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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Terminated Family is Hurt/Angry
dani987 07:28 PM 07-25-2014
Hi, Everyone! I'm new here so please bear with me if I post in the wrong place or dont use acronyms where I should.
5.5 month old DCK screams most of the day. I don't mean cries--she screams. Sometimes it starts if I look from her to another baby. Most times, there is no apparent reason. She'll be smiling and seem happy, then just starts screaming. It is very stressful for the other babies who were happy for the most part but now cry a lot of the time too. When I have spoken to DCM about it, she acts shocked but did let it slip one time that DCK does the same thing with DCD when DCM takes a shower or tries to do anything besides holding her. They are also a difficult family to deal with--want an hour and a half window for drop-off and pick-up, asked me not to make personal appointments that require me to leave at pick-up time without checking with them first (?!), just little things like that constantly. They have been with me for 2.5 months and things just continue to get worse. I've been thinking about terminating for a couple of weeks and yesterday decided not to let it go another day. I sugar-coated it with a basic "She doesn't seem to be adjusting to the environment that I provide and may be happier elsewhere but I'll be happy to have her in my care for 2 weeks while you look for other care". DCM didn't really say anything but I could tell she was mad. Shortly after, I got a long voicemail from DCD then a long text saying that they were totally blind-sided, 2 weeks isnt long enough, could I take her until the end of August, this is a really bad time for me to put them through this, I should know how to deal with a crying baby, could they get a refund... then it was her turn. She sent me a message saying that she would look for care right away since she didnt want her child somewhere that she wasnt wanted. Between them, I got about 4 sad messages from her and 6 angry texts, voicemails and phone calls from him. I was feeling horrible but his behavior made me decide to give short responses and refuse to engage. I did give them a letter as well, effective August 8. They are paid through next week and he left me a message saying that they may or may not use "their last week". When I messaged telling him it doesnt work that way and that if they decided to remove her early, payment for the final week would be due upon drop-off next week, he left me a message saying "good luck getting any more money from us". I really don't care about getting more money from them. I just dont want to deal with the hostile DCD at this point. I haven't responded since he said that but my worry is that he is the type to show up and try to drop her off after all of that. I'm emotional about this too so was hoping for some level-headed suggestions and advice.
Thanks in advance.
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cheerfuldom 07:53 PM 07-25-2014
Honestly I would just refund whatever you have to and term immediately. I would let them know that you no longer wish to work with them at all after their recent behavior. Make sure you have something in writing, send refund via certified mail, and return any remaining items she left there......anything small. people here have posted about parents wanting pacifiers, mismatched socks and other super random stuff. If you are licensed, call your licensing agency and give them a heads up because these parents sound like the kind to file a complaint.
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MarinaVanessa 09:42 PM 07-25-2014
Ditto as above. I wouldn't take them back for even one more day. I would send an email or text and let them know that they were not welcome to come back again.

"I was looking out for the well being of your baby who I don't believe is adjusting well. I was willing to give you 2 weeks to find other arrangements, which is typical for family child care. After your previous consistent hostile texts emails and voicemails I have decided that it is in everyone's best interest to terminate our agreement effective immediately. I will send a refund check for the following week of care along with all of your child's belongings via certified mail. There is no need to call me. Do not come to my home. All future communication will only be done in writing."
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dani987 10:48 PM 07-25-2014
Thank you, Cheerfuldom and MV for excellent suggestions. I am feeling so wiped out and depressed from that barrage that I was questioning whether I was being fair and what I could have done differently.
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Laurel 04:46 AM 07-26-2014
I agree with what everyone above said.

Besides that, it is really unreasonable of her to say that you should know how to deal with a crying baby. Does she not realize that when a baby cries all day it affects the other children? I've had plenty of times where a child is just fussy and others 'copy' the behavior. It is even kind of funny sometimes because one will cry and another will fake cry to imitate it and they all start! It is not fair to the other children in your care to hear crying all day. It is stressful for everyone. She might need a nanny at her house.

I just recently retired but what I always did was not to have any policy for leaving in my contract. A parent could leave anytime they wanted but I 'requested' notice. I didn't have a thing in my contract about terminating. If I would have wanted to terminate someone I would have given them enough time to find someone else but I had nothing in writing requiring me to. I figured that if either party wanted to end it then just end it. I'd rather eat the loss of income until I found someone else than deal with having people like you describe for another two weeks. The money isn't worth it to me.
Know what I mean?

Don't take it personally (although I know that is hard). A screaming baby like that needs specialized care like a nanny could provide. It is too much to expect of group care.

Laurel
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lovemykidstoo 05:26 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
Ditto as above. I wouldn't take them back for even one more day. I would send an email or text and let them know that they were not welcome to come back again.

"I was looking out for the well being of your baby who I don't believe is adjusting well. I was willing to give you 2 weeks to find other arrangements, which is typical for family child care. After your previous consistent hostile texts emails and voicemails I have decided that it is in everyone's best interest to terminate our agreement effective immediately. I will send a refund check for the following week of care along with all of your child's belongings via certified mail. There is no need to call me. Do not come to my home. All future communication will only be done in writing."
I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with not only a screaming baby, but now screaming adults. Ridiculous. I would definately send this above and then not respond at all. No matter what. They are behaving horribly. I had to term like that once, but the mother acknowledged that the baby did it at home too. She actually said that she was surprised I kept her that long. She actually brought me a present the next day as a goodbye gift. You can't tell me that baby doesn't scream at home. Of course unless they have her straddled on them all day. Good luck!!
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nannyde 05:42 AM 07-26-2014
Breakin up is hard to do.

I do break ups differently. I tell them I won't accept money from them from this day forward and they can bring the child for free for as long as it takes to find care. That makes them furious and they leave right away and turn me into the DHS.

Works for me.

I am going to add a new service in my consulting business. You can hire me to write your term letter and break up with your daycare parent. The provider can tell the parent that all communication about the term goes to the consultant and my phone number will appear on the term letter.

I will run $25 break up specials at least four times a year.
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Heidi 05:45 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Breakin up is hard to do.

I do break ups differently. I tell them I won't accept money from them from this day forward and they can bring the child for free for as long as it takes to find care. That makes them furious and they leave right away and turn me into the DHS.

Works for me.

I am going to add a new service in my consulting business. You can hire me to write your term letter and break up with your daycare parent. The provider can tell the parent that all communication about the term goes to the consultant and my phone number will appear on the term letter.

I will run $25 break up specials at least four times a year.

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lovemykidstoo 06:18 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Breakin up is hard to do.

I do break ups differently. I tell them I won't accept money from them from this day forward and they can bring the child for free for as long as it takes to find care. That makes them furious and they leave right away and turn me into the DHS.

Works for me.

I am going to add a new service in my consulting business. You can hire me to write your term letter and break up with your daycare parent. The provider can tell the parent that all communication about the term goes to the consultant and my phone number will appear on the term letter.

I will run $25 break up specials at least four times a year.
You are hilarous! But, why woudl the bolded part make them mad? Do I just not have enough coffee in me? LOL
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nannyde 06:20 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
You are hilarous! But, why woudl the bolded part make them mad? Do I just not have enough coffee in me? LOL
They can't be the boss of free.
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nannyde 06:25 AM 07-26-2014
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ght=inspection
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melilley 06:29 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
They can't be the boss of free.
Ah ha, that's brilliant!
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lovemykidstoo 06:48 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
They can't be the boss of free.
ahhh got ya hahaha
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Josiegirl 07:08 AM 07-26-2014
Wow, they've got a lot of nerve! Dealing with a screaming baby is so much more bearable when there are 2 adults playing tag team and no other kids. Group care is entirely different. I know it's easy to say yet difficult to do but cut the ties and be done with them emotionally too. Sometimes that's the part that takes the longest. We tend to beat ourselves up with the 'what ifs' and 'should haves'. Don't do that.
You've been professional right along and know what the right thing to do is. Don't let them make you second guess yourself.
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NightOwl 07:46 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by dani987:
Thank you, Cheerfuldom and MV for excellent suggestions. I am feeling so wiped out and depressed from that barrage that I was questioning whether I was being fair and what I could have done differently.
That's what entitled people do. What?! You won't care for my screaming snowflake?? You won't won't allow the other babies to be upset by my screaming snowflake?? WHY NOT? It's not convenient for me for you to look out for other people's children too!! You must not be doing it right. My screaming snowflake should be able to scream constantly. You're doing something wrong.
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MOM OF 4 08:31 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by dani987:
Hi, Everyone! I'm new here so please bear with me if I post in the wrong place or dont use acronyms where I should.
5.5 month old DCK screams most of the day. I don't mean cries--she screams. Sometimes it starts if I look from her to another baby. Most times, there is no apparent reason. She'll be smiling and seem happy, then just starts screaming. It is very stressful for the other babies who were happy for the most part but now cry a lot of the time too. When I have spoken to DCM about it, she acts shocked but did let it slip one time that DCK does the same thing with DCD when DCM takes a shower or tries to do anything besides holding her. They are also a difficult family to deal with--want an hour and a half window for drop-off and pick-up, asked me not to make personal appointments that require me to leave at pick-up time without checking with them first (?!), just little things like that constantly. They have been with me for 2.5 months and things just continue to get worse. I've been thinking about terminating for a couple of weeks and yesterday decided not to let it go another day. I sugar-coated it with a basic "She doesn't seem to be adjusting to the environment that I provide and may be happier elsewhere but I'll be happy to have her in my care for 2 weeks while you look for other care". DCM didn't really say anything but I could tell she was mad. Shortly after, I got a long voicemail from DCD then a long text saying that they were totally blind-sided, 2 weeks isnt long enough, could I take her until the end of August, this is a really bad time for me to put them through this, I should know how to deal with a crying baby, could they get a refund... then it was her turn. She sent me a message saying that she would look for care right away since she didnt want her child somewhere that she wasnt wanted. Between them, I got about 4 sad messages from her and 6 angry texts, voicemails and phone calls from him. I was feeling horrible but his behavior made me decide to give short responses and refuse to engage. I did give them a letter as well, effective August 8. They are paid through next week and he left me a message saying that they may or may not use "their last week". When I messaged telling him it doesnt work that way and that if they decided to remove her early, payment for the final week would be due upon drop-off next week, he left me a message saying "good luck getting any more money from us". I really don't care about getting more money from them. I just dont want to deal with the hostile DCD at this point. I haven't responded since he said that but my worry is that he is the type to show up and try to drop her off after all of that. I'm emotional about this too so was hoping for some level-headed suggestions and advice.
Thanks in advance.
I would not let them in the door if they show up.

I'd also write a text:

Dear Dad/Mom.

Due to the tone of your emails, texts and voice messages, I will not be accepting (snowflake) back into care for their last two weeks. No refunds are given. I hope you are able to secure the care you need and do wish you the best.

Sincerely,
beaten up and tired of it Provider


ADDING: I agree with PP that says give licensing a heads up bc parents like these are the ones that make up stories
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dani987 10:21 AM 07-26-2014
Thank you, everyone! You are all so funny, brilliant and supportive. It's great to get feedback from people who understand. How did I not find this site years ago?! I'm such a big baby and I feel like you all just gathered around me and gave me a big hug. (I know, I'm a dork)
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Heidi 10:50 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by MOM OF 4:
I would not let them in the door if they show up.

I'd also write a text:

Dear Dad/Mom.

Due to the tone of your emails, texts and voice messages, I will not be accepting (snowflake) back into care for their last two weeks. No refunds are given. I hope you are able to secure the care you need and do wish you the best.

Sincerely,
beaten up and tired of it Provider


ADDING: I agree with PP that says give licensing a heads up bc parents like these are the ones that make up stories
Refrain from adding:

"Good luck getting that money back from me".


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NightOwl 11:04 AM 07-26-2014
Originally Posted by dani987:
Thank you, everyone! You are all so funny, brilliant and supportive. It's great to get feedback from people who understand. How did I not find this site years ago?! I'm such a big baby and I feel like you all just gathered around me and gave me a big hug. (I know, I'm a dork)
Nope, not a dork. We did exactly that.
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Shell 11:36 AM 07-26-2014
I had a family like this a long time ago, and I made the mistake of engaging in a back and forth with them where dcm first got angry and insulting, and then she tried to make me feel badly because I left them without care. Sometimes you just have to do what is right for you.Nannyde is very right in comparing it to a breakup, and once I thought of it in those terms, it was easy to understand that parents want the upper hand and don't like being told, "no". I like the letters others suggested above and agree they should never ever return! Just the facts of care terminated effective immediately- no emotion, no replying to dcm or dcd. Sorry they are being this way!
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daycarediva 03:25 PM 07-26-2014
STOP ENGAGING. NO more responding.

I would send ONE final email.

I would say that:

Their child has been a welcome addition to your group. You have attempted to integrate her into your care for X time frame. The child is NOT adjusting as well as you had hoped. You are looking out for THEIR child's best interest and believe he/she would flourish with a (lower ratio/nanny) due to the child's need for more 1:1 attention.

they are welcome to use their final two weeks, UNLESS there are any further incidents of rudeness, disrespect or violation of policy. Then termination will be effective IMMEDIATELY. NO refunds.

The final payment is due X date. Dck's final date will be X.

Refer them to their contract/parent handbook regarding the final two weeks of care. (mine outlines that if not paid in full balances, including late fees, court fees and missed work, will be taken to court.) I have received a judgment of over DOUBLE what was initially owed. I WOULD pursue the matter if they skip out if at all possible.

End with wishing them the best of luck in their search for childcare.



Retain your professionalism. Be polite. Stick to the contract.


Call your registrar/licensar for a heads up. They may report you.
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daycare 03:51 PM 07-26-2014
Sorry diva I disagree..

I would write one last letter via email and cert mail. But I would do as MV said and not allow them to come back at all. They have shown how ugly they can be and you don't need this to get any worse. Do not give them any more chances to take stabs at you or act out in front of other families.

Send any belonging back and tell them that due to the level of harassment and disrespect on their part that all services are immediately terminated indefinitely and there is no further need for communication.

I would explain in that letter that in group care it's what's in the best interest of all of the children and you did everything you could to help her adjust but it was not working. It is your responsibility to make sure all children are in a safe secure environment and when a baby screams like that it's not conducive to the the child or the rest of the children.

I think we hve all been through one of these crazy parents who don't seem to understand group care and still chose to do their way that works for them.

So sorry you are going through this.
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MOM OF 4 04:04 PM 07-26-2014
I honestly would not bother to explain the rest of it. Their rude behavior is what ultimately would get them an IMMEDIATE termination. They had the opportunity to bring their child the last 2 weeks, and blew it by being JERKS. For the benefit of your group and the safety of your home and daycare kids, I would not accept them back and send them a simple letter like the idea I submitted above.
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TwinKristi 05:57 PM 07-26-2014
I agree, immediate termination. Greatly disrespectful and unpredictable. Write an email and send certified letter saying so. I would personally refund just to get rid of them if you're not protected by your contract. I have it in my contract that upon termination for violating the contract and immediate termination they forfeit any prepaid funds or deposits.
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dani987 08:43 PM 07-28-2014
Just an update:
Throughout the weekend, DCM continued to send messages and wanted to meet with me to "have closure". I told her I wasn't comfortable with that at this time but she kept insisting. She needed to come and retrieve her belongings anyway because I had a supply of milk and she was using that as a reason to try to interact. I had all of her things ready expecting her to text me and say she was down the street, could she come by? at some random time. Sure enough, that's what happened. I wasn't home, but I told her that I would have someone at my house place her things outside and she was welcome to go by and pick them up. I had a cooler out and instructed my nephew to put the milk in it and put that and the bag of clothes, etc. outside on a little table on my porch. I was very careful to get everything but there there was a pacifier that we had lost while out on a walk and--Cheerfuldom called it!--DCM texted me saying that there should be one more pacifier! I messaged back that it had been lost but I would be happy to buy her another and send it to her. She called. I didnt answer. Then she texted to tell me that I'm ridiculous and to please dont ever contact her again. Not a problem!
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NightOwl 10:13 PM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by dani987:
Just an update:
Throughout the weekend, DCM continued to send messages and wanted to meet with me to "have closure". I told her I wasn't comfortable with that at this time but she kept insisting. She needed to come and retrieve her belongings anyway because I had a supply of milk and she was using that as a reason to try to interact. I had all of her things ready expecting her to text me and say she was down the street, could she come by? at some random time. Sure enough, that's what happened. I wasn't home, but I told her that I would have someone at my house place her things outside and she was welcome to go by and pick them up. I had a cooler out and instructed my nephew to put the milk in it and put that and the bag of clothes, etc. outside on a little table on my porch. I was very careful to get everything but there there was a pacifier that we had lost while out on a walk and--Cheerfuldom called it!--DCM texted me saying that there should be one more pacifier! I messaged back that it had been lost but I would be happy to buy her another and send it to her. She called. I didnt answer. Then she texted to tell me that I'm ridiculous and to please dont ever contact her again. Not a problem!
YOU'RE ridiculous?? How in the world does she figure that? Why does she need closure? You've know her for what? 3 months??
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KidGrind 10:43 PM 07-28-2014
Originally Posted by dani987:
Just an update:
Throughout the weekend, DCM continued to send messages and wanted to meet with me to "have closure". I told her I wasn't comfortable with that at this time but she kept insisting. She needed to come and retrieve her belongings anyway because I had a supply of milk and she was using that as a reason to try to interact. I had all of her things ready expecting her to text me and say she was down the street, could she come by? at some random time. Sure enough, that's what happened. I wasn't home, but I told her that I would have someone at my house place her things outside and she was welcome to go by and pick them up. I had a cooler out and instructed my nephew to put the milk in it and put that and the bag of clothes, etc. outside on a little table on my porch. I was very careful to get everything but there there was a pacifier that we had lost while out on a walk and--Cheerfuldom called it!--DCM texted me saying that there should be one more pacifier! I messaged back that it had been lost but I would be happy to buy her another and send it to her. She called. I didnt answer. Then she texted to tell me that I'm ridiculous and to please dont ever contact her again. Not a problem!
Closure = You.Are.Termed

What the **** does she want from you? Anyhow I need All Knowing Daycare Whisperer Extraordinaire & Professional Parent Reader NannyDe to break this down for me.

I do not get it.
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Unregistered 04:18 AM 07-29-2014
Looks like someone was having difficulty not having the upper hand, or wanting to get some last words in face to face. Done is done, time to move on. I would have giggled at the request never to contact her again, especially after getting that one last little jab in first calling you ridiculous

Enjoy your less stressful days ahead.
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CraftyMom 04:50 AM 07-29-2014
"Don't contact me ever again" That's a good one! Because YOU have been texting and calling THEM and leaving voicemails and messages.

Sometimes you just have to laugh!

Now that she has her closure you can move on

It's probably good that it ended this way. Mom sounds like she would have been more trouble down the road
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hope 07:26 AM 07-29-2014
Enjoy yourself now that the drama is behind you!
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crazydaycarelady 07:28 AM 07-29-2014
nannyde that s so funny! I used to have a friend who spoke her mind and didn't sugar coat anything. We always joked that I needed to put her on the payroll as my "secretary."

dani987 - don't feel bad - they would dump you in a heartbeat if they felt it was right for them!
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Indianadaycare 08:46 AM 07-29-2014
SO sorry you've had to go through this! They took advantage of your kind attitude all along. I had a dcf like this years ago. I had a "bad feeling" during the interview, but took them anyway. Bad idea! It was a horrible, stress filled relationship for the whole three years! Ended badly; even though I loved their little boy very much and he and I bonded so well. Some parents are just....difficult! :roll eyes: Lesson to me: go with my gut instinct during initial interview and first two weeks! (when you can easily term during "trial period")
I would not have any more communication ever with them.

Now. Enjoy that wonderful feeling now that this family is gone!!
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Shell 09:19 AM 07-29-2014
Oh please, how pathetic they just had to have he final word! I left belongings outside for my problem family, too. I didn't hear from them until tax time- dcm was the most unorganized person I had ever met, and emailed asking for the info. I gave it to her, just the info- no hello or any polite small talk, and she wrote back, "thank you". That was the end of them! Did you take care of the tax stuff? Glad this is over for you
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dani987 11:15 AM 07-29-2014
Again, thank you so much. This whole thing was so ugly and hurtful but I'm over the worst of it and feeling great about moving forward thanks in part to encouragement and understanding from all of you. I'm sorry for anyone who has ever dealt with people like this (Indiana daycare--3years!!!?!) but it sure helps to know that I'm not alone. I did have to laugh when she said not to contact her--it made me think of someone getting fired, then yelling "I quit!" LOL
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cheerfuldom 07:16 PM 07-29-2014
Originally Posted by dani987:
Just an update:
Throughout the weekend, DCM continued to send messages and wanted to meet with me to "have closure". I told her I wasn't comfortable with that at this time but she kept insisting. She needed to come and retrieve her belongings anyway because I had a supply of milk and she was using that as a reason to try to interact. I had all of her things ready expecting her to text me and say she was down the street, could she come by? at some random time. Sure enough, that's what happened. I wasn't home, but I told her that I would have someone at my house place her things outside and she was welcome to go by and pick them up. I had a cooler out and instructed my nephew to put the milk in it and put that and the bag of clothes, etc. outside on a little table on my porch. I was very careful to get everything but there there was a pacifier that we had lost while out on a walk and--Cheerfuldom called it!--DCM texted me saying that there should be one more pacifier! I messaged back that it had been lost but I would be happy to buy her another and send it to her. She called. I didnt answer. Then she texted to tell me that I'm ridiculous and to please dont ever contact her again. Not a problem!
ha. I knew it! Parents play the same game over and over and what they don't know is that we already know all the moves we can make and we are ready for it. One step ahead baby!
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cheerfuldom 07:22 PM 07-29-2014
Originally Posted by KidGrind:
Closure = You.Are.Termed

What the **** does she want from you? Anyhow I need All Knowing Daycare Whisperer Extraordinaire & Professional Parent Reader NannyDe to break this down for me.

I do not get it.
Nanny says its like a break up. You dumped them and they are not happy. They want the upper hand and the last word if they cant sweet talk their way back into the daycare. She would have been "nice" to you in person, acted confused about what happened and try to guilt you into keeping them. Then when you said no, you would have had a confrontation on your porch. You did the right thing in refusing to see her.
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nannyde 08:00 PM 07-29-2014
They can't square up how an employee can fire the boss.
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SignMeUp 08:04 PM 07-29-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
They can't square up how an employee can fire the boss.

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KidGrind 08:35 PM 07-29-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
They can't square up how an employee can fire the boss.


Oh when will they understand to be my boss it will cost them a whole lot more?
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itlw8 08:45 PM 07-29-2014
they actually do have a point. You broke the contract not them . So They do not have to pay you for any additional time if they do not attend.

As long as it is in your contract about no refunds then you should be fine on that point. But if not you may owe them a refund if they choose not to attend as you broke the contract not them.
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dani987 10:38 AM 07-30-2014
Originally Posted by itlw8:
they actually do have a point. You broke the contract not them . So They do not have to pay you for any additional time if they do not attend.

As long as it is in your contract about no refunds then you should be fine on that point. But if not you may owe them a refund if they choose not to attend as you broke the contract not them.
I did everything according to contract.
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Zeke 11:17 AM 07-30-2014
I would terminate immediately. IMMEDIATELY.

I had a family like this years ago.. in fact the baby girl was exactly the age as the one you have... and she screamed ALL DAY EVERY DAY. Mom said to call if it ever gets too bad. In 6 weeks I called 2 times... dad came *storming* up the stairs and said 'THIS is just NOT GOING TO WORK!' I was like, ya know, you are right- this is NOT working! ... he took his babe and stomped out. He was having a day with the oldest that day so actually had 2 of their kiddos enrolled. I didn't hear a WORD from them for THREE DAYS. I sent a term letter on the 3rd day and filled both spots. That eve I received a call they would bring both the next day. Told them they were no longer enrolled and the spots were filled... he cause a LOT of trouble for me On a funny note... the oldest one was kicked out of another daycare and a preschool after I was done with them... he was the WORST kiddo I have EVER had. The girl just screamed but the boy actually hit, kicked and was down right mean

NOT WORTH it... just boot them.

PS I have in my policy they must pay for the 2 weeks no matter WHY they are terminated. If the behavior of teir childre OR them.. is a result of having to term... you still should be paid for the contracted days
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