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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Just Won’t Sleep
daycare 02:04 PM 04-24-2014
I have a child who just turned 4. I have had her since she was 16 months old and sleep has always been an issue.
I also have her little sister too.
DCG 4 can be strong willed at times, here she is mostly behaved, but at home or with parents it's like a 3-ring circus.
The issue, the parents CAN NOT get DCG4 to go to bed at night. She will lay down at 8-9 pm and not fall asleep until 11 or after and then wake at 530am or 6am. She also wakes up 3-4 times a night and will cry until someone comes to soothe her. She is a thumb sucker, leg presser and rubs her shirt when she needs to fall asleep..This has gone on forever at their home. But only with the 4 yr old.
The issue is that DCG comes here and then her behavior is horrible. I give 2 chances and then she has to lay down. Most of the time she will fall asleep for 3-6 hours. Lately, she is not sleeping here at ALL and is only getting about 6 hours of sleep each night at home.
I teach a pre-kinder program and she is one of the smartest kids I have here, but her lack of sleep is causing MAJOR issues.
I have asked the parents to talk to their DOC about it and I was told that the doctor was not concerned as no one can make anyone sleep. REALLY, so a child this age can suffice off of 5-7 hours of sleep for a 24hr period?? Yeah I think not, I know most adults can't even do that.
I have no clue what to do. What do you think could be the girls issue? Anxiety? I JUST DON'T know what to do anymore and I am afraid that I will not be able to prep her for kinder if they can't get the sleep issue under control.
any tips or advice, thoughts??
thanks so much
I also have her little sister too.
DCG 4 can be strong willed at times, here she is mostly behaved, but at home or with parents it's like a 3-ring circus.
The issue, the parents CAN NOT get DCG4 to go to bed at night. She will lay down at 8-9 pm and not fall asleep until 11 or after and then wake at 530am or 6am. She also wakes up 3-4 times a night and will cry until someone comes to soothe her. She is a thumb sucker, leg presser and rubs her shirt when she needs to fall asleep..This has gone on forever at their home. But only with the 4 yr old.
The issue is that DCG comes here and then her behavior is horrible. I give 2 chances and then she has to lay down. Most of the time she will fall asleep for 3-6 hours. Lately, she is not sleeping here at ALL and is only getting about 6 hours of sleep each night at home.
I teach a pre-kinder program and she is one of the smartest kids I have here, but her lack of sleep is causing MAJOR issues.
I have asked the parents to talk to their DOC about it and I was told that the doctor was not concerned as no one can make anyone sleep. REALLY, so a child this age can suffice off of 5-7 hours of sleep for a 24hr period?? Yeah I think not, I know most adults can't even do that.
I have no clue what to do. What do you think could be the girls issue? Anxiety? I JUST DON'T know what to do anymore and I am afraid that I will not be able to prep her for kinder if they can't get the sleep issue under control.
any tips or advice, thoughts??
thanks so much
Cradle2crayons 02:05 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I have a child who just turned 4. I have had her since she was 16 months old and sleep has always been an issue.
I also have her little sister too.
DCG 4 can be strong willed at times, here she is mostly behaved, but at home or with parents it's like a 3-ring circus.
The issue, the parents CAN NOT get DCG4 to go to bed at night. She will lay down at 8-9 pm and not fall asleep until 11 or after and then wake at 530am or 6am. She also wakes up 3-4 times a night and will cry until someone comes to soothe her. She is a thumb sucker, leg presser and rubs her shirt when she needs to fall asleep..This has gone on forever at their home. But only with the 4 yr old.
The issue is that DCG comes here and then her behavior is horrible. I give 2 chances and then she has to lay down. Most of the time she will fall asleep for 3-6 hours. Lately, she is not sleeping here at ALL and is only getting about 6 hours of sleep each night at home.
I teach a pre-kinder program and she is one of the smartest kids I have here, but her lack of sleep is causing MAJOR issues.
I have asked the parents to talk to their DOC about it and I was told that the doctor was not concerned as no one can make anyone sleep. REALLY, so a child this age can suffice off of 5-7 hours of sleep for a 24hr period?? Yeah I think not, I know most adults can't even do that.
I have no clue what to do. What do you think could be the girls issue? Anxiety? I JUST DON'T know what to do anymore and I am afraid that I will not be able to prep her for kinder if they can't get the sleep issue under control.
any tips or advice, thoughts??
thanks so much
Melatonin to reset her sleep/wake cycle??I have a child who just turned 4. I have had her since she was 16 months old and sleep has always been an issue.
I also have her little sister too.
DCG 4 can be strong willed at times, here she is mostly behaved, but at home or with parents it's like a 3-ring circus.
The issue, the parents CAN NOT get DCG4 to go to bed at night. She will lay down at 8-9 pm and not fall asleep until 11 or after and then wake at 530am or 6am. She also wakes up 3-4 times a night and will cry until someone comes to soothe her. She is a thumb sucker, leg presser and rubs her shirt when she needs to fall asleep..This has gone on forever at their home. But only with the 4 yr old.
The issue is that DCG comes here and then her behavior is horrible. I give 2 chances and then she has to lay down. Most of the time she will fall asleep for 3-6 hours. Lately, she is not sleeping here at ALL and is only getting about 6 hours of sleep each night at home.
I teach a pre-kinder program and she is one of the smartest kids I have here, but her lack of sleep is causing MAJOR issues.
I have asked the parents to talk to their DOC about it and I was told that the doctor was not concerned as no one can make anyone sleep. REALLY, so a child this age can suffice off of 5-7 hours of sleep for a 24hr period?? Yeah I think not, I know most adults can't even do that.
I have no clue what to do. What do you think could be the girls issue? Anxiety? I JUST DON'T know what to do anymore and I am afraid that I will not be able to prep her for kinder if they can't get the sleep issue under control.
any tips or advice, thoughts??
thanks so much
daycare 02:15 PM 04-24-2014
sorry, I did forget to mention that I did suggest this to the parents, but they refuse to give it to her. They said they asked their doc and the doc said it was not necessary, let her sleep on her own. I wonder if the parents are down playing how horrible the sleep issue really is. I picture this girl sleeping through kinder............
Cradle2crayons 02:20 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
sorry, I did forget to mention that I did suggest this to the parents, but they refuse to give it to her. They said they asked their doc and the doc said it was not necessary, let her sleep on her own. I wonder if the parents are down playing how horrible the sleep issue really is. I picture this girl sleeping through kinder............
I've never heard of a pediatrician knocking down melatonin... And yes it does sound like mom and dad just don't care. Why would they... YOU are the one having to deal with her most of the day!!sorry, I did forget to mention that I did suggest this to the parents, but they refuse to give it to her. They said they asked their doc and the doc said it was not necessary, let her sleep on her own. I wonder if the parents are down playing how horrible the sleep issue really is. I picture this girl sleeping through kinder............
Until the parents have a reason to care they likely won't.
daycare 02:22 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I've never heard of a pediatrician knocking down melatonin... And yes it does sound like mom and dad just don't care. Why would they... YOU are the one having to deal with her most of the day!!
Until the parents have a reason to care they likely won't.
we have resorted to having her picked up when she is too tired to participate, but it has not changed anything. Last week we sent her home 3 times. All of them were in the morning too. I've never heard of a pediatrician knocking down melatonin... And yes it does sound like mom and dad just don't care. Why would they... YOU are the one having to deal with her most of the day!!
Until the parents have a reason to care they likely won't.
I can term if parents don't get on board, it will suck that I will be out her and her sis, but I can't continue to deal with this.
Kabob 02:23 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Melatonin to reset her sleep/wake cycle??
Yep my son had this exact issue and the only thing that worked was melatonin. His dr gave us a dosage and within the week he was on a normal schedule again. Melatonin to reset her sleep/wake cycle??
Maybe get a dr note? Maybe send them to the dr with a note stating your concerns and have him sign off on it? Maybe tell them they need a second opinion? I had to get a different dr for my ds before I got any answers....his previous dr just said it was normal but it was terrible and it led to night terrors and poor behavior.
If they aren't on board then I don't know what else to suggest other than send her home every time she is unable to participate due to lack of sleep...
Fortunately it was my own son with this issue in daycare so it was an easy fix since I was the one witnessing the results of his lack of sleep...
daycare 02:25 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by Kabob:
Yep my son had this exact issue and the only thing that worked was melatonin. His dr gave us a dosage and within the week he was on a normal schedule again.
Maybe get a dr note? Maybe send them to the dr with a note stating your concerns and have him sign off on it? Maybe tell them they need a second opinion? I had to get a different dr for my ds before I got any answers....his previous dr just said it was normal but it was terrible and it led to night terrors and poor behavior.
If they aren't on board then I don't know what else to suggest other than send her home every time she is unable to participate due to lack of sleep...
Fortunately it was my own son with this issue in daycare so it was an easy fix since I was the one witnessing the results of his lack of sleep...
I think that is a great idea asking them to see the doc again. She does go for her 4 year check up next week. I have never done that before, do I just fill something out addressing my concerns?Yep my son had this exact issue and the only thing that worked was melatonin. His dr gave us a dosage and within the week he was on a normal schedule again.
Maybe get a dr note? Maybe send them to the dr with a note stating your concerns and have him sign off on it? Maybe tell them they need a second opinion? I had to get a different dr for my ds before I got any answers....his previous dr just said it was normal but it was terrible and it led to night terrors and poor behavior.
If they aren't on board then I don't know what else to suggest other than send her home every time she is unable to participate due to lack of sleep...
Fortunately it was my own son with this issue in daycare so it was an easy fix since I was the one witnessing the results of his lack of sleep...
Kabob 02:32 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I think that is a great idea asking them to see the doc again. She does go for her 4 year check up next week. I have never done that before, do I just fill something out addressing my concerns?
Actually, Cradle2crayons gave me a great form for this. It basically has a part for you to fill out your concerns, behavior observed at daycare, and any special requests the parents have then the dr fills out a part stating his/her recommendations for meds, diet, etc and signs off on it. It helps prevent parents from claiming the dr said one thing when really they didn't even address the issue....and often the dr will just put down whatever the parents want so they can send them back to daycare anyway.I think that is a great idea asking them to see the doc again. She does go for her 4 year check up next week. I have never done that before, do I just fill something out addressing my concerns?
Maybe a probationary period if all else fails? They obviously aren't concerned since they don't have to see the behavior...
daycare 02:45 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by Kabob:
Actually, Cradle2crayons gave me a great form for this. It basically has a part for you to fill out your concerns, behavior observed at daycare, and any special requests the parents have then the dr fills out a part stating his/her recommendations for meds, diet, etc and signs off on it. It helps prevent parents from claiming the dr said one thing when really they didn't even address the issue....and often the dr will just put down whatever the parents want so they can send them back to daycare anyway.
Maybe a probationary period if all else fails? They obviously aren't concerned since they don't have to see the behavior...
C2C would you mind sharing this form with me? thanksActually, Cradle2crayons gave me a great form for this. It basically has a part for you to fill out your concerns, behavior observed at daycare, and any special requests the parents have then the dr fills out a part stating his/her recommendations for meds, diet, etc and signs off on it. It helps prevent parents from claiming the dr said one thing when really they didn't even address the issue....and often the dr will just put down whatever the parents want so they can send them back to daycare anyway.
Maybe a probationary period if all else fails? They obviously aren't concerned since they don't have to see the behavior...
Yeah every monday when the kids come back the DCD always says, I don't know how you do it 5 days all day with them, they are very naughty every weekend. the kicker, DCM does not work at all.........
Cradle2crayons 02:49 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
C2C would you mind sharing this form with me? thanks
Yeah every monday when the kids come back the DCD always says, I don't know how you do it 5 days all day with them, they are very naughty every weekend. the kicker, DCM does not work at all.........
No problem C2C would you mind sharing this form with me? thanks
Yeah every monday when the kids come back the DCD always says, I don't know how you do it 5 days all day with them, they are very naughty every weekend. the kicker, DCM does not work at all.........
can you pm me your email and I'll shoot it right over
debbiedoeszip 02:50 PM 04-24-2014
She sleeps up to 6 hours at daycare? No wonder she doesn't sleep at night. I'd only let her sleep a couple of hours while at daycare, and only after she cannot stay awake. She needs to reset her sleep schedule so that most of her sleeping is done at night.
I have the same issue with my teenaged DS. On weekends, he gets into the habit of staying awake all night and then sleeping all day. I have to force him to stay awake all day on Sundays (and yes, he can be a miserable so-and-so) so that he can break the cycle before Monday morning.
I have the same issue with my teenaged DS. On weekends, he gets into the habit of staying awake all night and then sleeping all day. I have to force him to stay awake all day on Sundays (and yes, he can be a miserable so-and-so) so that he can break the cycle before Monday morning.
daycare 03:02 PM 04-24-2014
she used to sleep at daycare for 6 hours in the past, lately she wont sleep AT ALL...so for the last several weeks she is only sleeping 6 hours at night at home. She is not napping here at all anymore
debbiedoeszip 04:27 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
she used to sleep at daycare for 6 hours in the past, lately she wont sleep AT ALL...so for the last several weeks she is only sleeping 6 hours at night at home. She is not napping here at all anymore
Oh, I see.she used to sleep at daycare for 6 hours in the past, lately she wont sleep AT ALL...so for the last several weeks she is only sleeping 6 hours at night at home. She is not napping here at all anymore
daycare 05:06 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by debbiedoeszip:
Oh, I see.
trust me I thought the same exact thing as you. I thought that she was not sleeping at night because of sleeping here, but there would be days she did not sleep here and then the cycle would just continue of her not sleeping resulting in a child that is almost next to impossible to control...Oh, I see.
debbiedoeszip 05:08 PM 04-24-2014
It sounds like a nightmare.
daycare 05:11 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by debbiedoeszip:
It sounds like a nightmare.
part of me is starting to wonder if it is more of a lack of parenting and that she is just fighting the sleep each night because she has that much control over her parents.It sounds like a nightmare.
I just don't understand how she can go on such a small amount of sleep and that the parents are ok with it, they don't seem to be concerned about it at all.....
debbiedoeszip 05:23 PM 04-24-2014
I don't know. She'd have to be super-stubborn to be able to will herself not to sleep when she's so sleep deprived. I'd investigate a medical reason as well as try behavioural modification at home.
daycare 05:33 PM 04-24-2014
This child has to be the MOST stubborn child I have ever met in my entire life. I don't think that I have ever met any person in my whole life that is more stubborn than this child. The sad part is that I believe that it comes from the dad, because the dad seems to be the same, just not as stubborn.
nothingwithoutjoy 05:49 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
part of me is starting to wonder if it is more of a lack of parenting and that she is just fighting the sleep each night because she has that much control over her parents.
Lack of parenting came to my mind, too...in this way: why is she going to bed at 8 or 9 when they know she's not getting enough sleep? I'd be getting her into bed at 7. In my experience, when kids are awake super late, it's often because they've missed the window in which they would have fallen asleep and have gotten a second wind. Would they consider an earlier bedtime?part of me is starting to wonder if it is more of a lack of parenting and that she is just fighting the sleep each night because she has that much control over her parents.
daycare 06:07 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by nothingwithoutjoy:
Lack of parenting came to my mind, too...in this way: why is she going to bed at 8 or 9 when they know she's not getting enough sleep? I'd be getting her into bed at 7. In my experience, when kids are awake super late, it's often because they've missed the window in which they would have fallen asleep and have gotten a second wind. Would they consider an earlier bedtime?
I mentioned exactly that to te parents too and they said dad doesn't get home from work until 8pm or after so this is why the later bedtime. Lack of parenting came to my mind, too...in this way: why is she going to bed at 8 or 9 when they know she's not getting enough sleep? I'd be getting her into bed at 7. In my experience, when kids are awake super late, it's often because they've missed the window in which they would have fallen asleep and have gotten a second wind. Would they consider an earlier bedtime?
I suggested trying at start time of 715 and then going from there. Try that time for two week and see how it goes then adjust it by 15 min if it didn't work.
daycare 06:08 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I mentioned exactly that to te parents too and they said dad doesn't get home from work until 8pm or after so this is why the later bedtime.
I suggested trying at start time of 715 and then going from there. Try that time for two week and see how it goes then adjust it by 15 min if it didn't work.
Thu never did anything about it.I mentioned exactly that to te parents too and they said dad doesn't get home from work until 8pm or after so this is why the later bedtime.
I suggested trying at start time of 715 and then going from there. Try that time for two week and see how it goes then adjust it by 15 min if it didn't work.
nothingwithoutjoy 06:18 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
Thu never did anything about it.
Grrrr. How frustrating.Thu never did anything about it.
choirlady76 06:25 PM 04-24-2014
Sorry you're having g to go through all of this and that poor girl will not only suffer academically and socially but physically and emotionally too. I'd suggest bringing it up to the parents again that they should take her to their pediatrician, if he's blowing it off perhaps you could suggest a good doc for her to see. This lack of sleep will begin to take a toll on her.
Leigh 07:05 AM 04-25-2014
She's not sleeping because she's not sleeping. Melatonin would be a great way to reset her clock.
Since the parents are not willing to do this, I would suggest to them that they cut out screen time completely for this child (which means the parents don't watch TV around her, either). I would guess that she is probably watching a lot of TV, and that is stimulating for her. They need to set up an environment for her that makes it easy for her to relax and sleep.
They can tell her right after dinner that it is time to wind down-give her a bath, put on her jammies, read some books. Even rock her to sleep for a while, if necessary! This kid needs sleep.
Since the parents are not willing to do this, I would suggest to them that they cut out screen time completely for this child (which means the parents don't watch TV around her, either). I would guess that she is probably watching a lot of TV, and that is stimulating for her. They need to set up an environment for her that makes it easy for her to relax and sleep.
They can tell her right after dinner that it is time to wind down-give her a bath, put on her jammies, read some books. Even rock her to sleep for a while, if necessary! This kid needs sleep.
daycare 02:36 PM 04-25-2014
Thanks to C2C I was able to print off the form and sent it off with the parents today. the child has a 4yr check up. keeping my fingers crossed that something comes through to help her out...
Mom of 4 03:13 PM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I've never heard of a pediatrician knocking down melatonin... And yes it does sound like mom and dad just don't care. Why would they... YOU are the one having to deal with her most of the day!!
Until the parents have a reason to care they likely won't.
If the kid isn't sleeping, the melatonin is a GOD SEND! My kids do not sleep well at all. It's unexplainable. They hated naps but even at night, w/o a nap, they can go go go. My Dr. started letting us give the kids melatonin (1.5mg ) at age 2. They are at 3mg. The trick is, once per month( A WEEKEND, obviously! LOL) they are to go off for a couple days and then start again (so that they don't develop a tolerance and it stops working at the lower doses). As they age, the dose adjusts, but even my 12 yo can take 3mg now and still go to sleep. Without it, they are tired, don't eat well, grouchy and stressed as ALL get-out, and overall, miserable. Also, kids NEED sleep to grow and function, just like us. The Dr. Explained that it was better to give them somthing like melatonin then for them to have other issues down the road. Furthermore, she said this is great option (not exactly clear on WHY or HOW it works, but it does) for those with ADHD/ADD and higher doses for kids with autism so that they don't need other medications. This is MUCH safer than the stuff those kids are getting these days.I've never heard of a pediatrician knocking down melatonin... And yes it does sound like mom and dad just don't care. Why would they... YOU are the one having to deal with her most of the day!!
Until the parents have a reason to care they likely won't.
daycare 05:13 PM 04-28-2014
YEAH it worked. thanks to your from I got the parent to agree to have the child start the melatonin . I hope that they actually start using it and the child gets to start sleeping. DCM said she gave 0.25 the smallest amount possible last night but child still went to sleep after midnight. Make me wonder if it really is more of a discipline issue