one set of parents are on a plane to mexico, one dad is home and will be leaving in about 5 min. but they are good parents so I have no problems.
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WImom 10:55 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by TBird:
IMHO...probably not. I would make a clean, fresh start the week after.
I would do this too. I would though make sure she is working next week on the overtime day.
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daycare 11:02 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by countrymom:
I agree and thats I do it here too. Respect all the way around.
Of course I agree with this too, it is about respect, but really parents are not going to call us and tell us their every move throughout the day.

Example...One of my favorite DCP yesterday decided on his lunch to go golf, he ended up staying at the golf range a lot longer than expected. I had no clue that he decided to go golfing on his lunch and then ended up having to call his mom to come get his son. I really don't care what my parents do, but that is just me.
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bunnyslippers 11:45 AM 02-16-2012
I would be annoyed with her shopping, but she is paying you - kind of tricky. I think in the future it would be better to be upfront with her about having things scheduled for your children on the days she has asked for overtime. I think a little give and take in these situations is fair. I also would NEVER sign up for overtime on a day that my children had activities. It's not worth missing those moments!
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wdmmom 11:50 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by mrsp'slilpeeps:
Nope, Nope, Nope.

No overtime here.

Find a babysitter.
You got it! No favors, no extras, no special, no exceptions!

You want to go shopping, pay a babysitter three times what I make and shop away!

And I would never offer a family a list of any other provider or babysitter. You never know their level of care and I'd hate for something to come back on me if something went wrong or didn't go well.
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saved4always 11:55 AM 02-16-2012
Originally Posted by DBug:
Got it, Ladies No more overtime. Ever.

BUT, can I/should I cancel next week's overtime when I've already committed to it?
I would probably do it if you already commited. UNLESS there are other activities next week that your kids will miss if you do the overtime. If there are activities, I would tell her that you cannot do those days anymore.

I never offer overtime. When parents "talk out loud" about needing care outside of contracted hours, I sometimes have to bite my tongue so I will not offer more than I am willing or wanting to do. And they usually come up with something much more convenient for me to solve thier own problem (like a grandparent picking up on time if dcp has to stay for a meeting, etc.) than what I would have offered if I had opened up my mouth.
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daycare 12:01 PM 02-16-2012
can you tell her that you will commit to next week, however, if she can be back on the nights earlier so that your kids can attend their activities?

I don't think it would hurt to ask her?

There is light at the end of the tunnel......lol
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GretasLittleFriends 12:28 PM 02-16-2012
Not sure what your kids' activities are, but could they get a ride from someone else (teammate/friend)? I know it isn't pleasant to rely on other people, but that way they could at least still do what they needed to do.

As for me, I typically don't mind what my parents do when their child is here. I do, however, have one parent whose communication skills aren't the greatest (frankly, they lack severely), and that mom irks me, but her child is a wonderful child. Right now that mom is the only one I'm having problems with.

I did have a mom ask me Monday if she can pick her daughter up an hour later today so she can do her grocery shopping before she comes home. She works a half hour away, and will do her shopping at Walmart (in the same town she works). To me, I have no issue with that since she will be paying me for my time, and she is already that far away anyway, it really just makes sense. Obviously if I would have a scheduling conflict, I'd let her know.
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bunnyslippers 02:30 PM 02-16-2012
I think the "I was trying to help out" trap that we all fall into is the mistake. If you were in a regular office job, you wouldn't work late every day because your boss needed help. Teachers don't keep students late to help out families after school. It is so important to try and keep a professional line with the families we care for, and try not to get wrapped up in their personal scheduling issues. More often than not, when you do extra for a family, it goes unappreciated and becomes expected. It leads to bitter feelings. Lesson learned, I guess!
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DBug 03:11 PM 02-16-2012
Yeah I totally agree with everyone that what a parent does while their child is here isn't my business. Yesterday the dad of one of my other dc kids went snowboarding, and I was glad that he got the chance to do it. I'm pretty sure that at least one day last month, he spent the entire day at home in bed ... with dcm . Still -- they didn't ask me for overtime to do it.

And too, the last time I did overtime was for the same situation -- dcd is military and was overseas for a couple of weeks for training. Dcm would call me to let me know when she was coming, she would trade duties with coworkers to get out earlier, and she would bring me coffee at pick-up (the Timmies drive-thru is right beside where she works). So I guess I was expecting the same kind of consideration with this current family.

I have really been blessed with some amazing families. It just blows my mind when I run into something different.
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DBug 05:49 AM 02-18-2012
Blogged about this here, and what I've learned from this whole situation.

I also thought I'd post the email I sent to dcm, just in case anyone else can use it if they find themselves in a similar situation in the future.

Here's what I sent her:

Hi DCM,

I'm sorry our conversation got cut short this morning -- I prefer not to discuss business with other parents present, and hey, it was getting a little chaotic anyway :-). But I wanted to also let you know that I will only be able to watch DCG til 5:45 next Wednesday. My kids have a thing going on that I need to be at.

I also didn't get a chance to say that I'm only charging overtime on the half-hours that DCG is actually here, so anytime you can pick up early means less $$ out of your pocket :-). I love having DCG here, but we have had to cancel/skip/postpone several evening activities so that she can be here.

Anyway, we can discuss it further this evening if you like. I just wanted to make sure I filled you in (since I tend to be pretty distracted at pick-up time as it is).

Thanks! Have a great day!!


It seems to have worked! DCM picked up a half hour early last night .
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Tags:contract - clear, enforcing policies - consistency, setting boundries
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