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Old 06-08-2015, 12:22 PM
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Good afternoon, Sorry for the long thread

I have a previous client that returned.
Mom does not want child to nap for if child does then the child does not got to sleep (bed) for them when they want child to, child ends up playing in room on table and watches t.v. and toys until 10:30 / 11:00 pm......

The child has been back for awhile (about a month) the first little bit child was part time child is now full time with very young sibling. The first week the child was back in my care mom sent child's table for child, for nap time so that child could play on it and stay awake, so that child would go to bed for them at night, and be quiet for the other child that would be sleeping. I allowed for the fist week to see how it would go. Day 2 the child fell asleep about an hour / hour and half into the nap time, giving child about 20 mins. When I would have to wake child up so that we could have snack and get ready for out side and home time, child would cry for still tired. Mom was not happy that child fell asleep for the next day she said child would not go to sleep for them child was up til 11:30pm. Second week no table for I had to take it away for the child would not share or let the other child look at it and go upset when I put it up so it would not get broken.. Told mom that I had things for child to do quietly during nap time so not to bring it back in. It has been just over a month that child has been back with younger sibling and VERY DAY I AM ON CHILD TO NOT FALL ASLEEP,even when child has quiet thing to do and every day child starts to cry for he is very tired his poor head is falling over every 5 to 10 mins.

I did mention it to dad one day I believe it was about the third week, that child is having a hard time trying to stay awake. Dad just shrugged it off....

Do I just let child sleep for child obviously needs it... Do I keep on child to stay awake so that it's easier on mom and dad to put child in room with bottle, and table at 6 / 7pm so child will be asleep by 8pm (doing this means NO bathroom or lunch break for me, no return calls or message checking, which would mean my bathroom holding would go from 7:00 am straight through to 6:00 pm ).... Do I keep lights and every thing on so that child does not have the quiet time music or darkness and keep younger sibling awake along with other child in care and have mom upset that younger sibling is tired along with have the other client upset that their child is not getting the nap that they need. ??????????????


Thanks Ladies,
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
Good afternoon, Sorry for the long thread

I have a previous client that returned.
Mom does not want child to nap for if child does then the child does not got to sleep (bed) for them when they want child to, child ends up playing in room on table and watches t.v. and toys until 10:30 / 11:00 pm......

The child has been back for awhile (about a month) the first little bit child was part time child is now full time with very young sibling. The first week the child was back in my care mom sent child's table for child, for nap time so that child could play on it and stay awake, so that child would go to bed for them at night, and be quiet for the other child that would be sleeping. I allowed for the fist week to see how it would go. Day 2 the child fell asleep about an hour / hour and half into the nap time, giving child about 20 mins. When I would have to wake child up so that we could have snack and get ready for out side and home time, child would cry for still tired. Mom was not happy that child fell asleep for the next day she said child would not go to sleep for them child was up til 11:30pm. Second week no table for I had to take it away for the child would not share or let the other child look at it and go upset when I put it up so it would not get broken.. Told mom that I had things for child to do quietly during nap time so not to bring it back in. It has been just over a month that child has been back with younger sibling and VERY DAY I AM ON CHILD TO NOT FALL ASLEEP,even when child has quiet thing to do and every day child starts to cry for he is very tired his poor head is falling over every 5 to 10 mins.

I did mention it to dad one day I believe it was about the third week, that child is having a hard time trying to stay awake. Dad just shrugged it off....

Do I just let child sleep for child obviously needs it... Do I keep on child to stay awake so that it's easier on mom and dad to put child in room with bottle, and table at 6 / 7pm so child will be asleep by 8pm (doing this means NO bathroom or lunch break for me, no return calls or message checking, which would mean my bathroom holding would go from 7:00 am straight through to 6:00 pm ).... Do I keep lights and every thing on so that child does not have the quiet time music or darkness and keep younger sibling awake along with other child in care and have mom upset that younger sibling is tired along with have the other client upset that their child is not getting the nap that they need. ??????????????


Thanks Ladies,
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:51 PM
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3, 3, 8m
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
Good afternoon, Sorry for the long thread

I have a previous client that returned.
Mom does not want child to nap for if child does then the child does not got to sleep (bed) for them when they want child to, child ends up playing in room on table and watches t.v. and toys until 10:30 / 11:00 pm......

The child has been back for awhile (about a month) the first little bit child was part time child is now full time with very young sibling. The first week the child was back in my care mom sent child's table for child, for nap time so that child could play on it and stay awake, so that child would go to bed for them at night, and be quiet for the other child that would be sleeping. I allowed for the fist week to see how it would go. Day 2 the child fell asleep about an hour / hour and half into the nap time, giving child about 20 mins. When I would have to wake child up so that we could have snack and get ready for out side and home time, child would cry for still tired. Mom was not happy that child fell asleep for the next day she said child would not go to sleep for them child was up til 11:30pm. Second week no table for I had to take it away for the child would not share or let the other child look at it and go upset when I put it up so it would not get broken.. Told mom that I had things for child to do quietly during nap time so not to bring it back in. It has been just over a month that child has been back with younger sibling and VERY DAY I AM ON CHILD TO NOT FALL ASLEEP,even when child has quiet thing to do and every day child starts to cry for he is very tired his poor head is falling over every 5 to 10 mins.

I did mention it to dad one day I believe it was about the third week, that child is having a hard time trying to stay awake. Dad just shrugged it off....

Do I just let child sleep for child obviously needs it... Do I keep on child to stay awake so that it's easier on mom and dad to put child in room with bottle, and table at 6 / 7pm so child will be asleep by 8pm (doing this means NO bathroom or lunch break for me, no return calls or message checking, which would mean my bathroom holding would go from 7:00 am straight through to 6:00 pm ).... Do I keep lights and every thing on so that child does not have the quiet time music or darkness and keep younger sibling awake along with other child in care and have mom upset that younger sibling is tired along with have the other client upset that their child is not getting the nap that they need. ??????????????


Thanks Ladies,
What I'd do is tell the mom he didn't sleep but I'd let him sleep. I might let him sleep a little shorter time than the others like maybe a half hour less. A little white lie never hurt anyone.

If you are not comfortable with that then I'd tell the mom truthfully (this time ) that he is tired and needs sleep PLUS you need a break as you work 12 hour days or however long you work. Any reasonable person can understand that and if they can't who needs them. If a child can't/won't nap then you would have to choice but not to watch them anymore.

Laurel
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurel View Post
What I'd do is tell the mom he didn't sleep but I'd let him sleep. I might let him sleep a little shorter time than the others like maybe a half hour less. A little white lie never hurt anyone.

If you are not comfortable with that then I'd tell the mom truthfully (this time ) that he is tired and needs sleep PLUS you need a break as you work 12 hour days or however long you work. Any reasonable person can understand that and if they can't who needs them. If a child can't/won't nap then you would have to choice but not to watch them anymore.

Laurel
Do you have a nap policy in place? I never say that naps are for my breaks... parents don't respond to that at all. Naps are their child's break. Even if they don't nap, they need downtime.

What mine says is that every child lies down for a rest. If they fall asleep, I do not wake them. If they don't sleep, they can get up after an hour and I have quiet activities for them.

Quiet activities (in my house): blanket on floor with one of books, lego, colouring, puzzles

The summer before they start school they are no longer required to nap. So they will have the same quiet activities as above but no lying down.

I let parents know that just as you can't force a child to fall asleep, I will not force a child to stay awake. A daycare environment is much busier than home and children often give up a nap at home first before they do at daycare.
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:39 PM
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Rest time is a state requirement here, and I think for most states. Even if that weren't the case, I'd still have them rest--they need it!
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:06 PM
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I didn't catch the age of the child, but if the child is still on the bottle, that kid DEFINITELY needs a nap. Tell parents that you try but are unable to keep child awake and that child WILL be allowed to nap at your house. If that means that they want to find another provider, so be it. No way should you be so stressed out over it. I'm wondering if this kid is exposed to electronic media the entire night and that is what is keeping him awake at night.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:52 AM
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Thank you ladies

The child is 3yrs soon to be 4. Child gets a bottle when they put child into bedroom for bed. At which child also has access to electronics (tablet, t.v.) or did not to sure if child still does or not for child said something about mommy taking the tablet away because it was making his eyes blink ("mommy took it away cause it make my eyes do this").... Child was squinting and blinking the eyes a LOT ( not so much in the last week or two)....

My policy is very similar Daycaremom's .... ALL children will have a nap / rest time where they must lie down on cots quietly, if child falls asleep then they fall asleep, if child does not fall asleep after the first hour and 15 mins then child is able to look at a book quietly or get the quiet bag out on their beds. I let all my clients know that the nap quite time is for both the children and myself for we all need a down time....

I have done where I will allow the child to fall asleep for the early part of the nap time and wake up for the second part of nap and allow the child to do the quiet activities on child's cot, the thing with this is that the child ends up falling back to sleep...

The thing with this child is that the child is still falling to sleep even with the quiet activities... the only way that I am able to keep child awake is if child is up off the cot running around and playing with louder toys.... Mom actually told the child the second week back ( "Now remember no sleeping remember, if you find yourself going to sleep jump up and dance around ok but no sleeping" ) then turns to me and says ( "He can't sleep because he's not going to bed for us at night he just ends up playing on his tablet and with his toys, yeah he was up til 11:30 last night" ).... So to please mom I have been on child every day to stay awake...

Thanks again ladies.....
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:00 AM
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Mom actually told the child the second week back ( "Now remember no sleeping remember, if you find yourself going to sleep jump up and dance around ok but no sleeping" ) then turns to me and says ( "He can't sleep because he's not going to bed for us at night he just ends up playing on his tablet and with his toys, yeah he was up til 11:30 last night" ).... So to please mom I have been on child every day to stay awake...
Oh, HECK NO!

That is so RUDE. "DCM, this is a napping day care, if Jr. has outgrown nap, then he has outgrown my care." PERIOD.

I will NOT keep a child up. If a child has truly outgrown the nap, and is able to stay up INDEPENDENTLY, then and only then do I consider quiet time activity. And that's usually only for kids who are leaving for K in a few weeks.
But your client is being your boss, and there is no way I'd allow that.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:04 AM
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Oh, HECK NO!

That is so RUDE. "DCM, this is a napping day care, if Jr. has outgrown nap, then he has outgrown my care." PERIOD.

I will NOT keep a child up. If a child has truly outgrown the nap, and is able to stay up INDEPENDENTLY, then and only then do I consider quiet time activity. And that's usually only for kids who are leaving for K in a few weeks.
But your client is being your boss, and there is no way I'd allow that.
I agree with all of this.

How is it your fault that he won't sleep at home? They don't have a good routine and they don't enforce it. Tablet playing? Take it from his room. Playing toys? Remove them.

They just want him to be so tired he will fall into bed and they don't have to parent.

Establish a routine and stick to it. Be the boss!

Ridiculous. (Sorry, dealing with some over tired kiddos here today. Rant over!)
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:21 AM
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Do you have a nap policy in place? I never say that naps are for my breaks... parents don't respond to that at all. Naps are their child's break. Even if they don't nap, they need downtime.

What mine says is that every child lies down for a rest. If they fall asleep, I do not wake them. If they don't sleep, they can get up after an hour and I have quiet activities for them.

Quiet activities (in my house): blanket on floor with one of books, lego, colouring, puzzles

The summer before they start school they are no longer required to nap. So they will have the same quiet activities as above but no lying down.

I let parents know that just as you can't force a child to fall asleep, I will not force a child to stay awake. A daycare environment is much busier than home and children often give up a nap at home first before they do at daycare.
I am retired after doing home daycare for 20 years. No, mostly I didn't have to tell the parents it was for a break for me because the children do need down time and that is the approach I would use. However, I have once or twice when I've had a resistant parent who didn't want their child to nap.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Adults DO need breaks. They get a lunch break at their job.

This was used as a last resort if they insisted on no naps. I don't think anyone ever did insist though. They don't get to insist and stay with me. We worked out problems. I never had to term anyone but I would have if necessary. Okay there are 2 that I should have termed.

Laurel
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Play Care View Post
Oh, HECK NO!

That is so RUDE. "DCM, this is a napping day care, if Jr. has outgrown nap, then he has outgrown my care." PERIOD.

I will NOT keep a child up. If a child has truly outgrown the nap, and is able to stay up INDEPENDENTLY, then and only then do I consider quiet time activity. And that's usually only for kids who are leaving for K in a few weeks.
But your client is being your boss, and there is no way I'd allow that.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:23 AM
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Ok. At almost 4 they put him to bed w a bottle and TV or tablet? Well there's moms problem. She's lucky she isn't one of my parents. She'd get an earful.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:43 AM
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I feel the same as Play Care and Daycaremom... I'm just unsure how to handle this family for 1- they are a good family (just mom and dad (more mom) gets under my skin some days) 2- they always pay on time, 3- I can't afford to lose them at this time (unless I want to lose my house and vehicle)

My husband gets all my rants after every one is gone home for the day...... I soo feel bad for him....lol.... he is a trouper. He actually agrees as well with what a few of you have said...

I have had this family since the child was about 2 yrs she pulled child for maturity and placed child into a center based care for a few days a week, until she wanted to go back to work then she came back to me. I have had a few issues in the past regarding this client which I believe I have post on here before about. She actually contacted me well before she planned on going back to work to see what my policy was on days (how many days I required per week to enroll).. She said the her child was being bullied by the other children and the staff did nothing and did not care, and that she was tired of always telling the staff that her child was just pushed by another child or had a toy taken from another child and the staff just waving it off. Said that there was no structure there and that her child's behavior was unbearable since going there, that he had started to hit, bite, pinch more at home and the hurting the baby.....

Again thank you all ..... I do love this site it has helps out sooo many providers and parents.....
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:33 PM
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I've mentioned it before, but when I worked in a center, the preschool teachers were instructed to keep a dcb awake for these same reasons.

Everyday, the teachers would have to physically hold him awake, while he would cry his eyes out from being so tired. Our director used to come upstairs to make sure the child wasn't asleep!

Anyway, it seemed like abuse to me- the poor child was a mess! A vicious cycle- the kid was up late because of lack of consistency at home, would get up far too early for daycare, need a nap, not get one, catch a second wind after daycare and repeat.

So the director's response to the teacher's pleas to let the poor kid sleep-
She allowed ALL the preschoolers that didn't nap after 30 mins (3 yr olds) to get up and play "quiet" activities, which they never were quiet and those darn kids would wake almost every other kid sleeping!

Anyway, the whole thing was ridiculous. I'm a firm believer in young kids needing rest.
For me, it's not about a break. I stop napping kids at age 4, and I have several up each day.
But, if a child is tired, I'm not going to deny them sleep.

2 options: either lie and say he isn't napping and see the miraculous "change" the child suddenly has with sleeping (some how just the parent being satisfied she has gotten her way leads to the child being a better sleeper )
Or, tell her the child will nap, if she's tired.
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Old 06-09-2015, 02:19 PM
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Legally, we cannot force a child to stay awake. We have to provide a quiet rest time.
What does licensing say for you?
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:08 PM
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Agree with other posters on here. It seems like it's becoming a very common trend for DCFs to want their providers to keep kids up from nap. I've complained of this very thing on here before. Honestly in this situaton usually will just get you an open spot. I think the parents feel that we are just lazy if we won't keep them up-never mind the 2 babies on different nap schedules many of us have, so there never is a time when everyone is asleep to truly afford us a break! They just won't admit how it makes their kid a train wreck all day long.

All you can do is either let them think kiddo is not napping (which is a miracle cure!), or stand your ground and be prepared for them to pull both kids.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:04 PM
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1. An overtried child is harder to get to sleep then a child that gets too much sleep
2. The light from a tablet or other devices like tv cause are brians to not want to go to sleep.
3. What is a 3 year old doing with his own tablet??
3.a. Ban all outside electronic device from your home.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:09 AM
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I spoke to dad again last night, stating that I will no longer be on top of child to stay awake for it is not good for the child and my self. I said that if child starts to nod off then I was going to let child sleep and wake up at normal wake up time. Again he just says - oh alright and walked away ( other issue also happened at pick different story )... Mom was on the quiet side this morning at drop off.... did not say much just that neither one had sun screen on and that next Tuesday she would be dropping off younger sibling for older child has an appointment and she would drop off after.... she then left.....


Thanks again
All you ladies are great.....
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