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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Potty Training Frustration
tenderhearts 11:32 AM 10-26-2016
I have an almost 4 yr old girl (next week) who is not potty trained yet. It is the most frustrating thing. She knows, she chooses not to. The hardest part is parents say they try at home but they baby her WAY too much, especially the dad. He's a nice guy but googoos over her way too much and it drives me crazy. Anyways, I do not believe they really try, to make matters worse she goes to grandparents a day per week and I know they do not try, in so many words they have said, it's just more convenient for diapers.
I have tried and tried and have started a "reward" system, I ran it by mom and she was completely on board however she makes progress until the weekend hits, or after grandparents.
This is so frustrating. Any suggestions? I know this girl is capable just not willing...
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midaycare 11:39 AM 10-26-2016
I have 2 almost 4's like this. Parents aren't even close to being interested in potty training.

One dcd told me, "We expect one day he will just go use the potty by hinself." Just ridiculous. And these are smart people!
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daycarediva 11:50 AM 10-26-2016
OP, have you actually sat them down and said everyone needs to be on board or dcg will be going to K in diapers?

I don't enroll children over age 3 who aren't potty trained now. I know that sounds harsh, but I had a 5 year old leave for K not trained last year.

If a child is enrolled prior to that age, I bring up potty training plans to parents at interviews. I also watch for readiness signs, and I give parents a LOT of feedback on it. I assist (up to tossing them in underwear, or running around naked or going every 20 minutes)

I have noticed that *I* have been the initiator of the whole potty training process for the last 3ish years for EVERY child. Kids who show readiness signs like pulling pants up, staying dry for periods of time, telling me they are going/need to go, etc.

I also give parents a BIG warning- if they wait, it becomes a power struggle. IMHO, there is a narrow window of time when a child is ready, and willing and if you miss that window, they are already accustomed to just peeing/pooping when the diaper goes on. The 5yo I mentioned actually would wait until I put a diaper on him to go home and poop in it, sometimes before he even got in the car.

I ALSO tell parents that wiping and being completely potty independent takes time, months-years and they need these skills mastered WELL before Kindergarten. The teachers WILL NOT wipe a child.
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Gemma 11:51 AM 10-26-2016
I know how you must feel, I have the same issue with one of my dck and I TOTALLY blame the lack of consistency at home

...but I'm done stressing over it cause no one else seems to care!
I just keep encouraging to try and stay dry and let me know when "it's coming", so we can go to the toilet, then if she does, great, and if she doesn't oh well, we tried!
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tenderhearts 12:43 PM 10-26-2016
daycarediva, yes I am in constant communication with them and how we HAVE to ALL be on board with this including the grandparents, they say they know this however, laziness takes the win for sure. I usually do the initiating of potty training or else no one will ever be potty trained.
I will not put them in underwear for sanitary reasons but I talked with mom last week about all of this and said if she could find the thicker cotton gerber underwear and plastic pants that would be better than pull ups. I use them here on here and like I said, she was doing well UNTIL today after the grandparents. I just don't understand.
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laundrymom 01:02 PM 10-26-2016
I support the parents. I encourage the kids. But I don't hand hold or micromanage.
If parents don't mind buying diapers, and child doesn't mind wearing them, I don't stress. However, life is much easier with underwear. Lol. Especially mine.
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Blackcat31 01:12 PM 10-26-2016
I don't involve myself in toilet training at all.

When parents choose to start, I will support their efforts (within reason) but I don't initiate the process nor do I tell them if or when I think their child is ready.

That's a parent's call.
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tenderhearts 01:19 PM 10-26-2016
That's just about what I'm going to do with her. Just let them deal with it. I just get really tired of changing a 4 year old.
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Blackcat31 01:24 PM 10-26-2016
Originally Posted by tenderhearts:
That's just about what I'm going to do with her. Just let them deal with it. I just get really tired of changing a 4 year old.
It does get old and nasty but honestly, it's less stress for you over all. I mean either way you look at it, changing a poopy diaper is gross but it takes only a few minutes and wham bam you're done.

The stress of having to constantly be in "training" mode with this child has got to be way worse....

I am also betting the DCM was more than on board with you doing the reward thing because that meant doing the hard work would be YOUR problem not theirs.

I would just let her be. Let her wear diapers.

I have lots of "big kid" activities and toys that only children in underwear can partake in. If they want to play with those things or be a big kid, it doesn't take the child long to figure it out.

But I certainly won't stress about a child in diapers due to lazy parents and I certainly don't like putting in more time and attention to something that benefits mostly the parents, then the child and lastly you. The stress of training compared to the ick factor having to change a 4 yr old isn't even a difficult choice...

I give this to parents.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_...ew?usp=sharing

when it's time for me to jump in and help finish up the process, it usually takes only a day or two and that is that.
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midaycare 02:18 PM 10-26-2016
BC what are your big kid activities?
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Blackcat31 02:26 PM 10-26-2016
Originally Posted by midaycare:
BC what are your big kid activities?
I have an entire preschool room of activities that are for those kids that wear underwear only.

Little Legos
Big kid doll house
Markers/art cabinet
"Sewing" supplies
Light Table
Magnet board
Hot Wheels

Tons of things that have smaller pieces or that require older abilities.... you know everything a little kid WANTS desperately to have to have access to

No password required, no fees or dues, no magic words or keys required.....just underwear and the ability to use the toilet.

It's amazing how much of a motivator that can be.
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midaycare 02:40 PM 10-26-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I have an entire preschool room of activities that are for those kids that wear underwear only.

Little Legos
Big kid doll house
Markers/art cabinet
"Sewing" supplies
Light Table
Magnet board
Hot Wheels

Tons of things that have smaller pieces or that require older abilities.... you know everything a little kid WANTS desperately to have to have access to

No password required, no fees or dues, no magic words or keys required.....just underwear and the ability to use the toilet.

It's amazing how much of a motivator that can be.
I love that idea! What typeof light table do you have? I'm in the market.
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Blackcat31 02:53 PM 10-26-2016
Originally Posted by midaycare:
I love that idea! What typeof light table do you have? I'm in the market.
I bought this one last summer (courtesy of a QRIS grant)
https://www.kaplanco.com/product/628...t?c=9%7CSC1005
Super easy to use and very durable!


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midaycare 03:35 PM 10-26-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I bought this one last summer (courtesy of a QRIS grant)
https://www.kaplanco.com/product/628...t?c=9%7CSC1005
Super easy to use and very durable!

I'm hopingfor a QRIS grant, too
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Unregistered 04:49 PM 10-26-2016
Children must be toilet trained by three or a very short time after age three here. Recently I worked at a Montessori preschool and they took kids two to five. Kids had to be trained before enrollment........and they were!

I'm just not doing it. Nope!
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Leigh 07:43 PM 10-26-2016
Originally Posted by tenderhearts:
That's just about what I'm going to do with her. Just let them deal with it. I just get really tired of changing a 4 year old.
Stop changing the 4 year old, then. I went through this with a child, and told him I was done changing him, that I don't change kids old enough to do it themselves. I showed him how to do it the first time, and after that, he cleaned himself up. He potty trained VERY quickly after that-on his own.
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Ariana 07:58 PM 10-26-2016
My own daughter is nearly 4 and just became pee trained a few weeks ago and is still not poop trained (see my super frustrating post about it!). Sometimes it is not a parents fault the kid is just annoyingly stubborn. My eldest trained at 3 in 3 days!! No struggle!

I am using a few techniques that some of the ladies told me but so far they are are not working...but she is talking more about pooping on the potty and how she wants to do it so progress I guess.
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Ariana 07:59 PM 10-26-2016
Oh and Pinterest has some ideas on making your own light table if you are interested!
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midaycare 04:36 AM 10-27-2016
Originally Posted by Ariana:
Oh and Pinterest has some ideas on making your own light table if you are interested!

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Blackcat31 06:38 AM 10-27-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Children must be toilet trained by three or a very short time after age three here. Recently I worked at a Montessori preschool and they took kids two to five. Kids had to be trained before enrollment........and they were!

I'm just not doing it. Nope!
Requiring a child to be trained by a certain age is NOT an approach true Montessori programs use.

The entire basis of the Montessori approach is not teaching a child to do anything by a certain age but to support the on their personal journey towards independence and self sufficiency. There is no right or wrong age for any developmental skill and denying a child entrance to a program that says they are Montessori is sad...

“Learning to use the toilet is a natural process that begins when your child’s desire to be grown up and his neurological development have reached the point where he can control his bladder and bowels. We don’t train children to use the toilet, we support them when they are ready.”

(How to Raise an Amazing Child: The Montessori way to bring up caring confident children, by Tim Seldin)

http://www.themontessorinotebook.com...ilet-training/
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Unregistered 07:21 AM 10-30-2016
I just wanted to jump in here and share my experience with potty training my stepdaughter. She is 6 1/2 now but when I met her a few months after she turned 3 she was still in pull ups and no one had even so much as introduced it to her.

DH asked me at one point, before I met her, some tips on potty training as I have an older DD and I gave him standard tips like bribing with candy, having her try every so often, taking pull ups away because she wouldn't like the feeling of being wet, etc. Fast forward 5 months and we are deciding to move in together and SD is still not trained at all. At this point she was about 3 yrs 9 mos and we had tried everything we could think of. Nothing worked. She would play in wet, poopy pants for hours, it never seemed to bother her.

Eventually, we just stopped reminding her, took away the pull ups completely, and made her clean up her own messes. She "trained" pretty quickly after that but it was right around her 4th birthday before I considered her trained. Of course, she still has accidents and she is 6 1/2 now. We have since learned that she has sensory processing disorder which explains why she couldn't feel her pants were wet and why it took such a god awful long time to train her. For awhile I was pretty sure part of the problem was that everyone waited too long and she just couldn't break the habit of going in her pants but given the SPD I'm not sure that is necessarily true in her case. She wets her pants every couple of weeks now but I'm sure it happens more than that and we just don't know as she won't tell anyone about it and we still have to make her try to go to the bathroom after an hour long car ride, etc. Twice in the last few months I have asked her if she had to go and she says no and 10 minutes later she wets her pants. SPD diagnoses or not it is still SUPER frustrating to have a 6 1/2 year old child wetting herself on a semi regular basis.
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debbiedoeszip 02:37 PM 10-30-2016
Originally Posted by tenderhearts:
I have an almost 4 yr old girl (next week) who is not potty trained yet. It is the most frustrating thing. She knows, she chooses not to. The hardest part is parents say they try at home but they baby her WAY too much, especially the dad. He's a nice guy but googoos over her way too much and it drives me crazy. Anyways, I do not believe they really try, to make matters worse she goes to grandparents a day per week and I know they do not try, in so many words they have said, it's just more convenient for diapers.
I have tried and tried and have started a "reward" system, I ran it by mom and she was completely on board however she makes progress until the weekend hits, or after grandparents.
This is so frustrating. Any suggestions? I know this girl is capable just not willing...
I wouldn't do a reward system. If you have to bribe her to not soil herself, then she's not ready (despite her age, and for whatever reason). I would keep her in diapers/pull-ups, ask her every hour if she wants to use the potty, give her a small amount of praise when she does, and not give it any more thought than that. Some kids potty train very late. If the parents are ok with her in diapers, then why should you be concerned? Repeat after me: Not my kid, not my problem...LOL.
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Ariana 10:36 AM 10-31-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Requiring a child to be trained by a certain age is NOT an approach true Montessori programs use.

The entire basis of the Montessori approach is not teaching a child to do anything by a certain age but to support the on their personal journey towards independence and self sufficiency. There is no right or wrong age for any developmental skill and denying a child entrance to a program that says they are Montessori is sad...

“Learning to use the toilet is a natural process that begins when your child’s desire to be grown up and his neurological development have reached the point where he can control his bladder and bowels. We don’t train children to use the toilet, we support them when they are ready.”

(How to Raise an Amazing Child: The Montessori way to bring up caring confident children, by Tim Seldin)

http://www.themontessorinotebook.com...ilet-training/
As we both know there are more pretend montessori daycares and preschools than there are legit ones. They rope in parents by saying they are montessori and they charge them through the nose for it. It is so sad and I always tell friends and family to check the credentials first!
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Meli3773 04:33 PM 10-31-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I have an entire preschool room of activities that are for those kids that wear underwear only.

Little Legos
Big kid doll house
Markers/art cabinet
"Sewing" supplies
Light Table
Magnet board
Hot Wheels

Tons of things that have smaller pieces or that require older abilities.... you know everything a little kid WANTS desperately to have to have access to

No password required, no fees or dues, no magic words or keys required.....just underwear and the ability to use the toilet.

It's amazing how much of a motivator that can be.
I love this idea!
Reply
Unregistered 09:29 PM 10-31-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I don't involve myself in toilet training at all.

When parents choose to start, I will support their efforts (within reason) but I don't initiate the process nor do I tell them if or when I think their child is ready.

That's a parent's call.
Hello Blackcat,
At first I thought your comment was a bit minimal, but now after reading more posts and reviewing the frustrations in my daycare with potty training. . . your way seems almost zenlike and the least stressful. I have been stressing about lack of progress and failures after much progress. But now, after reading your post, I have decided to detach completely from toilet training and let the parents do all the work that i have been doing for years: training each child, with 99% of the parents doing very little if anything.
I had to write you to Thank You, for showing me the way of least resistance and taking back a chunk of my day that will now be Stressless! and giving the parents their child to toilet train.
I wonder if anyone charges extra for all the toilet training we as dc providers do! I was thinking $ 50 - $75. extra per week for this service as it has to be one of the least pleasant jobs of DC not to mention that we are being exposed to Vaccination residues / fumes with each diaper change. . . not a "good thing." I am wearing a essential oil scented mask and great inexpensive gloves from a co. called Dash. Wishing you all the best!
Vanessa
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Unregistered 09:35 PM 10-31-2016
Originally Posted by Meli3773:
I love this idea!
Thank you for sharing this great list of motivators for children who are toilet trained. I needed this!
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Unregistered 09:54 PM 10-31-2016
Originally Posted by midaycare:
BC what are your big kid activities?
Hello, in the following paragraph you offer a link to parents, but when i tried it, it didn't work. Can you retype it for us? Thank you so much!

Here is what you wrote:
I give this to parents.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_...ew?usp=sharing
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Unregistered 10:01 PM 10-31-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
It does get old and nasty but honestly, it's less stress for you over all. I mean either way you look at it, changing a poopy diaper is gross but it takes only a few minutes and wham bam you're done.

The stress of having to constantly be in "training" mode with this child has got to be way worse....

I am also betting the DCM was more than on board with you doing the reward thing because that meant doing the hard work would be YOUR problem not theirs.

I would just let her be. Let her wear diapers.

I have lots of "big kid" activities and toys that only children in underwear can partake in. If they want to play with those things or be a big kid, it doesn't take the child long to figure it out.

But I certainly won't stress about a child in diapers due to lazy parents and I certainly don't like putting in more time and attention to something that benefits mostly the parents, then the child and lastly you. The stress of training compared to the ick factor having to change a 4 yr old isn't even a difficult choice...

I give this to parents.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_...ew?usp=sharing

when it's time for me to jump in and help finish up the process, it usually takes only a day or two and that is that.
Hello Tenderhearts:
can you send to my email : ( emilyteagarden@yahoo.com ) the link you mention below, as it doesn't seem to work: you wrote: I give this to parents.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_...ew?usp=sharing

Thank you,
Vanessa
Reply
Unregistered 10:04 PM 10-31-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hello Tenderhearts:
can you send to my email : ( emilyteagarden@yahoo.com ) the link you mention below, as it doesn't seem to work: you wrote: I give this to parents.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_...ew?usp=sharing

Thank you,
Vanessa
Black Cat: Absolutely loved and agree with your comment, it is the path of least resistance and the least amount of stress! Thank you so much for it, as I needed this!
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bklsmum 06:14 AM 11-01-2016
I am with BC on this one! It is up to the parents 100% and I am not getting involved in that decision making process. I have a big kid room too but it is too new for me to tell if it motivates my group.
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Blackcat31 09:09 AM 11-01-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hello Blackcat,
At first I thought your comment was a bit minimal, but now after reading more posts and reviewing the frustrations in my daycare with potty training. . . your way seems almost zenlike and the least stressful. I have been stressing about lack of progress and failures after much progress. But now, after reading your post, I have decided to detach completely from toilet training and let the parents do all the work that i have been doing for years: training each child, with 99% of the parents doing very little if anything.
I had to write you to Thank You, for showing me the way of least resistance and taking back a chunk of my day that will now be Stressless! and giving the parents their child to toilet train.
I wonder if anyone charges extra for all the toilet training we as dc providers do! I was thinking $ 50 - $75. extra per week for this service as it has to be one of the least pleasant jobs of DC not to mention that we are being exposed to Vaccination residues / fumes with each diaper change. . . not a "good thing." I am wearing a essential oil scented mask and great inexpensive gloves from a co. called Dash. Wishing you all the best!
Vanessa
Thank you!

It IS the path of least resistance for me and eliminates the stress for the provider and the other kids in all the fall out of having to devote so much time to one child in the midst of group care.

For those of you wondering about the link, I am not sure why it does not work for you, but it may have something to do with being an unregistered poster.
Most unregistered posters don't have access to files and links posted (depending on how they are posted) so I would suggest registering with the forum and retrying.

If that doesn't work...PM and I'll see what other options are available for sharing.
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Tags:potty training, potty training issues
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