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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>So Sad And So Wrong, What Should I Do?
daycare 08:58 AM 11-07-2011
Sorry, its a little long....
This weekend I got to spend some time with my husbands family. While I was there, we got on the topic of how my niece is doing in her new home daycare. She started there full time back in August.
A little history, back in July, she was in my daycare for a few days, her parents are divorcing and she has some special needs. I cared for her until my MIL found her a place that sounded like a "great provider" that works with special needs children.
The DC also runs a learning/preschool type program. My SIL and MIL were showing me some of her work she has done at DC. Oh btw she just turned 4 two weeks ago. She can not communicate well and is no where near potty trained.
One of the items was a piece of colored paper sectioned off into four squares with the numbers 1-4 written on it out of order. She was made to glue the proper amount of pumpkin seeds into the corresponding number square.
I was really taken back that someone who claims to know how to teach to think that this would be an age appropriate project for a child of her age.
My SIL goes on to tell me that because she did it wrong, the DCP put her in time out. Conversation goes on and I am told that every time she gets an answer wrong or does not do her work she goes to time out. Free play is not often and that most of the time its all about academics.
My MIL pulls out this huge 2.5inch 3 ring note book and it is full of a million worksheets. All of them are graded. Like you would see in first grade or higher. One example she got 22/30 correct. All of the ones that were wrong the DCP drew sad faces on them and then NO in bright red on a lot of them as well. She also has to do homework nightly.....And it's once again worksheets.
I tried to give them my two cents about it, but just to get ignored. I told them how important play is at this age, how important it is to focus on her verbal skills and learning to cope with her feelings, and so on and so on..
Also going on, the DCP has been texting my SIL daily that her child is getting into trouble, not doing her classwork and is refusing to listen, this is all new behavior from her. She is also getting bitten at least 2x or more a week. The DCP has a large license and I believe 2 other helps. There are 4 to 5 infants in attendance almost daily.
Again I tried to explain all of the negative affects that this brings on my niece, that the DCP is hurting and not helping. I want them to pull her out of there.
I know that If I can find the right things to stay to my SIL and MIL they will listen. I just can't believe how horrible this place sounds. Sounds like to me this DCP has no idea how to teach children and sounds like she has spread herself way too thin..
How can I help? What should I say or do? I am so upset about this. I just want to really get my Niece out of there. I don't know if there is anything that can be done about the provider punishing the kids for not doing classwork, which frustrates me even more. No child should be punished for this.
This weekend I got to spend some time with my husbands family. While I was there, we got on the topic of how my niece is doing in her new home daycare. She started there full time back in August.
A little history, back in July, she was in my daycare for a few days, her parents are divorcing and she has some special needs. I cared for her until my MIL found her a place that sounded like a "great provider" that works with special needs children.
The DC also runs a learning/preschool type program. My SIL and MIL were showing me some of her work she has done at DC. Oh btw she just turned 4 two weeks ago. She can not communicate well and is no where near potty trained.
One of the items was a piece of colored paper sectioned off into four squares with the numbers 1-4 written on it out of order. She was made to glue the proper amount of pumpkin seeds into the corresponding number square.
I was really taken back that someone who claims to know how to teach to think that this would be an age appropriate project for a child of her age.
My SIL goes on to tell me that because she did it wrong, the DCP put her in time out. Conversation goes on and I am told that every time she gets an answer wrong or does not do her work she goes to time out. Free play is not often and that most of the time its all about academics.
My MIL pulls out this huge 2.5inch 3 ring note book and it is full of a million worksheets. All of them are graded. Like you would see in first grade or higher. One example she got 22/30 correct. All of the ones that were wrong the DCP drew sad faces on them and then NO in bright red on a lot of them as well. She also has to do homework nightly.....And it's once again worksheets.
I tried to give them my two cents about it, but just to get ignored. I told them how important play is at this age, how important it is to focus on her verbal skills and learning to cope with her feelings, and so on and so on..
Also going on, the DCP has been texting my SIL daily that her child is getting into trouble, not doing her classwork and is refusing to listen, this is all new behavior from her. She is also getting bitten at least 2x or more a week. The DCP has a large license and I believe 2 other helps. There are 4 to 5 infants in attendance almost daily.
Again I tried to explain all of the negative affects that this brings on my niece, that the DCP is hurting and not helping. I want them to pull her out of there.
I know that If I can find the right things to stay to my SIL and MIL they will listen. I just can't believe how horrible this place sounds. Sounds like to me this DCP has no idea how to teach children and sounds like she has spread herself way too thin..
How can I help? What should I say or do? I am so upset about this. I just want to really get my Niece out of there. I don't know if there is anything that can be done about the provider punishing the kids for not doing classwork, which frustrates me even more. No child should be punished for this.
youretooloud 09:08 AM 11-07-2011
We have a lady in my neighborhood that does that too. She's really into worksheets and "doing it right" and "following directions". No painting or drawing allowed.
laundrymom 09:10 AM 11-07-2011
What state? Licensed?
daycare 09:33 AM 11-07-2011
yes she is LIC for 14 in CA
Sugar Magnolia 09:39 AM 11-07-2011
NOT age appropriate! I have a preschool program, but there is NO "wrong" answers, only "let's look at it again and try again". Drawing sad faces? Grading? That's lame. Time out for "wrong"? TOTALLY LAME! You can't teach a child anything by shaming them! You did your job by telling the MIL and SIL that's not age appropriate, nothing else you can do. That's soooooo sad. (((((Hugs)))))
daycare 09:48 AM 11-07-2011
I should have explained the background a little more about my niece.
Her dad and mom are is a very very nasty divorce, custody battle and my niece has suffered a lot, has been abused by dad and had to watch mom get abused by dad too. She is being tested for autism and has already been diagnosed with echocallia. (sP)
The last thing she needs is another negative environment. This is why i want them to get her out of there...
The only thing that my MIL and SIL are focused on is "oh look at how smart she is, she can do these worksheets"
Her dad and mom are is a very very nasty divorce, custody battle and my niece has suffered a lot, has been abused by dad and had to watch mom get abused by dad too. She is being tested for autism and has already been diagnosed with echocallia. (sP)
The last thing she needs is another negative environment. This is why i want them to get her out of there...
The only thing that my MIL and SIL are focused on is "oh look at how smart she is, she can do these worksheets"
Nellie 10:12 AM 11-07-2011
I may be completely wrong, but when ever I here about things like this the first thing runs through my mind is that this provider is a "want-a-be teacher". I don't have an early childhood degree, but I would imagine that this is NOT the way to go about teaching young children. She hasn't taken the time to go through school to be an actual teacher and this way she can "teach" and feel important.
laundrymom 10:16 AM 11-07-2011
This is the only thing I can find in your regs that addresses the type thing you described. However,... Can I just say thank you for sticking up for your niece. I feel the way she is being treated, along with the others in this lady's care, is not right. She should be playing learning laughing, growing.....
(a) Each child receiving services from a family child care home shall have certain rights that shall not be
waived or abridged by the licensee regardless of consent or authorization from the child's authorized
representative. These rights include, but are not limited to, the following:
(1) To be treated with dignity in his/her personal relationship with staff and other persons.
(2) To receive safe, healthful, and comfortable accommodations, furnishings, and equipment.
(3) To have parents or guardians informed by the licensee of the provisions of the law regarding
complaints and the procedures for registering complaints confidentially, including, but not
limited to the address and telephone number of the licensing agency's complaint unit.
(4) To be free from corporal or unusual punishment, infliction of pain, humiliation, intimidation,
ridicule, coercion, threat, mental abuse, or other actions of a punitive nature, including, but not
limited to: interference with eating, sleeping or toileting; or withholding shelter, clothing,
medication or aids to physical functioning.
(a) Each child receiving services from a family child care home shall have certain rights that shall not be
waived or abridged by the licensee regardless of consent or authorization from the child's authorized
representative. These rights include, but are not limited to, the following:
(1) To be treated with dignity in his/her personal relationship with staff and other persons.
(2) To receive safe, healthful, and comfortable accommodations, furnishings, and equipment.
(3) To have parents or guardians informed by the licensee of the provisions of the law regarding
complaints and the procedures for registering complaints confidentially, including, but not
limited to the address and telephone number of the licensing agency's complaint unit.
(4) To be free from corporal or unusual punishment, infliction of pain, humiliation, intimidation,
ridicule, coercion, threat, mental abuse, or other actions of a punitive nature, including, but not
limited to: interference with eating, sleeping or toileting; or withholding shelter, clothing,
medication or aids to physical functioning.
daycare 10:20 AM 11-07-2011
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
This is the only thing I can find in your regs that addresses the type thing you described. However,... Can I just say thank you for sticking up for your niece. I feel the way she is being treated, along with the others in this lady's care, is not right. She should be playing learning laughing, growing.....
(a) Each child receiving services from a family child care home shall have certain rights that shall not be
waived or abridged by the licensee regardless of consent or authorization from the child's authorized
representative. These rights include, but are not limited to, the following:
(1) To be treated with dignity in his/her personal relationship with staff and other persons.
(2) To receive safe, healthful, and comfortable accommodations, furnishings, and equipment.
(3) To have parents or guardians informed by the licensee of the provisions of the law regarding
complaints and the procedures for registering complaints confidentially, including, but not
limited to the address and telephone number of the licensing agency's complaint unit.
(4) To be free from corporal or unusual punishment, infliction of pain, humiliation, intimidation,
ridicule, coercion, threat, mental abuse, or other actions of a punitive nature, including, but not
limited to: interference with eating, sleeping or toileting; or withholding shelter, clothing,
medication or aids to physical functioning.
Thanks for posting this.... I think what this provider is doing falls under section 4...This is the only thing I can find in your regs that addresses the type thing you described. However,... Can I just say thank you for sticking up for your niece. I feel the way she is being treated, along with the others in this lady's care, is not right. She should be playing learning laughing, growing.....
(a) Each child receiving services from a family child care home shall have certain rights that shall not be
waived or abridged by the licensee regardless of consent or authorization from the child's authorized
representative. These rights include, but are not limited to, the following:
(1) To be treated with dignity in his/her personal relationship with staff and other persons.
(2) To receive safe, healthful, and comfortable accommodations, furnishings, and equipment.
(3) To have parents or guardians informed by the licensee of the provisions of the law regarding
complaints and the procedures for registering complaints confidentially, including, but not
limited to the address and telephone number of the licensing agency's complaint unit.
(4) To be free from corporal or unusual punishment, infliction of pain, humiliation, intimidation,
ridicule, coercion, threat, mental abuse, or other actions of a punitive nature, including, but not
limited to: interference with eating, sleeping or toileting; or withholding shelter, clothing,
medication or aids to physical functioning.
e
I am so upset about this...AND very upset with my SIL and MIL that they don't see anything wrong with this..
I know that they are clueless, but they really think that its not big deal.....
Blackcat31 11:11 AM 11-07-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
Thanks for posting this.... I think what this provider is doing falls under section 4...
eI am so upset about this...AND very upset with my SIL and MIL that they don't see anything wrong with this..
I know that they are clueless, but they really think that its not big deal.....
Ya know in the provider's defense, she may be teaching in the same manner she was taught. Seems a majority of time when things like this occur, it is due to the provider/teacher not knowing the why behind the curriculum and doing what she had done to her. Thanks for posting this.... I think what this provider is doing falls under section 4...
eI am so upset about this...AND very upset with my SIL and MIL that they don't see anything wrong with this..
I know that they are clueless, but they really think that its not big deal.....
NOT saying it is right, but in all honesty we only know one side of the story.
I provided child care for several years not really knowing any other way to "teach" the children than the way I did it. I had no idea what DAP even meant or what appropriate practice was.
I belong to a few different child care forums and I have to say that on all of them I read posts where the provider says "This is how I do things ....." and I cringe but I also have to remember that not every one licensed to provide care for children always understands the correct way to do things. They still sell boxed curriculums that are nothing but worksheets and rote learning so why would a provider not think it is ok to teach like that when she is buying it from "professionals"...kwim?
After all, take a look at some of the requirements to be a provider....they are laughable in most areas so the way this provider is running her program is really not that off....
Aside from a few red flags, she really isn't doing anything anyone wouldn't do that completed only the basic requirements.
If I were in your shoes, I would take this opportunity to network with this provider and maybe get to know her. You could help her (carefully) learn new ways to teach and she could help you feel more comfortable about where your niece is attending. I have met many area providers by simply making the initial contact with them and pretty soon we are chatting, and sharing info about how we do things and learning from each other.....kind of like being on this forum.
daycare 11:37 AM 11-07-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Ya know in the provider's defense, she may be teaching in the same manner she was taught. Seems a majority of time when things like this occur, it is due to the provider/teacher not knowing the why behind the curriculum and doing what she had done to her.
NOT saying it is right, but in all honesty we only know one side of the story.
I provided child care for several years not really knowing any other way to "teach" the children than the way I did it. I had no idea what DAP even meant or what appropriate practice was.
I belong to a few different child care forums and I have to say that on all of them I read posts where the provider says "This is how I do things ....." and I cringe but I also have to remember that not every one licensed to provide care for children always understands the correct way to do things. They still sell boxed curriculums that are nothing but worksheets and rote learning so why would a provider not think it is ok to teach like that when she is buying it from "professionals"...kwim?
After all, take a look at some of the requirements to be a provider....they are laughable in most areas so the way this provider is running her program is really not that off....
Aside from a few red flags, she really isn't doing anything anyone wouldn't do that completed only the basic requirements.
If I were in your shoes, I would take this opportunity to network with this provider and maybe get to know her. You could help her (carefully) learn new ways to teach and she could help you feel more comfortable about where your niece is attending. I have met many area providers by simply making the initial contact with them and pretty soon we are chatting, and sharing info about how we do things and learning from each other.....kind of like being on this forum.
The thing is, is that this lady is not open to talking with me at all...Ya know in the provider's defense, she may be teaching in the same manner she was taught. Seems a majority of time when things like this occur, it is due to the provider/teacher not knowing the why behind the curriculum and doing what she had done to her.
NOT saying it is right, but in all honesty we only know one side of the story.
I provided child care for several years not really knowing any other way to "teach" the children than the way I did it. I had no idea what DAP even meant or what appropriate practice was.
I belong to a few different child care forums and I have to say that on all of them I read posts where the provider says "This is how I do things ....." and I cringe but I also have to remember that not every one licensed to provide care for children always understands the correct way to do things. They still sell boxed curriculums that are nothing but worksheets and rote learning so why would a provider not think it is ok to teach like that when she is buying it from "professionals"...kwim?
After all, take a look at some of the requirements to be a provider....they are laughable in most areas so the way this provider is running her program is really not that off....
Aside from a few red flags, she really isn't doing anything anyone wouldn't do that completed only the basic requirements.
If I were in your shoes, I would take this opportunity to network with this provider and maybe get to know her. You could help her (carefully) learn new ways to teach and she could help you feel more comfortable about where your niece is attending. I have met many area providers by simply making the initial contact with them and pretty soon we are chatting, and sharing info about how we do things and learning from each other.....kind of like being on this forum.
I tired when my niece was going to start there a few months back..
I am just appalled that someone would punish a child, especially one withe special needs for such a reason...
This is not ok..
Kaddidle Care 12:09 PM 11-07-2011
Time out for getting the wrong answer? Outrageous!
Every child is different and that activity isn't out of reach for a lot of 4 year olds. We use some worksheets too but a lot of things we teach with are games and activities. But to be PUNISHED for not getting it right? Big NoNo.
This person is setting this child up for failure.
I can't believe any parent would allow this to continue. It's time to give the Teacher the
faces. I would be asking about what else is going on in the classroom and I would also be making a surprize visit and peeking in from outside the door to see what goes on.
Every child is different and that activity isn't out of reach for a lot of 4 year olds. We use some worksheets too but a lot of things we teach with are games and activities. But to be PUNISHED for not getting it right? Big NoNo.
This person is setting this child up for failure.
I can't believe any parent would allow this to continue. It's time to give the Teacher the
faces. I would be asking about what else is going on in the classroom and I would also be making a surprize visit and peeking in from outside the door to see what goes on.
SilverSabre25 12:27 PM 11-07-2011
I feel so sad for your little niece, and in a way, almost sadder for your MIL and SIL who are so blind, or possibly ignorant, that they think that this is a good environment for any child, let alone your niece.
Time out for getting a wrong answer is terrible. Homework for a flipping four year old is terrible. Grading and sad faces for a four year old is terrible (and not that great for any age).
I do a some worksheets with my 4 yo daughter during "big kid school" time twice a week (homeschool preschool really) but we work them together and I help her get the right answers...because that is teaching. I help her understand. She's interested and she does very well, and we stop when she says she is done.
Time out for getting a wrong answer is terrible. Homework for a flipping four year old is terrible. Grading and sad faces for a four year old is terrible (and not that great for any age).
I do a some worksheets with my 4 yo daughter during "big kid school" time twice a week (homeschool preschool really) but we work them together and I help her get the right answers...because that is teaching. I help her understand. She's interested and she does very well, and we stop when she says she is done.
CheekyChick 01:42 PM 11-07-2011
At this age, learning should be FUN. The DCP could ruin your niece's love of learning for life. To put her in a time-out is abuse, in my opinion. I would BEG your SIL to remove her immediately.
kendallina 01:59 PM 11-07-2011
Yikes! I am so sorry for your niece and the situation that she's in. Obviously, as you already know, this is completely inappropriate for her age (although i don't really think the number/pumpkin seeds activity is necessarily age in-appropriate, but obviously, the punishment is very inappropriate).
As for how to talk to your SIL about this I really have no idea... it really sounds like they are trying to compensate for their daughter's special needs, by allowing this type of 'learning' to go on...as in, "look, she's ok, she can do worksheets,"...as you mentioned.
Are they aware that she has special needs? Are they receiving services for her special needs? Any service provider that was informed of what was going on at her daycare would certainly explain to the parents that this is not appropriate. I wonder if their service provider (if they have one) knows what kind of daycare she's in?? She may also qualify for free preschool services if she has a diagnosis, which would help get her out of her current situation.
What an awful situation to be in, ugh...
As for how to talk to your SIL about this I really have no idea... it really sounds like they are trying to compensate for their daughter's special needs, by allowing this type of 'learning' to go on...as in, "look, she's ok, she can do worksheets,"...as you mentioned.
Are they aware that she has special needs? Are they receiving services for her special needs? Any service provider that was informed of what was going on at her daycare would certainly explain to the parents that this is not appropriate. I wonder if their service provider (if they have one) knows what kind of daycare she's in?? She may also qualify for free preschool services if she has a diagnosis, which would help get her out of her current situation.
What an awful situation to be in, ugh...
momofboys 02:18 PM 11-07-2011
The grading/punishing is totally inappropriate; however, I know several kids who could easily glue the proper number of seeds to correlate with the numbers. I don't think the activity was inappropriate at all - it seems completely right for 3 or 4-year olds.
daycare 02:28 PM 11-07-2011
I agree that the project was ok, but she has special needs, does not have any ability to even communicate.
This is her first time in a learning enviornment and it was way above and beyond what she herself is capable of.
I have kids here that can count 30+ items at age 3.
I just can't believe they are punishing her for this...
This is her first time in a learning enviornment and it was way above and beyond what she herself is capable of.
I have kids here that can count 30+ items at age 3.
I just can't believe they are punishing her for this...
Heidi 02:30 PM 11-07-2011
You said your niece is currently being evaluated for Autism. If she is working with a developmental physcologist, can you ask your SIL to PLEASE PLEASE, JUST FOR ME BECAUSE YOU LOVE ME, take the binder to the next appointment? If she won't believe you, she may believe the "expert".
Crystal 02:30 PM 11-07-2011
Just curious, why isn't she with you?
Michelle 02:44 PM 11-07-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
I agree that the project was ok, but she has special needs, does not have any ability to even communicate.
This is her first time in a learning enviornment and it was way above and beyond what she herself is capable of.
I have kids here that can count 30+ items at age 3.
I just can't believe they are punishing her for this...
Have the parents check out their local public schools,I agree that the project was ok, but she has special needs, does not have any ability to even communicate.
This is her first time in a learning enviornment and it was way above and beyond what she herself is capable of.
I have kids here that can count 30+ items at age 3.
I just can't believe they are punishing her for this...
If she is autistic or learning delayed, she totally qualifies for free special ed. preschool.
They will teach her life skills, potty training, proper eating, socialization, and also educate her. They are trained to help her and they have small groups.
They will even trasport her to and from home.
daycare 03:09 PM 11-07-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Just curious, why isn't she with you?
my SIL lives with my in-laws and it would be almost 3 hours total driving time daily to bring her here with me.Just curious, why isn't she with you?
Plus, I honestly in my heart of hearts do not think that I could meet her needs. I don't have any special training in what she has and even the few days she was with me, it was the hardest 3 days of my life.
She is being evaluated with the school district in a few weeks here. I had to set it all up for them because they dont think that she needs it.
I really have had a lot to do with my Niece since I found out about the abuse and have even forced my SIL into parenting classes, but they just seem to still be in such denial about her issues.
I have to be her voice because no one else is.....Which this frustrates me even more..
Hunni Bee 08:56 PM 11-07-2011
How wrong. I don't believe in worksheets for littles anyway. I send home one worksheet a week, and thats basically just so the parents have something to go on when they review what we did over the week.
NO worksheets in the classroom. My director visited another daycare once and heard the children regurgitating alphabets, and decided that our children weren't "learning" enough. She tried to force us to have then sitting down for long periods pouring over worksheets, and kept saying "they can play at home". Fought that tooth and nail.
This woman probably thinks she's making up for all the lack of stimulation and experiences your niece got at home from being parked in front of a DVD all day. But she's going about it all wrong. Your niece may have the concentration and brainpower to complete worksheets correctly, which is great. But her social skills are being ignored, and when she's sent to time-out for getting it wrong, she's being taught to feel inept all around.