Default Style Register
Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>At Will vs Forced...Another Potty Training Woe
daycare 09:49 AM 09-04-2012
how many of you providers have PT a child the OLD SCHOOL way of forcing a child to use the toilet as they did back in the day?

Do you feel that potty training should be forced if a child reaches a certain age and is not going or do you fell that it has to be at will, regardless of age??
Reply
cheerfuldom 10:43 AM 09-04-2012
I do think that sometimes parents wait too long....waiting for these magical readiness signals to start. Not all kids work that way. If a child was not showing any interest by 2.5, I encourage parents to try potty training over a long weekend or whatever and see what their kid can do.....they might surprise us all! Is that "forcing"? I dont think so. But it is creating opportunities and encouragement. Not every kid is so obvious about their readiness to potty train. For my own kids, we always start right at or before 2 years old.
Reply
Blackcat31 10:46 AM 09-04-2012
I don't think potty training should ever be forced. However, I do think that there are times where a parent completely misses that window of opportunity and the traiing process has to become a bit more rigid.

I think that sometimes, just jumping in with both feet is necessary. What I mean by that is tossing the diapers all together and just going with undies cold turkey. It IS doable and it is messy but the results are often good.

FWIW~ I don't mean for the provider to go cold turkey...I mean the parents at home with NO connection to daycare.

I also think that if there is any negativity associated with training then it will never be a good thing and the child will continue to be resistant and a power struggle will ensue and oh lordy....what a mess then!
Reply
MaritimeMummy 11:02 AM 09-04-2012
I prefer to think of potty training as "parent aided".

Basically, I let the child go around bare-bummed with a small potty in whatever room we are in, for 3 days. The first day is always "here's the potty, there will be mostly accidents but it's okay".

The second day, same deal, but as the day goes on there are gradually less accidents and less of me having to help, and more of them finding the potty on their own and actually using it.

By the third day, pottying is successful and I only have to wipe.

After that, the parent should be prepared to ditch any pull ups, diapers, or other training pants, and completely and 100% give in to their child's cues. No underwear should be worn under the pants for about a month or two while the child adjusts to the transition.

I helped my own daughter and a DCG learn to use the potty in this method. They were the same age. Seriously, both were 100% ready, I can count on one hand how many accidents they had, combined. DCG was only here part time, 2 days a week. DCM saw how easily my DD was adapting and how well she was doing, so she asked me to help her with her daughter. She began the process on Saturday, kept with it Sunday, I got her on Monday. By the time she went home on Monday she was well on her way and was able to take herself to the potty and use it without me helping or reminding.

If a person uses this method and they are not showing progress by the third day, I'd say that child is not ready and should be given more time before trying again. I will not do it any other way, and never before the parent has had some success at home, over the weekend.
Reply
itlw8 11:41 AM 09-04-2012
I am no spring chicken but I have never heard of any old school way of forcing a child to go potty. Yes I am sure there are some that forced a child to sit to potty forced them to sit and finish their lunch. There are still people that treat children like that. It was poor parenting in the 50s and it still is.
Reply
MaritimeMummy 11:47 AM 09-04-2012
Originally Posted by itlw8:
It was poor parenting in the 50s and it still is.
Couldn't have said it better!
Reply
daycare 12:01 PM 09-04-2012
oh I agree 100% that back in the day that PT was forced and it was forced due to the social aspects of it. I read a book about PT over the years and it was actually quite sad. I read about how children were often strapped to potty chairs, hit when they failed to make the toilet and just clearly forced against their will because it reflected back on the parenting.

I am one that is all about working with the child on their terms. Besides, it is one thing that we have zero control over. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink...

The reason that I asked this question, is because I have a DCM tell me today that their family doctor said that the child has to be forced to go if at age 3.5 they are not willing to go on their own???????

My hands are tied....... I am at a loss of what I can do, other than ask the child to use the toilet on bathroom breaks and if they want to use it great, if not then there is nothing that I can do....
Reply
MaritimeMummy 12:06 PM 09-04-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
...their family doctor said that the child has to be forced to go if at age 3.5 they are not willing to go on their own???????

My hands are tied....... I am at a loss of what I can do, other than ask the child to use the toilet on bathroom breaks and if they want to use it great, if not then there is nothing that I can do....
I don't understand this! You can't force a child to go, at any age! How exactly do they plan on implementing this? Did the doctor give any sort of advice?
Reply
cheerfuldom 12:09 PM 09-04-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
oh I agree 100% that back in the day that PT was forced and it was forced due to the social aspects of it. I read a book about PT over the years and it was actually quite sad. I read about how children were often strapped to potty chairs, hit when they failed to make the toilet and just clearly forced against their will because it reflected back on the parenting.

I am one that is all about working with the child on their terms. Besides, it is one thing that we have zero control over. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink...

The reason that I asked this question, is because I have a DCM tell me today that their family doctor said that the child has to be forced to go if at age 3.5 they are not willing to go on their own???????

My hands are tied....... I am at a loss of what I can do, other than ask the child to use the toilet on bathroom breaks and if they want to use it great, if not then there is nothing that I can do....
first of all.....you cant know for sure that the doctor actually said "forced" because parents have a lovely way of twisting things they have heard. Secondly, even if he used that word, I highly doubt he meant strapping them to a toilet. I am sure that he meant the parents need to be ready to be very devoted to taking their child to the potty and really going hard at the whole process. Like Blackcat said, many parents miss the window of opportunity and make it harder on themselves and on the kids by waiting for so long.
Reply
daycare 12:12 PM 09-04-2012
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
first of all.....you cant know for sure that the doctor actually said "forced" because parents have a lovely way of twisting things they have heard. Secondly, even if he used that word, I highly doubt he meant strapping them to a toilet. I am sure that he meant the parents need to be ready to be very devoted to taking their child to the potty and really going hard at the whole process. Like Blackcat said, many parents miss the window of opportunity and make it harder on themselves and on the kids by waiting for so long.
you are so correct... I am sure the words got twisted.

In this case, the child has been PT for way too long.... Basically 2 years of PT without success.........
Reply
Willow 01:12 PM 09-04-2012
Originally Posted by daycare:
you are so correct... I am sure the words got twisted.

In this case, the child has been PT for way too long.... Basically 2 years of PT without success.........

Twisted? I'd be willing to bet the parent never even talked to a doctor.

Sounds like they pushed way too hard for way too long and are now reaping what they sowed. Two YEARS?? So they started when she was just 18 months old??! Maybe they're hoping to snow you by suggesting their doctor was actually supportive of the train wreck they've created here lol


I would refuse to have any part of it. I'd encourage the parents to completely drop the issue for a minimum of 6 months (quite possibly a year depending on how botched/confused she is) unless the child herself takes a turn all on her own.

I agree with Blackcat, there is no way no how no reason I'd ever try to "force" a child to potty train. If parents miss the boat or prematurely push their child so hard that they fall into complete opposition tough beans. That's their fault, not the child's. The child certainly doesn't deserve to be punished for any "failure" on their part.

They really do need to drop it or risk her having issues into adulthood or even longer with this.
Reply
spud912 03:04 PM 09-04-2012
I had to take potty training in my own hands with my older dd. She turned 3 and was more than capable to use the potty, but refused. She refused to get her diaper changed, refused to sit on the potty, refused to wear panties, generally refused to do anything in the bathroom. She went for stretches of time without wetting diaper, had the social skills to say when she was wet or soiled, became uncomfortable when wet or soiled, defecated in private, could pull up and down her pants, etc. She just didn't want to cooperate whatsoever with any change. She is this way with everything from the time she was old enough to express herself at 8 months old to now.

Anyway, when she turned 3, we took a long weekend and cut her off of diapers cold turkey. We had her completely naked around the house for the first 2 days and took her potty every 1-2 hours. The first day she had all accidents, the second day she peed once in the toilet, and the third day she used it 100% with no accidents. She has been potty trained ever since with ~3 accidents in 6 months. Did we have to "force" her to sit on the toilet? Yes! But it was no different when we would "force" her to change her diaper. We never strapped her down or punished her, but there were frequent incidents in those 3 days where she would throw a massive temper tantrum when we would put her on the toilet and we would make her stay for a couple of minutes (or until we felt like she tried). When she did use it, we rewarded her with praise and candy. She just doesn't like to be told what to do. Even to this day, she sometimes flips out when I ask her to go potty. It's just the way she is . . . it is her personality. No amount of us coaxing, being nice, yelling, punishing or waiting for her to do things in her own time is going to change who she is. Some kids are receptive, eager to please and generally follow directions. Other children you have to point them in the right direction and follow through to make sure they accomplish what needs to be done.

I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on the child. If they are generally good children, there should be no problem potty training using today's techniques. If you have a "spirited" child (or so they are called), you may have to resort to more stringent potty training techniques.
Reply
saved4always 03:17 PM 09-04-2012
With all 3 of my kids, we basically took a weekend to put them in undies soon after they turned 3 years old. With each, we had been half-heartedly training them for a few months. They were in pull ups so it was hit or miss with the potty (you know...they know they can go in the pull up without making a mess so they don't leave their toys to go ). With my oldest, we did the little potty chair in the middle of the playroom. He was trained in a week. With the younger two, we did the seat on the big potty and we just took the pull ups away and they each had an accident or two, realized it was not comfy to pee in undies and were trained within that weekend. We were admittedly lazy about training them (I never did mind changing a diaper...I didn't even mind when both boys were in diapers at the same time) so we did not stress over it at all and they were all definitely capable of it by the time we decided to get serious.
Reply
daycare 04:23 PM 09-04-2012
Originally Posted by spud912:
I had to take potty training in my own hands with my older dd. She turned 3 and was more than capable to use the potty, but refused. She refused to get her diaper changed, refused to sit on the potty, refused to wear panties, generally refused to do anything in the bathroom. She went for stretches of time without wetting diaper, had the social skills to say when she was wet or soiled, became uncomfortable when wet or soiled, defecated in private, could pull up and down her pants, etc. She just didn't want to cooperate whatsoever with any change. She is this way with everything from the time she was old enough to express herself at 8 months old to now.

Anyway, when she turned 3, we took a long weekend and cut her off of diapers cold turkey. We had her completely naked around the house for the first 2 days and took her potty every 1-2 hours. The first day she had all accidents, the second day she peed once in the toilet, and the third day she used it 100% with no accidents. She has been potty trained ever since with ~3 accidents in 6 months. Did we have to "force" her to sit on the toilet? Yes! But it was no different when we would "force" her to change her diaper. We never strapped her down or punished her, but there were frequent incidents in those 3 days where she would throw a massive temper tantrum when we would put her on the toilet and we would make her stay for a couple of minutes (or until we felt like she tried). When she did use it, we rewarded her with praise and candy. She just doesn't like to be told what to do. Even to this day, she sometimes flips out when I ask her to go potty. It's just the way she is . . . it is her personality. No amount of us coaxing, being nice, yelling, punishing or waiting for her to do things in her own time is going to change who she is. Some kids are receptive, eager to please and generally follow directions. Other children you have to point them in the right direction and follow through to make sure they accomplish what needs to be done.

I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on the child. If they are generally good children, there should be no problem potty training using today's techniques. If you have a "spirited" child (or so they are called), you may have to resort to more stringent potty training techniques.
wow thank you for that...this is exactly how this child is...to the T.

I will be sure to keep this in mind and have decided that I will make up a potty chat with sticker rewards, since food can't be used here as rewards.
Reply
Unregistered 10:11 AM 04-06-2017
Here's what wrong with parents and kids these days. No one gives a crap about committing themselves 100% to doing anything with their kids. We're talking about a human being peeing on themselves and being forced to sit in it because parents are too lazy to be a parent. Kids are the boss these days. If they don't want to take time away from playing and they'd rather pee and poop themselves and go about business...well, little guy must not be ready. No! You must not be ready to face any kind of struggle with your child. God forbid it take away from your cell phone time. After all you might actually have to do a little work when it comes to raising your child and that's the daycare teacher's responsibility right? Kids weren't forced then they were loved by their mothers who devoted themselves to caring for their children. They were held to higher standard which later contributed to their success. Kids these days live with parents til they're 30 and invite friends over to sing kumbaya in the basement cause that's what makes the world go round in their heads. Don't worry moms they'll get a job and move out when they're ready. After all isn't that how they'll be taught to live life? Live life on your terms when you're ready. Maybe your future fast food worker with make manager some day so that they can pay for their own insurance and stop mooching off the rest of the people whose parents governed them instead of the other way around. But hey don't worry...I'm sure once they get someone pregnant or get pregnant they'll be ready to move out. But they might not be "ready" so have fun raising your grandkids. Or maybe since they aren't ready they'll murder your first grandchild through abprtion. Either way things will be ok because eventually they will be ready for life.
Reply
debbiedoeszip 01:44 PM 04-06-2017
Originally Posted by daycare:
how many of you providers have PT a child the OLD SCHOOL way of forcing a child to use the toilet as they did back in the day?

Do you feel that potty training should be forced if a child reaches a certain age and is not going or do you fell that it has to be at will, regardless of age??
I'm 46 and the only "old school" way of pt that I know of involved long stretches of time spent sitting on the potty and punishment for accidents. IMO and experience, I find that a lot of parents who are are struggling with potty training, the situation they end up with is more elimination communication than potty training. A child who is ready to potty train will have some investment in the process and won't need to be brainwashed into peeing on the potty or have their parent do most of the "work". IOW, it shouldn't be that hard if the child is truly ready.

My DS trained late and had developmental issues that caused this. He's not special needs but just late-ish on some of his milestones (including potty training). In his case, he had anxiety with regard to change (no he's not AS) and lacked the maturity needed to be invested. A few months after his 4th birthday, he potty trained completely in 2 days with his only accident occuring during his first overnight without a pull-up. He didn't need to be forced, he just needed time to mature.
Reply
Controlled Chaos 02:28 PM 04-06-2017
Nevermind
Reply
Pestle 03:36 PM 04-06-2017
Really wish only registered members could "bump" a post that's over, say, a month old.
Reply
Cat Herder 03:42 PM 04-06-2017
Angry boomers are angry.

There was some truth there, but the pendulum swing was a bit too broad.
Reply
daycare 07:29 PM 04-06-2017
Oh my that unregistered made me scared. What a horrific thing to say. Wow wee
Reply
CeriBear 01:23 PM 04-08-2017
Originally Posted by daycare:
Oh my that unregistered made me scared. What a horrific thing to say. Wow wee
Yes! Yikes!
Reply
Tags:2012, derailed, potty training
Reply Up