Daycare.com Forum
View Poll Results: Do you need to obtain permission from someone other than the state?
yes (please explain)
20
37.04%
no
34
62.96%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Are You Required To Ask County/City Or Township Municipalities....
Blackcat31 06:30 AM 09-13-2013
...for permission to obtain a child care license and run a family child care from your home?
In light of the thread where a provider was issued a cease and desist letter from her township, a poster asked if her state was the only one that required NOT only permission from the state but permission from the city/township and or county in order to obtain a license, certificate or permission to have a child care business in your home.
I hope I "asked" that correctly.
I am in MN and am ONLY required to apply to the state for a child care license, although the county is the one who does the inspection and paperwork and oversees that I follow the laws and regulations that the state has set forth. My city and/or township do not have a say.
In light of the thread where a provider was issued a cease and desist letter from her township, a poster asked if her state was the only one that required NOT only permission from the state but permission from the city/township and or county in order to obtain a license, certificate or permission to have a child care business in your home.
I hope I "asked" that correctly.
I am in MN and am ONLY required to apply to the state for a child care license, although the county is the one who does the inspection and paperwork and oversees that I follow the laws and regulations that the state has set forth. My city and/or township do not have a say.
Cat Herder 06:45 AM 09-13-2013
Here the State licenses, inspects, trains and enforces compliance of all childcare centers, group homes and family care homes. 
2 votes with 17 views?? It is just a click button, guys.... doesn't hurt much at all.
2 votes with 17 views?? It is just a click button, guys.... doesn't hurt much at all.
GabsKids 06:52 AM 09-13-2013
Thanks Blackcat for starting the poll. I am very interested to see what steps other providers need to to take to run a daycare home. Again just to clarify, in Pennsylvania this is the breakdown.
We have 4 different categories.
1) no license or regulation, allowed 3 children.
2) Regulated Family Child Care Home, up to 6 children. Inspection and/or permit required from municipality. Once this is obtained, the state is who issues the license and does further inspections as needed.
3) Group Daycare, up to 12 children. Same steps as Family, plus the state does a required yearly inspection.
4) Daycare Center, to care for more than 12 children. Same steps to obtain and maintain as Group.
My township did not have a Group definition in their ordinance, only Family and Center, therefore, they wouldn't allow it. So I wonder why our state wants you to have permission from your township/borough/county. They oversee everything else.
We have 4 different categories.
1) no license or regulation, allowed 3 children.
2) Regulated Family Child Care Home, up to 6 children. Inspection and/or permit required from municipality. Once this is obtained, the state is who issues the license and does further inspections as needed.
3) Group Daycare, up to 12 children. Same steps as Family, plus the state does a required yearly inspection.
4) Daycare Center, to care for more than 12 children. Same steps to obtain and maintain as Group.
My township did not have a Group definition in their ordinance, only Family and Center, therefore, they wouldn't allow it. So I wonder why our state wants you to have permission from your township/borough/county. They oversee everything else.
Sugar Magnolia 06:59 AM 09-13-2013
Oops, you might want to ignore my "yes" vote, because I'm a center and you were asking about home daycare only. I had extensive city and county licensing process, in addition to state.
Memc2001 07:00 AM 09-13-2013
Yes, it is a required part of getting licensed. That is the first step.
MCC 07:01 AM 09-13-2013
I'm in Virginia, the State says we can operate with less than 5 children (excluding our own) without a license. However, there are about 5 counties in VA that require either a permit or a license, and I live in one of those counties.
I had to get county approval, including a fire inspection that, in my opinion, was ridiculous. Anyone else not aloud to have extension cords? like none at all in my entire house! This is where we had to put the most money and time into getting ready for licensing. We had to have things re-wired, piles of wood moved further away from the house, added outlets in the playroom, etc... bla.
After the fire inspection is it pretty smooth, CPS check, Criminal history, and then an online training (3 hours), and then an in person training (5hours).
In VA we are aloud to have 12 children if we are licensed, however MY county just changed down to 5 total, excluding your own. I have heard from some providers in my county that the State trumps the county, and from some that the county trumps the State. I have my inspection coming up with the State and I am REALLY hoping that I get good news and get to have a license for 12.
I had to get county approval, including a fire inspection that, in my opinion, was ridiculous. Anyone else not aloud to have extension cords? like none at all in my entire house! This is where we had to put the most money and time into getting ready for licensing. We had to have things re-wired, piles of wood moved further away from the house, added outlets in the playroom, etc... bla.
After the fire inspection is it pretty smooth, CPS check, Criminal history, and then an online training (3 hours), and then an in person training (5hours).
In VA we are aloud to have 12 children if we are licensed, however MY county just changed down to 5 total, excluding your own. I have heard from some providers in my county that the State trumps the county, and from some that the county trumps the State. I have my inspection coming up with the State and I am REALLY hoping that I get good news and get to have a license for 12.
Blackcat31 07:02 AM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Oops, you might want to ignore my "yes" vote, because I'm a center and you were asking about home daycare only. I had extensive city and county licensing process, in addition to state.
No, I think it's important to look at ALL types of child cares....after all, we all have rules/regs to follow so center info is important too! Oops, you might want to ignore my "yes" vote, because I'm a center and you were asking about home daycare only. I had extensive city and county licensing process, in addition to state.
kelsey's kids 07:13 AM 09-13-2013
Idaho each county is different and different laws are enforced within them. It can get a little confusing beacuse state and city will disagree. I have to get both city and state licensed. The biggest difference is with state you dont have to have overhead fire sprinklers unless your building is so big or you watch more than 18 kids. And in my city you have to have overhead sprinklers if you watch more than 4 kids including your own.
mamac 07:14 AM 09-13-2013
I voted no but to be honest I'm really not 100% sure. When I called my city clerk to ask about the requirements for registering my business she told me I needed to speak with the health inspector (because I would be serving food)and the building inspector and get approved by them first. I assumed that I had all the inspections necessary through the EEC state inspection so I never really followed through with any further phone calls. I also have my doubts that she even knew what she was talking about. I didn't end up registering my business through the city on the advice of my state attorney general so she may have been correct. I don't think my city could tell me I couldn't have a daycare as long as I got the necessary inspections, if that was really required.
AcornMama 07:17 AM 09-13-2013
I voted yes because the first thing the state tells us to do is to check with our local zoning regulations and possible restrictive covenants in neigbhorhoods. So, while town or county zoning doesn't necessarily have to issue us a written permission, we do have to make sure we're not violating anything.
For example, where I am, I'm technically outside of the town limits but still within the town's "extra territorial jurisdiction" for zoning. So I had to go to the town to clear things with zoning. They gave me the regulations for operating a home occupation within the town zoning area. These are the same limits for anyone operating a business from their home. It mostly deals with how early and late a business can operate from a residential home, limits offensive sounds or odors, and limits how many clients can be at your home at the same time. This is for traffic control in residential areas.
For me, the only thing that really affects me is the limit on the number of clients in the home at the same time. The town gave me approval that this is to limit the number of people dropping off and picking up at the same time, not the total number of children in my care. So I have to make sure I don't have more than 3 drop-offs or pick-ups happening at the same time.
If I were just a little bit down the road, I wouldn't have had to go to zoning at all, because county zoning allows for childcare to be an acceptable use of a residence.
For example, where I am, I'm technically outside of the town limits but still within the town's "extra territorial jurisdiction" for zoning. So I had to go to the town to clear things with zoning. They gave me the regulations for operating a home occupation within the town zoning area. These are the same limits for anyone operating a business from their home. It mostly deals with how early and late a business can operate from a residential home, limits offensive sounds or odors, and limits how many clients can be at your home at the same time. This is for traffic control in residential areas.
For me, the only thing that really affects me is the limit on the number of clients in the home at the same time. The town gave me approval that this is to limit the number of people dropping off and picking up at the same time, not the total number of children in my care. So I have to make sure I don't have more than 3 drop-offs or pick-ups happening at the same time.
If I were just a little bit down the road, I wouldn't have had to go to zoning at all, because county zoning allows for childcare to be an acceptable use of a residence.
sharlan 07:30 AM 09-13-2013
I didn't have to go through the city for my small daycare license (max 8). Evidently for a large license, the city gets involved and they charge a really hefty fee and you have to have environmental/traffic studies.
Leigh 08:29 AM 09-13-2013
My city requires a license. My state does not. My state told me that my city's license requirement is not enforceable, and that I needn't bother with it.
Brooksie 08:32 AM 09-13-2013
I need approval from the towns zoning commission to obtain a license through the state. I HAVE to be approved through them before MSDE will even look at my application for childcare registration. Its not hard though.
Unregistered 08:36 AM 09-13-2013
....but we also must have an occupancy permit from local borough to run the business. This is a one time permit for any center or in home day cares in our area.
Willow 08:38 AM 09-13-2013
I've lived in a township they had no additional requirements beyond what the state/county requests.....training, fire marshal inspection, background check and county licensing inspection.
I've also lived in a neighborhood with "covenants." They had stipulations like if you are required to fence it couldn't be chain link, but it's my understanding they couldn't say you coulfnt operate a small un-imposing business out of your home because it would infringe on an individual persons rights per the constitution.
I've also lived in a neighborhood with "covenants." They had stipulations like if you are required to fence it couldn't be chain link, but it's my understanding they couldn't say you coulfnt operate a small un-imposing business out of your home because it would infringe on an individual persons rights per the constitution.
originalkat 09:07 AM 09-13-2013
We have to get a Home Occupation License from the city zoning office. Then we have to mail a copy of it in with our initial license to show the area we live in allows home daycares.
Heidi 09:09 AM 09-13-2013
Family childcare (less than 8 children) cannot be restricted by any local municipalities per state law (same as the poster last week). Group childcare must obtain commercial zoning and the applicable inspections. It would also be subject to local ordinances and neighborhood covenants.
Local covenants and townships (like ours) can however, restrict signage. So, even though I can run my daycare without a problem, I cannot put a sign out permanently. I could, however, leave my car parked in the driveway with signs on it if I wanted to...
I don't have car signs though.
Local covenants and townships (like ours) can however, restrict signage. So, even though I can run my daycare without a problem, I cannot put a sign out permanently. I could, however, leave my car parked in the driveway with signs on it if I wanted to...
I don't have car signs though.
MarinaVanessa 11:02 AM 09-13-2013
I'm in CA and although you don't need to ask permission from a landlord to care for 6 children or less you do have to have permission if you will care for more than six. In my city/county we don't have to get permission to run FCC from our homes but in a section of a city near me (8 minutes away) you have to get permission if you will have a large license. I hear it's costly too, somewhere along the lines of $7-$10K and you don't have a guarantee that you'll get approved even after spending all of that $$$. I hear that there are no large FCC homes in that section of the city ... no kidding. It's weird too because it's only a section of the city but everywhere else in the city it's fine and you don't need to have approval.
Childminder 11:02 AM 09-13-2013
Township approval is required for group home (6-12) but not for family home (under 6 children) and this is up to each local governing agency here in Michigan. So... as a group I could live in another county or township and not need the approval.
snbauser 11:12 AM 09-13-2013
I voted no. Here in NC we can watch 2 unrelated to us without a license. We can watch 5 total or 5 preschool + 3 school aged depending on where you live and neither require the approval of city/town/etc - at least not in my town. I do believe there are some towns that do require it though. But if you live in a subdivision with and HOA, you do need to have HOA approval for the 5 or 8. If you want to expand to a larger group in your home (here it's called a Center in a Residence) you can go up to 12 but you need approval the same as any other center would - zoning, fire, sanitation, etc before licensing.
Sugar Magnolia 11:27 AM 09-13-2013
Just wanted to add.....in FL, HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS rules are king. Even if the city and county approve everything, the HOA can kill anything. It's ridiculous..... They are like mini fiefdoms. Grrrr. I live in deed restricted community (not my center, it's downtown) and they'd sick a lawyer on me quicker than lightning if I tried doing home daycare.
LK5kids 12:42 PM 09-13-2013
No, unless you are not living in the home. My community has nothing on the books concerning FCC if you are not living there. If your city has an ordinance in regard to operating a FCC in a home that you do not live in, you have to get it cleared by your city. State law states If you do reside in the home it can not be disputed.
craftymissbeth 12:49 PM 09-13-2013
We don't have to ask, but our city does have specific restrictions that licensing does not.
For example, our regulations do not specify that we must actually live in the home we provide care in, but the city does. So we can't rent a home exclusively for a daycare.
Although, my licensor did subtly suggest staging a rented home to look lived in
For example, our regulations do not specify that we must actually live in the home we provide care in, but the city does. So we can't rent a home exclusively for a daycare.
Although, my licensor did subtly suggest staging a rented home to look lived in
itlw8 02:21 PM 09-13-2013
I don't but I do have to have a business license in my town $25 a year
next town over they do have to get permission sometimes they can only have limited children. I think it is based on parking.
next town over they do have to get permission sometimes they can only have limited children. I think it is based on parking.
Margarete 07:07 PM 09-13-2013
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I'm in CA and although you don't need to ask permission from a landlord to care for 6 children or less you do have to have permission if you will care for more than six. In my city/county we don't have to get permission to run FCC from our homes but in a section of a city near me (8 minutes away) you have to get permission if you will have a large license. I hear it's costly too, somewhere along the lines of $7-$10K and you don't have a guarantee that you'll get approved even after spending all of that $$$. I hear that there are no large FCC homes in that section of the city ... no kidding. It's weird too because it's only a section of the city but everywhere else in the city it's fine and you don't need to have approval.
Ouch, on the cost, and then not approving anyone. I'm in California too, I heard that for large family child care approval it's different everywhere. Also in California you can't run a 'family child care home' in a house you are not living in. It has to be a 'center' at that point and you have to follow all the rules as such.I'm in CA and although you don't need to ask permission from a landlord to care for 6 children or less you do have to have permission if you will care for more than six. In my city/county we don't have to get permission to run FCC from our homes but in a section of a city near me (8 minutes away) you have to get permission if you will have a large license. I hear it's costly too, somewhere along the lines of $7-$10K and you don't have a guarantee that you'll get approved even after spending all of that $$$. I hear that there are no large FCC homes in that section of the city ... no kidding. It's weird too because it's only a section of the city but everywhere else in the city it's fine and you don't need to have approval.
Mister Sir Husband 07:20 PM 09-13-2013
I had to be licenced through the state, but my local town kinda needed to give permission as far as zoning was concerned. It wasn't any big deal, in fact was only a review of my location to confirm that traffic patterns and such wouldn't be an issue.
Laurel 02:03 AM 09-14-2013
In Florida we have a state law that guarantees that we can have a home child care but each county is different in what it requires.
In some you don't have to be licensed, some you just have to be registered, and some licensed. Our county has one of the strictest and we need to be licensed. Our county adds some of their own rules onto the basic state rules (I think) and they inspect and license us.
However, if we want a large family childcare (twice the number of children and two providers) then it is up to each city/county. Some allow them and some don't.
I may only watch one child or two children from the same family without a license.
Laurel
P.S. I always think it sounds weird when someone on here will say they are not licensed or they are considering whether to get licensed or not. I wish we had a choice! I get jealous, lol.
In some you don't have to be licensed, some you just have to be registered, and some licensed. Our county has one of the strictest and we need to be licensed. Our county adds some of their own rules onto the basic state rules (I think) and they inspect and license us.
However, if we want a large family childcare (twice the number of children and two providers) then it is up to each city/county. Some allow them and some don't.
I may only watch one child or two children from the same family without a license.
Laurel
P.S. I always think it sounds weird when someone on here will say they are not licensed or they are considering whether to get licensed or not. I wish we had a choice! I get jealous, lol.
Luvnmykidz 08:35 PM 09-14-2013
I voted yes. I live in Maryland, so it's the same as Brooksie stated.
Laurel 06:02 AM 09-15-2013
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Just wanted to add.....in FL, HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS rules are king. Even if the city and county approve everything, the HOA can kill anything. It's ridiculous..... They are like mini fiefdoms. Grrrr. I live in deed restricted community (not my center, it's downtown) and they'd sick a lawyer on me quicker than lightning if I tried doing home daycare.
Are you sure?Just wanted to add.....in FL, HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS rules are king. Even if the city and county approve everything, the HOA can kill anything. It's ridiculous..... They are like mini fiefdoms. Grrrr. I live in deed restricted community (not my center, it's downtown) and they'd sick a lawyer on me quicker than lightning if I tried doing home daycare.
I am in Southeast Florida and belong to a Homeowner's Association. It just may not object but if it did I would think a state law (which I have a copy of) would trump a homeowner's association.
If our homeowner's association said No, I'd have to check with the state attorney.
Laurel
jenn 10:42 AM 09-15-2013
I have a state license and a city license. However, after originally obtaining the city one it's basically just a send in your money and we send you a license yearly thing.
melilley 10:50 AM 09-15-2013
Originally Posted by Childminder:
Township approval is required for group home (6-12) but not for family home (under 6 children) and this is up to each local governing agency here in Michigan. So... as a group I could live in another county or township and not need the approval.
Same here. I have a family home and I only had to get a license through the state and my township said that I didn't need anything from them. Licensing does say that you do have to check with your city or township about zoning first.Township approval is required for group home (6-12) but not for family home (under 6 children) and this is up to each local governing agency here in Michigan. So... as a group I could live in another county or township and not need the approval.