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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Ray Rays Pledge - Child Vehicular Heatstroke
jokalima 06:03 AM 07-09-2014
http://www.rayrayspledge.com

I believe some providers already do this. Just wanted to share it so there is more awareness. Monday, another 15 month old died here in CT because he was left in a car. This is happening to often, with the stressful lives that parents have, we have to do what we can to help.
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Blackcat31 06:25 AM 07-09-2014
While I think this is a nice idea, I have issues with this type of thing.

The website states: (blue phrases)

Contrary to public perception, the majority of child hot car deaths happen as a result of a responsible, loving parent unintentionally forgetting his/her precious cargo in the backseat

I have issues with the words "responsible" and "unintentional"

They are contradictory in that context. I get that parents are busy and preoccupied and stressed and are often multi-tasking but seriously....STOP!! and put your child first.

Someone's MOST precious cargo should not be "forgotten" and if that is seriously the situation, then a campaign about parenting priorities should be done instead.

Put the cell phone down, make extra time for a Starbucks run AFTER your child is at daycare.

Child vehicular heatstroke was practically unheard of prior to placing kids in the backseat

I do NOT believe this to be true at all. I think the reason child vehicular heatstroke was unheard of is because there weren't so many distractions causing a parent to forget about their babies..... Cell phones, DVD players, GPS devices, frazzled, over worked parents living on VERY little sleep, trying to do way too much at the expense of their child.

Blaming the "backseat" is ridiculous and just another ploy to pass the buck about personal responsibilities.


I apologize to anyone my comments offend but this subject hits close to home and is a sore spot with me.
It is also a subject that I am tired of hearing about. Atleast in regards to how the parents bear no responsibility in this and efforts to promote eliminating this problem by getting child care providers and others to do more.

It is a tragedy pure and simple but NOT one that isn't preventable and as a child care provider I am angry that this is being passed off onto us as another thing WE should be responsible for.

I think people would be better off educating parents on how to NOT forget their child. Educate parents about how coffee runs, cell phones, Facebook and every other distraction out there CAN NOT come before your parental responsibilities to your child.

NOT trying to start a debate and apologies to the OP as I don't mean to lead the thread away from your point. I am done and walking away.
I just needed to get that out there and say it.
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jokalima 07:02 AM 07-09-2014
I understand your point. But I don't see it as us provider's being responsible. We shouldn't be, it is not our child and it is not in my home, so I should not be responsible. But if one morning little johnny does not show up and I was expecting him to do so, why can't I text mom asking if they are coming?

I agree, parents have to be more aware and have their priorities straight. For example, yesterday I saw a tv show where they said a 4 year old died in a pool. Mom said the lifeguards did not have enough training, ok, understood, but, where was she? I have a almost 4 yo, take him to the pool every week but he is my responsibility and no one elses. Parents are just to distracted lately and the truth is that their children not always come 1st, even if they say they do we know they don't. But me personally, if I can do something to help, I will, it will just make me feel better. Not only with the car situation, but keeping an eye on other children wherever and whenever I can.

I also go to the park a lot, I see how mom's just get distracted while talking to each other. I've seen young toddlers wonder away from them and they don't even notice. I keep an eye on them but won't alert the parent. The reason I don't alert them is because I want them to realize what they are doing wrong and yes, get scared.

I just don't see that I will be taking on more responsibility by calling or texting someone, it really doesn't cost anything for me to do it. But I do respect your opinion.
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Cradle2crayons 07:12 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by jokalima:
I understand your point. But I don't see it as us provider's being responsible. We shouldn't be, it is not our child and it is not in my home, so I should not be responsible. But if one morning little johnny does not show up and I was expecting him to do so, why can't I text mom asking if they are coming?

I agree, parents have to be more aware and have their priorities straight. For example, yesterday I saw a tv show where they said a 4 year old died in a pool. Mom said the lifeguards did not have enough training, ok, understood, but, where was she? I have a almost 4 yo, take him to the pool every week but he is my responsibility and no one elses. Parents are just to distracted lately and the truth is that their children not always come 1st, even if they say they do we know they don't. But me personally, if I can do something to help, I will, it will just make me feel better. Not only with the car situation, but keeping an eye on other children wherever and whenever I can.

I also go to the park a lot, I see how mom's just get distracted while talking to each other. I've seen young toddlers wonder away from them and they don't even notice. I keep an eye on them but won't alert the parent. The reason I don't alert them is because I want them to realize what they are doing wrong and yes, get scared.

I just don't see that I will be taking on more responsibility by calling or texting someone, it really doesn't cost anything for me to do it. But I do respect your opinion.
So what happens if a child care provider don't call a no show... Then they can be smeared by the media, Dhs, and parents for dropping the ball?

I can see it now... "This child's life could have been spared if only the daycare provider had called to check in when the child didn't show up"

Then do you think that provider will ever get business again?
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LysesKids 07:13 AM 07-09-2014
I have been doing the phone calls for the last few years when a child is late... I even state in my policies why. I want to know where that baby is if they aren't here on time ( I do 1-18 months only) because many of my newer families are pulled in so many directions nowen days
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Sugar Magnolia 07:19 AM 07-09-2014
I do call if I am not called first. I ask parents to call in ALL absences, and if they don't, I call and remind them sternly to report absences, for this exact reason.

It takes about 30 seconds.I don't mind.

This is the subtropics. Heat kills quickly in Florida.
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tehck_1013 07:22 AM 07-09-2014
This was a horrible start to my day. Tears and all. Man I am so emotional. I am well versed on the subject because of how prevalent it is but it still hurts reading about it it also hurts that the parents that this kind of thing happens to only realize how bad they were after the fact, when they take a stand after its too late. I realize how in the bigger picture, souls have to be sacrificed for awareness to save others but it isn't right. Tired of hearing about this stuff too...

parents?.... WAKE UP!

ETA: We take care of their children most of the day, and do everything that that job entails - which is A LOT. We need to remember to do a lot of things, but it all gets done. The parents take the kids home, feed them (hopefully), and put them to bed... They don't do too much, yet a bunch can't even remember to take them to school.
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midaycare 07:30 AM 07-09-2014
I always call anyway, but don't feel it should be my responsibility to do so. I'm just a worry wart, so if I have a no show, my mind is always, "Oh no! They were in a horrible accident on the way here!" But I only have up to 6 kids. If I had 12 or worked in a center, it would be a lot tougher.
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KiddieCahoots 07:36 AM 07-09-2014
Seeing all those precious little faces......., just broke my heart.


I always do the calls or text. Don't feel it's our responsibility though.
Although we're required to make the call or text in my state with state subsidized care.
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SignMeUp 07:38 AM 07-09-2014
Thank you, Blackcat.
I have a great concern that this will become a legal requirement for providers at some point. We already have far greater responsibility level than parents, by law, in a multitude of areas. Think about where car seat safety is going - we are becoming responsible for appropriate use in numerous vehicles that are used after children are signed out and off of our property. And if a crib is deemed unuseable, we must document how we destroyed it so that it cannot be used by someone else. This is going in a ridiculous direction.
While I do generally call if I don't hear from a family, I do not want to become legally required to do so. Not to mention that, as a business, if we sign a pledge like this, I worry (never used to, but do now) that that could be used against us if we actually had this situation occur with one of our families, and we had not reached the family by phone.
Plus, in the past, the families most likely to forget to tell me when they will be out are the least likely to pick up the phone when I call to see where they are. So, how many times am I supposed to put my kids who ARE HERE and ARE MY RESPONSIBILITY on hold, so that I can repeatedly call the family whose child is mot here?

At some point, child care providers will be held legally responsible for everything.
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SignMeUp 07:42 AM 07-09-2014
Sorry, on tablet and can't scroll.

I wanted to say that I think it is a good idea IN THEORY, and that I will do so when I can. But I won't sign a pledge.

Also, I first saw this pledge when it was sent by the CCR here, to all providers. Which definitely tells me the direction this is going, and it isn't a good one.
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Michelle 07:50 AM 07-09-2014
BC
I totally get it and agree with you that it is the parents responsibility
but what if this does happen to a child in your daycare?

What if a baby is late, you remember this thread, would you stand by your beliefs or call the parent?
I agree parents are too busy but just one phone call can save a precious babies life
I have always called for years and one time I called and a parent that worked graveyard had slept in and was suppose to sleep for just an hour and wake up to get the kids to school didn't wake up and the kids were all over the house alone and very young!
Not my responsibility but I love those kids and don't want to attend their funerals. I called and mom rushed home to wake him up (very good responsible family with just a crazy schedule )

So I will always call or insist that they call if they will be absent because I love my kiddos

Also, I noticed that this happens a lot with dads
I don't know the statistics but is this because women have maternal instincts?

I know this has happened with moms but it seems not as much as dads
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jokalima 07:50 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
So what happens if a child care provider don't call a no show... Then they can be smeared by the media, Dhs, and parents for dropping the ball?

I can see it now... "This child's life could have been spared if only the daycare provider had called to check in when the child didn't show up"

Then do you think that provider will ever get business again?
We shouldn't be obligated to do it. I did not share it because I believe we HAVE to do it. Just for those that have not thought about doing it maybe they will want to start. But no, I don't think we should be responsible for this, but if someone wants to help keep a child safe by doing so, then that is OK as well.
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MrsSteinel'sHouse 07:57 AM 07-09-2014
I also have an issue with being legally responsible to call. And now, in our area it is hands free phones only so most of my parents wouldn't be picking up if they are on the road. Can you imagine me calling their work the moment they are late? What if you don't reach them? Are you suppose to call the police? Please go look in the parking lot at______ to see if there is a child in the car? And who is going to be responsible when they go to the grocery store? or the movies?
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Sugar Magnolia 07:58 AM 07-09-2014
I just don't want to be the daycare provider that find themselves saying "I noticed Baby X wasn't here. I could have called to check. I didn't. Baby X is dead.and.30 seconds of my time could have saved a life."

I don't really have an issue if calling were mandated. I would draw the line at.accepting legal responsibility though. Only the parents should be held legally.responsible. I do think charges are warranted against parents who do this and a death occurs.
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Blackcat31 08:07 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Michelle:
BC
I totally get it and agree with you that it is the parents responsibility
but what if this does happen to a child in your daycare?
Like I said, this hits close to home.

Originally Posted by Michelle:
What if a baby is late, you remember this thread, would you stand by your beliefs or call the parent?
Yep. I would stand by my beliefs.

I'm tired of the media using people's feelings (in regards to small, helpless children) as guilt trips to deflect the attention from the person/people truly responsible for their care and well being.

The minute a child is involved, it seems people think it's everyone's issue or problem to solve.

While I agree it takes a village to raise a child, the PARENT needs to be the responsible party FIRST.
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jenboo 08:07 AM 07-09-2014
I do not have contracted hours. Families can drop off anytime before lunch. Usually if I dont hear from them by the time I start preparing lunch (1130) then ill send a quick text.

Yes, it is sad that children are being forgotten about in cars but I don't think it needs to be my responsibility. Parents need to parent.

I cant imagine having to babysit a parent when they have their own child on their own time. Am i going to have to start calling each night to make sure their child is being supervised in the bathtub? Or call to make sure they are using safe sleep practices??

I really do feel for the parents and families that this has happened to. It is such a tragedy. But i do not think that the responsibility needs to be put on daycare providers. we are already liable for enough.
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tehck_1013 08:18 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I don't really have an issue if calling were mandated. I would draw the line at.accepting legal responsibility though.

I do think charges are warranted against parents who do this and a death occurs.


this.
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Blackcat31 08:27 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I don't really have an issue if calling were mandated. I would draw the line at.accepting legal responsibility though. Only the parents should be held legally.responsible. I do think charges are warranted against parents who do this and a death occurs.
Sadly though there has never been separation of that though.

If you are mandated then you are responsible...kwim?


I see this being much like the bars and taverns that are sued constantly because they over-served an adult patron and that drunk patron has an accident on the way home.

I have never understood that concept.
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jenboo 08:36 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Sadly though there has never been separation of that though.

If you are mandated then you are responsible...kwim?


I see this being much like the bars and taverns that are sued constantly because they over-served an adult patron and that drunk patron has an accident on the way home.

I have never understood that concept.
totally agree!
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tehck_1013 08:39 AM 07-09-2014
I'd also like to know how parents can't hear their children. My kids are pretty good in the car but they are NOT silent. My son chatters on and on and on, how could I not remember to get him out? I'm at a loss. Are kids really that quiet?

I'd call if it had been a reasonable amount of time and if their arrival is usually predictable and on time... but I wouldn't call repeatedly. I'd also be miffed if it was mandated. Not because I think it's a hassle, because I would take the time if I felt it was necessary, but because mandating it for providers to call and check means the parents will rely on this and become even more lax and forgetful...
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nannyde 08:51 AM 07-09-2014
I don't want to be involved in this at all. I don't transport kids and I don't want to have any liability when the kid is with their parents.
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jenboo 09:00 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by tehck_1013:
I'd also like to know how parents can't hear their children. My kids are pretty good in the car but they are NOT silent. My son chatters on and on and on, how could I not remember to get him out? I'm at a loss. Are kids really that quiet?

I'd call if it had been a reasonable amount of time and if their arrival is usually predictable and on time... but I wouldn't call repeatedly. I'd also be miffed if it was mandated. Not because I think it's a hassle, because I would take the time if I felt it was necessary, but because mandating it for providers to call and check means the parents will rely on this and become even more lax and forgetful...
I think in most cases, the child falls asleep.
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Michelle 10:03 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I just don't want to be the daycare provider that find themselves saying "I noticed Baby X wasn't here. I could have called to check. I didn't. Baby X is dead.and.30 seconds of my time could have saved a life."

I don't really have an issue if calling were mandated. I would draw the line at.accepting legal responsibility though. Only the parents should be held legally.responsible. I do think charges are warranted against parents who do this and a death occurs.

I am the same way
I don't want to live the rest of my life with " what if's" or "I should have"
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Josiegirl 10:08 AM 07-09-2014
I simply cannot wrap my brain around the fact that children can be forgotten in a car. I was mindless as a young parent, trying to remember every single thing. I'd forget cupcakes on the roof of the car, a can of coke, or cup of coffee, I even stopped at a yard sale once and left my purchases on top of the car. Forget my child/ren????? No, they were always my priority. I find it all too sad that it happens so often.
And no way should it be our duty. While sure, it's a nice courtesy to call checking up on our dcparents, no way should that be part of our job description.
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JenNJ 10:12 AM 07-09-2014
How about instead of us taking on that responsibility -- a huge one -- parents take five seconds to remind themselves. All it takes is putting your left shoe in the back seat. You can't wander around with one shoe so chances are your feet on hot asphalt will remind you to get your kid out.
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Blackcat31 10:25 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by JenNJ:
How about instead of us taking on that responsibility -- a huge one -- parents take five seconds to remind themselves. All it takes is putting your left shoe in the back seat. You can't wander around with one shoe so chances are your feet on hot asphalt will remind you to get your kid out.
This kid invented something to help parents remember.

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/gadgets/...deaths-n151076
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TwinKristi 10:26 AM 07-09-2014
I call/text if someone who was supposed to be here isn't. I have had a dad who didn't call me and was a no show. I texted dad and no reply. I texted mom and she replied thank God but my heart was pounding when the text didn't show read and no reply. I could imagine them in a car accident or he left her in the car at work... My mind was going crazy with "what ifs" and I've always told myself and anyone I know that I WILL call if someone doesn't show up. Far too often you read about these parents who were supposed to take their child to daycare. I always wonder why didn't they just call!??!? That call could have saved the child's life.

I understand and agree with us not "taking responsibility" because I don't think that's right, we shouldn't be responsible for what parents do outside of our care aside from major neglect or abuse that we fail to report. I will always call and make contact if they don't show up and would go as far as contacting people on their emergency list and ultimately the police if I didn't get a response. That would really freak me out.

I read a story a few years back about a woman who left her son in the car, around 18-24mos I would say? She had done it once before but the provider called and she ran out in time but that was during summer I think but the death occurred during winter or vice versa. I think the provider called that time as well but it was too late. The fact that it happened twice to me showed neglect and I think she faced charges but don't know if she was sentenced or anything. It's been awhile.

The other recent story from last week about the 22 month old that they're pressing charges against is so tragic but I feel it was murder. I think it was all planned out and executed properly. So sad... I think the vast majority are accidents, but none the less, a life is lost due to parental neglect. I've never really "forgotten" my kids. I think when my youngest was small I took groceries in and went back to get my purse and realized I left him in the car or something but we're talking 2 mins. I didn't just forget he was there, but I got side tracked and it scared me! I was really worried about that for a long time. It's just so scary and seems to happen often
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Cradle2crayons 10:28 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Like I said, this hits close to home.



Yep. I would stand by my beliefs.

I'm tired of the media using people's feelings (in regards to small, helpless children) as guilt trips to deflect the attention from the person/people truly responsible for their care and well being.

The minute a child is involved, it seems people think it's everyone's issue or problem to solve.

While I agree it takes a village to raise a child, the PARENT needs to be the responsible party FIRST.
Exactly my point. I require all parents to text when they are on the way to drop off and on the way to pick up. For different reasons though.

If a child is supposed to be here and don't text to say they are on the way, then I would text them asking if they were on the way. Again for different reasons.

However, it's not my responsibility to care for parents. I would not support mandating it because as you say, it would imply RESPONSIBILITY on my part if something happened.
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Sugar Magnolia 11:40 AM 07-09-2014
I can't see how a daycare could be sued if a PARENT leaves the child in the car and walks away.

I also can't see how the daycare would be held responsible if they called both parents and got no reply, especially if they left a voicemail or text.

In regards to the current story out of Georgia......I would not want to be the teacher that didn't call. I'm sure that center hasn't had any new enrollments. I'm not saying at all the daycare was responsible....the guilt must be unbearable.

My cpr trainer once told me that the #1 reason people who are trained in cpr don't attempt it in a life threatening situation is because they are afraid of being sued. Does fear of litigation really trump morality now?
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sally 11:43 AM 07-09-2014
Thankfully, Iowa has law that if you injure someone while performing cpr they cannot sue you.
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SignMeUp 11:48 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I can't see how a daycare could be sued if a PARENT leaves the child in the car and walks away.
Me either. But I also can't see how I am supposed to be responsible for how or if a child is properly buckled in their car seat once they are signed out and off my property.


Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
In regards to the current story out of Georgia......I would not want to be the teacher that didn't call. I'm sure that center hasn't had any new enrollments. I'm not saying at all the daycare was responsible....the guilt must be unbearable.
Me either. And I will always try to call. But I have not always been able to reach a parent when I have done this.

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
My cpr trainer once told me that the #1 reason people who are trained in cpr don't attempt it in a life threatening situation is because they are afraid of being sued. Does fear of litigation really trump morality now?
No, I don't think so. Not for me at least. I will always attempt to reach the parent. But I may not be able to make repeated calls, and MY first responsibility is to the children IN my care.
I will not, though, sign, online or otherwise, anything that states that I will do X-Y-Z in that circumstance, because that signature may be the thing that holds me legally liable as a business operator.
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Annalee 11:50 AM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by sally:
Thankfully, Iowa has law that if you injure someone while performing cpr they cannot sue you.
Same here, it is the Good Samaritan Law.
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Meeko 12:48 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
While I think this is a nice idea, I have issues with this type of thing.

The website states: (blue phrases)

Contrary to public perception, the majority of child hot car deaths happen as a result of a responsible, loving parent unintentionally forgetting his/her precious cargo in the backseat

I have issues with the words "responsible" and "unintentional"

They are contradictory in that context. I get that parents are busy and preoccupied and stressed and are often multi-tasking but seriously....STOP!! and put your child first.

Someone's MOST precious cargo should not be "forgotten" and if that is seriously the situation, then a campaign about parenting priorities should be done instead.

Put the cell phone down, make extra time for a Starbucks run AFTER your child is at daycare.

Child vehicular heatstroke was practically unheard of prior to placing kids in the backseat

I do NOT believe this to be true at all. I think the reason child vehicular heatstroke was unheard of is because there weren't so many distractions causing a parent to forget about their babies..... Cell phones, DVD players, GPS devices, frazzled, over worked parents living on VERY little sleep, trying to do way too much at the expense of their child.

Blaming the "backseat" is ridiculous and just another ploy to pass the buck about personal responsibilities.


I apologize to anyone my comments offend but this subject hits close to home and is a sore spot with me.
It is also a subject that I am tired of hearing about. Atleast in regards to how the parents bear no responsibility in this and efforts to promote eliminating this problem by getting child care providers and others to do more.

It is a tragedy pure and simple but NOT one that isn't preventable and as a child care provider I am angry that this is being passed off onto us as another thing WE should be responsible for.

I think people would be better off educating parents on how to NOT forget their child. Educate parents about how coffee runs, cell phones, Facebook and every other distraction out there CAN NOT come before your parental responsibilities to your child.

NOT trying to start a debate and apologies to the OP as I don't mean to lead the thread away from your point. I am done and walking away.
I just needed to get that out there and say it.
I agree with every single word of this. It breaks my heart that a child died. But ultimately it is the PARENTS responsibility.

The story explaining the events of the day written by the mother is heart-breaking up until the point that she tries to subtly cast a shadow on the daycare for not calling. It was NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. She lost her child, which is terrible and tragic. But, sad as it is, the blame only lies with ONE person.

Would the child had survived if the daycare had called? Maybe. But maybe a child would be saved from drowning in the bathtub if providers call the parents each night to check on them.

Maybe a child won't get electrocuted if we call daily and ask the parents if they have covers on their outlets at all times.

Maybe a child won't get abducted if we call all weekend and make sure parents are watching their kids....etc.etc.etc.

I tend children. I do not want to tend their parents too.
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sahm1225 04:11 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Meeko:
I agree with every single word of this. It breaks my heart that a child died. But ultimately it is the PARENTS responsibility.

The story explaining the events of the day written by the mother is heart-breaking up until the point that she tries to subtly cast a shadow on the daycare for not calling. It was NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. She lost her child, which is terrible and tragic. But, sad as it is, the blame only lies with ONE person.

Would the child had survived if the daycare had called? Maybe. But maybe a child would be saved from drowning in the bathtub if providers call the parents each night to check on them.

Maybe a child won't get electrocuted if we call daily and ask the parents if they have covers on their outlets at all times.

Maybe a child won't get abducted if we call all weekend and make sure parents are watching their kids....etc.etc.etc.

I tend children. I do not want to tend their parents too.

I feel sadness for the family, but I don't think the responsibility is ours. What if while we are making that phone call to reach the parents, amount child gets hurt? What if the family has a rotating schedule and we forget?

I wouldn't want that responsibility.

That being said, I have a family w an infant and 5 year old that get dropped off at 7:30-7:45. One time Dcd was supposed to drop off and didn't until almost 9:45. I sent a text at 8:30 to follow up on the drop off time. Dcm was angry at Dcd for not sending a text saying they were running late (and now I get a text if it's more than 15min past the time). I've trained all my parents to text if more than 15 min variance.
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nannyde 05:26 PM 07-09-2014
I couldn't remember to do it. I am thinking of too many different things and I am not a clock watcher. Having part time kids would require me to keep track of who was arriving. I don't think about who has an appointment or was planning to be gone on a specific day.

Nope. Doesn't have a thing to do with child care. It's not any different than any time the parents are caring for their kids. They are responsible.

Parents can set up a daily check system with each other or family that check in daily to make sure the parent dropped off. They can devise a system within their own people.
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nannyde 05:39 PM 07-09-2014
I just read the RayRay pledge and the story.

I totally disagree with their solution. I think they need to focus on what Dad did and what Mom didn't do.

Why didn't that mother call the dad to make sure he took his kid to daycare?

It's time to develop a phone ap that is gps connected to the parents phone and when the gps doesn't sense.the phone arriving at the daycare by x time it sends a text to the parents phone.
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Unregistered 05:46 PM 07-09-2014
I agree with Blackcat. Maybe if parents/guardians erred held accountable these "distracted" parents wouldn't forget so often.

As to this incident, 1st they woke up late, were rushing, what was it 20-30 minutes until out the door? That child had just woken up, no way she would have fallen asleep with the excitement of the morning. Unless the drive was maybe 2 hours long! 2nd mom said dad would NORMALLY turn left in other words it wasn't out of his routine to do so, which is everybodies 1st excuse. 3rd it was such a special day, baby was looking exceptionally cute, I know I would have called dad to ask "how was drop off, did she show off her cute dress, did you take a quick pic?"

What is it with out of sight out of mind?! I don't buy it but am always reminded of "there but by the grace of God"
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tehck_1013 05:56 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It's time to develop a phone ap that is gps connected to the parents phone and when the gps doesn't sense.the phone arriving at the daycare by x time it sends a text to the parents phone.
oooooooo tech savvy. I like that.
Get on it Nannyde!

Just kidding. I couldn't make it either.
Whoever does could get a dollar for every purchase though.........
and all the childrens' lives saved? Priceless.
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nannyde 06:26 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by tehck_1013:
oooooooo tech savvy. I like that.
Get on it Nannyde!

Just kidding. I couldn't make it either.
Whoever does could get a dollar for every purchase though.........
and all the childrens' lives saved? Priceless.
Time to get our leader Michael on this one. Now that would be a Daycare.com presents ap that would be great but... it would have to have a strong user agreement with it.

Centers and homes could sell the ap as a fundraiser.
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Daycaregranny 06:46 PM 07-09-2014
I might be the oddball here but I think my parents would be quit put off by me babysitting THEM in their private lives. My "duties" start when they arrive and end when they leave for the day. Would I feel horrible if one of my families had something like this happen? YES! It would be devastating! But would I be responsible? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! These children are theirs not mine. The children when not here are their responsibility.
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nannyde 06:51 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I can't see how a daycare could be sued if a PARENT leaves the child in the car and walks away.

I also can't see how the daycare would be held responsible if they called both parents and got no reply, especially if they left a voicemail or text.

In regards to the current story out of Georgia......I would not want to be the teacher that didn't call. I'm sure that center hasn't had any new enrollments. I'm not saying at all the daycare was responsible....the guilt must be unbearable.

My cpr trainer once told me that the #1 reason people who are trained in cpr don't attempt it in a life threatening situation is because they are afraid of being sued. Does fear of litigation really trump morality now?
Morality? What do you mean? (I truly don't get what you mean. Not debating... at all)
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SignMeUp 06:52 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It's time to develop a phone ap that is gps connected to the parents phone and when the gps doesn't sense.the phone arriving at the daycare by x time it sends a text to the parents phone.
Now THAT there is genius

It should be required. Like Parenting 101
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nannyde 06:54 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Now THAT there is genius

It should be required. Like Parenting 101
;-) I hope Michael sees this thread. You never know. He might know people who make apps.
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SignMeUp 06:58 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
;-) I hope Michael sees this thread. You never know. He might know people who make apps.
Wouldn't it be awesome? Child Safety from the brain of a Child Care Provider!
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nannyde 07:05 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Wouldn't it be awesome? Child Safety from the brain of a Child Care Provider!
From a child care provider who can barely figure out how to turn on a computer.

Poor Michael has to post my blogs because I'm so inept at computer that I can't figure out WordPress.
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jokalima 07:10 PM 07-09-2014
For me it's not extra work to keep track of hours. Most of my families arrive at the same time each day so when I see that they are 20 minutes late I start to wonder. I don't call, I text because usually that's how we communicate and they answer quickly. I don't take from the other kids while doing this, it takes me longer to put dishes away after breakfast and it takes me longer to go potty. I don't feel responsible, it is not my job to do it, but it is in my heart.
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SignMeUp 07:13 PM 07-09-2014
Oh well Computer skills aren't everything
For twenty years I have had an idea for how the state could revamp their forms. Providers could enroll each child online and the state would be able to identify fraud (there has been some major child care fraud here and it boggles my mind that no one noticed it), or contact parents in case of serious illness or license suspension or revocation. They would know where every child in the state was in care.
Providers could generate their own emergency cards, complete with photos (like mine), and automatically populate the forms required for license renewal. Instead of the 1950s handwritten system we currently use
And they could easily make enrollment lists (like mine) with every method of contact for every parent of each child in care, to be used for fire or other evacuation.

But no one seems interested. I couldn't make it myself. I just have the ideas for what's needed and useful. I don't see it happening before they chase us out because I don't think the state would spend the money.
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SignMeUp 07:17 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by jokalima:
For me it's not extra work to keep track of hours. Most of my families arrive at the same time each day so when I see that they are 20 minutes late I start to wonder. I don't call, I text because usually that's how we communicate and they answer quickly. I don't take from the other kids while doing this, it takes me longer to put dishes away after breakfast and it takes me longer to go potty. I don't feel responsible, it is not my job to do it, but it is in my heart.
Jokalima, even though I commented against signing the pledge, I know your heart is in the right place for the children! And I do call, have called, and will call. I just worry that it will become one more thing that is placed upon us as a requirement, and in my state, that leads to fines, suspension and even prosecution.
But I truly don't mean to take away from bringing it to the attention of more people - that is so important.
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nannyde 07:28 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by jokalima:
For me it's not extra work to keep track of hours. Most of my families arrive at the same time each day so when I see that they are 20 minutes late I start to wonder. I don't call, I text because usually that's how we communicate and they answer quickly. I don't take from the other kids while doing this, it takes me longer to put dishes away after breakfast and it takes me longer to go potty. I don't feel responsible, it is not my job to do it, but it is in my heart.
I don't have a problem with providers doing it. I have a problem with any legislation that would require it. It would be a HUGE burden to centers. They would have to have dedicated staff for it. It's not the same as a school where it is the law they must attend and absences causes penalties for truancy.

Child care is voluntary. They can come and go as they please. They can arrive and depart many times in a day. They can have rotating or drop in schedules.

Keeping track of who told them they would be gone would in and of itself be a clerical nightmare. The staff changes daily and throughout the day.

I personally don't care if they don't come or come late unless it's payday. I don't pay attention and don't want to. I've had kids absent and not realized it for many hours.

I couldn't do it. It would be too much.
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SignMeUp 07:52 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:

I couldn't do it. It would be too much.
You could attach a fee to it
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nannyde 08:09 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
You could attach a fee to it
He he he

That's money I do not want. I know I.couldn't manage it.
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Michael 08:13 PM 07-09-2014
I haven't read the thread but Nannyde PM'd me about it and asked it a phone app would work. Here are my thoughts:

It wouldn't be so much an app but a device that is a detector. I see something that you plug into your cigarette lighter, car USB port or a smart phone. It would need to monitor both the temperature of the car and the carbon dioxide levels since rising CO2 levels would indicate someone is in the car. The device would also need phone capabilities to call parents if the inside CO2 and temperature reaches "above average" levels and after a higher level thresholds, such as the temperature of the car reaches 90 degrees and has CO2 concentrations higher than 10,000 ppm, it would trigger a call to 911.

I think it would be a effective device but costly which would probably deter people from buy them en mass. I think the idea would be more effective if car makers installed them in ALL automobiles.
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jokalima 08:44 PM 07-09-2014
alarm.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ugH6eVMckJ8.

I remember reading this article in a puertorrican paper not so long ago.
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Michael 09:05 PM 07-09-2014
Originally Posted by jokalima:
alarm.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ugH6eVMckJ8.

I remember reading this article in a Puerto Rican paper not so long ago.
Doesn't look like they got the funding. www.Torio.com does not resolve.
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Unregistered 06:07 AM 07-10-2014
I checked out the link and I read the story and it is heartbreaking. However, I refuse to sign something that allows parents who make mistakes to pass the blame along to me because I didn't call them when they didn't drop off their child at daycare. It's in my contract that it's the parent's job to call me if their child won't be coming for the day. It's not fair to providers to ask them to be responsible for making sure kids get to daycare. That's a heavy burden for providers to have weighing on them. We all keep them safe when they are in our care and that's our job. Moms and dads are supposed to keep them safe for the rest of the time.

I don't know about everyone else but I'm not comfortable playing a role in anything that shifts blame to providers when something happens to kids while they're in their parents care. I don't mean any offense by my post and I really do feel sad for the family of Ray Ray. I just think that parents have to be accountable when things like that happen, not the providers. It would be different if the child were in the provider's care but this was not the case.
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Angelsj 06:17 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Morality? What do you mean? (I truly don't get what you mean. Not debating... at all)
I think she may be discussing more "doing what is right." And for the record, if I know someone is supposed to be here, and they are not, I call.
However, I do NOT want that to become my responsibility. Not because I am afraid of being sued, but because my business runs a little differently. Sometimes wires get crossed and kids show up here unannounced, or don't show on days they are supposed to be here.
Many of my families are lower income, so their phones may not be up to standard, or even turned on at that time. I don't care how often this happens, the responsibility MUST remain with the parent.

I was actually thinking about this the other day in regards to having someone patrol parking lots, looking for kids or animals, and mentally came to the same conclusion. Businesses, patrol officers, even parking meter monitors could keep an eye out, but dedicating someone to do this is taking resources away from the jobs they should be performing. Your child must be your first thought, not your last, and not someone else's.
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hope 06:46 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by Michael:
I haven't read the thread but Nannyde PM'd me about it and asked it a phone app would work. Here are my thoughts:

It wouldn't be so much an app but a device that is a detector. I see something that you plug into your cigarette lighter, car USB port or a smart phone. It would need to monitor both the temperature of the car and the carbon dioxide levels since rising CO2 levels would indicate someone is in the car. The device would also need phone capabilities to call parents if the inside CO2 and temperature reaches "above average" levels and after a higher level thresholds, such as the temperature of the car reaches 90 degrees and has CO2 concentrations higher than 10,000 ppm, it would trigger a call to 911.

I think it would be a effective device but costly which would probably deter people from buy them en mass. I think the idea would be more effective if car makers installed them in ALL automobiles.
I don't understand technology well but my husband's phone will beep and tell him he didn't go to work when he takes the day off. We always laugh about it....like his phone is scolding him. He is a very scheduled type of man. Leaves the house same time every day and takes the same route so somehow his phone knows this. He had a Samsung galaxy note. I have the same phone but my work is at home. Hehe.
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nannyde 06:52 AM 07-10-2014
It's easy to come up with solutions that have someone else take responsibility. Their story includes only three sentences about what the Dad did wrong. The rest of the story was about their loving tender care of the child. There's zero insight to HOW he could forget his kid.

I would respect their campaign if they targeted parents and ask them to pledge to not do whatever the Dad did to take his mind off of his kid. That would take serious introspection and admission of failure. He needs to work with some behavioral specialist and figure out what brought him to this mindset.

Putting your energy into someone else being accountable is easy and on the surface seems simple.

I fear these campaigns are going to land grieving parents in front of law makers who can enact laws putting us in the chain of accountability. You think it's hard to get insured now? Once this becomes known to insurers it is going to be WAY harder and more expensive to get insured. A dead kid is going to be the highest pay out.

We keep dumping more and more into the responsibility of child care providers we are going to end up running a business we can't insure.
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CraftyMom 06:56 AM 07-10-2014
I didn't read through the comments.

I just wanted to say that I personally can not understand how someone can forget they have their child with them?? My kids are with me the majority of the time, I can not see forgetting they are with me.

That being said I can see a problem being the fact that parents spend very little time with their kids, the ones in daycare spend all day in daycare. Parents don't take their kids to the store with them bc it's easier to leave them at daycare and go alone. So they are used to being childless and when the do have their child with them they forget because it's more common for them to NOT have their child.

Not and excuse, just the only way for me to wrap my head around forgetting your child is with you!
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Unregistered 06:56 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It's easy to come up with solutions that have someone else take responsibility. Their story includes only three sentences about what the Dad did wrong. The rest of the story was about their loving tender care of the child. There's zero insight to HOW he could forget his kid.

I would respect their campaign if they targeted parents and ask them to pledge to not do whatever the Dad did to take his mind off of his kid. That would take serious introspection and admission of failure. He needs to work with some behavioral specialist and figure out what brought him to this mindset.

Putting your energy into someone else being accountable is easy and on the surface seems simple.

I fear these campaigns are going to land grieving parents in front of law makers who can enact laws putting us in the chain of accountability. You think it's hard to get insured now? Once this becomes known to insurers it is going to be WAY harder and more expensive to get insured. A dead kid is going to be the highest pay out.

We keep dumping more and more into the responsibility of child care providers we are going to end up running a business we can't insure.
I agree wholeheartedly!
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jokalima 07:18 AM 07-10-2014
I didn't see it like they were blaming the provider or putting the responsibility on them. I just saw it as reaching out so we could help them keep them safe. I didn't feel they were blaming the center. I have a 3 yo and I can't understand how something like that can happen, cause I keep him close at all times. But I don't know what other families are going through, the stress of their lives, I just don't know and can't judge them. Maybe I didn't understood the story well or the pledge, but I honestly didn't feel, while reading it, that I will become responsible for their children when they are out of my care.
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nannyde 07:59 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by jokalima:
I didn't see it like they were blaming the provider or putting the responsibility on them. I just saw it as reaching out so we could help them keep them safe. I didn't feel they were blaming the center. I have a 3 yo and I can't understand how something like that can happen, cause I keep him close at all times. But I don't know what other families are going through, the stress of their lives, I just don't know and can't judge them. Maybe I didn't understood the story well or the pledge, but I honestly didn't feel, while reading it, that I will become responsible for their children when they are out of my care.
What solution did they offer other than someone else becoming involved?
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Michelle 08:33 AM 07-10-2014
In addition to alerting the parent that a child is in the car
it can also alert someone that a potential attacker is in the car too by the c02 levels
this would be very helpful and profitable for anyone that makes this app
I would buy it for sure!

I can imagine the commercials right.. young woman leaving a gym, walking to a parking garage, looks at her phone and see's the c02 level too high in her car and calls police!
This would be awesome!
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Unregistered 08:36 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I fear these campaigns are going to land grieving parents in front of law makers who can enact laws putting us in the chain of accountability. You think it's hard to get insured now? Once this becomes known to insurers it is going to be WAY harder and more expensive to get insured. A dead kid is going to be the highest pay out.

We keep dumping more and more into the responsibility of child care providers we are going to end up running a business we can't insure.
Example: a baby died in a defective crib in a hotel, so they regulated cribs for daycare.
And, mind you, NOT for foster care, at least not in my state.
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Annalee 08:51 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It's easy to come up with solutions that have someone else take responsibility. Their story includes only three sentences about what the Dad did wrong. The rest of the story was about their loving tender care of the child. There's zero insight to HOW he could forget his kid.

I would respect their campaign if they targeted parents and ask them to pledge to not do whatever the Dad did to take his mind off of his kid. That would take serious introspection and admission of failure. He needs to work with some behavioral specialist and figure out what brought him to this mindset.

Putting your energy into someone else being accountable is easy and on the surface seems simple.

I fear these campaigns are going to land grieving parents in front of law makers who can enact laws putting us in the chain of accountability. You think it's hard to get insured now? Once this becomes known to insurers it is going to be WAY harder and more expensive to get insured. A dead kid is going to be the highest pay out.

We keep dumping more and more into the responsibility of child care providers we are going to end up running a business we can't insure.
The blame-game......always someone else's fault!!!!! You are exactly right......accountability/responsibility for the dad in question, not saying to be heartless with him, but, in reality, I just can't fathom leaving my own child in a car and forgetting them long enough for them to DIE!!!!!! BLOWS MY MIND!!!!!!
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nannyde 10:14 AM 07-10-2014
We have to start prosecuting the parents. Child protective needs to be involved in any children they have and any born to them. If a child care provider made the same mistake with the same kid they would be charged and found guilty.

It's time.
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Josiegirl 10:25 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
We have to start prosecuting the parents. Child protective needs to be involved in any children they have and any born to them. If a child care provider made the same mistake with the same kid they would be charged and found guilty.

It's time.
When I first read this, I thought wow, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And I still don't understand how it can happen as often as it does. But then I thought about it and I believe most of these are careless thoughtless selfish tragic accidents. And I also believe these parents and families will suffer enough for the rest of their lives.
There was a dad near here, 1st day of turkey hunting, accidentally killed his son who was hunting with him. While it's a completely different scenario, it was still a careless tragic act which cost his child his life. But that dad(and family) have been grief-stricken since it happened.
I don't know what the answer is to making parents stop and think about their child/ren first. I just don't know. But they've got to.
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craftymissbeth 11:11 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
When I first read this, I thought wow, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And I still don't understand how it can happen as often as it does. But then I thought about it and I believe most of these are careless thoughtless selfish tragic accidents. And I also believe these parents and families will suffer enough for the rest of their lives.
There was a dad near here, 1st day of turkey hunting, accidentally killed his son who was hunting with him. While it's a completely different scenario, it was still a careless tragic act which cost his child his life. But that dad(and family) have been grief-stricken since it happened.
I don't know what the answer is to making parents stop and think about their child/ren first. I just don't know. But they've got to.
Leaving your child in a hot car to die, accidentally or not, should at minimum be child negligence and involuntary manslaughter. I understand that parents make mistakes all the time, but a mistake that causes your child to die should be punishable by law. This may seem coldhearted, but they can grieve just fine in prison.

ETA: Your example of the dad shooting his child was an accident... but forgetting your child in a car is negligent, imo.
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MyAngels 11:24 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It's easy to come up with solutions that have someone else take responsibility. Their story includes only three sentences about what the Dad did wrong. The rest of the story was about their loving tender care of the child. There's zero insight to HOW he could forget his kid.

I would respect their campaign if they targeted parents and ask them to pledge to not do whatever the Dad did to take his mind off of his kid. That would take serious introspection and admission of failure. He needs to work with some behavioral specialist and figure out what brought him to this mindset.

Putting your energy into someone else being accountable is easy and on the surface seems simple.

I fear these campaigns are going to land grieving parents in front of law makers who can enact laws putting us in the chain of accountability. You think it's hard to get insured now? Once this becomes known to insurers it is going to be WAY harder and more expensive to get insured. A dead kid is going to be the highest pay out.

We keep dumping more and more into the responsibility of child care providers we are going to end up running a business we can't insure.


Plus, there are devices on the market that are supposed to be able to help prevent this. PARENTS just need to be responsible enough to purchase one if they can't be RESPONSIBLE enough to remember their child in the car seat.
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hope 11:39 AM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
We have to start prosecuting the parents. Child protective needs to be involved in any children they have and any born to them. If a child care provider made the same mistake with the same kid they would be charged and found guilty.

It's time.
You are so right! If a provider or bus driver or aunt/uncle left their child in the car to die I would imagine the parents would be asking for them to be prosecuted. They would want them to be held responsible for the death of their child. I don't think they would accept the "I forgot" excuse.
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nannyde 12:30 PM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
You are so right! If a provider or bus driver or aunt/uncle left their child in the car to die I would imagine the parents would be asking for them to be prosecuted. They would want them to be held responsible for the death of their child. I don't think they would accept the "I forgot" excuse.
They have suffered enough is only for parents. I think we need to hold them accountable because every parent would know they will loose their kid and their freedom. That may be much better to keep parents thinking about their kid than a pledge.

With cell phones you can set an alarm to go off every day to remind you that your kid has to be at daycare. Parents, grandparents, aunties, uncles, and friends can set up a double check texting with each other. There are ways to do this where the parents develop a safety net. Having child care do it is ok if it is voluntary. I would imagine insurance companies won't go for any agreement in the daycare policies. If they do and one kid dies they WILL get sued.

If you agree either verbally or in writing that you will do this and don't do it and a kid dies you WILL be sued.
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MOM OF 4 01:19 PM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by blackcat31:
while i think this is a nice idea, i have issues with this type of thing.

The website states: (blue phrases)

contrary to public perception, the majority of child hot car deaths happen as a result of a responsible, loving parent unintentionally forgetting his/her precious cargo in the backseat

i have issues with the words "responsible" and "unintentional"

they are contradictory in that context. I get that parents are busy and preoccupied and stressed and are often multi-tasking but seriously....stop!! And put your child first.

Someone's most precious cargo should not be "forgotten" and if that is seriously the situation, then a campaign about parenting priorities should be done instead.

Put the cell phone down, make extra time for a starbucks run after your child is at daycare.

child vehicular heatstroke was practically unheard of prior to placing kids in the backseat

i do not believe this to be true at all. I think the reason child vehicular heatstroke was unheard of is because there weren't so many distractions causing a parent to forget about their babies..... Cell phones, dvd players, gps devices, frazzled, over worked parents living on very little sleep, trying to do way too much at the expense of their child.

Blaming the "backseat" is ridiculous and just another ploy to pass the buck about personal responsibilities.


I apologize to anyone my comments offend but this subject hits close to home and is a sore spot with me.
It is also a subject that i am tired of hearing about. Atleast in regards to how the parents bear no responsibility in this and efforts to promote eliminating this problem by getting child care providers and others to do more.

It is a tragedy pure and simple but not one that isn't preventable and as a child care provider i am angry that this is being passed off onto us as another thing we should be responsible for.

I think people would be better off educating parents on how to not forget their child. Educate parents about how coffee runs, cell phones, facebook and every other distraction out there can not come before your parental responsibilities to your child.

Not trying to start a debate and apologies to the op as i don't mean to lead the thread away from your point. I am done and walking away.
I just needed to get that out there and say it.
i agree 1000000000000000%
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jokalima 04:26 PM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
What solution did they offer other than someone else becoming involved?

Right. But I still don't see it as putting the responsability on us just reaching out for help and support.
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Meeko 06:03 PM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by jokalima:
Right. But I still don't see it as putting the responsability on us just reaching out for help and support.
It's wanting others to share the responsibility. But a child is ultimately the parents responsibility. A daycare should not be a part of family life or responsible for any part of family life at any time the child is not in care.

The last thing I want is a grief-stricken mother screaming "This is all your fault...why didn't you call me" at me.

If you sign something like this......it's exactly what will happen. It's SO painful for a parent to admit that THEY caused the death of their child. It's much easier to shift the blame and ease the guilt if it is at all possible. This makes it possible.
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TwinKristi 07:15 PM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by Meeko:
It's wanting others to share the responsibility. But a child is ultimately the parents responsibility. A daycare should not be a part of family life or responsible for any part of family life at any time the child is not in care.

The last thing I want is a grief-stricken mother screaming "This is all your fault...why didn't you call me" at me.

If you sign something like this......it's exactly what will happen. It's SO painful for a parent to admit that THEY caused the death of their child. It's much easier to shift the blame and ease the guilt if it is at all possible. This makes it possible.
I started a post and never finished it but this is what I was going to say. Mentally, they just can't function thinking THEY are responsible for the worst thing that could ever happen to a parent. It's a self-defense mechanism. It's not correct or right, but it's just what many people's instincts are. Find blame anywhere but yourself. It's sad...
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NightOwl 08:05 PM 07-10-2014
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I can't see how a daycare could be sued if a PARENT leaves the child in the car and walks away.

I also can't see how the daycare would be held responsible if they called both parents and got no reply, especially if they left a voicemail or text.

In regards to the current story out of Georgia......I would not want to be the teacher that didn't call. I'm sure that center hasn't had any new enrollments. I'm not saying at all the daycare was responsible....the guilt must be unbearable.

My cpr trainer once told me that the #1 reason people who are trained in cpr don't attempt it in a life threatening situation is because they are afraid of being sued. Does fear of litigation really trump morality now?
I also would call for that ^^^ reason. Not because I was required to, or because I wanted to protect myself legally, but because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't call and something happened to one of my babies.
I've done cpr once and didn't think twice. I jumped straight in there and got it done. No, he did not live. But I was able to keep him going long enough for the first responders to get there and get his heart going again. Lawsuit be damned, nothing would have stopped me from trying to save that baby.
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Blackcat31 06:30 AM 07-11-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I also would call for that ^^^ reason. Not because I was required to, or because I wanted to protect myself legally, but because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't call and something happened to one of my babies.
My daycare children are not MY babies.

Anther poster asked me (earlier in this thread) if I could live with myself if something happened to a child and I didn't call and I responded no.

I refuse to live my life feeling guilty for choices other people make.

Also enduring personal tragedy teaches you really fast what to accept responsibility for and what not to.

"Should have, could have, would have" will eat you up inside faster than anything and I simply REFUSE to accept that kind of responsibility.

This world is full of tragedy and senseless accidents but I certainly will not borrow heartache that does not belong to me.

Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I've done cpr once and didn't think twice. I jumped straight in there and got it done. No, he did not live. But I was able to keep him going long enough for the first responders to get there and get his heart going again. Lawsuit be damned, nothing would have stopped me from trying to save that baby.
When the child is present IN your care, the rules change big time.
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NightOwl 06:56 AM 07-11-2014
I call them "my babies", even the school age kids, as an affectionate term. The parents are also "my parents". I've done this for years. And I'm really glad for you that you can refuse to take any responsibility, which is the right thing. You would NOT be responsible, not even a little bit. But yes, the "could've, should've, would've" would eat me up without a doubt. So instead of refusing the responsibility (I wish I could, but I just can't), I send the text.
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SilverSabre25 06:58 AM 07-11-2014
I also text a quick "Is [kid] coming today?" when I start feeling annoyed that they aren't here yet. 4/5 times they pull up within minutes after I send that text. The 5th time parent forgot to tell me they aren't coming.

But I do it for *MY* reasons, which are mainly "how much breakfast do I have to cook and can we leave on our walk?"
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MOM OF 4 07:10 AM 07-11-2014
So, I read somewhere that someone wanted to implement technology such as a seat sensor, or wearable bracelet to ensure parents do not forget their children. In theory, I know that the deaths of children touches hearts, however, can you imagine the company making this item and as with ANY man-made device, a failure happens, a child dies and guess who gets sued???

I don't think people should have to babysit adults.

Yes, I called as much as I could, but sometimes, I'd be busy with the kids in my physical custody! So I couldn't do it right away. I won't be held liable for a parent's neglectful actions.

Next thing you know, we'll ALL (DCP or not) be liable for EVERYTHING that parents do wrong.

What's next?
I go to the park with my kiddos, someone else's child falls off a swing and breaks their arm. The parent says "Well, I'm suing because SHE was right there and didn't catch the kid, this could have been prevent if SHE had caught him since she was right there!?"

No.
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Blackcat31 07:26 AM 07-11-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I call them "my babies", even the school age kids, as an affectionate term. The parents are also "my parents". I've done this for years. And I'm really glad for you that you can refuse to take any responsibility, which is the right thing. You would NOT be responsible, not even a little bit. But yes, the "could've, should've, would've" would eat me up without a doubt. So instead of refusing the responsibility (I wish I could, but I just can't), I send the text.
Sorry...I didn't mean that to come out wrong. I guess I say "my" too alot in reference to MY daycare kids and MY daycare parents..

I was just making a point of assigning ownership to this since it IS a sticking point in this subject.
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NightOwl 07:55 AM 07-11-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Sorry...I didn't mean that to come out wrong. I guess I say "my" too alot in reference to MY daycare kids and MY daycare parents..

I was just making a point of assigning ownership to this since it IS a sticking point in this subject.

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nanglgrl 02:12 PM 07-11-2014
If you think that something like this can never happen to you or you think that these parents should be prosecuted I urge you to read this entire article.
Of course there are the few cases where neglect was involved but the majority of these accidents happen to loved, well taken care if children. I've never forgotten one of my children in the car but I have thought I had my child with me and freaked out when I went to get them from an empty car seat, I've went to run an errand before and completely forgot the items I needed to complete the errand back at home, I've driven to places that I travel to regularly and have been unable to remember the actual trip and I've went into a room only to forget why. Most if not all of us have had something similiar happen. You can say that forgetting a baby doesn't compare to forgetting why you went into a room, forgetting documents at home or forgetting how you arrived at a destination and that it's the complete opposite of thinking you have your child with you when you don't but that's just not how the brain works. This problem isn't getting better because so many people think it could never happen to them. Next time you hear someone say that maybe you could correct them and say it could happen to you and then maybe you will potentially save a child. http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl...a52_story.html
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Blackcat31 02:27 PM 07-11-2014
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
If you think that something like this can never happen to you or you think that these parents should be prosecuted I urge you to read this entire article.
Of course there are the few cases where neglect was involved but the majority of these accidents happen to loved, well taken care if children. I've never forgotten one of my children in the car but I have thought I had my child with me and freaked out when I went to get them from an empty car seat, I've went to run an errand before and completely forgot the items I needed to complete the errand back at home, I've driven to places that I travel to regularly and have been unable to remember the actual trip and I've went into a room only to forget why. Most if not all of us have had something similiar happen. You can say that forgetting a baby doesn't compare to forgetting why you went into a room, forgetting documents at home or forgetting how you arrived at a destination and that it's the complete opposite of thinking you have your child with you when you don't but that's just not how the brain works. This problem isn't getting better because so many people think it could never happen to them. Next time you hear someone say that maybe you could correct them and say it could happen to you and then maybe you will potentially save a child. http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl...a52_story.html
No one is debating that parents can't have momentary lapses in memory or judgment.

However, INVOLUNTARY accidents are still accidents and forgetting your child in a situation that causes death SHOULD be a crime. No matter which way you slice it.

I know that comes across as mean or cold hearted or whatever you want to call it to some but child hot car deaths were virtually unheard of before the many distractions that society so willingly accepts as a valid excuse for this type of thing.

I do agree that parents are distracted and can do many of the things you listed as examples but at WHAT point do we (as a society) make this sort of thing a punishable crime so that it is taken MORE seriously and not allowed to happen any more.

Families denying their child medical care due to religious reasons (which used to be a protected right) are being prosecuted every day in the deaths of their children so why shouldn't parents living such a hectic life that they forget their child not be prosecuted too?

These children are relying soley on their parent to love and protect them from the dangers of the world and although the parent that is guilty of this lives in their own emotional prison due to their actions, it is still a horrible crime committed against a minor child who had zero control over the situation.

I find it sad that we as parents and caregivers find more empathy and acceptance for the parent's actions than we do anger at the senseless death of a child who had their whole life ahead of them.
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nanglgrl 03:17 PM 07-11-2014
I respect your opinion but disagree. These accidents were unheard up before we started putting children in the back seat in rear facing car seats. Devices have been invented that are cheap and work but can't be developed because studies have shown they won't sell. They won't sell because people don't think it can happen to them and prosecuting parents who are already living their worst nightmare isn't going to change that because when people read about these parents who are prosecuted they say "I can't believe they did that, I would never forget my child" and the cycle continues. A lot of parents have been prosecuted and most have been found not guilty by a jury. Prosecuting parents won't change anything because of the majority thinking as you do. The only thing that can really be changed and prevent these deaths is automatic alarms in car seats, cars or an app, a support system if people who call to make sure the child is where it should be. It would need to be be mandated though because this could never happen to a good parent.
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NightOwl 03:35 PM 07-11-2014
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
If you think that something like this can never happen to you or you think that these parents should be prosecuted I urge you to read this entire article.
Of course there are the few cases where neglect was involved but the majority of these accidents happen to loved, well taken care if children. I've never forgotten one of my children in the car but I have thought I had my child with me and freaked out when I went to get them from an empty car seat, I've went to run an errand before and completely forgot the items I needed to complete the errand back at home, I've driven to places that I travel to regularly and have been unable to remember the actual trip and I've went into a room only to forget why. Most if not all of us have had something similiar happen. You can say that forgetting a baby doesn't compare to forgetting why you went into a room, forgetting documents at home or forgetting how you arrived at a destination and that it's the complete opposite of thinking you have your child with you when you don't but that's just not how the brain works. This problem isn't getting better because so many people think it could never happen to them. Next time you hear someone say that maybe you could correct them and say it could happen to you and then maybe you will potentially save a child. http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl...a52_story.html
Wow.... This is just heart wrenching to read.
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Josiegirl 04:27 PM 07-11-2014
Nanglgrl, that article is heart-breaking. And I believe most of us have that mindset it could or would NEVER happen to us, which is why so many of us feel adamantly it's a crime. I, personally, just cannot bring myself to call it that. I still believe it's a tragic sad devastating mistake. But I'm also talking about the cases where the person honestly forgot. I'm not talking about the ones who leave their child in the vehicle, to run into the store for an hour, or visit the local bar and leave the kids in the car. That happened here, in the middle of winter, and could have resulted in a horrible ending. Somebody called the cops, who rescued the kids(there were 2) and tracked down the dad having 'a couple drinks'.

I still liken it to the example of the loving dad who accidentally shot his son while hunting. I've always wondered how someone could just shoot at anything, if they were careful, watchful, obeying all the safety rules of hunting. It was stupid, senseless, the guy went to court, it was found to be a complete accident. But the dad will forever be locked in his own jail, tortured every day far worse than any lock-up system could do. He didn't start out his day looking to kill somebody, especially his own son.

Neither did any of these parents mentioned in the article. Punishment for what they did? They've got their own I believe. It's something the majority of us thankfully will never understand because we've 'never been there' and don't ever see it happening to us.

From reading the article, evidently NASA had created something that would work but no one was interested? Why can't they make it mandatory in all new cars and have it installed in used cars? Give people an insurance discount for having it installed? Offer rebates of some kind? Do *something* to make it more attractive, especially to all those who say 'it could never happen to me'.
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Josiegirl 04:41 PM 07-11-2014
Jokalima,
I just want to say thank you for posting this topic. I think it's a good discussion to have, to share our opinions, to open people's eyes. I have to admit I started off thinking I would never be one of 'those' parents that it could happen to. But then....all it would take is one giant stupid senseless tragic mistake. And it might have been my child. Or a child of someone I know.

No, it isn't our responsibility to ensure the safety of our dcks outside of our homes or centers. I remember calling one of my dcms this past winter; she has to travel an hour to get here and it was a terribly snowy crappy day out. She was supposed to be here at 8:00 so I called when she hadn't gotten here by 9:30, to see if she was still coming. She was waiting to get pulled out of a snowbank, thankfully not far from home. What does a 2 minute call take out of our day?
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nannyde 05:28 PM 07-11-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Jokalima,
I just want to say thank you for posting this topic. I think it's a good discussion to have, to share our opinions, to open people's eyes. I have to admit I started off thinking I would never be one of 'those' parents that it could happen to. But then....all it would take is one giant stupid senseless tragic mistake. And it might have been my child. Or a child of someone I know.

No, it isn't our responsibility to ensure the safety of our dcks outside of our homes or centers. I remember calling one of my dcms this past winter; she has to travel an hour to get here and it was a terribly snowy crappy day out. She was supposed to be here at 8:00 so I called when she hadn't gotten here by 9:30, to see if she was still coming. She was waiting to get pulled out of a snowbank, thankfully not far from home. What does a 2 minute call take out of our day?
It's not a two minute call. It's paying attention to times and then starting the process. It's deciding what to do if they don't answer. It's remembering when they told you three weeks ago they had a dentist appointment. It's waking up a mom who is sleeping in after being up all night with a puking kid with a high fever and listening to her go off on you that you just woke up the kid.

It's centers with hundreds of kids trying to figure out who is scheduled, who is missing, who called in, what staff took attendance and did she get their names right....

It's the lawsuit from the insurer's who pay hundreds of thousands in medical care for the brain damaged kids that were pulled out right before death and survived. It's paying a huge insurance bill after the first insurance company has to fork over millions to one provider who said she would but didn't and the kid died.
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Josiegirl 05:45 PM 07-11-2014
I won't get into it with you Nannyde, I respect a lot of your wisdom. But for many of us, it would be a 2 minute phone call(all the added steps of a center doesn't usually apply to a registered home such as mine). Even if it's because they're at the dentist and we forgot, or they were up all night with a puking child, I'd bet they'd appreciate a quick call with caring intentions.

As I said, I don't believe it should be our responsibility but if taking an extra step helps save even 1 life......
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nannyde 06:03 PM 07-11-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I won't get into it with you Nannyde, I respect a lot of your wisdom. But for many of us, it would be a 2 minute phone call(all the added steps of a center doesn't usually apply to a registered home such as mine). Even if it's because they're at the dentist and we forgot, or they were up all night with a puking child, I'd bet they'd appreciate a quick call with caring intentions.

As I said, I don't believe it should be our responsibility but if taking an extra step helps save even 1 life......
I don't have a problem with daycares doing it. I just don't want it to ever be required as a minimum standard.
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NightOwl 07:25 PM 07-11-2014
No, I would never be Ok for it to be a requirement. I do it for MYSELF. I am the sort of person who takes responsibility for everyone, even when it's not my responsibility at all. I wish I could change that, but I can't. I'm hard wired that way. So the guilt would literally eat me alive even if there's nothing to be guilty about (I know, I'm nuts). So I text. If I KNOW they were supposed to be here and they're not, I text. When they leave in the evening, no, I don't concern myself with if they're being supervised during their baths and where they went after leaving here, but there's always going to be a little twinge of worry in me when they don't show up when expected. So I relieve that twinge by sending a quick text for ME.
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jokalima 04:05 PM 07-12-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Jokalima,
I just want to say thank you for posting this topic. I think it's a good discussion to have, to share our opinions, to open people's eyes. I have to admit I started off thinking I would never be one of 'those' parents that it could happen to. But then....all it would take is one giant stupid senseless tragic mistake. And it might have been my child. Or a child of someone I know.

No, it isn't our responsibility to ensure the safety of our dcks outside of our homes or centers. I remember calling one of my dcms this past winter; she has to travel an hour to get here and it was a terribly snowy crappy day out. She was supposed to be here at 8:00 so I called when she hadn't gotten here by 9:30, to see if she was still coming. She was waiting to get pulled out of a snowbank, thankfully not far from home. What does a 2 minute call take out of our day?

Honestly, I never thought it was going to get this kind of response, just shared it like I said before, to create awareness. It's good to know though, the points of view of others, sometimes we can learn from them and yes, agree to disagree.

Blackcat
Originally Posted by :
Also enduring personal tragedy teaches you really fast what to accept responsibility for and what not to.
I see it differently. For me, enduring personal tragedy has taught me that once a tragedy happens there is no way to turn back in time and change it and how terrible it is to know that, to live that. My family went through something really hard that changed all of our lives. At the begining I just could not escape the thought of me not being able to escape from that new reality. I was faced to live with something that I did not choose to live with and I could not escape it. With time I learned to live with that, but I was depressed for a long time and every single day I prayed and wished that some kind of miracle happened where I would be able to change my reality. Those were for sure the worst years of my life and I just can't imagine someone else going through something similar or even worse like loosing a child. So while I am very aware that it is not part of my responsabilities, I also know that I don't want no one I know go through those same emotions I went through.

I guess we all react to tragedy differently and learn from our own personal experiences in different ways.
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originalkat 03:01 PM 07-13-2014
Hmmm. Interesting. I have always called because I want to know if I should expect the kid or not (for my own selfish reasons). I dont take babies or toddlers so it is highly unlikely that this would happen with a preschooler, but still...I call/text cuz I want to know and plan my day accordingly.

It should never be mandated...but possibly saving a child's life. Yea, I think it is worth it no matter whose responsibility it is.

I like the App idea. Thats a good one!
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TwinKristi 04:51 PM 07-13-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
No, I would never be Ok for it to be a requirement. I do it for MYSELF. I am the sort of person who takes responsibility for everyone, even when it's not my responsibility at all. I wish I could change that, but I can't. I'm hard wired that way. So the guilt would literally eat me alive even if there's nothing to be guilty about (I know, I'm nuts). So I text. If I KNOW they were supposed to be here and they're not, I text. When they leave in the evening, no, I don't concern myself with if they're being supervised during their baths and where they went after leaving here, but there's always going to be a little twinge of worry in me when they don't show up when expected. So I relieve that twinge by sending a quick text for ME.
This is me too, exactly!
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Hunni Bee 04:46 AM 07-17-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I simply cannot wrap my brain around the fact that children can be forgotten in a car. I was mindless as a young parent, trying to remember every single thing. I'd forget cupcakes on the roof of the car, a can of coke, or cup of coffee, I even stopped at a yard sale once and left my purchases on top of the car. Forget my child/ren????? No, they were always my priority. I find it all too sad that it happens so often.
And no way should it be our duty. While sure, it's a nice courtesy to call checking up on our dcparents, no way should that be part of our job description.


I agree. I have never not been aware that my child was with me, and I have split custody and my mother has her one day a week plus daycare. My baby is never far from my mind.

BUT I ALWAYS put her bag up in the front next to my purse. Also I walk around the car past her seat when I get out. This things take zero time and if parents get in the habit, it'll be be second nature.

I agree, it is totally the parents responbility.
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coolconfidentme 05:30 AM 07-17-2014
Originally Posted by hope:
You are so right! If a provider or bus driver or aunt/uncle left their child in the car to die I would imagine the parents would be asking for them to be prosecuted. They would want them to be held responsible for the death of their child. I don't think they would accept the "I forgot" excuse.
They ARE being prosecuted. Here is a case of a provider being charge for leaving kids in the car with the AC on: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...265385771.html
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