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  #1  
Old 07-15-2016, 08:19 AM
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Default Playing "Doctor"

I'm currently working on getting licensed and one of the things I have to do is fill out a questionnaire before the licensor comes out. I have 5 years of experience working with children, but I'm stumped on this question. I've never had to deal with something like this, and I don't really have much experience with school-aged kids (I'm not planning on taking this age group).

Anyway, the question is: How will you handle a situation where you find two school-age children playing doctor?

Stupid me, I initially thought "well what's wrong with kids playing doctor?" But then I thought about it more and what the question is trying to get at.. and I googled it.

How would you handle this situation?
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I'm currently working on getting licensed and one of the things I have to do is fill out a questionnaire before the licensor comes out. I have 5 years of experience working with children, but I'm stumped on this question. I've never had to deal with something like this, and I don't really have much experience with school-aged kids (I'm not planning on taking this age group).

Anyway, the question is: How will you handle a situation where you find two school-age children playing doctor?

Stupid me, I initially thought "well what's wrong with kids playing doctor?" But then I thought about it more and what the question is trying to get at.. and I googled it.

How would you handle this situation?
What state are you in? I find those questions to be insulting and inappropriate all together because you are right, what's wrong with kids playing Dr and if their question has a "hidden" meaning then I am appalled that any licensing agency would even ask this question.

In your case, I would simply respond by stating that you will not be enrolling school aged children.

SMH
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:33 AM
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Ugh I would be so annoyed with that question. I would respond with either not enrolling school age children or "any situation that arises will be handled appropriately and in compliance with liscensing standards."
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:36 AM
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I had this question! It also stated that the children are found naked. I had a hard time with this question at the beginning also. The bottom line is children are mimicking obviously a real life event of going to the doctor and their shouldn't be any sexual connotations put on a child's play. They are looking to see if you try to shame them for being curious about each other's bodies. I was told that obviously children should be discouraged from removing their clothes unless we are toileting and such. But that might be a sign that children are curious about their bodies and we should then teach them about their bodies and how they work.

Basically, I was told the signs of any abuse and that type of play isn't it.
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:42 AM
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I had this question! It also stated that the children are found naked. I had a hard time with this question at the beginning also. The bottom line is children are mimicking obviously a real life event of going to the doctor and their shouldn't be any sexual connotations put on a child's play. They are looking to see if you try to shame them for being curious about each other's bodies. I was told that obviously children should be discouraged from removing their clothes unless we are toileting and such. But that might be a sign that children are curious about their bodies and we should then teach them about their bodies and how they work.

Basically, I was told the signs of any abuse and that type of play isn't it.
Thank you!! Makes sense that we were both asked that question.. I'm from Minnesota too. I appreciate your help
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:49 AM
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I am in MN too. Those questions are NOT part of the STATE licensing process. I refused to turn one in.

The questions are absurd!

I took this one to DHS and to the MLFCCA and neither could find a state regulation saying we had to answer those questions.
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:13 AM
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I am in MN too. Those questions are NOT part of the STATE licensing process. I refused to turn one in.

The questions are absurd!

I took this one to DHS and to the MLFCCA and neither could find a state regulation saying we had to answer those questions.
How long ago were you licensed? Maybe this is a new thing required?
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:23 AM
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I am in MN too. Those questions are NOT part of the STATE licensing process. I refused to turn one in.

The questions are absurd!

I took this one to DHS and to the MLFCCA and neither could find a state regulation saying we had to answer those questions.
I had to answer a packet of questions for my initial licensing. You are required to fill out a detailed answer to every question or it's considered incomplete. There are questions ranging from activities for each age group to how do you change a diaper or feed a baby. Some of the questions are plain ridiculous to be honest but it's an assessment to see if you know basics childcare and how to handle situations you might encounter doing childcare on a formal basis.

Some of the questions are unrealistic or just plain silly. I even told my initial licensor this and she said some people don't even try to answer the questions or can't come up with an educated answer.
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:26 AM
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Thank you!! Makes sense that we were both asked that question.. I'm from Minnesota too. I appreciate your help
No problem, I just got officially licensed last October and I'm cute starting my renewal process. They changed a lot of things again within this year even. So I'm stressed again!
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:27 AM
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Just not cute!
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:31 AM
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Mn here too.

I would be tempted to answer it just as the way you took it - two kids playing doctor. "I would observe their play, and supplement with whatever appropriate implements I had on hand, such as hospital gowns, stethoscope, etc."

And I know of a provider in Mn who took the "this is developmentally appropriate play" stance in a situation like this, and lost her license. She had stopped the "exploration" part of the play, as not appropriate in child care, but stated that she believed it was innocent and developmentally appropriate. She had support of all of her families, and licensing didn't care.
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:35 AM
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How long ago were you licensed? Maybe this is a new thing required?
I've been licensed for over 20+ yrs.

The questionnaire you are referring to is NOT required for initial licensing nor for re-licensing.


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Originally Posted by MunchkinWrangler View Post
I had to answer a packet of questions for my initial licensing. You are required to fill out a detailed answer to every question or it's considered incomplete. There are questions ranging from activities for each age group to how do you change a diaper or feed a baby. Some of the questions are plain ridiculous to be honest but it's an assessment to see if you know basics childcare and how to handle situations you might encounter doing childcare on a formal basis.

Some of the questions are unrealistic or just plain silly. I even told my initial licensor this and she said some people don't even try to answer the questions or can't come up with an educated answer.
There are two different forms. The one you are talking about in regards to age ranges, toys and activities is the one the state requires you to fill out.

The second "provider questionnaire" where they ask you about playing Dr is NOT a state requirement.

Just because it's included in the packet doesn't mean its required. If it were a state requirement it would be included in the multi-page application that IS required.
The state has no right to ask you about your childhood or your family background etc.
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:40 AM
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Mn here too.

I would be tempted to answer it just as the way you took it - two kids playing doctor. "I would observe their play, and supplement with whatever appropriate implements I had on hand, such as hospital gowns, stethoscope, etc."

And I know of a provider in Mn who took the "this is developmentally appropriate play" stance in a situation like this, and lost her license. She had stopped the "exploration" part of the play, as not appropriate in child care, but stated that she believed it was innocent and developmentally appropriate. She had support of all of her families, and licensing didn't care.
Depending on which type of "Doctor" the kids are playing it may not be developmentally appropriate.

My point is that they can not ask the provider what she would do in this situation.... there are way too many variable and way too many personal and private influences and factors to be considered for a provider to properly answer that question. It is a leading question and one that purposely places the potential provider in a bad spot.

The state does NOT require those types of questions. I would stand my ground but not based on any personal thoughts or beliefs but based on the fact that DHS does not have a regulation stating providers (even potential providers) have to answer that question (or similar questions)
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  #14  
Old 07-15-2016, 10:24 AM
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I've been licensed for over 20+ yrs.

The questionnaire you are referring to is NOT required for initial licensing nor for re-licensing.




There are two different forms. The one you are talking about in regards to age ranges, toys and activities is the one the state requires you to fill out.

The second "provider questionnaire" where they ask you about playing Dr is NOT a state requirement.

Just because it's included in the packet doesn't mean its required. If it were a state requirement it would be included in the multi-page application that IS required.
The state has no right to ask you about your childhood or your family background etc.
My instructions said that my application would be considered incomplete and I would be denied a license. It was made out to be a requirement of my licensing process.

That's why I suppose I get negative on here. I believe everything is so progressive and bureaucratic and it's just caring for children. Not to belittle it but that should be the easy part. It is basically a way for the state and the county to say "Look this is what we are doing right, the provider was wrong!" I don't want to be part of a system that makes me out to be the bad guy. As much as they say they are for you, some situations I've seen don't imply that.

Don't get me wrong, my initial licensor empowered me on many aspects of starting this business but that is one person.
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Old 07-15-2016, 10:29 AM
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My instructions said that my application would be considered incomplete and I would be denied a license. It was made out to be a requirement of my licensing process.

That's why I suppose I get negative on here. I believe everything is so progressive and bureaucratic and it's just caring for children. Not to belittle it but that should be the easy part. It is basically a way for the state and the county to say "Look this is what we are doing right, the provider was wrong!" I don't want to be part of a system that makes me out to be the bad guy. As much as they say they are for you, some situations I've seen don't imply that.

Don't get me wrong, my initial licensor empowered me on many aspects of starting this business but that is one person.
I understand exactly what you are saying! Every situation is different....no consistency leads to chaos! Happens here all the time! There are so many departments no one knows what the others rules are and providers lives hang in the balance!
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Old 07-15-2016, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MunchkinWrangler View Post
My instructions said that my application would be considered incomplete and I would be denied a license. It was made out to be a requirement of my licensing process.

That's why I suppose I get negative on here. I believe everything is so progressive and bureaucratic and it's just caring for children. Not to belittle it but that should be the easy part. It is basically a way for the state and the county to say "Look this is what we are doing right, the provider was wrong!" I don't want to be part of a system that makes me out to be the bad guy. As much as they say they are for you, some situations I've seen don't imply that.

Don't get me wrong, my initial licensor empowered me on many aspects of starting this business but that is one person.
I know it does say that but it doesn't make it true.

I've been working hard with a couple other ladies (long time providers) at the legislative level and this questionnaire is one of the things that has a lot of people in a tizzy because some counties are telling providers they HAVE to answer those questions when you do NOT.

I have gone head to head with DHS on many of our licensing procedures, standards and rules and there is alot of inaccuracy happening all over the state. We are working hard to stop that.

I am sorry your county told you this was required.
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Old 07-15-2016, 10:53 AM
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I know it does say that but it doesn't make it true.

I've been working hard with a couple other ladies (long time providers) at the legislative level and this questionnaire is one of the things that has a lot of people in a tizzy because some counties are telling providers they HAVE to answer those questions when you do NOT.

I have gone head to head with DHS on many of our licensing procedures, standards and rules and there is alot of inaccuracy happening all over the state. We are working hard to stop that.

I am sorry your county told you this was required.
See, and I was totally unaware. I think also that the fear of being denied, which is such a smart trick on their part, makes you comply with whatever they tell you because you want to be accepted. Only after the fact you realize you have more rights than they are telling you!

It makes me a little steamed to be honest. My whole licensing process took a full year. I have a clean record, they even questioned me on it because I have a spotless record. They said most people have at least a misdemeanor. They didn't believe I was who I said I was. That's the thanks I get for living a law abiding lifestyle.
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Old 07-15-2016, 11:08 AM
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See, and I was totally unaware. I think also that the fear of being denied, which is such a smart trick on their part, makes you comply with whatever they tell you because you want to be accepted. Only after the fact you realize you have more rights than they are telling you!

It makes me a little steamed to be honest. My whole licensing process took a full year. I have a clean record, they even questioned me on it because I have a spotless record. They said most people have at least a misdemeanor. They didn't believe I was who I said I was. That's the thanks I get for living a law abiding lifestyle.
Perfect example! They do try and scare you...

It's not okay.

I too have been told it is virtually impossible to be in business for 20+ yrs and not have a citation. Its not impossible as I have done it (having multiple licensors too) and I know many others that have as well.

The gap is in the interpretation of the regulations.

Many counties have fabulous licensors while others have not-so-good ones that take the power they've been given and use it poorly.

One of the BIGGEST things lobbied for recently was training for ALL licensors. The same training not one put on by each county...ONE state implemented training.

Unfortunately while many of the things lobbied for were approved the training for licensors was tabled for later discussion I guess.
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Old 07-15-2016, 12:22 PM
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Perfect example! They do try and scare you...

It's not okay.

I too have been told it is virtually impossible to be in business for 20+ yrs and not have a citation. Its not impossible as I have done it (having multiple licensors too) and I know many others that have as well.

The gap is in the interpretation of the regulations.

Many counties have fabulous licensors while others have not-so-good ones that take the power they've been given and use it poorly.

One of the BIGGEST things lobbied for recently was training for ALL licensors. The same training not one put on by each county...ONE state implemented training.

Unfortunately while many of the things lobbied for were approved the training for licensors was tabled for later discussion I guess.
I can see why they wouldn't think you can go that long without a citation. In Kansas, my licensing lady flat out told me when she wrote me up for a couple of little dumb things "I can't go back to the office without writing you up or my boss says I wasn't doing my job since nobody is perfect". Now I didn't have this board then and never thought her to show me the regs on the things she wrote me up on, because there weren't any regs for those items, just things she said "should be corrected for safety" such as a hot pad sitting on the stove (not on or near a burner).
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Old 07-15-2016, 01:57 PM
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I think it's just absurd that woman said 'most people have at least a misdemeanor '... what in the world!!?? No, most people do not! That is just absurd. MOST people do not have any sort of police 'record' at all. That lady must be living in one heck of a neighborhood if she thinks is most people have a police record.
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:54 PM
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I can see why they wouldn't think you can go that long without a citation. In Kansas, my licensing lady flat out told me when she wrote me up for a couple of little dumb things "I can't go back to the office without writing you up or my boss says I wasn't doing my job since nobody is perfect". Now I didn't have this board then and never thought her to show me the regs on the things she wrote me up on, because there weren't any regs for those items, just things she said "should be corrected for safety" such as a hot pad sitting on the stove (not on or near a burner).
The licencors that keep showing up at my center in KY just go through things in each room until they either run out of regulations (and semi-made up regulations) or find a violation. But they leave the room as soon as they find one violation (and verify ratios). It's so ridiculous that I'm half tempted to just scribble a bunch of crayon all over the door as soon their van pulls in just so they'll write us up for that and then leave my room alone.

As for the original post, that question is absolutely ridiculous. Reminds me of some I've seen on center job applications.
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Old 07-16-2016, 08:07 AM
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I think it's just absurd that woman said 'most people have at least a misdemeanor '... what in the world!!?? No, most people do not! That is just absurd. MOST people do not have any sort of police 'record' at all. That lady must be living in one heck of a neighborhood if she thinks is most people have a police record.
Well I am in the Twin Cities! There has been a lot going on here as of late. But still, I know many people that don't have records and I find it disheartening that in my area the bulk of childcare providers have some sort of record. I do know that there is a big majority of providers who have spotless records also, so I did find this a funny statement.
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Old 07-16-2016, 08:12 AM
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Perfect example! They do try and scare you...

It's not okay.

I too have been told it is virtually impossible to be in business for 20+ yrs and not have a citation. Its not impossible as I have done it (having multiple licensors too) and I know many others that have as well.

The gap is in the interpretation of the regulations.

Many counties have fabulous licensors while others have not-so-good ones that take the power they've been given and use it poorly.

One of the BIGGEST things lobbied for recently was training for ALL licensors. The same training not one put on by each county...ONE state implemented training.

Unfortunately while many of the things lobbied for were approved the training for licensors was tabled for later discussion I guess.
The provider I knew didn't have any citations until the situation I pm'ed you about. It's sad really because she was a good provider. They also couldn't understand why she didn't have any! I started out my licensing journey with a correction order. It was really minor stuff and it was funny how some stuff she let me correct but other things she documented.

I think they are getting in trouble for 'not doing their jobs' when in fact they are and so is the provider.
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Old 07-22-2016, 07:35 PM
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Another MN provider here.
Just passed my first relicensing visit - Yay! However I remember that "doctor question" from last year's initial paperwork and how stupid I thought it was. Wasn't given a choice either. So many of the questions and paperwork I did seemed redundant that I just started answering with "refer to page ... and question ... for the information".
My basic answer to the doctor question was that unless huge red flags were going off to assume it was innocent play; redress the children; and continue on with the day as planned.

Blackcat, I was shocked to see in on of your other posts that the cost for licensing is dependent on what county in MN you live. I have to pay $200 each time! Now that I know you have never paid a fee, I will be bringing that up with my licensor to see how to get that changed!
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