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Unregistered 08:12 AM 06-27-2016
I have two 3 year old boys who are fully ready to potty train, but dcf's won't take the time. They are basically waiting for child to make the decision to use the toilet on their own.

More and more I am having to deal with blow out diapers that go up the back because their diapers are too small for their bm's. I'm thinking of charging for this, or trying to come up with a motivational penalty. Any ideas for me?
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permanentvacation 08:28 AM 06-27-2016
If you've already discussed the problem with the parents, then I would suggest that you buy the size diapers you believe the children need and supply the diapers yourself. And that either you potty train the kids while they are with you and don't worry about what the parents are doing about potty training at home. Or do what the parents are doing and wait for the children to show interest in training.

I have fought against many, many parents in my area. I never had problems with parents in my old area. But here, I couldn't tell you how many parents I try to teach how to be parents. This past weekend, I finally decided to stop trying to make people do things or be people that they simply aren't. I learned a long time ago when trying to get my abusive husband to stop being abusive that you can't make anyone do anything that they don't want to do. The only person you can control or make do anything is yourself.

So, you need to decide what YOU are going to do. Are you going to continue to fuss with the same parents over the same thing knowing that they are never going to change? Are you going to buy the size diapers you believe the children need? Are you going to potty train at your house and not care if they potty train at their house since you already know they don't plan on doing so anytime soon? Or are you going to decide that you simply cannot accept that those parents won't do what you believe is right in this situation and are going to decide to terminate the children?
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Blackcat31 08:30 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I have two 3 year old boys who are fully ready to potty train, but dcf's won't take the time. They are basically waiting for child to make the decision to use the toilet on their own.

More and more I am having to deal with blow out diapers that go up the back because their diapers are too small for their bm's. I'm thinking of charging for this, or trying to come up with a motivational penalty. Any ideas for me?
ANY uncontained "blow out" equates to being sent home.

If I send a child home from care, they are excluded for 48 hours.
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lovemydaycare0912 08:35 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
ANY uncontained "blow out" equates to being sent home.

If I send a child home from care, they are excluded for 48 hours.
I'm sure they'd get the hint after this. Imagine sending home Monday. Return Thursday. Send home. Return Monday.
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Unregistered 10:32 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
If you've already discussed the problem with the parents, then I would suggest that you buy the size diapers you believe the children need and supply the diapers yourself. And that either you potty train the kids while they are with you and don't worry about what the parents are doing about potty training at home. Or do what the parents are doing and wait for the children to show interest in training.

I have fought against many, many parents in my area. I never had problems with parents in my old area. But here, I couldn't tell you how many parents I try to teach how to be parents. This past weekend, I finally decided to stop trying to make people do things or be people that they simply aren't. I learned a long time ago when trying to get my abusive husband to stop being abusive that you can't make anyone do anything that they don't want to do. The only person you can control or make do anything is yourself.

So, you need to decide what YOU are going to do. Are you going to continue to fuss with the same parents over the same thing knowing that they are never going to change? Are you going to buy the size diapers you believe the children need? Are you going to potty train at your house and not care if they potty train at their house since you already know they don't plan on doing so anytime soon? Or are you going to decide that you simply cannot accept that those parents won't do what you believe is right in this situation and are going to decide to terminate the children?
I don't know here...it's not my job to buy diapers nor to potty train. I'm not terming over this, but it is a sanitary issue. I don't need giardiasis or any other gross poop type parasite showing up here.

The dcf's are good except for this. I'm noticing a trend with some parents. Some are just too self-involved to notice or care when they have to actually work at parenting, such as in potty training.
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Unregistered 10:33 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
ANY uncontained "blow out" equates to being sent home.

If I send a child home from care, they are excluded for 48 hours.
Interesting. Have you lost any dcf's due to your sick/exclusion policy?
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Thriftylady 10:38 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I don't know here...it's not my job to buy diapers nor to potty train. I'm not terming over this, but it is a sanitary issue. I don't need giardiasis or any other gross poop type parasite showing up here.

The dcf's are good except for this. I'm noticing a trend with some parents. Some are just too self-involved to notice or care when they have to actually work at parenting, such as in potty training.
I wouldn't buy diapers either. But I also wouldn't continue to deal with a sanitary issue. It isn't just nasty and gross, it isn't safe for your family or the other children in care. And that is what I would tell the parents, that as long as this continued to happen, they couldn't stay in care where it put the other children at risk. I didn't know it until I started daycare in KS, but many illnesses can be transmitted by fecal matter. I had parents who didn't tell me, but a boy in care got salmonella. The health dept. came and did all sorts of checks right down to the attendance records of kids, asked lots of questions about how the health of the other kids ect, because it turns out salmonella can be transferred that way, along with MANY other things. Before that, I thought it was only a food thing!
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Blackcat31 10:39 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Interesting. Have you lost any dcf's due to your sick/exclusion policy?
Nope. I think parents actually like the rule. (I've had families contact me specifically because of my illness policies)

I have little to no illness spread back and forth.

I might just have really good parents/families too but I've had the rule for several years now and no one has ever complained or not signed on because of it. I have a lengthy wait list and care is not hard to find here.
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Leigh 10:40 AM 06-27-2016
I'd just tell the parents today that they MUST start providing the proper sized diaper (and tell them what size you need!). They go up to size 7 in Pampers Cruisers, I know. Then, don't accept the child without the proper size. Let parents know that it is a sanitation issue. You can't do anything about potty training, and honestly, I'm on the parents' side with this-I'd rather wait until the child is ready. It's much easier.
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Unregistered 11:15 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by Leigh:
I'd just tell the parents today that they MUST start providing the proper sized diaper (and tell them what size you need!). They go up to size 7 in Pampers Cruisers, I know. Then, don't accept the child without the proper size. Let parents know that it is a sanitation issue. You can't do anything about potty training, and honestly, I'm on the parents' side with this-I'd rather wait until the child is ready. It's much easier.
These children are ready. They tell me when they need to be changed because they have the least little pee and they tell me before they have to poo and then go hide. It's hard work to potty train, but also a necessary skill.

I don't think the dcf's are purposely not providing the right size for the children - they buy the size for the child's weight. If you buy them too big, I imagine the kids wouldn't feel pee or poo at all, and it would take even longer to train.

These parents need to just buckle down and get this done. I mean, it takes, what, a weekend?
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:22 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
These children are ready. They tell me when they need to be changed because they have the least little pee and they tell me before they have to poo and then go hide. It's hard work to potty train, but also a necessary skill.

I don't think the dcf's are purposely not providing the right size for the children - they buy the size for the child's weight. If you buy them too big, I imagine the kids wouldn't feel pee or poo at all, and it would take even longer to train.

These parents need to just buckle down and get this done. I mean, it takes, what, a weekend?
Have them use the toilet during regularly scheduled restroom breaks like the big kids.
They could easily be fully potty trained with YOU and not at home. It has happened here before and no, I don't typically potty train children (in fact, in my handbook it says I do not) BUT ... if they're REALLY able to be potty trained then it takes 1 day tops. Since I have 11-12 kids here daily, I'd rather they go in the toilet than change a poop diaper.
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permanentvacation 11:37 AM 06-27-2016
You don't potty train children, but you take kids who are not potty trained yet? And you just expect the parents to potty train, but you don't offer to potty train them while they are in daycare? You said that it's not your job to potty train. If you take children who are not potty trained, then, yes, it is your job to potty train them during the time they are in your care and it's the parents' job to train them while they are with the parents. Children can not only be potty training while at home and then not trained all day long at daycare.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:40 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
You don't potty train children, but you take kids who are not potty trained yet? And you just expect the parents to potty train, but you don't offer to potty train them while they are in daycare? You said that it's not your job to potty train. If you take children who are not potty trained, then, yes, it is your job to potty train them during the time they are in your care and it's the parents' job to train them while they are with the parents. Children can not only be potty training while at home and then not trained all day long at daycare.
I don't agree. She doesn't HAVE to potty train them. The parent could do this on a weekend and then have them in pull-ups or underwear and plastic pants at daycare until they've been accident free for a set number of days. I've done that here many times with great success. I've also potty trained a child who was more than ready but had a parent who just couldn't commit to doing it.
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JackandJill 11:53 AM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
You don't potty train children, but you take kids who are not potty trained yet? And you just expect the parents to potty train, but you don't offer to potty train them while they are in daycare? You said that it's not your job to potty train. If you take children who are not potty trained, then, yes, it is your job to potty train them during the time they are in your care and it's the parents' job to train them while they are with the parents. Children can not only be potty training while at home and then not trained all day long at daycare.
I don't potty train either. I gladly help with the training, but it must start at home on a long weekend or vacation. I will only do it when the child has accomplished a list of potty skills at home, before starting in care. Once they are trained they still have to wear pull ups until they have gone 2 weeks accident free. And I think that is pretty fair, considering how much work and frustration goes into potty training!
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Unregistered 12:05 PM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
You don't potty train children, but you take kids who are not potty trained yet? And you just expect the parents to potty train, but you don't offer to potty train them while they are in daycare? You said that it's not your job to potty train. If you take children who are not potty trained, then, yes, it is your job to potty train them during the time they are in your care and it's the parents' job to train them while they are with the parents. Children can not only be potty training while at home and then not trained all day long at daycare.
OP here. I think your last sentence says it all. Of course I potty train, but I work WITH dcf's, not by myself. Otherwise all the work I do is undone at night or over a weekend. Why should put it effort to potty train, when mom and dad are just throwing pull ups on?
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Unregistered 12:10 PM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by JackandJill:
I don't potty train either. I gladly help with the training, but it must start at home on a long weekend or vacation. I will only do it when the child has accomplished a list of potty skills at home, before starting in care. Once they are trained they still have to wear pull ups until they have gone 2 weeks accident free. And I think that is pretty fair, considering how much work and frustration goes into potty training!
OP here. This is pretty close to my policy. I don't have a list of skills, but I think it's obvious when kids are ready. And THAT is my frustration with these two boys. They are ready, but need that push. I'm not going to potty train their kids for them when mom and dad will go home and put diapers on them after daycare hours. I would just have to begin the process over and over and over again.
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Unregistered 12:17 PM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
I don't agree. She doesn't HAVE to potty train them. The parent could do this on a weekend and then have them in pull-ups or underwear and plastic pants at daycare until they've been accident free for a set number of days. I've done that here many times with great success. I've also potty trained a child who was more than ready but had a parent who just couldn't commit to doing it.
OP here. Yeah, potty training, in my opinion, is a joint effort. I don't get paid enough to potty train children without help. Some people, maybe they are really good at this. Not me! My focus is on play, letters, numbers, having fun outdoors, teaching my fun little curriculum...it's not like I don't have better things to do.

I'm not trying to sound unwilling, but I have a zillion things going on in my day. Teaching little dck something that should start at home from mom and dad isn't high on my list. I can not be all things to all people.

But I have not had this issue before, and many kids have been potty trained in my care just fine. As a joint venture.
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Thriftylady 12:20 PM 06-27-2016
I don't "potty train" either. I ask parents to start it at home on a weekend or vacation, and I will gladly follow through with the training at daycare. I will not do it unless the parents start it and are actively doing it. To me, there is a difference there.
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Blackcat31 12:24 PM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
You don't potty train children, but you take kids who are not potty trained yet? And you just expect the parents to potty train, but you don't offer to potty train them while they are in daycare? You said that it's not your job to potty train. If you take children who are not potty trained, then, yes, it is your job to potty train them during the time they are in your care and it's the parents' job to train them while they are with the parents. Children can not only be potty training while at home and then not trained all day long at daycare.
I take children not trained and it's not MY job to train them when they are ready to train. As a matter of fact I don't even remember the last time I had a conversation about potty training with a family.

When the child is ready most my families take a long weekend (3-4 days usually) and then come back and tell me their child is trained.

Works great for me. I have an entire section in my handbook about what a child must do before they are ready to train so maybe that helps, I don't know but potty training is not MY job.
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MunchkinWrangler 12:28 PM 06-27-2016
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
You don't potty train children, but you take kids who are not potty trained yet? And you just expect the parents to potty train, but you don't offer to potty train them while they are in daycare? You said that it's not your job to potty train. If you take children who are not potty trained, then, yes, it is your job to potty train them during the time they are in your care and it's the parents' job to train them while they are with the parents. Children can not only be potty training while at home and then not trained all day long at daycare.
I don't potty train either. I have a child who has been 'potty training" since Sept of last year. You don't potty train a kid that long. I believe in taking a weekend to do it, only if the child is ready.

I have tried to take it on in my own way and there is no follow through at home, so I dropped it. If anything the child started going in their diaper more. I have guidelines that the child must meet first before I will even consider it at my home. I don't want accidents on my couch and whatnot.
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permanentvacation 12:30 PM 06-27-2016
What I was saying is simply that if she's already told the parents the problem and they aren't doing anything different. Then she needs to realize that they aren't going to change their ways. She can either continue being upset by the same thing and continue saying the same thing to the parents over and over again with no results or she can make changes herself such as buy the size diapers that will hold the child's mess, potty train the children herself even though the parents won't, etc. Or if she doesn't want to make changes herself and does not want to continue being irritated by the fact that the parents won't make changes, then she could terminate the child.

'and then have them in pull-ups or underwear and plastic pants at daycare until they've been accident free for a set number of days.' ~EntropyControlSpecialist

That is potty training. That is you, the daycare provider potty training the child while at daycare. You have them in pull-ups or underwear and plastic pants and remind the child to go to the toilet and not to mess in their pants. That is what I meant when I said that if she takes children who aren't potty trained, she needs to be willing to potty train them while they are in daycare.
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WAHMderful_Life 07:31 AM 06-28-2016
I don't have this in my contract but thinking its a good idea to add in, is children who have reached 2 1/2 (or sooner if parents choose) need to be sent in pull ups not diapers. That way you can set them on the potty. I find by this age they are getting to big for a change table. The Parents need to do the training but we need to be at least setting them on the potty. pull ups or huggies little movers pull ons (I ask for huggies brand as they have easy open sides. I hate the pampers trainers). Then just set them on the potty before going outside, before eating, after eating etc. easiest way to do it. or when ever your big kids have potty breaks. I let my younger ones sit for a good 5 or so minutes after lunch and they both started pooping in the potty at that time and stopped pooping their pants. But that was the time they tend to poop their pants normally at nap which is after lunch.

children have to go 2 weeks without an accident to be aloud in underwear and must have pull ups for nap until they no longer have accidents while sleeping.

Potty training is my most hated parenting responsibility as its one that can be very very frustrating and time consuming so I will not take the responsibility to train other peoples kids. Setting them on the potty is all I do. can't move past that until they start telling you that they need to go which I have found 2yr olds don't typically do. sometime when they reach 3 I find they start to let you know and then they just get it and can start doing it themselves. you can't rush potty training they have to get it on their time but they can't get if they are not at least doing the basics (sitting on the potty = figuring it out) I do not use little potties we sit on the big one with a child seat.
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Unregistered 02:33 PM 06-28-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I take children not trained and it's not MY job to train them when they are ready to train. As a matter of fact I don't even remember the last time I had a conversation about potty training with a family.

When the child is ready most my families take a long weekend (3-4 days usually) and then come back and tell me their child is trained.

Works great for me. I have an entire section in my handbook about what a child must do before they are ready to train so maybe that helps, I don't know but potty training is not MY job.
I have used your policy for a couple years now and I LOVE IT! All the stress on the parents, not me, and I will 'assist'
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Crazy8 02:39 PM 06-28-2016
I have always recommended potty training "boot camp" where parents buckle down and stay home for 3-4 days to really get the training started and in years past it worked 99% of the time. Child would come in trained (or very close to it). These days though I find parents look at you like you have 2 heads if you even suggest they stay home for a weekend much less any longer and their "methods" of potty training mean a child is in pull ups and having accidents for months.
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Crazy8 02:43 PM 06-28-2016
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
You don't potty train children, but you take kids who are not potty trained yet? And you just expect the parents to potty train, but you don't offer to potty train them while they are in daycare? You said that it's not your job to potty train. If you take children who are not potty trained, then, yes, it is your job to potty train them during the time they are in your care and it's the parents' job to train them while they are with the parents. Children can not only be potty training while at home and then not trained all day long at daycare.
My policy is for parents to START training at home - this means a serious start, not just an occasional trip to the potty. They come in here wearing pull ups until I have determined they are ready to be in underwear. Has worked just fine for me for many years, until recently. I never had as many lazy parents as I have seen in recent years.
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WAHMderful_Life 07:53 PM 06-28-2016
seeing lots of comments about parents being lazy with potty training. I have to question what age is everyone expecting these young children to be potty trained? I question this as I know people tend to think kids should be potty trained in my opinion before they are truly ready. Like if the child barely talks and doesn't communicate what he needs or wants yet with words he can't be expected to be potty trained in my opinion. I feel 3 3.5 is when most are ready and some are earlier but when pushed to early of the ones needing more time its going to back fire. When ever I read about 18month olds being potty trained I think the parents are crazy as I wouldn't even be thinking about it at that point.
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Leigh 08:50 PM 06-28-2016
Originally Posted by WAHMderful_Life:
seeing lots of comments about parents being lazy with potty training. I have to question what age is everyone expecting these young children to be potty trained? I question this as I know people tend to think kids should be potty trained in my opinion before they are truly ready. Like if the child barely talks and doesn't communicate what he needs or wants yet with words he can't be expected to be potty trained in my opinion. I feel 3 3.5 is when most are ready and some are earlier but when pushed to early of the ones needing more time its going to back fire. When ever I read about 18month olds being potty trained I think the parents are crazy as I wouldn't even be thinking about it at that point.
I just got notice from a mom who wanted me to start training her (young) 2 year old. I told her no. She gave me two weeks. I'm just not going there. The kid isn't ready and is already an emotional basket case. The kid's brother had several blockages from being pushed to train from age 2 until about 2 months ago (when he finally started using the toilet just shy of 5).

Average is 3 for girls, 3.5 for boys. I've read that training before 3 isn't wise because it can cause hardening of the bladder walls to take away uninhibited elimination before that age (bedwetting, accidents). I just don't go there. If I am to participate in training, I don't do it until I feel the kid is ready. My own child trained at 3.5. It was as easy as handing him a pair of underwear and telling him that we didn't have any more diapers. NO accidents. He was ready. THAT'S the way to train, IMO.
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Play Care 05:20 AM 06-29-2016
Originally Posted by Leigh:
I just got notice from a mom who wanted me to start training her (young) 2 year old. I told her no. She gave me two weeks. I'm just not going there. The kid isn't ready and is already an emotional basket case. The kid's brother had several blockages from being pushed to train from age 2 until about 2 months ago (when he finally started using the toilet just shy of 5).

Average is 3 for girls, 3.5 for boys. I've read that training before 3 isn't wise because it can cause hardening of the bladder walls to take away uninhibited elimination before that age (bedwetting, accidents). I just don't go there. If I am to participate in training, I don't do it until I feel the kid is ready. My own child trained at 3.5. It was as easy as handing him a pair of underwear and telling him that we didn't have any more diapers. NO accidents. He was ready. THAT'S the way to train, IMO.
In my DC the kids who trained early had the most issues. They weren't ready to train but the parents were ready to be done with diapers I have one teacher's kid who thankfully isn't here over the summer, but I was *this close* to giving notice. He just turned 3 in December and he's been "training" ever since. He also has some clear delays so it's actually like he's a year (or more) younger than he is. The only reason he doesn't have accidents here is because we are constantly bringing him to the bathroom. Where we have to watch him like a hawk so he doesn't get in to things...
Mom is in denial but diapers are the least of her issues.
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Leigh 01:08 PM 06-30-2016
Originally Posted by Leigh:
I just got notice from a mom who wanted me to start training her (young) 2 year old. I told her no. She gave me two weeks. I'm just not going there. The kid isn't ready and is already an emotional basket case. The kid's brother had several blockages from being pushed to train from age 2 until about 2 months ago (when he finally started using the toilet just shy of 5).

Average is 3 for girls, 3.5 for boys. I've read that training before 3 isn't wise because it can cause hardening of the bladder walls to take away uninhibited elimination before that age (bedwetting, accidents). I just don't go there. If I am to participate in training, I don't do it until I feel the kid is ready. My own child trained at 3.5. It was as easy as handing him a pair of underwear and telling him that we didn't have any more diapers. NO accidents. He was ready. THAT'S the way to train, IMO.
Yesterday at pickup, this same mom lost it on her 2 year old. She had pooped her diaper right before mom got here (I was just finishing the change), and got yelled at for not telling me to take her to the potty! She just turned TWO! She doesn't have ANY control of elimination yet. She doesn't have any of the skills needed to potty train, and she doesn't even know what it's about. I'm still upset over her kid getting yelled at for doing something she has no control over. Truth is, I wouldn't have taken her to the potty if she had come up to me and said "excuse me, Ms. Leigh, but I feel the urge to defecate, could you please direct me to the nearest restroom facility?"
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Unregistered 01:15 PM 06-30-2016
Oh wow that is so sad. That lady can just clear her calendar for the next 4 years cause she just signed up for extended withholding, constipation, pee accidents due to the blockage, and a child fraught with anxiety. Good luck lady! Sad.
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Leigh 01:25 PM 06-30-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Oh wow that is so sad. That lady can just clear her calendar for the next 4 years cause she just signed up for extended withholding, constipation, pee accidents due to the blockage, and a child fraught with anxiety. Good luck lady! Sad.
Agreed. The anxiety is already present. The others, she's already been through with her next oldest, who just got potty trained a couple months shy of 5 years old (after multiple blockages).
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Unregistered 03:22 PM 07-09-2016
My dd was pt at 18 mos....hated being wet or poopy and sorta just did it. My son was 2 and wanted to be like sissy. My twins were 2.5 and 3 (the boy was pee trained 2.5 but poop, due to a bowel issue, he was not trained til 3 days before 3rd birthday. All kids r different. My dcp expected underwear with plastics. She didn't train. In actuality, I didn't either. My kids just sort of copied the older 2. Lol it was great for me.

When I did dc though, I had one that wasn't done til 5 and sister age 2 was going on the potty while he was not. He had heart surgery for a minor condition at birth and mom was always scared to make him do anything even tho dr said to treat him normally. The kid came to me at 4 and could not change clothes, put on a coat or go to bathroom. He also ha binky which I "lost" the first day. Sometimes, parents are lazy as hell bc the sister was very much treated differently though she was almost 3 yrs younger. She was def more independent and could do everything he could not.
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Tags:parents - don't cooperate, potty trained - not, potty training issues
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