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  #1  
Old 02-26-2013, 12:58 PM
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Default Terming an Entire Childcare

Has anyone ever done this? I"m very close and its nothing, nothing to do with the parents at all. I have an awesome group of them but its all the children and their behavior. This group has been with me 3 years and the behaviors are just getting worse not better. It's not one child in particular but 5-6 of them. I guess it wouldn't be an entire chilcare as all my SA are wonderful and I love having them here!

A few though of the little ones have sibling here (older) and I would lose them so in the end it would be about 8 children so that would leave me with three. No calls for months not even through CCR&R and even they don't get tons of call for chilcare searches.

I had company last week and they were appalled at the behavior these kids. They couldn't believe they way they were acting and asked what measures we could do for conssquenses (very old school so spanking was on their mind) but I said only time outs. The funny thing is I have talked to different people and its amazing how many can't believe the way preschoolers act these days and nothing it being done about it.

All my parents know I don't put up with anything from the kids and all back me up if there are problems. Its almost like I feel I'm getting to old for this and the nonsense that seems to go along with it now but can't afford to leave the career yet. I run a tight ship, always willing to try something new but its getting to the point its exhausting. A few other providers have said the same thing and they are all longtime providers.

The parents all seem to be having issues at home also and seem to be at a loss of what to do, so that helps me some days to know its not just me. 3 of them have said older siblings had behavior issues when younger but not to this extreme! Some of them have even noticed it at a younger age also and that its lasting longer.

We are doing wonderful with the outside time but now we have moved back to not eating. It seems like I get one thing fixed and then another issues comes up or we go back to an issue I already fixed and they were doing good at and now its a no go.

Thanks for letting me get this off the chest. I'm now off to comb the 5 hairs I have left!
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:23 PM
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Oh my! What are your ages? I remember another post of yours saying you finally got nap time working for these kids, it sounds like outside time is good. You serve meals/snacks,if they don't eat it I would not worry about it! What does the rest of your day look like?

I keep things as structured as possible, lots of stations, art time etc, If my kids keep moving they do pretty well, if I have a child acting up they miss the activity and I rarely see the same thing happen again...
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:25 PM
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Country-how many kids do you have at a time? By yourself?

If you have 9 or 10 kids by yourself, then the group is just too big, IMO. That alone would cause utter chaos. 11 hours a day, no breaks, no other teachers....no way!
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
Country-how many kids do you have at a time? By yourself?

If you have 9 or 10 kids by yourself, then the group is just too big, IMO. That alone would cause utter chaos. 11 hours a day, no breaks, no other teachers....no way!
I agree that it appears the ratios are WAY off! Please tell me you have an assistant??
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
Country-how many kids do you have at a time? By yourself?

If you have 9 or 10 kids by yourself, then the group is just too big, IMO. That alone would cause utter chaos. 11 hours a day, no breaks, no other teachers....no way!


The majority of my day 7 hours is just with the preschooler 5-6 of them. If its not one thing with one, its another with another one. I have 4 before and after SA that are just dreams and give me no trouble what so ever. I'm open 11 hours and have the preschoolers for 7 of them where its just them.

My own family comments on the behaviors and either hate coming home or have to hole up in their rooms (which they hate doing) till everyone leaves (2-3 hours).
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:35 PM
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I agree that it appears the ratios are WAY off! Please tell me you have an assistant??
Actually I can have 10 without an assistant but it can only be 2 infants (2 and under) or 6 preschoolers mixed with 4 SA or all SA.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:40 PM
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I was just thinking about this during nap time today

My reasons include the parents too.

I am having some of the same issues especially this week and was trying to write it off as the full moon

Today I had:

1 dck tell me "I don't care" when I asked him to stop stomping his feet bc my dh is sleeping

1 dck repeatedly sticking out his tongue and when I told him to stop he looked right at me and stuck out his tongue

Jumping on my furniture....., running wild in my house...., kicking my dog....

I feel so out of control

There are many other issues and the parents enable the behavior

So, yes, I thought of what I call operation cleaning house and replacing all of my families BUT I just know that a new set of kids would probably come with the same issues

Good luck! Chin up!
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wahmof3 View Post
I was just thinking about this during nap time today

My reasons include the parents too.

I am having some of the same issues especially this week and was trying to write it off as the full moon

Today I had:

1 dck tell me "I don't care" when I asked him to stop stomping his feet bc my dh is sleeping

1 dck repeatedly sticking out his tongue and when I told him to stop he looked right at me and stuck out his tongue

Jumping on my furniture....., running wild in my house...., kicking my dog....

I feel so out of control

There are many other issues and the parents enable the behavior

So, yes, I thought of what I call operation cleaning house and replacing all of my families BUT I just know that a new set of kids would probably come with the same issues

Good luck! Chin up!
I love my parents and that is one reason I keep at this. I'm so afraid of terming and then ending up with really bad parents. At least with this group they are so willing to work with me and be on my side.
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  #9  
Old 02-26-2013, 01:48 PM
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I have PRETTY MUCH done that with my entire daycare.

2 in December.
1 in January.
3 in February.

I have 7 left (5 full timers, 2 part timers). All is well, except for one set of parents. I never knew how much stress one family could cause you. Having them term themselves or me helping that along has helped tremendously. If you have done everything that you could possibly do, then I would slowly start terming them one at a time (most problematic first). You may find out that you don't have to term everyone.

Be careful, though. Start documenting everything ASAP if you haven't already done so. I just got blamed by the parent's of a child who assaults other children on a near daily basis for his behavior after suspending them terminating him. Shocking, I know, but it isn't unusual. Almost no parent these days wants to accept responsibility for their child's bad behavior.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:51 PM
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I know you said it isn't just one child but do you think there might be one that the others are feeding off of? A ringleader of sorts? Are there ever days when one of them is out? Does the dynamic change at all when one is missing from care?

Do you think getting a whole new crew will solve the problem?

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Old 02-26-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Actually I can have 10 without an assistant but it can only be 2 infants (2 and under) or 6 preschoolers mixed with 4 SA or all SA.
Yes, it depends on your state. I am in the south and can have 12 children by myself without an assistant (same number with an assistant as well, just the structuring with the ages is slightly different). 8 can be under the age of four and the remaining 4 have to be over the age of four.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:52 PM
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Woah .

I suppose if you are already full and you can afford to do it you can let one child go (one that doesn't have a sibling in your group) and then just advertise for the one spot etc. I know you said that there is not one child in particular that is worse but which one of the children has behaviors that you dislike the most etc and then choose that one child to terminate.

I would sit out and observe every day at different times of the day for at least 20-30 minutes to see what exactly is happening and who starts it. Take notes while you do it and be as detailed as possible. You'd be surprised sometimes to find out that you might have thought one child was the instigator only to realize that it was a completely different child altogether that starts issues. You might think now that it's all of the younger kids and then come to find that it's one or two of them that encourages and fires up the rest of the group.

For now I think that this is the prefect time to sit everyone down and discuss house rules. Post these rules at eye level and make sure to add pictures so that the non-readers can see, understand and be reminded of the rules also. Discuss the consequences of breaking these rules and start a "3 strikes your out" rule for really bad or consistent behavior. Start jotting down each infraction by child and discuss these infractions with the DCPs. Explain to the DCPs that you now have a 3 strikes your out policy and that if their child gets 3 strikes in a day that they will be getting a phone call and have the child picked up.

It's time to take control back of your DC .
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist View Post
I have PRETTY MUCH done that with my entire daycare.

2 in December.
1 in January.
3 in February.

I have 7 left (5 full timers, 2 part timers). All is well, except for one set of parents. I never knew how much stress one family could cause you. Having them term themselves or me helping that along has helped tremendously. If you have done everything that you could possibly do, then I would slowly start terming them one at a time (most problematic first). You may find out that you don't have to term everyone.

Be careful, though. Start documenting everything ASAP if you haven't already done so. I just got blamed by the parent's of a child who assaults other children on a near daily basis for his behavior after suspending them terminating him. Shocking, I know, but it isn't unusual. Almost no parent these days wants to accept responsibility for their child's bad behavior.
Last week I had kids out and back due to sickness. It didn't matter the group (it almost worked out to a different mixed up group everyday) the behavior was still horrible. It didn't matter who was gone, everyone still had issues.

I even had parents tell me behavior was bad even at home and they told the kids they were coming back to childcare and not staying home (vacation time).
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:00 PM
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I totally understand!!!

I love all of my families too, but sometimes I feel that they are fueling the fire.

I wish they would get on board with me and (for example) tell their kids no when they are jumping on my furniture.

A lot of the issues are my fault bc I am afraid to speak up and just "deal" with it. In my defense if my own children were acting that way at my child care providers home I would be telling them to knock it off.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:15 PM
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I know you've been doing this a long time, so please don't take this as criticism..

It just seems like it's always something, and I know YOU know that. That's exactly what you've expressed frustration about...

I just have a hard time understanding that all these children are rotten. So, terming them all and starting all new ones is not going to solve the problem, IMO. I am not saying it's all you, but there have to be some strategies you might have missed. Changing your layout, getting some new training on dealing with specific behaviors, modifying your expectations or your reactions, honestly, I don't know what to tell you at this point.

I do think that some part of you resents having to do childcare. You've said so yourself over and over. Do you think that could play a role in the dynamics here? You've lost your passion for the job? Maybe the kids sense this? Do you ever have "fun" doing this job anymore?

Again, I am not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm trying to help you figure out what the answer is....
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:46 PM
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The problem is that the children are trying to be the dominate ones.
PM Nanny DE.
She could have you fixed up in less Thank 1 week.
She has an amazing way of seeing things and looking at them.
She knows kids and behavior. She knows just how to get to the root of the behavior and stop it. I had the same issues as you do and now, I have the best crew I have EVER had in 15 years.
They sit and play nicely and quietly. They ASK to take turns. My 4 yr old asked my 24 month old for a turn with the most popular toy today. My 24 month old said, "allwighht, hew ya gow" and handed him the toy
I mean my kids went from hellions to angels.
nuf said
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:52 PM
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One other thing I've noticed based on some previous posts is that you keep trying new things to solve some of these problems. Maybe it's too confusing to the kids? I say decide how you want to proceed ie: punishments, schedules, naps, etc and stick to them. Don't keep switching things up so much, maybe that would help
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:27 PM
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Consistency is the key for sure. But I have definitely noticed a huge difference in not only the kids, but the parents from when I did daycare 20 years ago. It's all changed...and not for the good.

Kids are more of a behavioral problem, more used to getting their own ways. A lot of parents are not in touch with their kids and who they are.

But I still manage to get mine to behave pretty well because I also don't put up with crap from the kids and they all learn it pretty quickly.

Yesterday, my 4 you decided he was going to try to play some of his games. When mom gets here, he runs back into the house and starts playing with something. I had to go over, take the toy from him and tried to lead him back to mom. He started falling on the floor and not walking. Today, he tried to do the same thing. I told him if he didn't get up immediately he would go into time out before he left with mom. She stands at the door..."ok, I'm leaving now". He totally ignores her. He's an angel (for the most part other than him trying to be sneaky while playing with the other kids...like if he knows they like one particular toy the most, the moment they walk in the door, he will go grab up that toy), but the second mom gets here, he wants to start his games.

Tomorrow I am having a talk with him and when mom gets here if he starts this crap again...he WILL go into time out and mom can just wait for him.

I also agree...choose one form of discipline and stick to it tightly...don't let them get away with anything even the least bit because if they get that little window, they will keep pushing. Even if you have to have them all sitting in time out in separate areas at one time...do it. You gotta prove to these guys who is boss.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:30 PM
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what exactly are they doing
what are the hours you are open
what is your schedual like

maybe either call an assistant or take a day off and regroup.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
I love my parents and that is one reason I keep at this. I'm so afraid of terming and then ending up with really bad parents. At least with this group they are so willing to work with me and be on my side.
What have you done for yourself lately??? Are you taking care of you?

I find these questions tell a lot about my attitude~

Just saying-
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
The problem is that the children are trying to be the dominate ones.
PM Nanny DE.
She could have you fixed up in less Thank 1 week.
She has an amazing way of seeing things and looking at them.
She knows kids and behavior. She knows just how to get to the root of the behavior and stop it. I had the same issues as you do and now, I have the best crew I have EVER had in 15 years.
They sit and play nicely and quietly. They ASK to take turns. My 4 yr old asked my 24 month old for a turn with the most popular toy today. My 24 month old said, "allrighht, hew ya gow" and handed him the toy
I mean my kids went from hellions to angels.
nuf said
please share what you did to turn it around.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rmc20021 View Post
Consistency is the key for sure. But I have definitely noticed a huge difference in not only the kids, but the parents from when I did daycare 20 years ago. It's all changed...and not for the good.

Kids are more of a behavioral problem, more used to getting their own ways. A lot of parents are not in touch with their kids and who they are.

But I still manage to get mine to behave pretty well because I also don't put up with crap from the kids and they all learn it pretty quickly.

Yesterday, my 4 you decided he was going to try to play some of his games. When mom gets here, he runs back into the house and starts playing with something. I had to go over, take the toy from him and tried to lead him back to mom. He started falling on the floor and not walking. Today, he tried to do the same thing. I told him if he didn't get up immediately he would go into time out before he left with mom. She stands at the door..."ok, I'm leaving now". He totally ignores her. He's an angel (for the most part other than him trying to be sneaky while playing with the other kids...like if he knows they like one particular toy the most, the moment they walk in the door, he will go grab up that toy), but the second mom gets here, he wants to start his games.

Tomorrow I am having a talk with him and when mom gets here if he starts this crap again...he WILL go into time out and mom can just wait for him.

I also agree...choose one form of discipline and stick to it tightly...don't let them get away with anything even the least bit because if they get that little window, they will keep pushing. Even if you have to have them all sitting in time out in separate areas at one time...do it. You gotta prove to these guys who is boss.
wow I have this same kiddo!!!
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:46 PM
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Your "bright spot" seems to be school agers. Have you considered revamping your entire program and switching to a before/after care program ? Out with the preschool toys and PAC N Plays and meals and nap. Get some kick a$$ art supplies and science experiments and computers and gardening tools and models to build and magnets and all that SUPER COOL STUFF you can't do with babies and toddlers and preschoolers around. Maybe a bus?!? So you could pick up/drop off at local schools?

Just an idea. A good idea if I do say so myself. Hmmm.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:26 PM
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Hi, sorry didn't read all the replies, but to the OP, yes, I did pretty much have an entire turnover in my group. I only retained 2 of the 8 families I cared for (not all on the same days). I cut my hours, significantly raised my price, and lost a family to maternity leave and moving homes, and cut my group down to only ages 0-3. I termed 1 family for CHRONIC tardiness and huge late fees. Another I termed for total disrespect and unsalvagable relationship. Another I termed because the child was too old and not a good fit. I did all of this in about the same month or 2.

I knew I'd lose a bunch and had counted the cost before I made my moves, I knew I was going to lose most of them and that was ok. I had to do a ton of work advertising, interviewing, etc. But now I'm totally full again with a waitlist and seriously enjoying the radical changes I made.

Not saying you should do it, just answer your question. I certainly made enemies of some families, but now I have a totally different clientelle that are so grateful and respectful.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My3cents View Post
please share what you did to turn it around.
Well I setup a time a called Nanny de. Wow she has the sweetest voice. I had already emailed her a list of the problems I had been having so we got right down to it. I had a feeling that several of the problems stemmed from behaviors at home and was afraid there was nothing I could do. She assured me that children are extremely intelligent and with proper guidance would come to understand what is expected of them when in my care. Just because they whine, throw fits, sass and misbehave with mom, dad or gma does not mean that they cannot behave for me. The kids were trying to be the ones in charge. There are behaviors and little things that you do not realize that give children power, the wrong kind of power. Misbehavior should be prevented at the first signs. For example, I had a child that was always playing in a squeaky, squealing voice. I found it annoying but thought, oh well, it is just kids. When I spoke of this to Nanny De she made me realize that the squeaking/squealing would easily escalate into inappropriate behavior. When I began to pay attention to that I realized that it always did. She taught me things to prevent the kids from getting out of hand in the first place.
I am not good at explaining it but she makes it seem so simple. She also looked at my schedule and told me how to change it around a little so that the kids are more rested which helps for a better mood. I realized that the kids were competing to see which of them could be in charge.
Just something simple like getting ready to go outside; I used to open the door and the kids would all charge and try to get out. Now I lead my kids and they know it. They look to me for direction and I get a ton of hugs and I love you, Ms. C every day. They are happy and so am I.
There is just too much to write it all down. It is amazing what you can pack into an hour consultation.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:17 PM
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Rather than terming EVERYONE....think.....isn't there one child who is just a bit more challenging than the rest?...the ring leader. I would term him or her and see if that makes a difference. good luck.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:59 PM
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Your "bright spot" seems to be school agers. Have you considered revamping your entire program and switching to a before/after care program ? Out with the preschool toys and PAC N Plays and meals and nap. Get some kick a$$ art supplies and science experiments and computers and gardening tools and models to build and magnets and all that SUPER COOL STUFF you can't do with babies and toddlers and preschoolers around. Maybe a bus?!? So you could pick up/drop off at local schools?

Just an idea. A good idea if I do say so myself. Hmmm.
Oh, that would be wonderful but we have a boys and girls club that is less then $50 for the year so its pretty hard to even get the SA. I really lucked out with this group.

Even if I could get SA there is NO money in it. I would make a little more then working in the schools and that is what is stopping me right now from making that big step. Right now I can't afford to lose 75% of my income-
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:03 PM
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Rather than terming EVERYONE....think.....isn't there one child who is just a bit more challenging than the rest?...the ring leader. I would term him or her and see if that makes a difference. good luck.
No, that is the problem. All of them want to be the ring leader as they are all the youngest or onlies at home so they are pretty much used to no competition at home with kids their own age. Also, by at least 5 years difference for the ones that do have siblings.

Thanks for all the help everyone! That is what I like about this group-Ideas, getting to bounce things off each other, and in the end support!
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:49 AM
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I wanted to add that alot of it is about leadership. I needed to learn to be a strong leader. But, I didn't know how to be one. She showed me how to let the kids know that I am the leader.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:56 AM
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I wanted to add that alot of it is about leadership. I needed to learn to be a strong leader. But, I didn't know how to be one. She showed me how to let the kids know that I am the leader.
Thats what puzzles me as they all talk about how they need to listen to me as "I'm the boss".

One of them told the other kids "So in so was my babysitter but ***X is my teacher and I need to listen to her". Child came up on thier own with this.

They tell each other "your not the boss" ******x (me) is the boss/teacher.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:44 AM
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MizzCheryl MizzCheryl is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: North Carolina
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
Thats what puzzles me as they all talk about how they need to listen to me as "I'm the boss".

One of them told the other kids "So in so was my babysitter but ***X is my teacher and I need to listen to her". Child came up on thier own with this.

They tell each other "your not the boss" ******x (me) is the boss/teacher.
Yep, my kids did that too.
They would bicker a lot about it. You see, THEY (child #1) are the one telling the other one (child #2) who the boss is. See they are being the boss of the other child when they say that. In reality YOU (the provider) are the boss. YOU are the ONLY one who should be telling them. When they start that bickering YOU stop it, you say "SHHH!!! Go play toys". Then the kids go hey wait she is the boss.
Anyway I am not good at explaining it, That Nan's job.

Now all of us child care providers are nurturing and caring providers but some of us just have more of a nurturing side than others. Some kids do well with that (in the old days most kids did). Some kids see us very nurturing providers as weak. They see that weakness and they go crazy trying to find their limits. I didn't know how to be myself and still take over the leadership role.

Nanny De is the sweetest most nurturing lady I have ever spoken with. I was really wowed when I spoke to her. She has got it figured out. She knows how to be nurturing and sweet and a strong leader. The best part was that she knew how to tell ME how to become that.

She taught me how to break the behaviors down to the basic levels and prevent the misbehavior before it got started.
Man, kids have changed. This generation has put the children in the leadership role, and these kids are outta control.
All the childcare classes I have taken and the workshops I have taken, they have taught me worthless ideas that never helped. But learning to be the LEADER, now, that did it.
Yep, every once in a while one tries me again, I just step it up and LEAD.
Do yourself a favor and don't throw away a very successful career with a full house of kids.

The $50 I paid was the Best money I ever spent!!! Not even 1 weeks pay for 1 kid and all my behavior issues solved!
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