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  #1  
Old 06-03-2013, 04:54 PM
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Angry Illegally Unlicensed Daycares that Advertise

I just recently went through the training, home updating, home inspecting, background checking, etc. to become licensed. The whole shebang. It wasn't cheap. And it was a lot of work.

Now I'm realizing just how many illegally unlicensed home daycares there are in my area. All of them are advertising they offer full time care (I'm in Kansas and you cannot watch children more than 20 hours total per week without being licensed). They ADVERTISE! Most included IN their advertisement that they are unlicensed.


I just don't get it. Is there no one doing anything about these people? I worked damn hard to get where I am... just to turn around and find out that not only am I competing against established home daycares but unlicensed SAHM's who charge the same as licensed care.


Sorry to vent... it's just SO. FRUSTRATING.

/end of rant
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2013, 04:57 PM
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I up against the same thing except around here the SAHMs tend to charge way less than the home daycares.
It is very frustrating and drives me crazy
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  #3  
Old 06-03-2013, 05:01 PM
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I take that back, there were two on craigslist that charge more than most of the licensed home daycares and then the rest were ridiculously cheaper. Ugh, so frustrating!
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:08 PM
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I'm in Kansas too- my licensor told me last time she was by for an inspection that they are now going through the craigslist ads and paying visits to the unlicensed daycares

There are still a lot of them advertising, but I don't normally see the same ones for too long. Within the last month or so there have been ads on craigslist in the childcare section explaining the law and why it is important to choose a licensed daycare. Eventually maybe it will weed them out!
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JoseyJo View Post
I'm in Kansas too- my licensor told me last time she was by for an inspection that they are now going through the craigslist ads and paying visits to the unlicensed daycares

There are still a lot of them advertising, but I don't normally see the same ones for too long. Within the last month or so there have been ads on craigslist in the childcare section explaining the law and why it is important to choose a licensed daycare. Eventually maybe it will weed them out!
Oh thank goodness! I'm going to talk to my licensor about it too the next time I see her (which *knock on wood* won't be until March of next year). I hope they really are visiting these people... not that there's anything wrong with unlicensed daycares... it's just the fact that it's illegal, maybe, that bothers me. And that they advertise! Just openly advertising

I worked very, very hard for this and I know that this is my career and not just some random way to make a quick buck.
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  #6  
Old 06-03-2013, 09:07 PM
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I know how you feel! I worked my butt off and spent a lot of time and money to get licensed and get my home childcare open. There are tons of unlicensed home day cares in my area and here, it's illegal to care for any unrelated children in your home for more than 4 weeks a year without being licensed. I don't think that there are enough resources for these people to be investigated and shut down.
On another note, I also think that some people honestly don't know that is illegal to care for children without a license. I wish there were some system or way to educate people on what is needed to legally care for children. One provider in my area actually put something on CL telling parents that in our state that a license in needed for providers to care for children in their homes and to make sure that the people they find for childcare are licensed and also told providers to make sure they put Licensed in their title. I don't think it worked though, there are still a ton of unlicensed providers advertising.
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  #7  
Old 06-03-2013, 09:15 PM
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Licensing isn't required here but what bothers me is that I see all the time in CL people here advertising FULL TIME Childcare for $45 a week.

The problem with that is that the rate above is WELL below state reimbursement.

Actually, MS only reimburses anywhere max of $59 a week and that's for an infant on tier one. It takes more than that to feed, provide ac and everything else for a child in a week. That's insane.

I charge more than state pays, I think that's what most do. I can't imagine LOSING money every week I cared for a child.

So, its not licensing at bothers me here since its not required. It's those fly by night babysitters charging $40 or $45 a week for full time care. That's less than a dollar an hour.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
Licensing isn't required here but what bothers me is that I see all the time in CL people here advertising FULL TIME Childcare for $45 a week.

The problem with that is that the rate above is WELL below state reimbursement.

Actually, MS only reimburses anywhere max of $59 a week and that's for an infant on tier one. It takes more than that to feed, provide ac and everything else for a child in a week. That's insane.

I charge more than state pays, I think that's what most do. I can't imagine LOSING money every week I cared for a child.

So, its not licensing at bothers me here since its not required. It's those fly by night babysitters charging $40 or $45 a week for full time care. That's less than a dollar an hour.
Wow, I don't get how anyone can charge $45 a week for full time care, that is insane! I wonder how they survive off of that?!
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2013, 09:28 PM
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I am still awaiting my licence in NY, and my thought on this is that I'm planning on advertising that I am in fact licensed.. trained in CPR, have taken health/safety & first aid classes and am participating in the food program, etc. Is my thinking that my ad next one from someone who isn't licenced will look more appealing as a parent in my opinion would be looking for the best possible care for their children
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  #10  
Old 06-03-2013, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by melilley View Post
Wow, I don't get how anyone can charge $45 a week for full time care, that is insane! I wonder how they survive off of that?!
I have NO IDEA either. I added everything up related to the cost one one daycare child... I added up meals, supplies, a percentage of electricity etc. I came up with well more than that. I have no idea. Is crazy!!
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  #11  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:13 AM
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Wow, I don't get how anyone can charge $45 a week for full time care, that is insane! I wonder how they survive off of that?!
I don't get that either. And the crazy thing is that I've seen ads on CL from parents seeking care and they say "are not rich, and are only willing to pay $50/ week" for one or 2 kids. You know that they just don't break it down and think about how much that actually is per hour.
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:23 AM
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Just saw this one today on my craigslist:

Need childcare asap for my 18 month old son. shift from 4pm-1am. My income is low so i'm only looking to pay $10 a day. some days I would need from 4pm-9pm. email call or text XXX
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  #13  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:43 AM
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I saw one today wanting a nanny for an infant... And wanted to pay $20 a day max... For someone to DRIVE to her house... And is willing to lay a little extra for them to pick up their 2 year old from "school". And maybe the occasional weekend.

What?? That won't even pay for GAS
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  #14  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:50 AM
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Because your state, my state, ALL states, are not funding their licensing.agencies. Its pretty simple. State budgets dictate that the offices are understaffed, overloaded, and simply can't do their jobs. They can't keep up with inspecting licenced people, no time, staff or $$ to investigate illegal ones.
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by melilley View Post
Wow, I don't get how anyone can charge $45 a week for full time care, that is insane! I wonder how they survive off of that?!
Not everyone does child care to survive. Many providers do it to pass the time or to simply care for a child because it is something they love to do.

I have a neighbor near me who provides full time infant/toddler care for $75 per week. (The going rate for infants/toddlers here is anywhere from $150-175 per week).

This provider does this because she wants to. She LOVES babies. She also has a husband who has a fantastic job. They definitely do not "need" the money.

I think that unless you are providing care illegally, you should be able to do what you love....even if you did it for free.

I know this is a sore spot for some providers but really there are hundreds of scenarios that aren't our own so I can see how a lot of the different ones can upset others... for example, I am in this for the long haul. I am a lifer in this profession and still provide child care despite not having any of my own children at home with me.

I am sometimes offended by providers who choose to do this job simply because they have young kids of their own and when those kids go off to school, those providers plan on going back to their medical or financial or whatever other careers.... so in my eyes I could complain about those providers as they are taking kids that I could enroll.....

See what I mean? I don't really feel that way about other providers...I was just using that as an example of how many different scenarios and situations there are out there and somehow no matter what, someone is not going to be happy with all of them....kwim?

The only REAL complaint I have are providers who provide care illegally. Other than that, to each his/her own.
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  #16  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:56 AM
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I provide Childcare because I love kids and I don't use it as a source of income, but on the other hand, I can't pay someone so I can watch THEIR kids. KWIM??

If I charged too much less than what I already do, literally I'd be paying the parents for dropping their kids off here.

I started my daycare really because I was bored and my kids wanted some other kids to play with. We live far removed and socializing is difficult if they aren't in school.

Also, I love to teach kids. I never would choose it as a career in a school setting, but I'm a homeschooling mom to the bone... Lol

But just because I love doing it, and it is rewarding, and my kids have play mates, doesn't mean I should go into the negative every week either lol.
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2013, 08:10 AM
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I had a call from someone looking for a nanny (I'm on the board of our local child care association and we do referrals for families). She was having triplets and was looking for someone to come to her house to help out 3-4 days a week. She said she was looking for someone that was inexpensive. I didn't wait to hear what "inexpensive" meant to her and I just informed her that what she was looking for wad called a "nanny" and that unless she found a SAHM that was willing to help her out and willing to charge less she was looking at $120-$160 for 3-4 days and that was on the lower side. She was not happy. She wanted someone with credentials, background checked, CPR and safety training, education and experience. I suggested that she place an add for that on CL or Care.com because I would not be able to help her find what she was looking for not for less than what I quoted her for.

I did however tell her that I personally knew someone that had been a teacher but decided to stay home with her children once she had her first one (she now has 2 children) and that she is known to take on nanny type work from time to time at a discounted rate as long as she was able to take her 2 girls along. The woman was adamant that other children would not be welcomed and that "she would need to leave her own kids with someone else". At that point I told her that it would not work because the while point of her not working was to be a SAHM and not leave her kids with a sitter. Her response was "she doesn't have someone she can leave them with?" And what I wanted to say was "don't you?" But instead I said "She chose to leave a FT teaching position to be a SAHM to be with her children which is why she only accepts jobs which allow her girls. Do you see how accepting a nanny job which didn't allow that just wouldn't appeal to her? Especially for a low amount of pay". Man, the woman sounded really frustrated but I just really think that she had no clue about child care. I must have spent 25 minutes with her on the phone explaining her options and I don't think I was any closer to having her understand, maybe because nothing I said was what she wanted to hear lol.
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2013, 09:46 AM
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I hear you all, but being a licensed provider does not mean that the care is any better than a unlicensed one. It just means your home,yard and equipment has all been checked out to make sure it is safe. The person who is licensed might not be a good care giver themselves, but their home has been checked and gotten a background check.

I am one that is unlicensed and have done daycare for over 30 years.
in my state,Mn, if you are unlicensed you can have only 2 children,if they are from the same family or just one child. that is all I take, 2 children from one family.

I do daycare because I do love the kids,love to teach them and money is not a issue as to why I do daycare. I just really love the children and want to make a difference in their little lives. This is just what I have been hearing in the news the last few years, but more children get hurt while in the care of licensed daycare's then in unlicensed home daycare's,now that being said that is not the case all the time, but just seems to be more prevalent. You can have more children in your care if your licensed and I think that makes a big difference in being able to watch every child every minute, Also I do not under or over charge,I find out what the going rate is and then I charge accordingly to what is being charged in my area for both un and licensed.

We are not trying to take your business away from you either as not being licensed, but I guess it is really up to parents as to if they want unlicensed or licensed care and what they are willing to pay for care for their child. I guess what I am trying to say here is that whether your licensed or not, it is actually the person giving the care that is most important,if they don't give good care and are licensed,why would a parent choose them just for being licensed,if you now what I mean.
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2013, 09:55 AM
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I'm the ONLY unlicensed state approved provider within 100 miles.

I'm also the ONLY home provider that's state approved in my county.

Licensing offers ME nothing, other than a few extra bucks from state pay reimbursement, but that few bucks is paid for anyway by the parent.

I've never had a parent even ASK me if I'm licensed.

My current state pay family went to several other people on the list of state approved and said she wouldn't leave her dog there, much less her three kids.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:08 AM
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I hear you all, but being a licensed provider does not mean that the care is any better than a unlicensed one. It just means your home,yard and equipment has all been checked out to make sure it is safe. The person who is licensed might not be a good care giver themselves, but their home has been checked and gotten a background check.

I am one that is unlicensed and have done daycare for over 30 years.
in my state,Mn, if you are unlicensed you can have only 2 children,if they are from the same family or just one child. that is all I take, 2 children from one family.

I do daycare because I do love the kids,love to teach them and money is not a issue as to why I do daycare. I just really love the children and want to make a difference in their little lives. This is just what I have been hearing in the news the last few years, but more children get hurt while in the care of licensed daycare's then in unlicensed home daycare's,now that being said that is not the case all the time, but just seems to be more prevalent. You can have more children in your care if your licensed and I think that makes a big difference in being able to watch every child every minute, Also I do not under or over charge,I find out what the going rate is and then I charge accordingly to what is being charged in my area for both un and licensed.

We are not trying to take your business away from you either as not being licensed, but I guess it is really up to parents as to if they want unlicensed or licensed care and what they are willing to pay for care for their child. I guess what I am trying to say here is that whether your licensed or not, it is actually the person giving the care that is most important,if they don't give good care and are licensed,why would a parent choose them just for being licensed,if you now what I mean.
The vent/ thread isn't about LEGALLY unlicensed child care providers. It is about those who do things ILLEGALLY.

No matter if the care is superior or not is irrelevant. If the provider is breaking the law then she should be turned in and/or reported.

I have ZERO issues with providers like you who follow the state licensing laws. You yourself said you do so you are definitely NOT stealing anyone's business.

I'm in MN too and personally I think the ratios for licensed providers should be lowered and the ratios for legally unlicensed should be raised. The gap is HUGE. (but I guess that is a whole other topic. )
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
I'm the ONLY unlicensed state approved provider within 100 miles.

I'm also the ONLY home provider that's state approved in my county.

Licensing offers ME nothing, other than a few extra bucks from state pay reimbursement, but that few bucks is paid for anyway by the parent.

I've never had a parent even ASK me if I'm licensed.

My current state pay family went to several other people on the list of state approved and said she wouldn't leave her dog there, much less her three kids.

I am the unregistered one above you, cradle 2 crayons
I actually have never been asked from a parent if I am licensed or not either. I guess when they come for the interview they feel comfortable enough to consider me.they maybe will tell me that they have a few other interviews to go to, but then they do call me back and tell me they want me to take their child,whether they have gone to licensed ones to check out or not. I did have a parent tell me that they had checked out a licensed daycare and would not even consider putting their child in that daycare home as it was very dirty, had too many kids and the house smelled.

Being licensed really does not offer me anything also. I do not like the food program they have, I think that it is not that nutritious and I like to fix many different things for the kids to eat.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Not everyone does child care to survive. Many providers do it to pass the time or to simply care for a child because it is something they love to do.

I have a neighbor near me who provides full time infant/toddler care for $75 per week. (The going rate for infants/toddlers here is anywhere from $150-175 per week).

This provider does this because she wants to. She LOVES babies. She also has a husband who has a fantastic job. They definitely do not "need" the money.

I think that unless you are providing care illegally, you should be able to do what you love....even if you did it for free.

I know this is a sore spot for some providers but really there are hundreds of scenarios that aren't our own so I can see how a lot of the different ones can upset others... for example, I am in this for the long haul. I am a lifer in this profession and still provide child care despite not having any of my own children at home with me.

I am sometimes offended by providers who choose to do this job simply because they have young kids of their own and when those kids go off to school, those providers plan on going back to their medical or financial or whatever other careers.... so in my eyes I could complain about those providers as they are taking kids that I could enroll.....

See what I mean? I don't really feel that way about other providers...I was just using that as an example of how many different scenarios and situations there are out there and somehow no matter what, someone is not going to be happy with all of them....kwim?

The only REAL complaint I have are providers who provide care illegally. Other than that, to each his/her own.
So true, I didn't really think of it that way. I too don't have a problem with unlicensed providers if it is legal!
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  #23  
Old 06-04-2013, 12:54 PM
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So true, I didn't really think of it that way. I too don't have a problem with unlicensed providers if it is legal!
I do, for two main reasons. The first is that Jane Doe up the street doing unregulated care only takes cash payment so she doesn't have to pay taxes on it. Sure the parents can't claim it on their taxes, but she's charging so much less than average that they don't mind. Meanwhile I'm paying taxes at a rate that would probably be lower if all the Jane Does were paying their fair share.

The other reason is that around here there's no distinction made between regulated family child care and unregulated child care. So when Jane Doe puts an infant sleep to sleep on her stomach on the couch and the infant dies of SIDS the media just reports that she was a "family child care provider" which instantly makes parents question the quality of care I provide.

IMO the best way to raise the overall quality of child care and provide a minimal level of safety is to require regulation for everyone. I'm not saying that all unregulated providers are bad - I know many people here are unregulated and do a great job - but with regulation it would be easier to weed out the bad ones.

Just my 2c.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:00 PM
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I hear you all, but being a licensed provider does not mean that the care is any better than a unlicensed one. It just means your home,yard and equipment has all been checked out to make sure it is safe. The person who is licensed might not be a good care giver themselves, but their home has been checked and gotten a background check.

I am one that is unlicensed and have done daycare for over 30 years.
in my state,Mn, if you are unlicensed you can have only 2 children,if they are from the same family or just one child. that is all I take, 2 children from one family.

I do daycare because I do love the kids,love to teach them and money is not a issue as to why I do daycare. I just really love the children and want to make a difference in their little lives. This is just what I have been hearing in the news the last few years, but more children get hurt while in the care of licensed daycare's then in unlicensed home daycare's,now that being said that is not the case all the time, but just seems to be more prevalent. You can have more children in your care if your licensed and I think that makes a big difference in being able to watch every child every minute, Also I do not under or over charge,I find out what the going rate is and then I charge accordingly to what is being charged in my area for both un and licensed.

We are not trying to take your business away from you either as not being licensed, but I guess it is really up to parents as to if they want unlicensed or licensed care and what they are willing to pay for care for their child. I guess what I am trying to say here is that whether your licensed or not, it is actually the person giving the care that is most important,if they don't give good care and are licensed,why would a parent choose them just for being licensed,if you now what I mean.
My issue is not that they are unlicensed... the issue is that they are ILLEGALLY unlicensed.

ETA: Although, I do have to say that it bothers me that these people more than likely don't have much training as far as childcare goes and quite possibly don't even have CPR/First Aid certificates. In Kansas, it is a requirement of licensed providers to take a safe sleep class if you provide care for children 12 months or younger. Are these unlicensed providers here educated as far as SIDS go? My nephew died of SIDS almost 5 years ago... so the fact that they likely are untrained even in this one aspect truly hits home for me.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:02 PM
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I do, for two main reasons. The first is that Jane Doe up the street doing unregulated care only takes cash payment so she doesn't have to pay taxes on it. Sure the parents can't claim it on their taxes, but she's charging so much less than average that they don't mind. Meanwhile I'm paying taxes at a rate that would probably be lower if all the Jane Does were paying their fair share.

The other reason is that around here there's no distinction made between regulated family child care and unregulated child care. So when Jane Doe puts an infant sleep to sleep on her stomach on the couch and the infant dies of SIDS the media just reports that she was a "family child care provider" which instantly makes parents question the quality of care I provide.

IMO the best way to raise the overall quality of child care and provide a minimal level of safety is to require regulation for everyone. I'm not saying that all unregulated providers are bad - I know many people here are unregulated and do a great job - but with regulation it would be easier to weed out the bad ones.

Just my 2c.
I am licensed.

How do you know I am actually claiming all my income?

How do you know I am not placing the infant I have in care to sleep on her tummy?

You don't know. People just assume I am doing the right thing because I am licensed but that license in not a guarantee.

I would never begrudge someone for providing LEGAL unlicensed child care. You do what you have to do in this economy to survive and feed your family.

I DO agree though that there should be minimum standards across the country that are the same for everyone but still for a parent to simply trust those standards is a scary risk to take.

Parents are the ones who should be doing their research into the quality of care they are receiving whether their provider is licensed, regulated, unlicensed or unregulated.

Parents should NEVER automatically assume that just because a provider is licensed that the provider is doing things correctly.

That's like assuming everyone with a driver's license is a good driver.
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  #26  
Old 06-04-2013, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am the unregistered one above you, cradle 2 crayons
I actually have never been asked from a parent if I am licensed or not either. I guess when they come for the interview they feel comfortable enough to consider me.they maybe will tell me that they have a few other interviews to go to, but then they do call me back and tell me they want me to take their child,whether they have gone to licensed ones to check out or not. I did have a parent tell me that they had checked out a licensed daycare and would not even consider putting their child in that daycare home as it was very dirty, had too many kids and the house smelled.

Being licensed really does not offer me anything also. I do not like the food program they have, I think that it is not that nutritious and I like to fix many different things for the kids to eat.
I think you have a lot of misconceptions about licensed childcare in the state of MN and that's really too bad.

One licensed home that was "very dirty, had too many kids and the house smelled" doesn't mean by a long shot that's how they all are.

Furthermore, being licensed has nothing to do with offering YOU anything. It's about what it may be able to offer families looking for care in regards to some additional safeguards. Bottom line is, every single provider licensed in the state of MN has to have taken SIDS trainings, CPR and first aid courses, passed background checks (along with anyone else living in the home or even those who may just swing in for a visit now and again) and their homes inspected to make sure there aren't any structural issues that could make caring for children in the space dangerous.

Does that protect against everything that could go wrong when you leave your child in the care of a stranger? No. But it does mean the provider cared enough to jump through the hoops and there is a higher likelihood they have good intentions. It increases the odds that the person your child will be cared by will not hurt them or put them in a position to be hurt by someone or something else.

Nothing is 100% but it does reassure (at least on some level) every parent I've ever interviewed who all say they'd never leave their child with someone who hasn't found it worth it to offer them those additional securities.


As far as the food program goes I'm not sure what you're referring to? There is a multitude of food programs (plural) available and each licensed provider has the right to choose which ever one they want. There is nothing that says you have to feed the same foods over and over again, just nutritional guidelines to make sure children are being fed a balanced diet.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by craftymissbeth View Post
My issue is not that they are unlicensed... the issue is that they are ILLEGALLY unlicensed.

ETA: Although, I do have to say that it bothers me that these people more than likely don't have much training as far as childcare goes and quite possibly don't even have CPR/First Aid certificates. In Kansas, it is a requirement of licensed providers to take a safe sleep class if you provide care for children 12 months or younger. Are these unlicensed providers here educated as far as SIDS go? My nephew died of SIDS almost 5 years ago... so the fact that they likely are untrained even in this one aspect truly hits home for me.
Only if they want to.

I'd venture to guess most don't.


I had never heard of such a thing until I started the foster care licensing process. I can't imagine many unlicensed providers would be aware such thing existed or how truly important it is (legally unlicensed providers here aside.....most here are a different crew entirely)
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Only if they want to.

I'd venture to guess most don't.


I had never heard of such a thing until I started the foster care licensing process. I can't imagine many unlicensed providers would be aware such thing existed or how truly important it is (legally unlicensed providers here aside.....most here are a different crew entirely)
Heck the licensed providers here don't have much in the way of sleep safe or SIDS training either. While I don't agree I should be forced to license, I would like to see the states that do require licensing to adapt the EXACT SAME guidelines so at least they aren't confusing
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:56 PM
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Ok.....Crafty (OP). I totally get what you were trying to say waaaaay back in your original post. You are dismayed that people are openly advertising for an ILLEGAL operation, am I right? If I read it right, in your state it is illegal to watch children more than 20 hours without a license, and by advertising full time they are clearly breaking the law? So full time providers must be licensed? And their ads say both full time and unlicensed? And you're frustrated that your Kansas licensing authority isn't doing anything about it.

Somewhere above, I gave my best insight......about state budgets, lack of funds and staff. Being legally unlicensed is totally Totally TOTALLY fine.No one here will.disagree I hope. Being ILLEGALLY UNLICENSED IS NEVER OK. At least not in my book.

You know, we should all be outraged. Police monitor craigslist for prostitution right? Illegally caring for children should be taken more seriously. Its NOT ABOUT what type of license you have, its about if you.are breaking the law.

So what can we do? I mean, actually do, not just vent about? Licensing is over worked. Every county needs a watchdog? Someone to patrol craigslist? As a licensed facility/center, I am legally required to list my license # on ANY and.ALL advertising. If folks. are legally unlicensed, their ad should be required to say that as well. If people are operating illegally, they should be busted. By licensing. Your vent, my vent, anyone upset by blatant and obvious illegal care, would best be directed at the elected officials who fund your licensing oversight departments.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
Heck the licensed providers here don't have much in the way of sleep safe or SIDS training either. While I don't agree I should be forced to license, I would like to see the states that do require licensing to adapt the EXACT SAME guidelines so at least they aren't confusing
I agree it's not much, and I wish there was far more training required across the board. My point was at least it's something.

As a parent, at least to me, knowing to be licensed my child's provider had to have at least some important (and imho essential) life saving trainings would be better than an unlicensed provider where there is no guarantee they've had any.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Ok.....Crafty (OP). I totally get what you were trying to say waaaaay back in your original post. You are dismayed that people are openly advertising for an ILLEGAL operation, am I right? If I read it right, in your state it is illegal to watch children more than 20 hours without a license, and by advertising full time they are clearly breaking the law? So full time providers must be licensed? And their ads say both full time and unlicensed? And you're frustrated that your Kansas licensing authority isn't doing anything about it.

Somewhere above, I gave my best insight......about state budgets, lack of funds and staff. Being legally unlicensed is totally Totally TOTALLY fine.No one here will.disagree I hope. Being ILLEGALLY UNLICENSED IS NEVER OK. At least not in my book.

You know, we should all be outraged. Police monitor craigslist for prostitution right? Illegally caring for children should be taken more seriously. Its NOT ABOUT what type of license you have, its about if you.are breaking the law.

So what can we do? I mean, actually do, not just vent about? Licensing is over worked. Every county needs a watchdog? Someone to patrol craigslist? As a licensed facility/center, I am legally required to list my license # on ANY and.ALL advertising. If folks. are legally unlicensed, their ad should be required to say that as well. If people are operating illegally, they should be busted. By licensing. Your vent, my vent, anyone upset by blatant and obvious illegal care, would best be directed at the elected officials who fund your licensing oversight departments.
Yes... you understood what I was trying to say 100%. And that's fantastic advice... I think I will direct my concerns to our elected officials. If they are going to require us to be licensed (licensed vs unlicensed is not my concern here) yet are incapable of enforcing that requirement... then I'm at a loss. And actually, it has only been a few years (not sure of the exact year) since they removed our ability to be simply registered providers rather than fully licensed

ETA: in Kansas you must be licensed if you watch children other than family in your own home more than 20 hours per week

Last edited by craftymissbeth; 06-04-2013 at 03:16 PM. Reason: explain licensing requirements
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by craftymissbeth View Post
Yes... you understood what I was trying to say 100%. And that's fantastic advice... I think I will direct my concerns to our elected officials. If they are going to require us to be licensed (licensed vs unlicensed is not my concern here) yet are incapable of enforcing that requirement... then I'm at a loss. And actually, it has only been a few years (not sure of the exact year) since they removed our ability to be simply registered providers rather than fully licensed
Advertise
ETA: in Kansas you must be licensed if you watch children other than family in your own home more than 20 hours per week
Ok! Now we are getting somewhere! I think this is a crisis. I think craigslist makes it too easy to provide ILLEGAL care. I also think it is a way to prey on young, poor and the working single moms. It.drives me insane to see ads for these "anything goes" care providers on craigslist. At least once a week I see a vent about ridiculously cheap, unqualified, and likely illegal providers.

Who here thinks some sort of crack down on illegal care needs to happen? Licensing needs HELP. They need to hire just ONE PERSON to investigate, inspect and monitor suspected illegal providers. Budgets need to reflect the stated goals of state family and child services. In other words, put their money where their mouths are.

I world love to scan the ads and send a list.to my licensor, but I already know she.doesn't have enough hours in the work day just to patrol the licensed and legally unlicensed providers she already has. There used to be 4 inspectors in my county. Now there are 2. Do the math. Thanks,.Rick Scott, Governor.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:45 PM
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So true, I didn't really think of it that way. I too don't have a problem with unlicensed providers if it is legal!
Same here, but it my state it is almost never legal. I know that most of them probably don't know it's illegal, but it still bothers me.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by craftymissbeth View Post
I just recently went through the training, home updating, home inspecting, background checking, etc. to become licensed. The whole shebang. It wasn't cheap. And it was a lot of work.

Now I'm realizing just how many illegally unlicensed home daycares there are in my area. All of them are advertising they offer full time care (I'm in Kansas and you cannot watch children more than 20 hours total per week without being licensed). They ADVERTISE! Most included IN their advertisement that they are unlicensed.


I just don't get it. Is there no one doing anything about these people? I worked damn hard to get where I am... just to turn around and find out that not only am I competing against established home daycares but unlicensed SAHM's who charge the same as licensed care.


Sorry to vent... it's just SO. FRUSTRATING.

/end of rant
I completely agree with your concern. In our area, our local family child care association and CCR&R agency approached the newspapers that were running ads from illegal providers and told them to stop accepting those ads. We successfully argued that they might be held liable if a child was injured in one of these homes. The newspaper then required providers to list their license # in their ads. I'd ask Craigslist to do the same.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Ok! Now we are getting somewhere! I think this is a crisis. I think craigslist makes it too easy to provide ILLEGAL care. I also think it is a way to prey on young, poor and the working single moms. It.drives me insane to see ads for these "anything goes" care providers on craigslist. At least once a week I see a vent about ridiculously cheap, unqualified, and likely illegal providers.

Who here thinks some sort of crack down on illegal care needs to happen? Licensing needs HELP. They need to hire just ONE PERSON to investigate, inspect and monitor suspected illegal providers. Budgets need to reflect the stated goals of state family and child services. In other words, put their money where their mouths are.

I world love to scan the ads and send a list.to my licensor, but I already know she.doesn't have enough hours in the work day just to patrol the licensed and legally unlicensed providers she already has. There used to be 4 inspectors in my county. Now there are 2. Do the math. Thanks,.Rick Scott, Governor.
I think it would be cheaper and far more effective to educate parents.

For every ad you see on CL or elsewhere advertising cheap ILLEGAL child care, post the regulations or rules for your area.

Repeat that process so that on EVERY page of Craig's list there are links to where parents can find out the rules/regs for their areas.

We, as providers DO have a voice! You just have to be creative, persistent and diligent in using it. If we waited for licensing to hire someone or to be able to even make a dent in stopping illegal child care, we'd all be dead and gone.
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:08 PM
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I think it would be cheaper and far more effective to educate parents.

For every ad you see on CL or elsewhere advertising cheap ILLEGAL child care, post the regulations or rules for your area.

Repeat that process so that on EVERY page of Craig's list there are links to where parents can find out the rules/regs for their areas.

We, as providers DO have a voice! You just have to be creative, persistent and diligent in using it. If we waited for licensing to hire someone or to be able to even make a dent in stopping illegal child care, we'd all be dead and gone.
Excellent, excellent point! Absolutely agree. We should all do as you suggested and try to.educate parents. It IS tough to get people hired, many obstacles. Ultimately, the licensing authority is the agency that is charged with enforcement,.and unfortunately,.real action has to come from them.

I think what Tom said above about enforcing advertising rules, or.even making those rules really needs to happen.
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  #37  
Old 06-04-2013, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I think it would be cheaper and far more effective to educate parents.

For every ad you see on CL or elsewhere advertising cheap ILLEGAL child care, post the regulations or rules for your area.

Repeat that process so that on EVERY page of Craig's list there are links to where parents can find out the rules/regs for their areas.

We, as providers DO have a voice! You just have to be creative, persistent and diligent in using it. If we waited for licensing to hire someone or to be able to even make a dent in stopping illegal child care, we'd all be dead and gone.
Exactly what I am going to do!
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons View Post
Licensing isn't required here but what bothers me is that I see all the time in CL people here advertising FULL TIME Childcare for $45 a week.

The problem with that is that the rate above is WELL below state reimbursement.

Actually, MS only reimburses anywhere max of $59 a week and that's for an infant on tier one. It takes more than that to feed, provide ac and everything else for a child in a week. That's insane.

I charge more than state pays, I think that's what most do. I can't imagine LOSING money every week I cared for a child.

So, its not licensing at bothers me here since its not required. It's those fly by night babysitters charging $40 or $45 a week for full time care. That's less than a dollar an hour.
Oh my gosh! I charged that like 25 years ago!
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Ok.....Crafty (OP). I totally get what you were trying to say waaaaay back in your original post. You are dismayed that people are openly advertising for an ILLEGAL operation, am I right? If I read it right, in your state it is illegal to watch children more than 20 hours without a license, and by advertising full time they are clearly breaking the law? So full time providers must be licensed? And their ads say both full time and unlicensed? And you're frustrated that your Kansas licensing authority isn't doing anything about it.

Somewhere above, I gave my best insight......about state budgets, lack of funds and staff. Being legally unlicensed is totally Totally TOTALLY fine.No one here will.disagree I hope. Being ILLEGALLY UNLICENSED IS NEVER OK. At least not in my book.

You know, we should all be outraged. Police monitor craigslist for prostitution right? Illegally caring for children should be taken more seriously. Its NOT ABOUT what type of license you have, its about if you.are breaking the law.

So what can we do? I mean, actually do, not just vent about? Licensing is over worked. Every county needs a watchdog? Someone to patrol craigslist? As a licensed facility/center, I am legally required to list my license # on ANY and.ALL advertising. If folks. are legally unlicensed, their ad should be required to say that as well. If people are operating illegally, they should be busted. By licensing. Your vent, my vent, anyone upset by blatant and obvious illegal care, would best be directed at the elected officials who fund your licensing oversight departments.
100% Agree.

I am licensed, early childhood educated, career home daycare.

In NY, they are cracking down BIG TIME. Fake inquiries into CL ads, stakeouts, police escorts with cease & desist orders, big fines, that sort of thing. Why? They have money allocated for labor.

Licensed home providers are closing because they can't fill infant spaces for $150, centers are going sliding fee scale & ILLEGAL sahms are babysitting for $15/day & over ratio.

Even if they are operating legally unlicensed yet not claiming all of the income, they are STILL doing something illegal.
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Parents are the ones who should be doing their research into the quality of care they are receiving whether their provider is licensed, regulated, unlicensed or unregulated.

Parents should NEVER automatically assume that just because a provider is licensed that the provider is doing things correctly.

That's like assuming everyone with a driver's license is a good driver.
I totally agree - I don't assume that all licensed people do the right thing, and I don't assume that all unlicensed people don't.

At the very least however, licensed providers have a minimum standard they have to meet before being licensed, and someone is checking up on them somewhat regularly. (At least in theory.)

Everyone with a driver's license may not be a good driver, but they at least had to pass the test to get the license. (Again, in theory...)
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:45 PM
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100% Agree.

I am licensed, early childhood educated, career home daycare.

In NY, they are cracking down BIG TIME. Fake inquiries into CL ads, stakeouts, police escorts with cease & desist orders, big fines, that sort of thing. Why? They have money allocated for labor.

Licensed home providers are closing because they can't fill infant spaces for $150, centers are going sliding fee scale & ILLEGAL sahms are babysitting for $15/day & over ratio.

Even if they are operating legally unlicensed yet not claiming all of the income, they are STILL doing something illegal.
Awesome! Way to go NY!
That is EXACTLY what needs to happen in all 50 states.
Think of the resources dedicated to fighting the so-called War on Drugs and busting prostitutes and incarcerating non violent drug offenses. Divert.a fraction of that $$ to protecting children AND improving and expanding subsidized child.care for thepoor. Yes, I said it, more government. But I digress. Sorry.

Last edited by Sugar Magnolia; 06-04-2013 at 06:48 PM. Reason: stupid autocorrect
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:54 PM
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I just posted this on the town's babysitting facebook site. I'm so frustrated with these people too. I hestitated pressing the "enter" key as this is a small town and alot of people know me. But, enough is enough already. Welcome to my backbone and I may soon claim a "sh*t disturbing" stick too! I also wanted to add that I would report them myself if I know they are doing this (I have already reported 2 of them) but thought that would be a bit much.

To all of the daycare providers who are unlicensed and caring for more than two children who are not related to you:

If you are not aware, you are only legally allowed to care for only two children who are not related. If you care for more than that, then you are running an illegal daycare and you may be fined. The fine is very steep, $10,000 PER DAY that you are out of quota.

I have recently become licensed and have just become aware of this law myself. I just want to give you a heads up so you don't run into trouble with this. See page 57 for more information:
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/ccf/publ...-licensing.pdf
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:59 PM
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When I post on Craigs list and I see a ton of illegal ads up I will put something like

Legal State Licensed Childcare or something like that!!!
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:05 PM
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I just posted this on the town's babysitting facebook site. I'm so frustrated with these people too. I hestitated pressing the "enter" key as this is a small town and alot of people know me. But, enough is enough already. Welcome to my backbone and I may soon claim a "sh*t disturbing" stick too! I also wanted to add that I would report them myself if I know they are doing this (I have already reported 2 of them) but thought that would be a bit much.

To all of the daycare providers who are unlicensed and caring for more than two children who are not related to you:

If you are not aware, you are only legally allowed to care for only two children who are not related. If you care for more than that, then you are running an illegal daycare and you may be fined. The fine is very steep, $10,000 PER DAY that you are out of quota.

I have recently become licensed and have just become aware of this law myself. I just want to give you a heads up so you don't run into trouble with this. See page 57 for more information:
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/ccf/publ...-licensing.pdf

Exactly this, yes yes ahhhhh you go girl!
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:28 PM
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I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:49 PM
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I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.

You should consider rereading this entire thread. Not a single person here has said that unlicensed daycares should be shut down. sheesh!

The issue is that in some states, it is illegal to operate an unlicensed daycare and THAT is what I am upset about.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.

Is your child care ILLEGAL???
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.
If you are unlicensed and legal then I have no problem with you having your daycare.... fly at her. BUT, if you are illegal, then I don't care how many credentials you have, how much education you have, how beautiful your home is, or how much you love children: You are breaking the law!!! What does that say about you? What makes you so special that you can disregard what your state/province deems lawful for daycares?

And, what does that say about your morals?!?!? I know there are so many reasons why some don't become licensed and they are just ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you don't agree, compliance is the law.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:05 PM
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This reminds me about what someone posted on our county's Facebook swap page... someone advertised that they are a SAHM and wanting to watch kids in her home full time. A discussion began (I wasn't involved, but read through it before it was deleted) and basically everyone was saying that if she wanted to operate illegally she can choose to do so but not to openly advertise. Someone mentioned that there are "far more illegal things than this".


I thought illegal was illegal was illegal. Guess I was wrong
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I am an unlicensed provider and I have completed CPR, first aid training and have read tons and tona of information on sids, child abuse and other day care related things. I charge less because I can. I only need a small amount of money to be able to stay at home and work from home. I live in an expensive upscale neighborhood and there are providers charging almost double what I charge and I was one if the parents who couldn't afford t pay 250 or 300 a week per chold so when I started doing daycare I wanted to help parents out. I have a beautiful home with awesome space for daycare and I spend several hours a week researching and preparing so that I can offer superior care and what some of you are saying is I should be shut down. I hear sports all the time about licensed daycare a and the terrible things that happen and my soon was in a licensed daycare center that I was paying 250 a week for and he hated it. Staff was rude, under qualified and made it obvious they were only there for the check . This us my dream and having it taken away because I am not licensed sounds silly.
I'm curious... if you've got CPR, first aid, SIDS, etc, why not become licensed? Is it expensive or a PITB in your state?
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:42 PM
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I'm curious... if you've got CPR, first aid, SIDS, etc, why not become licensed? Is it expensive or a PITB in your state?
Not sure about pp, but its a pita here and that's my reason. And besides there really isn't any advantage.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:09 AM
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I just posted this on the town's babysitting facebook site. I'm so frustrated with these people too. I hestitated pressing the "enter" key as this is a small town and alot of people know me. But, enough is enough already. Welcome to my backbone and I may soon claim a "sh*t disturbing" stick too! I also wanted to add that I would report them myself if I know they are doing this (I have already reported 2 of them) but thought that would be a bit much.

To all of the daycare providers who are unlicensed and caring for more than two children who are not related to you:

If you are not aware, you are only legally allowed to care for only two children who are not related. If you care for more than that, then you are running an illegal daycare and you may be fined. The fine is very steep, $10,000 PER DAY that you are out of quota.

I have recently become licensed and have just become aware of this law myself. I just want to give you a heads up so you don't run into trouble with this. See page 57 for more information:
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/ccf/publ...-licensing.pdf
Well I stirred the pot. Someone's very mad at me and wrote that everyone should watch their back because I will report them. Made me smile
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:23 AM
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Well I stirred the pot. Someone's very mad at me and wrote that everyone should watch their back because I will report them. Made me smile
Well they SHOULD watch their backs
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AmyKidsCo View Post
I'm curious... if you've got CPR, first aid, SIDS, etc, why not become licensed? Is it expensive or a PITB in your state?
I can't answer for the other poster but I know in my state where I am not required to be licensed or registered (Ohio) they would likely require me to do many updates/fence in our very large backyard (over an acre) if I were to become licensed. We really don't have thousands of dollars sitting around to do so. I never want to watch 6 kids at a time (3-4 is more the ratio I enjoy) so to me being licensed would cause more heartache & expense when I am happy to only provide care for 1-2 families at a time not 5 or 6. So for me being licensed seems unnecessary because I have no intention of wanting to have multiple families all at the expense of having the state come & tell me what to do. I do have CPR certification, a college degree & report my income which is very similar to what other local providers charge.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:23 AM
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I'm not licensed either, I am "listed" there are 3 tiers of child care licensing in Texas...

Tier 1- Licensed Centers, Licensed to care for 13 or more children

Tier 2- Licensed Home Daycare- 12 or less kids

Tier 3- Registered Family Home

and Tier 4- Listed Family Home.

At this moment, because of space issues I am only a "Listed Family Home". I sent the state money, underwent FBI background check, etc. Now once we get a bigger place, I want to become a licensed home.

I babysit privately as well..... in my home or away from my home.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
I think you have a lot of misconceptions about licensed childcare in the state of MN and that's really too bad.

One licensed home that was "very dirty, had too many kids and the house smelled" doesn't mean by a long shot that's how they all are.

Furthermore, being licensed has nothing to do with offering YOU anything. It's about what it may be able to offer families looking for care in regards to some additional safeguards. Bottom line is, every single provider licensed in the state of MN has to have taken SIDS trainings, CPR and first aid courses, passed background checks (along with anyone else living in the home or even those who may just swing in for a visit now and again) and their homes inspected to make sure there aren't any structural issues that could make caring for children in the space dangerous.

Does that protect against everything that could go wrong when you leave your child in the care of a stranger? No. But it does mean the provider cared enough to jump through the hoops and there is a higher likelihood they have good intentions. It increases the odds that the person your child will be cared by will not hurt them or put them in a position to be hurt by someone or something else.

Nothing is 100% but it does reassure (at least on some level) every parent I've ever interviewed who all say they'd never leave their child with someone who hasn't found it worth it to offer them those additional securities.


As far as the food program goes I'm not sure what you're referring to? There is a multitude of food programs (plural) available and each licensed provider has the right to choose which ever one they want. There is nothing that says you have to feed the same foods over and over again, just nutritional guidelines to make sure children are being fed a balanced diet.



I am the poster of the original post above this quote, first let me say that I am a former nurse and have had all the training you need to take care of a child,second I have had two children of my own,now have families of their own. I did not need any extra training courses to raise my own kids, I raised them just fine. Do you think that women need to be licensed to raise their own kids? I know that's a loaded question, but seriously, if a women can raise her own children, then why does she need to be licensed to care for others...I know this sounds ridiculous, but it just makes a point.

As far as the licensed daycare home being dirty, no that is not the case with every licensed daycare home, but in turn does that mean that all unlicensed daycare homes are unsafe or dirty ? No, it doesn't.

Some of us unlicensed providers just choose to only care for a few kids and not make it a career, but want to do it because we love the little ones. That does not make us bad people or not responsible. It does cost a lot to be licensed and for just taking a couple kids,from the same family, it is hard for people to afford to do updates on their homes to be licensed for one thing. If you plan on making it a career and have the money to do that , then go for it.

I just don't think it is fair to judge providers for whatever choice they make,whether they are licensed or not and how they advertise. It really is nobody's business on how we conduct our own daycare business, it is up to each provider to as how they do things and their choices. It is hard enough to find kids theses days anyway as many people are losing their jobs, money is tight and they are having to pull their kids out of daycare or look for cheaper ways of finding care.

So lets not nit pic about whether one provider is licensed or not and how they advertise. Initially it is up to parents to choose the right provider for their child and there preferences.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:44 AM
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I am the poster of the original post above this quote, first let me say that I am a former nurse and have had all the training you need to take care of a child,second I have had two children of my own,now have families of their own. I did not need any extra training courses to raise my own kids, I raised them just fine. Do you think that women need to be licensed to raise their own kids? I know that's a loaded question, but seriously, if a women can raise her own children, then why does she need to be licensed to care for others...I know this sounds ridiculous, but it just makes a point.

As far as the licensed daycare home being dirty, no that is not the case with every licensed daycare home, but in turn does that mean that all unlicensed daycare homes are unsafe or dirty ? No, it doesn't.

Some of us unlicensed providers just choose to only care for a few kids and not make it a career, but want to do it because we love the little ones. That does not make us bad people or not responsible. It does cost a lot to be licensed and for just taking a couple kids,from the same family, it is hard for people to afford to do updates on their homes to be licensed for one thing. If you plan on making it a career and have the money to do that , then go for it.

I just don't think it is fair to judge providers for whatever choice they make,whether they are licensed or not and how they advertise. It really is nobody's business on how we conduct our own daycare business, it is up to each provider to as how they do things and their choices. It is hard enough to find kids theses days anyway as many people are losing their jobs, money is tight and they are having to pull their kids out of daycare or look for cheaper ways of finding care.

So lets not nit pic about whether one provider is licensed or not and how they advertise. Initially it is up to parents to choose the right provider for their child and there preferences.
Sorry, not the one above this one,but the one that this care giver was referring too.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:45 AM
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Gals.......the OP used the word "ILLEGAL" right in the title of her post! And she used the word "illegal" throughout the post.

Unlicensed and illegal are two different word.

If you are LEGALLY unlicensed... then the OP was NOT referring to you.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Gals.......the OP used the word "ILLEGAL" right in the title of her post! And she used the word "illegal" throughout the post.

Unlicensed and illegal are two different word.

If you are LEGALLY unlicensed... then the OP was NOT referring to you.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia View Post
Gals.......the OP used the word "ILLEGAL" right in the title of her post! And she used the word "illegal" throughout the post.

Unlicensed and illegal are two different word.

If you are LEGALLY unlicensed... then the OP was NOT referring to you.
I am thinking the unregistered poster IS or may be operating illegally.

In MN you can care for children legally unlicensed IF the children are ALL from one family. No limit on the number of kids but they must ALL be from one family.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:52 AM
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unregistered....
Um, we are discussing ILLEGALLY OPERATING A CHILD CARE! NO ONE is saying unlicensed is bad. Illegal is bad. It's really not that confusing. Should I get out the dictionary?
Oy Vey!

I agree with blackcat...btw.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy Hearts View Post
I just posted this on the town's babysitting facebook site. I'm so frustrated with these people too. I hestitated pressing the "enter" key as this is a small town and alot of people know me. But, enough is enough already. Welcome to my backbone and I may soon claim a "sh*t disturbing" stick too! I also wanted to add that I would report them myself if I know they are doing this (I have already reported 2 of them) but thought that would be a bit much.

To all of the daycare providers who are unlicensed and caring for more than two children who are not related to you:

If you are not aware, you are only legally allowed to care for only two children who are not related. If you care for more than that, then you are running an illegal daycare and you may be fined. The fine is very steep, $10,000 PER DAY that you are out of quota.

I have recently become licensed and have just become aware of this law myself. I just want to give you a heads up so you don't run into trouble with this. See page 57 for more information:
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/ccf/publ...-licensing.pdf
I think this is a great idea. There may be providers that don't realize they are operating illegally.

I am LEGALLY unlicensed and am very careful to not go over the limit of how many kids I can care for. I did unknowingly come very close to operating illegally though. My province's rules changed in 2011 but I didn't know about it until just a few months ago ....luckily I never did go over the limit...but it was just that...LUCK.

Now I know I need to check the regulations every single year to make sure I'm following the rules. You posting that may help someone who might not realize that they are operating illegally. And if someone has a problem with it, maybe they have something to hide.

Last edited by MissSarah; 06-05-2013 at 11:14 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:19 AM
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I am thinking the unregistered poster IS or may be operating illegally.

In MN you can care for children legally unlicensed IF the children are ALL from one family. No limit on the number of kids but they must ALL be from one family.

Sorry, I only AM caring for one family, with 2 kids, so I am going by the book!
I still think this whole subject is ridiculous that you are all complaining about illegal or legal care. At least we all want to care for children and want the best for them.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:25 AM
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Sorry, I only AM caring for one family, with 2 kids, so I am going by the book!
I still think this whole subject is ridiculous that you are all complaining about illegal or legal care. At least we all want to care for children and want the best for them.

Illegal care has nothing to do with what is best for children.

Which is why it's illegal
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:25 AM
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I can't answer for the other poster but I know in my state where I am not required to be licensed or registered (Ohio) they would likely require me to do many updates/fence in our very large backyard (over an acre) if I were to become licensed. We really don't have thousands of dollars sitting around to do so. I never want to watch 6 kids at a time (3-4 is more the ratio I enjoy) so to me being licensed would cause more heartache & expense when I am happy to only provide care for 1-2 families at a time not 5 or 6. So for me being licensed seems unnecessary because I have no intention of wanting to have multiple families all at the expense of having the state come & tell me what to do. I do have CPR certification, a college degree & report my income which is very similar to what other local providers charge.
This for me too.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:26 AM
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Sorry, I only AM caring for one family, with 2 kids, so I am going by the book!
I still think this whole subject is ridiculous that you are all complaining about illegal or legal care. At least we all want to care for children and want the best for them.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure since you seem to feel so strongly about illegal providers being able to operate.

However, I would still not hesitate to report someone who was operating illegally.

It is illegal and I could never in good conscience support someone who purposely broke the law just because they feel entitled to do so.

Illegal is illegal no matter how you slice it.

What does wanting best for the children you care for have to do with whether or not you are legally or illegally operating??

Wanting the best for children has NOTHING to do with whether or not a provider is licensed or LEGALLY unlicensed.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:33 AM
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I wrote the following post three years ago....and I still feel exactly the same:

When I opened my program 13 years ago, I went through the licensing process. I knew a lady down the street from my home who, at the same time, chose to operate an unlicensed program, which is against regs here in Ca. unless care is only for one family. I chose to mind my own business, I knew her, she seemed like a fine person, as did her (what I thought was) husband, who did some volunteer work for the elementary school that my children were attending. I did lose out on a couple of potential clients, who decided that cheaper was the way to go, but I figure those parents were only thinking about the bottom line, so I probably didn't want them as clients anyway. She ran her business there for about three years, until one day I noticed helicopters flying overhead. This woman, who I never had an issue with, who seemed to be doing all the right things, had alot to hide, hence the reason for not being licensed. The man living in her home had been molesting her daughter (with Mom's knowledge) and had been molesting two three year olds attending her program for some time. He also had several prior felony convictions for drugs and assault charges and the provider herself had done jail time for other offenses. The man is now serving 25 years to life and she did time as well for not preventing it from happening.

I have kicked myself for years over not reporting her unlicensed program to licensing. I COULD have prevented children from being molested, but I chose to "look the other way" because her unlicensed program was "none of my business". In some regard, I have always felt responsible for what occurred in that home.

That being said, of course there are many, many unlicensed programs that go above and beyond. But without that background check, how do we TRULY know that the people operating these programs are who they say they are? Is it a gut instinct that parents should have about the person they are interviewing?

I will NEVER look the other way again. If I EVER come across an unlicensed program, it will immediately be reported, regardless of how clean their home is, how nice they seem to be, or whether or not I "see" any violations other than not having a license. As they say "never judge a book by it's cover" and I think that applies here.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:41 AM
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Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure since you seem to feel so strongly about illegal providers being able to operate.

However, I would still not hesitate to report someone who was operating illegally.

It is illegal and I could never in good conscience support someone who purposely broke the law just because they feel entitled to do so.

Illegal is illegal no matter how you slice it.

What does wanting best for the children you care for have to do with whether or not you are legally or illegally operating??

Wanting the best for children has NOTHING to do with whether or not a provider is licensed or LEGALLY unlicensed.


All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:52 AM
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All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.
I understand what you are trying to say but if a provider is ILLEGALLY operating, how do we KNOW that they are or aren't following the rules and regulations?

If a provider is operating illegally, she isn't subject to unannounced inspections so there is NO way to know that she is or isn't following those guidelines other than her word.

...and I would NEVER take someone's word for something, especially if they were operating illegally because if they are willing to take that risk then their word is definitely not worth much...kwim?

Last edited by Blackcat31; 06-05-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:54 AM
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All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.
Now I'm officially DISMAYED! "loving kids" doesn't make illegal daycare ok. Holy Good Grief! Nobody is telling anyone how to run a business! How on earth can you support illegal operation? Seriously?
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:58 AM
Willow Willow is offline
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I am the poster of the original post above this quote, first let me say that I am a former nurse and have had all the training you need to take care of a child,second I have had two children of my own,now have families of their own. I did not need any extra training courses to raise my own kids, I raised them just fine. Do you think that women need to be licensed to raise their own kids? I know that's a loaded question, but seriously, if a women can raise her own children, then why does she need to be licensed to care for others...I know this sounds ridiculous, but it just makes a point.

As far as the licensed daycare home being dirty, no that is not the case with every licensed daycare home, but in turn does that mean that all unlicensed daycare homes are unsafe or dirty ? No, it doesn't.

Some of us unlicensed providers just choose to only care for a few kids and not make it a career, but want to do it because we love the little ones. That does not make us bad people or not responsible. It does cost a lot to be licensed and for just taking a couple kids,from the same family, it is hard for people to afford to do updates on their homes to be licensed for one thing. If you plan on making it a career and have the money to do that , then go for it.

I just don't think it is fair to judge providers for whatever choice they make,whether they are licensed or not and how they advertise. It really is nobody's business on how we conduct our own daycare business, it is up to each provider to as how they do things and their choices. It is hard enough to find kids theses days anyway as many people are losing their jobs, money is tight and they are having to pull their kids out of daycare or look for cheaper ways of finding care.

So lets not nit pic about whether one provider is licensed or not and how they advertise. Initially it is up to parents to choose the right provider for their child and there preferences.

Naw, let's please nitpick some.

I happen to think it's great fun depending on the topic

CPR instruction has changed even in the last 5 years. Certification is only good for a year or two and for very good reason. Science discovers new bits about health and human biology all the time. As a nurse I would expect you to know that?? What was once considered best practice as far as breaths to compressions go is now considered outdated at best, dangerous at worst. You need to stay current if you expect to have the most relevant and best life saving techniques under your belt.

THAT ABSOLUTELY MATTERS TO THE CHILDREN IN ANYONE'S CARE.

When knowing and not knowing is literally a matter of life and death - YES. IT MATTERS.

While it was wonderful I took CPR in high school, what I was taught then is nothing like I'd ever do now. Most people are saved by CURRENT CPR practice than ever before. The reason for that? It's evolved drastically.

So unless you were a former nurse as in a year former, your training is no longer current and what you think you know as correct could in fact at this point be dangerous.



Second - no one is talking about needing a daycare license to raise kids, I have no idea where you're even pulling that from?? The topic is about operating a legal daycare (licensed or non). It's about providing day care for SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILDREN. Not raising. And no one said anything about your own. Heck, no one has said anything about you at all, so it's tough to understand why you keep trying to turn this topic in the direction of your life specifically.

In general, there is a heck of a lot more leeway when discussing what you can and cannot (or should not) do with your own kids as opposed to someone else's. Especially when it comes to the law. Break the law with your own kids, that's your own beef. Break the law with someone else's children and you're talking a whole different ball of wax there.

I don't particularly care if you believe that there is a difference between the two. Bottom line though is *any* illegal activity is just that - ILLEGAL. Whether you think it's for good reason the laws exist or not is moot.


On the mention of dirty homes YOU are the one that brought that up, not me. As if to imply licensed homes are by standard, filthy and the process itself holds no merit.

Basically that all providers that go through the process are morons. I thought it was a ridiculous notion and that's the only reason I addressed it.

When speaking of judgment your post was absolutely steeped in it.


The money thing is geographical and otherwise entirely a matter of perspective. I pay *nothing* for my daycare license unless you count the $50 background check. Everything else involved: my trainings, having a first aide kit, maintaining a safe home, keeping my fire extinguishers in working order etc. - are all things I consider necessary to keeping my own children and family safe anyway. I would do them regardless of daycare licensing protocol.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:59 AM
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unregistered....
Um, we are discussing ILLEGALLY OPERATING A CHILD CARE! NO ONE is saying unlicensed is bad. Illegal is bad. It's really not that confusing. Should I get out the dictionary?
Oy Vey!

I agree with blackcat...btw.
I think some of the problem is that in some states it is illegal no matter what and other states it is legal to be unlicensed. So, in some posts when the poster says unlicensed in her state that means illegal. Other posters are possibly assuming they are talking about all unlicensed care.

I know the OP specifically stated illegal but others haven't used the word illegal or they had a long post and only used it in the first sentence and then started to just use unlicensed.

This was my mistake in reading some so I'm thinking maybe others did the same thing.

There is a post that starts out saying in their state it is illegal to be unlicensed period but by the time I got to the end I was thinking she was just talking legally unlicensed.

I'm thinking this is why people are defending their legally unlicensed care. Does that make sense?

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Old 06-05-2013, 11:59 AM
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All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.
operating illegally would most definitely be not following the rules. I'm the OP and I very clearly stated, as did most of the other posters, that I am not against unlicensed provideds, but illegal providers. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't know how else to say it to get my point across
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:00 PM
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And who the heck thinks ALL illegalproviders love kids and are sweethearts? I bet those operating ILLEGALLY are not so awesome, and are fully aware they are breaking the law. It's for.$$$, easy money with no oversight.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:01 PM
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All I was trying to say is that at least, however we as providers run our business, we all love the kids and have chosen to be a daycare provider.

As long as you follow the rules for either way,there should be no one telling us how we should run our daycare as people are trying to say with all these posts.

So as long as illicit drug dealers follow the same protocol when dispensing their cocaine as legitimate pharmacists do when dispensing antibiotics they should TOTALLY be considered on the same playing field then.......
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:02 PM
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The money thing is geographical and otherwise entirely a matter of perspective. I pay *nothing* for my daycare license unless you count the $50 background check. Everything else involved: my trainings, having a first aide kit, maintaining a safe home, keeping my fire extinguishers in working order etc. - are all things I consider necessary to keeping my own children and family safe anyway. I would do them regardless of daycare licensing protocol.
I actually do pay nothing to be licensed.

My county does the background checks for free.

Getting a license is NOT hard in this state.

Personally, I feel we are one of the most lax states when it comes to costs associated with licensing and with regulations and standards.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:05 PM
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And who the heck thinks ALL illegalproviders love kids and are sweethearts?
Heck, I AM a LEGALLY licensed provider and I don't love my DCK's (I like them and grow rather fond of them though ) and I am certainly not a sweetheart as I can be rather difficult to deal with at times.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:05 PM
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Willow, yep yep yep! Thank you!
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:10 PM
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For clarification, in EVERY. SINGLE. POST that I have posted on this thread, I am referring to ILLEGALLY unlicensed daycare providers in the state of Kansas.


I truly appreciate everyones feedback and I'm truly sorry if it came across that I disapprove of unlicensed providers. In the state I live in, there is a very small window of opportunity for providers to even be legally unlicensed, so my opinion on unlicensed vs licensed is pretty close to irrelevant.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:16 PM
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I actually do pay nothing to be licensed.

My county does the background checks for free.

Getting a license is NOT hard in this state.

Personally, I feel we are one of the most lax states when it comes to costs associated with licensing and with regulations and standards.
See now back in Benton I don't remember paying for background checks but I do know there was a license fee. It wasn't anything outrageous but when I moved and asked my new licensor how much I should make my check out for she was like, huh, what??

I have no idea about other states but it always boggles my mind when people say it's expensive. Unless your home itself is unsafe I just don't see how. I mean shouldn't that matter that its deemed unsafe for your own *family* even more so than talking about it merely being a hoop to jump through to operate a business out of it??
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:20 PM
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For clarification, in EVERY. SINGLE. POST that I have posted on this thread, I am referring to ILLEGALLY unlicensed daycare providers in the state of Kansas.


I truly appreciate everyones feedback and I'm truly sorry if it came across that I disapprove of unlicensed providers. In the state I live in, there is a very small window of opportunity for providers to even be legally unlicensed, so my opinion on unlicensed vs licensed is pretty close to irrelevant.

All but one poster grasps your point well crafty, and I'm sure at this point that one is just intentionally trying to stir the pot.


No need to clarify, the rest of us are all in agreement with you
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:22 PM
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operating illegally would most definitely be not following the rules. I'm the OP and I very clearly stated, as did most of the other posters, that I am not against unlicensed provideds, but illegal providers. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't know how else to say it to get my point across
I get your point...lol You can't always make everyone understand what you are saying and some people won't ever get it, what can you do?
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:25 PM
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For clarification, in EVERY. SINGLE. POST that I have posted on this thread, I am referring to ILLEGALLY unlicensed daycare providers in the state of Kansas.


I truly appreciate everyones feedback and I'm truly sorry if it came across that I disapprove of unlicensed providers. In the state I live in, there is a very small window of opportunity for providers to even be legally unlicensed, so my opinion on unlicensed vs licensed is pretty close to irrelevant.
I can see why there was some confusion initially, but we cleared that up, I think. I have a licensed center, and I jump through many licensing hoops, not because I need the exercise, but because I MUST and it's the right thing to do. Unlicensed is fine, if it is legal. No issues there, they are following the law and providing quality care.

I want to thank you for starting the thread. Like the gal in NY who said they are cracking.down on illegal care, this is an important and relevant problem. It effects us all.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:31 PM
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CraftyMissBeth.....every time I see your screen name, I get "She's Crafty" by the Beastie Boys stuck in my head.
Thanks for the great thread, but not the ear worm!
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:43 PM
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Awesome! Way to go NY!
That is EXACTLY what needs to happen in all 50 states.
Think of the resources dedicated to fighting the so-called War on Drugs and busting prostitutes and incarcerating non violent drug offenses. Divert.a fraction of that $$ to protecting children AND improving and expanding subsidized child.care for thepoor. Yes, I said it, more government. But I digress. Sorry.
THIS is my (biggest) problem with the state's QRIS programs. Heaping more stuff to do on the regulated providers, and completely ignoring the illegal ones who have 8, or 12, or 18 kids in their homes without any regulation at all. Seriously, I visited one who had 12 kids by herself, and as I drove away, 6 more got off the school bus. My God, what if there was a fire? 18 kids, 12 of who were under 5, and several of them under 2!

It's not that there is a LACK of money so much as a lack of priorities. Someone is getting that money; someone has a stake in it, and that's the problem.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:52 PM
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I understand what you are trying to say but if a provider is ILLEGALLY operating, how do we KNOW that they are or aren't following the rules and regulations?

If a provider is operating illegally, she isn't subject to unannounced inspections so there is NO way to know that she is or isn't following those guidelines other than her word.

...and I would NEVER take someone's word for something, especially if they were operating illegally because if they are willing to take that risk then their word is definitely not worth much...kwim?

Seriously - lets stop now.You want to seem to drag this on and on.
Just leave it as WE All, illegal or legal love taking care of kids!! However we choose to do it, it's the fact that if it wasn't for us daycare providers, who would watch the kids while the parents are at work, what would parents do.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your replies as I am done with this subject as it seems it means something to you as far as illegal or legal and not whether or not anyone gives good care or is qualified to care for a child even if they are doing it not quite by the book. A inspection,a piece of paper saying you went through classes does not make you a better care giver then anyone else. I am an excellent caregiver, love the kids and always give them the best care that I can.

If you can never take someone's word for it and never use your instinct, then you must have trust issues. How can I take YOUR word for it that you are a good provider, a piece of paper is not saying that you may be. Not tying to pick a fight, but
you get my drift.

Enough is Enough. I'm done with his subject. I'm not trying to sound like I am any better then you, just tying to say that however we have chosen to do daycare the fact is that we all are doing it because we love the kids.
It's been nice chatting with you, it is so nice to have this website for support and talking to other provides.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:58 PM
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THIS is my (biggest) problem with the state's QRIS programs. Heaping more stuff to do on the regulated providers, and completely ignoring the illegal ones who have 8, or 12, or 18 kids in their homes without any regulation at all. Seriously, I visited one who had 12 kids by herself, and as I drove away, 6 more got off the school bus. My God, what if there was a fire? 18 kids, 12 of who were under 5, and several of them under 2!

It's not that there is a LACK of money so much as a lack of priorities. Someone is getting that money; someone has a stake in it, and that's the problem.
wow! 18??? Holy Toledo. Outrageous

Well, she is just doing it because she "loves kids", not for the illegal cash she is raking in. (sorry to beat the "unregistered" dead horse again)

Yep, there is plenty of money in state budgets, but the urgency isn't there. Until someone dies. THEN there will be a public outcry. For a
. Then it will go back on the back burner.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:00 PM
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Unregistered - pervs and money grubbers can also be drawn to doing daycare. That's not opinion, it's common sense and fact.

Not by a long shot does everyone who provides care have good intentions. Many don't even LIKE kids.

Saying instinct alone can pick every one of those individuals with bad intentions out is beyond insanity......I just don't believe a rational person could ever actually believe such a thing......
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:04 PM
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wow! 18??? Holy Toledo. Outrageous

Well, she is just doing it because she "loves kids", not for the illegal cash she is raking in. (sorry to beat the "unregistered" dead horse again)

Yep, there is plenty of money in state budgets, but the urgency isn't there. Until someone dies. THEN there will be a public outcry. For a
. Then it will go back on the back burner.
I very nearly choked when my PA told me how "wonderful" this person was because she "sometimes even does care for free when parents can't afford it".

In the meantime, the provider's brand-new house was HUGE. The day I visited, she was serving afternoon snack. A box of animal crackers, which the children would walk or crawl over to her for, and she'd give them handfuls. Like feeding bread to the ducks at the park...lol.

What really pisses me off is that she shut down due to being "harassed" by licensing, then reopened a few months later. She tells people that she "has her license back" (she was regulated at one time, NEVER licensed), and they believe her. We have to post our license, but of course, parents don't know this.

People in the community just say "oh well, as long as she's taking good care of the kids".

Um....she had 18 kids there, what does "taking care of them" mean to you?
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:07 PM
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Seriously - lets stop now.You want to seem to drag this on and on.
Just leave it as WE All, illegal or legal love taking care of kids!! However we choose to do it, it's the fact that if it wasn't for us daycare providers, who would watch the kids while the parents are at work, what would parents do.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your replies as I am done with this subject as it seems it means something to you as far as illegal or legal and not whether or not anyone gives good care or is qualified to care for a child even if they are doing it not quite by the book. A inspection,a piece of paper saying you went through classes does not make you a better care giver then anyone else. I am an excellent caregiver, love the kids and always give them the best care that I can.

If you can never take someone's word for it and never use your instinct, then you must have trust issues. How can I take YOUR word for it that you are a good provider, a piece of paper is not saying that you may be. Not tying to pick a fight, but
you get my drift.

Enough is Enough. I'm done with his subject. I'm not trying to sound like I am any better then you, just tying to say that however we have chosen to do daycare the fact is that we all are doing it because we love the kids.
It's been nice chatting with you, it is so nice to have this website for support and talking to other provides.
WRONG, WRONG AND WRONG! Outrageous statement. Read the post by Crystal above. That lady loved kids? Gimme a break! And read what Heidi just wrote! No, doesn't do.18 kids illegally because she loves kids, but because she loves $$$.
As for not taking people's "word" for it, I suspect you are operating illegally, otherwise WHY would you support BREAKING THE LAW?? Oh, but you won't reply, because you're "done with this thread. "

". Awesome!
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:08 PM
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Seriously - lets stop now.You want to seem to drag this on and on.
Just leave it as WE All, illegal or legal love taking care of kids!! However we choose to do it, it's the fact that if it wasn't for us daycare providers, who would watch the kids while the parents are at work, what would parents do.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your replies as I am done with this subject as it seems it means something to you as far as illegal or legal and not whether or not anyone gives good care or is qualified to care for a child even if they are doing it not quite by the book. A inspection,a piece of paper saying you went through classes does not make you a better care giver then anyone else. I am an excellent caregiver, love the kids and always give them the best care that I can.

If you can never take someone's word for it and never use your instinct, then you must have trust issues. How can I take YOUR word for it that you are a good provider, a piece of paper is not saying that you may be. Not tying to pick a fight, but
you get my drift.

Enough is Enough. I'm done with his subject. I'm not trying to sound like I am any better then you, just tying to say that however we have chosen to do daycare the fact is that we all are doing it because we love the kids.
It's been nice chatting with you, it is so nice to have this website for support and talking to other provides.
Um, you are the one who re--posted and continued to make your point so not sure where you are getting that I am the one dragging it out... but whatever...

I have repeatedly posted because you have still NOT answered any of the questions that have been posed to you. You just keep saying the same thing.

That you are a good provider who loves kids.

So what? How does anyone actually know that? How can you really be in support of a provider who would choose to operate illegally?

How can you not understand how much of an impact that has on others?

How can you seriously be alright with someone breaking the law?

"Gee, officer I really really really love to drive fast so don't give me a ticket for speeding. I normally follow all the rules for driving safe but since I just love to drive fast I don't think I deserve a ticket." ~ See how ridiculous that thought process is?

And you don't have to take my word. You can see my inspection report and that verifies AND supports my words.

In other words, that is PROOF that I am following regulations.

You can't prove that you are following rules/regs other than simply saying so. It isn't a matter of instincts or trust. It is a matter of following the law.

I don't know how to say that any clearer.

Again, just because you say you love children and want to provide good care to them doesn't mean you actually are. (I am NOT saying you aren't...just trying to point out that again, words mean nothing as far as proof goes.)

For the record, I NEVER once said I was better than you. I never even implied that....

......and you are darned right it means something to me that providers are or aren't legally or illegally unlicensed. Why would it not?

I've dedicated over 2 decades of my life to providing legally licensed care to children so when others who choose to do the same thing but NOT follow the law, then I feel it is well within my rights to feel strongly about it.

Last edited by Blackcat31; 06-05-2013 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:09 PM
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I hadn't really read this thread until today. I am really considering not renewing my license next time around, but I will be operating legally unlicensed if that's the case.

Why?

Because I am feeling like the Gov't has is becoming so overly involved in how I run my business. It's gone beyond health and safety long ago. Since I generally have only 3-4 kids, and without a license I can have 3, I wouldn't even be losing anything except a lot of work. I would continue to keep my CPR and other training up-to-date, and I'd keep my licensing handbook handy as a guideline.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:16 PM
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wow! 18??? Holy Toledo. Outrageous

Well, she is just doing it because she "loves kids", not for the illegal cash she is raking in. (sorry to beat the "unregistered" dead horse again)

Yep, there is plenty of money in state budgets, but the urgency isn't there. Until someone dies. THEN there will be a public outcry. For a
. Then it will go back on the back burner.
(bolding mine)

This is why it is important to point out the difference between ILLEGAL and UNLICENSED. When something tragic does happen the focus is put in the wrong place.

Here in BC there was a death that occurred in an ILLEGAL unlicensed family home daycare. The woman was caring for 6 children while only legally allowed to care for 2. In the news report they repeatedly said UNLICENSED instead of ILLEGAL. There is a huge difference between the two but unfortunately people who watched the news report may automatically assume they are the same thing. I am unlicensed but am doing nothing wrong and I am completely LEGAL and I don't like being lumped in with someone who chooses to break the law.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:35 PM
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I hadn't really read this thread until today. I am really considering not renewing my license next time around, but I will be operating legally unlicensed if that's the case.

Why?

Because I am feeling like the Gov't has is becoming so overly involved in how I run my business. It's gone beyond health and safety long ago. Since I generally have only 3-4 kids, and without a license I can have 3, I wouldn't even be losing anything except a lot of work. I would continue to keep my CPR and other training up-to-date, and I'd keep my licensing handbook handy as a guideline.
ok...while I was typing this, others were also typing. I am in no way condoning ILLEGAL care, nor do I intend to provide illegal care. Just so we're all clear here.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:47 PM
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Um, you are the one who re--posted and continued to make your point so not sure where you are getting that I am the one dragging it out... but whatever...

I have repeatedly posted because you have still NOT answered any of the questions that have been posed to you. You just keep saying the same thing.

That you are a good provider who loves kids.

So what? How does anyone actually know that? How can you really be in support of a provider who would choose to operate illegally?

How can you not understand how much of an impact that has on others?

How can you seriously be alright with someone breaking the law?

"Gee, officer I really really really love to drive fast so don't give me a ticket for speeding. I normally follow all the rules for driving safe but since I just love to drive fast I don't think I deserve a ticket." ~ See how ridiculous that thought process is?

And you don't have to take my word. You can see my inspection report and that verifies AND supports my words.

In other words, that is PROOF that I am following regulations.

You can't prove that you are following rules/regs other than simply saying so. It isn't a matter of instincts or trust. It is a matter of following the law.

I don't know how to say that any clearer.

Again, just because you say you love children and want to provide good care to them doesn't mean you actually are. (I am NOT saying you aren't...just trying to point out that again, words mean nothing as far as proof goes.)

For the record, I NEVER once said I was better than you. I never even implied that....

......and you are darned right it means something to me that providers are or aren't legally or illegally unlicensed. Why would it not?

I've dedicated over 2 decades of my life to providing legally licensed care to children so when others who choose to do the same thing but NOT follow the law, then I feel it is well within my rights to feel strongly about it.

Blackcat, I respect your opinion. I AM doing my daycare legally with only caring for 2 children from one family, so there is no issue there and that is why I only care for one family because of it being legal. What anyone else chooses to do is really none of my concern and none of my business as for all the rest of you.Your doing what your doing as you believe and that is what everyone else is doing.
I do not have to answer any other of your questions, my WORD is good, I am a good person, a caring person and if you don't take my word for anything, then that is your choice.
Whether people do daycare for just the money or whatever, but being a daycare provider is not easy work, long hours, screaming kids, poopy pants,teaching the kids, if your doing daycare and you don't even like kids, that makes no sense to me, so however we chose to do it, we should not be criticized for how we do it and if we are legal or not.Parents will know if we are good or not and if we are not good then they have the choice to take their kids to someone else.
I chose to do daycare for one family,that is my business, no one else's.
So please don't judge people on how they choose to do their daycare, it is their business and only their business.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:54 PM
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Blackcat, I respect your opinion. I AM doing my daycare legally with only caring for 2 children from one family, so there is no issue there and that is why I only care for one family because of it being legal. What anyone else chooses to do is really none of my concern and none of my business as for all the rest of you.Your doing what your doing as you believe and that is what everyone else is doing.
I do not have to answer any other of your questions, my WORD is good, I am a good person, a caring person and if you don't take my word for anything, then that is your choice.
Whether people do daycare for just the money or whatever, but being a daycare provider is not easy work, long hours, screaming kids, poopy pants,teaching the kids, if your doing daycare and you don't even like kids, that makes no sense to me, so however we chose to do it, we should not be criticized for how we do it and if we are legal or not.Parents will know if we are good or not and if we are not good then they have the choice to take their kids to someone else.
I chose to do daycare for one family,that is my business, no one else's.
So please don't judge people on how they choose to do their daycare, it is their business and only their business.
FWIW~ You ARE doing what works for you and doing it LEGALLY so I have NO issue with that at all.

As a matter of fact, I respect you for following the state's guidelines.

My only issue is illegal providers.

If that isn't you then I am definitely NOT judging you or passing judgment towards you.

Anyone doing anything illegally though deserves and asks to be judged.

I can't help that.
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  #97  
Old 06-05-2013, 01:54 PM
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Heidi Heidi is offline
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Blackcat, I respect your opinion. I AM doing my daycare legally with only caring for 2 children from one family, so there is no issue there and that is why I only care for one family because of it being legal. What anyone else chooses to do is really none of my concern and none of my business as for all the rest of you.Your doing what your doing as you believe and that is what everyone else is doing.
I do not have to answer any other of your questions, my WORD is good, I am a good person, a caring person and if you don't take my word for anything, then that is your choice.
Whether people do daycare for just the money or whatever, but being a daycare provider is not easy work, long hours, screaming kids, poopy pants,teaching the kids, if your doing daycare and you don't even like kids, that makes no sense to me, so however we chose to do it, we should not be criticized for how we do it and if we are legal or not.Parents will know if we are good or not and if we are not good then they have the choice to take their kids to someone else.
I chose to do daycare for one family,that is my business, no one else's.
So please don't judge people on how they choose to do their daycare, it is their business and only their business.
I don't understand. Are you arguing that if someone wants to do illegal daycare that we should mind our own business and let it go?

How about if they want to drive illegally? Lets say they have DWI's up the wazoo or just never took the test?

Decide to open a restaurant from their home next door, without benefit of inspections, licenses, or training of any kind (hey...mom was a great cook).

Decide to cut hair, give perms, or offer tanning services without a license or oversight?

A liquor store or bar?

Want to sell pot or cocaine just down the block?

Where would you draw the line?

Funny thing is, I think some regulations or laws are just plain over-the-top. But does it mean I should only follow the ones I like, because breaking them "isn't hurting anyone".

It DOES hurt someone...those people who made the commitment and took the time to "jump through all the hoops".

If you don't like a law, you can lobby your congress person. But, breaking the law in the meantime is still not okay.
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  #98  
Old 06-05-2013, 02:09 PM
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To Black cat,

Thank you for understanding me. I appreciate it.

As far as this poster I'm posting a reply to,
Wow you are taking this way out of proportion. That is all I will say.
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  #99  
Old 06-05-2013, 02:14 PM
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To Black cat,

Thank you for understanding me. I appreciate it.

As far as this poster I'm posting a reply to,
Wow you are taking this way out of proportion. That is all I will say.
Blackcat
I was not replying to you about the Wow commnet, it was to the poster that posted right after my one before this one. Sorry.
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  #100  
Old 06-05-2013, 02:32 PM
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Happy Hearts Happy Hearts is offline
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Seriously - lets stop now.You want to seem to drag this on and on.
Just leave it as WE All, illegal or legal love taking care of kids!! However we choose to do it, it's the fact that if it wasn't for us daycare providers, who would watch the kids while the parents are at work, what would parents do.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your replies as I am done with this subject as it seems it means something to you as far as illegal or legal and not whether or not anyone gives good care or is qualified to care for a child even if they are doing it not quite by the book. A inspection,a piece of paper saying you went through classes does not make you a better care giver then anyone else. I am an excellent caregiver, love the kids and always give them the best care that I can.

If you can never take someone's word for it and never use your instinct, then you must have trust issues. How can I take YOUR word for it that you are a good provider, a piece of paper is not saying that you may be. Not tying to pick a fight, but
you get my drift.

Enough is Enough. I'm done with his subject. I'm not trying to sound like I am any better then you, just tying to say that however we have chosen to do daycare the fact is that we all are doing it because we love the kids.
It's been nice chatting with you, it is so nice to have this website for support and talking to other provides.
Well, we all know you are unethical.
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