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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>4 Yr Old Bully
Tonic79 10:50 AM 07-18-2019
I have an extremely active 4 year old bully. I have talked with her parents and they think it's normal. Other parents are starting to get upset. We are also worried because we are spending so much time with the 1 kid the other children are not getting any attention. Any suggestions?
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Cat Herder 11:27 AM 07-18-2019
The only things we are allowed to do is shadow and redirect. Watching for escalation patterns and intervening works, too.

At this point, I have a conference and work out a behavior improvement plan. I then put a star on the calendar for 30 days out. I work the plan we agree on and if I have not seen the improvement I need on that 30th day, I term. If the behavior escalates and takes up the majority of my day, I term.

I may not be able to do that much longer as I am being asked to take new training that says being kicked out of preschool is what leads kids to prison. Not the behavior that got them kicked out, but us kicking them out. I hope I read it wrong. Facepalm
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Ariana 12:08 PM 07-18-2019
At 4 I would be pushing for an evaluation. Might be ADHD or ODD or something similar.
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Cat Herder 12:29 PM 07-18-2019
Originally Posted by Ariana:
At 4 I would be pushing for an evaluation. Might be ADHD or ODD or something similar.
That can be part of the behavior plan.
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knoxmomof2 01:48 PM 07-18-2019
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I may not be able to do that much longer as I am being asked to take new training that says being kicked out of preschool is what leads kids to prison. Not the behavior that got them kicked out, but us kicking them out. I hope I read it wrong. Facepalm
Insane! This kind of crap is why I stay small at 4 or less to stay license exempt. It is hard enough to do this job without someone telling me that I have to keep a child in care that is unmanageable and could cost me the rest of my clients. I have used the phrase "I think he's outgrown my program/ he needs more than I can provide" before, maybe that's a possibility for you?
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Ariana 06:20 PM 07-18-2019
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I may not be able to do that much longer as I am being asked to take new training that says being kicked out of preschool is what leads kids to prison. Not the behavior that got them kicked out, but us kicking them out. I hope I read it wrong. Facepalm
Impulse control problems lead to prison and yes kids getting kicked out of preschool does not help the situation because for some of them we are all they have. I worked with a kid two days a week for over a year and when he went to school it undid everything I had worked on because of lack of supervision, lack of teachers ability to give consequences and a parent who didnít give a hoot.

If we as teachers/educators/carers are responsible for so much and for sending a kid to prison then why the hell donít we have any power to refer? Assess? Give real consequences? They blame us for everything but we have no power to actually do anything. Every one of us knows what needs to be done but rarely can we do it. We come up against a brick wall called parents and BS policies.
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Heidi 06:10 AM 07-19-2019
DSo true
Originally Posted by Ariana:
Impulse control problems lead to prison and yes kids getting kicked out of preschool does not help the situation because for some of them we are all they have. I worked with a kid two days a week for over a year and when he went to school it undid everything I had worked on because of lack of supervision, lack of teachers ability to give consequences and a parent who didnít give a hoot.

If we as teachers/educators/carers are responsible for so much and for sending a kid to prison then why the hell donít we have any power to refer? Assess? Give real consequences? They blame us for everything but we have no power to actually do anything. Every one of us knows what needs to be done but rarely can we do it. We come up against a brick wall called parents and BS policies.
So true! Honestly, almost every "term" I had were because of the parents, not the kid, but one was so violent years ago, I reached out to EVERYONE for help. Early Childhood, social workers, childcare resource people, anyone who might give me a clue as to what I could do with him. He was 2 when I got him, 3 when I termed.

I was told again and again that it was "normal" because toddlers bite, kick, hit, throw tantrums. I said sure, but not 20+ times a day, every day! He didn't "play" at all. He just wandered around, looking for someone to beat on. I'd try to get him interested in puzzles or playing with cars or coloring, but he'd bang 2 cars together for a minute and then just wander off looking for trouble.

I was 8 months pregnant and he would run off down the street EVERY SINGLE time we went for a walk. The only way we could go was with him in a stroller, but then he'd grab/scratch the younger child behind him. In the yard, he'd literally yank kids off the riding toys or climber. No warning, no "reason", just random and often. One morning, I counted 15 "attacks" in 2 hours!

After referring him to EC, I ended up terming, no surprise to mom. He qualified for early childhood-and that didn't work out; the structure made his behavior even worse and he completely regressed with potty training. So, mom ended up quitting her job and stayed home with him until school started, and low-and-behold, he ended up in the gifted-and-talented program ( back when they had those), and was a talented athlete.

Mom and I stay in contact on FB. He is now a 20 year old man, and recently saved a random woman's life. It sounds like he's turned into a nice young man.

Sometimes "bad" kids are truly just misunderstood, but I could not deal with his behavior. Not by myself, without support, and with much younger children around. No one, myself included, was safe with him around.

I'm glad things turned out for him, but it was beyond my skill set or resources.
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Blackcat31 06:21 AM 07-19-2019
Ironically for me those kids I've had to terminate ended up getting help and assistance because they were terminated.

Like most "political" ideals and concepts, they sound great on paper and in theory but rarely if ever work out in real life as they outlined.

Keeping a child in care verses terminating helps no one other than the parent in some cases but terminating them more times than not push the parent to seek alternate opinions and/or outside help.

I can name 3 kids in my career that are better BECAUSE they were termed from my program. The termination ended up being the eye opener the parent needed to understand their child needed something.

In all 3 cases the parent would have simply made do and carried on "as is" had I not made the decision to be honest and terminate care due to behavior issues or situations I was unable to remedy or control.

Terminating a child from anything shouldn't be looked at so negatively but rather as a turning point towards help and assistance or even some type of change in how the parent parents.
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Ariana 11:19 AM 07-19-2019
One of my kids best friends is in the gifted program at school. He is absolutely crazy! Luckily he is going to a different school next year because he is so disruptive. No way could a normal program help him. He came to my daughters birthday and I had to reprimand him several times. Being rude to the people running the birthday, yelling and screaming ugh. I hate having him at my house! Are gifted kids not able to learn manners? I was in a gifted program as a kid and I was nothing like this kid
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Tags:4 year old, behavior plan, bully, classroom management, escalation, redirection, shadow
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