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  #1  
Old 07-14-2016, 03:06 AM
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Default High Quality Child Care??

They're hosting 5 public forums around the state during July, asking how to make child care affordable and available to everyone, and addressing the issues of not enough high quality care available. In the article, they said high quality care has 4-5 Stars in the rating system.
The state has made it very difficult to get 4-5 Stars so many providers have stopped at 3(including myself).

Personally, I think it's total BS that only 4-5 Star daycares are high quality. I'd love to know which ridiculous time-consuming 'take time away from the actual child's care' regulations set the pace for quality care.
Is it the 12 step hand washing rule? Is it the fact you have to wash an infant's hands(can't even hold their head up) under running water after a diaper change all while you might have chaos reaching a breaking point somewhere else? Maybe the daily 3 hours outside plus you still have to do all the art, fine motor, etc., etc., you're expected to do? Oh well, just haul everything outside with you.

Whatever happened to equating love, healthy food, good supervision, bonding, home away from home with quality?

Just another vent that no matter what you do, it never seems to be enough.
And of course, when parents see that, they assume 4-5 Stars is the best. So they discount all the rest of us as if we're not good enough. Gotta love those bureaucrats who sit in their offices all day, creating these stupid rules and hoops for us to jump through.
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Old 07-14-2016, 03:44 AM
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The issue is that no blanket checklist assessment form can accurately describe quality. So the big government decided it needed to spend a ton of tax dollars to stick a bureaucratic band aid on an issue which is much more complex than they truly understand. Money, which could have gone directly to struggling families or child care providers to OBTAIN better quality providers or better supplies...) Then the government has plausible deniability 'See, we did something! Look, it's better!'


I refuse to participate (it's not mandatory in my state....yet) and I am no longer a daycare lifer, I am working on my exit plan before big brother takes over.
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Old 07-14-2016, 04:34 AM
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"Quality" is a buzz word.

Like "transparent", "hope", "equality" and "change". They do not translate literally.

The goal is universal public school, birth to college graduation. With one curriculum, standardized tests and systematic record keeping.

Like Frost said : "how thoroughly departmental".
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Old 07-14-2016, 04:54 AM
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"Quality" is a buzz word.

Like "transparent", "hope", "equality" and "change". They do not translate literally.

The goal is universal public school, birth to college graduation. With one curriculum, standardized tests and systematic record keeping.

Like Frost said : "how thoroughly departmental".
and this makes me sad!
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Old 07-14-2016, 04:57 AM
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These regs that have nothing to do with quality care kill me. You are right, it is driving providers out of business, and raising prices to where many parents really can't afford care.
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:01 AM
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These regs that have nothing to do with quality care kill me. You are right, it is driving providers out of business, and raising prices to where many parents really can't afford care.
But the end justifies the means. It will give "them" (universal school advocates) the stats needed to push the agenda. The "problem" has to reach over the middle class income gap to get votes.

Maybe the OPTION of public school through college is a great one for some families. I just don't think it should be mandatory. After all, having kids is not mandatory.
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:29 AM
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I liked having choices when my son was young enough for daycare. Did I want him in a center? A montessori type place? A home daycare? Male provider? Female provider? Curriculum or just play?

We ended up choosing a play-based home daycare with a male daycare provider who was really active (walked to parks every day).

Oddly, this is not close to the home daycare I opened. I wanted to teach a curriculum- but that's mostly for my benefit, so I can get some use out of an otherwise useless teaching degree.

But the point is...I had choices. Things shouldn't be so cookie cutter. I feel it soon will be so standardized, every daycare will be the same.
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post

Whatever happened to equating love, healthy food, good supervision, bonding, home away from home with quality?
That IS care. They aren't focusing or aiming for quality CARE.

They are focusing on and aiming for EDUCATION.

There isn't any money in care.
The money is found in education (#student = $+)

I said it before and I'll say it again, Family Child Care is NOT the end game.

That ^^^^ is why so many quality care givers can't realistically meet the requirements for max # of stars.

Those with teaching degrees and a thorough understanding of the teaching process (both academically and developmentally) easily earn those stars.

There is a clear divide and if those that disagreed before about FCC no longer being in existence within the next decade are slowly starting to see the big picture.
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:51 AM
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"We can invest now in our children and families and enjoy long-term savings, with a more vibrant nation of healthy, achieving children and more stable families. Or, we can fail to make the investment and pay the price: increased delinquency, greater educational failures, lowered productivity, less economic competitiveness, and fewer adults prepared to be effective, loving parents to the next generation of children. Federal, state and local government, communities, parents, and the private sector must share in the responsibility of ensuring the well-being of children and families."

"Access to child care, particularly high quality child care, remains out of reach for many families. Programs outside of K-12 public education have the greatest difficulty in meeting the criteria of good quality, equitable compensation, and affordable access. Unlike K-12 education -- a publicly financed system with a relatively stable funding base -- most early childhood care and education services operate in a very price-sensitive market financed primarily by fees from families and supplemented by public and private contributions. Many families cannot pay the full cost of quality care, and the ongoing commitment from public and private contributions is seldom guaranteed."

"An equitable and sufficient system of financing early childhood education in the United States is still elusive. Child care is financed through a patchwork of government, parent, and private sector resources. Families contribute roughly 60 percent of the costs of child care; federal, state, and local governments combined contribute 39 percent, and business contributes one percent. Public schools are financed largely through property taxes, which has created an inequitable distribution of resources within school districts and states, despite additional resources from states and the federal government. An equitable system of financing child care and early education requires a strong partnership between government, families, and the private sector."

It is like a drinking game. Spot the buzzwords. Keep your eye on the ball. Wag the dog. Take your pick....
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:58 AM
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Oh, and with our current 52.8% graduation rate, I am uber excited to start that earlier.
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Old 07-14-2016, 06:53 AM
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Oh, and with our current 52.8% graduation rate, I am uber excited to start that earlier.
This exactly. I say, let's NOT give preschoolers over to the school system until the system can demonstrate a more acceptable success rate.

However, those advocating for the system say that improper preschool preparation is why they are failing nearly half of all students.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:14 AM
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This exactly. I say, let's NOT give preschoolers over to the school system until the system can demonstrate a more acceptable success rate.

However, those advocating for the system say that improper preschool preparation is why they are failing nearly half of all students.
I still don't understand that.

The research I have read, and studied in college, said the effects are gone by 1st grade and are only limited to a VERY specific group. Other groups REGRESSED in the same study. So, as long as the result is an equal outcome, it does not matter if many kids will have their outcomes lowered?

Maybe I read it wrong. I am of very average intelligence. I accept that. I do come from extreme poverty, though. I have been hungry. I have been homeless. I had limited medical care. I was latchkey.

I am middle class, now. I had no help other than showing up for class (Thank you USA for that opportunity ), studying, taking that first low paying job and EARNING my way up the ladder until I could afford college. I worked 3 jobs while in college and still came up short. I paid it off in 5 years. I learned more from the working, time management and paying off student debt than I did from the books and lectures.

I then gave that mid-level job up because I wanted a family. Home daycare was my solution to the problem of earning an income, even if lowered, while taking care of my family. I paid off debt, opened my business THEN had my kids.

My reward is that the very people that say they are helping disadvantage children are trying to take my livelihood for my efforts to improve my life.

It is disheartening. I have worked hard, in good faith. My view may be jaded by this. Kids learning personal responsibility is the only answer I see. Whether taught by parents, schools or the struggle to stay afloat may not matter.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:54 AM
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I still don't understand that.

The research I have read, and studied in college, said the effects are gone by 1st grade and are only limited to a VERY specific group. Other groups REGRESSED in the same study. So, as long as the result is an equal outcome, it does not matter if many kids will have their outcomes lowered?

Maybe I read it wrong. I am of very average intelligence. I accept that. I do come from extreme poverty, though. I have been hungry. I have been homeless. I had limited medical care. I was latchkey.

I am middle class, now. I had no help other than showing up for class (Thank you USA for that opportunity ), studying, taking that first low paying job and EARNING my way up the ladder until I could afford college. I worked 3 jobs while in college and still came up short. I paid it off in 5 years. I learned more from the working, time management and paying off student debt than I did from the books and lectures.

I then gave that mid-level job up because I wanted a family. Home daycare was my solution to the problem of earning an income, even if lowered, while taking care of my family. I paid off debt, opened my business THEN had my kids.

My reward is that the very people that say they are helping disadvantage children are trying to take my livelihood for my efforts to improve my life.

It is disheartening. I have worked hard, in good faith. My view may be jaded by this. Kids learning personal responsibility is the only answer I see. Whether taught by parents, schools or the struggle to stay afloat may not matter.
This completely!!!!
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Old 07-14-2016, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
I still don't understand that.

The research I have read, and studied in college, said the effects are gone by 1st grade and are only limited to a VERY specific group. Other groups REGRESSED in the same study. So, as long as the result is an equal outcome, it does not matter if many kids will have their outcomes lowered?
Same research I've read too. The ONLY benefit to EARLY education is for those that were lacking other basic fundamentals in the first place. Which is a VERY small group now days in comparison to how many children and families meet that criteria now.

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Kids learning personal responsibility is the only answer I see. Whether taught by parents, schools or the struggle to stay afloat may not matter.
That simply isn't going to happen until people come to realize and accept that in order for the standards to remain something worth working towards, there has to be equal and opposite results. For each winner, there has to be a loser. Someone has to be # 1 and someone has to be last. NOT everyone can be valedictorian. Participation rewards simply cannot realistically exist.

That is the mind set that seems to be butting heads with how "real life" works. I think that concept creates an ideal "life style" or what life will be like once adulthood is reached and then when reality meets that "concept".... well, that's when the infantile coping skills and the fall out due to lack of those skills come into play for society and in my opinion that is a heavy price for all to pay.
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Old 07-14-2016, 09:03 AM
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How do you become the most hated person in America?

Become the most successful one.

How do you define success?

Getting to keep the stuff I earned.

And that's what she said....
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Old 07-14-2016, 09:29 AM
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If I recall correctly the benefits of an academic based early childhood 'education' are only apparent in children at/below poverty level. Those studies have also said that the benefits are lost by early elementary school. I have also read that ALL children, regardless of socioeconomic status, in an academic push preschool do poorer later on in their early academic careers.

On the flip side- I have also read studies where children from a play-only early childhood experience not only caught up, they surpassed peers in grade school.

Maybe it's because of the socio-emotional development that was allowed to occur? Maybe it's because they aren't entirely sick of drill and kill academics yet?

Head start failed low income children. Why are we supposed to trust the government with ALL children?
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Old 07-14-2016, 10:05 AM
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Head start failed low income children. Why are we supposed to trust the government with ALL children?
Because the government still refuses to acknowledge they failed.

Nevermind that it was THEIR own test.
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Old 07-14-2016, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
"Quality" is a buzz word.

Like "transparent", "hope", "equality" and "change". They do not translate literally.

The goal is universal public school, birth to college graduation. With one curriculum, standardized tests and systematic record keeping.

Like Frost said : "how thoroughly departmental".
Buzzwords eat at my soul.
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Old 07-14-2016, 12:24 PM
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Yep! Preach sister! Me too! I've been doing this for 12 years and I'm ready to run for the exit too. I've been to the workshops and even participated in some of the program initiatives, but most of it is crazy! I just can't see providers doing all of the stuff they require on a daily basis. It's just too much, especially if its a one person operation. No way!
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Old 07-14-2016, 01:13 PM
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need a like button for the first three post I read.


Crazy!
My home business should remain mine! Parents need to be taught common sense on where they want to place their children. They can look for a good daycare or they pick to send their kids to where they want and can afford. Government should have there hand in only daycares that receive assistance. Regulate those. Private daycares should be allowed to run as they want because the parents pick them! Government is driving daycares right out!
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12 steps to wash hands.....lets get real.
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Old 07-14-2016, 01:23 PM
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And Hillary is preaching on paid family leave.

So, UPK on the older side, and PFL on the younger side.

Who is left for us to care for? 1-2 year olds? (And I've always thought of toddler-only rooms as a special form of h3!!)
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Old 07-14-2016, 01:48 PM
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need a like button for the first three post I read.


Crazy!
My home business should remain mine! Parents need to be taught common sense on where they want to place their children. They can look for a good daycare or they pick to send their kids to where they want and can afford. Government should have there hand in only daycares that receive assistance. Regulate those. Private daycares should be allowed to run as they want because the parents pick them! Government is driving daycares right out!
3cents~
12 steps to wash hands.....lets get real.
That is what is happening here in my state.

In order to participate with the star rating program you HAVE to accept state assistance.

If you choose not to accept state assistance or not participate with the star rating program then guess who's name, contact info etc are not listed near the top of the referral lists?

Guess which programs do not qualify for grants, special or free trainings etc?

So basically you CAN choose to operate on your own without the mighty government hand reaching in and regulating you.....but you are, in an essence "blackballed" and no longer viewed as a "sought-after" program and we all know how parents are when it comes to keeping up with the Jones's and wanting to get into the "best" program in town.
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Old 07-14-2016, 01:51 PM
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Hand washing procedures are exhausting. Probably impossible. I would love to see one of the trainers do this with a mixed age group in their home. Just once. While meeting the curriculum goals we are supposed to.

"Providers should wash before: Upon arrival for the day, when moving from one child care group to another. When hands are visibly dirty. Before going home.

Providers should wash before and after: Food/beverage preparation, handling food. Serving food. Bottle feeding, feeding a child. Giving medications. Playing in water used by more than one person. Eating food.

Providers should was after: Using the toilet, diapering and
toileting. Handling body fluids:• nasal mucus• blood• saliva
• vomit. Handling animals or animal waste. Playing in
sandboxes. Being outdoors. Removing disposable gloves. Handling garbage. Cleaning.

Wash children's hands: Immediately upon arrival for care. When moving from one child care group to another. Upon re-entering the child care area after outside play. Before and after: eating meals and snacks. handling or touching food. playing in water. After: toileting and diapering. playing in sand. touching animals or pets. contact with bodily fluids such as, but not limited to, mucus, saliva, vomit or blood. contamination by any other means.

How to wash hands: Get paper towel ready for drying. Wet hands with clear, warm water. Apply soap. Wash palm to palm. Back of hands. Ring. Back of fingers. Thumbs, Fingertips.Wash hands including wrists following steps below. Wash for 20 seconds (sing Happy Birthday TWICE). Rinse with clear, running water. Dry thoroughly with clean
paper towel. Turn off water with paper towel. Open rest room door with paper towel. Dispose of paper towel in a
hands-free trash can.

Infants: Prepare for Diapering Before Bringing Child to the Table Change the table paper (if used) to cover the table from the child's shoulders to feet (in case it becomes soiled and must be folded over to create a clean surface during the change).

Obtain enough wipes for the diaper change (including cleaning the child's bottom and the child's and teacher's hands after taking the soiled diaper away from the child's skin). Get a clean diaper, plastic bag for soiled clothes and clean clothes (if soiled clothing is anticipated).

Gather your non-porous gloves (if they will be used), and a dab of diaper cream on a disposable paper towel, if cream is being used. Supplies should be removed from their containers and placed near, but not directly on, the diapering surface before starting the diaper change.

Avoid Contact with Soiled Items and Always Keep a Hand on the Child Wash your hands with liquid soap and warm running water. Place the child on diapering table. Remove clothing to access diaper. If soiled, place clothes into a plastic bag. Remove soiled diaper and place into a lined, hands-free trash container. (To limit odor, seal in a plastic bag before placing into trash container.)

Clean the Child’s Diaper Area Use wipes to clean child's bottom from front to back. Use a wipe to remove soil from adult's hands. Use another wipe to remove soil from child's hands. Throw soiled wipes into lined, hands-free trash container.

Put on a clean diaper and redress child.

Clean and Disinfect the Diapering Area. Clean any visible soil from the diapering table. Spray the diapering surface with bleach-water solution and wait more than 10 seconds before wiping with a disposable towel or allow to air dry.
The recommended practice is to wait for 2 minutes to allow the solution to kill germs. However, if there is a delay of more than 10 seconds before the solution is wiped from the surface, this is considered adequate. The surface cannot be sprayed and immediately wiped.

The diapering surface must be sanitized after each diaper change with a bleach-water or other approved sanitizing solution.

Wash Your Hands and Record in the Child’s Daily Log.

Adult washes hands using the proper hand washing procedure without contaminating any other surfaces.

Additional precautions
All surfaces must be able to be sanitized- e.g., no quilted pads or safety straps, no containers that are stored on the diapering surface.

Toys that are played with or objects that are touched while children's diapers are changed must be put aside to be sanitized."
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Old 07-14-2016, 03:00 PM
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Add to that whole diapering procedure that you get one swipe down per wipe. I'm always folding mine to take another swipe. We go through enough of those things daily as it is.

I'm really glad I only have a few years left before retirement.
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Old 07-15-2016, 02:58 AM
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Because the government still refuses to acknowledge they failed.

Nevermind that it was THEIR own test.
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Old 07-15-2016, 05:53 AM
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That is what is happening here in my state.

In order to participate with the star rating program you HAVE to accept state assistance.

If you choose not to accept state assistance or not participate with the star rating program then guess who's name, contact info etc are not listed near the top of the referral lists?

Guess which programs do not qualify for grants, special or free trainings etc?

So basically you CAN choose to operate on your own without the mighty government hand reaching in and regulating you.....but you are, in an essence "blackballed" and no longer viewed as a "sought-after" program and we all know how parents are when it comes to keeping up with the Jones's and wanting to get into the "best" program in town.
oh I know......it is crazy!!!

I still think that in order to be a licensor that you have to have requirements and the front and center one should be that you have had to have owned your own home daycare for five years..... and the same for anyone above that!

The hand washing requirement is nuts. Schools don't do that! You want me to teach them to sing Happy Birthday while they wash their hands- talk about sending the wrong message!

I am a home daycare. I do things the way you would if you were at home. You can't control peoples living situations. You can recommend and give advice. The parents that are sending these kids to daycare need to decide if it is the quality that they want for their children. I opened my own business because I didn't want to be cookie cutter. I didn't like the cookie cutter daycares I had experiences with. Rules sound great when you are sitting in a meeting and creating them. Applying them realistically is another story.

Good thread, thanks for sharing everyone~
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:10 AM
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I have many thoughts/opinions dealing with this thread but after fighting the government locally, state-wide and nationally, it exhausts me! I am beginning my 15th year with QRIS and it isn't going away EVER! What is the use in fighting?
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
That is what is happening here in my state.

In order to participate with the star rating program you HAVE to accept state assistance.

If you choose not to accept state assistance or not participate with the star rating program then guess who's name, contact info etc are not listed near the top of the referral lists?

Guess which programs do not qualify for grants, special or free trainings etc?

So basically you CAN choose to operate on your own without the mighty government hand reaching in and regulating you.....but you are, in an essence "blackballed" and no longer viewed as a "sought-after" program and we all know how parents are when it comes to keeping up with the Jones's and wanting to get into the "best" program in town.
It is basically like that here. I can (and will) remain legally unlicensed. But I am not listed on any registry. I also can't take part in the food program even if I wanted to. I find that wrong. Wrong, because as PP stated parents should have the choice, and having the choice should come with having all the info, such as a full list of providers. Of course some parents may make a bad choice, but I guess that is their right as a parent just as much as it is some people's bad choice to become a parent.
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
It is basically like that here. I can (and will) remain legally unlicensed. But I am not listed on any registry. I also can't take part in the food program even if I wanted to. I find that wrong. Wrong, because as PP stated parents should have the choice, and having the choice should come with having all the info, such as a full list of providers. Of course some parents may make a bad choice, but I guess that is their right as a parent just as much as it is some people's bad choice to become a parent.
unlicensed here are allowed to be on the food program.....ironically in 6 counties, my food program lady has 42 unlicensed and 8 licensed...and the majority of the unlicensed are counting children as related when they are not so they are keeping as many children as I do....

BTW: My food sponsor turned these providers in and her bosses told her "they needed the count"....so just like BC has said "IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY"
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
unlicensed here are allowed to be on the food program.....ironically in 6 counties, my food program lady has 42 unlicensed and 8 licensed...and the majority of the unlicensed are counting children as related when they are not so they are keeping as many children as I do....

BTW: My food sponsor turned these providers in and her bosses told her "they needed the count"....so just like BC has said "IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY"
I do find that wrong. In my county, there were two licensed homes last I knew, because the gal that does it won't license us unless we meet center regs. She flat out told me "I want all daycare homes and centers to operate the same". So we are all unlicensed. But I feel that all unlicensed homes should follow the rules also. I know many unlicensed providers here are over ratio. I try not to worry about it. I mean the parents KNOW that, they would have to when they walk in and see a whole house full of kids. I can't keep a house full and provide quality care, so I don't do that. But in the end the parents have to decide what they want I guess. Sadly in my area usually they choose cheap.
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Old 07-15-2016, 10:54 AM
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The food program here allows you on unlicensed as well, I know a provider locally who has 12 alone, but they're all 'related'. The max is 6. She brags about it, my licensar is VERY annoyed. EVERY food program training they make a point to say something about her 'countless relatives'. She's been in business for over 10 years.

Sometimes I don't like the fact that I am a rule follower.
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:11 PM
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A while back in my state they caught a bunch of daycare center and homes that didn't actually even exist. People were claiming they owned a daycare and were getting food program money when in reality they had no daycare, licensed or not. Several of the "centers" were actually just empty lots. Still, the fact that the food program was actually sending them money for a while is pretty concerning. Of course, they're much stricter now.

And I don't know if it's just my state, but even our regulations have educational requirements in them. Maybe I'm weird, but I think that the regulations (AKA the bare minimum) should be strictly about basic health and safety. Actual health and safety, like realistic ratios and locking up dangerous chemicals and background checks, not washing hands every two minutes and sanitizing everything that gets touched.

If you WANT to have a standard curriculum and sanitize everything and have enough blocks for three children to build independent structures out of the way of traffic, then awesome. That's your choice. But trying to force every daycare center and home to check all those fancy boxes is ridiculous.

On top of all that, the bare minimum to be a center worker (any position other than director) is a high school diploma. Which is fine, but you want people with just a high school diploma doing all this educational stuff? And expecting it done right?? You only have have to take orientation within the first 90 days and that's pretty darn basic. I have to actively work to keep my room meeting all the requirements and I have a CDA and years of experience.
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by daycarediva View Post
The food program here allows you on unlicensed as well, I know a provider locally who has 12 alone, but they're all 'related'. The max is 6. She brags about it, my licensar is VERY annoyed. EVERY food program training they make a point to say something about her 'countless relatives'. She's been in business for over 10 years.

Sometimes I don't like the fact that I am a rule follower.
Being a rule follower is the worst Wish I had countless relatives lol...I didn't even mark my step nephew as family on the forms as he didn't "technically" count.
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Old 07-16-2016, 03:28 AM
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They should somehow need to furnish proof of family relationship. Anyone can claim family if all it takes is just a few words.
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