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  #1  
Old 07-08-2010, 02:08 PM
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Default Staying Later Then Scheduled Time

Since this week is a Holiday week and the sibling group I watch was not here on Monday (It is paid) they are going to stay later on Friday. In my handbook it states:

Quote:
EARLY/LATE CHARGES
My time is very valuable to me, as is yours to you and I expect that you follow your schedule, if you are early or late, fees will be charged as follows and will be added to Friday’s payment.

Charges are $5.00 per 15 minutes over your scheduled hours.
They signed the contract that they would leave on Fridays at either 12:00 or 2:00 and they are staying until 4:00 tomorrow.

Should I say something?

They were not here on Monday but are paying me for it.

BTW: I had to ask tonight what time they were picking up and he said 4. Last time they didn't tell me it was 2, when they had been 12 until the mom was walking out the door in the morning and I TOLD her that I needed to know as soon as they did. The dad picks them up...he could tell he right away.

They are the only family I have and I like to make plans for after they leave, while I don't have plans for tomorrow I might have!!
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
Since this week is a Holiday week and the sibling group I watch was not here on Monday (It is paid) they are going to stay later on Friday. In my handbook it states:



They signed the contract that they would leave on Fridays at either 12:00 or 2:00 and they are staying until 4:00 tomorrow.

Should I say something?

They were not here on Monday but are paying me for it.
Yes, you should totally say something! It is akin to their boss saying to them you had Monday off work as a holiday but now you have to go to work for 2-3 hrs on Saturday to make up for it. I would tell them to please refer to their handbook. If they wish to stay longer on Friday they will need to have you approve it & pay an additional fee for the extra time you provide care.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:16 PM
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Yes, you should totally say something! It is akin to their boss saying to them you had Monday off work as a holiday but now you have to go to work for 2-3 hrs on Saturday to make up for it. I would tell them to please refer to their handbook. If they wish to stay longer on Friday they will need to have you approve it & pay an additional fee for the extra time you provide care.
Should I charge them a fee tomorrow? Should I call them tonight to remind them?
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:18 PM
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I wanted to add that I just looked at the papers they signed and I even have it listed right under where they fill in their hours that there is an overtime rate of $5 per family for every 15 mins late.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:32 PM
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If Monday was your paid holiday to have off, and it's listed in your handbook, than so be it. That was your holiday. They shouldn't expect you to make-up time for that. You don't have to. I would be polite and remind them of the paperwork they signed and charge for the additional care.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by janarae View Post
It is akin to their boss saying to them you had Monday off work as a holiday but now you have to go to work for 2-3 hrs on Saturday to make up for it.
This is a great way of putting it. I like this. This is going in my memory bank.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:21 AM
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Well that didn't go well. The mom didn't even know what time the dad was coming. She was like "They'll leave at 2:00 today" And I quested her and she had no idea. Don't they talk at night?

Even though it says 'stick to you scheduled' or you pay overtime, she takes it as meaning anything over any time AFTER I would close for the day.

I told her that I don't have any other kids so when they leave I close.

I do have it wrote that I am open until 5:30. So I told her that was something for me to change later in my handbook.

She was like "Normally sitter charges for when they close, not when the kid leaves. You can't just charge if they come later"


She was not happy about it at all. I was very nice about it and changed the subject about her dog, which we're looking at getting. And left it on a good note.

I feel bad. I don't want to loss them but they are a pain sometimes.
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:45 AM
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I had a similar misunderstanding with a parent a couple of weeks ago. They didn't think they needed to pay for stat holidays -- 8 other families didn't have any issues with the wording of the contract, so I knew it wasn't that hard to figure out. But I thanked them for bringing the "possible ambiguity" of the wording to my attention, and let them know I'd change it to make it more clear. But I still charged them for the stat in question . Just be polite, but stick to your contract. If you let her off the hook this time, she may think you will next time too!
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
Well that didn't go well. The mom didn't even know what time the dad was coming. She was like "They'll leave at 2:00 today" And I quested her and she had no idea. Don't they talk at night?

Even though it says 'stick to you scheduled' or you pay overtime, she takes it as meaning anything over any time AFTER I would close for the day.

I told her that I don't have any other kids so when they leave I close.

I do have it wrote that I am open until 5:30. So I told her that was something for me to change later in my handbook.

She was like "Normally sitter charges for when they close, not when the kid leaves. You can't just charge if they come later"


She was not happy about it at all. I was very nice about it and changed the subject about her dog, which we're looking at getting. And left it on a good note.

I feel bad. I don't want to loss them but they are a pain sometimes.
that's why I don't have open/closed hours anymore. I only do the client's contracted hours. I have a form that is filled in showing the days of the week & the hours the client needs care. Then below that it is written that anything before or after the contracted hours will be charged an extra fee per hour or half hour or whatever. You based your fees on what hours she needed I assume so it is unfair for her to tack on extra hours. I'd strongly encourage you to write up a new contract regarding this client's hours & re-word it so you don't have the open/closing timeframes, just the client's work hours with 1/2 hr tacked on on each end for commute times.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by janarae View Post
that's why I don't have open/closed hours anymore. I only do the client's contracted hours. I have a form that is filled in showing the days of the week & the hours the client needs care. Then below that it is written that anything before or after the contracted hours will be charged an extra fee per hour or half hour or whatever. You based your fees on what hours she needed I assume so it is unfair for her to tack on extra hours. I'd strongly encourage you to write up a new contract regarding this client's hours & re-word it so you don't have the open/closing timeframes, just the client's work hours with 1/2 hr tacked on on each end for commute times.
I have heard this suggested many times on this board and it is some of the best advice I have received. Otherwise you will undoubtedly get those parents who will want to drop their kids off the minute you open and not pick up until the minute you close. I was lucky enough to be able to make this change to my contract before I ran into an issue with a parent.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:17 AM
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Even though it says 'stick to you scheduled' or you pay overtime
This is pretty clear and I would think it would hold up in court. "Stick to your schedule" is not really that ambiguous. It specifically says "YOUR SCHEDULE" not the "daycare hours". I could always be wrong. But I think she is just trying to create an ambiguity where none exists. I have had clients try this with me. It's an attempt to coerce you into letting them take advantage of you. If you let them, even once, they will expect it from then on. This is not just DC parents, but ANYONE. When people find out they can get away with something, they often consider it an open invitation to break (or bend) the rules.

Also, if YOU don't put your foot down, who will? You are the owner, director, CEO, CFO, President, secretary, bookkeeper, etc. You don't have a superior to go to bat for you. It's one of the things that stinks about owning your own business - you have to be the "enforcer" of the contract, policies, and procedures.

Good luck!
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:31 AM
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Had Monday not been a stat. holiday (or in lieu of one) I'd have said don't charge her for the extra 2 hours on Friday. But, because Monday was in lieu of July 4th, then yes, you should charge for the extra two hours.

Personally, I tend to be quite flexible with my families BUT they are equally flexible with me. I kept a client's two kids late last night and didn't charge her but she stopped on her way home from work and picked up some toys I bought on an online classified ad. She did me a favour so I did her one but she did offer me the correct amount of money for keeping her kids the extra time when she picked them up and I turned it down. The offer of payment is just as important as the flexibility. However, I have fantastic clients who genuinely appreciate me and the job I do. If I had a less than stellar client (and I have had several in the past) I would not be willing to be so flexible and trade favours. It all depends on the clients and my relationship with them.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:45 AM
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Had Monday not been a stat. holiday (or in lieu of one) I'd have said don't charge her for the extra 2 hours on Friday. But, because Monday was in lieu of July 4th, then yes, you should charge for the extra two hours.

Personally, I tend to be quite flexible with my families BUT they are equally flexible with me. I kept a client's two kids late last night and didn't charge her but she stopped on her way home from work and picked up some toys I bought on an online classified ad. She did me a favour so I did her one but she did offer me the correct amount of money for keeping her kids the extra time when she picked them up and I turned it down. The offer of payment is just as important as the flexibility. However, I have fantastic clients who genuinely appreciate me and the job I do. If I had a less than stellar client (and I have had several in the past) I would not be willing to be so flexible and trade favours. It all depends on the clients and my relationship with them.
I too have a family that has been too awesome for words. Both DCM & DCD work at the same steakhouse as managers. They have brought us food and refused payment because they don't have to pay for it. They brought me fillet Mignon, for Pete's sake. Plus, the DCM sometimes calls when she's on her way just to ask if there's anything that I'm craving (I'm pregnant) that she could pick up for me. So, I tend to give them breaks on dropping of a few minutes early or picking up a few minutes late. I figure it all evens out in the end. Then my new family (this is their 4th day), the grandparents brought over 2 riding toys to donate to my daycare. How sweet is that? Will I be more flexible when needed - yes, unless it becomes a problem.

YOU HAVE TO LOVE THE GOLDEN CLIENTS!!! They make the real "tools" more bearable.
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  #14  
Old 07-09-2010, 09:04 AM
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Okay, I know that lots of providers don't have their business hours in their contracts or policies but I had a situation where when I didn't have them printed and only went by "scheduled hours" a family wanted to change their pick up from 4pm to 7pm (dad worked nights & evenings and mom had a schedule change). When I told them that I don't watch children past 6pm they gave me a hard time about it by saying that it didn't say anywhere in the paper work that I don't watch kids earlier or later than a specific time. I stuck to my guns (I mean c'mon, they gave her the option to work a little later and didn't think to run it by me first to see if it was possible BEFORE agreeing to it??) and immediately changed my handbook and contract to say this:

Daycare Hours
Our regular hours are Monday through Friday 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. These hours are not necessarily the hours that you are allotted to bring your child. Hours for care will be discussed and a schedule will be set which includes a fair amount of commuting time and this will become your “scheduled hours”. Care will be provided for your child only during these contracted hours. Any changes made to your schedule hours must be discussed and re-assessed based on the ability for the childcare provider to meet your new needs.

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Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
She was like "Normally sitter charges for when they close, not when the kid leaves. You can't just charge if they come later"
First of all, when you read your contract it does say this. I think it's is very clear so don't let her mess with it. If they get picked up later, they pay more. It says it and they signed it. End of story.

Second and totally off of the subject and random. Am I the only one that gets irritated when I am referred to as a "sitter" or "babysitter"? One of my DC littles was playing pretend that she was a babysitter "Look Vanessa, I'm a babysitter like you!" and I smiled of course, but I couldn't help but correct her "I'm not a babysitter silly, I'm a childcare provider" and then we went into what the differences between the two are lol. I'm sorry, I just can't help it. I read a great passage somewhere and included that in my policy book also. It reads like this:

"One of the important elements in home childcare is mutual respect between the parent and the provider. We both have a great responsibility for the health, care and the teaching of your child. You of course are the primary nurturer for your child but during the times your child is in my care I will love, nurture and protect your child. Therefore it is only reasonable that you respect me as more than just a “babysitter”. If you promise not to refer to me as a babysitter I promise not to sit on your baby."
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:44 AM
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Will I be more flexible when needed - yes, unless it becomes a problem.
This is exactly my thought. I know that not all provider/client relationships allow for the give and take and I never want to see a provider being taken advantage of, taken for granted or getting screwed over. I absolutely support standing up for yourself and sticking to policies. But, when possible with golden clients, if there's some fair give and take, even better.

Oh, and I'm now craving a steak
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:56 AM
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Second and totally off of the subject and random. Am I the only one that gets irritated when I am referred to as a "sitter" or "babysitter"? One of my DC littles was playing pretend that she was a babysitter "Look Vanessa, I'm a babysitter like you!" and I smiled of course, but I couldn't help but correct her "I'm not a babysitter silly, I'm a childcare provider" and then we went into what the differences between the two are lol. I'm sorry, I just can't help it. I read a great passage somewhere and included that in my policy book also. It reads like this:

"One of the important elements in home childcare is mutual respect between the parent and the provider. We both have a great responsibility for the health, care and the teaching of your child. You of course are the primary nurturer for your child but during the times your child is in my care I will love, nurture and protect your child. Therefore it is only reasonable that you respect me as more than just a “babysitter”. If you promise not to refer to me as a babysitter I promise not to sit on your baby."
First, YES, it does bother me to be called a sitter or babysitter. ANYONE can be a babysitter. That's what you call the teenager from across the street that comes over for 2-4 hours on a Friday evening. She has no experience, no training, no agency inspecting her, often no CPR or First Aid certification, etc. I am an educated, trained, very experienced PROFESSIONAL. I don't just sit there and keep the kids alive. I work with them, teach them, guide them, direct them, plan and serve nutritious meals based on the training I have received in childhood nutritional needs, etc. There is a BIG difference.

I equally dislike being treated like THEIR child is the only child I have, that THEY are my bosses and will dictate how care is given (requests are appreciated, but not orders), and that they are to be given special treatment over the other children (including my own!). That would describe a NANNY.

As for the bolded part - that HAS to be the quote of the day! I laughed out loud and my DC kids who are trying to go to sleep heard me! Plus, I almost peed my pants (but, that's not hard to do since I'm pregnant). I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that quote. May I steal it?
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:00 AM
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I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that quote. May I steal it?
By all means, it's not my quote anyway. I read it somewhere and I stole it also. It has got to be one of the greatest things I had ever heard.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:21 AM
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Thanks Marinavanessa,.. =-) I wrote it about 14 years ago.
still to this day when someone calls for information they say,.. Im calling about babysitting,.. I answer with, Oh Im not a baby sitter, Im a childcare provider, I stopped sitting on them when I was 4.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:27 AM
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Thanks Marinavanessa,.. =-) I wrote it about 14 years ago.
still to this day when someone calls for information they say,.. Im calling about babysitting,.. I answer with, Oh Im not a baby sitter, Im a childcare provider, I stopped sitting on them when I was 4.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:50 PM
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Thanks Marinavanessa,.. =-) I wrote it about 14 years ago.
still to this day when someone calls for information they say,.. Im calling about babysitting,.. I answer with, Oh Im not a baby sitter, Im a childcare provider, I stopped sitting on them when I was 4.
Lol, I love it. I think I found it when I was googling around for ideas on a parent handbook. It was probably from your contract or handbook if you have it posted online. Thanks for letting me steal it lol.
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Old 07-10-2010, 02:03 PM
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that's why I don't have open/closed hours anymore. I only do the client's contracted hours. I have a form that is filled in showing the days of the week & the hours the client needs care. Then below that it is written that anything before or after the contracted hours will be charged an extra fee per hour or half hour or whatever. You based your fees on what hours she needed I assume so it is unfair for her to tack on extra hours. I'd strongly encourage you to write up a new contract regarding this client's hours & re-word it so you don't have the open/closing timeframes, just the client's work hours with 1/2 hr tacked on on each end for commute times.
I totally agree, I had to change mine about 4 yrs. ago, due to everyone abusing the hrs. drop off and pick up times, then it made me open 1- 1 1/2 hrs. more than my hrs. I was so tired of everyone either dropping off early or picking up late!! One parent sees the other child still here, then they come later, then one sees someone drop off earlier, so then everyone thought I was a 24 hr. Walmart, which totally sucked for us!!! We weren't on time to important things, senior things, ballgames,dinners, parties, practices, swimming lessons,girl scouts, the list goes on and on..... It sucked!!! I would suggest everyone adopt this- work and commute times only!!!! Anything over this will be considered OT, and make your rate- I have $5.00 PER 15 MIN.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:11 PM
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Anything over this will be considered OT, and make your rate- I have $5.00 PER 15 MIN.
I have $5 for every 10 minutes or part thereof.

That's a good phrase to add "or part thereof". It means 1-10 min late = $5. 11-20 minutes late = $10. And so on. Otherwise, they will push it and say, "well, I was only 9 minutes late and your contract says PER 10 MIN and I wasn't 10 minutes late. So you can't charge UNTIL I'm 10 minutes late." Trust me, some people know how to twist and turn every little thing around and make it seem vague and open to interpretation.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:52 PM
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I have $5 for every 10 minutes or part thereof.

That's a good phrase to add "or part thereof". It means 1-10 min late = $5. 11-20 minutes late = $10. And so on. Otherwise, they will push it and say, "well, I was only 9 minutes late and your contract says PER 10 MIN and I wasn't 10 minutes late. So you can't charge UNTIL I'm 10 minutes late." Trust me, some people know how to twist and turn every little thing around and make it seem vague and open to interpretation.

That is a good phrase to add! I'm gonna add it to my contract also.
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:50 AM
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I also have contracted hours 1 parent drops off at 7:30 and picks up at 5:30 and the other parent drops off at 8am and picks up at 5:30pm I would never open earlier then 7am and close later then 5:30pm if someone asked me to close later or stay open later they would be told to find another daycare as I have a family too.
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:40 AM
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Can someone help me with contracted hours? I have several families who have kids from split families, alternating homes, parents have have different work schedules...one mom has two different jobs with varying daily hours, the dad is a farmer and his hours vary, another family has a mom that her job location changes daily as does commute time....am I out of luck on contracted hours then?
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:32 AM
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Not sure about many of them, but for the mom who has a different commute time, you can see how long it takes her to get to/from her farthest job and add that amount to the hours of care for her contracted hours.

For the split families, I'm assuming you mean there are different kids that come different days/times? On my contract I have a different section for each child in the family and have each child's contracted hours depending on their need.

Hopefully someone else can help you with the other ones.
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:35 AM
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thank you....the split families...sorry...parents are split and spend some days with mom, some with dad and they both have funky work schedules...and one parent pays one week, the other the next. it gets totally confusing :-(
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:42 AM
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I suppose I would just give them a range, from the earliest drop off time to the latest pick up time, and that would be their hours. I don't do contracted hours, I'm just open 7 a.m. to 5 p.m., and my families have always been really good at sticking to their work hours for the most part, anyway. Sorry, I'm not much help, am I?
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:43 AM
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Default Wording is very important

What worked for me was changing the wording in my contract and instead of having set hours that I offer, I have the parents set contracted hours. I have them provide arrival and departure times for each day of the week and I tell them to make sure that they factor in driving time.
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Old 11-30-2010, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
Second and totally off of the subject and random. Am I the only one that gets irritated when I am referred to as a "sitter" or "babysitter"?
Nope it doesn't bother me at all. All my parents call me the babysitter.
I am a babysitter. I've never had aspirations of being a professional childcare provider. I've built my business on babysitting.

It's simple and I like simple.
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:13 PM
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I have $5 for every 10 minutes or part thereof.

That's a good phrase to add "or part thereof". It means 1-10 min late = $5. 11-20 minutes late = $10. And so on. Otherwise, they will push it and say, "well, I was only 9 minutes late and your contract says PER 10 MIN and I wasn't 10 minutes late. So you can't charge UNTIL I'm 10 minutes late." Trust me, some people know how to twist and turn every little thing around and make it seem vague and open to interpretation.
Love it! I will have to add this. Do you keep the examples in the handbook or contract? I suppose if you didn't have the examples stated then someone would say they were two minutes late so they only owed you $1 from the $5 10 minutes late fee....meaning a fraction thereof. LOL


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Originally Posted by MARSTELAC View Post
Can someone help me with contracted hours? I have several families who have kids from split families, alternating homes, parents have have different work schedules...one mom has two different jobs with varying daily hours, the dad is a farmer and his hours vary, another family has a mom that her job location changes daily as does commute time....am I out of luck on contracted hours then?
For your split families you could do this two ways: ONE, tell each parent they need to sign their own individual contract because they are the one requesting care for those days for each child. They need to be held responsible directly with you, not through the other parent. Especially if one pays one week and the other the other week. Who says that the dad sticks with you for the week he has the kids for whatever reasons and mom decides that she found her relative or someone else to care for her child(ren) on her weeks....you really should have two separate contracts. It might sound confusing at first, but it will make sense. Treat each parent as a separate client. OR TWO, you can request the parents work together and have the same person pay you each week. I will just become sticky when you have each parent picking up and dropping off at different times. I would still recommend your individual contracts and treat them as separate clients having each pay part time rates unless they are on the same page and one parent pays for the weird hours. The only difference I guess is if the hours each week change.

For the parent with two different jobs with varying day hours: just have her contract state her specific hours on each day of the week. Mon, Wed, Fri might be the same hours and Tues, Thurs might be the same. If she does week one and week two schedules, type up the same thing that these hours rotate on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. If you already know the hours, it will definitely help you create customized contracts per each client you already have.

It seems like you have many unusual hours. If you let me know what hours each family has, I could help you some more. Just break it down per client. Sure, you have a dad who is a farmer and a mom who works different jobs and families who are split, but you run your own business and say "Hey, these are your contracted hours." If they need care later or other times they can find a babysitter or family member to watch them or you can increase your "outside of contracted hours" rate
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARSTELAC View Post
Can someone help me with contracted hours? I have several families who have kids from split families, alternating homes, parents have have different work schedules...one mom has two different jobs with varying daily hours, the dad is a farmer and his hours vary, another family has a mom that her job location changes daily as does commute time....am I out of luck on contracted hours then?
I agree that if payment is alternated by each parent then you should have them each be contracted. I would add somewhere in there that "parent A" will be responsible for "payment every other week starting with the week of ___." Or something like that and then request that any changes (like parents switching weeks) be given to you in writing.

As for how to word a family with changing schedules, different work days etc. you could add to your contract that you only provide childcare for working/school hours and transportation time and/or request what the following weeks' schedule will be by the closing time on the last day of pick-up the previous week etc.

I have had DC parent's with retail and restaurant schedules before and their schedules would always be different week to week but they would get their work schedule 2 weeks in advance so I added in their contracts that they were required to give me their work schedules 2 weeks in advance. As soon as they got their schedules they would either call me or write it down and leave it for me. This now works for my DCM that works as a contractor but I changed it for her since she doesn't know that much in advance what her work schedule will be. She gives me her work schedule at pick-up on Fridays for the following week. She's still contracted for full-time, never stays over 10 hours a day or 50 hours a week etc. however she does pay a little extra to be able to have this "open" schedule.
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