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Old 08-02-2011, 07:33 PM
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Default Help- Advice Please! (LONG msg)

I am posting here because I am at my wit's end. I am looking for advice about how to proceed with an issue at our child care center. My heart is literally broken, and all my "mommy senses" and sirens are going off. First let me explain the whole story. My DD is 2 and has been at our daycare all her life. The owner's child is her age and they are good friends. We were one of the first families to enroll when they opened, I am a teacher and I was very picky about where you placed our child. We have never had a problem, and I have defended the owner in some weird situations with parents, been to her home for birthday parties, etc. One of the selling points has always been the video monitoring system in the state of the art facility. It is not accessed from the internet, but we have always been told- offered even- that we just have to ask and we can watch any tape we want if we are curious about her day. I love this daycare so much I recommended the college age daughter of a fellow teacher for a job there. (We'll call her Betsy.) All was well, my child is blossoming and learning and loving going to "school" as she calls it. Until.... my daughter revolting one morning when I tried to hand her off to the teacher whose room is across from hers (we'll call her Susie). They commonly combine groups and work together. My daughter would not go to this woman- she was terrified. So I was watchful but did nothing- just assumed it was the everchanging whim of a 2 year old. Then Betsy came to babysit one evening. She was grief stricken, but felt she needed to "confess" to me some things that were going on with my child. This Susie teacher had given lots of kids nicknames- and not flattering ones. My daughter was "the devil" and another was "Hitler". I was shocked- and suddenly recalled my child telling me "I de debil, Mommy". I shooshed her and assumed it was something she heard in Sunday School, but I suddenly realized that she had heard someone CALL HER the devil. It got worse from there. My child has an unusual gait, her walk is a bit funny looking but her pediatrician says that is normal. Apparently during nap time the teachers sat around chatting. Susie and another teacher were making fun of my child's walk and mimicking her- saying she looked like "The Creeper" from that viral video that went around. So they began calling her "the Creeper'. The worst part is my daughter was AWAKE- and listening. She KNOWS that Susie doesnt like her and I ignored her signs of trying to tell me.

So after a sleepless night of sobbing and worrying, I went to the daycare. I spoke to the owner and asked to see the tapes. The owner was horrified and told me she would look into the issue immediately, and then told me what a troublemaker and undependable employee Betsy was. In hindsight- I should have DEMANDED to see the tapes right then. But I trusted her. I still do, I think. I don't know!!! Anyway, later that day the owner called me. She reviewed the tapes, and said that Susie did have unflattering nicknames for the kids, and she would be reprimanded. She also said the "creeper" thing didn't happen the way Betsy said it did. She fired Betsy for breaking their confidentiality agreement by telling me these things. I asked that my child not be in contact with Susie anymore, and all was settled. I felt terrible about Betsy losing her job, but believed that she was a college girl who embellished the story for shock value, not knowing how strong maternal instincts to protect our young are. My husband gets tired of hearing this whole story and asks the owner and her husband if he can see the tapes and settle the whole darn thing. The husband tells him they have to download them, and they will do that and have them ready for us Monday morning. (this was Friday) on Monday, the husband apologizes and says the tapes were accidentally recorded over- the system is "like a DVR and only has so much space" he says. If it's a DVR then why did they have to download it? We were suspect of this, but AGAIN we trust these people with our child and swallowed our doubt.

Cut to a month later. All is peaceful at daycare. The owner is heavily pregnant and I am about to go back to work for the school year. A form comes home to sign and return regarding a "change in the attendance policy". Along with current shot records, payment in full, etc. NOW to attend we have to sign a revised "Camera Policy". This is a lot of legal jargon, which basically says that going forward from today, for the privacy of students no parent will be allowed to view the tapes at any time for any reason. WHAT? This was a selling point for this center. In two years we asked ONCE and for "technical" reasons didn't get to see it.

I called the center and was told that the owner left on maternity leave and will not be contacted about daycare business for one month. The directors there are available during specifc hours, and of course they were already gone for the day. Another sleepless night and I go to the center this morning- my first day back at work this year. What excellent timing this all seems to be?!?!?! Maternity leave so we can't speak to the owner and teachers going back to work with no time to seek other care options. The director tells me that their attorney advised them that they needed to change this policy for the protection of the privacy of the children. I remind her of our issue, and she says she understands that this seems very FISHY to me, but it is all merely coincidence. Says they did not change this policy as a response to a parent asking to see a tape that they apparently KNEW held something very bad on it. My mind is going in circles- WHAT in the world was on that tape that they didn't want me to see? Every ounce of trust I gave them, the benefit of the doubt, all of that seems like a slap in the face now. The director said that this is a "New thing coming down from the state" (TN) that all centers will have to abide by, and that their competitor who has internet access to live stream videos will even have to stop doing that. I called a friend who heads up a large church childcare in our town and she has heard NOTHING about such a thing coming down from the state. She even called her state auditor and was told no such "thing" is in the works.

This all seems like a HUGE coverup and we are worried sick. I know that if we don't sign that form they are going to ask us to leave and find other childcare. My daughter loves that place- and we have not EVER had a problem until this one thing happened. I am not a complainer, I have been a huge supporter and fellow Mom with this owner. I understand her not wanting to be disturbed on maternity leave, but for the sake of her patrons I would think she (OR her husband for that matter) could pick up the phone and call. It just seems too suspicious, and every "spidey sense" I have is telling me something is very very wrong here. I feel guilty for having trusted her, I feel guilty for NOT trusting her, I feel awful for my child who loves her friends and teachers and fear how the stress of moving (if it has to come to that) will affect her. Right now we are just sitting back, waiting to see if the other director or the teacher mentions the form to us. I am stalling on signing it, because somehow it feels wrong- like I'm signing away my parental rights. If my child is being taped I should have the RIGHT to see the recordings. If I can't see them then what is their purpose? How do I know they aren't posting them on some messed up websites- if I can't see them how do I know??? I'm not sure if they receive state or federal money, but if they do they are bound by HIPPA and FERPA regulations to allow parental access to ALL student record (in any format)- just like public schools are. I am just at such a loss. My only concern is for my daughter- and now I am wondering if she is in a safe and loving environment or if they have been faking it for 2 years.

Any advice or professional opinions are welcome. I am floundering here- trying to figure out what to do. Don't think our current state of "stall until we can talk to the owner" is going to be allowed for long....

Last edited by Michael; 08-03-2011 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:55 AM
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Welcome to the Daycare.com Forum. I've upgraded your status.

Your story worries me. I would go with your instincts as something does not seems right. It sounds like they are worried that they could be liable for what could be viewed or misconstrued from their recordings. There are red flags here. They can not record your child without your permission. I would not sign the waiver. While they may want to keep an eye on their workers and children it must be a 2 way street for parents. I would have a lawyer look at it and I would also bring Betsy along.

Last edited by Michael; 08-03-2011 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:28 AM
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If I were in your situation I would pull my child and find other care. If you really don't want to do that, then you will need to begin doing some random checks on this center. Show up unannounced and observe what is going on. If they don't allow that or seem at all uncomfortable with it, that will tell you all you need to know.

If you are concerned about signing the form, find an attorney who knows the laws that apply in your state and consult with him/her about your rights. I would not want my child videotaped if I were not allowed to see the tapes.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:05 AM
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Please, please, please find another place for your child. They have showed you who they really are (people who openly mock children and lie to cover up their wrong doings) -- please believe them.

Your child's self esteem is CRITICAL at this age and she needs to be in a safe, loving environment with people who care for her and have HER best interests in mind. A state of the art facility is no reason to keep your child in an emotionally abusive environment. Learning is secondary to her CARE at this age. You need to find excellent CARE for her. If that is a nanny, in home, or small center, so be it. She needs to be somewhere she is loved and cared for each and every day.

I wish you luck and I hope you never take her back to that abusive place.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:54 AM
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Default Run don't walk to an attorney!

Dear Mommy3309,
#1 Pull you child today and get a new daycare. You never have a second chance for instilling in positive self esteem for your child. If your child overhead, then other children overhead as well and were probably calling her names. They were actually teaching children to name call others! That's disgusting! Pay what needs to be paid and leave it at that. It'll be worth every penny for your peace of mind. Honestly, mom to mom, I can't believe that you would even trust this daycare anymore after they didn't fire all teachers involved in the name calling - they fired the teacher who did the whistleblowing - that in itself is illegal!

#2 Call licensing immediately and report everything verbally and in writing, giving the exact story you just gave us. They will get fined and the report will be permanent public record. They are allowing teachers to verbally abuse these children with no discipline - they only got "talked to" - big deal - they'll do it again!

#3 Hire an attorney. They are covering something up and it's illegal for them to erase evidence after you requested to see it. It's reasonable from the circumstances to assume the owners changed their policy because of your family. I don't know the laws surrounding taping and viewing. But I agree, that because private individuals have access to those recordings, you can't guarantee that they aren't doing anything illegal with them. It's too bad you didn't hire an attorney ahead of time, because you could have gotten an injuction or order from a judge for those recordings. They're probably gone now but you never know. Some people have a weird infatuation with saving things like that for a trophy or something. The evidence might still exist - or a techy might be able to recover some or all of it.

#4 Get in touch and stay good friends with the college girl that ratted them out. The biggest red flag here is that they fired the only honest person who worked there! You need to be very thankful that girl told you because you would have never found out otherwise. And please listen to your child in the future. I had a similar thing happen with name calling my child and nothing was done to the teacher. The college girl needs to be a witness in your case. There's no such thing as confidentiality in this case. She was telling you what another teacher was illegally doing, not reporting other children's confidential stuff to you - they fired the whistleblower and this girl should sue for wrongful firing as well if she can find an attorney willing to take the case pro bono.

#5 Tell all of your friends and family and anyone locally to that daycare who will listen to your story. Go to the press if you need to and ask them to investigate. Legally, that teacher and all others participating should have been fired immediately on the spot, not just reprimanded. I really think that daycare needs to be shut down. They are condoning illegal activity!

I know how you feel. I've switched my family to several daycares over the years because of improper treatment. My kids have been labeled, experienced consistent unequal treatment, verbally abused, food withheld, food denied, been told I ask too many questions, bring up too many concerns, etc. It's been a nightmare. I wish you luck in your search and please keep us updated!
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:23 AM
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Listen to your inner gut, it's telling you that something is wrong. The safety and welfare of your child should come before the friendship with the director.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:36 PM
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I would not have kept my child there another day!!! I am surprised you are still questioning it after multiple things have happened to show that it is NOT a 'safe and loving environment.' 'Betsey' should have been praised for whistle blowing on ABUSE yet she was fired? WTH?! Oh I hope you remove your child. And I agree with everything in the previous post about following through with reporting, attorney, everything.
Susie might have been the instigator, but the others agreed, talked, laughed and kept their mouth's shut. Horrible behavior.
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:54 PM
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First, thank you all so much for your replies. It has helped me hold my resolve so much. Second- an update on the situation. My husband and I were up most of the night talking, and we decided that there is no choice really. We have to get our daughter out of that place.

I spoke to my attorney this morning and related the whole sordid tale. He said that although the incident with Susie was witnessed by Betsy, it will all be considered hearsay. He also said that since the daycare is a private facility and does not receive state or federal funds they are not held to FERPA laws, so they are within their rights to not allow parents to view the tapes. He also said we are within our rights to refuse to sign the form, but to be aware that they would then hold us in non-compliance with their attendance policy. That is actually fine with me, because hopefully they will ask us to leave immediately- and will not hold us to the two week notice policy they have. The attorney also said that although they are within their rights- he feels that the timing (the day before I go back to work for the school year, the owner starting her maternity leave) is more than a coincidence. He feels there is wrong doing they are hiding and although it wouldn't hold up in court he is going to assist me in filing complaints after my child is free and CLEAR of that place. He knows the owners family, and wants to assist because he feels that anything I say to other parents (I haven't spoken to any) or even this message should they so choose- could and WOULD be considered slander and they would press charges.

That being said...we sent my mother to pick up my daughter mid-day. The teacher asked her to remind me to sign and return the form. After work we went to tour another center (actually right down the road from the other one- and the one she considers her biggest "rival") and although the rarely have openings, they have one in the 2.5 year old room. Divine providence or the hand of God- I got all the reassurance I needed that I was doing the right thing in the moment the director told me they had a spot for us. We are giving our notice tomorrow, and we are trying to work it all out so that she can move immediately to the new center and never go back to the old one. I have a fear that they would be even more unkind if she goes back.

Anyway- thank you so much for all your responses. We are not through the difficult part- the transition with a 2 year old who thrives on sticking to her routines. But I am feeling so much better now that we have a resolution. The sting of betrayal by these people I trusted is still very raw- but we will move to the new center and my daughter will be fine.
Thank you all again. So glad I found this forum and was able to benefit from the wisdom of your experience!
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:39 PM
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Thanks for your update! Good luck with the new daycare and please give us a future developments with this story and your daughter.
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:43 AM
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It looks like you are on the right track making a change so that your daughter can be in a building that has online viewable cameras.

I don't know if you will be able to get out of the two week notice. They will most likely just allow you to attend without signing it knowing that it will just be two weeks before you move on. If they do that then you have to decide if it's worth the risk to have her in their care for the two weeks.

They will know that they will have a licensensing visit when you do leave. It's pretty commonplace for parents to turn the provider in when there has been a dispute. The one thing that will most likely lessen your complaint is your possible continued willingness to send your daughter there during the times when it is financailly advantageous to you. Think about THAT when deciding whether or not to eat the two weeks salary and just move her over.

There's not much probability that licensensing will have access to the tapes or even have standing to ask for the tapes. If the center isn't required by law to have them or keep the stored info there really isn't much the state can do about it. They can only talk to the center about how it is being sold to the parents and what they can do to rectify the conflict surrounding them. They have already put into place their solution and that solution will have to be good enough for the state because they can't MAKE them even have them much less give the info out to the parents.

Having cameras onsite is becoming increasinly popular because the cost to camera up the whole place is getting so affordable that even middle of the road centers can easily afford it. Right now... in these days... people are just trying to figure out WHAT to do with each element of it. It's a very new science in the world of day care so we will continue to see centers trying to manage it in a way that SELLS but does not harm the business.

The avenue they went which is having recordings of audio and video and just saying to the parents that they can watch them at will is about the safest thing they can do when it comes to offering it while not offering it when it is to the detrement of their business.

Now that you have been caught in the middle of being offered it and then denied it.. you can see how that kind of policy doesn't really work. It's one of those "it's good when it's good but not so good when it isn't" deals.

I own a consulting business and part of what I do in my business is watch cameras for centers and parents. I focus on specific rooms, specific children, specific staff... whatever I'm paid to do during that consultation. It's a huge learning curve and you may have just hit a business when they are trying to sort it all out. My guess is that they have come to realize that it's better for them not to advertise the cameras and just use them like every other business uses them.... for THEIR own protection.

Having cameras really really changes the dynamics of a day care. Having cameras where the owners just have access to the video causes a lot of conflict whenever things go down. But... and this is a biggie... there aren't too many businesses who go to the extent of video/audio surveilance and offer their tapes to their customers. It's a RISKY business offering it out onto the web and offering the recording capability to the parents. Once the parents have access to the content they WILL do with it as they wish. The technology is already here for parents to litterally record their kids whole day and do whatever they want with the recordings. There are other kids in the recording and staff so there's going to HAVE to be some laws and regs on privacy put in place to manage it.

These regs will happen over the next few years. There has to be situations where the rights of the other kids have been trampled and parents and staff have used the tape for their own purpose publicly. This is what will cause situations where the States will have to step in. I also think there will be states who require online viewable cameras for child care facilities and it will start with having centers who have been found in non-compliance wlllingly agree to allow the state to have online camera access as a way for them to stay in business. Then it will become a part of the regulations even for centers who aren't in trouble. I see this coming in five years as technology cheapens and parents demands for it increase.

I respect your concern for your child and I really DO get your thinking in each phase of this but for me... it comes down to very simple terms: you want your kid on camera and you want to have access to that. That's a very normal parental want now and you are lucky you have the ability to hire that out. Once you have your dd on camera you are going to feel much better about where she is and what she is doing.

Regarding your college friend... she most likely signed a confidentiality agreement when she was hired and her speaking to you was most likely a breech of that contract. She would have an obligation to notify the state if there was child abuse or neglect but it is unlikely that nick names...even ones that aren't appropriate... would rise to the level of abuse unless they were sexual in nature.
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:55 AM
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I am glad you got her out.

If you want to pursue this I recommend starting here: http://www.tnccrr.org/
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:55 PM
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Nannyde says: "it looks like you are on the right track making a change so that your daughter can be in a building that has online viewable cameras.

I don't know if you will be able to get out of the two week notice. They will most likely just allow you to attend without signing it knowing that it will just be two weeks before you move on. If they do that then you have to decide if it's worth the risk to have her in their care for the two weeks.

They will know that they will have a licensensing visit when you do leave. It's pretty commonplace for parents to turn the provider in when there has been a dispute. The one thing that will most likely lessen your complaint is your possible continued willingness to send your daughter there during the times when it is financailly advantageous to you. Think about THAT when deciding whether or not to eat the two weeks salary and just move her over."

Did you not read any of this post Nannyde? She did not mention anything about cameras at all in the new place. Nor did she mention calling licensing. You just assume that every parent who leaves any daycare will call licensing (gathered from your other posts.) You seem to have 2 or 3 issues you get on your high horse about and harp on them continuously. And oh so authoritatively. Getting old!
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Did you not read any of this post Nannyde? She did not mention anything about cameras at all in the new place. Nor did she mention calling licensing. You just assume that every parent who leaves any daycare will call licensing (gathered from your other posts.) You seem to have 2 or 3 issues you get on your high horse about and harp on them continuously. And oh so authoritatively. Getting old!
Mommy3330 said: The attorney also said that although they are within their rights- he feels that the timing (the day before I go back to work for the school year, the owner starting her maternity leave) is more than a coincidence. He feels there is wrong doing they are hiding and although it wouldn't hold up in court he is going to assist me in filing complaints after my child is free and CLEAR of that place.

After work we went to tour another center (actually right down the road from the other one- and the one she considers her biggest "rival") and although the rarely have openings, they have one in the 2.5 year old room.

The director said that this is a "New thing coming down from the state" (TN) that all centers will have to abide by, and that their competitor who has internet access to live stream videos will even have to stop doing that.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:32 PM
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Unregistered says..........

Did you not read any of this post Nannyde? She did not mention anything about cameras at all in the new place. Nor did she mention calling licensing. You just assume that every parent who leaves any daycare will call licensing (gathered from your other posts.) You seem to have 2 or 3 issues you get on your high horse about and harp on them continuously. And oh so authoritatively. Getting old!

mommy3309 says........

He feels there is wrong doing they are hiding and although it wouldn't hold up in court he is going to assist me in filing complaints after my child is free and CLEAR of that place.

I may not see eye to eye on everything with nannyde, but I have to agree with her in this instance.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:36 PM
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Rather that argue over semantics, the most import thing is the child is being removed from this facility.

I've seen parents file bogus complaints (which this one is not) and then wonder why the provider is terming them. I would not want a child here under those conditions and as hard as I might try, I would possibly treat the child differently - less praise, fewer hugs, etc. You know, "sins of the father" type thing.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:37 AM
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Rather that argue over semantics, the most import thing is the child is being removed from this facility.

I've seen parents file bogus complaints (which this one is not) and then wonder why the provider is terming them. I would not want a child here under those conditions and as hard as I might try, I would possibly treat the child differently - less praise, fewer hugs, etc. You know, "sins of the father" type thing.

That's retaliation! For you to even say that much less put it in writing, you should be ashamed of yourself. Your comment really gives providers a bad rep, really indicating that you do things below board. Too bad for you, really - I wish your parents knew how you talk on this forum. If you feel so strongly about it, you should tell your parents what you posted on this forum. It's a shame really and I feel sorry for the children in your care. How cruel. Time and again, it's a failure to realize that the child(ren) in your care is/are ours - not yours - and we're within our legal rights to question things and go to the state if we need to clarify things. Customers choose daycares to provide a service for them - not the other way around. First and foremost, parents need to be sure their children are safe. Good providers wear their big girl panties to work each day - bad providers retaliate against the children. If you can't handle parents getting second opinions on questionable circumstances, then you're a bad provider. Yet another reason I'd never hire a home based daycare provider. You'd actually intentionally give children in your care unequal treatment, unbelievable!
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