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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Food Program Sponsor Contract Says
BumbleBee 04:13 PM 08-23-2013
"The provider will provide meals/snacks at no seperate charge to all children enrolled in the daycare home and not require the parent/guardian to provide any part of the meal service."

I have 1 child whose parents do not want their child on the food program for moral reasons (don't want the government paying for their child) so I asked them to supply their childs meals/snacks each day.

2 days a week I keep a sibling set an hour after closing (until 7pm). I do not and have never served dinner. I gave the parents 2 choices, bring their dinner OR pay a fee and I will supply dinner.

I'm reading it as: I can't charge them more to cover the additional meal OR ask their parents to supply. What I've been doing is giving parents 2 choices: enroll your child in the food program, or bring your own food. This isn't okay either? Am I understanding that right? I asked my sponsor when she was here and she said they can supply meals if they want to, but I can't require it-even if they don't enroll. So basically I'm losing money if they won't bring food AND won't enroll in the fp? Ugh...I'm annoyed can you tell?
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Cradle2crayons 04:20 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
"The provider will provide meals/snacks at no seperate charge to all children enrolled in the daycare home and not require the parent/guardian to provide any part of the meal service."

I have 1 child whose parents do not want their child on the food program for moral reasons (don't want the government paying for their child) so I asked them to supply their childs meals/snacks each day.

2 days a week I keep a sibling set an hour after closing (until 7pm). I do not and have never served dinner. I gave the parents 2 choices, bring their dinner OR pay a fee and I will supply dinner.

If I'm reading the food program sponsor contract correctly-neither of these scenarios is permitted. Any thoughts?
If the parents want to opt out of the food program (if that is allowed in your state) then you can do what you want with that family

On the second scenario, if those two kids are on the food program, you have to provide their dinner unless you are already claiming a meal and two snack on them that day or two meals and one snack. If you are providing and claiming the two meals and snack or two snacks and a meal, then dinner isn't part of the food program so you can't claim that meal.

At least that's my understanding, but I'd call the sponsor to clarify
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AmyKidsCo 04:23 PM 08-23-2013
ITA with the first scenario.

I'm not sure about the second, but if you didn't check "dinner" as a meal you provided on the child's registration form you're probably OK. Especially since you've got the child after closing. But just because I interpret the rules that way doesn't mean it's right.
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BumbleBee 04:30 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
If the parents want to opt out of the food program (if that is allowed in your state) then you can do what you want with that family

On the second scenario, if those two kids are on the food program, you have to provide their dinner unless you are already claiming a meal and two snack on them that day or two meals and one snack. If you are providing and claiming the two meals and snack or two snacks and a meal, then dinner isn't part of the food program so you can't claim that meal.

At least that's my understanding, but I'd call the sponsor to clarify
My confusion stems from the line "all children enrolled in the day care home"

I already claim breakfast, lunch, and pm snack for these 2 kids. I don't claim dinner because I don't provide it. I offered the parents 2 options - bring dinner for the kids, or I will supply it for an additional fee over & above their rate. I'm reading the contract as that's not allowed.
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Margarete 04:56 PM 08-23-2013
I think all children enrolled means enrolled in the food program.
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Margarete 05:15 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
My confusion stems from the line "all children enrolled in the day care home"

I already claim breakfast, lunch, and pm snack for these 2 kids. I don't claim dinner because I don't provide it. I offered the parents 2 options - bring dinner for the kids, or I will supply it for an additional fee over & above their rate. I'm reading the contract as that's not allowed.
I sometimes claim breakfast, lunch, and pm snack... or am snack, lunch, and dinner for 2 kids that times in and out sometimes vary. breakfast Lunch and a snack is 4.39, but Lunch, Dinner and a snack is 5.51. If I serve an additional snack I can still claim it on my taxes, but not get reimbursed
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Cradle2crayons 05:43 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Margarete:
I think all children enrolled means enrolled in the food program.
In my state, there is no opting out. But lots of states can.

You are already claiming the max meals and snacks so dinner can't be claimed anyway. So I would read that as saying the food program doesn't dictate that meal.
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BumbleBee 05:54 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
In my state, there is no opting out. But lots of states can.

You are already claiming the max meals and snacks so dinner can't be claimed anyway. So I would read that as saying the food program doesn't dictate that meal.
Now I'm curious, if a parent doesn't want their child on the food program, do they have to find a provider who is not on the food program?

My sponsor knows I have a child who is NOT on the food program because mom does not want the child on the food program (I didn't go into the whole explanation) and she's fine with it-even said "it's up to the parents."

Anyways, I'm just curious what parents do in your state if they don't want their child on the food program?
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Cradle2crayons 05:59 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
Now I'm curious, if a parent doesn't want their child on the food program, do they have to find a provider who is not on the food program?

My sponsor knows I have a child who is NOT on the food program because mom does not want the child on the food program (I didn't go into the whole explanation) and she's fine with it-even said "it's up to the parents."

Anyways, I'm just curious what parents do in your state if they don't want their child on the food program?
That's a good question. I'm not on the food program because they won't allow any child to be opted out. And because they limit my number of kids. The state says I can have five kids NOT counting my own two. But the food program says I can only have 3 daycare kids because my two count. So if I went on the food program I would be minus even more income.

That's why most in home providers don't do the food program here.
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Unregistered 06:40 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
"The provider will provide meals/snacks at no seperate charge to all children enrolled in the daycare home and not require the parent/guardian to provide any part of the meal service."

I have 1 child whose parents do not want their child on the food program for moral reasons (don't want the government paying for their child) so I asked them to supply their childs meals/snacks each day.

2 days a week I keep a sibling set an hour after closing (until 7pm). I do not and have never served dinner. I gave the parents 2 choices, bring their dinner OR pay a fee and I will supply dinner.

I'm reading it as: I can't charge them more to cover the additional meal OR ask their parents to supply. What I've been doing is giving parents 2 choices: enroll your child in the food program, or bring your own food. This isn't okay either? Am I understanding that right? I asked my sponsor when she was here and she said they can supply meals if they want to, but I can't require it-even if they don't enroll. So basically I'm losing money if they won't bring food AND won't enroll in the fp? Ugh...I'm annoyed can you tell?
is the 1st kid enrolled on the food program? If not, then you don't have to include them in that clause. They say 'all enrolled' which I take to mean enrolled in the FOOD program, not the daycare. I had kids whose parents refused to sign the enrollment forms and so were not on the food program at all, and they brought their own food. Also my drop ins were never on the program.

2nd kid: AFTER daycare hours no one can dictate your feeding schedule or how you choose to handle dinner. It's just business hours.
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Unregistered 06:50 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
is the 1st kid enrolled on the food program? If not, then you don't have to include them in that clause. They say 'all enrolled' which I take to mean enrolled in the FOOD program, not the daycare. I had kids whose parents refused to sign the enrollment forms and so were not on the food program at all, and they brought their own food. Also my drop ins were never on the program.

2nd kid: AFTER daycare hours no one can dictate your feeding schedule or how you choose to handle dinner. It's just business hours.
CONTINUED:

From the CACFP website:

Nothing in here says the parents MUST be participants that I can find unless I missed it.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/care/Pub...ring_Homes.pdf
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Patches 09:58 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Trummynme:
"The provider will provide meals/snacks at no seperate charge to all children enrolled in the daycare home and not require the parent/guardian to provide any part of the meal service."

I have 1 child whose parents do not want their child on the food program for moral reasons (don't want the government paying for their child) so I asked them to supply their childs meals/snacks each day.

2 days a week I keep a sibling set an hour after closing (until 7pm). I do not and have never served dinner. I gave the parents 2 choices, bring their dinner OR pay a fee and I will supply dinner.

I'm reading it as: I can't charge them more to cover the additional meal OR ask their parents to supply. What I've been doing is giving parents 2 choices: enroll your child in the food program, or bring your own food. This isn't okay either? Am I understanding that right? I asked my sponsor when she was here and she said they can supply meals if they want to, but I can't require it-even if they don't enroll. So basically I'm losing money if they won't bring food AND won't enroll in the fp? Ugh...I'm annoyed can you tell?
Yeah, I think you're right that it is probably not allowed, BUT can't you claim the meals on your taxes?
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Margarete 10:45 PM 08-23-2013
Originally Posted by Trummynme:

2 days a week I keep a sibling set an hour after closing (until 7pm). I do not and have never served dinner. I gave the parents 2 choices, bring their dinner OR pay a fee and I will supply dinner.

I'm reading it as: I can't charge them more to cover the additional meal OR ask their parents to supply. What I've been doing is giving parents 2 choices: enroll your child in the food program, or bring your own food. This isn't okay either? Am I understanding that right? I asked my sponsor when she was here and she said they can supply meals if they want to, but I can't require it-even if they don't enroll. So basically I'm losing money if they won't bring food AND won't enroll in the fp? Ugh...I'm annoyed can you tell?
Some things you CAN do for sure... Charge a premium for after hour care, which will include dinner. I would consider enrolling the children in dinner service, as you get reimbursed for dinner at a higher rate then you do for breakfast. Then you would claim Lunch, PM snack, and Dinner for those children on those 2 days, and then deduct breakfast from your taxes. You will probably need to make sure your rep knows that you are serving dinner and open later on those days.
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itlw8 06:20 AM 08-24-2013
all children enrolled is in your program.... you do need to fill out the paperwork on all the children even if the parents opt out. The child is enrolled you just can not claim on that child... why ? to prevent fraud they want to see how many are there

If you are not enrolled as a provider for dinner then you can charge them for that... I would hate inspections at dinner so no way would I enroll for dinner.


The family that does not want government involved. not sure You can not charge them for the food but is there another way to increase their rate?
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itlw8 06:26 AM 08-24-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
That's a good question. I'm not on the food program because they won't allow any child to be opted out. And because they limit my number of kids. The state says I can have five kids NOT counting my own two. But the food program says I can only have 3 daycare kids because my two count. So if I went on the food program I would be minus even more income.

That's why most in home providers don't do the food program here.
Double check to see if your state has put in that rule or if your sponsor has misinterpreted the rule.. That is not a federal rule. The food program follows the state regulations on how many children is in ratio.

I am licensed for 10 children and grandkids do not count in that ratio not a smart rule but it is the rule.... The computer kept kicking out the payment for my grandson... every month they had to fix by hand. I kept on them and they fixed the computer program.
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itlw8 06:29 AM 08-24-2013
I think if a parent says they want to opt out of the food program you then say then you need to supply the childs meals and snacks and follow these guidelines. If you forget you will be sent home to get proper meals and snacks for the day. You always have the option to change your mind and enroll in the fp the tell about the benefits of teaching the children about healthy eating.
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Cradle2crayons 09:08 AM 08-24-2013
Originally Posted by itlw8:
Double check to see if your state has put in that rule or if your sponsor has misinterpreted the rule.. That is not a federal rule. The food program follows the state regulations on how many children is in ratio.

I am licensed for 10 children and grandkids do not count in that ratio not a smart rule but it is the rule.... The computer kept kicking out the payment for my grandson... every month they had to fix by hand. I kept on them and they fixed the computer program.
Apparently the state says this. Not all states follow the federal guidelines. Some make their own guidelines we have to follow. The state says they've been trying to get these inconsistencies changed for years, but to no avail.
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JoseyJo 10:31 AM 08-24-2013
I just had my annual training today so I asked about this while there. They said (at least in KS) that the parent's CAN opt out. They have to fill out the form and check the "opt out" option and sign it. It is up to us whether we accept a family who wants to opt out, if we want to charge them more, or if they need to provide the meals.
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