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  #1  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:29 AM
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Angry I Need Help With How To Proceed. Too Mad To Think Clearly-HELP!

I am so mad and I need help thinking clearly so I handle this right.

I sent DCB home monday with diaharrea.

They kept him home Tues and Weds..

They brought him back today and said he was completely fine. Well right after breakfast, he had another blow out, same sick smell. It got all over me and my floor, and him and his clothes.

I text his parents and we all talked, and all they kept saying was that it has to be teething, or food, and that he had a "loose stool" yesterday but no liquid diaharrea and he acted completely normal and happy. They see no reason to come and pick him up today.

I am terming him tomorrow at pick up. This is the 5th episode of diaharrea in 6 months, he brought HFMD, he always has something contageous and they dont get it, or ever think he is sick. My kids have caught his "teething" every time.. I am pregnant and the stress and illness caused by this kid is beyond what I want to handle. I showed DH the diaper this morning and he signed off on me terming him.

How do I term him? DCP's are VERY good friends with my best friend and her family, so everyone is very close. I do not want to leave on bad terms, although I know it is kind of impossible when terming a kid. I was thinking about saying since I am pregnant I am just reducing my numbers?? Is there a way to term and leave on good terms?

Can you help me with the wording of the letter? What do I say to the parents?

Help. Thanks!
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:47 AM
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save them the diaper and the clothes and send them all home with him. I had a kid like this, made everyone sick for months. dad always gave me an excuse. When I came back from vacation, I came to find out that he was so sick that gma didn't know what to do. I told them that he couldn't come back till I had a dr's note. He didn't come back, but I suspect he has something and dad didn't want to tell me. I never ever had children so sick till I started with this kid and it all led back to him.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:47 AM
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I can't help with the terming, sorry, but I hope it all goes well.

If the diarrhea has a really sick smell and is recurring, I would definitely suggest they have him tested for an intestinal bacteria. It sounds very much like one to me.

Hope it all works out!
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:17 AM
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I left on bad terms with dcfamily's best friends last year. I still have dcfamily and nothing changed with that. So, there's some hope.

It was really bad terms, too. Involving false accusations of abuse, etc. I was prepared to lose dcfamily but didn't. They're still here and bringing kid #2 to me.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:17 AM
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That is where I am- I have never really had sick kids until this one showed up, and it has been problem after problem.

I suggested to dcp's, based on the frequency and consistency and smell that it seems to be some sort of "bug" but they refuse to believe me because he is always so happy.

I need help mostly with terming a "friend" and how to delicately do it.
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:26 AM
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First thing you need to do is stop worrying about WHY someone has diarrhea. They do. PERIOD. That is how you need to explain it to the parents as well. You need to say, it doesn't matter why he has diarrhea and whether or not he is happy. I currently have 2 kids out with diarrhea and both of them are happy as clams with no mood changes at all.

The reason you send kids home who has diarrhea is so that the spread of potential illness is avoided and since there is no possible way to know 100% if the diarrhea is from something he ate, or from teething or simply because he just has it means he HAS to go home.

I tell my parents that WHY is the last part of any discussion when it comes to fever, diarrhea and rashes...etc. If they have them, the kids go home according to CDC recommendations. We can discuss the why later but it mostly just fluff talk.

If they have certain symptoms, they go home.

As far as the letter to term if you still wish to do so I can help you with that if you want. Just PM me and let me know....

FWIW~ some kids are just sicker than others. It doesnt always have to do with eating, sleeping or diet....some are just that way.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:55 AM
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Even if he's not "ill"....uncontrollable poop all over a daycare is a health hazard!

It doesn't matter if he's a healthy/happy pooper or not!

Term them and explain it's not personal...you just have to keep the other kids healthy and you can't do that with poop all over the place.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:00 AM
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Have they ever taken him to a doctor? Perhaps you would feel better if they actually addressed the issue? It could be as simple as changing his formula but like you said, no matter what the reason why, you cannot keep cleaning him up every change. I would be honest and say that I feel the issue needs to be addressed. If they disagree, you will let them look for a daycare that provides sick care so that he is not being constantly sent home all the time. You cannot provide care for a child that has these issues so much and you don't want to have to send him home weekly. I would give them one more chance to show that they are prepared to deal with the issue or choose on their own to go to another daycare. That way THEY are choosing.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:04 AM
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Where I live we have health standards set forth by daycare licensing that include diarreah. Explain to them (if your state has this) that you have to go by the licensing standards. Let them know it is a health hazzard and how would they like it if another child was doing the same thing? Is anyone else getting sick with diarreah? If they are explain that he is contagious!
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:06 AM
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Thanks for all of your responses! Cheerful- I have already given them multiple chances so Im terming tomorrow 100%. Blackcat- I PM'd you.

I wish I had taken the approach earlier that it does not matter "why," but the fact that he had symptoms is the issue. They will not even acknowledge that it is diaharrea- they call it, "loose stools."
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SunshineMama View Post
Thanks for all of your responses! Cheerful- I have already given them multiple chances so Im terming tomorrow 100%. Blackcat- I PM'd you.

I wish I had taken the approach earlier that it does not matter "why," but the fact that he had symptoms is the issue. They will not even acknowledge that it is diaharrea- they call it, "loose stools."
okay well you do what you need to do. I'm sorry they are too dense to see that "loose stools" is a real health concern. He could be fighting the same nasty virus over and over, getting dehydrated and such. I hope this is a wake up call for them but it might take a few providers saying the same thing until they realize that this is about THEM and not YOU.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:08 AM
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If you want to stay on good terms, I would write a note like this:

Dear DCM,

It has been a pleasure working with your adorable son over the past (BLANK) months. He is truly a special little boy. Unfortunately, I have realized with my pregnancy and new baby on the way that I must cut down on enrollment. I am giving you two weeks to find new arrangements which means that I will no longer be able to care for "poopy boy" after June 1, 2012.

Warm regards,
Sick of sickies
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  #13  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CheekyChick View Post
If you want to stay on good terms, I would write a note like this:

Dear DCM,

It has been a pleasure working with your adorable son over the past (BLANK) months. He is truly a special little boy. Unfortunately, I have realized with my pregnancy and new baby on the way that I must cut down on enrollment. I am giving you two weeks to find new arrangements which means that I will no longer be able to care for "poopy boy" after June 1, 2012.

Warm regards,
Sick of sickies
Lol I needed that laugh (poopy boy)! Good letter! What do I say to the parents? I don't want to just stick a letter in his bag. I'm a non confrontational chicken but I am going to stand my ground on this one.
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:34 AM
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OK IMHO, once you smell rotavirus, you will always know the smell.

He needs to have a stool sample tested and a doctors note stating what it is.

IF it's rotavirus, he needs to be at home. The diarehha lasts for almost 2 weeks.

It is very contagious.
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  #15  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:15 AM
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OK IMHO, once you smell rotavirus, you will always know the smell.

He needs to have a stool sample tested and a doctors note stating what it is.

IF it's rotavirus, he needs to be at home. The diarehha lasts for almost 2 weeks.

It is very contagious.
I feel very strongly that it is definitely some sort of a virus, and it had a VERY specific smell to it.

I have suggested the doctor to them and they still maintain it is teething and/or food. Every excuse in the book. I can't even get them to call the doctor.

Really, I'm terming the parents, because it's not the child's fault
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:39 AM
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Sounds to me like you need to update you sickness policy to add that the symptoms for exclusion apply even for infants that are teething. I also like the idea of adding that the WHY doesn't matter, it's the WHAT that does. You may want to add that also ... I know I will.

As far as talking to them ... that's another thing altogether. I don't like confrontation as much as the next person but at this point it seems like it has to be done so good for you for making this decision and sticking to it.

I would just reiderate what CheekyChick said in her sample letter. Pretty much just verbally tell them what's in the letter word for word and don't veer off what it says. If they ask why (and they will) just repeat yourself and give short general answers with a compassionate smile. It'll be akward for you but you'll get through it.

YOU: Susan, you have a minute?
DCM: Sure, what's up?
YOU: You know that I have loved working with you and having Johnny here has been a blast (no pun indended). He's so sweet and adorable and I love having him here. I have realized with my pregnancy and new baby on the way that I must cut down on enrollment. I am giving you two weeks to find new arrangements which means that I will no longer be able to care for Johnny after June 1, 2012.
DCM: Oh, what do you mean? You can't watch Johnny anymore?
YOU: (shake your head) No, unfortunately.
DCM: Why?
YOU: I have realized with my pregnancy and new baby on the way that I must cut down on enrollment.
DCM: Well, can't you watch him a little longer? What if I can't find DC in that time?
YOU: I am giving you two weeks to find new arrangements which means that I will no longer be able to care for Johnny after June 1, 2012.
Rinse and repeat.
She'll get the point.
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  #17  
Old 05-17-2012, 09:47 AM
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LOL "A Blast"

Glad I can get a few laughs out of this situation. It has been quite the "blast"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
Sounds to me like you need to update you sickness policy to add that the symptoms for exclusion apply even for infants that are teething. I also like the idea of adding that the WHY doesn't matter, it's the WHAT that does. You may want to add that also ... I know I will.

As far as talking to them ... that's another thing altogether. I don't like confrontation as much as the next person but at this point it seems like it has to be done so good for you for making this decision and sticking to it.

I would just reiderate what CheekyChick said in her sample letter. Pretty much just verbally tell them what's in the letter word for word and don't veer off what it says. If they ask why (and they will) just repeat yourself and give short general answers with a compassionate smile. It'll be akward for you but you'll get through it.

YOU: Susan, you have a minute?
DCM: Sure, what's up?
YOU: You know that I have loved working with you and having Johnny here has been a blast (no pun indended). He's so sweet and adorable and I love having him here. I have realized with my pregnancy and new baby on the way that I must cut down on enrollment. I am giving you two weeks to find new arrangements which means that I will no longer be able to care for Johnny after June 1, 2012.
DCM: Oh, what do you mean? You can't watch Johnny anymore?
YOU: (shake your head) No, unfortunately.
DCM: Why?
YOU: I have realized with my pregnancy and new baby on the way that I must cut down on enrollment.
DCM: Well, can't you watch him a little longer? What if I can't find DC in that time?
YOU: I am giving you two weeks to find new arrangements which means that I will no longer be able to care for Johnny after June 1, 2012.
Rinse and repeat.
She'll get the point.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SunshineMama View Post
I feel very strongly that it is definitely some sort of a virus, and it had a VERY specific smell to it.

I have suggested the doctor to them and they still maintain it is teething and/or food. Every excuse in the book. I can't even get them to call the doctor.

Really, I'm terming the parents, because it's not the child's fault
YOu need to put your foot down...I know you want to get them out the door, but this is your house and your business. If the child came in the door today and had one episode, I would be demanding that they come pick him up. If they don't then call emergency contacts.



I would be telling them WHY, as others posted.....Then, in the future, I would be telling them that the DCK CANNOT come back until they give you a doctors note stating what the child has. NOT a note saying DCK can return to care or a note saying NOT contagious.

Tell them that you need to do this to keep all children safe, including theirs.

Last edited by daycare; 05-17-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:41 AM
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I would come at this from a pregnancy angle personally. I would tell her that you need to term because you are pregnant and are not willing to take the chance of getting a bacterial infection from changing "loose stools" all the time. Make it all about you. Parents tend to take this type of termination a little better.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheekyChick View Post
If you want to stay on good terms, I would write a note like this:

Dear DCM,

It has been a pleasure working with your adorable son over the past (BLANK) months. He is truly a special little boy. Unfortunately, I have realized with my pregnancy and new baby on the way that I must cut down on enrollment. I am giving you two weeks to find new arrangements which means that I will no longer be able to care for "poopy boy" after June 1, 2012.

Warm regards,
Sick of sickies
Love this! Perfect! "poopy pants" cracks me up!
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:47 AM
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I had one of these a few years ago. Once He no longer came we all stopped getting sick. He brought in the stomach bug 4 times in less than 6 months!!!!!!!!

Same awful offensive smell each time. I got to the point I could smell the virus on him when he came in the door. She always claimed he was fine. But then Bam a blow out.
It is so nice. I haven't had a stomah flu since he has been gone. KNOCK on wood!
Tell her the truth so she can learn something! Don't bring your kid sick.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:50 AM
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Angry

I just called them to pick him up. He got more diaharrea all over the PNP and himself again and I had to even bathe him. Im giving their 2 weeks when they come. And no, he can't come tomorrow. Im so done.

I wrote them a note in their book that said even if it is teething or food related, stools that cant be contained in a diaper are not allowed per licensing. I'm not licensed but I still abide by their guidelines. I also suggested they have him tested for food allergies if they think its food, and take a stool sample in to the doctors. And I am handing them the separate term letter.

PHEW! Thank you all for the strength to do this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by daycare View Post
YOu need to put your foot down...I know you want to get them out the door, but this is your house and your business. If the child came in the door today and had one episode, I would be demanding that they come pick him up. If they don't then call emergency contacts.



I would be telling them WHY, as others posted.....Then, in the future, I would be telling them that the DCK CANNOT come back until they give you a doctors note stating what the child has. NOT a note saying DCK can return to care or a note saying NOT contagious.

Tell them that you need to do this to keep all children safe, including theirs.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:51 AM
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Before terming, I would demand a doctors note- explain your policies clear to the parents once again and offer up that being pregnant you will not deviate from your clear rules. If you truly just want to down size then by all means do it. If you want care for this child figure out what is wrong with them and EXPECT the parents to help you do this, having them take him do the doctor, allergy testing, picking him up when you are not able to take him because of his illness.

If it is not a virus- I feel it sounds like lactose intolerant, or food allergy. Teething will cause lose stools- I don't care what the doctors say on this. I know from experience that kids that are teething often have lose bowels. Regardless, you need to speak up and enforce your rules. You have one half hour to pick up little pooper or I will calling your back up care and I will term from that point on. That will let her know that you mean business. Respecting you is something that needs to be talked about in the interview phase. Working together for the good of the child not seeing each other as enemies. I mean we all know our parents have to work and that is why the child is with us, so to send a child home for no reason in counterproductive on our part. I know there are times we would love too!!! Professionally we don't do that, if I call you to come get your child it is for a reason and for the whole of the group. Don't ever let a parent walk on you. You are the boss of your business! Best-

I personally put up with mild lose stools--- fever to go with it- no way- marked illness- no way. I myself am also mildly lactose intolerant.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SunshineMama View Post
Lol I needed that laugh (poopy boy)! Good letter! What do I say to the parents? I don't want to just stick a letter in his bag. I'm a non confrontational chicken but I am going to stand my ground on this one.
What do you say to the parents... Ugh. I am a non-confrontational chicken as well. That is definitely an area I need to work on.

If you really, really, really can't find the strength to do it in person, I would e-mail this to her NOW.

Dear DCM,

It has been a pleasure working with your adorable son over the past (BLANK) months. He is truly a special little boy. Unfortunately, I have realized with my pregnancy and new baby on the way that I must cut down on enrollment. I am giving you two weeks to find new arrangements which means that I will no longer be able to care for "poopy boy" after June 1, 2012.

I am sending you this letter by e-mail which will be followed by a paper copy upon pick up. After making my decision today, I felt it was only fair to alert you immediately as to give you the optimal amount of time to begin your search.


Warm regards,
Sick of sickies

PS: By the time she picks up tonight, she will have had time to digest the letter and won't be as upset as if you were to tell her in person. I hope. LOL!!!

Last edited by CheekyChick; 05-17-2012 at 11:03 AM. Reason: PS
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:59 AM
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I had one of these a few years ago. Once He no longer came we all stopped getting sick. He brought in the stomach bug 4 times in less than 6 months!!!!!!!!

Same awful offensive smell each time. I got to the point I could smell the virus on him when he came in the door. She always claimed he was fine. But then Bam a blow out.
It is so nice. I haven't had a stomah flu since he has been gone. KNOCK on wood!
Tell her the truth so she can learn something! Don't bring your kid sick.
I can smell it too! I was an almost 100% never sick daycare ever, and since he has come everyone has been sick with so many different things. Hes a great kid but I am not exposing myself, my unborn child, or the several other children that I care for. I have addressed sending to the doctor in the past and they always brush it off.

Unregistered: I have heard of teething causing mildly loose stools- this child's stools are liquid yellow water, have that virusy smell, and have been ongoing all week. This is the 5th or 6th time in 6 months this has ocurred, and everytime at least one other child gets ill as well. This particular child has a very low immune system and catches everything, which, coupled with his parents always taking him everywhere, just is a recipe for illness all around. What they want to do eith their child is fine, but I just can't have that in my home.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineMama View Post
I can smell it too! I was an almost 100% never sick daycare ever, and since he has come everyone has been sick with so many different things. Hes a great kid but I am not exposing myself, my unborn child, or the several other children that I care for. I have addressed sending to the doctor in the past and they always brush it off.

Unregistered: I have heard of teething causing mildly loose stools- this child's stools are liquid yellow water, have that virusy smell, and have been ongoing all week. This is the 5th or 6th time in 6 months this has ocurred, and everytime at least one other child gets ill as well. This particular child has a very low immune system and catches everything, which, coupled with his parents always taking him everywhere, just is a recipe for illness all around. What they want to do eith their child is fine, but I just can't have that in my home.
If it has an offensive odor it is a bug!! always.
I mean it all stinks but there is a difference.
Some people are more prone to stomach bugs that ARE contagious for varios reasons.. ie low immune system, nastiness, poor hygene, poor food prep habits and also hanging out with these sorts of people on top of the regular just catchin a bug.


If it is okay with your doc you might take some Vitamin D to keep your self from catching it. Seeing as you were covered in it.
I term this child also.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
If it has an offensive odor it is a bug!! always.
I mean it all stinks but there is a difference.
Some people are more prone to stomach bugs that ARE contagious for varios reasons.. ie low immune system, nastiness, poor hygene, poor food prep habits and also hanging out with these sorts of people on top of the regular just catchin a bug.


If it is okay with your doc you might take some Vitamin D to keep your self from catching it. Seeing as you were covered in it.
I term this child also.
Agreed- there is a particular sick stench that you just know when it is a bug when you have been doing childcare for so long.

Now I am waiting, going on an hour for them to get him, during my break time again

Im glad I made the decision to term. I am so done.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:49 PM
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I don't know if I'd give 2 weeks especially since they are now taking a long time to pick him up. I'd just be done with him today!!

Sorry your going through this.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:54 PM
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I don't know if I'd give 2 weeks especially since they are now taking a long time to pick him up. I'd just be done with him today!!

Sorry your going through this.
If I didn't have 2 weeks in my contract I would be done today
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:58 PM
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do you have a time limit in our PHB about sick pick up??
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  #31  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:24 PM
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do you have a time limit in our PHB about sick pick up??
Not currently but it is being added for sure.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:27 PM
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now its done on purpose. Goodbye family!!!
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:29 PM
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Just me, since your PHB does not have any rules on a time limit, the parents are not breaking any rule. I would give them the notice and tell them that little johnny has to be free of the diarrhea for 24 hours without the aide of medication or tell them you need a doc note stating what I said before.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:32 PM
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If I didn't have 2 weeks in my contract I would be done today
Gotcha. Did they pick up now?
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:45 PM
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If I didn't have 2 weeks in my contract I would be done today
What do you have in your contract? Mine says that under most circumstances I will give two weeks, but that I reserve the right to terminate without notice.

You should never have to have anyone in your home you would rather not be there.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:57 PM
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Gotcha. Did they pick up now?
They were 1.5 hours late again.

My new PHB says after 45 minutes it is $1.00 a minute
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:59 PM
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What do you have in your contract? Mine says that under most circumstances I will give two weeks, but that I reserve the right to terminate without notice.

You should never have to have anyone in your home you would rather not be there.
I do not have a terminate w/o notice clause. I wish I did.

I posted on my other thread that the dad defriended me on facebook, so he is basically setting the tone.

I wonder if they will bring him the remainder of the 2 weeks? If they do not then I am going to have to figure out how to ask them to pay their balance

This family has made me have to enforce so many rules at once.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:06 PM
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I do not have a terminate w/o notice clause. I wish I did.

I posted on my other thread that the dad defriended me on facebook, so he is basically setting the tone.

I wonder if they will bring him the remainder of the 2 weeks? If they do not then I am going to have to figure out how to ask them to pay their balance

This family has made me have to enforce so many rules at once.
sweetie I know things stink right now with this family, but you need to look at it in a positive light....there are families that are going to be necessary in our lives to teach us things. This family came into your life to teach you something and that is to make sure that you have all of your bases covered in your PHB. They taught you that people will mistaken your niceness as a weakness. They have taught you that if you give speical it will become expected and they will want more. They are helping you to build a stronger policy and backbone. It's ok, let them behave this way. Learn from all of this and move forward without looking back.

YOu have not done anything wrong here at all. If they don't pay you and you really need the money, take them to court. If it were me, I would be asking for hte money once and then letting it go if they did not pay it. No amount of money would keep me tied to that negative family in any way, shape or form.

Be kind and put your best foot forward and let them go. Be prepared to let everything go, including the pay.

You sound like an amazing provider and there is a family out there that will be the right fit for your program and services.... here's to finding them with ease!!!! good luck!!!!
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:12 PM
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Tell them if he still has "loose stools" he can not come back, if they decide not to bring him then say they have the option of not having to pay the last two weeks...i am sure they will oblige. And, really, do you want him back?

Also KEEP TRACK OF ALL CORRESPONDENCE....CYA cover your a $ $
if they do not bring him to the doctor despite you telling them you feel he needs to be checked out, then it is theiR NEGLIGENCE, and get that in writing. Whatever conversations you have had over email or texting, get a paper copy.

I guess this is one of the reasons its best not to mix family, friends and business
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:53 PM
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sweetie I know things stink right now with this family, but you need to look at it in a positive light....there are families that are going to be necessary in our lives to teach us things. This family came into your life to teach you something and that is to make sure that you have all of your bases covered in your PHB. They taught you that people will mistaken your niceness as a weakness. They have taught you that if you give speical it will become expected and they will want more. They are helping you to build a stronger policy and backbone. It's ok, let them behave this way. Learn from all of this and move forward without looking back.

YOu have not done anything wrong here at all. If they don't pay you and you really need the money, take them to court. If it were me, I would be asking for hte money once and then letting it go if they did not pay it. No amount of money would keep me tied to that negative family in any way, shape or form.

Be kind and put your best foot forward and let them go. Be prepared to let everything go, including the pay.

You sound like an amazing provider and there is a family out there that will be the right fit for your program and services.... here's to finding them with ease!!!! good luck!!!!
Thank you! You are right, I did have a crash course in PHB management with this family!

I suppose people come and go in our lives for a reason. I have learned many lessons, and I can really credit some personal growth to the support from you ladies! This is my first forum that I have ever contributed to, and I have learned a ton, from forum "rules and respect" to growing a backbone. I don't always like what I hear sometimes (the truth hurts lol), but I appreciate all of the tough love, advice, opinions, and cheers from everyone!
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