Dcb3 and dcg2 have been with me for about 5 months. They are mostly good here but are tiny terrors at home. They typically engage in minor behaviors at pick up but the behaviors are not disruptive so I don't get involved.

Today, I was very alarmed by dcb's behavior and, if it happens again, I would like to know how others would handle this.

At pick up, dcb asked his mom if his milk was in the car. She said, "no sorry dcb, I forgot to bring it today." They went back and forth about the milk for a minute and then the boy slapped her across the face.

Dcm didn't address the slap. She just continued to apologize for forgetting the milk. At that point, I wanted to step in. I am not okay with dcb being allowed to hit adults but I was so dumbfounded by the whole situation.

I did step in to rescue dcm by calming dcb down so they could leave without him completely melting down. I really wanted to get down at his level and tell that kid never to lay a hand on his mom again.

Anyone ever experience a situation like this? How did you handle it?

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"Stop!dcb !!
I won't let you hit ANYONE here. You will sit in time out while I talk to your mommy"
Then grab him. Put him on a spot and return to mom. Hugging her and whispering to her
"Be strong mom. And this won't happen again"

Then go to boy.
"You will NOT hit ANYONE here. Go home. I will see you tomorrow"
And walk him to his mom.
Be the adult for both of you.

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Yes, something should have been said; if not by dcm then you. Does she not usually speak up to him or is she a believer in ignoring the bad, praising the good? I find sometimes people go too far in ignoring the bad, thinking it'll just blow over and kids won't do it again. Dcm will become a doormat for her child if she allows stuff like that to happen. And it is your home so you still have a right to speak up. Maybe it's not too late to discuss the matter with dcm so that you're both on the same page the next time it happens?

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Yes I would have said something then to DCK. I agree with talking with DCM so that if/ when something like that happens again you will both be on the same page.

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Yes, I would have put him in time out for breaking the rule of no hitting in my home. Once upon a time, I did not discipline the daycare children when their parents were present, but somewhere along the line it became necessary because otherwise the children went hog wild while the parents just stood there helplessly. I have told children multiple time, "We don't _________ in this house, you sit here (time out spot) and think about it for a minute." Always the parents say, "We don't do that at our house either." And I think, yeah, right…. But regardless, I have stopped allowing abhorrent behavior just because of the parent's presence. And for the most part, the children have stopped behaving abhorrently just because their parents are here.

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Like others, I would definitely have said something FOR SURE!

However, unlike others I would not have said anything to DCB nor would I have engaged in any type of discipline. That is not my place to do when a parent is present.

I would have said to the parent that I don't allow children to be physically aggressive with adults on my property and that if she allowed it to happen again, I would need to terminate care.

I FULLY expect parents to parent while they are here. What they do at home is their business. But while on my property, they are expected to support my policies in their entirety. This is discussed in depth during interviews so my parents are fully aware of my expectations.


@Spedmommy If I were you, I'd find a time you can talk to daycare mom and let her know that she can parent in whatever way she chooses but that you will under no circumstances allow DCB to hit her when she is in your home or on your property. Its simply not okay. You aren't going to change how she parents her child but you can control how she parents on your property.

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I agree with all of the others as well. I would be telling her that it is never a time when it is ok to hit or hurt anyone. I don't get why parents ignore this kind of behavior. This child needs to learn the word NO and don't hurt anything.


My other main point would be that the other children will see his behavior and the parent not give a consequence for it. Monkey see, monkey do, and the other kids will do it to their parents too. Unfortunately, children copy what they see both good and bad and I can't have that taking place in my home.


I would have made child sit and time out and made dcm stand outside. When dcb time out was done I would have taken him to mom and tell her sorry this is never ok and it won't happen again.
I want the other kids that are still present to see me correct the situation and let everyone know that it is NOT ok.

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I had this happen. Dcg slapped mom for no reason, just because we were talking and she wasn't getting 100% attention on her

I said, "No, No Dcg! We do not hit people! We use soft hands!"

She started crying and of course her mom hugged her and acted like I was the bad guy. It is funny, because it made me want to smack mom too

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I have!
I told the dck that they are not allowed to treat others like XX. I used the excuse that they needed to follow all the daycare rules while on daycare property so I didn't feel like I was stepping over my bounds.
I wonder how all these kids are going to be as adults.... I wonder if they're going to be abusive to their spouses.

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I thought that too. Someone told me that your son will treat his wife like he treated his mother. So makes me wonder what is to come of them when they are adults and take a wife.

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My DCK's already know that I don't allow that type of behavior in my home so I don't need to show them I can parent someone else's child when the parent is standing right there.

I want parents to be their child's first and most important teacher.

I am here only to support them.




If I were the parent in this situation, I would have disciplined my child for hitting me but if I had chosen not to, I would be livid if a provider tried to discipline my child for me while I was right there without first talking to me.

I would have handled it my way and only expected or been okay with my provider trying to step in IF it were something that repeatedly happened at pick up. If it were only a one time thing like OP said, I would expect my provider to talk to me FIRST before overstepping boundaries.

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so if the parent doesn't parent their child when there you don't do anything?

I guess for me, I need that consistency every time. If hitting is allowed and my rule is you hit you sit, then that is what has to happen every time and all of my parents know this. so if they don't do it, I will. There can never be a time when this consequence does not occur and again my parents know this. They know this when they sign up with me that if they don't say something, I will.

I punish the parents too for not doing their job when they are here in my home. If they hit they sit and the parent waits outside. Bottom line, don't let it happen here.

I will allow for a parent to choose to handle it their way, but something must be done about it period.

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Nope. It's not my place to parent when the parent is present.

Once a parent arrives, their child is sent out to the cubby/coat room. The second they walk over that thresh hold, they are the parents responsibility to control/manage.

This is something that is discussed in depth during the interview so parents are FULLY aware of what I expect them to do in these situations.

Trying to make a child sit in time out after their parent has arrived would cause more chaos and disruption for everyone that it is not at all something I would ever consider getting into.

I also feel very strongly that parents are their child's first and most important teacher so it is vital they be allowed to do that. It might be difficult for some parents, especially those that are new to it but it's something they need to learn in order to be the best parent they can be for their child...and they'll need that skill as their child navigates childhood through high school.

If parents need resources on how to manage it or need support, I am their gal but I wont do it for them. The cornerstone to my program is that parents have specific responsibilities and so do I. I wont parent a child.

I will support a parent in parenting but I won't do their job.

If a child hits when they are in my care and I am the one in charge, I'll discipline for it but not when the parent is present. It's just not my job and it's not one I will assume either.

As a provider I would talk privately with the parent in regards to my feelings about a child hitting an adult and ask them to not allow it to happen again. If they did, I'd term for not being a good fit. But first I'd give the parent a chance to be the parent before just stepping in.

.....and from a parent perspective like I said earlier, if my child care provider told me I had to go stand on the steps outside while she disciplined my child, I'd pull my child out of that program that very minute.

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I can see your point and I we all work differently within our program after we find what works for us.

My parents are told at the time they enroll my expectations of them and their child. if they don't follow my rules and parent their child I will. SO they sign up knowing this and agree to it at that time. So if someone is not ok with me jumping in to have to do their job,then don't enroll your child with me. I am not overstepping any boundaries.

I can't make anyone do anything, but if someone fails to do THEIR job, I will have no problem doing it for them.

I can see this happening.

kid smacks mom across the face, DCM says nothing nor do I. All of the other kids in care see it happen. knowing my kids I bet you I have another child do it to their parent because they saw joey do it to theirs with no consequence.

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so if a kid is going nuts in your home, banging and crashing things or just being out of the control you don't say anything to the child?

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That doesn't happen here for a number of reasons.

Families are screened before enrollment. I also do a two week trial period so if I see their child behaving like that and the parent not stepping in to parent any time during the two week trial period, they wouldn't make it past that day.

I also have a set up that is much different than others.
My cubby/coat room is separated via a half door so there isn't anything that any of the other kids can see nor is there anything in that room other than my cubbies, a bench and the door.
There is nothing a kid can crash into, bang on or get out of control with. They can lay on the floor and thrash around but no one other than the parent (and myself) would see that happening.


Please don't think I'm bashing you in any way for doing things the way that work for you as well as the clients you serve.

I also do things the way that works best for me and the families I enroll but like I said previously, I believe the parent is the child's FIRST and MOST important teacher so I set up my rules and policies up to reflect that philosophy.

Like you said, any parent that does not agree with how you do things shouldn't sign up for your program. Its the same for me. Any family that feels I should step in and parent their child, probably shouldn't enroll in my program because it would go directly against what I do here and ultimately end up not working out.

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I don't mean to imply that my kids dont' get naughty...they definitely do at times...I was just replying in response to a kid getting all nuts AT pick up when their parent is here.

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I had a child smack their mom once when I first started out. I was shocked.
Mom did handle it though. But once the parent walks through my door to pick up their child, they go "off" my clock.
I set up my day care so that kids are not allowed near the front door unless they are leaving. I'm also not above using a gate temporarily to reinforce the boundaries. I sent the leaving child down the hall to mom with a wave, close the gate and go back to the other kids. I find taking away an audience really helps.

That said, As a parent it annoys me when others try to correct my child in front of me - sometimes in the heat of the moment I'm trying to take a step back and think through how to best deal with the behavior. Sometimes I find parents may be embarrassed and are just trying to quickly get out of the area so they can deal with their child privately. Any time someone has stepped in, I ultimately am more ticked with that person (for undermining my authority with my child) then I ever was with my child.

Rather than try to parent the child in front of their parent, I would see about making changes to my set up to make pick ups go more smoothly.

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Seeing the behavior has reached new levels, maybe enlist Nannyde's Bye Bye Outside program
That way dcm will have to do something about it to come back in, and the other children won't have to witness anything.
Works like a charm for me!

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let me correct myself when I say that i will jump in. Of course, I am going to give the parent every opportunity to do something about it. BUT if they don't, I will. I don't care how they handle it, they just need to handle it.

I won't let it go without something being said. I have had kids hit their parents here before and my need to not say anything at all because they told their kid no and took it outside. Great, I don't have to do anything. Thank you parent for doing your job.

But if a parent just stands there and does nothing, then this is when I jump in. but this is what works for me. i understand if it doesn't work for others, this is just how I choose to run my program and it works no problem.

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Yes, this is exactly what I meant as well. If the parent is handling the discipline, however they choose, then no need for me to say anything at all. But if the parent says or does nothing regarding extreme behavior, no, I won't let that pass. I don't consider it parenting the child, I consider it a continuation of my authority while they are in my home. If I ran into them in Target, and they slapped their parent while we were chatting, I would not do anything, that would not be my place. But a child I care for 10 hours a day, in my home? Yeah, they are not getting away with slapping anyone.

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I can see both sides. I wish I had a set up that allowed me to send the kid down the hall and say bye and be done! That would be so awesome, even just for the fact that I wouldn't have to talk to parents so much (some can be so chatty!)

I think the parent should always get the chance to parent their kid and I give it to them, but like others, if they do nothing, I will say something. I don't think it is undermining the parent's authority. I like to be a team with my parents, so if they need me to step in a handle it, I will. They tell me this by not doing anything about an obvious bad behavior. I actually get a lot of parents who almost look to me to handle it, because I honestly think they are unsure of what to do or how to discipline. If they say nothing, I will say it and it gives them an example of how to handle the situation int he future. Now, if they don't do anything and then get mad at me for doing something, I would terminate care, because we obviously are not a good fit. I don't think it is comparable to when total strangers do it you in a store. They do not spend 10+ hours a day with my child and they have no idea what type of parent I am. I get to know my parents really well, so they know that when I discipline their child (if they choose not to), it is coming from a good place and in no way meant to undermine their authority (and honestly, if your kid slaps you and you do nothing about it, you have very little authority in the first place).

I totally get other ways of doing it and again, I really wish I could separate my house so the child gets no chance to be bad when mom and dad come. I haven't had too much of an issue with it, but nannyde's bye bye outside is definitely a good way to avoid the situation altogether.

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The separation of my coat room and my main area is nice but not vital. It's just a perk that helps support my beliefs. I'd still do things the same even if pick ups/drop offs took place in the middle of my playroom.

The key is BOTH provider and parent knowing how it's going to be handled beforehand.

My parents know ahead of time that I won't step in.
Because I tell them that, stepping in IS undermining their authority.

If they don't know or weren't aware of my philosophies or were told that I would step in if they didn't deal with it, then I can see how stepping in would not seem like undermining at all.

So IMHO the key is to talk with parents and set up an outline of expectations of what will and won't happen BEFORE something like the OPs situation happens.

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So IMHO the key is to talk with parents and set up an outline of expectations of what will and won't happen BEFORE something like the OPs situation happens.

you think faster than me, probably type faster too...lol this is what i was trying to think to say but I couldn't....thanks BC, you always have the words

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I probably should have mentioned that the parents of these kids are pretty young. Early 20's is my best guess. Both have said at one point that they want their kids to like them.

Despite my coaching, I just don't think they have it in them to be firm and set boundaries with the kids. I suspect they will get there; the dcb has broken 3 big screen Televisions in the last year. Dcd is at his wits end.

Pick up went fine today. I doubt that mom will be forgetting the milk again anytime soon. After reading everyone's responses, I will intervene if it happens again. I don't think I will do it routinely but it makes sense with this family. They just don't have the parenting skills to handle the challenging behaviors yet. Maybe if I model a little of it will rub off.

I can hope anyway . . .

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I agree that communication with parents is key.

I've had situations in the past where kids were deliberately breaking rules to test me when parents were here, and I was not willing to let it slide. For example, before we converted our garage into the daycare room, I had my living room divided in half, and used half for daycare. Our furniture was fairly new at the time, and daycare kids were not allowed on it. A dcd was here for pickup one day, and his 3 year old climbed onto my couch, stood up, and started running on it, then jumped onto the love seat. Dad stood there. I said, "Dcb, is that something we do here?" Dad said, "Guess that's part of having children in your home, huh?" So, yeah, he was not going to intervene. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary to specifically tell parents ahead of time that their children weren't allowed to jump on my furniture--sheesh!

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Spedmommy, sometimes that's exactly what we have to do is model expected behavior for the parents in our home. I feel some parents are timid about speaking up in front of us, whether it's because they're not sure of the rules in our house, they don't want to appear mean in front of us by telling their child no , or what. That's where the open communication comes in handy.
This dcb, the one that hit dcm, broke 3 TVs???? Holy cow, they need to get a handle on him somehow! That dcb is going to keep testing them harder and harder until they snap and probably come down way too hard or he'll end up in juvvie cause they've been afraid to tell him no. (only half-kidding on this). That kid needs some serious guidance and consistency.
One added thought, maybe everybody should stop listening to all these so-called experts out there telling them to do this, not do this, never tell your child no, don't want to mess with his ego, blah blah blah, and start listening to their gut. It's plain wrong to hit your mother(or anyone else) and it's wrong to break a tv(let alone 3!!).

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I tend to agree with you. These two little ones were kicked out of their last childcare for behavior. (I knew this at enrollment) I had some minor behavior issues with dcb at the beginning but I put those to a stop quickly.

Once in a while the brother will go through a rule testing phase. My assistant and I have both learned to recognize when one is starting and it never lasts long anymore. He had a minor relapse this week and decided to rip one of my books and hide all the kids water bottles. It was over when he had to put every single bottle back where it belonged and then fix the book. (No fun :)

To have 100% success here, I would need the parents to follow through at home. Though it's unfortunate, I think dcd or dcm is going to have to snap before I can get them on board with trying a different method.

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I have intervened for this behavior here too. I have a VERY willful two year old girl enrolled here. To leave my house, you have to go through the main living space and I have a leather couch in there. It's a kid no-no and they all know that. At pick up, my willful 2 year-old girl jumped up on my couch and ran across it with her dirty shoes on. Mom looked at her helplessly so I told dcg to get down and something along the lines of "that is teachers couch. It's not for dcg." She got down and mom was amazed.

It's not magic; its consistency.

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I laughed at that to hard!!

I always tell the kids, and in front of their parents, that they are still in my house and we dont act like that here, even if mom or dad are here. Even though ive had a hard time with my own ds, i still put him in timeout when parents are here, it also shows the parents that I, as a parent, dont put up with that stuff.

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I would be upset if someone stepped in while I was disciplining however, as this parent was NOT disciplining, I would have def. said something. At one point, I would have felt uncomfortable doing this but not anymore. If parents are not going to do it, then absolutely I will step in and say something.

And then I would probably send an email or have a little discussion with mom afterwards, reminding them that daycare rules still apply while they are on my property, xyz behaviour is not acceptable and that pick up time is a time when all children will challenge authority. That I fully expect them to parent once they arrive.

So I guess I would step in if need be, remind parent that they need to be the authority figure once they arrive and then expect that it wouldn't happen again.

I remember feeling a bit uncomfortable disciplining in front of others with my first but got over that pretty quick.

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I would say to the child "Don't you EVER hit your mom in my house again. We don't hit our mom, ever." (stern look) Then I'd hope mom backed me up. If not, so be it. I wouldn't put them in time out though.

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