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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Extreme Anxiety
daycarediva 06:25 AM 05-05-2017
I have a child, 4.5, has been here for 2 years. When the child started, 1-2 days/week she had a HUGE issue with separating from parents. Cried for a good hour every time. Parents said it happened at home, too. With Mom, Dad, grandparents and sitters. Then had a hard time eating, playing, etc. We discussed a child psych consult. Parents saw it as typical separation anxiety (imho it was NOT) It improved enough for me to stick it out. At only 1-2x/week it was manageable.

On days child attended, my program was tweaked. Outside time was reduced-child was afraid of everything- grass, worms, sunburns, frostbite, snow, cars driving by, bugs flying, you name it. She spent the majority of outside play at the door. I had to prep EVERYTHING in advance. IF I left the room to pee- child would SCREAM at the top of her lungs and was difficult to console.

I REALLY worked with her- and it was improving - slowly. I AGAIN suggested more days. Parents FINALLY agreed in Sept of this year to more days (for the prek ONLY since she was 4)

Attendance went to FT. Child changed overnight. Literally within a week child was not crying at drop off, having to be pulled out of here at the end of the day, happy all day, no issues.

Until this week. NOTHING has changed here (except for another child's parents divorcing-but the worst of that is over for the other dck)

Now she's back to original behavior, only she is FT. I again, suggested a psychologist get involved, as I have exhausted all of my avenues. I also feel that some of it it could very well be attention seeking behavior. When she is upset- she is babied beyond belief. It is at home, too. Parents can't leave the room, go to bed, bathroom, etc. without a total meltdown. This child's ENTIRE day is spent so worried and anxious she is having BM accidents, stomachaches, headaches, can't eat, sleep, you name it.

I am done at the end of June, so parents will be receiving notice the first of June anyway.

ANY ideas? The parents are on board with suggestions, and have been reading books about parents leaving and coming back, missing parents, feeling scared, sad, worried, etc etc. They already have a goodbye outside routine, but after it, I just take dcg because she gets increasingly worked up and will NEVER calm down with either parent present. I feel like drawing more attention to it is only making it worse, but parents REFUSE to believe it's anything more than separation anxiety, and that she will outgrow it, it is just 'how she is', proof of how great a bond she has with them ( opposite, IMHO-well bonded children don't have issues separating!) etc

I have already flat out said that she will not do well in K or larger Prek settings. We can't have fire drills without a week of her worrying about fires (and screaming over the alarm) she cannot handle men/other teachers/strangers, she cannot do ANYTHING alone, so walking down the hall to her classroom, or from the classroom to the restroom? OH HECK NO.

Things I've tried-

reassurance (she just continues to bring up worries, it's NEVER ENDING)
separating until calm (she cannot calm down, so she will sit there ALL DAY)
ignoring (I won't give her any attention when screaming, I will speak to her like nothing ever happened when she's calm- seems to work the best, but now she tells her parents I'm mean, and they think it's cruel to ignore her cries but uh, she's always crying!)

and she's the oldest, and I have a 19mo who is FINE.
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Blackcat31 06:45 AM 05-05-2017
Honestly? I'd stop discussing it, talking about it, noticing it or even mentioning it.

I'd start being black and white about everything.

Do what you normally do and don't change things for her.
~I personally think there has already been way too much modification, editing and manipulation happening and the ONLY thing DCG is getting out of it is attention.

If her parents say there is no reason for a psych eval or a medical consult then she's normal. If she's normal, then I say it's time for a discussion with DCG about rules and expectations and what happens if those rules and expectations aren't followed. Consequences too.

If she gets so emotionally out of control that you aren't able to manage it (or it gets disruptive to the other kids) then call for pick up.

Just like you said in another thread about parents bullying providers in certain situations, I am soooo over parents that create anxiety ridden kids and then expect us to "fix" what they've done.

Right now YOU are the only one stressing and/or looking for a reasonable and logical solution to something that is only going to get worse as time goes on unless the PARENTS see AND understand how their actions (coddling, babying, pacifying etc) is affecting their child.

I say it a lot but it's worth repeating a lot too;

~"People will never change their behavior until it becomes an issue for them"
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daycarediva 07:18 AM 05-05-2017
PRECISELY what I needed to hear BC, thank you.


I feel I'm the one stressing because it's stressing ME out. The constant crying, which is literal sobbing like her puppy just died, is grating. I opened up the door between the playroom/rest of my house and have her in the dining room with table activities (with sight and sound monitoring thanks to the video camera I moved) So everyone else can get a break. It's EXHAUSTING.
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Josiegirl 07:20 AM 05-05-2017
While I agree with so much of BC's insight, you have to kind of look at it from dcg's perspective too. She has developed fears; whether they're irrational or not, to her they must be real.
What if you have the parents send in family photos and you could laminate them, make a family tree on the wall, or make her a book, or one idea I've seen online which I thought was so cool....use them in a sensory tub after laminating them. Or have mom/dad send in something of theirs that dcg can use as a touchstone, so to speak, something she can always hold onto to remind her mom/dad are close by.
Does she like to make-believe? You could make a mist spray and lightly spray it over her head(or something that doesn't freak her out Lol)and call it 'chase away your fears'(IDK, just thinking aloud here), her own personal Prozac mist.

I know it's just feeding into her anxiety more but someone also has to help her face her fears too. Might be the easiest way to handle it for another 6 weeks or so. Give her something super soft to cuddle and separate herself from the group. Or a sensory bottle she can watch to calm her down.
How many times has a parents made 'monster spray' to get rid of the night time monster in the closet?? I'm just thinking something like that might work.
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daycarediva 07:33 AM 05-05-2017
She's afraid of spray bottles. When I clean she hides. She no longer cries at the vacuum or my steam mop though.

If it exists, she's afraid of it. The most fearful child I have ever known. EXTREME anxiety.

I have brought her SO SO FAR though. She touched a worm, digs in dirt, plays with chalk, fingerpaints, doesn't scream (but does move- FAST) if she sees bugs, etc.

I WOULD have had her pretty ready for K, but 1. I'm leaving and 2. there has been a HUGE regression in her progress. Nothing has changed here, and parents say nothing at home so... ?

I don't allow items from home but she does have a lovey that's left here she drags everywhere, we have a family board with photos (which I considered moving as she hyper fixates on it and will just stare at it and cry "mommy" over and over again.

At 4.5, It's insane to me that they don't see how unusual it is. They don't bring her places like parents typically do- stores, easter egg hunts, library, parks. She freaks. Another dcm is friends with this dcm (and is a child psychologist) and has stopped all play dates because dcm brought it up, psych dcm offered a referral (instead of telling her she's fine) and dcm didn't want to hear that.
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NeedaVaca 07:37 AM 05-05-2017
The fact that you are stressing out and exhausted from this I would honestly just term. You have tried everything and asked the parents on more than one occasion to seek an evaluation or professional help and they evidently aren't as concerned as you are. I don't think it's fair to you or the other children in your care to listen to her crying/screaming or the rearranging of so much of your program.

I agree with much of what BC said but for me rather than deal with calling for constant pick ups and conversation with the parents that would ensue I would just be done. I know you are done at the end of June anyway but why be miserable for the next couple of months?
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Blackcat31 07:47 AM 05-05-2017
I felt the need to elaborate on my response/advice

I totally agree with Josie's suggestions for managing anxiety.... IF this were a different type of "anxiety issue" but I don't believe it is.

Because the parents are in denial about THEIR child.

I know we, as providers, often times feel we can fix the issues parents cant but this isn't one of those cases....the parents are clearly aware of DCG's issues (and they are parent created not medical) and they refuse to have her evaluated because they don't see the issue...why don't they see the issue? Because they coddle and give in.

NO WHERE else in daycare girls life are things going to happen that way for her. The kindy teacher isn't going to coddle or change her world just so she can be happy and not stressed. Kids NEED to learn how to deal with stress but dealing with stress verses just having the stressor removed from sight etc.
(I wish it worked that way....I am afraid of spiders but they aren't going to just disappear because I have anxiety about them. Even if DH moves every one I see, it isn't going to erase my fear)


I also agree that someone does have to help DCG face her fears but it doesn't have to be the provider.
We don't have to be the cure all, end all and ultimate fixer for every childhood issue that comes before us.

We can't be all for everyone.

~Diva made the following statements:

I feel ALL of those are cues that tell me this situation needs to change.

My reasoning for not suggesting Diva be the one to "fix" this is because she said this:

"I feel like drawing more attention to it is only making it worse, but parents REFUSE to believe it's anything more than separation anxiety, and that she will outgrow it, it is just 'how she is', proof of how great a bond she has with them ( opposite, IMHO-well bonded children don't have issues separating!) etc"


So my question is "What lengths does a provider have to go to before she should reasonably and logically tap out?"

IF the parents were working WITH Diva, my answer would be completely different but I think the ONLY reason they are feigning ignorance now and attempt to do things differently is because they were told DCG wouldn't do well in Pre-K or K setting AND because it is now happening at home.
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debbiedoeszip 07:47 AM 05-05-2017
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
She's afraid of spray bottles. When I clean she hides. She no longer cries at the vacuum or my steam mop though.

If it exists, she's afraid of it. The most fearful child I have ever known. EXTREME anxiety.

I have brought her SO SO FAR though. She touched a worm, digs in dirt, plays with chalk, fingerpaints, doesn't scream (but does move- FAST) if she sees bugs, etc.

I WOULD have had her pretty ready for K, but 1. I'm leaving and 2. there has been a HUGE regression in her progress. Nothing has changed here, and parents say nothing at home so... ?

I don't allow items from home but she does have a lovey that's left here she drags everywhere, we have a family board with photos (which I considered moving as she hyper fixates on it and will just stare at it and cry "mommy" over and over again.

At 4.5, It's insane to me that they don't see how unusual it is. They don't bring her places like parents typically do- stores, easter egg hunts, library, parks. She freaks. Another dcm is friends with this dcm (and is a child psychologist) and has stopped all play dates because dcm brought it up, psych dcm offered a referral (instead of telling her she's fine) and dcm didn't want to hear that.
My DS (20yo now) had extreme anxiety as well (like dcg afraid of just about everything). Based on my experience and what therapists told me:

A. Don't modify your day so that she can avoid safe things that she is afraid of. Avoidance will only lead to either no progress or more fears. Look up "systematic desensitization" for tips on how to help her.

B. She DEFINITELY needs help from a psychologist or therapist. Definitely. And the sooner the better.
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Snowmom 08:12 AM 05-05-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I felt the need to elaborate on my response/advice

I totally agree with Josie's suggestions for managing anxiety.... IF this were a different type of "anxiety issue" but I don't believe it is.

Because the parents are in denial about THEIR child.

I know we, as providers, often times feel we can fix the issues parents cant but this isn't one of those cases....the parents are clearly aware of DCG's issues (and they are parent created not medical) and they refuse to have her evaluated because they don't see the issue...why don't they see the issue? Because they coddle and give in.

NO WHERE else in daycare girls life are things going to happen that way for her. The kindy teacher isn't going to coddle or change her world just so she can be happy and not stressed. Kids NEED to learn how to deal with stress but dealing with stress verses just having the stressor removed from sight etc.
(I wish it worked that way....I am afraid of spiders but they aren't going to just disappear because I have anxiety about them. Even if DH moves every one I see, it isn't going to erase my fear)


I also agree that someone does have to help DCG face her fears but it doesn't have to be the provider.
We don't have to be the cure all, end all and ultimate fixer for every childhood issue that comes before us.

We can't be all for everyone.

~Diva made the following statements:
  • I feel I'm the one stressing because it's stressing ME out.
  • constant crying is grating
  • It's EXHAUSTING.
  • So everyone else can get a break
  • On days child attended, my program was tweaked
  • Outside time was reduced
  • prep EVERYTHING in advance
  • was difficult to console
  • I have exhausted all of my avenues.

I feel ALL of those are cues that tell me this situation needs to change.

My reasoning for not suggesting Diva be the one to "fix" this is because she said this:

"I feel like drawing more attention to it is only making it worse, but parents REFUSE to believe it's anything more than separation anxiety, and that she will outgrow it, it is just 'how she is', proof of how great a bond she has with them ( opposite, IMHO-well bonded children don't have issues separating!) etc"


So my question is "What lengths does a provider have to go to before she should reasonably and logically tap out?"

IF the parents were working WITH Diva, my answer would be completely different but I think the ONLY reason they are feigning ignorance now and attempt to do things differently is because they were told DCG wouldn't do well in Pre-K or K setting AND because it is now happening at home.
100% agree with this.

I think the only way it's going to change is if the parents are proactive in getting her the help & guidance she needs to cope with life.

I'd be putting the problem back on them and calling for pick up when she has (bigger) episodes. During the smaller ones, I'd call mom and hand the phone to dcg and have mom do the work to settle her.
Believe me: I know it will probably make it worse for dcg to have her talk to mom- but that's the point. If mom has to deal with it- she may change her mind and get dcg professional help.
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daycarediva 08:25 AM 05-05-2017
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
The fact that you are stressing out and exhausted from this I would honestly just term. You have tried everything and asked the parents on more than one occasion to seek an evaluation or professional help and they evidently aren't as concerned as you are. I don't think it's fair to you or the other children in your care to listen to her crying/screaming or the rearranging of so much of your program.

I agree with much of what BC said but for me rather than deal with calling for constant pick ups and conversation with the parents that would ensue I would just be done. I know you are done at the end of June anyway but why be miserable for the next couple of months?
I have to give them 30 days notice, and it must be at the beginning of the tuition period, so the first of June is the only day I can give them notice. It literally started this week, of course, too late to give notice this month.

I have already told Mom if the crying lasts for 30 minutes I will call for pickup. I have had her picked up three times this week, at various points of the day. I really don't want to term immediately. I would like to give them enough notice to find good care for dcg.

Today is an improvement (slight, but I see it!) BUT the weekend will most likely destroy it. So terming is not an option.
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NeedaVaca 08:51 AM 05-05-2017
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I have to give them 30 days notice, and it must be at the beginning of the tuition period, so the first of June is the only day I can give them notice. It literally started this week, of course, too late to give notice this month.

I have already told Mom if the crying lasts for 30 minutes I will call for pickup. I have had her picked up three times this week, at various points of the day. I really don't want to term immediately. I would like to give them enough notice to find good care for dcg.

Today is an improvement (slight, but I see it!) BUT the weekend will most likely destroy it. So terming is not an option.
yeah, 30 days notice is a game changer good luck!
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Ariana 11:45 AM 05-05-2017
The fact that she was bad, then fine and now is bad again tells me that this is a learned behavior. I am not an expert but real anxiety is constant.

I agree with BlackCat on all points.
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Josiegirl 02:41 AM 05-06-2017
I get it now. It's just that I've never had a child with THAT much anxiety before. Yikes.
I've got a dcg right now that used to be afraid of all things loud, electric can opener, mixer, blender, trucks, lawn mower, vacuum cleaner. She's so much better at 3 1/2. I used to have a girl who hated the sun and little black flies. Spring and summer were so much fun.

As far as the parents not wanting a psych eval., there is a whole lotta stigma attached to something like that, unfortunately. And who wants to admit their 4 yo child needs therapy? Again, unfortunately, many do not want to admit there might be a problem or worse, it might even be their parenting skills(or lack of). BUT since their child will be entering ft school soon, you'd think they'd want to get her help now. It can be so difficult for a child dealing with the anxiety of entering a new environment.
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Mad_Pistachio 06:33 AM 05-06-2017
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
As far as the parents not wanting a psych eval., there is a whole lotta stigma attached to something like that, unfortunately. And who wants to admit their 4 yo child needs therapy? Again, unfortunately, many do not want to admit there might be a problem or worse, it might even be their parenting skills(or lack of). BUT since their child will be entering ft school soon, you'd think they'd want to get her help now. It can be so difficult for a child dealing with the anxiety of entering a new environment.
If they go to public school, it probably won't let it slide. Private ones "handle" that stuff often (not all, but many), public school system tends to throw it into parents' faces. Not to be taken as something negative, as sometimes the denial needs intervention.
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Unregistered 06:58 PM 05-08-2017
As a parent I'd try diet supplements. Anxiety can possibly be helped with magnesium, omega 3's and probiotics. Anxiety many times stems from childhood trauma. Makes me wonder what's really going on in this child's world.

That is crazy off the charts stuff your dealing with. I can't imagine a 4 yr old behaving this way. If it's learned behavior that's just bizarre parents somehow played a role in this. Still, makes me question how it can be this extreme and I'm suspicious there's more to this!
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EntropyControlSpecialist 05:53 AM 05-09-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
As a parent I'd try diet supplements. Anxiety can possibly be helped with magnesium, omega 3's and probiotics. Anxiety many times stems from childhood trauma. Makes me wonder what's really going on in this child's world.

That is crazy off the charts stuff your dealing with. I can't imagine a 4 yr old behaving this way. If it's learned behavior that's just bizarre parents somehow played a role in this. Still, makes me question how it can be this extreme and I'm suspicious there's more to this!
This is how I deal with my own 3.5-year-old daughter's anxiety that expresses itself in some interesting ways.
HOWEVER, I also am nearly through with the evaluation process with the local school district with her because I'd like to know what's going on. That has included 2 psych evaluations and a 3rd will be today. I am not in denial and because I am not in denial I am attempting to help her as we figure things out.

The parents she is referring to seem to be in some serious denial if their solution is to completely modify normal life. I don't think you'll find such parents implementing supplements, vitamins, etc.

I'm sorry for all of y'all. I am glad you have some kind of a solution to get through the end of June (with the separation and camera as well as pick ups after 30 minutes). If it gets to be too much and is causing anxiety for you and your class I'd lower the time limit and state why.
I know it still likely feels like you have a cheese grater on your nerves with THAT much hysterical crying from a 4.5-year-old.
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hwichlaz 10:44 AM 05-10-2017
This is affecting her quality of life, and needs professional treatment.
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daycarediva 04:21 AM 05-11-2017
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
This is how I deal with my own 3.5-year-old daughter's anxiety that expresses itself in some interesting ways.
HOWEVER, I also am nearly through with the evaluation process with the local school district with her because I'd like to know what's going on. That has included 2 psych evaluations and a 3rd will be today. I am not in denial and because I am not in denial I am attempting to help her as we figure things out.

The parents she is referring to seem to be in some serious denial if their solution is to completely modify normal life. I don't think you'll find such parents implementing supplements, vitamins, etc.

I'm sorry for all of y'all. I am glad you have some kind of a solution to get through the end of June (with the separation and camera as well as pick ups after 30 minutes). If it gets to be too much and is causing anxiety for you and your class I'd lower the time limit and state why.
I know it still likely feels like you have a cheese grater on your nerves with THAT much hysterical crying from a 4.5-year-old.
YES! She has been sent home every day this week.

Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
This is affecting her quality of life, and needs professional treatment.
exactly. I told them as much Monday. We will see.
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Tags:anxiety, separation anxiety
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