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  #1  
Old 10-30-2013, 05:58 AM
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Default Am I Being Unreasonable?

So I'm still struggling with the mom of dcb that got surgery last week. He's been running a low fever since then apparently and is still in a lot of pain which makes him irritable when his ibuprofen wears off apparently so apparently dcm wants me to give him ibuprofen around the clock. My policy handbook doesn't cover giving meds around the clock because I never thought I'd encounter this situation. Dcm wants me to constantly give him ibuprofen because her nurse friend said so. She also can get a dr note no problem. However, regardless of the note, I don't feel comfortable dosing him constantly especially if he's been dosed like this for a week (since he hasn't been here). Once again this is a situation she sprung on me at drop off and left. I am struggling today especially as morning sickness has hit me hard so I don't want to sound.....um....grumpy? Am I being unreasonable if I tell her I won't dose him more than once and if he really is that bad he should go home?
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2013, 06:09 AM
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Yes, if he is in that much pain that he needs meds around the clock and you are not comfortable giving it, he should be at home!!

I would never send my son to daycare if he was still in pain from surgery!!!
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:11 AM
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If he is in enough pain to need the meds, he is in too much pain to be there. If he cannot participate normally without medication, he should be at home. I don't think that is unreasonable.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:21 AM
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I'm sorry but he shouldn't have been allowed to attend in the first place.

This poor little guy needs to be home recuperating in the comfort of his own home.

I get that parents HAVE to work, but come on....her baby had surgery. Take the time off to be with him.

I would absolutely tell mom you will not dose him.

I personally wouldn't agree to even doing it once.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:41 AM
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She was frustrated that he hasn't been better after over a week since ear tubes and adenoidectomy is "supposed to be a simple surgery" and she doesn't want to miss more work for this surgery. I get that and offered her to keep him home without having to pay for those days he's gone but if I send him home then she pays full price. So I just don't get it...I know missing work costs money too...but geez...

Also...how can I avoid her springing stuff on me in the middle of drop offs? Just say no to all last minute requests? I'm tempted to send out a message that all requests not made a minimum of 24 hours in advance will not be honored. I know with experience I'll be able to rebuff her attempts to slip stuff by easier but lately she claims she forgot to tell me until the last minute...and it is frustrating that my inexperience with this is showing...
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:43 AM
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I would totally send mom and child to the dr with one of my forms and then I would determine from that point if the child was well enough for daycare.

There is NO REASON this child should still be in that much pain after that type of surgery that requires around the clock meds of any type to control. That being said, something may not be healing right. Hence, I'd exclude until my dr form is filled out. And let me clarify. MY. DR. FORM. not moms and not a generic return to care dr form. On my form I would list my concerns and those have to be addressed before I can determine return to care.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2013, 06:48 AM
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I would totally send mom and child to the dr with one of my forms and then I would determine from that point if the child was well enough for daycare.

There is NO REASON this child should still be in that much pain after that type of surgery that requires around the clock meds of any type to control. That being said, something may not be healing right. Hence, I'd exclude until my dr form is filled out. And let me clarify. MY. DR. FORM. not moms and not a generic return to care dr form. On my form I would list my concerns and those have to be addressed before I can determine return to care.
Great idea except she works for her son's dr. When he was running a fever and had a terribly goopy eye, I required a dr note and the note said word for word what dcm claimed it was and that he could continue care. When I commented on it and that he still needed to go home, she got mad because she said she had a note. I wouldn't put it past her to have the dr fill it out to her satisfaction.

On a side note...can I see this form?
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:53 AM
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I would totally send mom and child to the dr with one of my forms and then I would determine from that point if the child was well enough for daycare.

There is NO REASON this child should still be in that much pain after that type of surgery that requires around the clock meds of any type to control. That being said, something may not be healing right. Hence, I'd exclude until my dr form is filled out. And let me clarify. MY. DR. FORM. not moms and not a generic return to care dr form. On my form I would list my concerns and those have to be addressed before I can determine return to care.

Agree!!! My kids have had 5 pairs of tubes between the 2 of them. Both were happy and normal within the first few hours. It sounds like something might be wrong with the tonsil part. My sister had a complication with hers sounds exactly like what your daycare kid is going through. My sister needed IV antibiotics. Since my father is a doctor she was able to get it at home. But I think your kiddo needs to be seen and have them fill out one of your doctor forms.
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2013, 07:07 AM
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Maybe I'm just ignorant about the way fever/pain reducers work, but if he's been receiving a continuous dose of ibuprofen and still has a low grade fever then wouldn't that suggest that if he weren't on it he'd have an actual fever? Hope that makes sense I would just be worried that the ibuprofen is concealing something serious.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:13 AM
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I would be concerned that there is an infection after a week of fever. If the child can't participate after 72 hours of constant medication something is up and I'd have her have the child checked again and require a note before returning. If the doctor just writes whatever mom wants well...you'll never know but at least you are covering your butt. Something is not right here.
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  #11  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:01 AM
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Maybe I'm just ignorant about the way fever/pain reducers work, but if he's been receiving a continuous dose of ibuprofen and still has a low grade fever then wouldn't that suggest that if he weren't on it he'd have an actual fever? Hope that makes sense I would just be worried that the ibuprofen is concealing something serious.
Yes this is exactly what I told dcm. I had her come pick him up. I can sympathize about missing work...but I need to do what is best for dcb. I worry she might term since she was miffed I wouldn't let him stay again but it will a lesson learned...

Oh and she wasn't at work anyway so surprise...it worked out...
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:07 AM
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Also...how can I avoid her springing stuff on me in the middle of drop offs? Just say no to all last minute requests? I'm tempted to send out a message that all requests not made a minimum of 24 hours in advance will not be honored. I know with experience I'll be able to rebuff her attempts to slip stuff by easier but lately she claims she forgot to tell me until the last minute...and it is frustrating that my inexperience with this is showing...
If she springs a last minute request on you, say "Dcm, I am so busy right now taking care of all these kids that I can't accommodate last minute request from you and I kind of feel like you put me on the spot when you ask. From now on, ALL requests need to be in writing and made atleast 12-24 hours in advance. If you forget to ask, then the answer is no."


Then send the note home stating exactly that. It's rude for parents to assume you can pick up the slack when you are caring for more than just their child.
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:14 AM
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Yes this is exactly what I told dcm. I had her come pick him up. I can sympathize about missing work...but I need to do what is best for dcb. I worry she might term since she was miffed I wouldn't let him stay again but it will a lesson learned...

Oh and she wasn't at work anyway so surprise...it worked out...
She wasn't even at work??!!

I'm seriously pissed at this Mom! I feel for you!
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:18 AM
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If she springs a last minute request on you, say "Dcm, I am so busy right now taking care of all these kids that I can't accommodate last minute request from you and I kind of feel like you put me on the spot when you ask. From now on, ALL requests need to be in writing and made atleast 12-24 hours in advance. If you forget to ask, then the answer is no."


Then send the note home stating exactly that. It's rude for parents to assume you can pick up the slack when you are caring for more than just their child.
Ok thank you. I was thinking that but wording wasn't coming to me. I'll send out a reminder of this with my monthly newsletter.I just said to dh that I need to put my foot down since I am their daycare provider...not their parent and it's making me crabby...his response was to run out and buy me brownies...

But returning to the topic...I told her he couldn't return for 48 hrs and needed a dr note as well...so...we'll see.
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:21 AM
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She wasn't even at work??!!

I'm seriously pissed at this Mom! I feel for you!
Yeah well sadly this isn't the first time she failed to mention it...she kept her older kids home from school due to all of them being miserably sick with a bad cold and tried hide it and told me that her two younger kids had allergies. Dcg ruined it for her by announcing her siblings were home sick with mommy and so I said something to dcm who shrugged it off...never mind the fact that her younger kids are around a baby and 1-2 year olds all day.
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:35 AM
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She was frustrated that he hasn't been better after over a week since ear tubes and adenoidectomy is "supposed to be a simple surgery" and she doesn't want to miss more work for this surgery. I get that and offered her to keep him home without having to pay for those days he's gone but if I send him home then she pays full price. So I just don't get it...I know missing work costs money too...but geez...

Also...how can I avoid her springing stuff on me in the middle of drop offs? Just say no to all last minute requests? I'm tempted to send out a message that all requests not made a minimum of 24 hours in advance will not be honored. I know with experience I'll be able to rebuff her attempts to slip stuff by easier but lately she claims she forgot to tell me until the last minute...and it is frustrating that my inexperience with this is showing...
I agree with BC- he shouldn't have been there in the first place. And not to sound harsh but he will be there as long as you allow it.
Don't punish others because of one moms behavior- have one more conversation with this mom about what you will allow. Whatever you decide that to be. It would be a good idea to write it down and both of you keep a copy- it can be specific to this issue. Then if she drops off and asks for anything you didn't agree to turn her and dcb away at the door.
It is not typical for him to have a low grade fever or pain still- so he should be getting one on one care so that his needs are best met and he can be observed for any further changes- she decided to have him... She needs to take care of him!
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:37 AM
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I think probably the reason he is taking so long to recover is because right off the bat, she sent him to daycare instead of resting at home. I'm sure it set him back by quite a bit. He's a little kid, and being put under alone is a lot for his body to bounce back from, let alone the surgery, too.

It seems if he is running a fever, something else is wrong. Like the tubes are not healing or he got an infection in the incisions. Poor kid.

I guess I would just go over what my policy is for fever, unable to participate, etc. Are there are sick care places in your town she can take him to? More expensive but surely less than missing work.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:40 AM
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Look like me and familycare were thinking alike at the same time!
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:43 AM
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I agree with BC- he shouldn't have been there in the first place. And not to sound harsh but he will be there as long as you allow it.
Don't punish others because of one moms behavior- have one more conversation with this mom about what you will allow. Whatever you decide that to be. It would be a good idea to write it down and both of you keep a copy- it can be specific to this issue. Then if she drops off and asks for anything you didn't agree to turn her and dcb away at the door.
It is not typical for him to have a low grade fever or pain still- so he should be getting one on one care so that his needs are best met and he can be observed for any further changes- she decided to have him... She needs to take care of him!
Yes I was kicking myself as soon as she left for letting her blindside me again and he is at his home now. I don't intend to punish anyone else but I do feel I need to remind that requests for care need to happen the week prior to care as I feel I need to tighten up on this anyway. I'm still only a couple months into this so this all has been a learning experience for me and I've been writing this all down for my updated contract and handbook that I've been working on. I tried to prepare myself for everything but apparently I failed. I'm trying to make this better.

Hopefully the little guy will be better after resting 4 days at home.

Last edited by Kabob; 10-30-2013 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #20  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:49 AM
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I'm not a nurse. keep kid at home, don't want the liability.As for "special" request that I'm not ready for, standard answer is, "I will get back to you" or We don't do that, "We don't offer that service", "read my policies"
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:54 AM
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Look like me and familycare were thinking alike at the same time!
Ya know what they say about great minds!!
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:57 AM
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Yes I was kicking myself as soon as she left for letting her blindside me again and he is at his home now. I don't intend to punish anyone else but I do feel I need to remind that requests for care need to happen the week prior to care as I feel I need to tighten up on this anyway. I'm still only a couple months into this so this all has been a learning experience for me and I've been writing this all down for my updated contract and handbook that I've been working on. I tried to prepare myself for everything but apparently I failed. I'm trying to make this better.

Hopefully the little guy will be better after resting 4 days at home.
So new!! I dont think you can fully prepare for what parents do!!
You did good sending him home . Sounds like this mom is a piece of work!!
As for building a back bone you learn by mistakes a lot- we all have and still do! Just focus on some of the things you are 100% about (varies for each person I think) and practice with those- practice makes perfect! And never be afraid to say: as I got to thinking about.... I don't feel that is in my groups best interest
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  #23  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:57 AM
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Great idea except she works for her son's dr. When he was running a fever and had a terribly goopy eye, I required a dr note and the note said word for word what dcm claimed it was and that he could continue care. When I commented on it and that he still needed to go home, she got mad because she said she had a note. I wouldn't put it past her to have the dr fill it out to her satisfaction.

On a side note...can I see this form?
Sure can. It doesn't leave a spot for mom to input what she wants. It simply has MY observations on it and he dr answers the sections. I have kind of a template that I tweak for certain situations. Pm me your email and I'll shoot he template over
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:11 AM
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So new!! I dont think you can fully prepare for what parents do!!
You did good sending him home . Sounds like this mom is a piece of work!!
As for building a back bone you learn by mistakes a lot- we all have and still do! Just focus on some of the things you are 100% about (varies for each person I think) and practice with those- practice makes perfect! And never be afraid to say: as I got to thinking about.... I don't feel that is in my groups best interest
Yeah...and boy have I been learning. It's been nice to come here to get "back up" so I know I'm not expecting too much...it seems I'm not being tough enough.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:11 AM
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Sure can. It doesn't leave a spot for mom to input what she wants. It simply has MY observations on it and he dr answers the sections. I have kind of a template that I tweak for certain situations. Pm me your email and I'll shoot he template over
Thank you!
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:18 AM
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Thank you!
I sent the PDF and the word doc you can edit.

The PDF is easy to email to parents so they can print off also or to email it to he doctors office which I've done before.
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  #27  
Old 10-30-2013, 12:07 PM
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I am hopefully going to be open within a couple weeks.. just waiting for my final inspection from ocfs. I did take the medical administration training so that I would be cleared by nys to give medicine to kids if needed.. but... only with written permission from the parents & the same from the doctor. Now even if I have both of these forms in my hands filled out correctly, its still my call. The paperwork says I am allowed to, not that I have to. In this case I wouldn't. The child would be home until he was fever free for 24 hours without medicine.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:15 PM
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Yeah well of course she sent a message saying she took dcb to dr and he is perfectly normal and got a note clearing him to return today so she wants to send him back. Seriously...he's been on ibuprofen nonstop and still has a low grade fever. I don't classify that as normal...
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:21 PM
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Yeah well of course she sent a message saying she took dcb to dr and he is perfectly normal and got a note clearing him to return today so she wants to send him back. Seriously...he's been on ibuprofen nonstop and still has a low grade fever. I don't classify that as normal...
I'd let him come back, no medicine for a few hours or into the afternoon and then take his temp if any behavior or actions from him seems to warrent it. If a fever is there, call mom and tell her to come get him. And with my fever free for 24 hours rule she can't bring him again til Monday
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:43 PM
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Yeah well of course she sent a message saying she took dcb to dr and he is perfectly normal and got a note clearing him to return today so she wants to send him back. Seriously...he's been on ibuprofen nonstop and still has a low grade fever. I don't classify that as normal...
The reason why the dr have to fill out MY forms is because parents rarely tell the dr the whole story so that dr has to make a decision based on partial information.

On my form I would have put about discomfort, irritability, fever, around the clock ibuprofene to.

I also would have required the visit to be with the surgeon not pediatrician.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:00 PM
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The reason why the dr have to fill out MY forms is because parents rarely tell the dr the whole story so that dr has to make a decision based on partial information.

On my form I would have put about discomfort, irritability, fever, around the clock ibuprofene to.

I also would have required the visit to be with the surgeon not pediatrician.
Great idea!
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  #32  
Old 10-30-2013, 02:59 PM
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The reason why the dr have to fill out MY forms is because parents rarely tell the dr the whole story so that dr has to make a decision based on partial information.

On my form I would have put about discomfort, irritability, fever, around the clock ibuprofene to.

I also would have required the visit to be with the surgeon not pediatrician.
Thank you! Now I can use this the next time I have to send a kiddo home. I feel like she must have left out crucial details from that appt. My son is going to get the same surgery by the same dr and he said that my son should not participate in daycare for 2-3 days and if he is running a low fever for more than 48 hours he should come back to the clinic. So now I feel better for sending him home even if she says he's fine. Dcd picked up dcb's sister and agreed that dcb has not been happy and is happy I was being safe.

I decided not to let him return until Monday. Seems harsh but I feel like this has been going on for too long. Every time I give it a chance it just gets worse...
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:04 PM
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Thank you! Now I can use this the next time I have to send a kiddo home. I feel like she must have left out crucial details from that appt. My son is going to get the same surgery by the same dr and he said that my son should not participate in daycare for 2-3 days and if he is running a low fever for more than 48 hours he should come back to the clinic. So now I feel better for sending him home even if she says he's fine. Dcd picked up dcb's sister and agreed that dcb has not been happy and is happy I was being safe.

I decided not to let him return until Monday. Seems harsh but I feel like this has been going on for too long. Every time I give it a chance it just gets worse...
Your very welcome!! In my experience, parents often and on purpose manipulate the dr into writing a return to daycare excuse. Sometimes they write up what they want and the dr blindly signs it. I'm an RN. I know exactly how doctors (and crazy parents) are.

That's why I developed my form. And that's why in my handbook I reserve the right to contact a physician to discuss a diagnosis as well. And I've done that ONCE.

It's prob for the best he will be out until Monday. Hopefully he gets a little tlc or rest etc that he needs to come back in good shape Monday.
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