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  #1  
Old 08-05-2010, 12:41 PM
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hutchison4life hutchison4life is offline
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Default Son Summarily Dismissed Because of Parents Question

Hi everyone,
I'm rather new to this, please bear with me. My question is:
My sons teacher/coordinator dismissed my son from attending pre-k this year because I asked if any Gay Pride activities were planned; that we be notified and he be excused from those activities.
she already cashed the deposit and the first payment. within 72 hours of the question (Friday) we received a letter and certified check for the money. Stating that we did not trust her and that she only had our sons interest at heart.
Our son, she told us, was exemplary, no troubles, very kind and helpful the previous school year.
Can a facility get away with this? Especially this late in the year?
We as parents have done everything she asked of us. this whole episode has been a shock to us.
Any comments welcome. Thank you
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:40 AM
Golden Rule Golden Rule is offline
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They can break the agreement, as stated in the contract, at any time and for any reaon, just as you could.
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:45 AM
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Well, legally I don't think you have any grounds as you received a full refund of monies paid.

And, although you are entitled to your belief systems I have to say that if a parent displayed any discriminatory qualities I might have done just the same.

I guess for me it's not about religious beliefs but more of a standpoint of seeing it as discrimination against gays and lesbians and not wanting your child 'subject' to that.

I think it is our job as "teachers" to young children to foster acceptance of ALL religions, cultures and lifestyles. It is our job to teach children that differences should be embraced and not shunned or silenced. Understanding that everyone is different is HEALTHY and gives a child a more realistic impression of the world they will enter in adulthood.

I know I am not adequately conveying what I am trying to say but all in all, if I had a huge philosophical difference with a parent I too, would bid you farewell and wish you the best in securing other daycare.

Perhaps if you sought out a faith-based daycare you might find it fits your needs and philosophical beliefs better.

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:50 AM
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I agree with judy. Sorry, I would have kicked you out too. I don't teach kids to discriminate
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by swaddlebees View Post
I agree with judy. Sorry, I would have kicked you out too. I don't teach kids to discriminate
Could not agree more......

I got that "warning flag" from her as well.....


Added : (My concern would be the tone of the conversation. The post says the provider stated that she felt the parent did not trust her. To me this says that the child was terminated based on that. Reading between the lines, that would outline a history, not just a one time occurance. I don't feel this issue is so much about Gay Pride as it is a failure of two adult women to "mesh personalities" for lack of better terminology.)

Last edited by Golden Rule; 08-06-2010 at 10:23 AM. Reason: adding...instead of another post.
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchison4life View Post
Hi everyone,
I'm rather new to this, please bear with me. My question is:
My sons teacher/coordinator dismissed my son from attending pre-k this year because I asked if any Gay Pride activities were planned; that we be notified and he be excused from those activities.
she already cashed the deposit and the first payment. within 72 hours of the question (Friday) we received a letter and certified check for the money. Stating that we did not trust her and that she only had our sons interest at heart.
Our son, she told us, was exemplary, no troubles, very kind and helpful the previous school year.
Can a facility get away with this? Especially this late in the year?
We as parents have done everything she asked of us. this whole episode has been a shock to us.
Any comments welcome. Thank you
WOW! I don't know your provider, obviously, but I love her!!! It is so awesome to see people put whats right above making a buck! I think you have single handedly restored my faith in humanity...or rather she has.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:58 AM
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Side note.................


I find it interesting that the word .....L....E...S..B...I....A....N..... does not come up and has been tagged as a dirty word right up there with swear words.

If we are really fostering acceptance then that word should not be in the same class as many of the common "dirty" words.

Just a thought admin.......
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchison4life View Post
Hi everyone,
I'm rather new to this, please bear with me. My question is:
My sons teacher/coordinator dismissed my son from attending pre-k this year because I asked if any Gay Pride activities were planned; that we be notified and he be excused from those activities.
she already cashed the deposit and the first payment. within 72 hours of the question (Friday) we received a letter and certified check for the money. Stating that we did not trust her and that she only had our sons interest at heart.
Our son, she told us, was exemplary, no troubles, very kind and helpful the previous school year.
Can a facility get away with this? Especially this late in the year?
We as parents have done everything she asked of us. this whole episode has been a shock to us.
Any comments welcome. Thank you
We are too busy worshiping the devil here to have time for gay pride activities so I can't say whether or not they can "get away with it".
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:07 AM
Golden Rule Golden Rule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Side note.................


I find it interesting that the word .....L....E...S..B...I....A....N..... does not come up and has been tagged as a dirty word right up there with swear words.

If we are really fostering acceptance then that word should not be in the same class as many of the common "dirty" words.

Just a thought admin.......
Oh, wow!! I was wondering why you did that... It never occurred to me the site did it. Too weird?

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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
We are too busy worshiping the devil here to have time for gay pride activities so I can't say whether or not they can "get away with it".
Thank you!!!! I needed that laugh today!!! I have had the worst two weeks
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:17 AM
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I agree with judy. Sorry, I would have kicked you out too. I don't teach kids to discriminate
Are you guys all serious????? A four year old/prek class needs to have a gay pride day? PLEASE tell me this does not really happen. I do not feel it is my job as a childcare provider to teach any child about gay/lesbian issues any more than I would teach them about other issues beyond their interests/thought processes. This includes religion/affirmitive action/animal rights/birth control/polygamy/abortion/undocumented workers...whatever, it is not my job. (and yes I know, that list is over the top, but where would it really end?) This is not what prek should be about.
I DO teach that we are to be kind and love others, even if they are different. I DO have a very multicultural setting. I DO NOT promote hate and/or discrimination in any form, but I WILL NEVER have a gay pride day in my chilod care.

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by momofsix View Post
Are you guys all serious????? A four year old/prek class needs to have a gay pride day? PLEASE tell me this does not really happen. I do not feel it is my job as a childcare provider to teach any child about gay/lesbian issues any more than I would teach them about other issues beyond their interests/thought processes. This includes religion/affirmitive action/animal rights/birth control/polygamy/abortion/undocumented workers...whatever, it is not my job. (and yes I know, that list is over the top, but where would it really end?) This is not what prek should be about.
I DO teach that we are to be kind and love others, even if they are different. I DO have a very multicultural setting. I DO NOT promote hate and/or discrimination in any form, but I WILL NEVER have a gay pride day in my chilod care.
Well, I'm gonna give the centre in question the benefit of the doubt that gay pride day wasn't going to include couples making out in the corner or men walkikng around in saddle pants with exposed buttocks.

I mean, really..................................

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:31 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:24 AM
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Default I would drop the family immediately

No ifs, ands, or buts about it! I WILL NOT EVER TOLERATE BIGOTS IN MY DAYCARE SETTING! I'm sorry, but the OP is a part of what is wrong with the world these days! I'm glad that the provider dismissed her. I have always taught the children in my care that we should love ALL PEOPLE, not just the straight ones.

OP, what is wrong with you? I really hope that your child doesn't learn to be homophobic like you are. I don't even know what to say right now. I just don't have the words to express how disgusting you are, OP.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Well, I'm gonna give the centre in question the benefit of the doubt that gay pride day wasn't going to include couples making out in the corner or men walkikng around in saddle pants with exposed buttocks.

I mean, really..................................
OMG, this has me roflmao!!! TOO funny!
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momofsix View Post
Are you guys all serious????? A four year old/prek class needs to have a gay pride day? PLEASE tell me this does not really happen. I do not feel it is my job as a childcare provider to teach any child about gay/lesbian issues any more than I would teach them about other issues beyond their interests/thought processes. This includes religion/affirmitive action/animal rights/birth control/polygamy/abortion/undocumented workers...whatever, it is not my job. (and yes I know, that list is over the top, but where would it really end?) This is not what prek should be about.
I DO teach that we are to be kind and love others, even if they are different. I DO have a very multicultural setting. I DO NOT promote hate and/or discrimination in any form, but I WILL NEVER have a gay pride day in my chilod care.

If you re-read the op's statement it did NOT say that the provider/center was planning any gay pride activities - the parents asked to be notified IF there was anything planned. (And, seriously, why would there be??? I have never heard of any provider/center planning gay pride activities. Overly concerned parent, IMHO.)

I too would terminate this family. Their beliefs are not in line with my own and discrimination in any form is not something I can tolerate. People are allowed to believe what they will BUT, that does not mean I have to do business with them.

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:31 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:27 AM
Golden Rule Golden Rule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchison4life View Post
Hi everyone,
I'm rather new to this, please bear with me. My question is:
My sons teacher/coordinator dismissed my son from attending pre-k this year because I asked if any Gay Pride activities were planned; that we be notified and he be excused from those activities.she already cashed the deposit and the first payment. within 72 hours of the question (Friday) we received a letter and certified check for the money. Stating that we did not trust her and that she only had our sons interest at heart.
Our son, she told us, was exemplary, no troubles, very kind and helpful the previous school year.
Can a facility get away with this? Especially this late in the year?
We as parents have done everything she asked of us. this whole episode has been a shock to us.
Any comments welcome. Thank you
Nowhere is it listed that the daycare was having a gay pride event. I feel the post was prompted by the recent decision on Proposition 8..... and not a daycares activities.

Last edited by Golden Rule; 08-06-2010 at 10:08 AM. Reason: adding..... "the post" instead of "it" to be less vague... : )
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  #16  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:32 AM
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While I think the parent should be informed of any events that may occur in the program related to Gay Pride, and that it is the parents right to decide whether their child attends those events based on their families personal beliefs and values, and that the provider should respect a families personal beliefs and values, just as she would expect hers be respected, she has the right to terminate care for any reason she chooses.

It is unfortunate for your child, as it sounds as though there has been a wonderful caregiver/child/family relationship and I am sorry that you are now having to find another program for him. Best wishes to your family.
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:32 AM
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Wow, this could really turn into a very heated debate since it is a very touchy subject. I do agree that they were within their rights to kick you out based on discrimination, especially if it is in direct opposition to their philosophies. It is their business and they can do what they want. That being said, I truly see your point of view. You are the parent. This is YOUR child and you want to raise your child the way you see fit and with your moral and religious beliefs, whether others agree with those beliefs or not. The biggest problem here is that it sounds like this is a religious issue for you, yet you placed your child in a secular childcare setting. There were bound to be issues, whether this particular issue or some other. Often religious beliefs and the secular systems do not blend perfectly. I would advise you to seek out a faith-based childcare setting. You can do this with home daycare.

Personally, my DC kids would pray with me before meals and snacks. I would teach SOME Christian-based beliefs. During Christmas, we read about Santa and about Jesus. I always let the parents know that this was lightly touched on in my daycare. It wasn't all day, every day, just a little here and there. But, if any of my clients opposed, I would make accommodations. For instance, if I had a Jewish family, then I would have the children celebrate Christmas (secular and Christian) and Hanukkah. Then we would discuss the similarities in the 2 religions and the differences, stressing that we are more alike than different and that we need to respect each others beliefs.

As for the gay issue, I would not have Gay Pride activities or even mention it. I do not think it is my place to teach that it IS ok or that it IS NOT ok. That is for the parent to teach. However, if a child asked me, I would explain that gays and straights are (again) more similar than different (we all want to be loved, all feel pain, etc.) and deserve respect. That does not mean we have to agree, we just have to respect each other. That is the only thing I would teach on the subject, but it would not really be about teaching anything about that particular topic. The lesson would be a general lesson in respecting others and their points of view and beliefs, which transcends the specific issue of homosexuality, into a much broader topic, across the board, to varying issues.

Also, this would fall into one of those "at-will" type of situations. However, I could see it as discrimination against you and your beliefs. If it were the other way around and you requested that they include your child a Gay Pride celebration and they terminated for that, it would clearly be discriminatory. However, this is their business and as a former daycare provider and sole proprietor of my own business, I could not make special accommodations for each and every child. So if this would be a logistical problem for them (finding other activities for your child and providing a separate caregiver for your child during the activities), then they have the right to exclude your child. Although I think terminating was extreme. I would think that they could have just had you find alternate care for that week or whatever and then welcome your child back after it's all over.

Let me just say this on the issue, I think discrimination is always wrong. That does not mean that the OP or I or anyone else is a bad person for not standing up and screaming Gay Pride chants. We may not SUPPORT it or CELEBRATE it, but we can still respect it. I would never support violence (or even name-calling) against anyone who is gay. As a matter of fact, I have gay friends and personally, I think they can be some of the funniest and wittiest people I have ever known. However, from a religious standpoint, I believe it to be wrong. HOWEVER, I am not GOD and I could be the one who is wrong and misinterpreting God's word. That is why, I do not push my religious beliefs on others. So, please, do not take this as me being anti-gay, because I am NOT. I am more like Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"
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  #18  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:32 AM
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I was picturing them all doing the YMCA song!!!
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:32 AM
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WOW! I don't know your provider, obviously, but I love her!!! It is so awesome to see people put whats right above making a buck! I think you have single handedly restored my faith in humanity...or rather she has.
Either that or we've been visited by a troll.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:33 AM
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I was picturing them all doing the YMCA song!!!


I was at America's Incredible Pizza with DS a couple of weeks ago and they had a YMCA song blast in their foyer. It was SO cute seeing the little kids doing that song. Loved it.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:35 AM
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I'd love to see an explanation from the parent. Perhaps she is aware that the provider is gay, and while she respects that on a day to day basis, she prefers that her child does not participate in open celebrations about it, just as parents with differing religious beliefs may love their provider even though she may be of different religious beliefs, they do not have their child participate when there are religious holidays or celebrations. Same thing IMO.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:39 AM
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They were well within their rights and I applaud them.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:47 AM
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I'd love to see an explanation from the parent. Perhaps she is aware that the provider is gay, and while she respects that on a day to day basis, she prefers that her child does not participate in open celebrations about it, just as parents with differing religious beliefs may love their provider even though she may be of different religious beliefs, they do not have their child participate when there are religious holidays or celebrations. Same thing IMO.
I had this family interview when my kid was three. They told me they were some religion that I don't remember. They had some food restrictions and a NO TV thing, but what I do remember was the no Christmas images. They told me they didn't want there to be a Christmas Tree in the house or any images of Santa. They didn't want any Easter Bunny Stuff or Leprechauns on St. Patty's day.

I told them NO. I'm not not having a Christmas Tree, presents, and Santa for my kid. Aint happening.

Now maybe I broke some laws and maybe I'm supposed to make those accomodations but I refused to do it. My dcp's all do Christmas, they celebrate Easter, we wear green on St Patty's. I'm not going to take away our identity to accomodate theirs.

I could see the TV thing and the meal accomodations but Christmas was where I drew my line.

The line that must not be crossed may be the "Gay Pride" line for that provider (if it's real).
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  #24  
Old 08-06-2010, 08:52 AM
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Default Discrimination OR age-appropriateness issue?

Wow - the hostility! I knew this topic would elicit a lot of emotions. Here's a thought for EVERYONE. Did the OP say that she was against Gay Pride activities? No. Maybe, just maybe, she is of the opinion that this topic is inappropriate for this age group and should be addressed at a later age. It may not even be about personal beliefs. It may be an issue of timing and age-appropriateness.

I have a cousin whose son was in kindergarten or 1st grade this past year and part of their curriculum included the Holocaust. I have nothing against teaching children about this horrific era in history, however, I did think it was wholly inappropriate for this age group.

Please, let's not jump to the worst possible thought about the OP or call her/him names. Isn't this what is wrong in society? We jump to conclusions without knowing the full story or the full intentions of others. It is equally deplorable to lash out and bite the head off of someone who doesn't support gay pride celebrations as it would be to lash out and bite someone head off for being gay. Like I said before, just because someone doesn't support, celebrate, or shout Gay Pride chants, does not mean that the person is a horrible person or even a homophobe. Is the OP bashing gays or lesbians? No. She just does not want this topic taught to her child, at this age, and by someone other than her. That is her right! Have we forgotten that? Parents do have a right to teach their child about things when the PARENT decides it is appropriate.

Sheesh, give this OP break. She was not being mean in any way, yet some people are jumping down her throat and completely disrespecting her rights as a parent.

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:14 AM
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Wow - the hostility! I knew this topic would elicit a lot of emotions. Here's a thought for EVERYONE. Did the OP say that she was against Gay Pride activities? No. Maybe, just maybe, she is of the opinion that this topic is inappropriate for this age group and should be addressed at a later age. It may not even be about personal beliefs. It may be an issue of timing and age-appropriateness.

I have a cousin whose son was in kindergarten or 1st grade this past year and part of their curriculum included the Holocaust. I have nothing against teaching children about this horrific era in history, however, I did think it was wholly inappropriate for this age group.

Please, let's not jump to the worst possible thought about the OP or call her/him names. Isn't this what is wrong in society? We jump to conclusions without knowing the full story or the full intentions of others. It is equally deplorable to lash out and bite the head off of someone who doesn't support gay pride celebrations as it would be to lash out and bite someone head off for being gay. Like I said before, just because someone doesn't support, celebrate, or shout Gay Pride chants, does not mean that the person is a horrible person or even a homophobe. Is the OP bashing gays or lesbians? No. She just does not want this topic taught to her child, at this age, and by someone other than her. That is her right! Have we forgotten that? Parents do have a right to teach their child about things when the PARENT decides it is appropriate.

Sheesh, give this OP break. She was not being mean in any way, yet some people are jumping down her throat and completely disrespecting her rights as a parent.
Well said

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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  #26  
Old 08-06-2010, 09:25 AM
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Default Sorry, but this is just sad to me...

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Originally Posted by professionalmom View Post
Wow - the hostility! I knew this topic would elicit a lot of emotions. Here's a thought for EVERYONE. Did the OP say that she was against Gay Pride activities? No. Maybe, just maybe, she is of the opinion that this topic is inappropriate for this age group and should be addressed at a later age. It may not even be about personal beliefs. It may be an issue of timing and age-appropriateness.

I have a cousin whose son was in kindergarten or 1st grade this past year and part of their curriculum included the Holocaust. I have nothing against teaching children about this horrific era in history, however, I did think it was wholly inappropriate for this age group.

Please, let's not jump to the worst possible thought about the OP or call her/him names. Isn't this what is wrong in society? We jump to conclusions without knowing the full story or the full intentions of others. It is equally deplorable to lash out and bite the head off of someone who doesn't support gay pride celebrations as it would be to lash out and bite someone head off for being gay. Like I said before, just because someone doesn't support, celebrate, or shout Gay Pride chants, does not mean that the person is a horrible person or even a homophobe. Is the OP bashing gays or lesbians? No. She just does not want this topic taught to her child, at this age, and by someone other than her. That is her right! Have we forgotten that? Parents do have a right to teach their child about things when the PARENT decides it is appropriate.

Sheesh, give this OP break. She was not being mean in any way, yet some people are jumping down her throat and completely disrespecting her rights as a parent.
I will not give the OP a break on this subject. Kids learn how to discriminate in the first few years of their lives. Parents, whether they know it or not, help to shape their child's beliefs and if a parent is already setting the example that gay pride related activities are things that the chcild shouldn't be exposed to, then what do you think that the child will learn from that? I'll tell you. The child will equate being gay with being wrong and not natural. No disrepect intended but if you think that the OP's reasons for not wanting her child to take part or be around anything gay pride related is about the child being too young to know about these things then you are severely out of touch.

I just think that it's sad.

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:41 AM
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While I think the parent should be informed of any events that may occur in the program related to Gay Pride, and that it is the parents right to decide whether their child attends those events based on their families personal beliefs and values, and that the provider should respect a families personal beliefs and values, just as she would expect hers be respected, she has the right to terminate care for any reason she chooses.

It is unfortunate for your child, as it sounds as though there has been a wonderful caregiver/child/family relationship and I am sorry that you are now having to find another program for him. Best wishes to your family.
I agree with this. Even as someone who was extremely pleased with the recent Prop 8 ruling, I cannot imagine discriminating against someone who asks only to be notified of any gay pride events (and, as others have said, why would a preschool have gay pride events?). There is no reason that this child should have been excluded from care because of something that the mother said. Had the mother said, "I don't want my children exposed to other gay families, do you have any here..." I would understand dismissing this child. All she asked was about gay pride events.

In this situation, I would have explained to the parent that while we have no plans for gay pride events, should the children talk about men marrying men or women marrying women, that discussion would be welcome just as any other discussion would be. Then, if the parent was uncomfortable with that, she could decide on her own that that center isn't a place where she'd feel comfortable.

The only thing that I can think of is that the provider may have other parents who are gay and wouldn't want any negative feelings from either side should the OP speaks out about her opinions.

Whatever the provider's reasons for dismissing this family from care, I am really surprised at the responses on this forum applauding her actions. Seriously, I'm dumbfounded.

Katy
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  #28  
Old 08-06-2010, 09:48 AM
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I will not give the OP a break on this subject. Kids learn how to discriminate in the first few years of their lives. Parents, whether they know it or not, help to shape their child's beliefs and if a parent is already setting the example that gay pride related activities are things that the chcild shouldn't be exposed to, then what do you think that the child will learn from that? I'll tell you. The child will equate being gay with being wrong and not natural. No disrepect intended but if you think that the OP's reasons for not wanting her child to take part or be around anything gay pride related is about the child being too young to know about these things then you are severely out of touch.

I just think that it's sad.
There was no mention of the parent discriminating. We don't know what is being taught at home. Maybe they are teaching tolerance at home, but the parent wishes to teach her child that on HER own terms and with language that SHE feels is appropriate. The bottom line is that this is a topic of sexuality. And I am of the opinion that anything that has to do with SEXUAL orientation is completely inappropriate at this age. Are we going to start teaching sex ed in daycare now? Will children under 5 see two women holding hands or even maybe give each other a kiss? Sure. My mom and I give each other kisses all the time. Children should not be exposed to much more than this at this age. For all they know, the 2 women (or 2 men) are friends that are just showing that they care about each other. They do not need to know that the 2 women or men share the same bed or are in love or anything like that. For this age group, they just need to know that people are people and that we should all love each other and treat each other with respect. Period. They don't need to know what makes mom's relationship with dad unique from her relationship with other men or women. Just like they don't need to know that there are straight people, homosexual people, bisexual people, etc. People are people. Let the kids be kids for a while. We can shock them with all these gory details when they are a little older. And by gory, I mean sex in general. If you think about sex from a child's perspective, it is very gross, even french kissing sounds disgusting to them, let alone how a baby gets into the mommy's belly! Do you remember how mortified you were when you found out? I was positive I would never let anyone do THAT to me! LOL! But here I am pregnant with #2 & #3.

So, let's just let the kids be kids and let them be innocent a little while longer.
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:22 AM
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So I apologize if anyone is offended by my outrage. One of my daycare kids (who is no longer with me) said that gay people will all burn in Hell. He said this during our circle time and made 2 of the other kids cry when he said it. This prompted me to discuss it further so that I could reassure the other kids that were upset that what this little boy said is not true. I asked him if he knew what "gay" meant and he said he did and he said that God punishes the wicked and he sends them to Hell and they burn forever. He was 5 at the time. This is also the same kid that said that people who celebrate Halloween are going to Hell because it's devil worship. The comment that this child made about gay people prompted me to talk to the kids about love. I really and truly believe that love is such a beautiful gift to give and to recieve that it's shameful when people put restrictions on it. "2 men can't love each other" or "2 women can't love each other". How small minded is that??? Love is much too precious to be made wrong by people who are afraid that seeing a gay couple holding hands will emotionally scar their kids for life. Also, talking to children about gay couples doesn't mean that the children are getting sexual details. I think that the daycare did the right thing by letting the family go. I did the same thing with the kid in my care who was already a full-fledged bigot. I had to because I didn''t want him to poison the hearts of the other kids in my care. I won't have that. Maybe that's what the provider for the OP did. Maybe she could see the writing on the wall. I stand by my opinion that the OP has a prejudice against gay people because if she didn't, then she wouldn't have felt the need to address any Gay Pride related issues in the first place. If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck...then it's a duck.
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:40 AM
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So I apologize if anyone is offended by my outrage. One of my daycare kids (who is no longer with me) said that gay people will all burn in Hell. He said this during our circle time and made 2 of the other kids cry when he said it. This prompted me to discuss it further so that I could reassure the other kids that were upset that what this little boy said is not true. I asked him if he knew what "gay" meant and he said he did and he said that God punishes the wicked and he sends them to Hell and they burn forever. He was 5 at the time. This is also the same kid that said that people who celebrate Halloween are going to Hell because it's devil worship. The comment that this child made about gay people prompted me to talk to the kids about love. I really and truly believe that love is such a beautiful gift to give and to recieve that it's shameful when people put restrictions on it. "2 men can't love each other" or "2 women can't love each other". How small minded is that??? Love is much too precious to be made wrong by people who are afraid that seeing a gay couple holding hands will emotionally scar their kids for life. Also, talking to children about gay couples doesn't mean that the children are getting sexual details. I think that the daycare did the right thing by letting the family go. I did the same thing with the kid in my care who was already a full-fledged bigot. I had to because I didn''t want him to poison the hearts of the other kids in my care. I won't have that. Maybe that's what the provider for the OP did. Maybe she could see the writing on the wall. I stand by my opinion that the OP has a prejudice against gay people because if she didn't, then she wouldn't have felt the need to address any Gay Pride related issues in the first place. If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck...then it's a duck.

I'm not offended! Gay Pride is no different than Martin Luther King Day in my book and I'm pretty sure we'd all be up in arms if the poster had said they didn't want thier kids to participate in that or Black History Day or Susan B. Anthony Day...
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:57 AM
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So I apologize if anyone is offended by my outrage. One of my daycare kids (who is no longer with me) said that gay people will all burn in Hell. He said this during our circle time and made 2 of the other kids cry when he said it. This prompted me to discuss it further so that I could reassure the other kids that were upset that what this little boy said is not true. I asked him if he knew what "gay" meant and he said he did and he said that God punishes the wicked and he sends them to Hell and they burn forever. He was 5 at the time. This is also the same kid that said that people who celebrate Halloween are going to Hell because it's devil worship. The comment that this child made about gay people prompted me to talk to the kids about love. I really and truly believe that love is such a beautiful gift to give and to recieve that it's shameful when people put restrictions on it. "2 men can't love each other" or "2 women can't love each other". How small minded is that??? Love is much too precious to be made wrong by people who are afraid that seeing a gay couple holding hands will emotionally scar their kids for life. Also, talking to children about gay couples doesn't mean that the children are getting sexual details. I think that the daycare did the right thing by letting the family go. I did the same thing with the kid in my care who was already a full-fledged bigot. I had to because I didn''t want him to poison the hearts of the other kids in my care. I won't have that. Maybe that's what the provider for the OP did. Maybe she could see the writing on the wall. I stand by my opinion that the OP has a prejudice against gay people because if she didn't, then she wouldn't have felt the need to address any Gay Pride related issues in the first place. If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck...then it's a duck.
First, the child you had that made those comments - that was TOTALLY uncalled for and I would have definitely addressed that with his parents explaining that we do NOT discriminate and talk like that in MY home. Period. It is very sad that some parents raise there kids to be that hateful.

Second, the OP was not being rude, hateful, or even disrespectful in ANY way. We do not know her reasons. To ASSUME that she hates gays, is a homophobe, or is a bigot, is to be just as "intolerant" as you ASSUME she is. Remember, you are putting words in her mouth, without knowing the full story. Is it right for her or anyone to ASSUME that all gay people are God-hating, immoral, sexual deviants, who prey upon young people and try to "turn" straight people gay? No. Those are ASSUMPTIONS. You are doing the exact same thing. The OP was only concerned about her child being exposed it something that the MOTHER did not think her child was ready to learn about. She was not bashing them for being gay or having any gay pride events. She was exercising her rights as a parent, just as a parent has a right to her his/her child excluded from a sexual education course in school. By the way, have you heard the saying that when you ASSUME, you make an a** out of you. That is why we should not make those leaps.

You said, "If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck...then it's a duck." I find this very interesting. First, my daughter knows how to walk like a duck and quack like a duck, but I guarantee that she is NOT a duck. Second, the OP never said that she is opposed to celebrations of Gay Pride. She only said that she wanted to know ahead of time and did not want her child to participate. What if the event was a day at the pool and the parent was not comfortable with her young child swimming without a parent present to provide one-on-one supervision? We are talking about an event which the parent (for whatever reason) is uncomfortable with her child participating. And for that, she is getting called horrible, horrific names.

Although I do think that the OP's provider did not do anything wrong by terminating, I do not see the point in attacking the OP. I can honestly see both sides of this situation. But the OP showed any signs of hatred towards gays. Yet, she has been the target of hatred against her. That truly is the pot calling the kettle black. Again, in the famous words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:59 AM
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Does anyone here really teach this stuff to preschoolers? Really? Sounds to me like maybe that's why the provider was insulted. Because what preschool teacher would take it upon him/herself to teach this at that age without the parents knowledge? I had a parent once make an off the wall request like this. After I had cared for his children for over a year, I gave them a little album with a bunch of pics from his son's birthday party. (They had signed a photo release when they enrolled btw) He immediately said he's alright with me taking pictures, but sternly requested that I never take pictures of the children with their clothes off. As if I would!!! I was so insulted and hurt by this I almost started crying right in front of him. I had just handed them a present and it really felt like he had slapped me in the face in return. I did manage to wait until they were gone to get really upset, but I did let them go shortly after.. If after a reasonable amount of time I don't have the parent's trust especially that I would so drastically overstep my bounds as a childcare provider, then I don't see the point in continuing the business relationship. I can't speak for her, but perhaps this teacher felt the same way..
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:30 AM
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First, the child you had that made those comments - that was TOTALLY uncalled for and I would have definitely addressed that with his parents explaining that we do NOT discriminate and talk like that in MY home. Period. It is very sad that some parents raise there kids to be that hateful.

Second, the OP was not being rude, hateful, or even disrespectful in ANY way. (I disagree with you. The disrespect comes in with her even asking the question in the first place. Did she think that the provider was going to be screening gay adult films?)]We do not know her reasons. To ASSUME that she hates gays, is a homophobe, or is a bigot, is to be just as "intolerant" as you ASSUME she is. Remember, you are putting words in her mouth, without knowing the full story. Is it right for her or anyone to ASSUME that all gay people are God-hating, immoral, sexual deviants, who prey upon young people and try to "turn" straight people gay? No. Those are ASSUMPTIONS. You are doing the exact same thing. The OP was only concerned about her child being exposed it something that the MOTHER did not think her child was ready to learn about. She was not bashing them for being gay or having any gay pride events. She was exercising her rights as a parent, just as a parent has a right to her his/her child excluded from a sexual education course in school. Jesus H. Hubert Tap-Dancing Christ, lady! Do you really think that the daycare provider was going to be providing a sex ed class???? That is absurd and insulting to the OP's former daycare provider! Unreal. By the way, have you heard the saying that when you ASSUME, you make an a** out of you. That is why we should not make those leaps. I'm OK with being an "ass" because at least I'll be an "ass" who stays true to her convictions.You said, "If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck...then it's a duck." I find this very interesting. First, my daughter knows how to walk like a duck and quack like a duck, but I guarantee that she is NOT a duck. I'm sure that I don't need to explain to you that I didn't mean literally a duck... Second, the OP never said that she is opposed to celebrations of Gay Pride. She only said that she wanted to know ahead of time and did not want her child to participate. OK, then if she's not opposed to it, then why would there be an issue about her child participating? That seems like opposition to me. What if the event was a day at the pool and the parent was not comfortable with her young child swimming without a parent present to provide one-on-one supervision? This example is not even close to the OP's issue. A pool is related to safety whereas a gay pride event is not a matter of physical safety. You're comparing apples and oranges. We are talking about an event which the parent (for whatever reason) is uncomfortable with her child participating. And for that, she is getting called horrible, horrific names.

Although I do think that the OP's provider did not do anything wrong by terminating, I do not see the point in attacking the OP. I can honestly see both sides of this situation. But the OP showed any signs of hatred towards gays. Yet, she has been the target of hatred against her. That truly is the pot calling the kettle black. Again, in the famous words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"
You're right, the OP didn't come right out and say that she hated gay people. Maybe she doesn't hate them but she is certainly uncomfortable with them. Maybe I am the pot who calls the kettle black, but I don't mind. I just think that someone needs to call the OP out on her post. A person doesn't have to be obvious to be prejudiced against a group of people. The OP sounds like a person who has her opinions and veils them just to seem politically correct.

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:37 AM
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Wow, really a gay pride day in PreK?!?! I couldn't even imagine, I still remember my daughters first week of preschool. She came home after only being there for 2 half days and we were eating dinner as a family she looked at me as serious as can be and said "Mom, I want a step mom!" She is going to be entering into Kindergarten this comming fall and I am still having a terrible time teaching her about divorce and answering all of the questions she has about it, due to all of the other girls in her preK class having divorced parents! So with this said, I cannot even fathom trying to teach a bunch of preschoolers about gays and lesbions, come on!!! I teach the kids in my care about being kind and loving to others even if they are different from you! This is what they understand and certainly all they need to understand! The parent simply asked to be notified if the preK was going to have Gay Pride day! With the initial post, we certainly can't make any sort of conclusion stating that they are being judgemental and discriminitory on the parents part! How do any of you even know, maybe the parents and Gays or lesbions and wanted to be notified before hand and that is it! In my opinion the teacher herself was the one to discriminate! If it is the other way around, to each their own and if they would like to be notified before hand of a Gaypride day taking place in a PreK setting, I simply see nothing wrong with this! I do wonder how this is layed out and explained to Preschoolers However! LOL
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:38 AM
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Wow,
To me,it looks like discrimination came from the provider,not the parent.
We can not terminate anyone because of that.
Why???
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  #36  
Old 08-06-2010, 11:59 AM
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While I think the parent should be informed of any events that may occur in the program related to Gay Pride, and that it is the parents right to decide whether their child attends those events based on their families personal beliefs and values, and that the provider should respect a families personal beliefs and values, just as she would expect hers be respected, she has the right to terminate care for any reason she chooses.

It is unfortunate for your child, as it sounds as though there has been a wonderful caregiver/child/family relationship and I am sorry that you are now having to find another program for him. Best wishes to your family.
Thank you Crystal your comments make the most sense too me.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:03 PM
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I REALLY wish the OP would come back and discuss this....though she may have been scared off.

I REALLY wonder if perhaps last year the preschool did indeed celebrate Gay Pride without informing parents prior to doing so and that is the reason why the parent asked to be informed.

Whatever it is, I'd like to say that I wholeheartedly agree with Professionalmom and I also respect Janet's take on it as well, to a different degree.
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  #38  
Old 08-06-2010, 12:25 PM
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One of my best friends in high school lived a complete lie because she didn't want to make anyone uncomfortable because of her sexual preference. No one beat her up or threatened her in any way because she didn't tell them. The reason that she never told them is because it was already clear to her that being a lesbian was something that other people were uncomfortable with. So basically, until she moved out of state, she had to pretend that she was a straight woman because of other peoples hang-ups. That is the ultimate in self hatred to me. It starts in childhood. Children are not deaf, they hear their parents and other people that they get their beliefs from talk. They take on those beliefs as their own until the time comes, if it ever comes at all, for them to choose their own beliefs. I'm sorry but this is a big deal. I'm sick to death of people trying to make it OK. The old standard "I'm not prejudiced, I have a gay friend, so I don't judge. But being gay is against my religion. It's a sin." is just so backwards. Pick a side of the fence and stick to it already! A PERSON CANNOT BE SUPPORTIVE OF A PERSON'S SEXUAL PREFERENCE AND SAY THAT THEY DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE AND THEN IN THE SAME BREATH SAY THAT IT'S AGAINST THEIR RELIGION AND THEY FEEL IT IS WRONG. If we all want the world to be a peaceful place and if we want a world that has unity, then judging anything as right or wrong is totally off the mark. The OP could have just as easily checked a calendar of upcoming events with the provider and then just not brought her child if she noticed any type of event that she found unnacceptable. She could have asked the provider if there were any events coming up and then if the provider said yes, then the OP could have just not brought the child that day and left it at that, but the OP decided to open her mouth and tell the provider that she didn't want her child to participate. Was that even neccessary? Let me put this scenario out there for everyone....what if the provider was gay and the OP asked that same question? Put yourself in the shoes of the provider (if she were gay) and think about how that would make you feel. I don't know that the provider was gay, but what if she were? Think about that.

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:07 PM
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I find it interesting that many here will not answer an "unregistered" question. Clearly hutchison4life registered and even mentioned that she was new. Why would some of you speak to her in third person and ridicule her as though she were not present? Even call her a troll? There appear to be some here that think this is "their house". I want to make clear that this forum will be used for information and content for those that are new and old in the daycare business. This forum is read globally and there is a level of professionalism and sensitivity that should be expected by our visitors and members.

I would hope that hutchison4life will come back and be included in the dialog here. I will personally email her and would like her to join back in the conversation.

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Old 08-06-2010, 01:18 PM
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I'm just wondering where the question of whether a preschool would educate about gay pride came from? By no means am I homophobic - my mother is a lesbian and I always participated in some way in gay pride festivities ONCE I WAS OLD ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND. I can't imagine it would be appropriate to discuss gay pride with preschoolers. Love, sure. Sexuality? No. So I would really like to hear back from the OP about the circumstances around her asking if the children would be doing any gay pride activities.

Last edited by Michael; 08-06-2010 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:38 PM
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Default Just for clarity

I never once said that I discuss sexuality with my daycare kids in any way at all, not for any sexual orientation. Discussing love is different than discussing sex. I just want to make sure that I am being abundantly clear on that point.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:52 PM
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I never once said that I discuss sexuality with my daycare kids in any way at all, not for any sexual orientation. Discussing love is different than discussing sex. I just want to make sure that I am being abundantly clear on that point.
Really? Oh well then.....'cause I thought you had the fancy laminated charts and everything!
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:56 PM
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I never once said that I discuss sexuality with my daycare kids in any way at all, not for any sexual orientation. Discussing love is different than discussing sex. I just want to make sure that I am being abundantly clear on that point.
If that's directed at my post, I know I just want clarification from the OP as to why it was even brought up.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Daycare Mommy View Post
Does anyone here really teach this stuff to preschoolers? Really? Sounds to me like maybe that's why the provider was insulted. Because what preschool teacher would take it upon him/herself to teach this at that age without the parents knowledge? I had a parent once make an off the wall request like this. After I had cared for his children for over a year, I gave them a little album with a bunch of pics from his son's birthday party. (They had signed a photo release when they enrolled btw) He immediately said he's alright with me taking pictures, but sternly requested that I never take pictures of the children with their clothes off. As if I would!!! I was so insulted and hurt by this I almost started crying right in front of him. I had just handed them a present and it really felt like he had slapped me in the face in return. I did manage to wait until they were gone to get really upset, but I did let them go shortly after.. If after a reasonable amount of time I don't have the parent's trust especially that I would so drastically overstep my bounds as a childcare provider, then I don't see the point in continuing the business relationship. I can't speak for her, but perhaps this teacher felt the same way..

The bolded part....see...for me if I heard a daycare might be celebrating ANYTHING - Gay Pride included (and yes, OP, I realize you did not say they actually WERE celebrating that day but for sake of arguement) I am thinking along the lines of maybe rainbow stickers and decorated cookies or maybe a craft with the rainbow colours in it or something.

I would never, ever suspect anything more. I think most daycare providers and centres alike have more sense than that!

I think of it no different than St. Patrick's day. We wear green and have green iced cookies and make a green craft. I don't make them all eat a lunch of hagus and/or go around sharing their spit kissing a Blarney Stone.

I too, would be hurt if a parent assumed that I would actually discuss sexual orientation or go further than that. Not only does it question my intelligence but my decision making ability, and most importantly, their trust in me.

Daycare is all about trust.
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:20 PM
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Really? Oh well then.....'cause I thought you had the fancy laminated charts and everything!
LMAO! Those charts are only for instruction for my DH!

(just kidding, hehehe)
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  #46  
Old 08-06-2010, 02:27 PM
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I still remember my daughters first week of preschool. She came home after only being there for 2 half days and we were eating dinner as a family she looked at me as serious as can be and said "Mom, I want a step mom!" She is going to be entering into Kindergarten this comming fall and I am still having a terrible time teaching her about divorce and answering all of the questions she has about it, due to all of the other girls in her preK class having divorced parents! So with this said, I cannot even fathom trying to teach a bunch of preschoolers about gays and lesbions, come on!!!
.......
I do wonder how this is layed out and explained to Preschoolers However! LOL
I'm sure there have been providers all over that have already had to answer questions regarding gay men and/or lesbian women. "Why does Timmy get to live with his two mommies? How come he only gets to see his two daddies on the weekends (or in the summer or whatever)?" I have a relative who is a gay man that is friends with a lesbian couple. He helped them (medically) conceive a child. This little boy is going to start kindergarten this fall. He lives with his moms, but his dad is still actively involved. I'm sure that has already (and will continue) to raise questions in the minds of many children.

I would think that for most preschoolers a simple answer would do. "Timmy has two mommies (daddies) because they love each other very much, just like your mommy and daddy do."
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  #47  
Old 08-06-2010, 02:40 PM
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I'm sure there have been providers all over that have already had to answer questions regarding gay men and/or lesbian women. "Why does Timmy get to live with his two mommies? How come he only gets to see his two daddies on the weekends (or in the summer or whatever)?" I have a relative who is a gay man that is friends with a lesbian couple. He helped them (medically) conceive a child. This little boy is going to start kindergarten this fall. He lives with his moms, but his dad is still actively involved. I'm sure that has already (and will continue) to raise questions in the minds of many children.

I would think that for most preschoolers a simple answer would do. "Timmy has two mommies (daddies) because they love each other very much, just like your mommy and daddy do."
Exactly! I agree 100%.
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  #48  
Old 08-06-2010, 02:56 PM
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The bolded part....see...for me if I heard a daycare might be celebrating ANYTHING - Gay Pride included (and yes, OP, I realize you did not say they actually WERE celebrating that day but for sake of arguement) I am thinking along the lines of maybe rainbow stickers and decorated cookies or maybe a craft with the rainbow colours in it or something.

I would never, ever suspect anything more. I think most daycare providers and centres alike have more sense than that!

I think of it no different than St. Patrick's day. We wear green and have green iced cookies and make a green craft. I don't make them all eat a lunch of hagus and/or go around sharing their spit kissing a Blarney Stone.

I too, would be hurt if a parent assumed that I would actually discuss sexual orientation or go further than that. Not only does it question my intelligence but my decision making ability, and most importantly, their trust in me.

Daycare is all about trust.
Smartest thing I've read all day!
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GretasLittleFriends View Post
I'm sure there have been providers all over that have already had to answer questions regarding gay men and/or lesbian women. "Why does Timmy get to live with his two mommies? How come he only gets to see his two daddies on the weekends (or in the summer or whatever)?" I have a relative who is a gay man that is friends with a lesbian couple. He helped them (medically) conceive a child. This little boy is going to start kindergarten this fall. He lives with his moms, but his dad is still actively involved. I'm sure that has already (and will continue) to raise questions in the minds of many children.

I would think that for most preschoolers a simple answer would do. "Timmy has two mommies (daddies) because they love each other very much, just like your mommy and daddy do."
I think these are very personal questions and should be explained by the PARENT. Just the same as when a child asks me, "Where do babies come from?" or "How did the babies get in your tummy?" My answer is always, "That is a very interesting question and you are such a big girl (or boy) for asking. But, I think your mommy and daddy (or whatever the combo of parent or parents are) would be much better at answering that question." Then I privately discuss (usually with a lowered voice so the kids can't hear) with the parent(s) what was asked and that I told the child that they (the parents) would be better able to answer that question.

Yes, the questions come up. But these are very private, sensitive, and intimate issues and I think that the parents should be the ones to answer these questions. That was my point earlier - maybe the parent wanted to be the one to explain what gay and lesbian means. I am a highly educated woman, fully apprised of what gay and lesbian means. I have relatives and friends that are gay and lesbians. And I will educate my children about what it is, what it means, etc. I do NOT want someone else teaching my child about this stuff. I want to use MY words. I want to be present for any education my children receive in personal, intimate, and sensitive topics like this. How does that make me, the OP, or anyone else, a hypocrite or a bigot, which was mentioned earlier? Unless we are now saying that parents are completely incapable of raising their own children as they see fit and educating them on sensitive topics.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:48 PM
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I think these are very personal questions and should be explained by the PARENT. Just the same as when a child asks me, "Where do babies come from?" or "How did the babies get in your tummy?" My answer is always, "That is a very interesting question and you are such a big girl (or boy) for asking. But, I think your mommy and daddy (or whatever the combo of parent or parents are) would be much better at answering that question." Then I privately discuss (usually with a lowered voice so the kids can't hear) with the parent(s) what was asked and that I told the child that they (the parents) would be better able to answer that question.

Yes, the questions come up. But these are very private, sensitive, and intimate issues and I think that the parents should be the ones to answer these questions. That was my point earlier - maybe the parent wanted to be the one to explain what gay and lesbian means. I am a highly educated woman, fully apprised of what gay and lesbian means. I have relatives and friends that are gay and lesbians. And I will educate my children about what it is, what it means, etc. I do NOT want someone else teaching my child about this stuff. I want to use MY words. I want to be present for any education my children receive in personal, intimate, and sensitive topics like this. How does that make me, the OP, or anyone else, a hypocrite or a bigot, which was mentioned earlier? Unless we are now saying that parents are completely incapable of raising their own children as they see fit and educating them on sensitive topics.
Well said.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:52 PM
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I think these are very personal questions and should be explained by the PARENT. Just the same as when a child asks me, "Where do babies come from?" or "How did the babies get in your tummy?" My answer is always, "That is a very interesting question and you are such a big girl (or boy) for asking. But, I think your mommy and daddy (or whatever the combo of parent or parents are) would be much better at answering that question." Then I privately discuss (usually with a lowered voice so the kids can't hear) with the parent(s) what was asked and that I told the child that they (the parents) would be better able to answer that question.

Yes, the questions come up. But these are very private, sensitive, and intimate issues and I think that the parents should be the ones to answer these questions. That was my point earlier - maybe the parent wanted to be the one to explain what gay and lesbian means. I am a highly educated woman, fully apprised of what gay and lesbian means. I have relatives and friends that are gay and lesbians. And I will educate my children about what it is, what it means, etc. I do NOT want someone else teaching my child about this stuff. I want to use MY words. I want to be present for any education my children receive in personal, intimate, and sensitive topics like this. How does that make me, the OP, or anyone else, a hypocrite or a bigot, which was mentioned earlier? Unless we are now saying that parents are completely incapable of raising their own children as they see fit and educating them on sensitive topics.
I completely agree! That is how I handle it as well.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:15 PM
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First, I agree with Crystal's and ProMom's posts.

It is a parent's choice to choose what their children are exposed to. If the issue of same-sex relationships is an item this parent would prefer to avert their child from or hold off for a more appropriate age, then that is the parent's right. Nowhere did the OP (IMO) offer any statement that should be labeled as discrimination. I do hope she joins the discussion and offers further information.

Being open minded is not simply accepting unconventional subjects. Being open minded is far more than that. It extends to being open towards those that share an opposing belief/opinion WITHOUT persecuting them for being different than you. Claiming to be open minded while persecuting someone who does not share your same belief is hypocritical. I can't say this enough: disagreements occur because of differing opinions. That is the true core of global disputes, social disputes, professional disputes...it *is* what is wrong with society. There is nothing wrong with everyone not having the same morals/values, opinions, and beliefs in life. What is wrong is persecuting them for being/thinking different than you.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Aya477 View Post
First, I agree with Crystal's and ProMom's posts.

It is a parent's choice to choose what their children are exposed to. If the issue of same-sex relationships is an item this parent would prefer to avert their child from or hold off for a more appropriate age, then that is the parent's right. Nowhere did the OP (IMO) offer any statement that should be labeled as discrimination. I do hope she joins the discussion and offers further information.

Being open minded is not simply accepting unconventional subjects. Being open minded is far more than that. It extends to being open towards those that share an opposing belief/opinion WITHOUT persecuting them for being different than you. Claiming to be open minded while persecuting someone who does not share your same belief is hypocritical. I can't say this enough: disagreements occur because of differing opinions. That is the true core of global disputes, social disputes, professional disputes...it *is* what is wrong with society. There is nothing wrong with everyone not having the same morals/values, opinions, and beliefs in life. What is wrong is persecuting them for being/thinking different than you.
Very wonderfully stated. I find it interesting that you can not state an opinion, even in a respectful way, without someone persecuting you. Tolerance goes both ways. My best friend and I are a prime example of what society should be - we have vastly different opinions on most of the hot political topics, yet we can discuss our opinions without judgment or persecution. We respect each others' point of view and we agree to disagree. It's very intellectual, civil and friendly. THAT is true tolerance. I just don't get the "you have to think exactly like me or you are a bigot and intolerant" ideology. It's an oxymoron. Thank you so much for pointing this out.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:34 PM
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Well I see both sides of the story as usual. However I am confused by some responses. What difference does it make for the parent to keep their child home from a Gay Pride celebration? Or if the parent keeps the child home because of the children having a Christmas party, or any party for that matter?

I ask because I once had a boy in my class who was Jehovah Witness. Every time we had any sort of celebration whether it be Christmas, Valentines, or anything like that, Mom kept the boy home. She didn't even want him to celebrate BIRTHDAYS. On the day of his birthday she whispered to me to remind me that it was his birthday. Yet he still came that day for some odd reason. Well I mentioned to another teacher (who didn't know this family didn't even celebrate birthdays) that it was A's birthday and she went up to him and said Happy Birthday! This little boy who was 4 that day, said..you're not suppose to tell me that. Then he ran off. The teacher and I were like what?!?!

Anyway while I totally agree with the providers and I disagree with the way the parents are bringing up this child, I find it ridiculous to terminate someone who have different beliefs than your own. The parents were willing to keep the child home had their been a GP event. Now on the other hand if they still wanted to bring the child and not just have him participate that's something different.

IMO I think its discrimination to terminate a child for not having the same beliefs as your own.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:57 PM
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very interested to see if the OP comes back to further explain...
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:33 AM
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very interested to see if the OP comes back to further explain...
They probably won't. If they do, I would be very surprised. I believe when one of the regulars said that this poster probably only did this thread because of the Prop. 8. The only thing that does surprise me is that they are registered haha

Last edited by Former Teacher; 08-07-2010 at 06:34 AM. Reason: added a sentence :)
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:30 AM
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Well I see both sides of the story as usual. However I am confused by some responses. What difference does it make for the parent to keep their child home from a Gay Pride celebration? Or if the parent keeps the child home because of the children having a Christmas party, or any party for that matter?

I ask because I once had a boy in my class who was Jehovah Witness. Every time we had any sort of celebration whether it be Christmas, Valentines, or anything like that, Mom kept the boy home. She didn't even want him to celebrate BIRTHDAYS. On the day of his birthday she whispered to me to remind me that it was his birthday. Yet he still came that day for some odd reason. Well I mentioned to another teacher (who didn't know this family didn't even celebrate birthdays) that it was A's birthday and she went up to him and said Happy Birthday! This little boy who was 4 that day, said..you're not suppose to tell me that. Then he ran off. The teacher and I were like what?!?!

Anyway while I totally agree with the providers and I disagree with the way the parents are bringing up this child, I find it ridiculous to terminate someone who have different beliefs than your own. The parents were willing to keep the child home had their been a GP event. Now on the other hand if they still wanted to bring the child and not just have him participate that's something different.

IMO I think its discrimination to terminate a child for not having the same beliefs as your own.
I don't know if you are referring to my example but if so, they didn't want me to have ANY Christmas at all. Not just a one day party. They didn't want him in a home that had a Christmas tree, Christmas decorations, Santa stuff, presents... NO Christmas anything that the child could see. The same for any other holiday that was Christian religion based.

Keeping him out of our house for the party we do wasn't the issue. That's one day not an entire Christmas season.

Also... this wasn't terminating a kid. The kid did not ever attend my day care. I didn't TAKE the kid because I wasn't going to rob my kid and the day care kids of OUR belief to celebrate religious holidays as much and as openly as we do. I'm not going to not have a Christmas Tree, presents out etc. for a day care family. I'm not going to miss out on having Christmas music during the season. I'm not going to stop making Christmas treats and cookies for the kids and their families.

We love all the holidays but Christmas is tops. It's my favorite time of the year and I just don't want it to be a decision the day care parents can affect in ANY way. My parents love how we love Christmas. They are right in it and are very happy to see the tree, presents, treats and party.

I won't give that up for a potential client. I don't care about being politically correct when it comes to my kids childhood and memories. This is my house.
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:47 AM
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I don't know if you are referring to my example but if so, they didn't want me to have ANY Christmas at all. Not just a one day party. They didn't want him in a home that had a Christmas tree, Christmas decorations, Santa stuff, presents... NO Christmas anything that the child could see. The same for any other holiday that was Christian religion based.

Keeping him out of our house for the party we do wasn't the issue. That's one day not an entire Christmas season.

Also... this wasn't terminating a kid. The kid did not ever attend my day care. I didn't TAKE the kid because I wasn't going to rob my kid and the day care kids of OUR belief to celebrate religious holidays as much and as openly as we do. I'm not going to not have a Christmas Tree, presents out etc. for a day care family. I'm not going to miss out on having Christmas music during the season. I'm not going to stop making Christmas treats and cookies for the kids and their families.

We love all the holidays but Christmas is tops. It's my favorite time of the year and I just don't want it to be a decision the day care parents can affect in ANY way. My parents love how we love Christmas. They are right in it and are very happy to see the tree, presents, treats and party.

I won't give that up for a potential client. I don't care about being politically correct when it comes to my kids childhood and memories. This is my house.
Actually I wasnít referring to you. There were several people who have stated they would terminate a child based on their beliefs etc. I mentioned the Christmas theme because this mother (the Jehovah Witness) too didnít want us singing Christmas songs, didnít want the boy to do Christmas projects etc. Heck she didnít want him to say the Pledge of Allegiance because of the reference to God! I was merely referring to religion all together. So my post was not directed to you. If it was, I would have said so haha

The director and I both (I was Assistant Director/Preschool Teacher) told this mother that I would not be changing my routine and/or curriculum. The only that would change was the fact that I would not allow him to do Christmas projects. I wasnít going to deny my kids Christmas songs etc just for one child. Out of respect for all the religions though I didnít teach the meaning of Christmas, IE Jesus. I did teach about Santa and the fantasy of that.

Speaking of memories: we had one parent who was raised to be Jehovah Witness. The grandparents were totally against and disapproved of our parties etc. Mom on the other hand told me that while she wasnít brought up with the Christmas and Valentines parties, she didnít want that for her children. Everytime a party came around, she was always the first to sign up on our party list.

Long story short: no you shouldnít change your program for one family. That would not be fair to you or most importantly the other children in care. HOWEVER IMO I still believe it is discrimination to terminate a child because of different beliefs.
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:59 AM
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Actually I wasnít referring to you. There were several people who have stated they would terminate a child based on their beliefs etc. I mentioned the Christmas theme because this mother (the Jehovah Witness) too didnít want us singing Christmas songs, didnít want the boy to do Christmas projects etc. Heck she didnít want him to say the Pledge of Allegiance because of the reference to God! I was merely referring to religion all together. So my post was not directed to you. If it was, I would have said so haha

The director and I both (I was Assistant Director/Preschool Teacher) told this mother that I would not be changing my routine and/or curriculum. The only that would change was the fact that I would not allow him to do Christmas projects. I wasnít going to deny my kids Christmas songs etc just for one child. Out of respect for all the religions though I didnít teach the meaning of Christmas, IE Jesus. I did teach about Santa and the fantasy of that.

Speaking of memories: we had one parent who was raised to be Jehovah Witness. The grandparents were totally against and disapproved of our parties etc. Mom on the other hand told me that while she wasnít brought up with the Christmas and Valentines parties, she didnít want that for her children. Everytime a party came around, she was always the first to sign up on our party list.

Long story short: no you shouldnít change your program for one family. That would not be fair to you or most importantly the other children in care. HOWEVER IMO I still believe it is discrimination to terminate a child because of different beliefs.
I think it may be a little different in a center cuz you have so many more kids. Maybe.. I don't know for sure. It just could come up a lot more often.

I didn't know if you were referring to my posts. After I reread yours I thought maybe you weren't.

I think this is another area where the interview is SO important. I tell everyone before the first interview that we are Christians and celebrate the Christian holidays. I learned to do this with the family that was not into it and have added that to my "no can do" list to discuss before I have them here.

I hate interviewing so I have to get that out of the way before I give up any time to them to interview them. I wouldn't get to the termination part because I get that straight before they come for the first of three interviews.
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Old 08-07-2010, 09:25 AM
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The comment that this child made about gay people prompted me to talk to the kids about love. I really and truly believe that love is such a beautiful gift to give and to recieve that it's shameful when people put restrictions on it. "2 men can't love each other" or "2 women can't love each other". How small minded is that??? Love is much too precious to be made wrong by people who are afraid that seeing a gay couple holding hands will emotionally scar their kids for life. Also, talking to children about gay couples doesn't mean that the children are getting sexual details.
I couldn't agree more. I had an incident where a 5yo DCG used the term "you're gay" like she was saying "you're dumb". She didn't understand why she couldn't say that if "mommy & daddy said it all the time". I asked her if she knew what it meant and she had no clue. It took that one time to get all of the rest of the kids to start saying it. The older kids of course knew what it meant and thought it was funny to use it a derogatory term. I discussed it with the parents and encouraged them to have a talk with their kids about what being gay meant and let the parents know that I would have a discussion with the kids about it the next day. None of the parents had a problem with this and I let the kids ask questions so they got "basic" idea about it. I read "Asha's Mums" to them which I had bought when my sister was young and had gone through the same thing. It all went well and the kids understood that it was not nice to say or use the term like this. We also covered the subject about how everyone was entitled to their own opinion as long as they were not mean about it at daycare, whether they accepted gay/lesbians or not.

Since then I had added this to my policies about learning about cultural awareness and personal beliefs: "All materials will be presented in an objective and impartial way and are intended to aid the children in developing a positive self-concept and feeling of pride in who they are as well as teaching them to accept and celebrate differences"

That being said, I understand that the question was about a gay pride day but I'll bet my last dollar if the pre-K was to discuss the gay/lesbian subject whether in passing and no matter how impartial and not actually have a gay pride day that this mom would have a fit.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:38 AM
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I couldn't agree more. I had an incident where a 5yo DCG used the term "you're gay" like she was saying "you're dumb". She didn't understand why she couldn't say that if "mommy & daddy said it all the time". I asked her if she knew what it meant and she had no clue. It took that one time to get all of the rest of the kids to start saying it. The older kids of course knew what it meant and thought it was funny to use it a derogatory term. I discussed it with the parents and encouraged them to have a talk with their kids about what being gay meant and let the parents know that I would have a discussion with the kids about it the next day. None of the parents had a problem with this and I let the kids ask questions so they got "basic" idea about it. I read "Asha's Mums" to them which I had bought when my sister was young and had gone through the same thing. It all went well and the kids understood that it was not nice to say or use the term like this. We also covered the subject about how everyone was entitled to their own opinion as long as they were not mean about it at daycare, whether they accepted gay/lesbians or not.

Since then I had added this to my policies about learning about cultural awareness and personal beliefs: "All materials will be presented in an objective and impartial way and are intended to aid the children in developing a positive self-concept and feeling of pride in who they are as well as teaching them to accept and celebrate differences"

That being said, I understand that the question was about a gay pride day but I'll bet my last dollar if the pre-K was to discuss the gay/lesbian subject whether in passing and no matter how impartial and not actually have a gay pride day that this mom would have a fit.
I like your post! It's nice to read a post from someone that isn't turning me into the person doing the discriminationg lol!
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Old 08-07-2010, 09:08 PM
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i agree that parents should be the ones to tell their children about these things. sadly, a lot of the parents who insist on being the one to teach their children about these things are the ones who never get around to doing it, or they have sheltered children, or they have bigoted views.

even still, it's their right to be the ones to talk about it. there are parents who don't want their children participating in "sex ed." why? because they don't want their children to have sex - and not KNOWING about sex means they won't have it!

they were going to show a video in kindergarten about "good touches and bad touches" and invited parents to view the video first if they wanted to. i did because i could just see my daughter screaming out in class, "one time my brother touched by butt!" and then being investigated. so, i wanted to see it and talk to her about it first. but not allowing kids to be exposed to things is of no benefit to them. if you know they're going to be exposed to something - talk to them about it and let them see/hear it OR keep them home. saying that you don't want them to know about "gays" is just as suspicious as it would've been if i had said i didn't want my child knowing about "good touches and bad touches." it raises red flags.

btw, i don't think 4 is too young to learn that there are gay people. i don't see a point in TEACHING about it - but if the subject were to come up - i don't see a big deal. my daughter was four when she saw two men holding hands at wal mart (which isn't common here) and she asked, "are those two men married." i said, "i don't know. they probably love each other." she said, "oh." end of story. had i reacted differently, she'd probably be making a scene every time she saw a homosexual couple.

i don't think we have the full story though. i don't see any daycare flat out celebrating gay pride. i have the feeling there is someone gay either working at the center or whose child attends the center. it must've been outlandish to cause termination.
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:41 PM
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The biggest question I have is, "Why was it even brought up"?


Unless the place is run by a group of guys who dress like the Chiquita banana lady with a few odd members of the Village people thrown in, or run by a couple women who have shorter hair than Marine drill instructors, wear more flannel than Paul Bunyon, and have deeper voices than Jim Reeves, I can't see why it would even be brought up.

And, if this was the case (suspicions) then if a person is so opposed to that behavior, why would they even think of leaving their child in that care center?
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:14 AM
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I don't know if you are referring to my example but if so, they didn't want me to have ANY Christmas at all. Not just a one day party. They didn't want him in a home that had a Christmas tree, Christmas decorations, Santa stuff, presents... NO Christmas anything that the child could see. The same for any other holiday that was Christian religion based.

Keeping him out of our house for the party we do wasn't the issue. That's one day not an entire Christmas season.

Also... this wasn't terminating a kid. The kid did not ever attend my day care. I didn't TAKE the kid because I wasn't going to rob my kid and the day care kids of OUR belief to celebrate religious holidays as much and as openly as we do. I'm not going to not have a Christmas Tree, presents out etc. for a day care family. I'm not going to miss out on having Christmas music during the season. I'm not going to stop making Christmas treats and cookies for the kids and their families.

We love all the holidays but Christmas is tops. It's my favorite time of the year and I just don't want it to be a decision the day care parents can affect in ANY way. My parents love how we love Christmas. They are right in it and are very happy to see the tree, presents, treats and party.

I won't give that up for a potential client. I don't care about being politically correct when it comes to my kids childhood and memories. This is my house.
In my daycare I stay far away from inflicting the day care children with my family traditions and religion. I am not here to teach them about religious belief. During the winter we have a Children's Day Celebration. We celebrate that they are the upcoming owners of the world and have discussions on what that might mean. We give the children gifts as a sign of our love for them not because of some overly marketed holiday.
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:18 AM
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I guess that this is one of the times where everyone will just have to agree to disagree. Given the fact that the OP hasn't been back to respond lately, it seems to me like this may have been a poster who registered just to stir up some drama. We all feel the way that we all feel and that's OK. If I offended anyone, then for that I apologize. It doesn't change the way that I feel, but if I made anyone mad with my opinions, then only for that am I sorry.

I think that I have made enough people uncomfortable that I should probably not be on this forum anymore and I feel a little awkward posting now. It's been nice to post here and it's been a nice place to talk to fellow providers. I'm going to delete my account on this forum but if anyone wants to keep in contact with me, I'll leave my email address so that we can keep in touch. Thanks.

jmainville1976@hotmail.com
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:34 AM
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Hey Janet! Don't do that! I'd miss your posts!!!
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:17 AM
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I will not give the OP a break on this subject. Kids learn how to discriminate in the first few years of their lives. Parents, whether they know it or not, help to shape their child's beliefs and if a parent is already setting the example that gay pride related activities are things that the chcild shouldn't be exposed to, then what do you think that the child will learn from that? I'll tell you. The child will equate being gay with being wrong and not natural. No disrepect intended but if you think that the OP's reasons for not wanting her child to take part or be around anything gay pride related is about the child being too young to know about these things then you are severely out of touch.

I just think that it's sad.
I think this is really sad. You are discriminating against someone's religious beliefs. If everyone was tolerant of everyone elses beliefs, than no one could truly say they believe in something. You can't believe "everyone" is right or you don't really have a belief system. We all have a right to our belief systems, and a right to raise our kids with the same morals and values we have. Just because someone thinks it is a sin to be sexually active with someone of the same sex, doesn't mean they hate that person or they are discriminating. They just have a different belief and want to raise their kids with the same belief system. It is their right as a parent. They just believe different. You are making people who have strong religious beliefs (that you may disagree with) afraid to speak up or be different. You are the one discriminating. I think it's easier to be gay than it is to be a christian these days. So sad.

Janet also said quote "Jesus H. Hubert Tap-Dancing Christ, lady!" - The way I see it, you have no right even speaking on this subject when you show such hatred and disrespect towards christianity.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:28 AM
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I think this is really sad. You are discriminating against someone's religious beliefs. If everyone was tolerant of everyone elses beliefs, than no one could truly say they believe in something. You can't believe "everyone" is right or you don't really have a belief system. We all have a right to our belief systems, and a right to raise our kids with the same morals and values we have. Just because someone thinks it is a sin to be sexually active with someone of the same sex, doesn't mean they hate that person or they are discriminating. They just have a different belief and want to raise their kids with the same belief system. It is their right as a parent. They just believe different. You are making people who have strong religious beliefs (that you may disagree with) afraid to speak up or be different. You are the one discriminating. I think it's easier to be gay than it is to be a christian these days. So sad.
Refer to my last post, OK? I already apologized for upsetting anyone and I'm done on this board. It's over, OK? I realize that I crossed a line and I apologized for it. I have my opinions and you have yours. I'm done apologizing.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:40 AM
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Janet, I think you're okay. You're simply passionate about this topic, and may have said some things that came across differently than you intended.

You have alot of great content on this forum, and alot to share with other providers, you shouldn't walk away just because of one minor disagreement. Geez, if I did that Idda been gon a LONG time ago
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:45 AM
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Refer to my last post, OK? I already apologized for upsetting anyone and I'm done on this board. It's over, OK? I realize that I crossed a line and I apologized for it. I have my opinions and you have yours. I'm done apologizing.
I heart Janet.

Stay
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:39 AM
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I think this is really sad. You are discriminating against someone's religious beliefs. If everyone was tolerant of everyone elses beliefs, than no one could truly say they believe in something. You can't believe "everyone" is right or you don't really have a belief system. We all have a right to our belief systems, and a right to raise our kids with the same morals and values we have. Just because someone thinks it is a sin to be sexually active with someone of the same sex, doesn't mean they hate that person or they are discriminating. They just have a different belief and want to raise their kids with the same belief system. It is their right as a parent. They just believe different. You are making people who have strong religious beliefs (that you may disagree with) afraid to speak up or be different. You are the one discriminating. I think it's easier to be gay than it is to be a christian these days. So sad.

Janet also said quote "Jesus H. Hubert Tap-Dancing Christ, lady!" - The way I see it, you have no right even speaking on this subject when you show such hatred and disrespect towards christianity.


It might surprise you to know that I do not hate nor disrespect christianity. I am a christian. I don't hate christianity, nor do I hate christians. I don't disrespect christianity, nor do I disrespect christians. I think that you are blowing my comment out of proportion. I feel pretty sure that God still loves me even though I tend to be a little crass at times.
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:41 AM
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Janet, I think you're okay. You're simply passionate about this topic, and may have said some things that came across differently than you intended.

You have alot of great content on this forum, and alot to share with other providers, you shouldn't walk away just because of one minor disagreement. Geez, if I did that Idda been gon a LONG time ago
Thanks! I do tend to get pretty riled up at times (not too often, but when I do I can be a little much...) Thank you for getting me I do like coming here and I want to keep coming here but only if it's n ot gonna be weird, KWIM?
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:43 AM
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I heart Janet.

Stay
Awwww...I heart you, too!!!!!!
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:19 AM
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[/b]

It might surprise you to know that I do not hate nor disrespect christianity. I am a christian. I don't hate christianity, nor do I hate christians. I don't disrespect christianity, nor do I disrespect christians. I think that you are blowing my comment out of proportion. I feel pretty sure that God still loves me even though I tend to be a little crass at times.
Please don't leave Janet! I look forward to reading your posts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Don't let a difference of opinion make you think about leaving.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:19 AM
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Please don't leave Janet! I look forward to reading your posts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Don't let a difference of opinion make you think about leaving.
Thank you for being supportive

I think that I will just need to work on not taking comments too personally. I think I'll stay because I like this forum, despite the bad direction that this thread took.

Again, thanks
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:07 AM
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I don't dislike you Janet and I guess we all can get a little heated from time to time. We just need to watch what we say and how we say it. I have read alot of your posts and many have been helpful and informative to me. Thanks for sticking around.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:50 AM
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I don't dislike you Janet and I guess we all can get a little heated from time to time. We just need to watch what we say and how we say it. I have read alot of your posts and many have been helpful and informative to me. Thanks for sticking around.
No problem. I'm the first to admit that from time to time I do stick my foot in my mouth. As far as I'm concerned, it's all water under the bridge. I've read alot of your posts as well and I've found them to be helpful and informative as well.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:16 PM
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The biggest question I have is, "Why was it even brought up"?


Unless the place is run by a group of guys who dress like the Chiquita banana lady with a few odd members of the Village people thrown in, or run by a couple women who have shorter hair than Marine drill instructors, wear more flannel than Paul Bunyon, and have deeper voices than Jim Reeves, I can't see why it would even be brought up.

And, if this was the case (suspicions) then if a person is so opposed to that behavior, why would they even think of leaving their child in that care center?
Funny chicken.

Sometimes members use this forum as though it was a chat room. It is not. We link to much of this from the front page of Daycare.com with many new visitors reading. Over 5000 a day!

Many that come here are looking to see what this industry holds for them. Some of the personal attacks here have got to stop. I am going to close down threads that get off topic. If you want to berate someone why not use the Private Messaging? Many new members leave because they do not have a place they can ask novice questions without someone taking it personally and that's unfortunate. The good thing is this forum gets so much traffic that it will always gernerate new members. Imagine how it would be it most stuck around!

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Last edited by Michael; 08-09-2010 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:31 PM
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I think it is a good time to delete this post Michael!! Lets drop it, we could talk about whether or not Brett Favre is going to play for those Minnesota Vikings this year or not, something a little less controversial! LOL Just kidding!!

Everyone just smile! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion! I am a relatively new member of this forum and I enjoy comming to this forum to get valuable information from very intelligent providers and no one has the right to belittle anyone on here and it needs to end here!! Lets move on from this and learn from each of our mistakes and tune into some of the newer posts!! Have a wonderful day!! Megan
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:50 PM
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I'll just close the thread JJ.
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:50 PM
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I am reopening this thread because hutchison4life emailed me. Here is the email:

Hi Michael,
It looks like I stirred up a hornets nest. FYI, I'm not a forum troll. I did not expect so many posts, many of which were off point.
I was going to respond with more info. about myself and the situation but I guess you've locked out the thread from further comments. Many assume that I'm some sort of bigot, homo-phob, or religious zealot, which could not be further from the truth.

I'm a San Francisco native and moved a couple of years ago. I've not lived that lifestyle, but I lived in a place that was very much. I respect people enough to not interfere or judge them for there choices. I follow the rule, "live and let live". Unfortunately there are those who think that is not enough and believe otherwise. Hence the 777 act passed in CA. 2 years ago.

Although I did not read all of the posts the preponderance of many were of concern to me and confirm my suspicion of some educators to be more inclined to explore those topics with children.

Many seem to take upon themselves to educate those things that should be explained by parents. As I explained to my sons teacher.

Yours,
hutchenson4life

P.S. I was at work when I posted, which was Friday. My son's Birthday was Sunday, he turned 4, I had alot going on the weekends. I also work on a computer all day, everyday, so am not very inclined to get on the internet when i'm home.
Thank you for contacting me, and I've read many more posts and was appreciative of reading most who had something to say. I realize this is a hot topic these days, but I don't think it should be. I really viewed my original post as an innocent request from the teacher/administrator. I view Gay pride as an example of ground hog day, Presidents dDy, it's part of our society. Whether one accepts or not.

Last edited by Michael; 08-10-2010 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:02 PM
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Michael,
Thank you so much for addressing this. And thank you for posting the response from the OP. Just as I suspected, it was just a parent who wished to educate on these topics at home, and not by some other person.

Hopefully, we can all agree to disagree on some things and realize that an opinion is just an opinion and that we do not all have to be clones of each other. In many respects, most topics are not black or white, but varying shades of gray. And we need to keep in mind that with the freedom of speech, comes the responsibility of speech. We need to keep the name-calling, insinuations, assumptions, etc. out of this forum and just simply, and humbly, state our opinions, without judgment of others and without fear of what others might think.

The bottom line is that we are all working very hard at a very difficult profession and need to respect each other for that. We need to be supportive of each other, not knock each other down just to feel better about ourselves. Sadly, we all want (and some need) reassurances that we are doing a great job. We so very rarely get that from our clients, DC kids, our own children, our spouses, or anyone else. Let's lift each other up.

As for Janet, I am sorry if I made you feel threatened in any way. I only wanted to convey that sometimes things are not what they seem. And with the OP, there really wasn't a ton of info. Now we can see more of the picture after Michael's post of the OP's email. We all have "issues" that are very close to our hearts and drive us over the edge. I do too. I will never pretend that I don't. That's why I TRY (even though I sometimes fail and the trying part) not to get too involved in religious or political conversations, especially if the person has vastly different views than I. I don't dislike you in any way. I love you. FYI - I can love a person and disagree with him or her. I don't want you to leave. I'm sending you a great big hug of friendship. If we lived closer, I'd gladly have you over for a cup of tea. I'll bet we would find many other topics to agree on and laugh about. Oh, and the cup of tea would have to wait. We're in the middle of a move and I don't know where the cups are. Or the tea for that matter.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:30 PM
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Default A Public Letter to Michael.....

Yes, thank you Michael for posting the letter from the OP. It does shed light, at least for me that this poster was in fact real. So thanks.

As for the comment you made earlier about us using this forum as a chat room. I agree with you to a point. However I speak for only myself but I have feel like I have gotten to know my fellow sisters and a few brothers () here just by posting. We all at least have something in common, which is of course our love for the children. So IMO if we seem to get off topic, it is not intentional. No worries though...you are the Papa Bear who keeps US and everything in control!

Thanks again for posting the letter AND for being a great admin!
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:38 PM
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I think it is a good time to delete this post Michael!! Lets drop it, we could talk about whether or not Brett Favre is going to play for those Minnesota Vikings this year or not, something a little less controversial! LOL Just kidding!!

Everyone just smile! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion! I am a relatively new member of this forum and I enjoy comming to this forum to get valuable information from very intelligent providers and no one has the right to belittle anyone on here and it needs to end here!! Lets move on from this and learn from each of our mistakes and tune into some of the newer posts!! Have a wonderful day!! Megan
I still have some hostility toward him for leaving the Packers! I may never get over the mental anquish that he casues me!
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  #85  
Old 08-09-2010, 07:46 PM
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Yes, thank you Michael for posting the letter from the OP. It does shed light, at least for me that this poster was in fact real. So thanks.

As for the comment you made earlier about us using this forum as a chat room. I agree with you to a point. However I speak for only myself but I have feel like I have gotten to know my fellow sisters and a few brothers () here just by posting. We all at least have something in common, which is of course our love for the children. So IMO if we seem to get off topic, it is not intentional. No worries though...you are the Papa Bear who keeps US and everything in control!

Thanks again for posting the letter AND for being a great admin!
Well thanks. I don't mind everyone getting to know each other. A lot of these topics get searched and it is important to me that they find what they are searching for. I run several businesses and wish I had more time to devote here but I can only put in so much time. I can make more moderators if anyone wants a try at it.
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Old 08-10-2010, 12:24 AM
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Funny chicken.

Michael
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While it was kinda tongue-in-cheek sarcasm, I was being serious about "why was it even brought up"?

With hutchison4life's PM to you, their previous location may explain why this was brought up.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:58 AM
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While it was kinda tongue-in-cheek sarcasm, I was being serious about "why was it even brought up"?

With hutchison4life's PM to you, their previous location may explain why this was brought up.
Kind of, but I am in/around Atlanta and nobody has ever asked me if I intended to take the kids to the "P i m p s and H o ' s Parade".... It just seemed so "out there" to me, I guess.

I wish OP would give a bit more info... It is such an interesting issue.

I also would like to apologize for assuming it was a "drama post" in conjunction with the recent prop 8 ruling. The timing added with the delay of a response made it a more plausible scenario than assuming the school would discuss any form of sexuality with toddlers, in my mind. I am sorry.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:14 AM
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Default I appreciate your comments, Thank you!

Hello,
Thank you to everyone for posting comments to my thread. ProfessionalMoms' post was especially welcome as others were also. I found it enlightening how this subject shed light on some peoples true colors and beliefs. Their are those who think, as I believe my sons teacher does, that they know better than their parents. I had follow up conversation with the teacher regarding my request, she took it so personally. I tried to explain to her, because of my life experience, some history, some of the harboring suspicion regarding Ca. laws. What was the harm of asking her? Should not a parent have a right to ask such things?
If I could describe the outcome I would call it reverse bigotry.
Has anyone heard of Ca. Bill 777? I find it curious that prop 8 was brought up but nothing about bill 777 that was signed into law. Prop 8 was a law passed by the majority of all Californians, whether you approve of it or not. Bill 777 was a legislative act passed by the legislature and signed into law by the governor. There is a vast difference between the two. California is and has been the leader for making many laws that are eventually adopted in one fashion or another throughout the nation.
For myself; I am active in my childs life. I am responsible for what he learns at this age. I am accountable for my child. I cannot protect him from all the things in the world, but I can influence him and explain things so that he is informed. I am not politically correct, but I do not teach hate or bigotry. I believe decisions have repercussions.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:05 AM
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I looked up bill 777. Here is a summary:

California S.B. 777
Summary: This bill would prohibit instruction or activity or the use of any instructional materials in public schools (or in some cases private schools receiving state financial assistance) that reflects adversely upon any persons because of their sexual orientation or actual or perceived gender. The bill also prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation or actual or perceived gender in any program or activity conducted by a school that receives state financial assistance.

I'm not sure why this bill would cause anyone concern though or how it influences this topic.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by hutchison4life View Post
Hello,
Thank you to everyone for posting comments to my thread. ProfessionalMoms' post was especially welcome as others were also. I found it enlightening how this subject shed light on some peoples true colors and beliefs. Their are those who think, as I believe my sons teacher does, that they know better than their parents. I had follow up conversation with the teacher regarding my request, she took it so personally. I tried to explain to her, because of my life experience, some history, some of the harboring suspicion regarding Ca. laws. What was the harm of asking her? Should not a parent have a right to ask such things?
If I could describe the outcome I would call it reverse bigotry.
Has anyone heard of Ca. Bill 777? I find it curious that prop 8 was brought up but nothing about bill 777 that was signed into law. Prop 8 was a law passed by the majority of all Californians, whether you approve of it or not. Bill 777 was a legislative act passed by the legislature and signed into law by the governor. There is a vast difference between the two. California is and has been the leader for making many laws that are eventually adopted in one fashion or another throughout the nation.
For myself; I am active in my childs life. I am responsible for what he learns at this age. I am accountable for my child. I cannot protect him from all the things in the world, but I can influence him and explain things so that he is informed. I am not politically correct, but I do not teach hate or bigotry. I believe decisions have repercussions.
A parent absolutely has the right to ask such things, or keep a child home if they have concerns. Without a doubt. It is very important as a parent to choose a child care provider or educational setting that reflects your own belief system.

For example, my sister is gay. She and her partner send thier daughter to a private catholic school because it is a very good school. It would be ridiculous of her not to expect that the school teach that homosexuality is a sin. Instead, she simply explains that is not the belief system that they follow.

You child is obviously much younger, so of course a simple explanation may not be the answer. The answer in this case may be to find a daycare/preschool that more closely reflects your beliefs. Is that bigotry? No. Not on your part, and not on the part of school. It is simply a matter of matching the child and the families beliefs to the core beliefs and curriculum of the provider or educational setting.

I hope that you find a daycare that more closely reflects your families beliefs.

I do apologize if I was unnecessarily harsh in my earlier postings.
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Old 08-10-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jen View Post
I looked up bill 777. Here is a summary:

California S.B. 777
Summary: This bill would prohibit instruction or activity or the use of any instructional materials in public schools (or in some cases private schools receiving state financial assistance) that reflects adversely upon any persons because of their sexual orientation or actual or perceived gender. The bill also prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation or actual or perceived gender in any program or activity conducted by a school that receives state financial assistance.

I'm not sure why this bill would cause anyone concern though or how it influences this topic.
To sum it up, it's not allowable to teach or practice hatred and bigotry on the taxpayer dime.
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Old 08-10-2010, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hutchison4life View Post
Hello,
Thank you to everyone for posting comments to my thread. ProfessionalMoms' post was especially welcome as others were also. I found it enlightening how this subject shed light on some peoples true colors and beliefs. Their are those who think, as I believe my sons teacher does, that they know better than their parents. I had follow up conversation with the teacher regarding my request, she took it so personally. I tried to explain to her, because of my life experience, some history, some of the harboring suspicion regarding Ca. laws. What was the harm of asking her? Should not a parent have a right to ask such things?
If I could describe the outcome I would call it reverse bigotry.
Has anyone heard of Ca. Bill 777? I find it curious that prop 8 was brought up but nothing about bill 777 that was signed into law. Prop 8 was a law passed by the majority of all Californians, whether you approve of it or not. Bill 777 was a legislative act passed by the legislature and signed into law by the governor. There is a vast difference between the two. California is and has been the leader for making many laws that are eventually adopted in one fashion or another throughout the nation.
For myself; I am active in my childs life. I am responsible for what he learns at this age. I am accountable for my child. I cannot protect him from all the things in the world, but I can influence him and explain things so that he is informed. I am not politically correct, but I do not teach hate or bigotry. I believe decisions have repercussions.
Look at it from a providers standpoint, especially in today's litigious society.

If someone is bringing this up right from the start, a provider may very well be a little gun-shy about where things may go from there.
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