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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>The Fake "I'm Sorry"
MissAnn 05:43 AM 11-02-2011
I do not encourage fake "I'm sorry's"......

On the other hand.....sometimes I need to find a good solution. With hitting, I pay attention to the kid who was hit. I have the kid who was hit talk to the kid who hit him (if he/she wants to). Then there's this silence. I'm wanting to hear "I'm sorry" because I feel it's polite...even though I know it's not really heart felt. I ask the kid who hit.....what do you want to say? He shrugs.

So....at that point....what?

How do you handle it?

I don't listen to tattling. Instead I give the kids tools to know how to handle situations. They usually will go talk to the kid who knocked down their blocks (or whatever)....but the kid who knocked them down usually just doesn't care to say anything. I don't want to get involved.....my kids are all 3-5 years old and I want them to be able to handle situations themselves.

Just give me some suggestions or tell me what you do. I'm not big on time out but I'm Ok with redirection
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AfterSchoolMom 05:50 AM 11-02-2011
I know that the "I'm sorry" might not be heartfelt...but at a young age, neither is "excuse me" when they burp or when they want to interrupt a conversation, or even "please" when they ask for something.

I think it's ok to teach them to say "I'm sorry" after they hit. You're teaching them the appropriate response to give someone when they're responsible for wronging someone in some way. The words may not be heartfelt right now, but they probably will be later in life.
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nannyde 05:54 AM 11-02-2011
https://www.daycare.com/nannyde/shou...-are-sorry.htm
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Cat Herder 05:59 AM 11-02-2011
"I'm sorry" would not work for me. Hitting would buy them lot's of time alone to think about it (not time-out, a seperate area to play). Words can't fix violence.

By hitting another child they have shown me they are not safe to have free playing in my group. The world as they know it comes to a screeching halt.

The only time they would have access to other kids is with me by their side until they earned my trust back.

It is a BIG DEAL here and would be stopped in its tracks. My clients expect it.

For most of my clients violence issues in childcare is why they did not go to a large center to begin with, so I'd quickly be out of business if I allowed it.

I only keep birth-4 and special needs.
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SilverSabre25 06:05 AM 11-02-2011
My sister came up with something I really like and have been using. As the child who did the "thing" that requires an apology , "We need to apologize to [victim]; will you, or should I?" And most of the time, so far, the child in question has made me do it, and that's okay, because at least *MY* apology really is heartfelt--I say something along the lines of, "[victim], I'm very sorry that Johnny made the poor choice to take the toy from you." or "[victim], I'm very sorry that you got hurt when [whatever the other kid did]"

I also love, love, LOVE Teacher Tom's 8-Steps for Learning through Conflict for 2-Year olds (but I use it for all ages, because it's still valid as they get older, especially if conflict management is a new concept to them). Read through the post; it's about halfway through.
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MissAnn 06:39 AM 11-02-2011
thank you for the replies! Wish I had time right now to read the links....but it will have to wait....I have kids to supervise....but you know how that is. Come naptime and I will read through them!

I did read a tad bit of Nannyde's.......and she is right......it's going through the motions without meaning. I don't think "excuse me" holds the same meaning as "I'm sorry".....sorry holds a feeling....a hearfelt feeling.

And the....."I told him I was sorry" drives me crazy. I once told a kid that it's nice that he felt sorry, but it does not correct what he did. Another kid really took that to the hilt....and anytime anyone says "sorry" he will say....."But that doesnt fix everything!!!!!!!" It makes me chuckle a bit....but it's true....and that's something we can all learn from.....and I'm guilty of that myself....feeling like if I say "sorry" then all is fixed.

Silversabre....love your sister's idea. In doing it this way, we are showing a good example and the child who got hit is given the attention he/she deserves. I might try that today and I'll let you know what happens.
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Meyou 06:58 AM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
My sister came up with something I really like and have been using. As the child who did the "thing" that requires an apology , "We need to apologize to [victim]; will you, or should I?" And most of the time, so far, the child in question has made me do it, and that's okay, because at least *MY* apology really is heartfelt--I say something along the lines of, "[victim], I'm very sorry that Johnny made the poor choice to take the toy from you." or "[victim], I'm very sorry that you got hurt when [whatever the other kid did]"

I also love, love, LOVE Teacher Tom's 8-Steps for Learning through Conflict for 2-Year olds (but I use it for all ages, because it's still valid as they get older, especially if conflict management is a new concept to them). Read through the post; it's about halfway through.
I like this. I've been asking, "Do you have anything to say to *** about what happened?" but I'm going to give your method a whirl.

I also have the opposite problem. There are a couple that break rules and then immediately say Sorry Sorry Sorry! and then expect that to use the behavior. It doesn't work but it's still irritating.
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nannyde 07:02 AM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
My sister came up with something I really like and have been using. As the child who did the "thing" that requires an apology , "We need to apologize to [victim]; will you, or should I?" And most of the time, so far, the child in question has made me do it, and that's okay, because at least *MY* apology really is heartfelt--I say something along the lines of, "[victim], I'm very sorry that Johnny made the poor choice to take the toy from you." or "[victim], I'm very sorry that you got hurt when [whatever the other kid did]"

I also love, love, LOVE Teacher Tom's 8-Steps for Learning through Conflict for 2-Year olds (but I use it for all ages, because it's still valid as they get older, especially if conflict management is a new concept to them). Read through the post; it's about halfway through.
"We need to apologize to [victim]; will you, or should I?"

I wouldn't use this technique. It's bringing attention and choice to the perp and undo attention to the victim in front of the perp.

IMHO it would create chaos and escalation in the moment.

I read his blog and I don't agree with much of it. He is saying he has this violence and it is "normal" or expected. I think we need to aim for the techniques that STOP it.... not expect it to be a part of normal growth and development and then have a fifteen step process of dealing with it when it does happen.

This kind of escalating isn't done anywhere else in the animal kindgom. Any other animal with a beating heart senses danger, fear, and something bad is/could happen BEFORE it happens and bolts... moves.. or stays super tuned. Any other animal in the animal kindgom TAKES OVER and disciplines. The young of other animals with beating hearts learn not to do dangerous or bad things because their mama said NO and the consequence for doing so anyway was swift and most often painful.

But alas... we are special... and we have to make a big fat deal of simple.

Very discouraging to me.
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AfterSchoolMom 07:51 AM 11-02-2011
I wanted to clarify that in my post above I was speaking from a small child perspective. "I told him I'm sorry" doesn't fix it here either.
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Blackcat31 09:11 AM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by Meyou:
I like this. I've been asking, "Do you have anything to say to *** about what happened?" but I'm going to give your method a whirl.

I also have the opposite problem. There are a couple that break rules and then immediately say Sorry Sorry Sorry! and then expect that to use the behavior. It doesn't work but it's still irritating.
Ha, I have ones like this too! I always get "But, I said I was sorry!" Like that excuses them from any type of punishment?!?!
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Meyou 10:10 AM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Ha, I have ones like this too! I always get "But, I said I was sorry!" Like that excuses them from any type of punishment?!?!
For mine it does at home.
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Ariana 10:22 AM 11-02-2011
This is pretty much all about empathy and the metacognition of children at this age. They literally are unable to put themselves in other people's shoes. They think if they feel fine, the other guy they just bit/hit/pished also feels fine. They just don't get it!! I would just comfort the child who is hurt and talk to the kid who did the hurting about why we don't hurt. This is where you teach kids about empathy. I don't do apologies either because my basic understanding is that they really don't understand what it means untl muuuuuuch later. I do however try to teach empathy by explaining how the other kid feels (eventhough they won't really get it until later)

You can almost tell the kids who are forced to say sorry. They walk up to another kid push them over and then immediately say "sorry" with no remorse or empathy, it's teir 'get out of jail free' card!...they're just doing what is expected without understanding.
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Ariana 10:29 AM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
[b]"
This kind of escalating isn't done anywhere else in the animal kindgom. Any other animal with a beating heart senses danger, fear, and something bad is/could happen BEFORE it happens and bolts... moves.. or stays super tuned. Any other animal in the animal kindgom TAKES OVER and disciplines. The young of other animals with beating hearts learn not to do dangerous or bad things because their mama said NO and the consequence for doing so anyway was swift and most often painful.

But alas... we are special... and we have to make a big fat deal of simple.

Very discouraging to me.
In the animal kingdom animal young are also allowed to "rough" house with eachother and play fight. This is where they learn hunting skills and what does and doesn't hurt and learn about their own power and when to surrender etc. In the human world we step in at any sign of agression and squash it. Agression is normal in all animals and through "rough housing" even children learn how to control it, especially boys. I watched a documentary once about te importance of pretend fighting for boys and how it helps them deal with their agression.
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karen 12:33 PM 11-02-2011
"Friends are for hugging and nice touches."
It was I do when the children hit each other. I even made pics to post on the wall so I can go over it. I always say to the kids what are friends for. We have a discussion about why the child hit
What are some other ways to handle it
and finally
Can you give michelle a hug because she is sad and give her nice touches.
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AfterSchoolMom 05:47 PM 11-02-2011
I just came across this on facebook, and thought of this thread:

Originally Posted by :
A teacher in New York was teaching her class about bullying and gave them the following exercise to perform. She had the children take a piece of paper and told them to crumple it up, stamp on it and really mess it up but do not rip it. Then she had them unfold the paper, smooth it out and look at how scarred and dirty is was. She then told them to tell it they’re sorry. Now even though they said they were sorry and tried to fix the paper, she pointed out all the scars they left behind. And that those scars will never go away no matter how hard they tried to fix it. That is what happens when a child bully’s another child, they may say they’re sorry but the scars are there forever. The looks on the faces of the children in the classroom told her the message hit home.

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daycare 06:01 PM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
"I'm sorry" would not work for me. Hitting would buy them lot's of time alone to think about it (not time-out, a seperate area to play). Words can't fix violence.

By hitting another child they have shown me they are not safe to have free playing in my group. The world as they know it comes to a screeching halt.

The only time they would have access to other kids is with me by their side until they earned my trust back.

It is a BIG DEAL here and would be stopped in its tracks. My clients expect it.

For most of my clients violence issues in childcare is why they did not go to a large center to begin with, so I'd quickly be out of business if I allowed it.

I only keep birth-4 and special needs.
I agree with this. When you purposely hurt someone, you don't get to say words. You get separated from society and you spend your time alone.

Too many kids will quickly learn to say Im sorry just to justify the harmful behavior. ONce they see that the words get them off the hook, the words lose their meaning.
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nannyde 06:44 PM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by Ariana:
In the animal kingdom animal young are also allowed to "rough" house with eachother and play fight. This is where they learn hunting skills and what does and doesn't hurt and learn about their own power and when to surrender etc. In the human world we step in at any sign of agression and squash it. Agression is normal in all animals and through "rough housing" even children learn how to control it, especially boys. I watched a documentary once about te importance of pretend fighting for boys and how it helps them deal with their agression.
Sure

The difference is when the Mama says knock it off they stop.
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Cat Herder 06:48 PM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by Ariana:
In the animal kingdom animal young are also allowed to "rough" house with eachother and play fight. This is where they learn hunting skills and what does and doesn't hurt and learn about their own power and when to surrender etc. In the human world we step in at any sign of agression and squash it. Agression is normal in all animals and through "rough housing" even children learn how to control it, especially boys. I watched a documentary once about te importance of pretend fighting for boys and how it helps them deal with their agression.
Don't get me started with natural selection and adaptation to environment. I Darwin.

The problem is I can't allow a child to be injured. It could cost me everything I own.

That reality is not present in the animal kingdom so I adapted.


Edit: Uh..wow, Nan. Get out of my head....
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MissAnn 07:03 PM 11-02-2011
The problem is I can't allow a child to be injured. It could cost me everything I own.

Exactly! And....kids who play rough at home with a sister or brother is a whole different scenario than a daycare full of kids allowed to play rough. If my DHS licensor comes in and kids are wrestling and running......she would say something....I know, because she has.
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daycare 07:11 PM 11-02-2011
sorry, I think you took that the wrong way...they were not saying to let them play like wild animals...


this is the important part of it....

This is where they learn hunting skills and what does and doesn't hurt and learn about their own power and when to surrender etc. In the human world we step in at any sign of agression and squash it. Agression is normal in all animals and through "rough housing" even children learn how to control it, especially boys. I watched a documentary once about te importance of pretend fighting for boys and how it helps them deal with their agression.
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Cat Herder 07:24 PM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
sorry, I think you took that the wrong way...they were not saying to let them play like wild animals...


this is the important part of it....

This is where they learn hunting skills and what does and doesn't hurt and learn about their own power and when to surrender etc. In the human world we step in at any sign of agression and squash it. Agression is normal in all animals and through "rough housing" even children learn how to control it, especially boys. I watched a documentary once about te importance of pretend fighting for boys and how it helps them deal with their agression.
No, I understand and agree with her.

In a perfect world the kids would be able to do this, just NOT in a litter of unrelated children. Humans are not generally born into litters for a reason...

You should see my own son's wrestle...it is a sight.

The concept of Todays Daycare and anything resembling a natural human environment are polar opposites.
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Hunni Bee 08:13 PM 11-02-2011
I don't do sorry either. I HATE it when a child gets a bad report from me, and the next morning the parent marches the child in front of me and says "what do you have to say to Ms.____".

The only time I do sorry is for non-violent, accidental stuff...like bumping, shoe-stepping, block-knocking-over.

Hurting (which I noticed today has gone almost down to never...yay!!!) gets no mediation or big to-do for my littles. In my opinion, kids that little have no moral compass. Stuff is wrong because you get in trouble, not because it's inherently wrong. So, you get in trouble, which is big fat dose of Sit and Do Nothing.

They don't truly get empathy and the Golden Rule til about 5. They don't get that other people feel stuff like they do. So sorry has no meaning, except as a Get Out of Jail Free Card.
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daycare 10:16 PM 11-02-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
No, I understand and agree with her.

In a perfect world the kids would be able to do this, just NOT in a litter of unrelated children. Humans are not generally born into litters for a reason...

You should see my own son's wrestle...it is a sight.

The concept of Todays Daycare and anything resembling a natural human environment are polar opposites.
lol no it was me that misread her post.....hahahahah

GO figure....

OT- took your advice, I am cutting my hours starting NOv 17. No more 12 days for me...Yeah baby! 7:45-5:30...........Then I am DONE and can play with my own kids....I'm super excited because now I get to see my daughter do her gymnastics......I cant wait....
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Ariana 07:03 AM 11-03-2011
Yeah my post was not so much for caregivers but more a general comment on "rough housing" for kids and maybe we as parents could think about. In this day and age of everybody sue everybody I can't afford to let kids rough house at my daycare either
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harperluu 07:16 AM 11-03-2011
I don't think the fake I'm sorry is any different than the fake Thank You or the fake Please. We teach children the words we want them to use before they have the cognitive ability to truly feel or understand the meaning behind them.

Do you think a child of two feels gratitude when you ask them to say Thank You? Do you always feel remorseful when as an adult you say the words I'm Sorry?

I think as adults we are overanalyzing the whole I'm Sorry controversy.
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Tags:apologize - forced, hitting, nannyde, violence, violent behaviour
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