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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>What Would You Do In This Situation??
jenboo 02:15 PM 03-19-2014
I had a new DCG start last week. She is 3 months old and ive had her brother since he was 4 months old.
Dcg is on a great schedule! Two 2 hour naps a day, sleeps through the night..gets put in bed awake so she falls asleep on her own...scheduled feedings. A dream baby....BUT.....dun dun dun
She doesn't sleep on her back.
She sleeps on her stomach at home. This is only week two so I know it is going to take time but I feel so sad for her!
She is so exhausted right now! She has been crying for 2 hours off and on. Her voice is getting really raspy...I'm stuck because I am not comfortable with her crying so much at such a young age (especially because I know it is because she is tired) but there is nothing i can do. When she gets this exhausted, I run out of ideas. If I hold her, she falls asleep, if I put her in the swing she falls sleep, if we try to do tummy time she falls asleep. If i put her in the crib she screams. Since I am licensed, she can only sleep in a crib on her back.

Any tips for the transition? If i could just let her sleep on her tummy, she would be asleep in 30 sec and sleep for her whole nap time. Every one I talk to just tells me to break the regulations but I don't want to do that.
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grandmom 02:36 PM 03-19-2014
Tell the mom is she wants her child to succeed in care, she must sleep on her back at home.
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Blackcat31 02:44 PM 03-19-2014
Does your state allow a parent to sign a waiver?

In my state (not sure about currently) we are allowed to have parents sign a form (I think it's called a parent directive) that states that their child DOES sleep on their tummy and that they are giving the provider permission to do the same.

I know parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing but I don't view this as the "wrong thing"....just a "not the safest thing"...kwim?
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SilverSabre25 02:44 PM 03-19-2014
Can she roll on her own?

Can mom get a signed medical release saying it's okay?

From everything I've studied, babies are safest when allowed to sleep in the position to which they are accustomed/most comfortable, i.e a baby is in more danger when being flipped suddenly to back when they are accustomed to sleeping on their tummy, than if they stayed on their tummy, if you follow that.

Failing either of those, try a nice, tight swaddle and a pacifier with white noise.
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nannyde 02:47 PM 03-19-2014
Ridiculous that she was put in child care when she can only sleep in a dangerous position. Tell the parents to get her flat on her back immediately. If she has yo scream herself hoarse then so be it. A crying baby is an alive baby.

Did you tell them in the interview she must sleep on her back without motion? In my state a baby must sleep on their back in a playpen or crib. No holding them, no slings, no rocker, no belly.

Thank goodness for that reg. It takes the rock to sleep and sling option off the table. Im so grateful for it.
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SilverSabre25 02:48 PM 03-19-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:

I know parents can't give you permission to do the wrong thing but I don't view this as the "wrong thing"....just a "not the safest thing"...kwim?
I wish I could remember the source....but I know it wasn't something frufru. I have read that studies indicate that babies naturally prefer the position that is safest for them as an individual and that suddenly changing or forcing a change (such as being switched to on their back at daycare, or even on their tummy at daycare if they back-sleep at home) puts them in MORE danger than they would be in otherwise. So, a baby that is happiest on their tummy may in fact be safest there, all other things (sleeping surface, room temp, medical conditions, etc) being equal.

My daughter has been a side sleeper literally since she was born (would roll onto her side to sleep even in the hospital).
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jenboo 03:05 PM 03-19-2014
She cant roll over yet. Brother was the same way (tummy sleeper) but i nannied him so I could allow him to sleep anyway he wanted. I just feel like im torturing her since she will sleep no problem on her tummy but I can't let her do that.
Im not sure if there is a waiver here (besides a dr signing one for a medical reason).
I forgot to tell them until a couple weeks before she started (no interview since I already was caring for her brother).
They actually weren't planning on coming back after she was born because of the commute (30 min one way) but after a bunch of interviews they said I spoiled them. They can't find anything they like (nanny or home daycare)...SO they travel 2 hours a day total out of their way to drop off/pick up the kids)... I know it shouldn't be my problem but they are a great family!! If my child was sleeping through the night and taking two naps a day, I wouldn't want to change anything and end up with them screaming and not sleeping anymore.
Just wondering if there is anything I can do to help her transition better...I have tried the swaddle blankets/ sleep sacks but they dont make a difference.

Personally, I'm not sure what my view is for sleeping only on backs... I have read some research but not enough..its always changing. what isn't safe now will probably be safe in a couple years.
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hwichlaz 03:11 PM 03-19-2014
I'd start teaching her how to roll over. Once she's rolling over, you can put her down on her back and she'll switch herself. Most are doing it by 4 months, so you're almost there.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 03:51 PM 03-19-2014
All that I have read seems to indicate that it is due to the sleeping surface not them smothering that causes them to die on their belly. Kids on reused mattresses had a much higher rate of SIDS in their cribs. There is a company that sells mattress covers in another country and none of the tummy sleeping infants on them have died of SIDS.

http://babymattresscovers.com
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jenboo 06:28 PM 03-19-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
All that I have read seems to indicate that it is due to the sleeping surface not them smothering that causes them to die on their belly. Kids on reused mattresses had a much higher rate of SIDS in their cribs. There is a company that sells mattress covers in another country and none of the tummy sleeping infants on them have died of SIDS.

http://babymattresscovers.com
thats very interesting!
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Cat Herder 03:58 AM 03-20-2014
I can't believe in this day and age a parent would be so irresponsible as to TEACH their infant to sleep on their belly.

How else would a non-mobile infant "prefer" to sleep on their belly.

Once the child can safely roll over on it's own, with neck muscles strong enough to reposition if needed, then it would be acceptable. Until then, It is nothing more than a selfish adult choice.

No cry parenting at it's worst.
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nannyde 06:48 AM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I can't believe in this day and age a parent would be so irresponsible as to TEACH their infant to sleep on their belly.

How else would a non-mobile infant "prefer" to sleep on their belly.

Once the child can safely roll over on it's own, with neck muscles strong enough to reposition if needed, then it would be acceptable. Until then, It is nothing more than a selfish adult choice.

No cry parenting at it's worst.
It is.

A waiver doesn't help. A waiver means that the child has to be right next to you at all times they are sleeping. Just because a Doc says the kid can belly sleep (which I would find incredibly odd if one did) it still doesn't keep the liability away if the kid dies. If they are sleeping in an unsafe position you have to watch EVERY rise and fall of their chest. No amount of money would get me to take on that liability.
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Blackcat31 06:55 AM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It is.

A waiver doesn't help. A waiver means that the child has to be right next to you at all times they are sleeping. Just because a Doc says the kid can belly sleep (which I would find incredibly odd if one did) it still doesn't keep the liability away if the kid dies. If they are sleeping in an unsafe position you have to watch EVERY rise and fall of their chest. No amount of money would get me to take on that liability.
This is what the Parent Sleep Directive for our state looks like

http://www.co.anoka.mn.us/v1_departm...epPosition.pdf

I honestly cannot remember but I want to say that some counties are no longer allowing this.

The form does require a doctor to sign it.

Personally, I've never had a parent request this or give me one but we used to have to include the form in all enrollment packets for parents.
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Cradle2crayons 06:57 AM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
It is.

A waiver doesn't help. A waiver means that the child has to be right next to you at all times they are sleeping. Just because a Doc says the kid can belly sleep (which I would find incredibly odd if one did) it still doesn't keep the liability away if the kid dies. If they are sleeping in an unsafe position you have to watch EVERY rise and fall of their chest. No amount of money would get me to take on that liability.
My daughters doctor recommended tummy sleeping for her from just a few weeks old... There was a certain contraption we used to prop her.

The reasoning was because of aspiration.

Here, in NICU, babies are placed on their tummies and when they get home, they scream on their backs.

OP, I would check with licensing on a waiver in case that's an option.
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FCCarmyprovider 06:57 AM 03-20-2014
Military regs don't allow any child under 12 months on their tummy bc of SIDS. The best solution I have found is just speak with the parent about the risk of SIDS and the statistics of how much more likely it is for baby to die of SIDS in dc. I just had my annual safety training and I did not like the numbers they showed me. Better on her back than have something happen to her.
good luck
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CraftyMom 07:13 AM 03-20-2014
I wouldn't want any part of it! I can't even imagine finding a dead baby The very thought is enough!
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jenboo 07:38 AM 03-20-2014
Once again, I am not asking if you think the parents are making a good decision for their baby or not. I'm not asking about SIDS stats. I obviously cannot let her sleep on her tummy even if I wanted to.

I am asking for advice on how to help her learn to sleep on her back until she can roll over. Her issues are:
When she is on her back, she doesn't stop kicking her legs (when in the crib and on the floor playing)
When she turns her head to the sides, her binky falls out and wakes her up.
She hasn't really learned to suck on her fingers yet.

By the afternoon, she is so tired that she falls asleep everywhere except on her back in the crib. When she falls asleep, I have to move her to the crib. Thus, she wakes up and we start the cycle all over again.

I have tried swaddle sacks and sleep sacks. It doesn't seem to help much.

I was just wondering if anyone had any good advice on how to help her...Have you watched infants that would wake themselves up by their arm and leg movements? Did your child wake themselves up when their binky fell out of their mouth and didn't suck on their fingers yet?? What did you do??
I am not comfortable letting her scream for the 2 hours of nap time at such a young age.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just please don't respond if you dont have advice for helping her sleep.
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CraftyMom 07:55 AM 03-20-2014
Honestly, I'm not sure YOU can help her. Her parents created this and continue it at home. They would have to be completely on board and put her on her back at home for her to get accustomed to it. I would probably have a talk with the parents and let them know of your regulations and that this is how it has to be, either they get on board or they don't. They may have to look into other options for childcare

As far as the arms and legs that's difficult. I have a "Swaddle Me" swaddler and when it is on nice and snug the baby can not move their arms much, the legs are not snug though.
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Meyou 08:00 AM 03-20-2014
Can you swaddle her tightly with a normal thin blanket? One of my dd's would only sleep this way and it was mostly becuse she moved around so much on her back. She was a tummy sleeper from the second she could get herself into that position.

I never found the swaddlers worked very well. She needed her legs tight so we went with the old fashioned route. I don't know if this is possible with your rules though.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 08:36 AM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by jenboo:
Once again, I am not asking if you think the parents are making a good decision for their baby or not. I'm not asking about SIDS stats. I obviously cannot let her sleep on her tummy even if I wanted to.

I am asking for advice on how to help her learn to sleep on her back until she can roll over. Her issues are:
When she is on her back, she doesn't stop kicking her legs (when in the crib and on the floor playing)
When she turns her head to the sides, her binky falls out and wakes her up.
She hasn't really learned to suck on her fingers yet.

By the afternoon, she is so tired that she falls asleep everywhere except on her back in the crib. When she falls asleep, I have to move her to the crib. Thus, she wakes up and we start the cycle all over again.

I have tried swaddle sacks and sleep sacks. It doesn't seem to help much.

I was just wondering if anyone had any good advice on how to help her...Have you watched infants that would wake themselves up by their arm and leg movements? Did your child wake themselves up when their binky fell out of their mouth and didn't suck on their fingers yet?? What did you do??
I am not comfortable letting her scream for the 2 hours of nap time at such a young age.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just please don't respond if you dont have advice for helping her sleep.
This is my infant. Miracle sleep suit for startle reflex? Wubbanub paci animal so the paci stays on chest?
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EntropyControlSpecialist 08:37 AM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by CraftyMom:
Honestly, I'm not sure YOU can help her. Her parents created this and continue it at home. They would have to be completely on board and put her on her back at home for her to get accustomed to it. I would probably have a talk with the parents and let them know of your regulations and that this is how it has to be, either they get on board or they don't. They may have to look into other options for childcare

As far as the arms and legs that's difficult. I have a "Swaddle Me" swaddler and when it is on nice and snug the baby can not move their arms much, the legs are not snug though.
Snug legs leads to hip dysplasia which would be why it is loose.
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Childminder 08:47 AM 03-20-2014
Have you tried swaddling and are you allowed to in your state? Can you let her fall asleep on her tummy and then move her to her back? Start working on the rolling over, practice, she's old enough to do it. I've cared for children that can at 6 weeks and two months. The Back to Sleep campaign has you lay her down on her back but once they are able to turn over you do not have to go back in and turn them back over.R 400.1912 1 of 1
R 400.1912 (1-6)
Rationale
Technical Assistance
Consultation
07/01/2009
TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE AND CONSULTATION R 400.1912 FAMILY AND GROUP CHILD CARE HOMES
Infant supervision and sleeping.
(1) Infants, birth to 12 months of age, shall be placed on their backs for resting and sleeping.
(2) Infants unable to roll from their stomachs to their backs, and from their backs to their stomachs, when found facedown, shall be placed on their backs.
(3) If infants can easily turn over from their backs to their stom- achs, then they shall be initially placed on their backs, but allowed to adopt whatever position they prefer for sleeping.
(4) For an infant who cannot rest or sleep on her/his back due to disability or illness, the caregiver shall have written instructions, signed by a physician, detailing an alternative safe sleep position and/or other special sleeping arrangements for the infant. The car- egiver/assistant caregiver shall rest/sleep children in accordance with a physician's written instructions.
(5) Caregiving staff shall maintain supervision and monitor infants' breathing, sleep position, bedding, and possible signs of distress except as provided in R 400.1922.
(6) Video surveillance equipment and baby monitors shall not be used in place of subrule (5) of this rule.
Assures for the safety and well-being of infants as placing infants to sleep on their backs instead of their stomachs has been associated with a dramatic decrease in infant deaths.
Monitoring must be continual and must include visual observation of infants, with caregiving staff standing close enough to the infant to observe breathing patterns, sleep position and any signs of distress or discomfort.
It is recommended that the caregiver observe a sleeping infant fre- quently, every 15-20 minutes, to assure the infant is not in distress.
Resources include the following: National SIDS Resource Center and the Back to Sleep Campaign
- www.sidscenter.org. Local and state health departments. Tomorrow's Child - www.tomorrowschildmi.org or 1-800-331-7437. American Academy of Pediatrics - www.healthychildcare.org. Department of Human Services - www.michigan.gov/safesleep.
Refer to R 400.1916 for information on bedding and sleeping equip- ment.
STATE OF MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES

There are studies out that say if you have a fan in the room circulating the air it'll move the carbon dioxide away from the babies and not cause SIDs.
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/...ower-sids-risk

Here are a couple of handouts you could print out for the parents to read and encourage them to get on board.
http://www.healthychildcare.org/PDF/...esafesleep.pdf
http://www.healthychildcare.org/PDF/...tsafesleep.pdf
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Solandia 09:01 AM 03-20-2014
In my experience, a baby doesn't really learn to sleep on their back for naps only, if they still belly sleep @ home. Basically, it is just waiting until they learn to roll over and choose to sleep on their stomachs.

I would just make sure baby was getting his/her tummy time as play time (10-15 minutes at a time as part of their routine - I always did the EASY type of routine, even though I didn't know it has a name).

Not really the advice you are looking for, but while you can sleep train babies for naps @ daycare...i have never been able to back sleep train at daycare only.

"back to sleep" has been around almost 20 years. It isn't a recommendation that is going to go away anytime soon. It isn't a wishy-washy recommendation that changes every few years. The data supports back sleeping overwhelmingly.
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My3cents 09:14 AM 03-20-2014
Originally Posted by jenboo:
Once again, I am not asking if you think the parents are making a good decision for their baby or not. I'm not asking about SIDS stats. I obviously cannot let her sleep on her tummy even if I wanted to.

I am asking for advice on how to help her learn to sleep on her back until she can roll over. Her issues are:
When she is on her back, she doesn't stop kicking her legs (when in the crib and on the floor playing)
When she turns her head to the sides, her binky falls out and wakes her up.
She hasn't really learned to suck on her fingers yet.

By the afternoon, she is so tired that she falls asleep everywhere except on her back in the crib. When she falls asleep, I have to move her to the crib. Thus, she wakes up and we start the cycle all over again.

I have tried swaddle sacks and sleep sacks. It doesn't seem to help much.

I was just wondering if anyone had any good advice on how to help her...Have you watched infants that would wake themselves up by their arm and leg movements? Did your child wake themselves up when their binky fell out of their mouth and didn't suck on their fingers yet?? What did you do??
I am not comfortable letting her scream for the 2 hours of nap time at such a young age.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just please don't respond if you dont have advice for helping her sleep.
my advice would be to call your licensing and talk with parents. I don't know what to tell you- I don't think letting her scream for two hours is even an option- it wouldn't be for me. Licensing should be able to help you find a solution. Good luck~
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jenboo 08:07 AM 03-21-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
This is my infant. Miracle sleep suit for startle reflex? Wubbanub paci animal so the paci stays on chest?
I tried a woombie yesterday and it worked!! She slept for 2 and a half hours and only woke up a couple times! She put herself right back to sleep! I think the woombie made her feel more secure and it helped with keeping her arms and legs contained (she was still able to move everything so no worries about hip/leg issues).
The neck of the woombie even helped keep the binky from falling out!

I knew there was hope!
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jenboo 08:10 AM 03-21-2014
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
I'd start teaching her how to roll over. Once she's rolling over, you can put her down on her back and she'll switch herself. Most are doing it by 4 months, so you're almost there.
Great idea! I'm glad I was able to get her to sleep yesterday. We will start working on rolling over as well.
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TwinKristi 08:32 AM 03-21-2014
Originally Posted by jenboo:
I tried a woombie yesterday and it worked!! She slept for 2 and a half hours and only woke up a couple times! She put herself right back to sleep! I think the woombie made her feel more secure and it helped with keeping her arms and legs contained (she was still able to move everything so no worries about hip/leg issues).
The neck of the woombie even helped keep the binky from falling out!

I knew there was hope!
Glad to hear this!!
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Tags:back to sleep, infant nap, infant transition, no cry parenting, parental life choices, parental responsibility, provider accountability, sids prevention, suids
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