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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>What Do I Do About This Neighbor?
Pestle 07:53 PM 07-03-2016
This is the second time I've posted a classified ad on Nextdoor and had this guy respond like this:

"I would like to stop by and look at the permits you have from the city to allow a day care/ child care center in your home"

So I just said this:
"[Name], please refer to the state and city codes. I am not operating a child care center; I am operating a family day care. I have been in contact with the city and am operating as a regulated family day care provider. If you are ever in the market for day care, I'd be happy to get in touch with you."

He really seems to want to shut me down. He told me last time that somebody else tried to open up a day care but got shut down.

So what am I dealing with here? Is he likely to try to get the authorities to come to my house? I keep my chain lock on the door all the time, so if he comes around snooping I won't just let him in, but now I'm afraid he's going to shut my day care down just as it gets started.

Any tips?
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Pestle 08:25 PM 07-03-2016
I've been through the city zoning laws several times and only see special permits required for child care centers, BTW.
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spedmommy4 08:53 PM 07-03-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
I've been through the city zoning laws several times and only see special permits required for child care centers, BTW.
Every city and state is so different on the permits they require. Where I just moved from, a special permit was required and I would have happily responded just the way you did with a reference to my county permit number.

The county I live in now is like yours. Family daycare is the only home based business that doesn't require a permit. My county has a brochure that references the law and, in your shoes, I would attach a reference to something like that for the guy. Usually it shuts people like that down pretty quick when they know you are operating within the law and there isn't anything they can do.
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childcaremom 02:02 AM 07-04-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
This is the second time I've posted a classified ad on Nextdoor and had this guy respond like this:

"I would like to stop by and look at the permits you have from the city to allow a day care/ child care center in your home"

So I just said this:
"[Name], please refer to the state and city codes. I am not operating a child care center; I am operating a family day care. I have been in contact with the city and am operating as a regulated family day care provider. If you are ever in the market for day care, I'd be happy to get in touch with you."

He really seems to want to shut me down. He told me last time that somebody else tried to open up a day care but got shut down.

So what am I dealing with here? Is he likely to try to get the authorities to come to my house? I keep my chain lock on the door all the time, so if he comes around snooping I won't just let him in, but now I'm afraid he's going to shut my day care down just as it gets started.

Any tips?
Is he your neighbour? Do you know him?

I honestly would not respond to him again. As long as you have all your bases covered, I would not worry.
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Josiegirl 03:32 AM 07-04-2016
Contact your town officials and your licensing just to double check you're 100% within operating legally. Then ignore him.

Does he not like kids or something?? I do know before I started this a million years ago, I had to go through zoning to get permission. Part of that was getting my neighbors to sign a paper saying they were okay with a home daycare in the neighborhood. But needing a permit here? Nope.
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BabyMonkeys 07:29 AM 07-04-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
This is the second time I've posted a classified ad on Nextdoor and had this guy respond like this:

"I would like to stop by and look at the permits you have from the city to allow a day care/ child care center in your home"

So I just said this:
"[Name], please refer to the state and city codes. I am not operating a child care center; I am operating a family day care. I have been in contact with the city and am operating as a regulated family day care provider. If you are ever in the market for day care, I'd be happy to get in touch with you."

He really seems to want to shut me down. He told me last time that somebody else tried to open up a day care but got shut down.

So what am I dealing with here? Is he likely to try to get the authorities to come to my house? I keep my chain lock on the door all the time, so if he comes around snooping I won't just let him in, but now I'm afraid he's going to shut my day care down just as it gets started.

Any tips?
"I'm sorry but for the safety of children I do not give out my address. You may research the code requirements by calling *** or by looking at *** website."
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CityGarden 07:38 AM 07-04-2016
I agree with double checking that all of your zoning / permits / licensing paper work is in order, then ignoring him. You already fully responded to him so you own him nothing else.

Something similar happened on a FB Group I am on and I took note of how the provider responded. She noted that sometimes neighbors are just worried about something simple.... like how parking and flow of traffic on their street will be impacted or noise levels if someone works from home, etc. and noted she was very conscious of potential items of concern and would be happy to privately discuss any of them directly with anyone concerned. She also said out of the respect for the children in her program she has set Open House dates and that any and all are welcome to come on those days. (I know from past post that her husband is there the days of the Open House to help out so I imagine she would feel safer at those times).
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284878 12:28 PM 07-04-2016
I would double check too. Then respond like this but worded better. Hello xxx, I have checked all the city reg and permits. If you feel that I have missed one, please let me know so I can get it corrected.

Do this and put the ball in his court.
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Pestle 04:50 PM 07-04-2016
It has gotten so much worse! Look at the comments that continued while we were out of town visiting family today:

-what is the name of your family day care

-I was wondering if you are considering it regulated or unregulated...state laws and codes are different depending on which it is...

-I do know the difference between a daycare center and a family day care center. It appears that she is attempting to disguise a daycare center as a family day care and set it up in a residential area. This is an issue that we need to bring to zoning and other Chattanooga agencies to make sure this is actually legitimate. I personally do not want the additional traffic this will bring into the neighborhood as a family day care center or a daycare center whichever you may choose to call it. If you review the pictures posted it looks like it is set up totally as a business not as a residence.

-I don't know the [family name] but unless there is a specific traffic issues impacting you personally, let's not overact. I think it is OK if our neighbors want to create a small home business, trying to survive this dismal economy. If the traffic becomes an issue, approach your neighbor, being a good neighbor, and have a discussion about the issue and work with them to solve it. Why would you want to get the government involved.
Daycare is an issue all working families with small children are trying to solve without costing them an arm an leg. If a neighbor, who you trust and know, wants to make some extra money and take care of neighborhood kids for working families, I am in full support. It is a win for everyone, especially the working families and kids.

-My concern is not traffic and yes there are legitimate Inhome facilities. I am by no means a BIG government advocate however I did work for Human Services for 30 years and there are laws regarding day care/family care providers for a good reason. All legitimate providers will have proof of their certification.

-I have asked our council person [name] to look into this

And my response:

Neighbors, I am running a family day care. A family day care has no need for a special permit and is acceptable in zone R1 in the [City]. A family day care has up to 7 children if it is licensed; a regulated but unlicensed family day care has up to 4. I currently have 3 children and am looking to add a fourth. Since my home is 2 blocks from [entry road to neighborhood] and can fit 3 cars in the driveway, I do not believe you will experience any change in the traffic at your own homes.

I am pursuing my license, but the City does not yet have any projected date to kick off their next session for new licenses. I have been in touch with the City licensing office (several times) and am following their instructions.

I am a homeschooling mom. That's why my dining room is set up as a classroom! The carpeted space in the photos is a former carport that the previous homeowner converted into a very large bonus space, which is perfect for the children's playroom.

I'm flattered that you say it looks like a business; I have done a lot of hard work to ensure that my day care kids are in a safe, appropriate environment. Family day care is not a casual babysitting affair; it's my responsibility to provide a stable learning environment for the children of working parents. Since I used to work outside of the home, I know how stressful it is for parents to find reliable, quality care.

Since so much concern has been raised here, I will be contacting the City again tomorrow to double-check that I'm in full compliance with all requirements. I'm happy to be a homeowner in [neighborhood] and intend to be the best neighbor possible.
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LysesKids 05:23 PM 07-04-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
It has gotten so much worse! Look at the comments that continued while we were out of town visiting family today:

-what is the name of your family day care

-I was wondering if you are considering it regulated or unregulated...state laws and codes are different depending on which it is...

-I do know the difference between a daycare center and a family day care center. It appears that she is attempting to disguise a daycare center as a family day care and set it up in a residential area. This is an issue that we need to bring to zoning and other Chattanooga agencies to make sure this is actually legitimate. I personally do not want the additional traffic this will bring into the neighborhood as a family day care center or a daycare center whichever you may choose to call it. If you review the pictures posted it looks like it is set up totally as a business not as a residence.

-I don't know the [family name] but unless there is a specific traffic issues impacting you personally, let's not overact. I think it is OK if our neighbors want to create a small home business, trying to survive this dismal economy. If the traffic becomes an issue, approach your neighbor, being a good neighbor, and have a discussion about the issue and work with them to solve it. Why would you want to get the government involved.
Daycare is an issue all working families with small children are trying to solve without costing them an arm an leg. If a neighbor, who you trust and know, wants to make some extra money and take care of neighborhood kids for working families, I am in full support. It is a win for everyone, especially the working families and kids.

-My concern is not traffic and yes there are legitimate Inhome facilities. I am by no means a BIG government advocate however I did work for Human Services for 30 years and there are laws regarding day care/family care providers for a good reason. All legitimate providers will have proof of their certification.

-I have asked our council person [name] to look into this

And my response:

Neighbors, I am running a family day care. A family day care has no need for a special permit and is acceptable in zone R1 in the [City]. A family day care has up to 7 children if it is licensed; a regulated but unlicensed family day care has up to 4. I currently have 3 children and am looking to add a fourth. Since my home is 2 blocks from [entry road to neighborhood] and can fit 3 cars in the driveway, I do not believe you will experience any change in the traffic at your own homes.

I am pursuing my license, but the City does not yet have any projected date to kick off their next session for new licenses. I have been in touch with the City licensing office (several times) and am following their instructions.

I am a homeschooling mom. That's why my dining room is set up as a classroom! The carpeted space in the photos is a former carport that the previous homeowner converted into a very large bonus space, which is perfect for the children's playroom.

I'm flattered that you say it looks like a business; I have done a lot of hard work to ensure that my day care kids are in a safe, appropriate environment. Family day care is not a casual babysitting affair; it's my responsibility to provide a stable learning environment for the children of working parents. Since I used to work outside of the home, I know how stressful it is for parents to find reliable, quality care.

Since so much concern has been raised here, I will be contacting the City again tomorrow to double-check that I'm in full compliance with all requirements. I'm happy to be a homeowner in [neighborhood] and intend to be the best neighbor possible.
Yeah, I had issues a year ago where I live, (after being open 1.5 years already) because of a new person managing my community in Blount Co. I threatened legal action when she refused to back off even after showing her the laws & proof I was legal; the lawyer was enough to get her off my case.

Regardless of being legally licensed exempt or licensed, I can only take 4 infants because that is all I do; kids under 24 months. TN won't even do registration as an in between licensing & license exempt anymore unless you take Foster kids in for care (which I do)... that means jumping all the licensing rules except the requirement for manufactured housing being 24x 48 (mine is 14x56). The only other difference is I am not stuck in the QRIS garbage that licensed homes have to do ( it is not an option)
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Mike 06:00 PM 07-04-2016
Personally, neighbor or not, unless this guy is some licensed authority looking into your business for a legitimate reason, I would just tell him you are running by all laws and regulations and ignore him.
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Pestle 06:43 PM 07-04-2016
Thanks, LK! So it looks like the person who said she had oodles of experience and knows for sure that I need proof of registration . . . is either a troublemaker or just out-of-date on her info.

It was pretty terrifying to come home and find half a dozen neighbors having this discussion about me, and to learn that one has already reported me to the city council!
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Annalee 07:41 PM 07-04-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
Thanks, LK! So it looks like the person who said she had oodles of experience and knows for sure that I need proof of registration . . . is either a troublemaker or just out-of-date on her info.

It was pretty terrifying to come home and find half a dozen neighbors having this discussion about me, and to learn that one has already reported me to the city council!
Not sure what city you are in, but I am in Tennessee as well. There are big cities like Memphis and Nashville that not only have to meet licensing but city ordinances trump licensing....some areas affected are having a business/daycare, child/adult ratio, etc. I don't have this issue in my county but I hear others speak of these issues at workshops I have attended. Just get with your city/county officials and I am sure they can give you the rules/guidelines.... Good luck!
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Pestle 09:08 PM 07-04-2016
Thanks, all! Yes, I've been through all the city zoning regulations, and I've spoken with the city licensing staff twice to make sure I'm in compliance . . . what a headache! When I came home and saw that half a dozen neighbors had all been continuing the initial conversation, and were making accusatory statements, and said they'd reported me to the city council, I freaked out.
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Bookworm 11:46 PM 07-04-2016
IMO, this is on the edge of harassment. Once you've told him that you are within the law, he should have backed off. I agree with the others that you shouldn't respond to him anymore. If he continues, I would go the police.
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childcaremom 02:23 AM 07-05-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
It has gotten so much worse! Look at the comments that continued while we were out of town visiting family today:

-what is the name of your family day care

-I was wondering if you are considering it regulated or unregulated...state laws and codes are different depending on which it is...

-I do know the difference between a daycare center and a family day care center. It appears that she is attempting to disguise a daycare center as a family day care and set it up in a residential area. This is an issue that we need to bring to zoning and other Chattanooga agencies to make sure this is actually legitimate. I personally do not want the additional traffic this will bring into the neighborhood as a family day care center or a daycare center whichever you may choose to call it. If you review the pictures posted it looks like it is set up totally as a business not as a residence.

-I don't know the [family name] but unless there is a specific traffic issues impacting you personally, let's not overact. I think it is OK if our neighbors want to create a small home business, trying to survive this dismal economy. If the traffic becomes an issue, approach your neighbor, being a good neighbor, and have a discussion about the issue and work with them to solve it. Why would you want to get the government involved.
Daycare is an issue all working families with small children are trying to solve without costing them an arm an leg. If a neighbor, who you trust and know, wants to make some extra money and take care of neighborhood kids for working families, I am in full support. It is a win for everyone, especially the working families and kids.

-My concern is not traffic and yes there are legitimate Inhome facilities. I am by no means a BIG government advocate however I did work for Human Services for 30 years and there are laws regarding day care/family care providers for a good reason. All legitimate providers will have proof of their certification.

-I have asked our council person [name] to look into this

And my response:

Neighbors, I am running a family day care. A family day care has no need for a special permit and is acceptable in zone R1 in the [City]. A family day care has up to 7 children if it is licensed; a regulated but unlicensed family day care has up to 4. I currently have 3 children and am looking to add a fourth. Since my home is 2 blocks from [entry road to neighborhood] and can fit 3 cars in the driveway, I do not believe you will experience any change in the traffic at your own homes.

I am pursuing my license, but the City does not yet have any projected date to kick off their next session for new licenses. I have been in touch with the City licensing office (several times) and am following their instructions.

I am a homeschooling mom. That's why my dining room is set up as a classroom! The carpeted space in the photos is a former carport that the previous homeowner converted into a very large bonus space, which is perfect for the children's playroom.

I'm flattered that you say it looks like a business; I have done a lot of hard work to ensure that my day care kids are in a safe, appropriate environment. Family day care is not a casual babysitting affair; it's my responsibility to provide a stable learning environment for the children of working parents. Since I used to work outside of the home, I know how stressful it is for parents to find reliable, quality care.

Since so much concern has been raised here, I will be contacting the City again tomorrow to double-check that I'm in full compliance with all requirements. I'm happy to be a homeowner in [neighborhood] and intend to be the best neighbor possible.
At this point, I would not be offering any more information to them. Period.

I don't know this website but I would take a screenshot of all the comments, take down the ad (does that remove the comments?), and then put a new one up. Stating somewhere in your new ad that you are operating as a legal family home daycare (or whatever the correct term is for your area).

If it continues, I would do as above suggested and contact a lawyer.

Do you know these people? Are they your direct neighbours? I understand that they have concerns (not saying I agree with them but they are entitled to their opinion ) but they should be taking them up with officials, not with individual businesses who are operating within the parameters of the law. They sound like they have too much time on their hands.
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Josiegirl 02:23 AM 07-05-2016
It sounds like this person has to find out for himself that you're a legitimate home provider, so let his councilman find out and tell him you're within the law. It certainly isn't going to give him peace of mind if it comes from you.

Your response was wonderfully professional! If you've got all your ducks in a row, it shouldn't be a problem anyways. I don't know why some people come down so hard on legally run daycare but then you've got some with hoards of kids, running wild, and you don't hear of anyone checking them out or questioning if they're legal. I did like the one response about being a good neighbor.

Try not to let it stress you out. Sounds like you're doing just fine! Just Sounds like you have a major pot-stirrer within your neighborhood.
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DaveA 04:49 AM 07-05-2016
Like the others have said- do what you need to so you are sure you are in compliance with local rules, then ignore the nosy SOB.
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NightOwl 08:20 AM 07-05-2016
Your response was fantastic! Very well thought out and professional. Has anyone responded to your comment?
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Pestle 08:27 AM 07-05-2016
Yes--the "I'm an expert in human services and I know you have to have proof of certification" person calmed down and got a little apologetic. I took screenshots of all of it, and I'm just going to leave it alone and see what happens.

BLECH!
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:48 AM 07-07-2016
You handled it so well. Good for you. Glad the rude man calmed down a bit. YIKES.
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Pestle 12:01 PM 07-09-2016
Thanks, all! The licensing office says I'm just fine. They were super-friendly. The city council member says Mr. Grouch didn't write her; he came up to her at a picnic, and she told him she'd need something written if he was making a complaint. So there you go.
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Thriftylady 12:41 PM 07-09-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
Thanks, all! The licensing office says I'm just fine. They were super-friendly. The city council member says Mr. Grouch didn't write her; he came up to her at a picnic, and she told him she'd need something written if he was making a complaint. So there you go.
Funny how when something requires a little work like putting it in writing someone won't do it. Of course maybe he fears putting it in writing because he knows it isn't true.
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Pestle 02:34 PM 10-21-2016
So, I had my first licensing inspection yesterday (Thursday) and I've got the packet to work through--very encouraging! She was kind and praised my space and my preparedness, and confirmed that everything I'm doing is correct (except that I've got to spring for hard-wired smoke detectors and get an illuminated exit sign installed, too ).

But on Sunday, I posted an ad on Nextdoor again. On Monday, while I was outside with the kids, I got a call on my cell phone from the city permitting inspector. He said, "Ma'am, are you aware you have to have a permit for the kind of operation you're running?"

Good grief. It must've been the same neighbor, because, as the treasurer of the homeowner's association, he's got my cell number (it's not listed in any of my ads). So I said, "I guess you've heard from John Smith, then. He doesn't want me here. He's also reported me to the city council." The permitting inspector asked some questions, then said, "Okay, you don't need a permit. What's the name of the man you said is reporting you?" and repeated it back to me--I guess he made a note of it.

The frustrating thing is that this neighbor clearly isn't giving up. All I need is for him to make something up about me. I'm still going to ignore all contact from him, but I told the licensing agent about it, too, and her boss already has an email from back when the city council member was in touch with me.


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Indoorvoice 02:52 PM 10-21-2016
Wow it sounds like your neighbor needs some hobbies. My next door neighbors don't like my daycare either but all they do is give us dirty looks when we're outside!
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Blackcat31 02:59 PM 10-21-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
So, I had my first licensing inspection yesterday (Thursday) and I've got the packet to work through--very encouraging! She was kind and praised my space and my preparedness, and confirmed that everything I'm doing is correct (except that I've got to spring for hard-wired smoke detectors and get an illuminated exit sign installed, too ).

But on Sunday, I posted an ad on Nextdoor again. On Monday, while I was outside with the kids, I got a call on my cell phone from the city permitting inspector. He said, "Ma'am, are you aware you have to have a permit for the kind of operation you're running?"

Good grief. It must've been the same neighbor, because, as the treasurer of the homeowner's association, he's got my cell number (it's not listed in any of my ads). So I said, "I guess you've heard from John Smith, then. He doesn't want me here. He's also reported me to the city council." The permitting inspector asked some questions, then said, "Okay, you don't need a permit. What's the name of the man you said is reporting you?" and repeated it back to me--I guess he made a note of it.

The frustrating thing is that this neighbor clearly isn't giving up. All I need is for him to make something up about me. I'm still going to ignore all contact from him, but I told the licensing agent about it, too, and her boss already has an email from back when the city council member was in touch with me.

You can notify the police. What this neighbor is doing is harassment and despite his feelings about whether or not you are legally illegally operating according to the city is NOT his call nor does he have the authority to continue harassing you about this.

Because you provide care for young children, I am betting the police will take this seriously and at the very least go talk to him and tell him he can file a complaint with the proper agencies, let them deal with it and leave out ANY contact with you.

Vigilante neighbors like to make a lot of "noise" but once the police are called into the mix, they will usually back off....

....and if not, you have the police report as evidence should you need to take even further action and file an order for him to stay away from you, your business, your ads, and ANY agency or person that has ties to you and your business.

When it starts to have an impact on your ability to make a living and support your family, he has no right to cause you any losses and CAN be held legally liable for them should he not heed the police or a no contact order.

I'm sorry you are dealing with such a crappy neighbor! They are the worst! I have one in my daycare neighborhood too and am thankful every day that my home is in the woods where the only annoying neighbors I have are skunks and porcupines.
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Josiegirl 02:59 PM 10-21-2016
Ugh, just when you probably thought he'd given up.
How close does he live from you? Has he ever mentioned his problem with you having a family daycare? Doesn't like kids? Traffic? Noise? Did you talk with him in person about all of this? You'd think he'd leave it alone now.
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Pestle 03:04 PM 10-21-2016
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Ugh, just when you probably thought he'd given up.
How close does he live from you? Has he ever mentioned his problem with you having a family daycare? Doesn't like kids? Traffic? Noise? Did you talk with him in person about all of this? You'd think he'd leave it alone now.
He lives one street and several houses over. If he walks a block, he can see into my yard.

Traffic is a non-issue. I'm the second street in the neighborhood and have plenty of parking in the driveway.

Noise? Well, there's a school playground between his house and mine, so if he think's I'm adding any noise he's got no leg to stand on.

Blackcat, I'm going to wait and see if he reaches out to me again. It's possible that the permitting inspector was just now getting around to a complaint filed back this summer--it was just awfully suspicious that the call came first thing in the morning after I posted another ad on the networking site this guy was already harassing me on.
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Cat Herder 12:59 PM 10-24-2016
What does this guy do for a living? I have some free time coming up this weekend.
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Hunni Bee 02:55 PM 10-24-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
He lives one street and several houses over. If he walks a block, he can see into my yard.

Traffic is a non-issue. I'm the second street in the neighborhood and have plenty of parking in the driveway.

Noise? Well, there's a school playground between his house and mine, so if he think's I'm adding any noise he's got no leg to stand on.

Blackcat, I'm going to wait and see if he reaches out to me again. It's possible that the permitting inspector was just now getting around to a complaint filed back this summer--it was just awfully suspicious that the call came first thing in the morning after I posted another ad on the networking site this guy was already harassing me on.
Are you sure that wasn't him posing as some some sort of city official? Because I'd think that if it was, they'd be able to pull your records and see whether or not you had/needed a permit or not. Plus, they would've contacted you on the phone number you listed with your paperwork, unless it was your cell number.

Seems fishy. I'd do as Blackcat suggested.
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Ariana 06:44 PM 10-24-2016
So sorry you are going through this. Sounds like some kind of bored keyboard warrior out to cause a ruckus. Ugh.

Hopefully he goes away now but if he doesn't take action. No one deserves this type of harassment.


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DaveA 05:48 AM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by Hunni Bee:
Are you sure that wasn't him posing as some some sort of city official? Because I'd think that if it was, they'd be able to pull your records and see whether or not you had/needed a permit or not. Plus, they would've contacted you on the phone number you listed with your paperwork, unless it was your cell number.

Seems fishy. I'd do as Blackcat suggested.
I was thinking this also. I'd either call the PD or Inspector's office just to make sure it was legit. Most jurisdictions take imposters very seriously. If nothing else calling them puts it out there to them that you are concerned about the safety of the children in your care and want to operate responsibly.
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daycarediva 09:54 AM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
You can notify the police. What this neighbor is doing is harassment and despite his feelings about whether or not you are legally illegally operating according to the city is NOT his call nor does he have the authority to continue harassing you about this.

Because you provide care for young children, I am betting the police will take this seriously and at the very least go talk to him and tell him he can file a complaint with the proper agencies, let them deal with it and leave out ANY contact with you.

Vigilante neighbors like to make a lot of "noise" but once the police are called into the mix, they will usually back off....

....and if not, you have the police report as evidence should you need to take even further action and file an order for him to stay away from you, your business, your ads, and ANY agency or person that has ties to you and your business.

When it starts to have an impact on your ability to make a living and support your family, he has no right to cause you any losses and CAN be held legally liable for them should he not heed the police or a no contact order.

I'm sorry you are dealing with such a crappy neighbor! They are the worst! I have one in my daycare neighborhood too and am thankful every day that my home is in the woods where the only annoying neighbors I have are skunks and porcupines.
I would be reporting him and filing harassment charges.
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