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  #1  
Old 06-13-2014, 01:07 PM
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Default Help! I Made a Big Mistake

When I first started doing daycare, I thought it would be a great idea to send a parent email each day with pictures. I had everyone sign a photo release and stated that I would not use for advertising or social media. The email idea died away and I totally forgot about the photo release. Fast forward 6 months down the road and all my families had friended me on facebook so I started using it to send pictures and made a parent only group.
I just gave notice to one family this week and they are a little pissy. They asked for copies of everything they had ever signed and when I was getting it together I found the copy of it. The mom friend requested me, I tagged her in the pics and quite often she liked and commented on them. They asked me to take all his pics down which I have and want me to sign a statement for that. But now I'm realizing that I didn't fulfill the agreement. How much trouble am I in? I am really freaking out.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:28 PM
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What part of the agreement did you not fulfill? You said you took down the pictures.

If they signed an agreement saying that they understood you would use the pictures for advertising and social media, I don't see how they can dictate that you remove the photos, but I could be wrong.

I also wouldn't be comfortable signing any statement that says that I removed ALL of their child's pictures. What if he's in the background of another child's picture? Or if his foot or arm is in a photo?

Last edited by sahm1225; 06-13-2014 at 01:29 PM. Reason: added
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:29 PM
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Did the agreement specifically say it was only for emails? Or just giving you permission to take pics as long as they weren't used for advertising?
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:31 PM
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I would remove the pictures but I would NOT supply copies to them of everything they signed. They had an opportunity to make copies of those things when they enrolled BEFORE turning them into you.

You shouldn't have to have the expense of copying those things.

I would also send them written confirmation that all photos have been removed from Facebook. Then I would unfriend them and have NO further contact with them. period.

No copies, no signed statement. nothing.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:33 PM
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The original statement said I would not use them on social media.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sahm1225 View Post
What part of the agreement did you not fulfill? You said you took down the pictures.

If they signed an agreement saying that they understood you would use the pictures for advertising and social media, I don't see how they can dictate that you remove the photos, but I could be wrong.

I also wouldn't be comfortable signing any statement that says that I removed ALL of their child's pictures. What if he's in the background of another child's picture? Or if his foot or arm is in a photo?
She said she signed an agreement that she would not use the photos for advertising or social media. I think that's what she's talking about in not fulfilling the agreement?.

I agree with bc, unfriend them and cease contact with them.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Go play! View Post
The original statement said I would not use them on social media.
DCM doesnt get to complain AFTERWARDS.

She should have brought up her concerns WHEN you posted the pictures.
Instead she enjoyed them and said nothing.

She doesn't get to go back and say it wasn't ok now...kwim?
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:43 PM
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Completely ignore. BC has great advice.
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2014, 01:53 PM
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What Bc said ......
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2014, 02:20 PM
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I would remove the pictures but I would NOT supply copies to them of everything they signed. They had an opportunity to make copies of those things when they enrolled BEFORE turning them into you.

You shouldn't have to have the expense of copying those things.

I would also send them written confirmation that all photos have been removed from Facebook. Then I would unfriend them and have NO further contact with them. period.

No copies, no signed statement. nothing.
Yes this.

I personally copy everything for my new clients or at any time that I have them sign any new documents or are updating any forms. I give them a new pocket folder every year with copies and call it a day.

After that if they lose it, oh well. I don't make copies for them of ANYTHING after I have already given them to them. The ONLY exception is a W-10. I give those willingly but if they lose the copy I prepare for them then they need to provide me with a blank form and a check for $25 for having to go back and redo the work and fill out a new form. If they really wanted copies of everything I might be enticed to do so but only for a fee PER PAGE.

Even if you don't already give them copies of anything (and if you aren't required to give them copies, I'm not) then I wouldn't give them copies now. I would do as BC said and just remove the photos.

Personally I wouldn't give them a written notice saying that the photos are removed because you never know if a parent might have saved any of the photos and may repost them or maybe has a photo of her child with that child and posts that picture. What if you accidentally missed one? So for these reasons I would just take them down, call her and ask her to go through the feed to check and make sure that she is happy then ask HER to sign a form for ME saying that she is satisfied that all photos are removed and I would keep that form. I would not sign a form for her.

JMPO
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I would remove the pictures but I would NOT supply copies to them of everything they signed. They had an opportunity to make copies of those things when they enrolled BEFORE turning them into you.

You shouldn't have to have the expense of copying those things.

I would also send them written confirmation that all photos have been removed from Facebook. Then I would unfriend them and have NO further contact with them. period.

No copies, no signed statement. nothing.


I'm fairly certain that if they replied on those pictures, you would have evidence that there is implied consent. I wouldn't even have agreed to take them down, probably. They've probably already "shared" them with half the world.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:23 PM
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Yes this.

I personally copy everything for my new clients or at any time that I have them sign any new documents or are updating any forms. I give them a new pocket folder every year with copies and call it a day.

After that if they lose it, oh well. I don't make copies for them of ANYTHING after I have already given them to them. The ONLY exception is a W-10. I give those willingly but if they lose the copy I prepare for them then they need to provide me with a blank form and a check for $25 for having to go back and redo the work and fill out a new form. If they really wanted copies of everything I might be enticed to do so but only for a fee PER PAGE.

Even if you don't already give them copies of anything (and if you aren't required to give them copies, I'm not) then I wouldn't give them copies now. I would do as BC said and just remove the photos.

Personally I wouldn't give them a written notice saying that the photos are removed because you never know if a parent might have saved any of the photos and may repost them or maybe has a photo of her child with that child and posts that picture. What if you accidentally missed one? So for these reasons I would just take them down, call her and ask her to go through the feed to check and make sure that she is happy then ask HER to sign a form for ME saying that she is satisfied that all photos are removed and I would keep that form. I would not sign a form for her.

JMPO
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Heidi View Post


I'm fairly certain that if they replied on those pictures, you would have evidence that there is implied consent. I wouldn't even have agreed to take them down, probably. They've probably already "shared" them with half the world.
I would even screen print the pictures showing that they liked and commented on the pictures.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:38 PM
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I would even screen print the pictures showing that they liked and commented on the pictures.
I think it's too late now. I think she says in her post that she was asked to take them down and so she has.

Because of the possibility of me giving waivers for clients to sign and then later the partnership going sour and the parents asking me to remove photos from social media, advertisements etc. my waiver says that it is non-revocable. This way if they sign the waiver and if I use their child's photo on my website, flyers, social media etc. they can't come back later and ask me to take them down and not use them. Once a parent signs my waiver any photos, video, sounds or written communication is mine to use until forever.

It's the 2nd page of the document:
Permission Agreement
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:46 PM
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I think it's too late now. I think she says in her post that she was asked to take them down and so she has.

Because of the possibility of me giving waivers for clients to sign and then later the partnership going sour and the parents asking me to remove photos from social media, advertisements etc. my waiver says that it is non-revocable. This way if they sign the waiver and if I use their child's photo on my website, flyers, social media etc. they can't come back later and ask me to take them down and not use them. Once a parent signs my waiver any photos, video, sounds or written communication is mine to use until forever.

It's the 2nd page of the document:
Permission Agreement
Oops! Missed that!

I like that your form is irrevocable. What a pain that would be to have to redo everything because they want their child removed.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MV View Post

Personally I wouldn't give them a written notice saying that the photos are removed because you never know if a parent might have saved any of the photos and may repost them or maybe has a photo of her child with that child and posts that picture. What if you accidentally missed one? So for these reasons I would just take them down, call her and ask her to go through the feed to check and make sure that she is happy then ask HER to sign a form for ME saying that she is satisfied that all photos are removed and I would keep that form. I would not sign a form for her.

JMPO
Good point!
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2014, 03:50 PM
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Oops! Missed that!

I like that your form is irrevocable. What a pain that would be to have to redo everything because they want their child removed.
This is exactly why mine is non-revocable. Newspapers and photographers do it all of the time so I figured why can't I?
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2014, 04:29 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I did get some screen shots of her liking and commenting on photos before I took them down. Even if she has a case, I am not going to help her so I will only be sending the health forms which are transferable. I guess then a leave me alone text will be next. I have gotten 7 today reminding me that she needs different things.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:43 AM
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I would definitely let her know that the health forms are the ONLY things you are giving to her; she is entitled to nothing else. She got copies before, and perhaps she should have kept better track of those things. Not your problem she didn't. Hopefully she doesn't text you again. Can you block texts once you send her the "Now that you have what I am giving you, leave me alone" text?
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:14 AM
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I will share my story. I've shared before but this case is very similar to mine.

I would def take screen shots of her liking them, commenting, sharing, etc. To show that she was fully aware and in fact enjoyed them and didn't have an issue at the time or she would have immediately said to take them down.

Here's why: I had a family with 2 boys in my care. I had them sign a photo release, including a separate section GIVING SPECIFIC PERMISSION FOR FACEBOOK. Both parents were friends on my DAYCARE ONLY page. Commented daily on the pics, LOVED the pics, and shared lots of my pics of their kids, saying things like "love the pics!" "they are having so much fun!" etc. Their families and friends also commented and liked the pics. The parents loved seeing the pics on FB and never had an issue UNTIL THEY LEFT, then they found LOTS OF ISSUES!

They went to licensing, it was a long drawn out ordeal. One of the things was that they suddenly had a problem with their kids being posted on FB even though they specifically signed saying it was ok!

Licensing was not at all pleased with me. I thought I had covered my bases with my permission form. I had to remove ALL pics with ANY PART OF THEM IN IT! My licensor didn't care that they signed a waiver. She said children's privacy issues are a HUGE issue! Even with permission. My daycare page is for families only, but the issue is the liking and the sharing and the tagging. As much as I did my part to keep the pics private, once parents are tagged or they like or share, then the pics are now visible to THOUSANDS of people, friends, friends of friends, etc. So basically they are now PUBLIC!!

I did not get cited on it, but it left a very bitter taste in my mouth. I had to remove all their pics like I said. I of course blocked them and anyone related to them that had commented on my pics.

I now have a much different agreement with parents regarding FB. They are not allowed to tag or share, if they do their access to my page will be removed. I also have BOTH parents sign, and will not post without permission from both parents.

I don't think you should be providing copies, since it is QUITE LIKELY they are planning to use it as EVIDENCE AGAINST YOU as my people did in court!
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:17 AM
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I got an email late last night telling me she wanted the health forms plus every parent handbook and update I've had in the last year, every parent communication from the last year and my napping and disipline policies. I giggled a little and told her I have sent the health forms and she will not be getting anything else and to not contact me any more. I have all my ducks in a row in case licensing shows and I have called them to give them a heads up. If she tries to sue me, we will deal with it but I"m not going to help her. Thanks for all your support.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Go play! View Post
I got an email late last night telling me she wanted the health forms plus every parent handbook and update I've had in the last year, every parent communication from the last year and my napping and disipline policies. I giggled a little and told her I have sent the health forms and she will not be getting anything else and to not contact me any more. I have all my ducks in a row in case licensing shows and I have called them to give them a heads up. If she tries to sue me, we will deal with it but I"m not going to help her. Thanks for all your support.
I'm assuming she received copies of these things originally, so if she doesn't have them it's on her
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:10 AM
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I read your post wrong that it said they DID give permission to post, so ignore my comment!

And good luck
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Go play! View Post
I got an email late last night telling me she wanted the health forms plus every parent handbook and update I've had in the last year, every parent communication from the last year and my napping and disipline policies. I giggled a little and told her I have sent the health forms and she will not be getting anything else and to not contact me any more. I have all my ducks in a row in case licensing shows and I have called them to give them a heads up. If she tries to sue me, we will deal with it but I"m not going to help her. Thanks for all your support.
Makes me wonder what she has up her sleeve asking for your napping and discipline policies

Sounds like you are prepared
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:29 PM
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Napping was one of the main concerns I had been expressing because he had been waking up everyone on a regular basis. I don't actually have a written napping policy, but I don't start kids who don't nap and disrupting nap is one of my sticking points.
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:16 AM
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Ant updates?
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:43 AM
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Wow, I didn't read this thread til today... That's crazy. It's obvious she's trying to find something she can use against you. I'm a glad you told her you won't give her anything but the health form. I'm assuming she hasn't contacted you again! Has licensing heard from her?

I have a photo release I found on a daycare site with various forms. I found a really detailed one and everyone has signed and agreed to it. I had one mom who didn't so I just didn't post her DCG's pics and only sent then to mom and deleted them after. We had a nasty term anyway and it was probably for the best. I have lots of great response from my Facebook page though. It's not private, it's a business page and mainly for pics of fun things we do. Walks, outside play, crafts, etc. Granted it would be considered "public", I have been able to find public pics of almost all my daycare kids on Facebook without being their friend. What about websites? I mean that is accessible to anyone on the planet with internet access. How is it any different than Facebook? I see tons of daycares with websites and get lots of ideas from them. I find them on Craigslist and Yelp all the time.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:04 AM
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Wow, I didn't read this thread til today... That's crazy. It's obvious she's trying to find something she can use against you. I'm a glad you told her you won't give her anything but the health form. I'm assuming she hasn't contacted you again! Has licensing heard from her?

I have a photo release I found on a daycare site with various forms. I found a really detailed one and everyone has signed and agreed to it. I had one mom who didn't so I just didn't post her DCG's pics and only sent then to mom and deleted them after. We had a nasty term anyway and it was probably for the best. I have lots of great response from my Facebook page though. It's not private, it's a business page and mainly for pics of fun things we do. Walks, outside play, crafts, etc. Granted it would be considered "public", I have been able to find public pics of almost all my daycare kids on Facebook without being their friend. What about websites? I mean that is accessible to anyone on the planet with internet access. How is it any different than Facebook? I see tons of daycares with websites and get lots of ideas from them. I find them on Craigslist and Yelp all the time.
Craigslist was a huge no-no from my licensor too! Even though I had permission. Pics with kids (specifically their faces) are "highly frowned upon" for websites and facebook.

Facebook is worse because of the liking, tagging, sharing and commenting. These things put the pictures in people's faces who normally wouldn't be looking for them. It just shows up on their newsfeed when the pics are shared, etc. Commenting is a problem because people say negative things that snowball (happened to me) and causes issues.

Websites aren't "as bad" because there is no opportunity to share the pictures or comment freely. People who are viewing your website are specifically looking for your website, as opposed to thousands of people on facebook seeing your pics in their newsfeed, not specifically looking for them.

That is how it was explained to me. My licensor also stressed the "highly frowned upon"part. It is not a regulation. I think her upset was mostly her personal opinion, and varies even from one licensor to the next much like other things.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:11 AM
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This is why I dont have a Facebook page for parents. I will send pictures every now and then of just their child by texted photo. I do not use photos of the children for any advertising.

It is a pain but it seems like anytime you do anything extra, parents come back to bite you. I have had that issue before with daily sheets which is why I no longer provide them. I will fill out a sheet IF the parents provide a copy each day and only for the first while and only for infants because I can see how this would be helpful for parents (only one parent every took me up on that). I had a parent bring up an old daily sheet way back when I used to provide them. Apparently their child received one jar of food at one meal instead of two due to an oversight by my assistant. They never brought up this concern until after they had tried to sneak out with no notice, no payment and all of a sudden they were worried their child wasnt being fed.....then why keep him in my care for another several months past the day this happened and also, never even ask me about this until I demand you pay the two weeks notice? I just dont understand parents that get ugly post daycare termination, especially when they are the ones who left! just pay what you owe, leave and just be done with it, stop trying to take advantage of people. you gotta wonder how they sleep at night.

Anything you share with parents or put in writing/text/email can be used against you. I do not provide additional copies of anything for parents (outside of the original they reviewed to sign, etc) and especially not for parents that are already termed. Why would I help them compile a complaint against me? If they were concerned, they should have kept documentation themselves so your biggest weapon in defending yourself is the fact that they did not remove their child before and did not keep any documentation of concerns.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:12 AM
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Craigslist was a huge no-no from my licensor too! Even though I had permission. Pics with kids (specifically their faces) are "highly frowned upon" for websites and facebook.

Facebook is worse because of the liking, tagging, sharing and commenting. These things put the pictures in people's faces who normally wouldn't be looking for them. It just shows up on their newsfeed when the pics are shared, etc. Commenting is a problem because people say negative things that snowball (happened to me) and causes issues.

Websites aren't "as bad" because there is no opportunity to share the pictures or comment freely. People who are viewing your website are specifically looking for your website, as opposed to thousands of people on facebook seeing your pics in their newsfeed, not specifically looking for them.

That is how it was explained to me. My licensor also stressed the "highly frowned upon"part. It is not a regulation. I think her upset was mostly her personal opinion, and varies even from one licensor to the next much like other things.
My licensor frowns on facebook, craigslist, too.....social media in general!
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:51 AM
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I just dont understand parents that get ugly post daycare termination, especially when they are the ones who left! just pay what you owe, leave and just be done with it, stop trying to take advantage of people. you gotta wonder how they sleep at night. .
Having been through this exact scenario recently (for the first time ever), I have to agree.

A few years ago, we were warned about posting anything about our child cares online. But have never heard a word about it since, and no licensor has ever asked me about it.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:59 AM
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My licensor said she'd like,to be on my Facebook page for my daycare. She wasn't concerned, just likes to see the pictures of what the kids are doing.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:19 PM
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I haven't heard anything else. I sent the health forms certified mail and then emailed her asking her not to contact me again. I did take down my parents facebook page and haven't really decided what I will do about that but I will get releases from everyone before I post anything again. I think the thing that really sucks is it's the first really bad experience I have had and I think it will change the relationships I have with the parents I have now. Lesson learned, I guess. The good news is the spot is already filled and all my kids are napping well again The new kiddo's mom is a referral and I have met them several times through my previous job so I think she is going to fit in well.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Go play! View Post
I haven't heard anything else. I sent the health forms certified mail and then emailed her asking her not to contact me again. I did take down my parents facebook page and haven't really decided what I will do about that but I will get releases from everyone before I post anything again. I think the thing that really sucks is it's the first really bad experience I have had and I think it will change the relationships I have with the parents I have now. Lesson learned, I guess. The good news is the spot is already filled and all my kids are napping well again The new kiddo's mom is a referral and I have met them several times through my previous job so I think she is going to fit in well.
How will this affect your relationships with current families?
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:00 PM
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How will this affect your relationships with current families?
My situation definitely had an impact on the way I view all parents. The set of parents that tried to screw me over in several ways when they left were always great! Until they left on bad terms. Now I trust NO ONE! In my eyes everyone is friendly until things don't go their way, then they use everything they can against you, going back the span of their entire time in your care. I am very cautious of everything I say, thinking, can this be turned around and used against me? Which totally stinks to think that way. But the truth is, everything we say can somehow me managed to be turned around against us or taken out of context.

Don't get me wrong, my current parents are great! But maybe that's because things are going great for them...if we meet a bump in the road, how will they react?
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:06 PM
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I think I will be much less free with what I say to them. I love that the families all get along but I don't think I will be as quick to help them get to know each other. I don't know, I am probably over reacting in the moment. I will likely have much more paperwork for the next round of families and be more careful to document things.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:14 PM
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Don't get me wrong, my current parents are great! But maybe that's because things are going great for them...if we meet a bump in the road, how will they react?
Yep, it's always mentioned on here all the time; parents think of themselves and do for themselves. They (most anyways) really could care less about you, especially when things aren't going their way.

Luckily, I haven't had any bad experiences, but hearing of stories on here really makes one think!
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Go play! View Post
I think I will be much less free with what I say to them. I love that the families all get along but I don't think I will be as quick to help them get to know each other. I don't know, I am probably over reacting in the moment. I will likely have much more paperwork for the next round of families and be more careful to document things.
Oh, I hate to say that I am more careful than I used to be, but I am. It's much more business and much less relationship based than when I started, in the dark ages
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:51 PM
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My licensor said she'd like,to be on my Facebook page for my daycare. She wasn't concerned, just likes to see the pictures of what the kids are doing.
My licensor is on my private facebook page as well. So far no problems but I will be making some adjustments to my permission form after reading this thread! People never cease to amaze me,
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:03 AM
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Oh wow! I will be making changes to my handbook and with forms also. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MissAnn View Post
My licensor said she'd like,to be on my Facebook page for my daycare. She wasn't concerned, just likes to see the pictures of what the kids are doing.
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Originally Posted by Renae82 View Post
My licensor is on my private facebook page as well. So far no problems but I will be making some adjustments to my permission form after reading this thread! People never cease to amaze me,
My licensor is a member of this forum.

I don't do FB.

TOO much drama for me....and I really don't care what someone is eating for dinner or that long lines at Target frustrate them or that they got 500 "likes" for something.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:14 AM
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My licensor is a member of this forum.

I don't do FB.

TOO much drama for me....and I really don't care what someone is eating for dinner or that long lines at Target frustrate them or that they got 500 "likes" for something.
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:24 PM
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the rule I follow as a professional is no photos of kids can be posted on the internet what so ever just used for the classroom or for parents that's it. I know at the head start I worked for we were not allowed to take pictures of the Kids at all. I would not post anymore pictures on social media sites and I would not give the parents copies of everything they signed they had a chance to make their own copies before turning it in!
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