We need to start a petition and write letters to Des Moines. Iowa providers are now required to have a copper wired land line coming in to their house. The rule was: "The home shall have a non-pay, working telephone with emergency numbers posted for police, fire, ambulance, and the poison information center. A cell phone shall not be used as the primary phone". Until recently this was interpreted as meaning you just needed to have a phone that did not depend on wireless signals now it means you have to have a copper wired land line. I just found out that they are now going to be checking the number you put down in your registration forms and they will be able to tell if you are not using a copper wired land line. If they don't do it now they will be doing it when you re-register and your registration will be denied or revoked unless you change.
If you use MEDIACOM, VONAGE, MAGIC JACK or any other phone provider that comes in through your cable or internet and not on a copper line this EFFECTS YOU! You may not even know that your line uses one of these VoIP services but chances are they do unless you use Centurylink (which is not available in all areas).
In Black Hawk county the DHS workers didn't even know this until recently and were telling providers it was fine to use these services. Some areas don't even get Centurylink and have to use Mediacom but it does not matter.
This rule needs changed but our only option is to join together. Please join with me, I welcome ideas!

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I'm torn on this issue. We have Mediacom and the service goes out periodically so then I rely on our cell phone. The Mediacom service goes out more frequently than the regular phone service and is out for a longer period of time.

If it is the only phone service available then I don't think it is fair.

K

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I had Centurylink and it was out all of the time. I'm not the only provider this happened to and Centurylink is the only one besides A T & T that is available here. My Centurylink was out for 8 months and we had no idea because we never used it. There was water in the line which I guess is a common problem because they are so old.
A T & T plans to use fiber optic as do most phone companies sometime in the future and fiber optic is not acceptable. Sadly, I know at least one provider that does not have the option of either of these companies because they are not available. In her case she will have to have her registration revoked and appeal it. Even if this doesn't effect you now it may in the future as the other phone companies evolve.

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Do you have Mediacom for your "landline" or another service provider?

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Mediacom is our landline provider. It goes out for no reason on beautifully sunny days.

K

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So you would have to switch to another provider. My Centurylink did the same thing. I don't think any provider is 100$ infallible these days. Century links lines are old and weathered because of our climate, Mediacom's cable is just as unreliable as it's phone...now if Cedar Falls Utilities started offering phone I would sign up because they are a great provider but I don't see that happening any time soon.
http://www.change.org/petitions/jeff...-code-110-5-1#

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We don't have Mediacom cable so I don't know what that is like. We have their phone and internet. Like I said, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I know they want providers to always be available by phone but like you said, regular phone service isn't always reliable.

I'm legally unlicensed so I'm not sure it will be a problem for me. I only have one family with 2 kids and we text back and forth during the day if we need to get in touch.

I understand that DHS just wants to make sure that everyone is following one rule about phones. But... I'm not sure what they are proposing will be the answer.

K

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Im not in your state, but if they made that a rule here, I would have to go illegal, because what they are asking for no longer exists here! We only have one landline company to choose from, and they use fiber optics, I think.

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This is interesting. I can imagine this will happen more and more. The new rule in Iowa may not even be feasible for long due to changing technologies.

K

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I'm in Mich and in 2006ish they made us put in landlines for daycare. Ticced me off because it was an extra cost I just couldn't afford and we NEVER used it. On top of that it had previously been a fax line at a local school so we would get calls in at 4 or 5 am. I then shut off the ringer after a couple of months and would dust it on occasion.

A couple years later they discontinued the landline requirement.

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If some of you from other states wouldn't mind please go to my petition and put that your states don't require it. Anything helps!

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I'm in CA and as long as we have a phone in our home it doesn't matter what you have. You can have fiber optic but in way it's stupid not to allow cell phones as primary lines because as long as the phone in the home rings it's all that matters to licensing. I use google voice which transfers my calls to my cell phone and to my home phone so licensing is fine with it since my home phone rings but we never use that number really, I answer my home phone but it's mostly my calls being forwarded to that phone. We use Ooma which connects and works with your internet for my home line. We pay only the phone tax and such and the phone goes out when our internet is down but I keep that line to apease licensing.

I was thinking about it and why they would require something in your state that is so obviously outdated and expensive such as copper. I'm thinking some big wigs have some deal with the copper company in your state.

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Our Utah requirements are just "a working phone".

I have my cell phone and I use Netttalk for my business line. At $29 for a whole YEAR of unlimited calling...it's a great deal! When I moved my daycare from one city to another, I just unplugged at one place and plugged in at the new one...no transferring etc.

Utah used to require a "hard-wired" phone too. But they changed it several years ago due to complaints (so keep at it!!) Now they just require a working phone.

If your licensing dept won't budge.....look into getting the cheapest possible service. At one time, it was possible to get very limited service here. Only incoming calls. Outgoing calls were 911 only. Maybe something like that is still available.

Also, if I understand it correctly....anything that is absolutely required by your state in order to do business is 100% tax deductible??? Maybe Tom will have that info?

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My husband laughed when I told him of your "copper" wired landline requirement. He said that it might be a copper wire that connects to your house but unless you live in the dark ages the wires that it connects to at the road are fiber optic or wireless.

Chances are if there is an emergency you will grab the wireless cell phone on your person NOT run to a hardwired landline. Geesh!

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My husband said the same thing your husband said

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Thank you for the support everyone. The funny thing is our code which states:
110.5(1)
Health and safety. Conditions in the home shall be safe, sanitary, and free of hazards.
a.
The home shall have a non-pay, working telephone with emergency numbers posted for police, fire, ambulance, and the poison information center. A cell phone shall not be used as the primary phone. The number for each child’s parent, for a responsible person who can be reached when the parent cannot, and for the child’s physician shall be readily accessible by the telephone.

As you can see the code states nothing about not being able to use a home phone that relies on fiber optics, internet or cable service it only says it can't be a pay phone or cell phone. I put a call in to our union and also called the Administrative rules department of our government and they are going to look up and see if there have been any changes to the code and send me exactly what it says.
The cheapest hard wired phone in our area is about $50 a month after taxes and fees. I used that service for years but like most of you my phone sat with the ringer off collecting dust. I didn't even know that it wasn't working for months until I had given my home phone number out for a computer repair and was wondering why after months they hadn't called to tell me my computer was fixed. Then I was told when they called all they got was static, come to find out there was water in the line which is a common occurrence so I switched to Magic Jack. My only other option was Mediacom which was about $70 a month.
Our local DHS inspector and CCRR actually told providers they could use Magic Jack, Mediacom, etc. for years and they are just finding out that someone in Des Moines is saying it's not allowed. I'm thinking someone is having a power trip because even our local DHS and CCRR is confused and can't find anywhere this is stated. It's either that our someone has a deal with the pone company.
100% business would be tax deductible except when it comes to the first phone line. I can subtract the business use of my cell though which I do.

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Why would it have to be copper?

I love my landline! It stays charged constently, not hard to misplace, it doesn't cost me as much as a cell phone.

Husband hates it wants to get rid of it-constant conversation every month.

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I'm not sure why it has to be copper. I think because traditionally that's was what is considered to be a landline. To my understanding, if you have anything other than copper it would go through your internet or cable service and those lines are considered (by our state at least) to be less reliable than the copper line. My internet is underground and is fiber optic but it doesn't matter, they consider an above ground phone line that comes to your home on a copper line to be more reliable. The stance is that cable and internet go out in a power outage but copper wired landlines don't. I get the point but the problems are that most people use wireless home phones that also don't work in a power outage and that now, with changing technology, above ground aged phone lines are just not reliable especially when compared to below ground fiber optic.
Maybe it's your area but my cell phone is much cheaper than any of the places that offer landlines around here even if I did a bundle package that included my internet. Our town has it's own utility company that provides power and internet...they are really cheap, the most reliable but do not offer phone service. A landline phone would cost me half of what my families 3 cell phones with unlimited data/texting cost and we never get close to using our 1500 minutes we share because any minutes me use while calling another cell phone don't count. We use the cell phones way more than we use the landline which really has become just a prop that occasionally needs dusted.

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I think my landline runs around $25 a month even with a bundle package is much, much cheaper then paying for a phone plan.

We do staight talk and its still around $100-$125 for 4 phones! I think its one of those things that need to go with downsizing if it costing you more for the "convenience". I'm not really a cell phone person but do have one. I use it because all my friends can't talk much on their cell phones becaue it costs them their minutes-

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Ugh...First my DHS worker said Magic Jack was fine...and then I heard it wasn't and got Mediacom...I wish we could just use cell phones!

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I was just inspected yesterday and he said nothing about copper wire land lines.

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Yeah, now Mediacom isn't acceptable either. In my area that means Centurylink or AT&T...both pricey!In some areas that leaves them with no options!
I was told by a DHS worker who does not agree with this rule that they were just told about it a few months ago and she assumed it was because there was a change but so far I've not been able to find the change and think it's just someone getting too big for their britches. I stated that it would only effect new providers or providers that needed to change their numbers but she said no, the state will now be checking everyone's phone numbers by calling the number and they will be able to tell who the service provider is. She doesn't know if they will do this when they re-register or if they are just going to start calling current provider numbers.
In my case my license will be revoked on November 5th. I will then file an appeal which will take about 3 months (I will still be considered registered in the mean time). A judge will call and the case will be presented over the phone. My plan is to just use the code as it is written as it does not say these other providers are not allowed. I should win unless the code has been rewritten in the last few months. I was told that this is happening to other providers as well.

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On a side note...where in Iowa are you all from? I am in Bettendorf now, but moving to DSM this summer.

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Cedar Falls here. There's an Iowa daycare providers page on Facebook called The Break Room. It's nice to have a group of providers dealing with the same rules, regulations and such.

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Found it! At least I think it's the right one...doesn't specifically say Iowa though.

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I don't think it says Iowa but that's what it is. There's about 50 members aprox. I don't run that group but I am a member.

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This isn't a new regulation. It's been like this since I registered in 1993.

The union tried to negotiate this with the DHS two years ago and they would not consider it.

I doubt if they will change it any time soon. We recently had a death in a home child care where the provider had a non working cell phone and had to abandon the children in her care and fetch her neighbor to call 911.

http://urbandale.patch.com/articles/...ild-care-death

When Bright's babysitter, Kimberly Kimmer, found that the child was not breathing shortly after 4 Friday afternoon, she ran to the home of a neighbor, Lynne VanWyk, and asked her to call 911, said Peterson. Apparently, Kimmer's phone was not working.

They want a phone that is not dependent on battery or electricity I believe. I think it will change eventually because the option of a land line is becoming less available over time.

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Your inspector may not have known about it yet. The legislative code does not state anything about having to have a copper wired landline, it only states that we have to have a phone that is not a pay phone or a cell phone. The inspectors for our area were telling people it was fine to have Magic Jack, Mediacom, etc. because those things meet the standards set forth by the code. They only found out a couple of months ago that providers are not allowed to use home phones that go through fiber optic lines and they didn't know they were enforcing it until I called. They are helping in my quest to figure this mess out. The code says nothing about it having to be a copper landline that is not run through cable, internet or fiber optics but someone In our government is interpreting that it does and that's why we need to fight.

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Do you know where it says the home landline can't run through fiber optic cable? I called the State Law Library and asked for a copy of the rule and any revisions and they sent me this:

110.5(1)
Health and safety. Conditions in the home shall be safe, sanitary, and free of hazards.
a.
The home shall have a non-pay, working telephone with emergency numbers posted for police, fire, ambulance, and the poison information center. A cell phone shall not be used as the primary phone. The number for each child’s parent, for a responsible person who can be reached when the parent cannot, and for the child’s physician shall be readily accessible by the telephone.

I already knew this and am not fighting it. What I'm fighting is that they are now saying it has to be on copper cable and can not run through your internet or cable and that's not what the law says. Maybe you have more insight on the matter?

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The internet phone doesn't have a "line" as far as I know. It's just your voice is converted into a packet of internet data and carried thru the internet.

The confusion over this has been raging for many years in all of Iowa. I just chirped in because I wanted you to know that the regs have been the same for longer than I've been in business. Often the DHS makes regulations that are up to interpretation. They have the right to decide the definition of telephone. They are the ones charged with interpreting the Iowa Code when it comes to child care. The code says telephone and they get to decide what that is.

The only way to change it is to have it go thru the appeal process. They redid their regs not too long ago and really only do that every four/five years... sometimes more. It will be a long while before they redo regs.

In order to do the appeal I think you would have to have them pull your registration. There has to be an actual ACTION for it to be heard.. not just a citation. The action would be revocation of the registration. Also, they can drag out the appeal as long as they darn well please. They have certain time frames that it must be heard BUT there is no one overseeing them and enforcing time frames so be prepared to have it go on for a bit. I would also GET IN WRITING that you can remain registered during the appeal process. The phone is a core safety regulation and they may pull your registration completely. Remember too that this will go on your permanent record which may be available online. It may comes up only as a revocation without explanation.

It's risky.

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Thanks. Yes, that's what I'm doing right now. I will loose my registration on November 5th and then I will appeal it. If I loose I'm fine with that. I would only have to let go of one child to meet the requirements for an unregistered provider and I have one child that uses CCA so I'm fine with the outcome. It's kind of a bummer because I will not be Childnet Registered, QRS certified anymore and I was just looking into the TEACH program to finish my BA but I don't have a copper landline coming into my house anymore.
The internet doesn't have a copper line but it does use fiber optic line which in my area is much more reliable than copper. Actually, most copper line meets fiber optic cable at some point, usually not far from the house. I will let everyone know how it goes!

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2013 July 1st is to be the last day a provider can be unregistered in iowa so you don't have the option to drop to unregistered for too many more months.

If you are on the food program you have to be registered.

Also, they could report this to the Child protective if they want to get froggy. You need to understand that the regulations for unregistered are IDENTICAL to registered. There's no difference between the two with the exception of capacity (max of five with three being under two) and whether there is a signed agreement for unnanounced entry by inspector workers. If you take state kids you sign that agreement ... registered or not.

If you are unregistered the worksheet they use for inspection is IDENTICAL. The reg for the telephone is identical. It will not matter to them whether you are registered or not. They could shut you down because your are breaking the same rule as an unregistered... see????

So you really SHOULD consider whether you want the risk of this or not. They MAY not realize what they CAN do... depends on if they want to shut this down or not. Once they go up the chain of inspectors and supervisors they may realize they can actually stop your business. It's risky.

And... the biggie would be what they put on your file on the internet. They do not have to explain why they revoked you. That will be on there for eternity so consider that too.

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I was told just yesterday by the DHS that although they did want to make all providers registered it didn't get Legislative approval so I wasn't worried about that. Has something else happened in regards to this?
I don't mind loosing the food program. I'm on the lower tier so it's not much and all of my parents have said they will provide snacks. If I were not registered I would not take CCA kids, it wouldn't be worth my time.
As far as the rules being the same, there are actually a lot of things that registered providers have to do that unregistered don't but you are correct about the phone line. I was just informed that unregistered providers are required to have a non-pay working phone that is not a cell phone although I can't find it anywhere in the code. Seems like there are a few things we are being made to do that are not in the code.
If child protective services got involved I would laugh as I have nothing to hide. If it goes on my permanent record I'm fine with that. I already planned on making my record available on my webpage along with a description of any infractions and what happened. If a parent turned me down after seeing it they wouldn't be the right fit for me anyway.

I'm going to keep fighting and chugging along as I am not one to just sit idly by. I love the USA, I love that we have laws and that we have a voice. I am a rule follower but I will not do something that makes no sense and is not a rule without speaking up and seeking change just because somebody with a suit says so. In this country we take things to vote, and so far it looks like this issue was just something someone decided.
On the other hand if this was a rule I would follow it but I would still be fighting for change.
I read about problems with California regulation interpretation on here all of the time. I would go crazy if I lived there. I like to know exactly what I'm supposed to be doing so there are no surprises. This was a surprise to CCRR, myself, local DHS and AFSCME. If I get my license revoked for speaking up so be it, if I am unable to do childcare I will find another path. I have four children and like most of you I have helped teach and raise hundreds more. I'm their example, I want them to speak up and to try and right wrongs. I don't want them to follow I want them to lead.

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http://www.change.org/petitions/jeff...-code-110-5-1#

Please sign, this is not a stupid problem for us. I urge you to help us fight this being required because it is not part of the code we are guided by. If they do this and providers just bow down and do what they are told whats going to stop them next time they want us to do something that hasn't been voted on? No going on field trips? No transporting children? Only being able to have non-cordless phones? Leaving our doors unlocked for surprise visits? I could go on and on. My biggest problem is that this is not code and yet they are revoking and denying registration because of it.

If you have any problems with the link please let me know!

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You know you hang out with kids too much when you have an accomplishment and the first thing that comes to mind is the Dora The Explorer theme song. We did it, we did it, we did it hooray!

This is not just a win for providers in Iowa but for all of us. It shows that if we stand together and throw a big fit about an injustice we can change things!

Nannyde pointed the problem out to a friend who used to work for AFSCME. Her friend contacted me and had me send her the letter DHS sent me. She passed it along to the Iowa Childcare Advisory Council at their meeting yesterday and the rest is history.

They noticed my letter from DHS wasn't even signed. I guess no one was willing to take responsibility for telling me to do something that was not part of Iowa code.

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