We have a just turned 3 yo dcb who has been with us for about 5 months. He is the youngest, we have one 3.5 dcg, one 4.5 dcb, and 5 just turned/or almost 5 yo dcks (4 boys, 1 girl).

His mom believes he is developmentally delayed, but I am not sure. He talks very well, knows all of his letters, numbers, colors, shapes very well. He is learning to write his name, and follows one and 2 step directions.

However- he is a hitter. And the way/reasons he hits reminds me of a 1.5/2 yo. He hits, scratches, and kicks when he is frustrated, someone gets too close to his toy, when he is tired, when someone is in his way, and also when he thinks it is funny (I know this because he gets a smirk on his face, then kicks at, hits, pushes, etc the person, then laughs). Healso doesn't hit hard- hard enough to be very annoying but hasn't ever hurt anyone (again, in a way that is more slapping at like a 1/5 or 2 yo) But everyone is SICK of getting hit by him - today I swear he put his hands inappropriately on someone at least 50 times.

He has never hit, kicked, or pushed me or my assistant, but I have seen him push and hit at his mom.


No one ever takes his toys, or hits or pushes him. We haven't ever really had a problem w/ hitting here.

For the frustration we have been teaching him other methods to cope with frustration (talking to the person, getting a teacher, moving to another area, etc). This seems to be working somewhat and has gotten somewhat better in those situations.

We have told him that no one will take his toys, and they haven't, and hitting in that situation seems to be getting a little better, but we are still having problems w/ it when he is tired.

Overall the hitting has escalated since the beginning so I worry it is something we are inadvertently encouraging here. Even thought he isnt hitting as much when frustrated, I cannot get him to stop pushing people who are between him and what he wants, and I cannot get him to stop hitting for the fun of it. I am not sure what to do! I have tried talking, redirection, sit down not as fun activities, TO.

Today it was pretty crazy- hitting, kicking at people, pushing, and just touching all day long! Every time he puts his hands someone inappropriately today I said "Oh no, we don't hit, if you hit you sit" I have said it so much today the other kids are going around chanting "if you hit you sit!". We have a new 4 yo dcg today and the first thing he did was hit her, for no reason!

Any ideas? I was thinking that tomorrow if he hits one time he will have to be my shadow for the rest of the day.

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I would get on his level, look him in the eye and directly state, "No hitting!" and place him in time out. If he isn't hitting you or your assistant but IS hitting Mom he is obviously capable of differentiating who he can get away with hitting.

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Have you been able to identify his triggers and give him an alternative behavior?

So like which observing him you see him getting amped up when another kiddo starts playing closer to him than he's comfortable with....you walk up and say to him "I see you are looking a little (angry, frustrated, sad, overwhelmed)"......"what do you think you could do that would make you feel a bit better right now?"

If a kiddo has never been given alternatives they're not going to know to do anything other than lash out.

Suggest he scooch over, ask the other child politely to back up please and if all else fails go get Ms. Daycare lady to ask for help.


It's going to take time but by repeatedly offering alternatives that will lay the foundation to him learning there are other ways he can handle situations that get his goat.

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I have been doing that today- I may just need to keep it up longer.

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Offering alternatives has helped a lot w/ the frustration and toy sharing lashing out- what is not getting better (and seems to be getting worse) is the pushing because they are in between him and what he wants and the hitting and inappropriate touching for the fun of it. I am not sure how to stop those two!

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For the pushing can you role play? Tell him you want to help him practice that scenario. Set up a whole row of kids in front of the toys he wants, make it a game that he has to ask, with a please, for them to move. Then practice him moving around them. Retrain his brain that when he encounters that situation there is a different avenue he can take to solve his problem.

As for him keeping his hands to himself does he do this to tick others off? Or because he doesn't know how to ASK others to play with him? Is his family pretty touchy feely? What is your perspective, because all would need a different approach to snub it most likely.

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I don't think he would understand role play he is pretty concrete and doesn't do much imagination play. When he pushes someone I do make him go back and re-go where he was trying to go again appropriately. He just hasn't seemed to make the connection yet. It doesn't seem like he is trying to upset them, just that they are in his way and pushing past them is the fastest way to get where he wants to get. I am mainly worried about it for August when our 3 of our 5 yo go off to kindy and we have a 1.5 yo, 2 yo and 2.5 yo starting. They will be littler than him (he is pretty solid anyway) and if he pushes him the way he does the big kids it will knock them down.

As for keeping his hands to himself I don't think he is ticked off (he usually laughs after and/or has a smirk), he knows how to ask others to play with him and does ask when he wants to (he is very verbal and has a huge vocabulary!) I watched today at p/u and he pushed at his mom w/ his feet, threw himself on the floor, and threw his shoes. She just said "DCB, your so silly, do you want to see mommy be silly? Then she copied him and said "See isnt that silly, that's what you look like" I think she is trying to get it to stop but doesnt know how.

I do think he is touching inappropriately to get out of things he doesn't want to do. I have never seen him do it when he is free-playing (he usually chooses to free plays alone and does not want anyone near him, or to play with him) but even when he does choose to free play with another child I haven't ever seen him touch inappropriately.

He usually does it :

when he is at the table eating - when he is probably full but doesn't want to get down yet. (kicking under the table, putting his hands in his neighbors face/plate/pushing over their cup) - for this I say "you can be excused now" and escort him to the bathroom to wash up.

when he needs to be doing a non-free play activity (like looking at books after a meal so I can clean the tables, during art or learning activities, during the non-singing parts of circle time, etc) - for this I set him back from the activity near me where I can watch him and keep him a body length away from any child. He doesn't seem to mind sitting next to me doing nothing.

in line waiting for the bathroom to wash up before a meal- for this I have him sit out of the line until the line is gone then to go last. He doesn't seem to mind this either.

when he is supposed to be picking up toys if I take my attention off him to 2 seconds to address another child- for this I shadow him to the best of my ability as I do not want him to get out of picking up because he hit/pushed.

I'm not sure where I am going wrong, but somewhere I think because instead of staying the same or getting better it is getting more frequent. (actually the pushing is probably the same, it is the hitting when bored/for attention/ to get out of stuff (whatever the reason is, but when he is not mad about anything) that is getting MUCH more frequent.

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Give me a two yr old over a three year old anyday! Lol
I could be completely off base but here are my thoughts. The boy hits or pushes and he seems to be getting a Big reaction. When he does it to mom she puts on a show! When he does it to his friends he gets a whole bunch of one on one time. He misbehaves at the table- he can get down, he doesn't have to stand in lines... He gets to stand with you. IMO I would try NO interaction for this behavior. Obviously it needs to be dealt with but with no eye contact and no verbal. He hits at the table he is simply pushed back away from everyone and can sit there- he hits or pushes in line be sits in a chair while you continue interacting with the others. He pushes through people - he gets placed in a sitting spot. He will get the idea-
Hth

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I have a saying here, if you hit, you must sit......it's simple rhyme that even a child can remember. They have to sit away from the group and I give them 3-4 legos to play with in a hula-hoop, then I walk away. I will not say anything to them during this time.

I try my hardest to be proactive instead of reactive by taking a day and observing the child in our environment and learning what is triggering the child to react that way.......

I have a lot of kids that are pretty horrible to their parents, but never behave that way here.

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I tried a big reaction today - NO NO We do NOT hit! Then directing to TO. That didn't seem to work for sure!

Tomorrow I will try no reaction, but still consequence. We will see if it gets better or worse

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I agree with this. He is getting a HUGE payoff when he acts out. Take away the pay off and he will quit.

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I don't do hitting. Since time outs are not working then the child will be my shadow all day. And I mean, you sit with me, you go into the kitchen with me. They are with me so much that they will hate it. But I remind them why they are with me. I don't even give a second chance. One chance and action is taken, the more chances you give the more they will do.

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When he pushes his way through to get what he wants STOP him and tell him since he chose to push to get what he wanted, he doesn't get what he wants. When he hits for the "fun of it" talk to him about how he would feel if his friends were doing that to him. Typically the child would say he wouldn't like it. Then ask him what he would or wouldn't want to do about if a friend hit him for no reason. typically you'll get " I wouldn't want to play with him" or "I'd want to hit him back" ask him if he would like for his friends to make one of those choices because he hit them.....how would he feel if they didn't want to play with him anymore, or hit him back. Make him use critical thinking skills to figure this out.

Then.....ask those questions to the "victim" in front of him when it happens. "Sally, I saw Johnny hit you. How did that make you feel?" "Sally, what do you think Johnny can do to make this better?" or "Sally, what do you want to do about this?" Typically she'll say she doesn't want to play with him. You can then tell Johnny that "I heard Sally say she doesn't want to play with you because you hit her. You need to find something else to do for now. You can ask Sally later if she wants to play with you, when you decide not to hit her anymore."

Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

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I totally agree that this would work for most 3 yos (including our 3.5 yo, even 6 months ago it would have worked) but there is no way he could think through to an answer on a question like that. He is very verbal, but he doesn't really have any critical thinking skills - he is instant freak out mode the instant something is not working such as a trucks whose wheels stop, or a box that wont open. He talks all day long, but it is just surface stuff- this is my car, look at this picture, i want to color, etc. If I ask him questions about what he wants or what he did he will answer, and he is a great copier, but if I ask him about feelings, or thoughts, or anything abstract he is totally lost.

I guess my main problem is that I would correct an 1.5/2 yo a lot differently than a 3 yo for these issues. With an 18 mo I would shadow, shadow, shadow and make sure there weren't opportunities to hit until the behavior went away. With any other 3 yo it would be an instant TO- we do not tolerate hitting here! The TOs don't seem to be phasing him, he just patiently sits through it and then goes back to the behavior. Shadowing him hasn't worked either - he seems to like all the one on one attention and is happy to sit to the side (and reach out for any child who passes too close to hit/kick at them!) He doesn't seem to understand talking it through, or other people's feelings.

I don't think he is doing it spitefully or because it's fun to be mean (like an older child sometimes will). I don't think he understands that other people have feelings at all. When a child yells at him for pushing past them he acts like they are in the wrong for yelling for no reason (I truly dont think he understands that they had a reason, that he pushed them and that they are reacting to that). When he messes with them- hits at, kicks at, ect- he doesn't like it when they get mad. He thinks it is funny, and entertaining to swipe at people as they pass or hit at a neighbor when he is bored of doing whatever we are doing.

For example today after snack the kids were reading books while we cleaned up. They read until everyone is up from the table, then I go in and read a story to them. He sat for maybe 2 minutes nicely,(I was checking on them about every 1 minute since he had been hitting so much today, I normally would have just made him start out sitting in the kitchen where i could see him but I thought maybe he was enjoying that too much), then apparently between check at 2 minutes and check at 3 minutes he started airplaning his book, then he took his book at hit his favorite friend over the head with it. His friend (5.5 yo boy) came and told and when I went in dcb was sitting smiling. I asked if he hit his friend, he said yes (still a smile). I said "oh no! your friend is very sad, he doesn't like to be hit" (still smiling) "you need to come and sit in the kitchen and wait until I am done clearing the table". He did a little pretend fit, then he went and sat nicely and happily until I was done clearing.

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EVERYTHING you're talking about in your above needs to be taught.

Critical thinking skills need to be developed. A young child's initial reaction to frustration and anger is to lash out. You need to *teach* him a different better way to react.

Role play doesn't have to have anything to do with imagination. In fact the very premise is to create concrete trails in the brain, alternative pathways. Right now those alternatives don't exist so the goal would be to create and reinforce them .

Show him another way, make him practice another way. Repeat the sequence enough it will become second nature to him. He will react in the way you want him to without him even thinking about it at all but first you have to challenge what he already knows and does.

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Okay- we can def try that with the pushing to get where he wants to go and for lashing out, but what about hitting because he is bored/for the reaction/excitement? How do I get him to stop being physical w/ the other kids every time I have to have him wait? (as in he is done w/ the activity but the other kids are finishing up, or waiting in line for bathroom, or waiting for me to clear the table)? In my above example (about the books) how should I address that? What is an appropriate alternative to teach him in that example?

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I think I had this child!!! He was a almost 3 yr old boy- (be actually just left in June and I sighed relief!). He was SO SWEET- except he had no boundaries at all!!! And very little self awareness- he too could talk well and shocked me with his abilities at our pre-school project/activities! However- he had a really low cognitive ability. I couldn't have a convo with him... He would tell me things but if I tried to ask questions he was lost. He was very physical and if he wanted something he just pushed thru whatever to get it... He didnt see or understand that he was pushing his friends. He would sit in TO or with me as happy as could be with no idea why he was there... I tried EVERYTHING I could think of and I couldn't get through to him. He was exhausting but really not trying to be mean- he just didnt get it!
I hope some of these ideas work for you!! Will you keep us updated so I can learn as well??

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It does sound like the same child! He is very sweet, just doesn't seem to get it. Is truly heartbroken when someone is mad at him, but doesn't seem to get that he keeps making them mad w/ the same stuff! I will say "its so sad that..." and he makes the same sad face as me and says "so sad" but I can tell he doesn't really get it.

He has a very gifted upper elementary sister and mom says she has no idea what to do w/ any behavior he has as his sis apparently learned everything the first time it was ever shown to her and never had a bad behavior her whole life. When dcb came here at 2.6 he couldn't put on his shoes, blow his nose, dress or undress himself. He had been at a daycare where he was the oldest and the provider had 7 dcks by herself (all under 2.5). When I asked mom about the lack of self help skills she said she just never thought about teaching him Didn't realize how old he was getting and that he should be learning those things.

When he started here he knew all his letters, letter sounds, and numbers up into the teens (by sight, not just the songs) but didn't know any shapes or any colors. He is just so all over the place in milestones, behaviors, and skills that I don't know where to place him age-wise.


Honestly I think I am more lost now than when I posted! Not sure if I should be more firm verbally, or ignore verbally/just give consequence, talk to him about it, shadow him, have him shadow me, ahhggg!

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Same kid!!! Oh boy... that's what I've got! Lol
Yes- the one I had baffled me as far as where he was developmentally! I would think I had figured it out and bam! NOPE!! And his family was/is the same way!!! But he was able to learn to do the self help skills...
His mother literally follows him around where ever they are... (Small community)- she is the one parent I didn't understand when she would keep him home on her days off because I could get NOTHING done when he was here!! Lol.
Good luck and keep me posted!! He may came back a few days a week this fall!

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I talked w/ dcm about this Tuesday and she said he will hit and throw things at her, but not sister or gma. She said she does TO for it (but I have seen him do it to her here and she ignores the behavior or makes light of it). She also said that it is because he is growing/ has allergies/ is tired...

I suggested more quiet time if he is getting that tired and offered to take him in for quiet activities after 1/2 hour of outside time. She said she would prefer I didn't as "children only grow when they are active and he is growing now because it is summer and we are outside more". Plus (she puts in as a side note) he has been very content to lay on the floor at home all evening sucking his thumb until bedtime because he has been so tired.

I told her I was going to have him be my helper/shadow until the behavior was under control and she said she understood I would do what was best for the group and not her child, but that she suggested that I not make him my helper/shadow because this behavior is worse this week because he was with gma over the weekend and she gave him lots of one on one and she dcm does not ever give him that much attention so he is just seeking out attention so that is why he is hitting

She suggested I should ignore him as much as possible so he can get used to not getting attention again and to send him to TO every time he does any of these behaviors.

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Whether DCB know and/or understands that hitting is NOT ok doesn't matter if mom is going to continue reinforcing the fact that it works. She is allowing him to hit and then makes an excuse for it....THAT action right there will negate anything else he knows/understands.

All he is focusing on is that hitting works with mom. That is a powerful thought-process for him. SHE (DCM) is the issue impo.

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Thank you! That was my thought too, but I thought that maybe I was wrong as I have read on this forum that lots of daycare providers don't have problems w/ kids who have very different home rules not following the rules at dc.

I wrote a note to mom today on his daily report that today he has been throwing whatever is in the hand at whoever is closest every time he is told to do/not do anything and that regardless of growing, allergies, tiredness we cannot have him throwing things, hitting at, or kicking at others. Told her I used TO today every time he did it and that she will need to continue to work with him at home so we can get this issue corrected!

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Since her go to response is to ignore, I'd ask if it's ok to give her phone number out to the other parents of the children he is hurting because they are rip roaring ticked and are taking you to task over it. Tell her that perhaps her explanation will sit better if it's coming from her.

Ask her if another child was *assaulting* her son would she be ok with you just ignoring that situation because frankly you can't blame the other parents for feeling so strongly, especially given his age and the fact that he should know better by now.


(I would absolutely use strong words like assault and be sincere when I asked for permission to give out her phone number).



I have a 13 month old very active and able bodied boy who a couple if months ago thought it great fun to tackle another same aged little girl. Dads favorite activity in the evenings was to quite roughly wrestle around with him and mom was betting that was the cause but dad just laughed it off. I told mom after a particularly challenging day to tell dad that I had asked to confirm dads cell number because the little girls dad was ticked off and wanting to have a word with the father of the little boy. Dad knew little girls dad was 6'+, bulging muscled, three tours in Iraq/Afghanistan, army recruiter who doesn't take bull from anyone and would protect his girls at all cost.

Little boys tackles stopped after just two days

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The other dc parents are actually upset about it because their children are complaining to them daily! We have a brand new 4 yo dcg who got hit with a book in the head her first day on monday, a 4 yo boy who swore to his parents that the scratch on his back was from dcb (it wasn't it was from sliding off the slip and slide into the grass, but he had been hit by dcb so many times that day I'm not suprised he thought that, and told his mom the same).

This DCB is really a joy when he wants to be- but when anything is "off" he starts these behaviors. When he is getting tired, when he is getting sick (mom will NEVER admit he is sick, she told me one time he gets fevers all the time and not to bother her at work about it ), when the weekend went different, when our day is not exactly the same. Unfortunately this is more times than not lately! In the last month or so w/ all the summer activities at home and here he has had about 1 "normal" day a week, and 4 "off" days. I really don't want to term if we can get him back to "normal" as he is a joy when he is, but I can't loose other kids over it either. AND on top of it I have 1 other DCB (posted in the Behavioral Intervention Plan post) from another family who is constantly touching others and will set this one off and he will start hitting. Not used to this, we have always had pretty good luck with a good group of kids!! Uggg!

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She told me that she wants me to put him in TO every time he does it (she actually ignores the behaviors from what I have seen but SAYS she does TO)

If my note today does not spur her on to helping to correct it/ at least realizing it is serious then I am going to tell her that the other parents are complaining about it and" frankly I can't blame the other parents for feeling so strongly, especially given his age and the fact that he should know better by now."

I am going to put the other DCB on an intervention/notice plan for his behaviors so I might as well just write up 2 of them and get it over with!

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Would it be really hard to get a replacement? You are risking losing all your good kids...I would term and find another DCK. It doesn't sound like mom is going to work on these issues.

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No it wouldn't- I get calls all the time, even when I am not advertising, especially this time of year! I just am too nice, and my hubby (and dc partner) is wayyyy nicer than me! He never wants to term anybody, no matter what.

I want to term (or have the issues drastically improve) with both this dcb and the other dcb5 that we are having issues with. We have one other that is a mess and 1/2 but he leaves for K this year If we did that I think we could get back to a daycare that I enjoyed being in, and be able to focus at least a little time on my own kids! Right now I feel like I can't even take a break 11 hours a day because it takes 1 of us to watch the other and 1 to make sure this boy is not hitting and the other is not touching inappropriately

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